Rod Liddle

I’m utterly sickened by this story of a man trying to talk to a woman on a train

In fact I am so upset I may have to break off writing to vomit again

29 August 2015

9:00 AM

29 August 2015

9:00 AM

What can we as a society do about the relentless harassment of women by terrifying men? Menacing men, threatening men, priapic men. Something must be done — and quickly. I reached this conclusion after reading a deeply distressing article by the Guardian columnist Daisy Buchanan, who announced that she has imposed a curfew on herself after a series of deeply unpleasant incursions by bestial males. ‘I can’t believe women have to live like this in 2015,’ Ms Buchanan lamented, having revealed that she has also given up dancing in case the same sort of thing happens when she is on the way home from wherever it is she dances.

I am going to repeat the full details of the assaults made on this youngish woman — not for gratuitous reasons, but because I think people need to know; they need to be shocked out of their complacency, they need to face up to the enormity of the problem, no matter how traumatising that might be.

The latest incident happened when Daisy was on her way to her yoga class. A man outside the studio said to her, ‘Hello — I keep seeing you around! What’s your name?’ Yes, I know. It beggars belief that this sort of thing can still happen in this day and age. Luckily, on this occasion Daisy had her wits about her and mumbled an answer so that the man left not knowing for certain that she was called ‘Daisy’. But she was clearly numb with fright.

Worse, though, are the bastards on trains. No sooner had Daisy sunk into the seat and taken out her paperback than she felt a tap on her shoulder and a male voice saying: ‘Hello! What are you reading, then?’


I felt physically sick when I read about this transgression and I have had to break off from writing this article to vomit again. Just writing down the words upsets me more than I can adequately express. What is it about quiet coaches and station buffets that attracts perverts, Daisy asks? Well, indeed. Mercifully she didn’t tell us what horrible stuff occurred in the buffet; it is entirely possible that some menacing pig asked her for the correct time or perhaps inquired as to whether or not the 8.22 to Surbiton had already departed. The truth is we don’t know; Daisy may be holding back because she finds relating the encounter too distressing.

The appropriate response to the man on the train, of course, would have been to stab him several times in the windpipe with a knitting needle and then stand over his lifeless body saying: ‘It’s The Writing on the Wall: Why We Must Embrace China as a Partner Or Face It as an Enemy. By Will Hutton. Published by Little, Brown. 441 pages. Satisfied, you sexist piece of filth?’ However, Daisy did not have a knitting needle with her at the time. And why should she? Not all of them knit, you know. Indeed, these days, very few women knit. If you think they all knit, you are living in the wrong century.

Daisy also related a third incident, when a mentally ill man actually touched her elbow and may have had his other hand inside his trousers. Some other men nearby pointed out that the bloke was a nutter and not to worry too much. But she was still traumatised. This incident happened when Daisy was at university in York — some ten years ago at least, by my reckoning, seeing as she is now nearly 30. But these ordeals do not diminish with time, do they? It is a mercy that she was not so psychologically scarred as to contemplate amputating the arm touched by this madman, to rid herself of the appalling memory. As it is, she is simply a survivor, a survivor of vile abuse.

The more I think about it, the more I believe that the most loathsome transgression was the man on the train — and perhaps some of those who commented on Daisy’s article by suggesting that we should have segregated train carriages, like in a very Islamic state, were absolutely correct (and yes, Jeremy Corbyn is fully behind the idea). As were the comments suggesting that all men should be sent on courses so that henceforth they would not behave like potential rapists while on a train. Most of the other comments, incidentally, had been deleted by the Guardian for failing to ‘abide by our community standards’. I fear mine was one of those deleted, although I am not sure which of the following words in my response — narcissistic, histrionic, deluded, stupid or cow — transgressed the newspaper’s ‘community standards’. Perhaps all of them, although maybe especially ‘cow’. I think that to abide by the Guardian’s community standards, you have to agree with whatever the Guardian says.

We are deep in Lord Rennard territory here. You may remember that the Liberal Democrat peer was subjected to an investigation by his party for having, on at least one occasion, asked a female colleague if she would like a cup of coffee. The female colleague did not want a bloody cup of coffee, thank you very much. Asking a woman if she would like a cup of coffee, or asking them what book they are reading, is a precursor to rape, of course. Never ask a woman if she would like a cup of coffee, not even if you are both sitting in a coffee shop. It is presumptuous and you are plainly abusing your hegemonic power as a man.

Unless you are not a man, of course. Then you can ask a woman if she wants a cup of coffee and you can probably ask her what book she’s reading and what her name is. Hell, I could trace how the bien-pensant middle-class liberal feminist left arrived at Daisy Buchanan’s point of view — because it is a not uncommon point of view — but I fear that the will to live would desert me halfway through.

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Show comments
  • Sean Grainger

    Indeed, two girls having a non-stop gossip about make-up ruined a recent trip to Nottingham.

  • Jack_H

    Perhaps Daisy would like to write an article about children in care in Rotherham and being repeadedly gang raped by groups of Asian men before she turned 14,lots to interview,about 1400………and being ignored by the authorities when she sought help because these authorities are terrified of being called racist by the Dasies of this world.

    • Shorne

      When UKIP were constantly bringing up the events in Rotherham one of the victims said this;
      “People shouldn’t be making such comments and using it to get themselves into high positions. That’s very disrespectful to us victims.”
      Not that that will stop trolls like you mentioning it whenever you can. Ever mention that the lawyer who led the Prosecution of the rapists and secured the convictions was a Muslim of Pakistani descent do you? No doubt you are also aware of the paedophile gang of white men and women in Norwich who operated for 10 years?

      • Jack_H

        What point are you making?I have pointed out what took place in Rotherham…….also Rochdale and numerous other northern cities.It was well known and the authorities failed to act….this is because they were afraid of being branded ‘Racist’ by the likes of Daisy,the poor poppet who feel she has been tread so badly.The prosecutor was of Pakistani origin because their white colleagues at the DPC were terrified of being branded racist.I shall write about these events whenever I see articles by Daisy and her ilk and the shocking political establishment that turned its back on the most vulnerable in society.If you are offended I am glad….doubtless you excuse and ignore this appalling behaviour because you are so ‘tolerant’……..Good For You.

        • Shorne

          Right then, I was a Probation Officer for 30 years including 13 working full time in a prison with an office on a Wing where the sex offenders were held. I have lost count of the number of sex offenders I have interviewed for risk assessments and Parole Reports, I know more about this subject than you. At least 80% of child sex offenders are white males and gangs like the ones in Rotherham and Norwich, the latter of course you totally ignore, are uncommon. Your motive for bringing up the subject of Rotherham in classic trolling fashion and ignoring its white equivalent is because you are a racist, I have no hesitation in describing you thus because looking at your comment history you don’t hesitate to label other people in this way. If you really cared about the girls in these cases you could donate to appropriate charities. However you don’t care and being a right winger you are in a group least likely to donate to charity.

          • Jack_H

            Apart from Pakistani men there is one other group that stands out in sex grooming pedophile activity……….they have stood out in every study for 40 years,can you name them?…….A probation officer of 30 years experience could.

            What comments have I labeled people?I think you are the troll……..dreary little Guardianista frothing in worthy self righteousness.

            I happen to have had firsthand experience of a similar grooming case that took place in Lincolnshire in 2007…….a 14 year old girl was raped by men involved in a takeaway business……the perpetrators were never caught and the investigating officer said afterwards that these types of crimes were increasing at an alarming rate and almost always the same modus operandi Take aways,Mini Cabs,Muslim Men and vulnerable underage girls….but you would know all of this being a probation officer.

            My views are neither left wing or right wing….I think only very boring people use those labels now as they no longer have any meaning.

            So come on then,what’s the other group?……I’ll give you a clue……..it’s not catholic priests.

          • Shorne

            You are quite right about the preponderance of Taxi Drivers and other members of the so-called night time economy in these offences and the way the Police (predominantly) and Social Workers behaved was inexcusable. I suspect this is the first time you have mentioned ‘white perverts’ however.
            As for your question about the other group that’s simple, children are most likely to be groomed and abused by members of their own families or friends of their families.80% of abused children know their abuser. (Source; The Lucy Faithfull Foundation. )

          • Jack_H

            Go and troll someone else Shone/Planet vague…….you are boring me now.

          • Shorne

            Well that’s par for the course, reactionary faced with facts resorts to ad hominem attacks.

          • Jack_H

            Actually Shone,the reason, as I pointed out to you when you posted under your Planet Vague moniker.If you were a probation officer as you claimed you would know the most likely offender in these grooming/pedophile crimes after someone of Pakistani decent is a male swimming coach…….which anyone who has studied or dealt with sex offenders knows.

            You have to resort to lying as your arguments are so weak and pathetic.

          • Shorne

            If you are implying that I post under another name you are wrong, Shorne is a village in Kent by the way. Certainly number of male swimming coaches have been convicted of these offences, I never encountered one in 30 years but that’s not important. However such offenders fit easily into the category of someone known to the victim that, as I said, comprise 80% of all perpetrators. You seem to think that the biggest group is people of Pakistani descent, that’s wrong, it’s white males.

          • Jack_H

            The very nature of grooming requires the attacker too be known to the victim….You clearly have no experience of the criminal justice system that is why you had to lie to try and support your pathetic arguments.

            I have never said the majority of sexual offences are committed by Pakistanis just that they are much more likely to commit the offences than the general population ….and the statistics support this…….coupled with the authorities reluctance to act(Because people like you call them racist)I would say there is a problem not being addressed and as the victims of this crime are among the poorest and most disadvantaged I have a problem with this.

            You did nothing but throw abuse at me and concoct this ridiculous tale of being a probation officer…..So shone you got question one wrong so how about this;

            Category A prisoners are the most disruptive and dangerous,segregated from the general population as they are usually violent.What is the two word phrase Prison Officers use to call them?If you don’t know this you have never set foot in a prison.

          • Jack_H

            Ha ha ha Shone……..no reply to that one?Google it all you want but it’s mildly offensive so it won’t find its way into a public forum…….but if you spent any time around prison officers you would be very familiar with it.

          • Shorne

            This is getting rather interesting, you display the classic symptoms of ‘Right Man Syndrome’ so as you think it is impossible for you to be wrong I have to be lying. Never mind you have to avoid cognitive dissonance the best way you can, I learned about that when I trained as an ETS Tutor (with which of course you are totally familiar). I will repeat that I was a Probation Officer, I was on the last intake at Rainer House (of course you know about that too) as a matter of fact and for the first 8 years I was also a FCWO until CAFCASS was set up.I finished my career as a Seconded Officer in a Cat. B Local but if you choose not to believe me that’s your privilege, I couldn’t actually give a damn, I’m happy with my nice little Public Sector pension.
            The actual definition of Cat. A prisoners is “Those whose escape would be highly dangerous to the public or national security.”
            Certainly some would be violent but some, such as those convicted under the Official Secrets Act, usually aren’t. I found one could even have a civilised conversation with terrorists, we used to get a few transferred in pending appearances in the Court of Appeal (there’s a clue there by the way). They were not all segregated, one was located two doors down from the converted cell that was my office.
            There are only 60 Cat A Prisoners in CSC’s, I never worked in one so I would be interested in hearing this slang expression of yours then I’ll check it with one of my Uniformed ex-colleagues with whom I’m still in touch.

          • Jack_H

            It’s not that interesting but lets start at the beginning.
            Your first comment was made to establish your moral superiority to me by calling me a racist and to establish your greater knowledge by you probation officer claim.You misrepresented what I had said as several other people have commented.

            You appear to enjoy phycology but you were not schooled in criminal phycology otherwise you would have got the male swimming coach right…….if you didn’t know you would know where to find it.

            You then have attempted what I believe is called ‘The Roman Bluff’to try and get me to reveal the term for Cat A prisoners.

            Also you have played the game of accusing me of mental illness….cant remember the term for it….but it was most widely practised in the Soviet Union in the 60s and 70s where dissenters were diagnosed with mental illness for daring to complain about the shortcomings in the system……….But they weren’t mad Shone….they were right.

            How’s that?Was I warm?

          • Shorne

            Cognitive dissonance isn’t a mental illness it is the stress that arises when a person is confronted by new information that conflicts with existing beliefs, ideas, or values. In your case it is compounded by your exhibiting the Right Man syndrome. There are a number of swimming coaches who are sex offenders, especially in America, but there are are outnumbered by by other categories like adolescents and family members. If you are pinning your hopes on my knowledge or otherwise of a single slang term which I may not know but then again I could list scores of such terms of which you are ignorant as with my references to my training etc but I don’t see why I should come down to your level.
            Two questions though why ‘Shone’ and what do/did you do for a living?

          • Jack_H

            I don’t have to answer any of your questions as I have made no claims I have to substantiate.

            Family members and friend don’t form a group….male swimming coaches do and until recently they were the most likely offender.

            A stranger is a person whose existence you are unaware of a person who you have had contact with on the internet is not a ‘stranger’you are aware of their existence and you have a relationship with them..

          • Shorne

            You have claimed I was a liar, but then you have to because the alternative is you are wrong. Teachers and Social Workers and Carers are more likely to be abusers.
            Stranger
            ‘A person who is not a member of the family,group,
            community, or the like, as a visitor or guest’

          • Jack_H

            No you have claimed superior knowledge to mine but when tested it wasn’t….why should I have knowledge of slang prison terms?……I have never claimed to have worked in a prison…..you claim you spent 13 years doing it.You have said that I claim the majority of sex offenders are Pakistani……I have made no such claim.You have called me racist…..my partner(with whom I have a daughter) is of Chinese extraction.

            Rod Liddle has written an article lampooning a Guardian journalist.A very poor article bemoaning the daily sexual harassment she has suffered…..I just pointed out that appalling sex crimes were committed in Rotherham and other towns and the authorities failed to act.They did this because they feared being called Racist by people like that journalist and you.

            An example of the crimes and one that is highlighted in the third Rotherham enquiry is this:3 men took an 11 year old girl to an abandoned house,the poured alcohol into her and had sex with her…..police on arriving at the scene after complaints of a disturbance arrested the naked girl,clearly distressed and showing signs of sexual activity for being drunk and disorderly.The men were not detained.Although at least one was well known to the officers who attended the scene.

            The Reason the Authorities gave for their inaction was that the girl was a prostitute and the entire ordeal was her fault and the men were blameless…..11 years old and in care………think about that Shone,think long and hard.Sexual activity so appalling that even searching for images of it online is a serious crime that can result in a custodial sentence and being placed on the sex offenders register…..justified by the very agencies legally charged with stopping it.Rotherham is not a third world hell hole its an City in England an hour and a half away by train from the offices where Daisey works.Satisfied now?

          • Shorne

            I fail to see why you think I should be satisfied in someway, I totally agree that the behaviour of the Police and Social Workers was appalling. I’m not usually bothered by the blustering of people like you but don’t you bl**dy dare imply I need to think about this sort of thing, I’ve done more to keep sex offenders off the streets than you ever will.

          • Jack_H

            What by trolling people on the Internet and calling them racist?I think you have made yourself look a fool and your ‘parlour game’psychology was pathetic.

          • Shorne

            You clearly know nothing about the criminal justice system, you are clinging pathetically to a claim to know one single slang expression. When I point out your mistakes, as with the definition of Cat. A Prisoners, you fail to respond. Your original post was classic trolling by being off topic. As you have no effective response to my knowledge of psychology you seek to trivialise it. You also ignored the clues I gave you to my career and training.Then you deny racism by alluding to the alleged ethnicity of your partner. You insist that I am someone who I am not. I have no problem with a degree of self-disclosure, you have. You are as I surmised a classic example of Right Man Syndrome. The only thing that really annoys me is that I have bothered to try and debate with you. I should have remembered Mark Twain’s line
            ‘Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.’

          • Jack_H

            You have displayed ‘Arrogant buffoon’syndrome,the absurdity of your posts has been pointed out by a few others…….you of course didn’t respond to those as they had pointed out that it was your point of view that was racist and hypocriticle.

            So I hope you have learned your lesson now and will go and troll someone else.

          • Philsopinion

            Well, “80”% of offenders would be white given that 87% of the population are white. Asians meanwhile constitute 8% of the population yet manage to commit 33% of the sexual offences.

            No cultural problem there at all.

          • LordJustin

            All of which is completely irrelevant, because there is no reluctance to prosecute the white perverts by Labour controlled administrations. What is being sought is colour blind, apolitical administration of justice. Do you have a problem with that?

      • Blazeaway

        It has been made clear in two inquiries that the police and council refused to get involved because they feared being called racist.

        It is you, Shorne, who are racist. You do not hold the perpetrators to the same standard as other men would be held.

        You are a disgrace for trying to divert attention and trying to smear Jack H in this way.

    • Planet Vague

      Oh FFS, every week you are told how dirty white men abuse their victims. Jim Savile, Ray Teret, Rolf Harris, Cyril Smith, Max Clifford, Leon Brittan, Ted Heath and on and on. Those are just the figures of public interest.

      You do realise you are being educated until you shut up dishing up your tired race bilge?

      • Jack_H

        Thats a funny thing to point out PV,you have raised a very interesting point….there has been almost unlimited funds to investigate these cases you highlight……..no stone unturned even when the perpetrators are dead and no conviction would be possible yet the police have investigated exhaustively……making pleas for information on TV and in the newspapers…..yet in these grooming cases the authorities refused to acknowledge let alone investigate until the scale and scope of these cases could no longer be denied.

        Does that answer you Shone/Plannet Vague?

        PS still no answer to my Question………can’t take you that long to Google it

        • Planet Vague

          Asians – not googling that – all I’d get is little Thai girlies for white man pleasure – d’oh d’oh d’oh FFS!

          • Jack_H

            That’s right Shone,make a joke of it cause you’ve been caught out.

          • Planet Vague

            See, you don’t get it.

          • Jack_H

            Well actually if you were the probation officer you claimed under your Shone moniker you would know that male swimming coaches are the most frequent offenders…..but you don’t know that cause you don’t know much.

            ~Happy Trolling

          • irina palm

            Bertie agrees with you, handjobber.

          • This is exactly the attitude of apologists for Mohammed-emulating packs of Paki rape gangs destroying thousands of young white girls. Laugh it off love!

            Yes Planet Vague, laugh while you still can. They can’t, because they’ve been emotionally, mentally and physically destroyed, and I’m not laughing either.

            It’s not just orangutangs like you that like to make light of jihad rape; some gender traitor called Zoe Williams put the quisling point of view over perfectly in this piece for Al Gruniad:

            http://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/aug/29/saturday-sketch-rotherham-edl

      • WhiteVanMan

        Leon Brittan and Ted Heath are dead so it’s ok to libel them, how about Jesus and hitler they’re not around to sue ,you could say they were at it too.

      • Rob74Eroticus

        When did pointing out facts become racist PV?

    • Paul B

      If you interview 1400 men, anywhere, abusers of the young will be discovered. I do not make light of the Rotherham issue in any way, but wherever we look we find child abuse. We chose not to look at Asian men in Rotherham for own screwed up reasons, and when we looked, what did we find? The question I have for you is this: Why are some of us so keen to find sexual abusers among Asian men? This is just as valid a question as why were Asian men ignored by some. Wherever we look we find the abuse: Why are some so keen to find the abuse from Asian men? Essentially, I think, some of us are much more concerned as to the interracial nature of this than some of us are to the issue of child abuse itself. Because if you were to look at 1400 non-Asian men there we would find child abuse too. There is no clamouring for child abuse to be properly addressed but rather for Asians to be demonised. At least from some of us.

      • Jack_H

        But they didn’t look Paul,thats the point.They looked away and the Children suffered horrific abuse.

        1400 is not men to interview it is the conservative estimate of the number of victims of the abuse.

        As the enquiry showed,the police and social services wouldn’t take action because they feared being branded’Racist’That was the finding of the 3 inquiries…….the first 2 were ignored the final one had too much publicity to ignore.

        • Paul B

          Any child abuse is, to put it mildly, bad. I make these points.

          (1) There is the error of many being too sensitive to the accusation of racial prejudice to properly investigate (or even report) some cases in Rotherham.

          (2) There is the error of a far too keen anti-Asian racially prejudiced response to these cases of abuse. The EDL and BNP are by far the loudest protestors. I suggest that it is the interracial nature of this abuse which is getting them (and many of the rest of us) riled. It is more the idea of brown in pink that provokes than does the actual age of the pinks.

          (3) Child abuse is prevalent. Wherever one looks one finds it. If the police interview 1400 vulnerable youngsters anywhere in the country, whether there be an Asian presence in the neighbourhood or not, they will find abuse.

          (4) By and large, despite the known prevalence of child abuse, it is not reported or investigated. The police, short of resources, cherry pick areas to investigate. Right now it’s Rotherham’s Asian taxi drivers and retired BBC presenters and the staff of child refuges in North Wales. Each of these areas of focus are led by public opinion.

          (5) Where we choose to look for child abuse says a lot about us. This is not an Asian problem, disproportionately. For example family life in Asian families has *less* violence because far less alcohol is drunk. Why do we focus on Asians? For the reason I make plain, above.

          (No, your statistic is widely misused, 1400 is the estimate of vulnerable youngsters in Rotherham, not the estimate of actual victims. 1400 have not been “raped”, 1400 will be interviewed.)

          • Jack_H

            1400 is the conservative estimate of the numbers of victims in Rotherham…..as laid out clearly by the report.For the rest I suggest you read my replies to Shorne

          • Paul B

            You may quote from the report. 1400 is not the “conservative estimate of the numbers of victims in Rotherham”.

  • Roger Bodey

    Perhaps the hijab is a good idea after all.

    • The Bogle

      Or the full burqua?

  • The Bogle

    Today, the news on Radio 4 recounted that about 1,000 new words had been included in the on-line edition of the Oxford Dictionary. Three examples were given, of which the first was “manspreading”. This refers to the practice by men of sitting down on a seat on an underground train and opening their legs wide, thereby limiting the space of those in the adjacent seats.

    Does the word “womanspreading” not exist to describe the female practice of sitting on one seat in a railway-train carriage and putting one’s handbag on the adjacent seat in order to have both seats to oneself?

    • TrulyDisqusted

      I believe the female equivalent of manspreading is lardar se, but they can’t help it you see because they are big boned, need stronger water tablets and/or they’ve got the painters in.

    • Suzy61

      Don’t be disgusting!!

      • The Bogle

        Your comment defies logic yet, illogically, it has been recommended.

        • Suzy61

          The typical male hegemony that begrudges a ‘lady’ to do whatever she wants!

          Maybe Chesters ‘got’ the joke? 🙂

          • The Bogle

            Are you saying that the female of the species may be selfish and the male of the species should condone such behaviour?

          • Suzy61

            The exact opposite. Sarcasm 🙂

          • The Bogle

            Noted, with appreciation.
            Does that same sarcasm applies to “disgusting” and presumably both forms of spreading are thus?

          • Yorkieeye

            Oh Bogle, you are dim

          • The Bogle

            Obviously I am, please enlighten me. Surely if I heard what Suzy61 said I would get the irony, but in written form one can only infer what she may, or may not, mean.

      • The Bogle

        OK, the penny’s finally dropped. I must have had a sheltered upbringing. But only a minority of women wear a short skirt these days, and what of a Scotsman wearing a kilt? We all know what a true Scot wears, or doesn’t wear under his kilt.

    • willshome

      Nope, that’s called “manspreading-shield deployment”.

      • The Bogle

        Wonderful. George Orwell would have a field day enlarging his dictionary of Newspeak.

        • Newspeak has doubleplus less words eliminate thoughtcrime. If words you need express thought eliminated then thoughtcrime impossible.

          • The Bogle

            You have a point. Orwell championed the use of plain language usage, not jargon.

          • Correct on both counts Mr Bogle. It is feminazi phantasy, and its aim is to prohibit all those words, phrases and attitudes describing normal, loving, civilisational and moral male-female relationships, by tarring them with the same outrage associated with the word ‘nigger’.

          • The Bogle

            The control of language and thus of self-expression is very 1984.

    • hedgemagnet

      I’ve learned (from the btl comments in the Graun article about the inclusion of these new words in the OED) that it’s called seatblagging. But you’re right, the majority of people who do this are women, and yet the language used to describe the practice is gender neutral and shame-free. Funny that.

      • The Bogle

        Thank you for this. It is significant that “seatblagging” should be neutral and shame-free, whereas “manspreading” is clearly gender-specific. This is surely sexist.

        What are “btl” comments?

        • You also have be considerate of cultural sensitivities when describing activities such as the illicit reservation of sun loungers at dawn, while the purpitrators are enjoying their breakfasts of beer and sourkrout.

          • The Bogle

            “beer and sourkrout” – so the worst (i.e. Wurst) is yet to come?

        • hedgemagnet

          btl. stands for below the line, aka the ‘bottom half of the internet’. As opposed to atl (above the line) which is the article itself. The ‘line’ presumably being an imaginary lion [sic] between the article and the comments (btl comments is actually a tautology on my part).

  • Richard Eldritch

    You may laugh Rod but you won’t thing it’s so funny when you’re the one having to fend off the unwanted attentions of some creep who wants to know what time the next bus arrives. YOU CIS MALE YOU!!!!

  • I think any encounter between myself and Ms Buchman would be exceedingly brief.

  • boiledcabbage

    These complainant women should be grateful of the offers of genetic diversity made on the transport systems, especially those coming from a downtrodden culture fallen on hard times. The randy old gits in suits should of course be thrown from the moving train, but the others are perhaps deserving of compassion. They probably haven’t had much fun since crossing the Med.

  • ArtieHarris

    75% of the victims of violence are men, not women.

    We need always to remember that.

    The same is true when it comes to domestic violence, when you take the trouble to include male victims of male violence. But, of course, they do not count the male victims of male violence in the stats.

    (Also, as an aside, violence towards children is mostly committed by women – check out any government website.)

    So, how come we never seem to hear about how threatened men might feel when going about their normal lives?

    • kitten

      Two women a week die at the hands of a partner or ex-partner.

      There were 22,116 recorded rapes in the year to June 2014, a rise of 29% on the year before, police figures released by the Office for National Statistics show.

      According to a study in 2009 by the NSPCC on young people aged between 13–18, a third of girls have experienced sexual violence and that as many as 250,000 teenage girls are suffering from abuse at any one time.[257][258]

      In 2013, a Ministry of Justice report stated that only 15 per cent of victims of the most serious sexual offences reported the incident to the police.[260]

      • ArtieHarris

        “Two women a week die at the hands of a partner or ex-partner.”

        85 men kill themselves every week. 10 are murdered.

        “There were 22,116 recorded rapes in the year to June 2014, a rise of 29%”

        Not true. The 22,116 refers to allegations. 90% of which could not be substantiated.

        “According to a study in 2009 by the NSPCC on young people aged between
        13–18, a third of girls have experienced sexual violence.”

        I quote from the NSPCC’s own document …

        “Estimates of sexual coercion and violence within previous research range from 4 percent to as high as 78 per cent,”

        See. It all depends on how you ask the questions.

        “In 2013, a Ministry of Justice report stated that only 15 per cent of
        victims of the most serious sexual offences reported the incident to the
        police.”

        That might be true. It might not be. For example, the MOJ, on the basis of its various questionnaires, recently concluded that 400,000 women had been sexually assaulted throughout the year. This is 2% of the adult female population.

        But …

        1. The implication of this is that – over a period of 50 years – some 20% of men sexually assault women.

        2. If just 2% of the women were lying, the whole figure evaporates.

        In short, these figures are unlikely to be valid.

        But, putting all this aside, my point still stands. So, I will make it again.

        75% of the victims of violence are men, not women.

        • kitten

          Those men are killed by men not women. That is the point.

          • ArtieHarris

            “Those men are killed by men not women. That is the point.”

            No, that was not your point, because all your statistics were to do with victims, not perpetrators.

            When it comes to victims, it is men, not women, who make up the majority. And, as is typical, when this is pointed out, some woman’s advocate will jump in to try to derail the issue.

            Victims are victims, regardless of who is the perpetrator.

            And most of the victims are men.

        • The Bogle

          A few years ago, there was a programme on BBC Radio that revealed that while in marriages or in cases of men and women living together, there were more cases of men assaulting women than of women assaulting men. Nonetheless, what was significant was that the number of women assaulting men in such relationships was not insignificant. However, the male partner felt too ashamed to report it to the police.
          Have you any statistics that back this finding up?

          • ArtieHarris

            ” there was a programme on BBC Radio that revealed that while in
            marriages or in cases of men and women living together, there were more cases of men assaulting women than of women assaulting men.”

            Firstly, this is hokum. One only has to look at the TV screen to see how acceptable, and amusing, it is deemed to be for women to hit men.

            I recommend watching this short clip showing Sharon Osbourne on The Talk to see just how appalling is the misandry in our society. It stands as a shining testament as to how hated are men these days.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkmanLIAdXI

            Secondly, just about all the research into these areas is purposely skewed in the usual direction – “men are bad”. Researchers who suggest otherwise tend to lose their funding, their status and, very often, their careers..

            Thirdly, questionnaire research is of no use when it comes to comparing the genders because the way in which they answer the quesions is likely to be different. Furthermore, the questions are usally rigged to ensure the politically correct outcome.

            Also, many academics in this area just plain lie.

            The UN, for example, has recently produced “research” specifically designed to increase the rape figures by claiming that having sex when not in the mood is the equivalent to rape.

            There is a wholesale attempt to deceive the public on such matters.

            They call allegations “rapes”. They call accusers “victims”. They will not prosecute false accusers, and they encourage them to come forward by the thousand. On and on it goes. The whole aim of these types of shenanigans is to deceive the public, to support the feminist agenda and, of course, to make a good living out of it.

            The wholesale lies from Kids Company – now exposed – regarding their own statistics is totally acceptable in these circles.

            I no longer trust any “research” in this area.

          • The Bogle

            I am in sympathy with what you write and found the clip from The Talk quite disgusting.

            In fairness to the BBC, which allegedly strives to be impartial, I think the presenter was trying to be balanced by saying that it is not just women who are victims in marriages or both-sex partnerships. In other words, the presenter was trying to counter a prejudice that only women are victims of such relationships and suffer violence. If one asked others who they perceived were the victims of violence in marriage, I suspect that most, if not all, would say the woman was. Is this brainwashing?

            In another BBC radio programme about ten years or longer ago, managers were interviewed, two of whom were women. One such woman had several children and held down a senior position. She took issue with the other woman who was married and worked because she earned more than her husband would have been able to earn. As a result, he looked after the children instead. The first woman found the notion of the husband staying at home to bring up the children ridiculous, especially as women had centuries of bringing up children. She seemed to be wanting to having her cake and eat it, while demeaning a decent man who, with his wife’s approval, was doing what he thought was the right thing.

            I find it odd that on the Farming Today programme, which goes out on BBC Radio 4 at 5.45 a.m., all five presenters are women. Perhaps they are the best people for the job but the BBC has done nothing to balance this gender inequality by engaging even one man.

          • ArtieHarris

            ” If one asked others who they perceived were the victims of violence in
            marriage, I suspect that most, if not all, would say the woman was. Is
            this brainwashing?”

            Yes. It follows decades of feminist-inspired propaganda and intimidation.

            Even now, whenever a false accuser is prosecuted, for example, women’s groups will launch into hostile attacks against the police arguing that such prosecutions will discourage genuine victims from coming foward.

            People have no idea just how dishonest are the media and government officials when it comes to inter-gender issues.

          • The Bogle

            Clearly, as far as victimhood is concerned some influential people in our society, e.g. the media and government officials have an agenda to pursue.

            What was that saying about “the slow march (of the Left) through the institutions”?

          • dwarfpoo

            I recall Kelly Brook laughing with the hosts on TV when she admitted hitting a number of her ex partners, Melanie Sykes the same. Why are they still in the public eye and not vilified for the abuse, the double standards are sickening. I donated an artwork to a legal charity exhibition called “justice”, for inclusion in the catalogue I stated something along the lines of the law should be applied in equal measure male and female as sentencing did not reflect this. When catalogue arrived they changed it to a ramble on textures and light! .

        • Marcus

          well said

  • ghostoflectricity

    Daisy Buchanan? Is that her real name? Like the character in ‘The Great Gatsby’ who so beguiles poor Jay Gatsby that that poor fraud twists himself into knots (and places himself in debt, unwisely, to gangsters who ensure they get paid back, one way or another) to impress her? We all know how that story turned out: not happily for the title character, though as Fitzgerald wrote, through his narrator Nick Carraway, Daisy and her rich husband Tom were able to retreat safely into their money and privilege after the damage had been done and Gatsby was dead.

    • Rush_is_Right

      Of Gatsby… “You’re worth the whole damn bunch (meaning the Buchanans etc.) put together.”

    • John Bindon

      Aah, you should read Mary Wakefield’s article and then you would know that we certainly dont all know how the Great Gatsby finished as a growing number of Americans refuse to read it – or even permit its being taught – as it might “trigger” feelings of deep trauma. Presumambly This Daisy Buchanan quite understands that viewpoint.

  • Des Demona

    A woman on a train once asked if I had change of a pound. I felled her with a left hook. That’s the only way to deal with these pervs.

    • TrulyDisqusted

      I slapped a pharmacist who raped me with her eyes as she asked invasive, threatening questions about my knee.

  • davidshort10

    I’ve lost count of the number of times my comments have been deleted from the Grauniad.

    • Morseman

      Yours truly has the honour of having been banned completely from the Guardian for daring to challenge a feminist article about rape.

      • How dare you make a comment about rape unless you are a zombified feminist rape victim of deconstructed and systematic mysogenist opresión yourself?

        • Morseman

          Eggzacktly.

      • WhiteVanMan

        Next time there’s a rutile on Julian Affange, the SWP or Rotherham, the guardian, writes an article saying it’s different to, a Tory MP being arrested then released with out charge,as those girls the left abused were no Angels, it won’t be based
        Then there’s the rape of men in prisons that criticisng the epistemology is homophobic, but then if you knock the guardian,
        It makes you a rape apologist

        • Morseman

          Comment deleted by its author.

    • This comment was removed by a pathetic cultural Marxist, Genocide-enabling pisslamophilic community moderator por contraviniendo nos EU-compliant community standards of creating a safe space for people of all disabilities, including those psycopathic, mental, violent nut jobs from 600CE.

    • Pete

      Same here. It’s the only place I ever have comments deleted from. The problem is if the opinion piece writer makes some complete nonsense point, and you challenge it (even with relevant statistics), they just delete your post for being “off topic”…

  • Baron

    The best way to put an end to the wretchedness of male’s behaviour Ms Buchanan has suffered from, to engineer ‘the final solution’ to it, is to enable all women to carry, a light subcompact G26 may be just the job.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQHWTfFV3Vc

  • MrB

    For a man that hates the Guardian, you spend an awful lot of time reading and then writing about it Rod. One could say you almost make a career out of it. I’m sure you’ve never witnessed women being harassed in a public space, but then again, it was probably you doing the harassing. How is the current Mrs Liddle by the way?

    • Callipygian

      Jerk.

  • Sue Smith

    Not the same sex carriages discussion again!!

  • redgrouper

    The article takes me back to an encounter I had in London in the 1980s. I was walking across a path over a piece of grass to get to another road. I passed a young woman of a similar age and I smiled at her. This what we generally do in the north when we meet people in a path without a lot of other people about. It is partly to acknowledge the other person and partly to reassure them that we are a friendly person going about our business and no threat to them. You would do it regardless of the age or gender of the other person. The woman snarled at me and said ‘Watch it’ in a loud voice. I was somewhat bemused.
    As for the train encounters. If you travel by public transport or spend a lot of time working on cafes you will meet a lot of people who are eccentric or have a learning disability of mental health problem. Some of these people inappropriately fiddle with their bits but this is due to poor social skills rather than perversion. These people will sometimes behave in ways which are initially a little unusual but most people are polite enough and friendly enough to realise that they just want a bit of conversation. Perhaps Daisy thinks they should be institutionalised so that they won’t bother her.
    Then we have the guy who wanted her name. He was probably a geek boy with poor social skills who wanted a date or friendship and doesn’t have Daisy’s wonderful skills.
    How awful it must be to be a moderately well off cosmopolitan Guardian columnist and have to deal with the imperfect elements in our society. How awful!

  • Christopher Gage

    Masterclass from Rod Liddle. Bravo.

    • The Bogle

      Clearly, she was no lady but doubtless she would have found that word insulting.

      • Christopher Gage

        Oh, how far we have fallen. 😉

        • The Bogle

          Alas, how true!
          In the canteen at university in the early 1980s, I motioned to a bedungareed woman standing near me to go ahead before me. I received a look befitting a Gorgon. Doubtless a reaction to what Suzy61 (see above) would describe as “male hegemony”.

    • right1_left1

      I bet you have NOT reported all the verbal exchange that occured.

      • Christopher Gage

        No. I make up trivial stories to gain 1 ‘like’ from people I don’t know or give a toss about. True story.

    • Mary Ann

      If you hold a door open for me I will politely say thank you,

  • mrs 1234

    Daisy Buchanan is a fool.

  • ViolinSonaten b minor.

    Will this be the start of a Disasters for Daisy sequence, Rod ?
    Does she have a little female Chihuahua by any chance ? if she does can you imagine
    the dramas in the local park with the big drooling male pooch. Obviously belonging
    to.a man.

  • eixo2

    “histrionic”? Why not “HERstrionic”, you sexist pig?

  • Tamerlane

    As usual, quick google, feminist fell out ugly tree and hit all branches on the way down.

    • Bonce

      No doubt jealous that other women receive attention from normal men, and therefore hates all men, because she does not receive any attention from men, unless they are in some way weird.

      That is the usual feminist you will come across. Unattractive, overweight and with stupid coloured haired which is always short.

  • davidshort10

    What a delicate flower! No wonder she is called Daisy. I wonder how she could ever be invited out on a date. Why is she so weak and defenceless and hasn’t learned how to fob off the creeps? Perhaps she is 12 or 13. These are of course questions we cannot ask in the Guardian forum. No wonder it is a sad reflection of its former self and losing circulation. (Comments on its circulation, the high salaries of its senior editors, its use of unpaid interns and the fact that they prefer to employ public schoolchildren are all reasons for deletion and then the banning of the commentator).

  • Hippograd

    Daisy will, of course, be fully in favour of opening the borders to chivalrous gentlemen of Muslim and dusky heritage from such havens of feminism as Somalia, Nigeria, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Even though she and her fellow anti-sexists know from personal experience who the worst perpetrators of harassment are. And not just harassment.

    • Don’t be such an entitled imperialist dinosaur. The whole point of tolerence is that British people must be ever more tolerent of the rich diversity of multikultural hell. Apart from those who can afford their champaigne enclaves of course.
      What the hell makes you think that you are entitled to your own country?

  • willshome

    Perhaps if Rod Liddle was regularly leered at, harrassed and wanked over by fat, old, beery, ugly, half-mad women who demand to know what’s in the book he’s reading and whether he’s off home, and how close he lives to the station, and told that he has a nice bulge (if he does), then he might start to see that it doesn’t actually brighten his day as much as he evidently thinks it would.

    If he’d like to leave details of his regular `Tube journeys, I’ll see when I’m free…

    • Snipkokken Balsov

      Where does Ms Buchanan mention being regularly leered at? Or being regularly harassed and wanked over? Does Ms. Buchanan describe her “assailants” as being old or ugly or reeking of beer? Does she describe the man who asked her what book she is reading as Half-mad? Do these men regularly inform Ms. Daisy that she has “nice bulges”?

      Poor woman, having her clothing “Clintoned” on a regular basis.

    • Jack Rocks

      It’s called civilisation.

  • Bonce

    Thanks to the Political correctness implemented by the New Left, and the Guardian is at the forefront of that, it is no longer acceptable to have honest discussions about a number of topics which would help our society improve.
    One of those in the news now is Immigration. It is not acceptable to say that you oppose 1 million plus entering your country every year, because you actually like British culture and Western European Civilization and would like it to be maintained. The reason why you would like it to be maintained, is because this is where you are from and you have right to maintain it, and secondly because it is such a great culture and is worth maintaining.

    The New Left is so powerful now, that this main argument which is against letting in 1 million foreigners into your country every year, is not acceptable, because the New Left says so and will call you a racist and xenophobe for saying it.

    Thanks to the Guardian newspaper.

  • goneunderground

    Good stuff as usual.

  • Frankie Villon

    If a young lad in the RAF hadn’t chatted up a young woman in a railway carriage in 1951, I wouldn’t be here.

  • Morseman

    Some railway companies in Britain used to have carriages or compartments reserved for Ladies.
    This ensured they were safe from the oafish tobacco-smelling and grunting males.

    • Precambrian

      They stopped having them because ladies are increasingly difficult to find….

  • Neil Saunders

    I share your sense of nausea, Rod. This sexual terrorist ought first to have submitted a request to approach the woman in question (via pre-arranged mediation) to the Women’s Studies Department of his nearest university, and signed a contract accepting that – should his application be approved, a meeting brokered and any subsequent contact maintained – he will nevertheless be guilty of at least constructive rape should the prissy missy or her harridan advisers at any time decide that he is.

    We men must once again hang our heads in shame!

  • rj

    So are we being told that talking to a girl you don’t know is taboo?
    Or is it to be sure that you are handsome/charming/wealthy enough before attempting eye contact?

    I don’t mind either way, it would just be interesting to know what the expectations are.

  • John Steadman

    Bang-on Rod. Then the rest of us wouldn’t have to endure the spectacle of the lasses whipping out a tit to feed a near to starving to death little brat.

    • I quite like seeing breastfeeding.

      • John Steadman

        While you’re having your dinner?

        • Jack Rocks

          Strange. It doesn’t give me palpitations. The sight of an overweight blue-rinse social justice warrior-type lesbian does make me feel nausea, however.

        • Really, it wouldn’t bother me. The baby and I would just be having dinner together.

          • John Steadman

            Even if your eating semolina?

          • Even if I was drinking a banana milkshake.

          • John Steadman

            A man can’t argue with that.

  • Annette

    Oh do stop whining.

  • Wilkes Spooner

    She should have waited for Jay

  • Laura

    The photo above isn’t representative of course.

    Men like Liddel and co are offended by the proposition that things have reached such a pass that that the 20th century experiment in letting them mix with women has been a failure. That women’s civil rights are daily being negatively affected by their anti-social, downright scary and violent behaviour towards us. That each of us makes calculations a hundred times a day, usually subconsciously by adulthood, to circumvent it.

    I think about how I drive my car so as not to upset one of you, can I overtake or will that wound your pride and cause you to make rude gestures at me, or try to run me off the road as happened once, or jump out of of your car and bang angrily on my window ordering me to get out, as happened another time. Where I park, is it hidden by a van, do I need to walk past trees, is there CCTV, what time will I need to get back to it, what I have on my feet, can I do overtime or will it be too dangerous, and that’s just before 8am. After 8pm it goes up a notch and several times a week, retrieving my car surely qualifies as an adrenaline sport. I’ve given up on the late Friday train altogether as I don’t want to sit in men’s urine and sick and listen to men swear loudly and drunkly or sing sickening songs about wanting to stick knives up women’s x*^€s or be in genuine fear of my life in the late night stations.

    Not offended enough to do a damn thing about it of course. Just offended enough to be perpetual victims because women notice.

    • Mc

      “I think about how I drive my car so as not to upset one of you….etc”

      Strangely, as a man, I have similar thoughts about my personal safety. So perhaps your concerns aren’t due to the fact that too many men are misogynistic pigs. Or, to be brutally honest about myself, it could just be that I’m simply highly neurotic.

      The only (temporary) solution to my anxieties, I’ve found, is getting therapy and attending an AA-type self-help group for fellow sufferers. Would you like to join us at our next meeting? Details can be found at http://www.triggerwarnings-and-safespaces.com

  • TLKC

    Silly article. What is Daisy Buchanan doing on a train in the UK? She’s a fictional character and, if she were real, she would most probably be dead (or over 100.) And, if she had a real-life, female contemporary, that person would probably be travelling by private jet (the real life counterpart of Tom being so rich and all) where no one would speak to her unless they were spoken to.

    Come to think of it, an awful lot of people who write for this magazine would consider it incredibly presumptuous of strangers to address them without invitation.

  • tolpuddle1

    A Feminist wrote indignantly to a paper demanding that it was men (the cause of all the trouble) not women, who should be locked into their own carriages.

    She was apparently too daft to see that segregated carriages (and perhaps we should have separate carriages, facing Mecca, for Islamists too) are effectively doing just that.

  • Shapster

    Ordinarily I love Rod Liddles irreverence and his cruel habit of cutting to the truth of the matter in the face of trendy Guardian style thinking. And my immediate reaction to his attack on a Guardian article written by a (probably) namby pamby middle class, self loving, self possessed girly, stupidly named Daisy was ‘good on yer Rod, another one in the eye for the type of people who irritate the life out of me’. But I’ve now read her article and may I make a point?
    I have 4 children, all female and all brought up in relative rural innocence oop north, to be polite, pleasant and honest. Oddly, one by one they’ve all gone down to the capital to study and subsequently live afterwards….all now in their early to late twenties.
    They started out working in a restaurant up here aged 14 and in the last 10 plus years, I’ve lost count of the times Ive silently seethed and raged at the stories one or other of them has related about the sh1t they have had to listen to from smart ass’d men, attempting to either score points off a naive, shy young lass, big themselves up, scare her or possibly even “pull” her…occasionally it’s been pleasant banter or flirting but 5 times in 10 they’ve come away unnerved, angry or scared.
    I swear that one day I’ll shadow one of them for a full week and knock the day lights out of some smart ass half wit. Just saying that’s all. Wait til your wee uns grow up and get a dose of it Rod….see how sarcy you are then…

  • andylowings

    Apparently you know exactly where you are in Russia. Its old-school life there.

  • WarriorPrincess111111

    Daisy would be better protected if she was locked up in a padded cell.

  • Peter Bering

    Today’s media “feminists” are immensely destructive enemies of society. They crave being taken hard by Musllims and negroes, but scream at any white man who merely opens his mouth. They are programmed to mental illness. They must be isolated by sane women.

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