Features

I'm no fan of Obama. But on Brexit, he does speak for America

23 April 2016

9:00 AM

23 April 2016

9:00 AM

You don’t like Barack Obama’s foreign policy? Fine, I don’t either. You are impatient to know who the next president will be? Me too. But if you think that the current American president’s trip to the UK this week is some kind of fanciful fling, or that his arguments against Brexit represent the last gasp of his final term in office, then you are deeply mistaken. In Washington, the opposition to a British withdrawal from the European Union is deep, broad and bipartisan, shared by liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans alike.

I should qualify that: the opposition to a British withdrawal from the European Union is deep, broad and bipartisan — and shared by the shrinking number of Democrats, Republicans and diplomats who are still interested in and committed to the transatlantic alliance. The isolationist wings of both parties don’t care one way or the other about Brexit. But then, the followers of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders also don’t care about Nato, the special relationship, European security or anybody else’s security either.

Britain’s friends in Washington are opposed to Brexit precisely because isolationists of all political backgrounds are growing in numbers and influence all across the western world, and they don’t want Britain to join them, especially not right now. The institutions of the West are under attack in a way that they have not been for a quarter century, and Nato is not going to be able to counter all of them. A revanchist Russia is not content to flirt with military challenges to the western alliance, using its jets to buzz American ships or swoop close to British airspace; its leaders also seek to weaken western democracies from within by exporting corruption, buying politicians, funding radical parties and manipulating social media in the UK as well as the rest of Europe.


At the same time, a virulent strain of Islamist extremism has not only made governance impossible across large swaths of the Middle East and North Africa, it has also infected young people in Europe too. Brussels and Paris have seen only the most recent manifestations of the madness which led to the murder of Lee Rigby three years ago and the 7/7 attacks in London in 2005. Added to these challenges is a sudden abundance of homegrown populists who want to close borders and resurrect the protectionist walls that impoverished all of us in the first half of the 20th century.

These challenges are internal as well as external, requiring cooperation in economics, in policing, in areas of public policy that go well beyond the bounds of what Nato can do but are certainly within the remit of the European Union. When I was recently in Washington, an American diplomat reminded me that the sanctions which helped stop a full-blown Russian invasion of Ukraine (and maybe more) were only possible because the European Union was able to bring together all of Europe’s leaders in a negotiation that included the United States. Britain helped convince other, more ambivalent Europeans to join the sanctions, which is part of why they succeeded. If it had left the EU, Britain would not have had nearly as much influence, or perhaps any influence at all.

I do realise that ‘British influence’ matters less to most Britons than to many in Washington, and I expect that most inhabitants of these islands would rather have purely economic relations with the rest of the world and be done with it. But that’s not how the world works: if you don’t try to shape it, then others will do so for you. Even if your goals in Europe are narrow — if all you want is that the European continent remain relatively competitive and open to trade, including British trade — then you have to push other Europeans in that direction from within European institutions, as you have been doing so successfully for the past several decades.

Really, that’s all Americans want from Britain too: stay inside, promote our joint Anglo-American values, don’t let the continent collapse into protectionism or authoritarianism, and don’t drift off into an isolationism that will end badly for us all. President Obama will speak on behalf of many Americans when he calls on Britain to stay engaged in European politics, or at least those Americans who still care. As for those who don’t care — I don’t think there’s much that Britain can expect from them anyway.

Anne Applebaum is a columnist for the Washington Post and a former deputy editor of The Spectator.

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Show comments
  • Liberty

    This is rather pointless because ‘project fear’ is being very, very effective, but et tu, Anne? I love your books but re the EU you seem as deluded as all most of the political elite. The EU is not a bastion of Western civilisation but the antithesis of it. The West is built on democracy, honest government, free markets and a few other things. The EU is the antithesis of all that. Western civilisation [unless you think that Marx is the best representative of it] is being undermined by the EU; laws made by unelected bureaucrats, its accounts have NEVER been signed off, markets are fixed by the EU and lobby groups; that is why there is an internal market in manufactured goods – to aid the Germans – and none in services – to spite the UK whose economy is 70% services and the City. The EU parliament is a good example. It is vastly expensive but useless and powerless, set up to pretend to be democratic. MEPs get $80,000 pa at a special low tax rate of 23% plus $415,000 in tax free allowances – no receipt required – $220,000 of which can be paid to ones offspring, or spouse. Many say that if you don’t end a term without $1m clear your not doing it right. Yet they can initiate no laws and can only return them for second thoughts to the commission which usually tell the MEPs to shut up and do what they are paid to do, what they are told. And I haven’t started on the euro and the free movement of peoples yet. I give up.

    • johnb1945

      Your examples of Western foundations don’t include trade.

      Trade is the channel for ideas, and this is precisely what the EU is – a trade based conduit for liberal democracy.

      We leave the EU, we destabilise trade in an act of self harm and we potentially invite Europe to become less open and more protectionist, if not completely fragmented.

      • Liberty

        EU trade is focussed internally and discriminates against many others, stymied by the need to appease 28 nations and the euro. The EU has an internal market in goods but not services to suit Germany and hamper us, especially the City – a bastion of free market enterprise and thus hated. The EU have an exploitative relationship with those that should be trading massively with us such as Kenya and Mauritania. We impose GM and organic limits on Kenya produce and restrict their exports of goods that could compete with the French, Italians or Spanish when with their all year round warmth, sunshine and good soils they could do much better. The EU bribes the government of Mauritania to let the Spanish overfish their waters pauperizing their fishermen. We should be equipping them with boats, processing stations and open our markets for them to fish and sell to us. In the days of the British Empire anyone in the world could set up anywhere in the Empire protected by the British navy and trade anywhere with a nominal max of 5% duty to meet admin costs only. This – the spread of commerce – is the main gift of the British Empire to the world. The sclerotic EU has not yet a trade deal with the US, China or India but Australia, Singapore and Israel have free trade deals with all three.

        • johnb1945

          And we’re going to deregulate the service market by leaving?

          There is no need to complicate this argument.

          The quid pro quo of EU membership is that you maintain standards of liberal democracy and economic freedoms. This is the modern day exemplar of using trade to spread idea(l)s.

          You are quibbling over current imperfections and details and saying that, therefore, the entire concept should be torn up.

          Rather than changed, tuned and allowed to evolve with Britain as an influential partner.

          Crazy,

          • Mr B J Mann

            “The quid pro quo of EU membership is that you maintain standards of liberal democracy and economic freedoms.”

            What are you on?!

            Telling people to vote again because they voted wrong in the referendum is maintaining standards of liberal democracy?!

            Telling a country to change its government because the EU didn’t like the one it voted in is maintaining standards of liberal democracy?!?!

            Replacing o democratically elected governments with EU bureaucrats is maintaining standards of liberal democracy?!?!?!?!

          • johnb1945

            How many dictatorships, or even illiberal democracies are there in the EU?

            What were Greece, Spain, Portugal, the entire East bloc before membership?

            What will Turkey have to do if it wishes to join?

            Eejit.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Errrrmmmmmmm

            Can you call Ireland a democracy if it can be dictated to rerun a referendum until it gets the answer the EU wants?

            Can you call Austria a democracy if it can be dictated to ignore the will of the electorate and form a goverment more in line with what the EU wants?

            Can you call Italy or Greece democracies if it can be dictated to them that they have to replace their democratically elected governments with EU apparatchniks?!

            And what about Germany and Sweden, and no doubt others, telling their police and newspapers not to reveal the truth about EU supported immigration related crime, and criminalising any whistleblowers who dare reveal the truth, or even oppose the EU policy?

            Is that what passes for democracy in your little Europhile bubble?!

            EEJIT!

      • Itinerant

        ” a trade based conduit for liberal democracy.”

        Wolfgang Schäuble “Elections change nothing. There are rules”

        The EU is undemocratic, anti-democratic even- democratic movements that oppose the EU are derided as populist and/or extremist.
        The EU has circumvented and shown utter contempt, for the results of referenda on multiple occasions.
        It might have been a conduit for ‘liberal democracy’ to the ex-Soviet countries but that has given way to increasing authoritarian rule by centralised diktat- written with no democratic oversight whatsoever, which seems all too familiar to many East Europeans who suffered under Soviet-rule.
        It is the EU’s own economic and social-engineering policies that are fracturing Europe, while well on their way to disenfranchising and vilifying half the European electorate.

        • johnb1945

          Wouldn’t necessarily disagree with you on any of that, although I would add corporatist Portugal, Greece, Fascist Spain to your list of countries where the EU guarantees democracy.

          I would also point out that populist parties which deride the EU are minority parties, still. UKIP, for example, got 4 million votes, so they don’t speak for the “people”.

          They will probably become more popular, however, if the EU does not roll back its overreach and listen to its people.

          Britain’s best place is inside trying to find ways to address the democracy deficit.

          • Itinerant

            ‘It guarantees democracy in Greece’
            They replaced a democratically elected Greek PM, with a troika of unelected bankers and EUcrats? funny way of protecting democracy.
            (they also fomented rebellion in Ukraine, the got rid of a democratically elected government (albeit corrupt), one the EU had recognised as such, to replace it with a bunch of extremely dodgy figures- in the name of democracy.
            Greece has been told by various EU voices, elections change nothing and the sovereign nation is finished, especially a small bankrupt one like Greece.

            “Britain’s best place is inside trying to find ways to address the democracy deficit.”

            “Between 2009 and 2014, 1936 votes were held in the European Parliament, and 576 of them were opposed by a majority of the UK’s 73 elected representatives.

            But of those, 485 were still passed – meaning the view of Britain being outvoted in 86 per cent of cases, according to research by Business for Britain.
            This rises to 98 per cent in votes that cover budgets, and 92 per cent on constitutional and inter-institutional affairs.”

            http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11066802/How-British-MEPs-are-outvoted-time-and-again-in-Brussels.html

          • johnb1945

            The trouble with Greece is that, entirely by their own hand, they exist on other peoples’ money. Money loaned to them by other democratic governments who are also accountable to their peoples.

            So it’s a bad example.

          • walworthianus

            Winning votes, losing votes – isn’t that what happens in a democratic system? Or should the UK Govt, exceptionally, have the final casting vote on every item?

        • Hamburger

          Herr Schäuble, with whom I usually disagree, is correct. There are treaties between the countries of the EU which contain agreements and these agreements are the regulations that determine how the EU is run. A change of government in a country does not mean that the treaties are null and void.

    • Swarm of Dronesᵀᴿᵁᴹᴾ

      Britain has good friends all around Europe and the US who all argue for Remain.
      You are going to have to get Vladimir Putin out in support of your side of the argument.
      Favour an EU breakup? Of course you do.
      GET SMART!

  • Tamerlane

    Now who’s that Polish chap banging the drum for continued UK EU membership… step forward Radoslaw Sikorski Bullingdon chum of David Cameron and husband of… Anybody? Anybody?

  • Frank

    Anne, you are not on Britain’s side so please wind your neck in. America has her interests to defend and so does Britain. Is that so very hard to understand? Israel may well think she is better served by the survival of the EU, but she is wrong as Merkel is already demonstrating by allowing the prosecution of a German comic at the request of the Turkish dictator.

  • johnb1945

    How is this article dated April 23, 2016? Spectator Ed?

    • FrankS2

      The Speccie (like many weeklies) dates its publication as the last date if that week,

      • johnb1945

        I see. Thanks for the explanation. I had never heard of this before.

  • commenteer

    Since you see everything through the prism of Polish interests I don’t understand why this article doesn’t appear under your married name, Mrs Sikorski.
    And since you know Britain reasonably well, I can’t understand why you don’t tell your American friends how little influence Britain has with its ‘friends’ in the EU.

    • Boleslaw Bierut

      Spot on. It’s EU politics of her husband’s (pro German, anti-Russian and anti-American) speaking through here. She used to be a good read but it’s long ago and not true any more, as a Polish saying goes.

  • Marketthinker

    In another thread there is discussion about the disappearance of comments from the Telegraph. I wonder if they might suddenly appear after the referendum? There were after all a rather annoying amount of sensible comments questioning the Establishment opinion pieces that sneer at Brexit . On the US wanting the UK to stay in Europe, of course they do. The EU is an American project that was designed to fight the cold war by proxy and is sadly still being used to do so. It is all part of the Grand ChessBoard outlined by Brzezinski twenty years ago. Who wants Ukraine in the EU, or Turkey? Not the people of Europe who would see millions of economic migrants arbitraging the literally 10 fold average earnings differential between the ‘old’ and new members of the EU, but the USA. A united states of Europe that keeps Russia down, speaks English, with Britain as the banking sector and acting as Staff Sergeant, keeping the rest in line with US policy aims is ideal for the US. But not for the UK.

    • Lady Magdalene

      Cancelled my subscription to the Daily Torygraph when the comment pages disappeared. They won’t get any money off me again until they’re restored.

  • polidorisghost

    I have a better idea Anne – Let the USA join the EU in our place.
    Good deal?

    • thomas_paine2

      Carney seems keen on it too, seems to think it’s Heaven sent, maybe he could persuade young Trudeau to get Canada to apply

  • britbob

    About time Obama and the US moved off the fence from ‘recognizing the de facto UK administration of the Falklands’ to realizing that Argentina’s Falklands’ claim is spurious and that they have been duped into believing propaganda. Time to recognize that only the Falkland Islanders can determine how and by whom they are governed and dismiss that mythical Malvinas fairy tale:

    https://www.academia.edu/21721198/Falklands_1833_Usurpation_and_UN_Resolutions

  • WFC

    When Americans start allowing a Court in Mexico, and an unelected President from Costa Rica, to order their affairs, then we might be inclined to listen to their opinions on Brexit.

  • FrankS2

    Brexit doesn’t equate to isolationism; and Britain’s influence in Europe, and elsewhere, is arguably diminished as a member of the EU.

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      It certainly will be if the EU poaches the UK (and France’s) UN Security Council seats. The UK already has limited influence in the WTO because of the EU, with the result that the EU does not necessarily always act in the UK’s interests within the WTO – in fact quite the opposite as it has 27 other countries to consider.

  • new_number_2

    I imagine part of Obama’s opposition to the UK leaving the EU is due to fears of it having the perception of being symptomatic of his Presidency and symbolic of a weaker US whose influence is waning in the world. Of course in reality this is a matter entirely related to the UK’s membership of the EU, but undoubtedly this argument will be used against Obama.

  • Roger Hudson

    What’s wrong with Obama saying that it’s in America’s interest for the UK to be in the EU ? That is what he is saying, isn’t it?
    Britains should think what is in Britain’s long term interest, not America’s and vote accordingly.

    • somewhereinthesouth

      Well it would most likely be in Britain’s and the EU’s interests if Donald Trump [amongst others ] isn’t elected president but will Cameron be invited to the White House to ask the Americans to vote for another candidate ? No .Double standards .

      • BeccaLeigh

        Cameron came to DC and tried to convince Congress not to pass sanctions on Iran about a year ago. We thought it was out of line and we view Obama sticking his nose in your business to be an attempt to bully you, done in his own arrogant way.

        • somewhereinthesouth

          I agree it would be wrong for Cameron [ or anyone else ] to speak to Congress to influence the vote . Its one thing for diplomats to discuss at bilateral meetings things of common interest , it quite another to try to influence the voters and their representatives directly . So far we’ve had the a government funded propaganda leaflet , a government backed treasury report telling half truths about how well all one money [ when at best what they are saying we will be better off but perhaps by less – provided we accept uncontrolled migration ] , the IMF predicting the economic sky will fall if we leave , several US treasury secretaries telling us to stay for much the same reasons and soon it will be Obama with the same propaganda . Hopefully people here will see that the establishment is just closing ranks and will look at the wider picture . I don’t knew about the US but here many people are getting fed up with mainstream politicians who basically cant do anything to solve problems of debt spending ,political correctness , problems they’ve often created by their own actions in the first place . Now its all too difficult to change apparently.

    • thomas_paine2

      precisely and vote LEAVE

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      As long as he does state that the US has a vested interest in the UK staying in the EU, fine. However, if he says that ‘the UK would be better off in the EU’, without any qualification, then he is meddling in a sovereign state’s internal affairs and should butt out.

  • Speedy

    There is no special relationship, hasn’t been for decades

    • thomas_paine2

      No, there has been since 1942, to suit the USA every time ; Mrs Thatcher feigned making a big thing about it to irritate the Eurofanatic grandees in the Tory Party and they got her for t in the end.

    • popskihaynes

      I have never believed in this stupid phrase. Far better to remember Lord Palmerston’s words about nations having neither permanent friends or foes, just permanent interests which Obama is expressing. It is the State Department’s view that the UK inside the EU is better for US interests however they are wrong.

      If I were calculating for the US, I might suggest that a UK that is no longer part of the EU and needing a ‘friend’ might be a lot more useful to the US… But of course, all institutions like the State Department breed conservative thinking, it would take a awful lot for original thinking to emerge from such places.

  • Stu

    The ‘special relationship’ never existed, but has only ever been a one way deal. What support did we get during the Falkland’s campaign? What support have we had in more than 30 years since?
    The truth is that the US has no friends, and has only ever been about self-interest, more than any other nation.
    It’s only a couple of years since Obama was declaring France as America’s strongest ally in Europe.

    • Malcolm Stevas

      Actually we had some decent US support during the Falklands War, like access to satellite reconnaissance imagery and a prompt supply of the latest AIM-9L Sidewinder AAMs that proved so valuable for our Sea Harriers in shooting down a goodly number of Argentine aircraft. But this support was due largely to the good offices of Sir Nicco in Washington, and of course to the redoubtable Margaret Thatcher’s handbagging. It wasn’t automatic…

      • Stu

        That may be so, but then the US would sell weapons to anyone…surprising that they weren’t arming the Argentinians too, but then they had our friends the French to arm them!
        What we’ve never had, is what we need most…public, vocal support for our legitimate claim to the Falklands, and indeed now to the islander’s rights of self-determination.
        Only 3 people voted against remaining a British Overseas Territory, and they weren’t voting to become Argentinian, but foolishly to become completely independent…as if the Falklands would last 5 minutes without British protection.

        • Malcolm Stevas

          The Americans are fairly fussy over to whom they will sell weaponry. Our friends the French armed Argentina? So did we, with Type 42 destroyers, equipped with Exocet – just like the Royal Navy – not to mention Blowpipe shoulder-launched AA missiles, one of which brought down a RAF Harrier flown by Jeff Glover.
          You’re right that the US is equivocal about the Falklands’ future, indeed they’ve been like that since the Monroe Doctrine was formulated.

        • Aberrant_Apostrophe

          The US sold the Argentinians the cruiser Belgrano, which, as the USS Phoenix, was one of the few US ships that survived Pearl Harbour.

      • Tom M

        I was just about to write that.

      • Aberrant_Apostrophe

        The UK already had an agreement in place for satellite imagery, so it was no big deal that the US let us access it.

        Totally OT, but it does illustrate that we sometimes do have a special relationship with the US, I once had an American colleague in the US Navy Research Labs, whose job was to map the ocean floor. When he learned that the UK was sending the Task Force to the Falklands he contacted his opposite number in the MoD to ask if the ships could travel abreast of each other, rather than in line, which was the normal practice, so they could use their sonar systems to map a wide swath down the middle of the South Atlantic, which hadn’t been mapped particularly well up to that time. The result was loads of useful scientific data at virtually no cost to the US or UK taxpayers – apart from the cost of retaking the Falklands, obviously.

        • Malcolm Stevas

          Fascinating snippet! Never heard any suggestion of that, but you have inside info, rather specialised too. Thanks.

      • Mr B J Mann

        Meanwhile Belgium refused to supply ammo for our weapons and France ha kitted out the Argies with Exocets!

    • Callan

      The only thing I admire Obama for is giving those US dvd’s to the Brownjob. I bet it’s been driving him crackers trying to get them to play on his machine.

      • thomas_paine2

        mmm – Region 1

      • zappata

        They wouldn’t fit in his VHS player.

  • Steven Barr

    Did your husband tell you to write this?

    • zappata

      What’s he up to these days?He seems to have suffered something of a career downturn – marvellous to behold!

  • Denis_Cooper

    “… an American diplomat reminded me that the sanctions which helped stop a full-blown Russian invasion of Ukraine (and maybe more) were only possible because the European Union was able to bring together all of Europe’s leaders in a negotiation that included the United States. Britain helped convince other, more ambivalent Europeans to join the sanctions, which is part of why they succeeded. If it had left the EU, Britain would not have had nearly as much influence, or perhaps any influence at all.”

    Leave aside the question of whether the sanctions were a good idea or had any beneficial effect, and just focus on the sheer illogicality of that argument.

    The United States, which of course is not in the EU, was involved in this negotiation, but apparently the involvement of the UK was entirely dependent on it being in the EU?

    There are Americans like this woman who seem to think that we have no national interest of our own, we are just here to act as their Trojan horse and promote their national interests in the EU.

    Although to be fair she is not just American but also Polish, another personal interest there.

    • Hamburger

      You miss the point. If Britain is outside the EU it’s ability to influence EU members would be reduced.

      • Denis_Cooper

        You miss the point. The UK barely has any influence now within the EU, and would have little to lose by being outside the EU.

        • Hamburger

          I would beg to differ.

          • Denis_Cooper

            You are free to do so.

    • zappata

      Indeed.The Poles still hanker after recreating their own historic proto-EU,the unlamented Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and have never forgiven the Russians for reversing their “drang nach ost” and putting Poland back behind its mediaeval borders – where it belongs.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    “..stay inside, promote our joint Anglo-American values..”
    Our values are joint? Really? I’m not anti-American, quite the contrary, but I echo others in asserting that there really is no “special relationship”, and anyone who visits the USA realises immediately that it’s a big mistake for any Brit to imagine Americans are just our long-lost cousins who talk more or less the same language. It’s a foreign country – more so for me than our next door neighbours France and Germany, to name but two.
    As for, “..isolationists of all political backgrounds are growing in numbers and influence all across the western world, and they don’t want Britain to join them,” I thought Applebaum was too smart to parrot the idiot EU-phile refrain about Brexit’s amounting to isolationism. Next thing, she’ll be referring to “Little Englanders”.

  • Denis_Cooper

    If Obama really wants to get our backs up he should tell this American and Polish woman to keep writing articles in the British press saying we should stay in the EU to serve American interests.

  • popskihaynes

    Whilst I can understand her argument, what she is missing is what the key point is and what the UK Referendum vote really comes down to. Despite all the daft arguments put forward by both the remain and leave camps, the truth is that not for the first time in history, principally the French and the Germans have lost the plot, neither are apparently prepared to face the harsh reality of the problems that our Continent faces bought about mainly by that foolhardy experiment of the Euro and now worsened by a flood of immigrants.

    The real question is whether the UK can ‘wake them up’ better by remaining within the EU or, by leaving give them a sharp boot up their backsides. The omens are not good for either course of action. That they ‘didn’t understand the question’ is obvious from the meagre concessions David Cameron got offered and are supposed to represent a “Reformed EU” (puke here). So staying within does not look promising for creating the structured changes desperately needed.

    As both the French and Germans are due elections next year and Hollande has the same prospects of remaining President as you and I and we aren’t standing, us leaving will lead to all kinds of “blame games” aimed at the “ungrateful roast beefs” and they still won’t listen until the sound of tumbrils rumble through the streets.This total lack of political horse sense right across the Chancelleries of Europe was last seem just prior to WWI and that didn’t end too well did it.

    In the end, it matters little how we vote because if as is expected the remain campaign wins, the EU as we know it will not exist in 5 years time anyway, it will implode on its own contradictions.

    • Mr B J Mann

      “The real question is whether the UK can ‘wake them up’ better by remaining within the EU or, by leaving give them a sharp boot up their backsides.”

      We’ve been in over a generation, it’s bee around. In various guises, for over two generations, and they are still sleepwalking towards that fatal fall!

    • Kennybhoy

      Indeed. Sound insightful post from first to last.

  • BeccaLeigh

    Obama doesn’t speak for all Americans. I’m a conservative and most of us think that Britain should get out while they can! The only countries that benefit from the EU are the debt-ridden, weaker countries because now they’ve essentially spread their debt around to all the countries in the EU. It will only drag you down and from what I can see, Britain is one of the few European countries that isn’t welcoming these “refugees” with open arms. Countries like Germany are causing concern here because we don’t require visas for people travelling from the EU countries. We can’t rely on them to make sure that terrorists don’t board planes for the US! I just hope that Britain does what is in it’s best interests and ignores people like Obama!

    • Ken

      Germany and Sweden have a vested interest in giving these people whatever documents they need to move elsewhere.

      • Aberrant_Apostrophe

        …and all Germans can wave goodbye to the US visa waiver system, including Dr Merkel.

  • Ken

    I doubt most Americans could find Britain on a world map. To claim that Obama speaks for them is somewhat disingenuous.

    ” …its leaders also seek to weaken western democracies from within by exporting corruption, buying politicians …”

    They can only export corruption if we’re willing to import it. They can only buy politicians if they offer themselves for sale. If all that is true, then our society is collapsing from within, not from without.

  • John Carins

    Americans protect so called Western values of democracy and sovereignty and yet they are prepared to advise the British people that we need to sacrifice these values because it is in the interests of the US and the EU. The US needs to really examine its own principles and support “independence” just as they did for all of those countries seeking independence from Britain. Double standards are at the centre of this US advice. Britons seize your independent future.

  • Mr B J Mann

    Britain’s friends in Washington are opposed to Brexit precisely because isolationists of all political backgrounds are growing in numbers and influence all across the western world, and they don’t want Britain to join them, especially not right now.

    There is a world world difference between being isolationist and wanting your sovereignty back.

    The institutions of the West are under attack in a way that they have not been for a quarter century, and Nato is not going to be able to counter all of them.

    Yup, NATO can’t help the UK regain it’s sovereignty from the EU.

    So the point is?!

  • Tickertapeguy

    New reason for BREXIT!
    The European Union is forming a “European Army” independent of NATO. Recently Germany and the Netherlands have contributed to the first attempt to join navies.
    What I do not understand is why a “joined European military, navy and Air force”? Who is the enemy other than the European people?
    A “united” European military, navy and air force also will neutralize Great Britain’s traditional military independence from the continent of Europe.
    It will nullify all the battles Great Britain’s military fought to keep Great Britain free from the European powers on the continent.

    • thomas_paine2

      And it must never be forgotten, any force taking up arms for Britain are first and foremost HM Forces, not the EU’s.

      • Tickertapeguy

        and His Majesty is the titular head of the Church of England and the titular head of the Commonwealth of nations, not Brussels

        • thomas_paine2

          right, except when Blair took personal command of HM Forces to join with Bush’s USA to launch an illegal invasion and occupation of a sovereign nation, namely Iraq. Because I cannot believe Her Majesty sanctioned it.

          • Tickertapeguy

            Didn’t Blair also take the guns away from the British people? is that true?

          • thomas_paine2

            Correct, getting a gun is nigh on impossible except for criminals of course, the authorities will get around to rectifying that when they grow some guts.

          • Tickertapeguy

            Just getting back to you. Was out picking raspberries. Ton load all over the place.
            The only way I can see is for the British people to support any candidate, running for office in the parliament, that is pro gun.

    • Trailblazer10

      Correct. It is to enforce EU ideology.

      • Tickertapeguy

        My idea of the EU ideology benefited
        -the banks of Europe
        -the elite of Europe
        -the Politicians of Europe
        The average European was the biggest loser. Am I correct in that assumption?

    • Hamburger

      I believe you share an aircraft carrier with France. That sounds very independent to me.

      • Tickertapeguy

        I believe you are nuts. That sounds logical to me.

        • Hamburger

          Don’t the British share an aircraft carrier with France? If not we should know.

          • Tickertapeguy

            I am American, not British. That may explain your first comment to me.
            They maybe, but the point is that the EU now wants a European union military (independent of NATO). That is a radical move and puts a lot of power into Brussels while taking it away from other European capitals.

          • Hamburger

            I agree. As long as France and Britain cooperate with each other and ignore German/Dutch plans it will not matter. The German and Dutch military are probably the worst in Europe. The French and the British military are the only ones that matter.

          • Tickertapeguy

            Hamburger
            that is not the intention of the EU.
            Brussels wants a pan European military including Great Britain and France. The same members in the European Union will share their military to make a single Pan European military. That was my point.

          • Hamburger

            They may want it. They won’t get it, which is my point.

          • Tickertapeguy

            Since the Treaty of Rome the European Union was formed with or without the consent of the people
            those who gained from the EU so far include
            the banks of Europe
            Europe’s elite
            Europe’s Politicians
            to date Europeans have not been able to even control their borders as the politicians decide that.
            How then is the formation of a EU military, which BTW does not have an enemy except the people of Europe, going to be stopped?

          • Kasperlos

            Precisely. The EU is Spectre.

          • Tickertapeguy

            Poor James Bond, and the original Sean Connery is not there to stop them. He is Scottish too.

  • Mr B J Mann

    A revanchist Russia is not content to flirt with military challenges to the western alliance, using its jets to buzz American ships or swoop close to British airspace; its leaders also seek to weaken western democracies from within by exporting corruption, buying politicians, funding radical parties and manipulating social media in the UK as well as the rest of Europe.

    Unlike when US ships illegally carry out manouvres in the Black Sea?

    Or when the US complains about its jets being “forced” to breach Swedish airspace when chased not just out of Russian airspace but away from Russian territory?!

    And as for exporting corruption?!?!

    Why has the current, illegal, coup installed Ukranian government just failed?!?!?!

    And which country manipulated not just social media everywhere from Libya to Syria, not to mention Yugoslavia to the Ukraine (and all round the rest of the world), but not just fed and watered protesters courtesy of its ambassadors and heads of intelligence stations, but trained, armed and equipped terrorists from Afghanistan to Yugoslavia and Libya to Syria (and all round the rest of the world) AND provided them with air forces?!?!

  • Mr B J Mann

    “</i virulent strain of Islamist extremism has not only made governance impossible across large swaths of the Middle East and North Africa, it has also infected young people in Europe too. Brussels and Paris have seen only the most recent manifestations of the madness which led to the murder of Lee Rigby three years ago and the 7/7 attacks in London in 2005."

    All funded by the US’s best mate Saudi Arabia.

    And the US.

    From Afghanistan to Syria.

    Via Yugoslavia, which the EU helpfully stirred up!

  • Mr B J Mann

    an American diplomat reminded me that the sanctions which helped stop a full-blown Russian invasion of Ukraine (and maybe more) were only possible because the European Union was able to bring together all of Europe’s leaders in a negotiation that included the United States. Britain helped convince other, more ambivalent Europeans to join the sanctions, which is part of why they succeeded.”

    You mean the illegal coup and attempt to install an illegal pro EU/NATO government on the doorstep of Russia that could have started WW3?!

    “that’s not how the world works: if you don’t try to shape it, then others will do so for you…….

    ……Really, that’s all Americans want from Britain”

    Yup!

    • wibbling

      The EU caused that conflict. NATO stopped it. When it came to actually defending it’;’s vaunted values, the EU whimpered and ran away – as all communists do. It hung Ukraine out to dry because it didn’t care about the consequences of it’s actions. The EU is the problem.

    • Foxall

      The Ukraine is Russia’s equivalent of Britain’s Gibraltar. Both are important militarily. Even Cameron wouldn’t roll over and let Spain take Gib back, yet the EU completely mis-read Putin to be meek as a kitten.

  • 4194

    Obama is concerned about progressing the (controversial)TTIP, and is especially pressing Europe militarily to do much more for its own region, already in the early stages of a piloted joint command by some EU States. The US contributes 75% of the NATO budget and wants to focus on the China challenge. Both these trade and military initiatives are directed to that purpose, and so probably views Brexit as problem for its Europe strategy.

  • FrankS2

    “But don’t underestimate his support — or the strength of his case”
    Fortunately, his supporters do not, mostly, have a vote in the referendum; and the strength of his case is not based on British interests.

  • Sir Derek Trotter OBE

    The Yanks are trying to get the Brits back for the bad advice Tony Blair gave them over Iraq and are trying to put us in as big a mess as to what happened to Uncle Sam in the Middle East and so have despatched the President to give a load of bull and dupe us lol

  • Conway

    Added to these challenges is a sudden abundance of homegrown populists who want to close borders and resurrect the protectionist walls that impoverished all of us in the first half of the 20th century.” That’s rich, given the protectionist nature of the USA. Closed borders are the only protection we have against these “challenges”. The USA is only concerned about itself. We need to look after our own interests in the same way.

  • Conway

    … stay inside, promote our joint Anglo-American values, don’t let the continent collapse into protectionism or authoritarianism, and don’t drift off into an isolationism that will end badly for us all.” This encapsulates your complete lack of understanding of the EU project. They don’t want Anglo-American values and they are naturally authoritarian. The only way we can combat this is by being outside. In case you’ve been asleep for the last 43 years, we have had NO success in trying to change it from within.

    • Trailblazer10

      Obama knows exactly what it is. He is a far leftist.

  • Shane

    No, I’m an American and Obama doesn’t speak for me on Brexit or anything else. Please take my word on that over a leftist from the Washington Post. Obama is the most divisive figure in American politics. It’s insanely ironic that after pushing America further part than ever he’s sticking his nose into Britain’s business in encouraging its participation in the European Union. Ignore him and count the days until he leaves office like many of us in America are. Know that there are many over here who, unlike our President, respect Britain’s sovereignty.

  • Trailblazer10

    This is a leftist article spewing the expected bile.

    “shared by liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans alike” The Uniparty, currently destroying America.

    • thomas_paine2

      so not your style, mmmm?

  • thomas_paine2

    >>>>>>>Thursday, June 23rd : your local polling staion : 07:00 a:m : Vote LEAVE X <<<<<<<

  • mahatmacoatmabag

    Obama is desperate that the UK should remain in the failed economically & military weak proto-socialist vassal state of the socialist experiment gone wrong known as the EU or more correctly the EUSSR.

    Obama’s world vision is the demise of free enterprise, the supremacy of rigid state control over the population & destruction of the values that made America a great nation. In 7 years he has accomplished his plan to reduce America to a pitiful state that parallels the 13 years of socialist tyranny that Blair & Brown inflicted on the UK. The UK is not at all like his new buddies Cuba & Iran but Obama sees the UK remaining entrapped in the EU as the best chance for the demise of Western democracy in Europe as the leading ideology on the planet that will be able to withstand the march of militant Islam & hard line dictatorships like Russia, China, North Korea & Cuba.

    Obama has been the hurricane that has left a trail of devastation in the USA & the free world, that will be his lasting legacy – devastation not great deeds.

    • Zaba

      ‘fundamental change’

      • Kasperlos

        …that some of us never believed in.’

        • Zaba

          Who knew he meant islam?

  • Sgtsnuffy

    WHOA NOW , JUST HOLD ON THERE PARDNER HE DON’T SPEAK FOR AMERICA, HE SPEAKS FOR HIMSELF AND HIS HANDLERS FROM IRAN . REMEMBER HIS SECOND SQUEEZE IS VALERIE JARRETT AN IRANIAN, BORN TO PARENTS WHO ARE MEMBERS OF THE MOSLEM BROTHERHOOD . JUST LIKE HILLARY CLINTONS NUMBER ONE AID HUMA ABEDIN .

    • Zaba

      caps or not, spot on!

  • Zaba

    barack hussein’s interest is increasing the muzlim presence EVERYWHERE!

  • Zaba

    …OBAMA: ISLAM ‘WOVEN INTO THE FABRIC OF OUR COUNTRY SINCE FOUNDING’

    Obama seems significantly more comfortable with this characterization of the historic role of Islam

    than he is with the non-fictional actual historic role of Christianity and Judaism in the American founding.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/02/20/obama-islam-woven-into-the-fabric-of-our-country-since-founding/

  • Sipu

    “Isolation is much less dangerous than the danger of being dragged into wars which do not concern us.” Lord Salisbury,1896.

    • Joe Bloggs

      Absolutely right – and it is thanks to Obama that the killing of American kids finally came to an end. God Help us all if Trump or Cruz get into office. I think it will take several years for most Americans and the rest of the world to realize just what a great and intelligent President he has been. Wake up America – its not a game show. .

      • Trailblazer10

        You have been misinformed. Trump is a non interventionist. Build up the military so nobody will mess with us. Defense only.

        Clinton is a warmonger.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    Britons should base their decisions on what is best for Britain, not what is convenient for American politicians.

  • Birdy

    “Really, that’s all Americans want from Britain too: stay inside, promote our joint Anglo-American values, don’t let the continent collapse into protectionism or authoritarianism, and don’t drift off into an isolationism that will end badly for us all.”
    That’s one way of putting it – here’s another:
    ‘While, obviously, no American would dream of putting up with the nonsense Britain does from the EU, we’re worried that this ghastly organisation might morph into something even worse of you leave, thereby having a slightly negative impact on US interests. Therefore, we’d be grateful if you’d say in, no matter what the cost to your political and economic interests, as we believe this will be of marginal benefit to us Americans.’
    Who could possibly refuse such a persuasive request?

  • wibbling

    Tell you what: when the US takes orders from Mexico and Brazil *then* Obama can preach his gibberish at us.

    The EU is isolationist. It is destroying cultures. It is what is making the world unsafe. It is crushing democracy, freedom and wealth. it is creating unemployment and unhappiness.

    It is ironic: the US rejects the very thing it demands for the US. It is time that Lefties over there stopped thinking they matter. We must leave the EU, the EU must end.

    You article sows how little you understand the crushing communism of the EU. It is time you stopped pontificating.

  • Lew Perry

    I find the opinions of Ms. Applebaum too paternalistic, not only to the British electorate, but also to the ‘protectionist or authoritarian’ continental electorate.

    We all know that the USA has a vested interest in a form of United Europe since the time of Woodrow Wilson. A desire which was reactualised in the 40’s with the creation of the American Committee on United Europe.

    Since the ratification of the WTO’s Tecnical Barriers to Trade Agreement the EU has effectively relinquished the ability to make the regulations for the single market (EEA) to global standard-setters like Unece, meaning that countries like Norway, who kept their seat at the top table, can shape regulations before they reach the EU and UK who have no option but to rubber-stamp them.
    http://leavehq.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=183

    Instead of being isolationist, many “leavers” actually want britain to exert influence at the global top tables – where it really matters – instead of losing access to them in favour the EU, whose comunity method misrepresents the wishes of the national electorates.

    I think is time that britain reengaged directly with globalisation, reestablished the powers to its parliament and started to set the rules of the common market via Efta/EEA. Here is the plan: http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

    Just ignore the incompetent and self-serving blairites, who out of their stupidity, have delivered the mess we live in today: Barbarity in the MENA due to their misguided interventionism, an ‘european demographic winter’ due to their neomalthusianism and massive youth unemployment due to the euro.

  • Foxall

    No mention of TTIP? That must surely rank high on Obama’s shopping list on this visit.

    • In2minds

      And we can be certain that while Obama is working on TTIP his equally annoying wife will visit a school in the East end of London to tell all the pupils ‘they are beautiful’, what a dreadful couple!

  • Old Fox

    This really is ludicrous, last gasp stuff. We don’t “influence” Europe from within; we don’t shape the world, we ourselves are “influenced” and “shaped”. What difference did EU membership make to sanctions towards Putin? Are you really saying, Ms Applebaum, that our subjection to this mess of red tape had any effect whatsoever on the diplomatic behaviour of Germany? Hasn’t the EU snapped its fat fingers in Putin’s face? Hasn’t it semi-provoked the Ukraine crisis? Hasn’t it proved weak kneed in response? And how did our presence “at the table” prevent, modify or improve ANY of that? We will “influence” Europe only if we have the guts to pull out and regain our autonomy.

    • In2minds

      The EU – “Hasn’t it semi-provoked the Ukraine crisis”? – Yes its has.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Indeed, as we have seen we have little or no influence with the EU , for it has not changed from the path it has been set on right from the start.

      There is another form of influence, perhaps a more powerful from of influence than our politicians being beaten down in closed EU meetings, the influence you have by setting an example . Rather than being locked into a system where ideas never get to be tried because the EU bureaucracy ruled them out, if new ideas were tried in a nation which proved to be successful, then other nation’s Governments aren’t going to decline to implement those policies at home, to improve their electorates lives just because it hadn’t been sanctioned by some super national body. No, if they have a desire to get re-elected they will try those policies in their own countries , perhaps adding their own twist to them to make those policies more in tune with their own culture.

      It is this way that Europe developed , competing nations taking ideas from each other , the development of Europe wasn’t under some benign bureaucracy ,for at the time of Europe’s development , that structure was being implemented by the Ottoman Empire, and they were in terminal decline.

  • fred finger

    This author; what part of EUSSR does she not understand?

  • Blindsideflanker

    Unless European values are represented by Hitler or Stalin’s 20th century block mentality, I do not see how the EU can represent what I consider to be British if not European values of a liberal democracy. In what way can the EU represent liberal democratic values?

  • In2minds

    “populists who want to close borders and resurrect the protectionist walls that impoverished all of us in the first half of the 20th century” –

    ‘Impoverished all of us’, that’s impossible, the whole drift of the article is rubbish.

  • CO Jones

    The US presumably wants the UK to withdraw from the EU. This article, and Obama’s article in the Daily Telegraph, are clearly intended to rile the people of the UK so that that they will vote accordingly.

    What other reason can there possibly be for the ridiculous arguments and the blatant hypocrisy inherent in both of them?

  • Anna Bananahammok

    Since 2008, Obama has been correct about the following policies:

  • 100

    M’s Applebaums understanding of the intricacies of the EU and it’s relationship with the UK are on a level with Obama: CLUELESS.

    • zappata

      Of course,but,with Anne, it’s always about Russia.

  • goodsoldier

    Hillary Clinton is certainly not necessarily going to be the next President, as Janet Daley declares. Many Americans would love a President Trump. Janet’s refined sensibilities force her to prefer a criminal to a loud-mouthed New Yorker.

  • Jacobi

    But Obama’s foreign policy is it !

    Obama is here for a reason . He, and so much of the USA establishment, particularly the
    arms industry lot who are the real controllers, see UK as a means of progressing his foreign policy

    As for NATO, FORMED to counter the Marxist Socialist Communist Soviet Union in 1949, it has long since outlived its need for the simple reason that the Soviet Union has gone. NATO needs to be replaced by a new alliance which takes into account the dangers of the 21st century.

    Now Russia is not one of these and when will people wake up and realise this. Yes Putin is a bit miffed that the USA and NATO moved into the Baltic when post Soviet Russia was in confusion and ignored a non-military expansion pact which was already agreed in principle. Well can you blame him, or any other Russian leader?

    The danger now, in the 21st century is Islam and a very different world -wide military alliance is required for that.

    The trouble is such an alliance will not necessarily be in line with the wishes of the USA
    arms lot, who control Obama.

  • goodsoldier

    The Spectator staff care mainly about Party politics within the Conservative Party rather than the potential horror of Britain as a minor region in an Islamic EU with Turkey and North Africa as future partners. I guess the feel personally very safe and comfortable in their offices.

  • John Hawkins Totnes

    More of the same old stuff..
    Life is a great advednture for all of us as individuals, as communities and nations. Cameron, the eu, and now Obama think of us as economic units to be herded by those who ‘know what is best for us’ and controlled by the health and safety executive who will eliminate all risk and pain.

    • Blindsideflanker

      And that is frightening, for they believe in the infallibility of the Brussels bureaucrat.

  • zanzamander

    Obama stopped over here from his trip to Saudi Arabia. The media and internet in US is going mad about the role Saudi Arabia played in 9/11 attacks. There are swathes of paragraphs that have been redacted from the 9/11 commission’s report about this. Saudi Arabia threatened US with all sorts of things it will do to US if any of this gets out (including no doubt, more terrorist attacks).

    Did Obama say a word about this to the Saudis? If he really wanted to make the world a safer place, why does he not take countries that sponsor Islamic terror: Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkey etc to task? Instead he bows to them and hands over $trillions in arms and “aid”.

    Yet he is here, shamelessly lecturing us on what is good for us.

  • Denis_Cooper

    Obama is no friend of the British people, whatever he may now pretend in newspaper articles;
    he is doing this to oblige Cameron, who increasingly looks like an enemy of the British people.

  • zappata

    Yes, we know you hate Russia,Anne.You have told us a least a thousand times before.You get it into everything you write….but that’s what you are paid to do,isn’t it?

    • Kasperlos

      It’s her bread – read money – and butter read fetish. Read her bio, her CV. She’s a shill for the neocon AIPAC matrix.

  • Marvin

    Maybe it’s Kenya!

  • somewhereinthesouth

    Will Obama be inviting , Dave to the White House to lecture the US public on why they shouldn’t voted for Donald Trump because his policies will lead to US isolationism ? Of course not . Oddly , the United States has become MORE isolationist since Obama took over . So its about rich for him to claim we should do what HE wont . He recently also criticised Cameron [ as a “friend” I presume ] for everything going T*tis up in Libya but oddly he refuses to take ANY responsibility for the state of affairs in the Middle East which has led to mass migration , since he did nothing much to intervene in Libya and worse HE failed to act to prevent Syria and Iraq from descending into chaos and criminal ad religiously inspired sectarian bloodshed . Indeed he encouraged the Arab ” spring”. Meanwhile Iran has been let off the leash and Russia is becoming more belligerent by the day . Heaven knows what the Israel [an ally of the US apparently] thinks of Obama’s policy . Will Obama [ as a “friend”] be encouraging them to pool their sovereignty with their neighbours too ?

    The EU is an undemocratic and technocratic construct which is doing nothing of note to improve its own democracy, competitiveness , nothing to improve world security [it may actually be making things worse – look at the Ukraine ] and it is doing even less in adding to the scale of world economic growth , BUT apparently, in order to shore up this failing institution, we should remain members – despite our not using the Euro and the damage and financial burden this organisation is inflicting on the UK, as well as other members such as Italy and Greece. [ The later is soon to be in need of yet another German inspired and economically damaging “bail out” to save the Euro .The holes in the Greek and Euro boat remain however ].

    No , No , No.

  • Wee Mental Davie

    Without any action, we are about 50 to 100 years away from an islamic majority vote in major towns across the UK. London is the beginning of this with the muslim who seems set to be mayor. If we remain in the EU it will be game over for our freedom at some point in the future. What ever the big plan is, obummer is signed up to it, and has been since he took office. Something is happening in the world and few are privy to the real agenda. I find the lengths taken to keep us in the EU quite frightning. I doubt Cameron has been included and is just another puppet. The fact this failed useless man, has come over here to tell us to remain in the EU, should encourage more to vote to leave. With every stunt these complete roasters pull, only makes me want to leave more. God help us all. We need to waken up and forget these pathetic politicians and go with our heart.

    • Adrian Wainer

      Muslims do not have to be a majority in the UK in order for Western liberal democracy to become unworkable in Britain. On the present track Britain will either face balkization or, extensive Islamization or civil War within twenty years.

  • Hugh1

    Your saying that to promote Anglosphere values the UK must sacrifice those values and remain a member of the EU? Nice logic and no thanks.

    • Adrian Wainer

      Correct since the article is bizarre garbage.

  • jeffersonian

    ‘..if all you want is that the European continent remain relatively competitive and open to trade, including British trade — then you have to push other Europeans in that direction from within European institutions, as you have been doing so successfully for the past several decades.’

    Such a feckless lie: a recent study showed that the UK is the single most ‘defeated’ country in the EU. No other country loses as many votes on key issues as the UK. The truth of the matter is that we have no serious influence on the direction of the EU at all.

    And ‘saving’ Europe from authoritarianism (even if we could, which I doubt) is not worth it if the prize is the complete destruction of British sovereignty.

    • Matthe

      actually the UK has just as much influence as any other country in the EU.

  • Suriani

    Seemingly Russia is the new Yellow Peril. Beware Fu-Man Pu-Tin. Americans and their paranoia.

    • Seytom

      Ukrainians and their paranoia. Georgians and their paranoia. Does Russia have a neighbor that isn’t frightened of at least a partial Russian land grab?

  • Adrian Wainer

    “Really, that’s all Americans want from Britain too: stay inside, promote our joint Anglo-American values”,.

    Is this a President Obama in an alternative Universe that Ms Applebaum is referring to?

    • Gregory Mason

      That’s right Britain. Promote your values by sacrificing them!

  • MummyofPrudence

    “If Mr Obama wants to bring up the U.S. involvement in the war, it might be timely to remind him that in 1939 the U.S. State department policy was to use the upcoming war as a way of smashing the UK’s influence in the world. When, in desperation, Britain asked for help they used Lend Lease to financially cripple the UK whilst palming off old and sub standard naval assets.

    “And might I also remind Mr. Obama that after he entered office in 2008 his State Department was very clear as to his attitude to the UK. They said there was ‘nothing special about Britain’.

    “‘You’re just the same as the 190 other countries in the world. You shouldn’t expect special treatment,’ he told us.

    “With that in mind, might I kindly suggest that Mr. Obama’s interference in our democracy is unwanted, unwelcome and his historical inaccuracy is deeply insulting to the UK.” Mike Hookem MEP.

    • DDownie

      I had never heard of Mike Hookem MEP, so have just looked him up.

      Given that he was in the Royal Engineers for 9 years I am surprised and disappointed that he can slander the US in this way. There was huge resistance in the US to becoming involved in what they thought was an ‘European’ war. Roosevelt did the best he could. Eventually the Axis powers sought them out. Over 180,000 US servicemen died in the Atlantic/European theatre. Both in the First and Second World War we could not have won the wars without the Alliance. Even now the US maintains 30000 troops in Europe.

      They are our key allies.

      They want us to remain in the EU.

      By the way it is scarcely credible that politicians such as that appalling turncoat Johnson should put the argument that the US wouldn’t be a member of something like the EU. The US is already a continent wide superpower; it wants us to be part of a continent-wide alliance so that we can deal, however badly, with the worldwide issue that are coming up. As the majority of the US voters eventually found out you cannot ignore the bad guys. They will seek you out. The answer to the bad guys is a strong western alliance. Disunity is weakness. Which is why such nice people as Putin (and le Pen) would like to see us out. Putin or Obama? No contest.

      • MummyofPrudence

        I think it is because he was in the forces that he does not view the actions of the USA now, or historically, through rose tinted spectacles, but rather he sees that they act, as all nations do, in their own interest. Had there been no benefit whatever to the USA in any of their military operations and allegiances, they would not have made them. That is not to dismiss a dependable, democratic member of the Anglo-sphere out of hand, however.

        But America of all countries should understand the importance of representative democracy and the sovereign nation:

        “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government.”

        The USA may well be a continent wide superpower, but it is not made up of a mixture of ancient, previously sovereign democracies, former Communist countries and brand new states, all with different historic, cultural and linguistic differences. It may have states that contain more Germans or Italians or Irish, but they are now united by a universal language and an alleigance to the flag and the nation. In three hundred years Europe may well be just like America, although it will be an Islamic rather than a Christian nation, but it is not like it now. There is no representative democracy at the European level, it is more like Soviet Russia, governed by an elite. As Jean Claude Juncker said when he was elected to office: “We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don’t understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back.” And those of us who favour Brexit do not wish to be part of that kind of a dictatorship, neither, I suspect would most Americans.

        • zappata

          Juncker is doing a rather good impression of Boris Yeltsin but with an infusion of fine cognac rather than neat vodka.

  • Sanctimony

    America (apart from Canada) has only one border; with Mexico…. once the USA starts treating those people with equanimity and respect, they can come over here and tell us how to deal with Turks and assorted Eastern Europeans…. Otherwise Sunshine, get back on Airforce One with your squaw and p**s off back to your reservation in the Adirondacks…

    • Barbouze

      Obama is on the side of those Mexicans who often have more rights and privileges than Americans. Sounds like you believe everything the leftist media tell you.

  • Adrian Wainer

    ‘The Future Must Not Belong To Those Who Slander the Prophet of Islam’
    Barack Obama:

    https://pp.vk.me/c633723/v633723700/6c24/UdJMJmdAPUw.jpg

  • MummyofPrudence

    “I love that word ‘relationship’. Covers all manner of sins, doesn’t it? I fear that this has become a bad relationship; a relationship based on the President taking exactly what he wants and casually ignoring all those things that really matter to Britain. We may be a small country, but we’re a great one, too.

    “The country of Shakespeare, Churchill, the Beatles, Sean Connery, Harry Potter. David Beckham’s right foot. David Beckham’s left foot, come to that. And a friend who bullies us is no longer a friend. And since bullies only respond to strength, from now onward I will be prepared to be much stronger. And the President should be prepared for that.” Love Actually.

    • Seytom

      I missed the bullying part. How does Obama expressing his opinion constitute bullying? Or is this (understandable) resentment left over from the Bush years?

      • MummyofPrudence

        Americans will not give up legislation from 1933 “Buy American”. Obama wants us to stay in the EU so that American businesses can have access to our markets while America will not, in reality, give European companies access to American markets.

        He is coercing us, if you prefer that, so Americans have free access to our markets, particularly within the NHS. British tax payers will be held to even greater ransom than currently, in order to pay for a “free at the point of need” health service (which idea is also being eroded by suggestions the obese and smokers ought to pay. ) This will not only be to cover the vast billions we spend already in treating EU citizens and health tourists from the rest of the world (eg Nigerians who come over for their £120k a year treatment for Aids and whom the left, including the “Conservative” party regard as entitled to that treatment, because it would be mean to predominantly black, gay members of the world’s scrounging community, to deny it) but also to pay the profits of American, private companies. And don’t forget that companies with share holders are legally obliged to make a profit for their investors, they cannot deliberately engage in business that will never turn a profit.

        That is just one example, and I readily admit that it is only possible because markets and companies have been introduced to a system which is paid for out of taxation. But the EU does not allow re-nationalisation, because nationalisation is a form of protectionism. So either way we are shafted.

  • ddhove

    Applebaum ignores too many simple truths and falls back on tired assumptions about Brexit and its supporters. Unification is not necessary for (nor is it any guarantee of) cooperation or influence (see NATO, NAFTA, The Commonwealth or the relationship between the US and the UK); belief in a country’s sovereign integrity and right to democratic governance are not isolationist ideals; and ‘Brexit’ is not a vote for no relationship with the EU. To most of us that will vote OUT, we do so in order to trigger a process of real renegotiation and enable us to redefine the relationship we have to the EU after decades of an experiment that became distorted out of all recognition. It is clear (as Cameron’s recent failed ‘efforts’ at negotiation proved) that without sending a decisive message that the UK no longer wants to be at the receiving end of diktats and policies which are not in its interests, we will continue to be the second largest contributor to an organisation over which we have scant influence or control as it continues to undermine the centuries worth of rights, rules and processes which have evolved here instead. Unlike the IN campaign, which has scare-mongered and focused entirely on negative campaigning, OUT represents optimism and a positive opportunity to improve the UK’s relationship with the EU rather than sticking to the unsatisfactory status quo.

  • Lady Magdalene

    Leaving the EU doesn’t make us isolationist.

    We want to leave so we can rejoin the global community as an independent, Sovereign democracy.

  • Steve Delahunty

    Listen to Sir James Goldsmith for inspiration… Referendum Party Broadcast 15 April 1997 https://youtu.be/-dxZ1MoyXNA via @YouTube

  • Tony Buchanan

    “Britain will be at the back of the queue” says the American President. What a pity British air and army personnel weren’t ‘at the back of the queue’ during the first Gulf War, or Iraq War or the Afghanistan conflict. No, Mr President, that “back of the queue” was usually occupied by the advanced liberal democracies of the European continent you’re so fond of.

    If Brexit does occur and we are downgraded by the American Foreign Office I just hope we remember to keep guys dressed in khaki and navy blue at the back of the queue next time. Let the Finns or the Belgians pick up the tab. As the son and grandson of servicemen I felt roundly insulted by his comments today.

    Cheers buddy.

  • Sat in a Sangar. It’s 1975

    You should not underestimate the distrust of and downright dislike of America that runs deep in the British soul. I think Mr President may have tipped the decision of some ‘undecideds’ into an ‘out’ vote.

    • antoncheckout

      It’s not that we dislike America: but that we mistrust the US world viewpoint, which sometimes seems rather solipsistic and stereotyped.
      To that Obama adds his own brand of racist anglophobia.

    • Richard

      Some of us learned the lessons of Suez, I see. Well done.

  • Sanctimony

    Gulf War, Iraq War, Afghanistan… doesn’t this Kenyan dingbat understand who has stood beside the USA in these futile adventures….

    The schmuck is too thick to realise that the French etc are all cheese-eating surrender monkeys…

  • Matthe

    the EU would be great without the enlargements since 1973.

    • Richard

      Those enlargements were Blair’s doing.

  • Augustus

    “Il ne peut y avoir de choix démocratique contre les traités européens” (There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties)
    -Jean-Claude Juncker, EU Commission President.

    The European Union has leaders who are unelected, it has a dodgy legislative procedure when approving its budget, its agendas lack real democratic mandates, and it has the transparency of a mud bath. And this is supposed to be a shining example of undisputed democratic credentials to the rest of the world?

  • Harald Harster

    Wow, what a cynical liar Applebaum is. From peddling the myth that Russia is responsible foe the new “Cold War” and is actively undermining western institutions, to cynically pretending that the EU actually benefits the citizens of its vassal states, applebaum won the high score in shamelessly lying to the goyim. Even if Obama was in favor of the Brexit, it still wouldn’t be proper for him to go there and wag his blood-covered finger at a foreign people. Shame on him, and shame on applebaum.

  • antoncheckout

    A very blinkered and over-hasty piece. And another bit of scaremongering. If we leave the EU and regain our historic sovereignty, she knows what ‘America’ will think about it.
    Bless.

  • Dryermartinithanyours

    This piece oversteps on every front and betrays our interests. Russia should be a great European ally but this would be a zero sum outcome for our American allies, hence we have not only provoked them in their legitimate interests since the end of the Soviet regime but demonized Russian culture since forever. Using this bogeyman and that of a free trade agreement with the US shows just how empty the US position really is. Isolationism? Or lack of a unified bloc to protect Israel?

  • ChiGal

    Annie’s by-line says it all: she writes for the Washington Post – the ultimate “inside the beltway” publication. Like the NYTs, it is the most unrepresentative of American opinion ever. (Why does the Spectator hire such hacks?) If most Americans don’t care, it is because they don’t know – MSM outlets like hers do not cover the story. Obama will never represent the majority of American opinion. What he does represent is the cultural elite like Annie and its extraordinary, incalculable hubris.

  • Terence Hale

    Britain can’t bank on America. Mr. Obama is himself open to critic for leaving a democratic mess over his successor. A scoundrel or a clown, Hobson’s choice.

  • Doc S.africa

    The EU is a demographic disaster with a fuse attached and socialism with an open border policy cannot survive in current format, as it doesn’t have enough money to pay for it.
    The EU needs money and they want it from all countries including the UK.
    Obama is all for socialism without boundaries and with open borders.
    His vision is a globalized socialist world with destruction of classic western democratic values.
    The fact Obama wants the UK in, is enough evidence to do the opposite.

    • amanuenensi

      You are clearly an economic illiterate. The EU is the richest trade bloc on earth, and the ECB is the strongest bank on earth. Both of them can underwrite whatever they wants for as long as they want. Unless you still think a dollar is backed by an ounce of gold somewhere?

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Socialism, lol.

  • Doc S.africa

    The other fascinating hypocrisy is that when Netanyahu came to Washington invited by congress, he was condemned by Obama for interference in US affairs, despite the fact that the matter was an existential issue for israel.
    In this case Obama is openly interfering in the UK, and saying that friends should be allowed to express their honest opinion.
    Really?

    • amanuenensi

      He was asked and said he would let Netanyahu comment on that. In this case Brexit has been saying that the US would support leave, he has a right to point out that is utter tosh. If the NZ, Australian, Canadian and US leaders say it is tosh, it probably is….tosh. Grow up.

  • Kasperlos

    First, Applebaum’s long globalist credentials are there for all to see. She’s been on their payroll for decades. Her affiliations are pure globalist. Second, Applebaum arrogantly – as is the way with the self-assumed elites – states that Obama speaks for America and thus twists the meaning that he speaks for all Americans. Not true. And that’s more than a good guess, Even in this chapter of globalism most Americans would abhor hitching itself to some murky institution of un-elected gray men and women representing their hidden paymasters, and thereby ditching the memory of countless millions who fought for and to retain America’s independence. The arrogance. Like a virile disease, It’s time to fight it. Since Obama invoked war as a reason to say no to Brexit: As it comes time to vote in June, let the British remember this salient year of commemoration of the centenary of the Great War. It can be said with assurance that the men who perished, from all sides, doubtfully fought for a future idea of the likes of Berlaymont, of the overpaid weasel parasites who meddle in the lives of 500 million. We need not, nor wish any more such wars, but neither do we need the juggernaut of what the EU project became, viz. a bridge too far.

    • amanuenensi

      ER, we live on a globe remember. Oh, i understand the rest of the world doesn’t matter. And please stop speaking “on behalf” of my now passed fighting ancestors. You did not know them, and from the way you think, they would not have liked you at all. What they liked was democracy peace and union. So lets just let the British people decide, and then, please will the losers just shut up and go home.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        The nature of referendums is they divide, not unite.

        That’s one reason Thatcher, for instance, opposed them.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Good thing she’s not promoting the Tories then

  • amanuenensi

    On Brexit, Obama speaks for the US. Self evident it seems to me. The putative leaders of the UK 2020, PM Johnson, Chancellor Farage, and the rest of that sorry bunch, might not like to hear it, but really, who cares?

  • English Patriot

    Who cares what the Yanks think about Brexit? They shafted us over the empire and Suez so if they don’t like Britain leaving the EU then f*ck them.

    • Richard

      They did those things in order to secure their global dominance. The long-term effect of what they did is now starting to become apparent.

    • Alex

      Hate EU, hate USA, who are we going to be left to be allies with.. China?

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Russia.

      • English Patriot

        We don’t need “allies” who shaft us whenever it’s politically convenient. Britain should be an independent, self confident power.

  • COGNITIO

    I’ve no doubt that Britain staying in the EU is good for the EU and good for the United States. However that isn’t the issue. The issue is instead the fact that membership of the EU is bad for Britain and the British people. Whilst obviously having the UK on the inside can help ameliorate bad decisions by the EU it can’t prevent them. The UK does not have enough political power to reform current policies which are currently failing or to bring into effect policies which do work. Our membership of the EU is akin to being trapped in the backseat of a car where your sobre but the 2 people in the front of the car are both drunk and are determined to drive the car recklessly and pointlessly at speed. It doesn’t matter how sobre and correct you are you can’t stop the inevitable crash because you’re not in the position to steer the car. The US doesn’t trust the EU to find its own backside with both hands. It believes the UK can help the EU in that task. However that belief is a fallacy. The reality of UK political influence in the EU was splendidly demonstrated by how little reform David Cameron actually achieved in his negotiations. In the medium and long term BREXIT would be best for Britain and best for the EU. British membership influence within the EU counts for little however the shock of Britain leaving the EU might actually force some of our idiot European neighbours to produce some real reform.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Britain? Well, let’s see, after at least Scotland leaves if you win… as you ignore why Britain lacks influence – we’ve alienated countries who should be our allies, and the British right refuse to engage in the EU Parliament with other moderate right wing parties, etc.

      Cameron did a lot, given he tried the hard way to change the basics.

      The shock would be to the English economy. Your not counting trade…

      • COGNITIO

        No Britain lacks influence because it doesn’t want to do what the EU wants to do. The UK is the one voice of sanity within the mental asylum that is the EU. The alternative is to follow the leadership of Merkel into the dissolution of the British state.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          That’s a plain conspiracy theory.

  • mortsnerd

    Supranational organizations like the UN and the EU are dysfunctional elitist (of the catastrophically suicidal Davos/PPE/Rome 5th-century variety) cliques whose minions are utterly incapable of responding to the societal and strategic threats to civilization in the 21st century. What we need are ad hoc coalitions of the willing. In the West, I can, gallingly, only see such a willing attitude in national/regional/municipal entities dominated by populist or Christian-based parties, or in small supranational groups like the Visegrad Four (of whom Ms Apple must surely be acquainted!).
    So I say, if the West needs to be defended, roll on Brexit and lets cook up some popcorn and watch the EU do its 1991 thang.

    Anything to get the sleepwalking New Class out of our way so we can fight with both hands.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Ah, the evils of things like UNAIDS…sigh.

      As you want to roll back to 1791…. oh, and import an ideology from Cambodia…

  • John M

    Ms Applebaum,
    Considering the considerable political and military support the UK has provided your country when you decided to go to war not only in Libya, but the Afghan War, the Iraq War and also the first Gulf War, I think your President has got a lot of guts sauntering over here and not only telling us how to vote, but also some of the thinly veiled threats he loaded into his speech yesterday.

    Some “friend” …

    • Barbouze

      your country

      Anyone know the country Applebaum is loyal to. Poland? No, not since her husband’s corrupt party got tossed out in last year’s election. USA? Neocons are anything but loyal to the US. Maybe Israel? I’m not sure. I don’t think she really has a country, just an ideology.

      • zappata

        One of Stalin’s rootless cosmopolitans,for sure.

    • marvin

      Some ‘friend’ to get us involved with civil wars that we had nothing to do with! If that is a ‘friend’ I will go with my enemies, thanks!

  • oldwatcher

    The special relationship ended at the end of world war 2.
    When the USA Marshall plan allowed Germany to get away with war reparations to the UK.
    Great Britain was left to pay a fortune to the USA for the help we received as the USA waited three years to come to finish off the war in Europe. Becoming a rich nation on our backs.
    Britain has never recovered from paying off the debt while Germany prospered over the years with the help of the USA who shifted German specialists in nuclear war to the USA to develope the first Nuclear bomb.
    Special relationship that has become something that sticks in the throat of those who knew what really happened all those years ago now.

    • Richard

      Before the War the US was preparing plans to invade Canada and Britain. It was only the invasion of Pearl Harbour that made them shelve those plans. In the same way, the US only dropped its support of the IRA after the Twin Towers episode.

      The last time there was a special relationship was in 1776. Whatever America does is out of self-interest. Only imbeciles can possibly think otherwise.

    • marvin

      You forgot to mention, that wheras the EU headed by the German Ambassador, made many threats to Greece to repay the debts that Greece owed the EU – Germany has never repaid any of its war debts, Germany has resorted to delaying tactics repeatedly and the debt still exists today!.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        “wheras the EU headed by the German Ambassador”

        Nope. That was certain capitalists within the EU, but the options outside were even worse, so…

  • walworthianus

    Well said, Anne – a decent factual piece.

    As often – the Brexiteer reaction is fascinating – the curious mashup of selective history (or near history, or faux history) and inchoate dreams of some mythical future ‘independence’. They have been talking this sort of stuff to themselves for 25 years and more, undisturbed by the illumination of fact and challenge; now that that the stone has been lifted and their wriggling little world is exposed to sunlight and fresh air, they hate it, but – sorry – this is where the real world comes butting in.

    • mortsnerd

      I feel a nosebleed coming on.

      • Brigantian

        You need Brexit: the instant way to reduce blood pressure.

    • Richard

      Good metaphorical language you use, but entirely devoid of any content.

      It is interesting, the huge support among the Left for “freedom” and “independence” in all cases excepting that of their own country. Then it is “Little Englander-ism” and similar. To use your type of metaphorical language, it is as Orwell put it: “England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during God save the King than of stealing from a poor box.”

      • Larry Bond

        How real that shame is, of the whole of our civilization. Just look at Swinburne writing poems about the “sinless” peoples of the Americas as though the place was some Hesperides; or the view that Carthage was somehow the victim of the diabolic Romans. If those blighter weren’t throwing children into fires, they were going into frenzies about gods whose images they fashioned as frightful as possible.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        There simply isn’t the fear of the Other among the left, rather. England, a region of Britain, which is my country…

        (I identify with London more strongly than I do England, if you want to talk regions!)

    • stuartMilan

      for someone who claims a factual basis for your point of view, your comment is revealingly light on facts, and heavy on rhetoric

      • walworthianus

        And – if I were to ask them, or you, what majority is needed in the Council of Ministers for a proposition to pass under QMV, what answers would I get, do you think? Knowlegable, factual ones??

        • stuartMilan

          Knowledgeable

        • antoncheckout

          “for a proposition to pass”
          A proposition from which source? EC or member state? Two entirely different QMV rules (see November 2014 ‘new voting procedure’.)
          That you put it so vaguely suggests you’re not au fait with the practice.
          The new ruling is easily researched, so you haven’t much excuse.

          In practice, it’s just a lot of unedifying arm-twisting and horse-trading.
          And speaking of horses, the legislation ends up looking like a horse designed by a committee of énarques.

          We’re not going to need it much longer anyway, thank God.

          • walworthianus

            γ+ as an answer. You show some knowledge, but state no facts. In a full answer, please refer to the blocking mechanism, and also the possibility of using the old system. The question asked for facts – a rant about énarques is irrelevant. In the alternative, a link to the Consilium web page would be helpful.

    • marvin

      The majority of Brexit supporters are well educated and knowledgeable on politics. They are also in general a well balanced majority of the people and would enjoy reading the reasoning behind your response.

      • newminster

        You must be joking!!
        Well-educated I will be prepared to grant you but “knowledgeable on politics”? I have never heard so much misinformed half-baked drivel in my life as the outpourings of the average Brexiteer. They don’t have clue about the EU or how it works; they don’t understand the practical implications of leaving.
        Half of them don’t know the difference between the ECJ and the ECHR, a difference which is crucial to at least half their argument. They have never heard of subsidiarity or proportionality because if they did they would be asking their MP why the UK regularly goes further in implementing EU Directives than the Directive demands — though their MP probably wouldn’t know what they are talking about if they did.
        And those are just the simple things!

      • Leon Wolfeson

        “The majority of Brexit supporters are well educated and knowledgeable on politics.”

        Prove it.

        • Tom Brownbill

          “Prove it”
          So perhaps you can prove it, that the majority of Brexit supporters are not well educated and knowledge on politics. Please feel free to enlighten us then with your superior knowledge. Still waiting for you to define the word “plenty” and then prove it.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Funny, I didn’t say anything of the sort about Brexit supporters, or the rest. Keep waiting!

  • marvin

    Well, who would expect anything different! Obama’s pals probably lectured him before he left the States! Considering that the US gains £Billions every year from the EU! The ultra wealthy US landowners have stakes in Europe! The EU pay out farming subsidies – but not just to EU Member countries! Tate and Lyle for example, now American owned – are paid almost an annual £ONE BILLION alone! Such subsidies to huge corporations prevents our own British farmers from gaining a fair deal – and maintaining prices for British produce at an unfair high level. The money that the States receives from the EU is the money from EU workers! There are several examples of dubious US and EU deals occurring on a daily basis! The proposed, highly controversial TTIP trade agreements favour the US far more than they do the UK! It is not a Brexit that the States fears – that is of little consequence to Obama – but a complete collapse of the EU would be something that he would not be able to lie about in order to hide the fact that the US is nowhere near as great as Obama’s propaganda states!

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Oh, so British farmers have too much…right. TTIP is beloved of the right, the opposition is at the EU level, from the left…etc.

  • Erick Blair

    It is up to the British. I think it is fair to say that close to 100% of Americans couldn’t care less.

    • Toby

      I noticed the French, generally, do not care less either.

  • AWoLsco

    Would anyone like to see some, in fact now many, posts deleted, censored by the
    Spectator?
    It might be interesting to see what is censored in this supposed age of free speech, and work out why this is being done.

    What are ‘ they’ , the ‘establishment’, afraid of?

    Just click on AWoLsco, which will take you to Disqus, and then click on
    ‘profile’ which you will take you to the latest posts, and then scan down
    looking for a nice distinctive red flag, euphemistically titled ‘ pending’ or
    ‘detected as spam’. you’ll see a lot of red flags.

    Sure, there’s a lot of amateurish junk there, but in amongst it, is the odd wee
    gem….or so I like to imagine.

  • AWoLsco

    Would anyone like to see some, in fact, now many, posts deleted, censored by the Spectator?

    It mightbe interesting to see what is censored in this supposed age of free speech, and
    work out why this is being done.

    What are ‘ they’ , the ‘establishment’, afraid of?

    Just click on AWoLsco, which will take you to Disqus, and then click on ‘profile’
    which will take you to the latest posts, and then scan down looking for a nice
    distinctive red flag, euphemistically titled ‘ pending’ or ‘detected as spam’.
    You’ll see a lot of red flags.

    Sure, there’s a lot of amateurish junk there, but in amongst it, is the odd wee
    gem….or so I like to imagine.

    ……and, it’s hardly the sort of stuff that’s likely to reduce Western Christian
    Civilisation to ashes…. the intention is the opposite……to support it, and
    attempt to shore it up.

    • Central power

      Your comments equating Gestapo and Hitler with Mother Theresa should not be deleted.because they show how many comments with fascists and racists undertones are in favor of Brexit.

    • Bendys

      Not to mention that Disqus itself is an anti-Christian site.
      They have a channel called “Religion” which is in fact just a place for Christianity bashing.

  • Central power

    Since the end of the 1st World War by far the best economic performance by the UK has been in the last 20 years – roughly the existence of the EU (not Common Market).I have yet to hear which of my freedoms have been affected by the membership of the EU. There are some silly things coming out of the EU but many good things too: on health issues, roaming charges etc. The case of the Leave campaign is that of a gambler. Anyone telling him (however well-meaning)not to stake all is dismissed with the words: “Have no fear!”. For rich and privileged people like Boris it may be two way bet. For rest of us it is an unnecessary leap in the dark. In the eyes of Brexiters all world leaders (apart from Putin), most industrialists, bankers, politicians are wrong. If they (the Outers) have no argument – then they use personal attacks: Obama (Kenyan who hates Brits), Applebaum (loves Poles and Israel) or just resort to expletives or conspiracy theories.

    • AWoLsco

      “Obama (Kenyan who hates Brits), Applebaum (loves Poles and Israel) or just resort to expletives or conspiracy theories.”

      Wasn’t Gregori Zinoviev’s real name Hirsch Apfelbaum…Appletree? …one of the greatest mass- murderers of the USSR, and of all time…… and an unashamed disciple of the great satan, to boot …who makes Hitler and the Gestapo look like Mother Theresa and the Band of Hope.
      Personally I’d be a bit wary of taking on information, unchecked and independently verified, from someone with the name of ‘Apfelbaum’ or ‘Appletree’, if you prefer.

      • Trailblazer10

        Bolshevik, of course.

        • AWoLsco

          Said in reply to the insanely bigotted pro-Christian, pro-white, European, AWoLsco,racist, fascist ( I had a gang of my own once. I’d like to get one back) insanely nationalistic, insanely truth-seeking, insanely anti-globalist Scot.

  • MickC

    Ms Applebaum is, of course, a Neocon….

    • Alex

      So are most of the readers of this publication tbf.

      • MickC

        Actually, I rather doubt that; fairly Right probably, but I think the British people have long ago been cured of the desire to order the world in their own image (and for their own benefit, of course) which seems to be the Neocon agenda.
        Applebaum was a competent and effective Cold Warrior, but that threat (if it ever really existed…..) is long over.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Not really – plenty of Exit voters who still think i.e. the commonwealth is magically just waiting to open magical trade floodgates with us.

          • MickC

            With respect, again I rather doubt the majority of Exiters believe that to be the case. I certainly don’t, and I most certainly do not want the UK to tell other countries what to do.
            I merely think we should trade with as many as possible, provided it is profitable for us.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I’m not sure on proportions, but you see that view espoused here a lot.

            And the fact is that losing the trade treaties mean a lot less trade, especially less profitable trade – and the impact on services….

          • MickC

            Well, there are many views…. As the saying goes “prophecies are always difficult, especially when they’re about the future”…..

          • Tom Brownbill

            So you have done a poll of those people who wish to exit The European Union ? Maybe you missed out the words “I think” in your message. Just a thought.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I said “plenty”. As you can see on these boards, as you claim your rejection of my post is thinking.

          • Tom Brownbill

            I didn’t reject your post. Just curious how you came to an assessment of “plenty”. I do think the debate on leaving the EU is clouded by the misinformation put out by the Government, sadly, using tax payers money. So how much is plenty ?

          • br14

            We already trade with many countries who do not have trade deals with the EU.

            In fact the UK’s trade with non-EU countries (including the US) is growing even as the share of trade with the EU falls.

            Trade has very little to do with governments.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Some trade, yes. But most of it is via EU trade treaties. Which are increasingly important.

            Your ignorance of tariffs and barriers…

  • gerronwithit

    I think you will find that the US interest in the UK staying inside the EU is rather like the position they favour for us since the beginning of the 20th century. Every time there is a European conflict or an uncomfortable situation to be contained the US prefer us to be there first and last. We lost an empire and most of our treasure due to the conflicts of the 20th century and in both of the major conflicts the US were quite happy that we were there alone while they maintained their neutrality until there was no other recourse left yo them. Hitler, after all, declared war on the US, not the other way round. Their ‘support’ of us at the start of WWII came at the price of us literally having to load gold on boats for delivery to the US to pay for lend lease. Their support during the Falkland crisis was very lukewarm and I would not bank on their support for the Falklands to this day, certainly not while Obama is still in office.

    Meanwhile, under toady Blair and his heir Cameron, we have wholeheartedly joined every dodgy US enterprise from Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya and now Syria. Once again we can spend our treasure to support the American adventurism. The only sensible period since WWII was when we declined to be involved in Vietnam which proved prescient considering their subsequent disastrous engagements almost everywhere. We would have done so much better to leave them to it. We could certainly have pleaded financial and physical exhaustion as an excuse given all we have done for Europe as well as the US, as legitimate a reason as the Germans and the Japanese taking a back seat to drive their own economic advantages due to their extended ‘neutrality’.

    As for the EU, an effete bunch of greedy freeloaders who could not stop a single African immigrant no matter how many billions we throw at it nor do anything other than economic damage to many of its constituent members. Someone should advise Obama that the EU is a fatally holed ship that will sink under the weight of unimaginable bureaucratic incompetence.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Yes, I’m sure you’ll try and make up stories about the EU.

    • Brigantian

      We may not have been involved in Vietnam but we were involved in fighting the Vietnamese in Cambodia. It is all too easy to forget the serried ranks of skulls resulting from ‘our’ support of Pol Pot.

  • conservativesupport

    This article shows the huge ignorance of Americans who think Brexit means isolationism. The opposite is the case. Every Pro-Brexit person I know wants to get out of this collapsing, protectionist, inward-looking, undemocratic, attempt at a superstate called the EU and open up to the world.

    Americans give their STATES more autonomy than the EU plans to give its countries.

    It’s time Ms Applebaum discovered a little more curiosity in her subject and turned round to educate her US compatriots about not getting the wrong end of the stick.

    • newminster

      Where to start?
      The EU is not a superstate or if it is, it’s a pretty ham-fisted one. The EU gets its authority and its powers from the member states, much as some people prefer the myth that things are the other way round. There are no plans to change that in spite of the rather pathetic bleating from a couple of European parliamentarians who nobody but the scaremongering media is listening to.
      What pro-Brexit people may want is not the same as what they may get. The choice is either isolationism or trying to cobble together a deal with an EU that holds all the cards.
      The idea that the rest of the world is just gagging to do sweet deals with the UK is delusional to say the least and with 40%+ of UK exports going to the EU I’m afraid it’s EEA or tariff barriers and EEA=EU rules on trade which means EU standards and EU rules on freedom of movement.
      The US isn’t going to come running and nor is Canada and nor is Australia and nor is New Zealand and nor is China (except totally in her own interests and you really do not want to go there!) and nor is India.
      Russia will be happy.
      And you really do not want to go down that route either.
      Or you can find out the hard way that UK only punches above its weight as part of the EU. Outside that, nobody cares any more.

      • terence patrick hewett

        You either have a slave mentality or you do not.

      • br14

        “There are no plans to change that”

        So says someone who has clearly never read Monnet.

        There are plans to “change that” and soon.

        The objective is to create an “EU of the regions” diluting national government authority until they’re little more than a rubber stamp on EU laws (well over 50% of the way already). Full power will reside in the hands of the appointed Commissioners, but appointed by whom? National governments (with the possible exception of Germany) have already lost power. The more members, the less democratic the EU becomes.

        The EU Parliament has no power worth a jot, so the absence of real power at a national level will allow EU elites full power without democratic accountability.

        History demonstrates that when this kind of plutocracy prevails the end result is not good for the majority.

      • conservativesupport

        You don’t seem to have read Monnet or the Five Presidents Report. The EU will get rid of all national parliaments eventually if they get their own way.

      • Tom Cullem

        It gets its powers from member states? You mean, like the deal Merkel arranged on her own after Tusk had arranged a different one with Turkey? Did Merkel call anyone in any of the other member states before inviting all of Syria in?

        Frontex still hasn’t secured the EU’s external borders. Greece is a dead economy. The Eurozone has been stagnant for how long?

        No one is pretending the issue isn’t complicated. That isn’t a reason not to get out of a sclerotic bureaucracy that has failed dismally on every crisis it has been confronted with – Merkel just sold the EU’s core “values” out to Turkey to save herself.

        Sorry – no deal.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      Ignorance? It’s a clear fact!
      As you want to get out of trade, and start cancelling those rights and protections…right. Closed for business, etc.

      Trying to lie is a bad idea. Especially if you win, and…

      • conservativesupport

        The EU is a protectionist, inward looking block. It has significant (well above WTO global average) tariff barriers at its borders most obviously in agricultural goods. It has failed to do a trade deal with any other major Trading Group/nation eg. China, India, NAFTA despite decades trying.

        You seem to share the same ignorance as the Americans, except that it appears wilful in your case. You claim with extreme arrogance to know what I want better than I do myself. In fact you appear to think you know the inner intentions of all 20-30 million Brits who want to leave the EU, despite most of them telling you that you’re wrong.

        Nobody has any intention of stopping trade. We don’t need to be part of a failing political project to have free trade. We don’t even need a trade agreement to trade freely as our trade with the US demonstrates. In fact it is the failed Euro project with its suffocating regulations and its drive to harmonise everything that is destroying trade and generating widespread unemployment. Unemployment in the Eurozone is double that outside it. EU trade is stagnant and falling. Our trade with the rest of the world grew 7% last year, typical and growing. If you genuinely support free trade vote to Leave.

        Or you can stay in a fantasy world where you convince yourself all Brexit-supporters are evil anti-trade crazies to excuse yourself from actually having to listen to what we are saying – after all, horror of horrors, you might find you agree….

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, those wild claims…check.

          You deny lots of trade deals, check. (Not free trade ones, but deals…)

          As you accuse me of your ignorance. If you don’t want to buy forign products, I am not in any way stopping you. But you want to raise tarrif barriers with America, which you deny. As you complain about the Euro, which we’re not a part of, and as you deny the effects of Neoliberalism. As you are happy to throw away trade – including the trade you want higher barriers to for the rest of the world

          As you say that if you want free trade, vote for barriers and tarrifs. As you blame me for your views about evil, when factually you’re trying to damage Britain’s trade. Which I don’t agree with. Then there’s the damaging effects elsewhere…

          PS, you do support self-determination, right? For example, if you get your way for England, then London…

    • Tom Cullem

      The Danish People’s Party announced today that it believes the Danes should also have a chance to vote on increasing EU power through a referendum. Polls in Sweden show dislike of the EU at an all time high. And we can see from this weekend’s first round elections that gave the far right a huge victory in Austria which way they are going . . .

      Isolation? Bollocks to that – we’ll be leading the way out for the other sane nations who want to remain who they are instead of being swallowed up by Brussels.

      Which is exactly what Juncker et al., are afraid of.

  • Catfish ✓ ᶜᵒᶰᵗʳᵃ⁻ᶦˢᶫᵃᵐᶦᶜ

    Ironically, CapX took a poll of Americans on Saturday:

    “59% of Americans say no, Obama; Britain should never be at back of line”
    http://capx.co/59-of-americans-say-no-obama-britain-should-never-be-at-back-of-line/

    Bzzzz… try again Anne Applebaum.
    .

  • Brigantian

    America is a big place. Two continents no less. The USA alone is large and hardly homogeneous. There are many countries in South and Central America that have historically close ties with the UK that have found those ties strained to breaking point since we joined the EEC in 1973.
    The only people in the Americas who understand what this referendum is all about and actively support the UK remaining in the EU are those who would profit through TTIP at the expense of the vast majority of people in the UK.
    The fact that the one US presidential candidate who already has significant property assets in the UK actively supports Brexit says it all.

  • Ordovici

    Anne Applebaum’s byline at the bottom of the article is much too coy.

    It neglects to mention that she has been married to the former Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski since 1992. Sikorski is a key alibi of Donald Tusk current president of the European Council. Sikorski is one of the architects of the EU’s Ukraine policy.

    • MickC

      Ally one hopes, but when it all goes wrong Sikorski may well be the alibi….

    • zappata

      The Poles are still hankering after recreating the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth;they tried after WWI and within two decades Stalin had smacked them back to their mediaeval borders;They just won’t learn!

      • AWoLsco

        “still hankering after recreating the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth”…the Poles

        Yes, they go on about the the Germans and those ‘ridiculous’ Ukrainian nazis, the loyal followers of the late Stephan Bandera, while all the time the Poles, given half a chance, are the biggest land -grabbing nazis on the face of this earth.

        addendum.
        Far from being the downtrodden, innocent peasants, typically depicted by Hollywood and the vainglorious, rubbishy films of wartime England, the Poles were all full of bragadoccio, and cock-a-hoop after their( seldom mentioned) successful war with the bolsheviks in 1919-21.

        Only recently, I learnt that, if Germany persisted with their insane demands for a Polish corridor( a very reasonable and modest request), then the Poles, stupidly buoyed up by the ludicrous guarantees of support from England and France, threatened to invade Germany, and strut down Unter-den- Linden, in Berlin, in a victory parade…….somewhat at odds with the carefully-crafted war films that we are bombarded with almost every evening on British television channels.

        ” Lies come first and drag along the gullible. Truth limps in, long after, on the long arm of time”…..Balthazar Gracian.

    • Tom Cullem

      Many thanks for providing this crucial bit of information, which makes her “case” for Obama’s “case” crystal clear.

      So much for independent journalism.

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      Good spot!

  • TheSGM

    He does not speak for this American although he and his supporters might think so; but they are as delusional as many of their policies.

  • Tom Brownbill

    So the President of the United States, would that we, in the United Kingdom, allow control of our daily lives to be given to other European States, many of which have failing economies and are dependant on the UK & Germany to subsidise what is actually the failing institution that is the European Union. I wonder how Americans would react to their laws, their everyday lives having to be rubber stamped by countries such as Canada or Mexico. I think not ! Take down the steel wall on the Mexican border and you can imagine what we in the UK are already experiencing over here, and with no say in the matter.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      The EU you’re trying to bring down, including the British economy…

      As you whine that you don’t have a vote as a newish, non-EU, non-Commonwealth foreigner here!

  • Mc

    “If it had left the EU, Britain would not have had nearly as much influence, or perhaps any influence at all.”

    This sweeping statement could have some credibility if Applebaum any argument or fact to back it up.

    • AWoLsco

      See Aplfelbaum, Appletree for what she is……..an ashkenasim (Khazar), anti-Christian subversive ,bleating mendicant, parasitic apparatchik and mouthpiece of our corrupted press,….. and of no fixed address, other than the criminal redoubt of Israel…as predicted by Adolf Hitler.

    • Noel Donnelly

      Read the article again – I think you’ve missed the evidence, but I certainly couldn’t miss it.

      • Mc

        You’ve mistaken logical fallacies and BS for evidence.

  • Tom Cullem

    Good God. The man is a lame duck president who will be gone in six months; he comes onto British soil and threatens and insults his country’s oldest ally, threats he has no right to make on behalf of whoever it is who will succeed him, whilst support for the TTIP that is his real “case” sinks in Europe and America.

    He obfuscated, he told outright lies, and like his counterparts here in the UK, his “case” is solely made on behalf of the investor class.

    And lastly, whatever “support” Obama enjoys among champagne socialists in London, is, I assure you, considerably diluted in places like, say, the Tyneside.

    America would go to war before surrendering its sovereignty as it suggests Britain do.

    Barack Obama, lame-duck president, does not give a tinker’s curse about Britons or their lives. Not one. It isn’t as if all those visa-free Turks are going to be flooding into the US via New York, is it?

    Stop feeding us this pabulum as if we were infants.

    • AWoLsco

      “Barack Obama, lame-duck president, does not give a tinker’s curse about Britons or their lives.”

      Of course not. He’s a CIA-controlled jew.( the black bit is purely incidental)
      Why the English ever let jews back into these Islands, beats me.
      Oh, hold that for a minute…..I know.
      Money!
      Money for Cromwells’s New Model Army, which appeared out of nowhere, and the ‘mysterious’, phoenix -like, rise of the great Briitsh empire.
      Even back then, you were being conned.
      Look at you now.

      • Sgtsnuffy

        OH CUT THE JEW CRAP THERE STUD, HE AIN’T NO JEW HE’S A DAMN CLOSET MUSLIM AND IF HE THOUGHT HE’D GET AWAY WITH IT HE’D ORDER A NUKE STRIKE ON ISRAEL . IF ANYTHING HE TAKES HIS ORDERS FROM TEHRAN THROUGH VALERIE JARRETT . WE’VE HAD TO LIVE WITH PILE OF PIG CRAP GOING ON 8 YEARS .

      • Mary Barnes

        You are an anti semitic bigot. You are persuading no one with your views.
        Obama is a good, decent and clever man.

        • Katherine McChesney

          The guy is the most corrupt President in the history of the U.S. He’s arrogant, a narcissist and a racist.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Nixon?

          • Katherine McChesney

            The Stench currently residing in the White House.

          • Noel Donnelly

            What stench is that? I’m fairly new on this site, and I’m trying to work out who’s for real and who’s just using a scattergun ‘I really don’t like him’ approach. Now I’m sure nobody gets to be leader of a great nation by being fluffy and nice, and I’m sure you’ve plenty of reasons not to like Obama. But calling him the most corrupt president in US history is quite a claim. Could you please give me something a little more solid to go on? Arrogant, narcissistic and racist – I don’t really accept these, but then again, they don’t make him corrupt. Why do you say corrupt? Of what, precisely, does his corruption consist?

          • Katherine McChesney

            obama….married to the first Wookie.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Corruption? Married to a what? That sounds like an insult, and not even a very good one. .
            You don’t really have anything serious to say at all, do you?

          • Zaba

            It’s very difficult to be kind to Mooch.

          • Zaba

            obama favors muzlims;
            islam is incompatible with the West.

            For proof: see Europe.

        • Zaba

          Obama is a good, decent and clever man.

          takiya

      • Katherine McChesney

        He is NOT a Hebrew. The guy is a MUSLIM you moron.

        • Noel Donnelly

          He’s a protestant!! Sorry to be all boring and factual about it, but he attends both the Shiloh Baptist Church and the St John’s Episcopal Church. That means that he isn’t a Jew, and he isn’t a Muslim. He’s a Christian. What’s so difficult about it.
          Why call someone a moron when there are verifiable facts, and the truth is clear?

          • Katherine McChesney

            That’s funny….two completely different denominations. He’s a Muslim, raised a Muslim, loves the Muslim call to worship, wears a Muslim ring, hates Jews…

            ….MUSLIM!!!!!

          • Noel Donnelly

            As it happens I know several Christians who attend different churches (I have no faith, by the way, but I do respect others’ views) because they aren’t dogmatic, they think there’s more than one way to worship and so on. I also know several Muslims who do the same. Many Muslims don’t like the fact that there are different denominations of mosque; the Qu’ran states that all Mosques should be the same, but clearly they aren’t. I don’t share any of these views, but I can understand them.
            Now, my information is that his mother was non-religious (Obama’s description) but very spiritual. His father (who he didn’t know very well) was an atheist. He became a protestant as an adult. So he wasn’t raised as a Muslim, and simply stating he is now isn’t evidence – it’s simply an assertion.
            If you can give me a reference to his ‘loving the Muslim call to prayer’, then ok, but that doesn’t make him a Muslim either. To be a Muslim he’d have to publicly accept that faith, which he has certainly never done. I’m not sure what a Muslim ring is (I’ve never heard of such a thing), so I don’t know about that, but again, wearing a ring is not relevant if he hasn’t made a public declaration. And as for him hating Jews, that’s not true – the administration contains Jews with whom he has no problem. And there are others here who seem to think he’s a Jew, so I think they may disagree with you on this.
            Again, do you have any evidence?

          • Noel Donnelly

            Oh – one more thing – Jews don’t necessarily hate Muslims, and Muslims don’t necessarily hate Jews. To get theological about it, they are all ‘people of the book’ and it’s only since the discovery of oil in the Middle East that there has been much friction between them. So disliking Jews doesn’t make him a Muslim, any more than Hitler was a Muslim.

          • Katherine McChesney

            No they’re not. “The Book” is the Holy Bible. Nothing about Islam. It is a satanic religion as their ‘Jesus/Isa” is the Anti-Christ.

          • Noel Donnelly

            This is scandalous and insulting. Muslims regard the Bible as a holy book, albeit with errors. They consider all Biblical prophets to have been sent by God, including Jesus Christ. They simply add one more prophet, Mohammed, who they regard as the last prophet. You really are beginning to sound like a very small-minded, nasty bigot – you don’t seem to care what other human beings’ sincerely held beliefs are, and you don’t seem to have any respect for anything outside your own experience.
            Can I ask – is one of your reasons for leaving the EU because you just don’t like people from mainland Europe?

          • Katherine McChesney

            No they don’t. They have false Jesus they call Isa. THEIR Jesus is the Christian anti-christ.

            You are seriously deranged if you think they worship God. Allah is a false god. Islam was founded by the Augustinian monks in order to control the world but they have betrayed the Roman Catholic church but poope Frank is trying to reconcile with them by speaking out in favor of accepting them into our culture.

            NOEL, SEE A PSYCHIATRIST FOR YOUR MENTAL ILLNESS.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Allah is the arabic word for ‘god’. There is no other translation. The two words are precisely the same in meaning.

            I didn’t realise there was a Christian anti-christ – what on earth are you talking about?

            Please comment on the following, which is the written introduction to the evidence you kindly present:

            “The writers, producers, editors and publishers of this video are not stating that Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim, or that Obama himself claimed or admitted to being a Muslim. Rather the writers, producers, editors, and publishers of this video are only examining the evidence surrounding the rumor that Barack Hussein Obama might be a secret Muslim.”

            I’m not in need of a psychiatrist. Are you qualified to make such diagnoses?

          • Katherine McChesney

            You’re dumb as a box of rocks.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Your insults are really crap!!!

            But I think I do like you!!!

          • Zaba

            Allah is the arabic word for ‘god’.

            No.
            `The proof is in ‘allah hu akbar’ which is the superlative.

            allah is a moon god stolen from another desert tribe, along with the kabaa, and
            well documented by Arab historians.

          • Katherine McChesney
          • Noel Donnelly

            You’ve gone all quiet. Nothing left to say?

          • Katherine McChesney

            I’ve stated the fact.

          • Noel Donnelly

            No. You have to show it’s a fact, not just assert it. As I say, the evidence you’ve given accepts at the outset that he isn’t a Muslim. The rest is for people who would like him to be a Muslim. I remember a song that went, ‘There’s a guy works down the chip shop swears he’s Elvis’. But he wasn’t. He just said he was Elvis. (Please don’t tell me now that Obama is really Elvis….)

          • Katherine McChesney
          • Katherine McChesney
          • Noel Donnelly

            There’s a disclaimer at the start of this video which says that he isn’t a Muslim. What do you think of that?

          • Katherine McChesney

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCAffMSWSzY He calls it his Muslim faith you moron.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Clearly a slip of the tongue. I can provide lots of quotes where he’s very clear about his Christianity.
            And like I say, the makers of the video state at the outset that he isn’t a Muslim. What do you think of that?
            Do you call me a moron because I disagree? Is everyone who disagrees with you a moron?

          • Katherine McChesney

            I’m done with you. You are seriously mental.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Oh, don’t be so childish! You don’t answer people’s questions. You just insult them.

            I’m persistent. And you clearly can’t handle that, can you?

          • Katherine McChesney

            You’re straining a gnat and avoiding the truth.

          • Noel Donnelly

            I’m absolutely open to the truth – I’m still willing to listen if you have any serious evidence, but you sent me a video link the first part of which clearly stated that what you’re claiming isn’t true. Not convincing!!
            The truth is – he’s not a Muslim!!!
            You can’t leave it alone, though, can you?

          • Katherine McChesney

            No it didn’t. It did NOT deny that he was Muslim. It said they weren’t stating that he is Muslim. THE VIDEO IS THE PROOF YOU BRAIN DEAD, LOW IQ MORON.

          • Noel Donnelly

            No. It isn’t proof. You haven’t commented on the statement at the very start of the video. Why not?

            I don’t mind continuing with this, but from now on I’ll simply ignore the insults and shouting. If you did the same, this could be quite nice and enjoyable.

          • Noel Donnelly

            It just doesn’t count as evidence if there’s a notice like that at the start. You need better evidence than a quick mock up like that. Do you believe everything you see on YouTube? I’m not sure it’s all true, you see….

      • Noel Donnelly

        This is getting confusing – on another article on this site there are people sweearing blind he’s a Muslim and he’s going to convert the US & UK forcibly to Islam. My information suggests he attends a variety of moderate protestant churches, even though he was brought up without faith. When you say he’s a jew, do you mean this is some kind of metaphorical sense? Because he isn’t Jewish. It’s as simple as that.

    • Sgtsnuffy

      YOU HIT THE NAIL SQUARELY ON THE HEAD .

    • Trailblazer10

      “It isn’t as if all those visa-free Turks are going to be flooding into the US via New York, is it?”

      Obama is doing that already, he has practically erased the southern border and is engaged in various deceptive schemes to import vast numbers from the ME.

      “The purpose of the meeting was to explore
      mechanisms for the admission of Syrian refugees… Such mechanisms could include resettlement,.. as well as other pathways, such as humanitarian admission or transfer,
      family reunification, labor mobility schemes and scholarships.”

      He intends to use “reunification” , “education programs”, “labor mobility” , to import hundreds of thousands.

  • Sgtsnuffy

    NO HE DOESN’T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HE DOESN’T SPEAK FOR ME, MY FAMILY OR THE MANY PEOPLE I KNOW HERE IN COLORADO . HE DOESN’T SPEAK FOR THE AUSTRALIAN SOLDIER WHO RETIRED AFTER SERVING IN THE US ARMY IN VIETNAM WHO WORKS AT BIG R FARM AND RANCH SUPPLY , HE DOESN’T SPEAK FOR THOSE OF US WHO WORKED WITH BRITISH TROOPS IN GERMANY DURING THE COLD WAR . OBAMA SPEAKS FOR HIS OWN SELF AGGRANDIZEMENT HE DOESN’T SPEAK FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA . WE’VE HAD GOING ON EIGHT YEARS OF THIS DOUCHE BAG AND WE WILL BE SO GLAD TO SEE HIM GO . WHATEVER YOU BRITS DO , DON’T LISTEN TO THE LIAR IN CHIEF .

    • Noel Donnelly

      Please, don’t worry – nobody thinks he speaks for all Americans. We know there are plenty of people who disagree with him. But we still want to hear what he says. Don’t worry! We will think about what he says before doing anything! Don’t worry! If you want to say something, we’ll listen to that as well! But if you calm down, you’ll get your point across much better. But most of all – DON’T WORRY – it’s really not worth getting that worked up about.

  • Aberrant_Apostrophe

    It seems certain members of the British political clique and their media sycophants aren’t the only ones who live in Hampstead and Islington style Bubbles, isolated from the Plebeians. There are Washington style ones too.

  • Mary Barnes

    The EU is a a vital part of our geopolitical, food and economic security, We have a strong network of alliances in the EU,. with the commonwealth and NATO.
    Support the EU to keep Europe secure and united, not divided weak and ripe for plunder.

    • Aberrant_Apostrophe

      Talking of plundering, are you for or against TTIP?

      • Mary Barnes

        I am for it.

        • Aberrant_Apostrophe

          Oh dear. Just as I thought.

    • cerius lee

      no it’s not…it keeps food and energy prices high…the economic arguments will rage on but fact is we have paid enough in net contributions to pay off our national deficit twice…

      • cerius lee

        Estimates suggest electrical machinery is 24 per cent above world prices, cars 22 per cent and furniture 54 per cent. Paddy Ashdown let the cat out of the bag last week by moaning that Brexit would deliver “cheap food”. Heaven forbid!

    • cerius lee

      three of the four European countries with the highest employment rates – Iceland, Switzerland and Norway – are not actually in the EU, and Greece and Spain have unemployment rates over 20 per cent, EU membership is clearly neither necessary nor sufficient for a healthy labour market.

      • Mary Barnes

        Albania is not in the EU. And has some of the highest unemployment rates, so does Serbia
        The United Kingdom is in the EU and has low unemployment rates.

        • AWoLsco

          “Albania is not in the EU. And has some of the highest unemployment rates, so does Serbia”

          A certain gentleman, called Anthony Blair, but better-known as Teflon Tone turned his benign gaze in the direction of those two countries, as he did on Iraq…then war, people-trafficking, devastation and high unemployment followed.
          Strange chap is Teflon Tone, with his manufactured, engaging smile that all women love so much…especially marxist, feminist, useful-idiots.

          • Noel Donnelly

            Tony Blair – supported by Marxists? What planet are you on? They were the first ones to call him a tory, and didn’t they organise the stop the war coalition (clue: TB wasn’t a member of that)? Did you think about this before you writing?
            Hang on – ‘engaging smile that all women love so much’ – you’re just jealous of him aren’t you? Maybe you want to be him?

        • cerius lee

          my point is that the EU isn’t better at securing jobs…your point is?.. I dare say Albania will be working furiously on it’s EU application forms though…

    • Tom Cullem

      NATO is the source of our security and America mostly pays for it. The EU’s “open borders” are now part of our security problem. You should have paid attention to today’s interview with James Clapper about how ISIS is spreading through Europe, with cells like the ones that carried out the Brussels and Paris attacks in Britain, Germany, and Italy, with Britain being the high-value target. One of the men finally caught told the intelligence services he had brought 90 jihadists back with him, but of course, he won’t be giving up their names or whereabouts. British intelligence has foiled about 7 plots in the last year, and EU nations are still reluctant to share intelligence.

      Mr. Clapper, former director of America’s National Intelligence, specifically mentioned how easily the home-grown terrorists were returning from training in places like Syria and Iraq, and then running around Europe thanks to their EU passports. The EU does not have an army, Frontex has failed even now to secure the EU’s external borders. Merkel had to sell the EU to a fascist dictator in Turkey, selling out those “values” you Remainders seem so fond of referring to, to save herself from her vast political errors in handling the migrant crisis.

      Catch the results of Austria’s elections this past weekend? Been following what is going on in Libya, as it collapses, with its long coastline on the Mediterranean a stone’s throw from Europe (that would be the same Europe whose external borders are still porous thanks to the EU’s ineptitude) as ISIS takes over about two-thirds of it . . .? No?

      Maybe you should. As a million or so more migrants from Libya try to head for Europe, this time through Italy and the Brenner Pass, Switzerland has already cancelled its armed serivces’ vacations and is sending tanks there. If the Brenner Pass closes, you can kiss Schengen goodbye – you think Merkel can cut another noxious deal with IS in Libya the way she did with that fascist in Turkey?

      The EU not only isn’t a vital part of our security, it is actively endangering us.

    • GuyBaker

      PLUNDER?
      Are you kidding? What exactly do you think the BANKERS had in mind when they formed the EU?

      Yieeekkkss!

      • Mary Barnes

        They had a peace and idealism in mind. Not plunder. You sound like an extremist.

    • Trailblazer10

      Hilarious. Do you have a twitter parody account as well?

      • Mary Barnes

        You are being a fool.

  • AWoLsco

    Let’s imagine we are big-time fraudsters and embezzlers.
    Which would we prefer to tackle?
    a) 30-40 little countries with their own currencies, own laws and languages and own borders, police forces and armed forces, that have to be robbed one by one…….or
    b) One big ‘united’ fat, juicy, corrupt plum, with one currency, speaking one language, no internal borders, one big, readily-corruptible, bribeable police force and one tiny set of armed forces that can be guaranteed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    It’s a no-brainer.

    You want to make money big-time?
    Go for the USSR or USA first, and then knock off some easy little countries like Iceland for beer money and petty cash…..but supplies from those little countries are beginning to dry up, because all are on the alert.

    So, I would promote a ‘united’ Europe and then go for that…….much, much juicier pickings.
    and much, much safer. When Europe realises it has been robbed and starts squabbling over who’s to blame for the missing funds, I’ll end up owning most of the place and its assets, and will be comfortably out of the way.

  • cerius lee

    there seems to be an illusion that EU is just another vehicle for international co-opreration when in reality it’s a vehicle for international absorption…

  • Bardirect

    TTIP whereby asset stripping US corporations get their foot in the door of European public services like the NHS but European companies are BARRED from tendering from US tendering. Did I get anything wrong there? so a one way street like the Extradition Treaty?

  • Raddiy

    You are either very brave as an American telling us what we should do, or very stupid.

    The British people don’t play lapdog to America, even if our second rate political leaders do. What we will do is vote for what is best for us, us as in the British people, in exactly the same way the Americans do. I also doubt very much that Obama speaks for America if the current political debate across the pond is anything to go by.

    Just focus on your boring election and sort out your own problems.

    • Katherine McChesney

      Enjoy the demise of your country.

      • celtthedog

        And you enjoy the demise of yours, love.

    • George Washington

      idk if “brave” is the word. It’s not like you’re going to do anything. That said, you should totes vote to leave and enter an agreement with us instead.

  • AnnS

    No Obama does NOT speak for the majority of Americans.

    He is a hypocrite. The US would NEVER allow itself to be ordered about by Canada or Guatemala or kow-tow to allowing millions of illiterate, uneducated and unskilled Central and South American peasants to just move on in and be allowed to draw welfare and food stamps. (Anyone notice the tenor of the POTUS campaign…?)

    The Common Market thing kinda made sense. The EU …..not on a bet!! (And least Britain had the sense to tell the EU to sod off with its Euro.)

    The EU is one of the LEAST democratic organizations in the world. Anonymous bureaucrats dictating to people about minute details of their lives….Mao would be envious of such control.

    The EU is an economic and political disaster. The whole Euro-one currency thing was half-baked nonsense decades ago and has proven to be a catalyst for economic havoc.

    The EU courts over-ruling the elected governments of countries and their national courts ….. pitchforks are in order.

    As someone whose appalling narrow-minded bigoted fanatical ancestors got kicked out Britain and the out of every decent country in Europe and washed up in North America in a leaky bucket called The Mayflower….. please I beg you VOTE OUT!!

    Centuries of culture and political philosophy are being destroyed by EU technocrats. Simon De Montfort would be appalled at how sovereignty was handed over to unelected bureaucratic dictators – and England flooded with those from far less culturally advanced areas.

  • davidblameron

    Never mind, we can soon look forward to a President Trump, Cruz and Rubio, his pathetic rivals are toast as soon his Democrat rival will be when the truth about her dawns on the US public.

  • FedUpWithWelfareStates

    “It is NONE of our business!”

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