Features

It’s not just Donald Trump, the right is tearing itself apart everywhere

30 April 2016

9:00 AM

30 April 2016

9:00 AM

Is Boris Johnson turning into the thinking man’s Donald Trump? Just like the Donald, he’s got funny hair, charisma, and an appetite for women. He may not be as rich as Trump — although we were all impressed by his latest contribution to the Exchequer — but he makes up for that by having a much bigger vocabulary. He’s also able to get away with saying outrageous things because people think he’s entertaining. And in his efforts to persuade Britain to leave the European Union, Boris seems to be appealing to the same anti-politics mood that Trump is exploiting across the pond.

No, I’m not talking about that ‘part–Kenyan’ remark about Barack Obama, which has been taken out of context. I mean his dredging up of that faux outrage which was Obama’s decision to remove a bust of Winston Churchill from the Oval Office, and his conspiratorial mutterings about the CIA’s involvement in the formation of the European Union. Michael Gove, the other Tory big beast in the Vote Leave campaign, hardly struck a blow for sanity when he said a vote to remain in the EU would leave the British looking like ‘hostages locked in the back of a car’.

Vote Leave has been eager to distance itself from the fruitier elements of Ukip and the Tory right. God forbid anybody calls them swivel-eyed. But in politics today, crazy is all the rage. No matter how much the ‘out’ campaigners may want to sound normal and positive, they know that to win they must tap into the same forces which are pushing Trump towards the Republican nomination — a distrust of the political elite and a fury at the lack of democratic accountability in this bewildering age of globalisation.

That’s where the political energy is on the right. Everywhere you look, in country after country, batty nationalists are winning and conservative pragmatists are running scared. The victory on Sunday of Austria’s Freedom party candidate, Norbert Hofer, who likes to carry a gun, is just the latest in a series of gains for this new right-wing populism. We see it happening across Europe — in Germany, France, Denmark, Sweden, Holland, Finland, Greece, Italy, Poland, Hungary, not to mention Switzerland.

The extent to which these movements can be described as ‘fascist’ or even ‘far-right’ varies in each case, as does the credibility of their threat to the status quo, but what unites them is an unconservative rage against the ‘system’, and a desire to punish established right-of-centre parties for having betrayed their people. The paranoid style in American politics, first identified by the historian Richard Hofstadter in the Republican party as long ago as 1964, has gone global. What Hofstadter called ‘heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy’ pretty much defines conservatism everywhere.

As Kurt Cobain put it (quoting Joseph Heller), ‘Just because you’re paranoid don’t mean they’re not after you.’ And just because people are angry doesn’t mean they’ve gone round the twist. If you are a German whose country has just accepted 1.5 million immigrants in one year because Angela Merkel wanted to show the world (or Facebook) how kind she was, you might understandably feel disenfranchised, and want to support the radical Alternative für Deutschland, or attend one of those anti-Islam Pegida rallies. If you are a Frenchman living under President François Hollande’s seemingly permanent ‘état d’urgence’ after several appalling terrorist attacks in Paris, you might begin to understand the appeal of Marine Le Pen. And if you are an unemployed Italian, whose country has had three successive unelected prime ministers, you might have good reason to think that democracy is a sham. It’s a logical response to an illogical world.


The right has lots to be angry about. The trouble is that conservatives are not just mad in the American sense, meaning cross; they are mad in the English sense, meaning insane. As Charles Moore put it in The Spectator a few weeks ago, what we see in the rise of Donald Trump is political incorrectness gone mad. People are so fed up of being told not just what they can or can’t say but how they should think that they are lashing out in all sorts of weird directions.

Trump’s popularity is pushed online by an increasingly bizarre movement known as the ‘alt-right’. This is a ragtag army of professional trolls on Twitter, libertarian bloggers, and hard-right activists, bound by nothing other than a shared love of offending politically correct sensibilities. The alt-right is not purely in it for the LOLs, however. Its followers also flirt with misogyny and white supremacy, then plead irony when they are called out as sexist or racist. In Trump, a.k.a. ‘Daddy’, they have an ideal candidate. It’s all very hilarious. It’s also deranged.

The left has gone bananas, too, of course. Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour party, remember. That leather-clad cypher Yanis Varoufakis is considered a major public intellectual. But centre-left parties can still deploy a unifying vocabulary of -economic justice and human rights that speaks to issues of inequality across borders. The right, on the other hand, is torn between its enthusiasm for international capitalism and its love of country and tradition.

In recent years, the British Conservative party appeared to have solved the conundrum — to outside observers, at least. David Cameron just about won an election in 2010, then triumphed last year. Jealous American moderates looked to Cameron’s example as a model for how, post-crash, a right-of–centre party could seize and hold power. Cameron, they said, had successfully modernised the Tories. He’d embraced socialised healthcare, gay marriage and environmentalism, which made him acceptable to the mainstream, while being tough (or tougher) on immigration and government overspending, which kept the right happy. He’d compromised his way to victory, as great Conservatives do.

How silly that argument looks now. As every Tory knows, there is no Cameron-ism. The Big Society agenda — the Burkean waffle about little platoons — was a philosophical fig leaf for a party that was making up its beliefs as it went along. David Cameron has never come close to building any grand coalition; he has been lucky. He won last year’s general election because the opposition was led by Ed Miliband; because Scottish voters dramatically deserted Labour for the SNP; and because Conservative voters believed that his bold reforming agenda had been checked by the Liberal Democrats.

In Britain, the right-wing insurgency represented by Ukip would already be a major parliamentary force were it not for the first-past-the-post system (peace be upon it). If the House of Commons were chosen according to a proportional system, Ukip, having won almost 4 million votes in May, would hold around 80 seats. And Nigel Farage’s barmy army might well have made even greater strides had it not been for the fact that Cameron had offered a huge pre–election sop to the right by promising a referendum over Britain’s EU membership.

Now the referendum has come back to bite Cameron, and his luck is running out. The Brexit debate is having a similar effect on the Tories as Trump’s candidacy has had on the Republicans, forcing the party to confront the very real possibility of its imminent demise. Whether or not Trump becomes the party’s nominee for the presidential election in November, the Republicans now look sunk. The same applies to the Conservatives and the referendum. If the country votes to remain, David Cameron will have alienated a majority of his party’s support, possibly forever. If the country votes to leave, David Cameron, the first successful Tory leader in a generation, will have to resign.

The Brexit issue has forced Cameron’s party to ask itself questions that centre-right parties everywhere would really rather avoid. Is economic growth more important than national sovereignty? And is our country really that great? For decades, Conservatives have muddled on by insisting that, while Britain may be going to dogs, it’s the fault of the nanny state or the EU. But the possibility of leaving the European Union has exposed the doublethink at the heart of modern conservatism, which is that it wants to be at once patriotic and self-loathing.

And if you want to see where patriotic self-loathing gets you, look at Donald Trump. His campaign to Make America Great Again sounds upbeat, but the message is fundamentally negative. Trump says that the greatest country in the world has been wrecked. He tells Republican voters that the American Dream is dead and that Washington and their party have sold them out — and they love him for it.

Maybe the wonks in Washington who wanted the Republican party to imitate Cameron had things the wrong way round. After all, Cameron’s ‘compassionate conservatism’ was initially borrowed from George W. Bush. Like the Cameroons, the Bushies tried to ‘achieve progressive ends by conservative means’, whatever that meant. But the Republicans are now learning that, to survive, a party must demonstrate compassion to the people who actually vote for them, not just the people who might. The Conservatives may soon be taught the same lesson.

For decades, the Republicans pretended to hear the concerns of their lower-class voters about issues such as immigration, only to ignore them when it came to enacting policy. You can only do this so many times before voters find a way to punish you at the ballot. In 2016, the Republican electorate have rejected all the establishment’s preferred choices. Their second choice is Ted Cruz, a hard-right conservative and fervent evangelical, who is unacceptable to the more moderate party elite. But their first choice is a mad postmodern joke: a billionaire who doesn’t seem to stand for anything beyond offending people, and who is so used to being a TV star that he cannot distinguish between his ‘polls’ and ‘ratings’. Perhaps we are seeing the future of right-wing politics, and it’s Donald Trump.

The British pride themselves on not giving in to extremism. We never embraced communism or fascism because we are inherently conservative. But all over the world, conservatism is having a nervous breakdown. The right is tearing itself apart. And the EU referendum is proving that British Conservatives can be as barmy as everyone else.

Subscribe to The Spectator Australia today for a quality of argument not found in any other publication. Subscribe – Try a month free


Show comments
  • Trailblazer10

    Americans have been beaten, raped and murdered. They are being subjected to physical, psychological and economic attack.Their jobs have been stripped from them, they have been thrown on the scrapheap. Their children’s future is being obliterated.

    Along comes Trump who says:

    I know the terrible situation, but don’t despair. We know what the problems are. Together we can fix them. We can build a secure and prosperous sociey with a promising future for our children. Together, we can Make America Great Again.

    An immensely positive and inspiring message.

    • Norbert

      I agree. The key points I’m hearing from Trump:

      – We should call radical Islam by its name … and make the fight against it top priority;
      – Free Trade deals need to be negotiated so as not to put our own citizens at a disadvantage;
      – The US was great when it used its strength to advance peace; that’s what it must do now.

      None of this sounds “crazy” to me. He’s singled out the biggest failures of recent Republican and Democratic administrations.

      • JohnnyNorfolk

        Very little reporting of the facts you note.

      • Australian Inquisitor

        When did America ever use its strength to advance peace?

        • nonuser

          WW1 and WW2 pass you by at school did they?

          • Australian Inquisitor

            Going to war and killing a few million people is “advancing peace”??

            er….OK then….

          • nonuser

            That’ll be a yes then.

          • Australian Inquisitor

            I’ll put money on me knowing significantly more than you do about both conflicts.
            If the Great War had advanced peace, then the Second World War would not have happened.
            If the Second World War had advanced peace, America would not have needed to engage in 15+ sunsequent wars.
            Maybe you should expand your reading beyond Ladybird books?

        • Norbert

          Well, you’d be speaking German now if America hadn’t joined the party in 1917 and in 1941. But since then it’s blundered several times, which is Trump’s point.

    • Marvin

      So unlike our cowardly and gormless politicians who would not know where to start if it came to restructuring a new and free Britain. These incompetent spineless career politicians with long snouts only know how to bend over and obey their masters, the incompetent undemocratic crumbling EU

    • Australian Inquisitor

      Go back to 1933, substitute Americans for Germans and Drumpf for Hitler and it’s also an immensely positive and inspiring message.

      Rhetoric is easy. The devil is in the detail

  • Trailblazer10

    Trump has withstood the relentless distorted invective fired at him by the lackey media and their crony “conservative” pundits.

    They are switching tactics. They are trying to create the illusion Trump supporters are “nutcases, fruitcakes and loons” and that there is ” conservative” alternative. In reality, the alternative is another faux conservative establishment lackey. Cruz is a globalist/corporatist. The establishment don’t like him much because of his unpleasant personality. He is being used to try and prevent Trump getting 1237 delegates. All kinds of machinations are underway in an attempt to subvert the popular vote. The establishment know Cruz can’t win the general. Doesn’t matter to them, it will be business as usual for the establishment donor class under Hillary.

  • Jojje 3000

    It is all down to the PC Big-Government liberals/sociailists, who seems to always get positive media coverage with very little scrutiny and always enjoy all sorts of tax-money without much sweating.

    • mixodorians

      The only people who have experienced any socialism at all, in the last 30 or 40 years (in the UK) are bankers. Socialism for the rich, Fascism for the poor.

      • Jojje 3000

        … and tax-payers.

      • RobertRetyred

        If every mortgage repayment had been made on time, we wouldn’t have had a financial crisis. Something else would have happened, but it would have been different. 🙂

  • mixodorians

    Conservatives sold us trickle down economic theory in the last century and when even David Cameron admitted that trickle down economics was rubbish (and that the rich push all their cash offshore), they turned quickly and became all about smearing and slandering the living crap out of the poor sick and unemployed (for a tax-cut ) in this century..

    They are basically the party of rationalised greed, and self serving contempt, coming up with ever more rationalisations for their greed and selfishness.

    They have no long term vision for the country and never did, and are now just about selling every last asset the Country owns, at knockdown rates out of the backseat of the car, to their mates.. whilst escaping to the Airport.

    • Fraser Bailey

      I don’t disagree. But New Label were no better, and possibly worse.

  • grutchyngfysch

    Let’s be honest here: conservatives have not been doing well electorally for a long time either in the UK or to a certain extent in the US.

    Actual conservatism has been consistently derided as backwards and dangerous at the same time and has been in the crosshairs of metropolitans of all shades including within notionally conservative parties. That pragmatism means many will look at fellow conservative politicians, sympathise with their philosophy and realise that this guy can’t win.

    I’m not sold on the idea that Trump or Boris voters are being duped en masse. I think if you pry closer you’ll find a lot more supposedly gullible voters who are knowingly voting for a populist whom they know is not really a conservative and hoping that they will be able to use the rage that puts them into office to keep them on the straight and narrow.

    • lms2

      I think many voters in the U.S. will be looking at Trump, then the rest, and seeing Trump as being not suited to being President, but at least purporting to support what they themselves support, and the least worst option in a selection of not very good candidates. They’ll do what my cousin will do, which is to hold their nose and vote Trump, because there is no way they’d vote for Clinton Mk 2. They are under no illusions about Trump, but don’t see much alternative.
      Ditto Boris. I’m not convinced he’d make a good PM, but if it’s a choice of him or Cornyn, I’ll vote for Boris. Painless I thought my local UKIP candidate stood with a reasonable chance of winning, that is.

  • Randal

    what unites them is an unconservative rage against the ‘system’

    And if you want to understand why, consider this very piece, and how it drips with insider (“establishment”) contempt for the very significant chunk of the populations of most western states who recognise that the social liberalism and downright treasonous globalism of the supposedly conservative political elites is not and never has been anything like actual conservatism. When “the system” is leftist, as it clearly has been for some time now, it is hardly unconservative to oppose it, nor unreasonable to rage against its profound dishonesty.

    Gratuitously inflicting cultural and constitutional vandalism on the country in the form of gay “marriage” is not conservative. Globalist internationalism, whether by way of uncontrolled mass immigration, of nation-dissolving trade deals and sovereignty-destroying membership of a burgeoning United States of Europe, or by way of incontinent abuse of Britain’s armed forces for interventionism in the service of Washington and of the status of our national elites against their peers abroad, is not, and never has been, “conservative”. Using the methods of the anti-racist witch-finders of the left to call out and hound people for “offending” others with their political views is not, and never has been, conservative, or at any rate not respectably so (it’s a modern form of the McCarthyism that bien-pensants such as Cameron and the rest of the elite left love to pretend to despise, but without the justification of an external threat to our existence).

    Yet precisely those are the very principles by which the “Conservative” Party hierarchy and most of the “conservative” right wing media operate.

    Small wonder traditionalists are looking elsewhere.

  • Bob3

    The problem with the Centre Right nowadays is common sense, normal and doing what is right for the future of ones country is considered extremist.

  • Nick

    This a good but also in parts a daft article.

    Mr.Gray calls UKIP barmy.Well if that party is barmy,what does that make LibLabCon? Because those three parties have systematically torn this nation apart.All three parties apart from a few members support the destruction of the UK in favour of a hardline islamic regime combined with the self loathing political madness of the far left.

    And to say that the right wing are full of self loathing is completely untrue as self loathing has always been the preserve of the far left.For example white far lefties hate them selves because they are white and are the cause of everything that is bad in the world.

    Finally,the right are not tearing themselves apart as the author puts it.In fact,they are regaining strength in an organized way throughout the world and in response to the madness of the far left…i.e.the like of Mad Merkel and co.

    And long may it continue.

  • commenteer

    I don’t recognise your caricature of Brexit supporters. Frankly, any intelligent person who considers the effect of unrestrained immigration on our public services and quality of life would be mad not to vote to leave the EU.
    The insanity is surely on the ‘In’ side.

  • Aethelflaed

    Freddy dear, do tell us what you think of the far-left cultural marxist extremists in the NUS who seem to think that everyone is equal, but some are more so? (Quote from their ‘Animal Farm’ vice-president yesterday.) Don’t you think it rather ‘barmy’ for an arab woman to describe herself as ‘black’, as the new NUS top dog does (I’ll refrain from the female version of dog, as she probably self-describes as a dog.) Isn’t it derranged to laud a Muslim woman who thinks she is non-binary as a symbol of Britishness? Are you not disgusted by a Labour Party who picked and now supports a woman with vile anti-sematic views. Is there not a huge renting of cloth in the Labour movement, torn apart by Blair’s importing votes from people with extremist stone-age views? Doesn’t the one party ‘nationalist’ state in Scotland give you cause for concern – or would that only be, if it was a one party right-wing ‘nationalist’ state.

    You just have not got a clue have you? Never has hypocricy, lies and ‘the devils work’ had such a day as it is having now – courtsey of you left-wing extremists. Your are a fantasists, educated to an advanced level in self-delusion. You think you are a great social justice warriors yet hunker down keeping warm in your middle-class safe-space, whilst ‘working-class’ girls are being raped and sexually abused as a result of your kind of ‘social-justice’ – anyone who disagrees with you is barmy, mad and wicked, so you don’t have to trouble yourself with different views that might shake your huge egos.

    But you have got one thing right – the world is going bad and mad – conservatives who are the ones who see that more clearly than you. Come out into the real world and have a ponder on that.

    • Bill Kendall

      Excellent post.

    • M P Jones

      Discussing with ultra-left fanatics is a waste of time, as is attempting to repudiate their unfounded assertions with factual information.

      • Australian Inquisitor

        I generally find that leftists are better armed with fact and logic than their opponents.
        Too much right wing ideology is faith-based.

        • retundario

          Don’t agree

    • sparrow-hawk

      Well said. These people are straight out of Orwell’s nightmare world of doublethink.

    • JohnnyNorfolk

      Reading this and so many othes gives me hope.

    • gunnerbear

      ” Doesn’t the one party ‘nationalist’ state in Scotland give you cause for concern…..” The Scots electorate voted for the SNP, just as 24% of the total potential electorate in the UK handed a majority to the Blues…..is that okay as well?

  • Randal

    Gray clearly wants to have his cake and eat it with this piece. He alternates between admitting that the dissident right are addressing genuine problems, and calling them “batty”. Between confessing that their concerns are not mad, and then pointing to the most extreme fringes and declaring them mad, as though that somehow discredits the entire movement. He wishes.

    Contrary to the achingly politically correct leftists such as Gray, the bulk of the editors, writers and owners of the so called “conservative” mainstream media, and the “Conservative” Party leadership clique:

    It is not mad, or bad, or unconservative, to be moderately racist, moderately sexist, moderately “homophobic”, and moderately anti-s emitic. In moderate form, these are all traditionalist and patriotic (moderately nationalist) positions, that were regarded as absolutely the norm just a couple of generations ago before we were socially engineered to fear expressing them (if only the BBC had been strangled in its cradle!).

    Such positions are the essence of real conservatism, unlike support for mass immigration, membership of the national suicide pact that is the EU, and global policing interventionism. That approval of all or most of the latter appear to be Gray’s litmus test for sanity pretty much sums up the problem we face with our political, business and media elites.

    • gunnerbear

      I’ve just got to ask, just to take one point, how do you define moderately homophobic?

      • Randal

        All these terms (racist, antisemitic, “homophobic”) are used as demonising smear terms, allowing the user to conflate a whole range of views into whichever end of the scale he wants, to suit the particular purposes of the moment. So on the one hand the abuser can claim these terms refer to “hatred” and refer to the most extreme cases in history (usually people who have advocated murderous violence against the target group), and on the other, he can be confident that any reasonable person can probably be convicted of holding the position in question when challenged, by using the most moderate end of the spectrum.

        Most ordinary people who have not been ideologically reprogrammed have a general preference for living amongst people broadly similar to them, in both cultural and racial terms, most ordinary people who have not been ideologically reprogrammed have a natural, visceral disapproval of homosexual activity, most people who have not been ideologically reprogrammed recognise that jewish people, like any other separately identifiable religious and national group, tend (as a generalisation) to look after their own first and like any other basically foreign religious and national group are likely to have external loyalties in addition to those of ordinary English people. These views are technically “racist”, “homophobic”, and “anti-S emitic”, but they are perfectly moderate and perfectly commonplace and normal, and therefore held by sensible traditionalists.

        Certainly they were held by the vast majority just a couple of generations ago.
        We now live in a society dominated by the left, however, which is not prepared to tolerate any such dissent and which for a long time (in alliance with the identity lobby groups in each case) has sought to “no platform” such views and is now in the process of actually criminalising even their expression in political conversation. They are abetted in this by those groups with clear ulterior interests of their own in the current campaign – mass immigration beneficiaries in the case of antiracism, anti-church and other radical and anti-traditionalist groups in the case of “homophobia”, and pro-Israel groups as well as “Conservative” Party and Blairite Labour opportunists in the case of anti-S emitism.

        As far as your specific question is concerned, the “homophobia” scale would run from a broad disapproval or dislike of homosexual activity coupled with a “live and let live” approach, at the moderate end, through those who believe homosexual activity should be recriminalized, to those who actually do hate people who engage in homosexual activity and even want to do violence to them. Relatively few of the latter and a lot of the former, as always.

        • gunnerbear

          “Certainly they were held by the vast majority just a couple of generations ago.” Society used to lock men up for the ‘crime’ of being a homosexual even in private circumstances……society also thought it a good idea at one time to chemically castrate men like Alan Turing……do you think that was a good thing? Do you think society has been wrong to discard such policies?

          • Randal

            Do you think society has been wrong to discard such policies?

            In the past I supported the decriminalisation of homosexual activity, on basic liberty grounds. I still do, but I have been forced to recognise that those who claimed at the time that it would be the beginning of a “slippery slope” to very unpleasant consequences have been unequivocably proven to have been correct.

            You probably see things like gay “marriage”, homosexual adoption, the illiberal imposition of approval of homosexual activity on B&B owners and others, police harassment and prosecutions of those expressing opposition to the normalisation of homosexual activity, etc, as perfectly fine, even as good, but it is beyond reasonable challenge that the vast majority of those in the 1960s facing the decision would not have approved it if they knew that those would be the consequences.

            society also thought it a good idea at one time to chemically castrate men like Alan Turing……do you think that was a good thing?

            Turing confessed having broken the law for no reason other than his own sexual gratification, so i have no great sympathy for him. As for the “chemical castration”, I certainly wouldn’t approve of such things being imposed by state force.

        • gunnerbear

          “Certainly they were held by the vast majority just a couple of generations ago.” A couple of generations ago, it was unthinkable to have a woman vote let alone be Prime Minister….are you against that was well?

          • Randal

            A non sequitur. I was writing about the attempt to render particular political positions taboo, not about particular policy issues. You raise a separate topic, which I would be happy to discuss elsewhere.

  • davidofkent

    By and large, the West has become very liberal and slightly Left in its political views. Thus anybody who suggests that edging towards self-reliance and national pride is immediately called a fascist by all the usual suspects. The signs are, however, that many, many ordinary people are fed up with (not of) being harangued by virtue-signalling children whenever they suggest that the Left is not sent by God to rule the earth. The world is slipping towards chaos which is the natural order (?) of things, so the Lefties should prepare themselves for considerable anguish as their ideas disintegrate and they are strangled by their own dogmas.

  • Nuahs87

    Have you lost the argument? Know for a fact that you are more reasonable and intelligent than your opponents? Why not call your opponents mad? This simple technique is highly effective and comes endorsed by Tory wets such as Matthew Paris, Alex Massie, Hugo Rifkind and many many more. Remember, you are smarter than everyone else, so if the public won’t accept your argument, what alternative could there be?

  • Brexit

    Gray the covert Trotskyist speaks.

    • hobspawn

      overt

      • Brexit

        co as he professes to be Conservative. Unlike your Marxist self.

  • Sid Falco

    Bore off. A headline in search of an coherent argument.

  • Bill Fitzgerald

    You bet we are mad, but it is not insanity. We are mad angry at the way our countries and cultures have been trashed by the liberal left over the last 40 or so years. We are blamed for having an empire, blamed for the holocaust, blamed for world poverty and everything else that has so called blighted the world. Our countries have been allowed to be overun and colonised by mass immigration. Yes we are mad alright but we are coming to take back our countries so the left better move aside.

    • Vieuxceps2

      Agreed. But,Bill, how mny think as you and I do? PC and minority-hate-laws govern our lives and our apathy allows it.

    • Reading comments by Americans there is an outrage against the ‘social justice’ excesses of screaming ‘white cis gendered scum’ at anyone who doesn’t agree with Marxist collectivist concepts.

      But a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

  • Bob3

    Centre Right parties in the EU have to serve Brussels, you cannot compare them with the Centre Right in the USA, they are free to do the right thing if they are elected.

    • Jojje 3000

      In the US there is Washington DC.

  • RavenRandom

    It all comes down to disenfranchisement; when all the major parties ignore the will of the people (a collusion of the elite as to what is best), then the electorate sees that their democracy has in effect being hijacked. So there are votes in representing those issues the elite will not discuss. None of it is irrational.

    • right1_left1

      (…) when all the major parties ignore the will of the people (a collusion of the elite as to what is best),
      This is exactly the point.

      The article recognises that a right wing ‘varying levels of extremity reaction’ is sweeping across Europe and many say that but for connivance or corrupt electoral systems would have managed more political influence than has been possible.

      It has take the Brits a very long time to realise that on many major issues they have no voice at all.
      Absurd levels of ‘welfareism’
      Gay marriage.
      Permissiveness in general.
      Immigration.
      Attitudes to law and order.
      Sending troops hither and thither.
      Lies over Lisbon treaty and the tendency to federalism built in to the EU but never mentioned when we originally joined.

      Trump and others who think along similar lines are symptoms of lack of real franchise and are trying to apply long overdue corrections.

      • gunnerbear

        I’m not trying to be provocative – I’m a MOR voter leaning towards NOTA at the moment – but what is it with some on the right about SSM / Gay Marriage? When politics comes up in the pub, it’s never a topic that seems to warrant even a mention?

        As to attitudes to law and order, I’m a bit confused….what do you mean?

        • right1_left1

          I think you have given the game away by saying ‘whenever politics comes up in the pub’
          In fact it rarely does.
          Not when division of opinion is involved anyway.

          re ‘law and order’: during the 70s/80’s in particular there was large scale disatisfaction over the treatment of the criminal fraternity.
          Do you remember the young thugs being taken to Egypt in order to teach them crime was wrong?
          Do you remember public attitudes to police harassment of motorists while crime (violence burglary) spiralled ?

          Even today the overwhelming number support the death penalty.
          On that score I saw a programme on the Black Panther (Donald Neillson) last night (1st April.)
          If necessary look up what he did and decide whether you think he should have been executed

          • gunnerbear

            I can assure you that because of the EU vote, politics does come up in the pub quite often – there are wide range of opinions. Mind you the ‘pub newspapers’ are the Times and the Daily M. because the owner likes them! As to the Death Penalty, polling seems to be mixed… http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822 https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/08/13/capital-punishment-50-years-favoured/ I’m not in favour of Capital Punishment but do believe ‘life’ should mean ‘whole life tariff’.

          • right1_left1

            How many people who read the Sun or the Mirror visit your local ?
            My point being that such people by and large cant tolerate dissent !

            Re polls and capital punishment it depends on what question you ask.
            eg
            Should pregnant women be executed ?
            Bearing in mind possible miscarriages of justice are you in favour of the death penalty ?

            Our judicial system is not as just as it believes itself to be and wastes far too much money.
            A court with the adversarial system muted or even removed should decide whether or not the defendant is guilty.
            If applicable independant open minded experts should decide whether the death penalty should be applied. Clearly those who reject the death penalty should have no voice.
            Their voice would be heard in a referendum as to whether capital and while we are at it corporal punishment should be re introduced.
            The case for corporal punishment seem to be incontravertable to me !

            The UK wont even execute those who want to die.
            Ian Brady for example !

          • gunnerbear

            The Sun newspaper was on the bar at the weekend! 🙂 “If applicable independant open minded experts should decide whether the death penalty should be applied. Clearly those who reject the death penalty should have no voice.” Might make picking a jury a tricky business as a potential guilty verdict would result in a capital sentence in a person was found guilt of some crimes…..if the DP was restored. “The case for corporal punishment seem to be incontravertable to me !” Really? Why?

          • right1_left1

            re the death penaly:
            I think that when any individual homicide is considered the experienced panel would not have difficulty in decidng whether the death panalty should be applied bearing in mind that no one would be present who was against execution in principle.
            See Donald Nielson The Yorkshire Ripper and even Ruth Ellis.

            In situations like a bar fight where death may occur I think the panel would realise that by and large a death penalty is not applicable.
            Could be if a knife was used for example.

            Re corporal punishment:
            We have large numbers of young men who commit crimes that community sentencing or even youth offender institutions do not deter but are very costly to run.
            The recidivism for youth crime is very high.

            If at the time they started their criminal careers they were made to realise that society will not tolerate what they do I believe they would evidence a change in behaviour.
            It’s certainly worth atry.
            30/40 years of soft option treatment has failed completely.
            The mind benders who repeatedly try rehabiliition should be shamed out of existence.

    • Bonzo

      Well put, that is exactly the point. Immigration and the economy are the top two issues in opinion polls, yet the three traditional parties (LibLabCon) have all lied on these two issues. Remember Blair’s various statements about controlling immigration (a good example is his speech to the CBI in 2004). Gordon Brown saying he had ended boom and bust. Cameron saying immigration would be in the tens of thousands. Osborne saying he would balance the books by 2015.
      Is it surprising people no longer trust the main parties and look for an alternative? Freddy Gray talks about the right, what about Syriza, Podemos, Corbyn etc? All symptoms of the failure of the traditional parties.

  • Torybushhug

    All cosy establishments come to an end, and establishment members are the last to see it

    All of Scandinavia and several other EU nations are witnessing a rapid rise of proper right wing parties, some are now in coalition or in full charge, Poland and HUngary for example. Austria is about to vote in a proper right wing Presidmet.

    The liberal establishments services are no longer required

  • licjjs

    Well I would like the altogether out-of-place statue of Mandela removed from Parliament Square. I have always seen it as completely anomalous. What ‘faux’ outrage do you think that would provoke in the present incumbent of the White House and in South Africa and other African countries?

    • Central power

      The problem with the Mandela statue is that it was erected during his lifetime. Was it put up because of some EU directive? Perhaps Boris would let us know.

  • Prof Raus

    Having agreed to water down the Trade Union Bill in return for Union support and money for his remain campaign, Cameron has his first reward in a joint article with Brendan Barber in the Guardian today. The article apart from the usual scare mongering, discloses a most unusual situation. A Tory Prime Minister and a Socialist ex Union boss (now knighted and part of the great and good) suggesting that workers rights are at risk if BREXIT succeeds because “All are guaranteed by Europe and all could be at risk if we left”. (By Europe they mean EU)

    Corbyn and the hard left have been honest in saying that the EU guarantees their vision of a socialist future. Now Dave says it too – democracy is damaging the EU vision. Their answer is to stay inside an organisation that will deny British citizens any possibility of deciding their own laws or representation. As Jean Claude Juncker said in reference to the Greek referendum “There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties.” I expect that from an EU fanatic but not from a British Prime Minister. Cameron has forfeited any claim to democratic legitimacy, something he plainly despises.

    • licjjs

      So what they are saying is that, in the case of Brexit, all future democratically elected UK governments and Parliaments will be composed of selfish blackguards who will not have the good of the British workers at heart? (No change there then.)

      • Prof Raus

        You obviously do not believe in democracy or people’s rights to determine their own future. Rather than pathetic insults you should try and explain why.

        • Prof Raus

          This is embarrassing. I hit reply and did so without properly reading your reply, sorry.

        • licjjs

          I can’t understand your comment. I could not be more in favour of ‘Brexit’. My point was that Cameron and the Union man, by saying that workers rights would not be protected, were implying that a British government and Parliament would not protect them.

          • Mary Ann

            Well a right wing government wouldn’t protect them, it would be against their interests.

          • sparrow-hawk

            Good grief woman. Are you senile, or simply a troll? Labour can be and IS voted in regularly.
            .Brexit returns our nation to the normal mainstream of world nations – over a HUNDRED of them – which determine their own policies. Democracy (remember that?) means that a workers’ rights Labour agenda will always be chosen by the elctorate, some time.

          • Prof Raus

            I posted a PS that has disappeared apologising for not reading your comment properly and hitting the reply button too quickly.

            I’m sorry and sorry that my apology has gone missing.

    • Mary Ann

      Most British laws are made in Britain if they weren’t we wouldn’t be having this referendum.

      • sparrow-hawk

        The primary one’s AREN’T. Mass immigration is bringing our NHS to its knees – Prof Angus Dalgleish, Principal of cancer Vaccine Institute, world-wide expert in his field:

        http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/09/britains-health-service-on-its-knees-thanks-to-mass-migration-says-cancer-specialist/

        Mass immigration is raping our housing stock, in turn raping our green belt, producing gridlock levevls of traffic congestion in southern England.

        But for YOU, a True Believer in the “One True Religion” of ever-closer-disaster, for you, a Soviet style sytem is preferable to democracy, isn’t it?

        In the Soviet Union, all decisions were made over the heads of the people by a self-selecting elite, and the people’s role was to read in the newspapers today, what the elite decided for the people yesterday.

        The EU is now just the same. But just like the Soviet Marxists, you don’t give a damn about democratic accountability of the leadership, because like them you believe. You know we are building the future!.

        You should rename your (phoney) username to MARY JANE – as you must be smoking lots of it.

    • gunnerbear

      The TU Bill was so partisan it ran into trouble – it was designed as a means of stopping funding for Labour whilst also making sure that ‘Business’ could keep pouring money into one particular party – the Lords were never going to wear that…..

  • Lucy

    And either way, Freddy Gray gets his money.

  • John Carins

    Trump has begun his sensible campaign with a a speech on foreign policy. His ideas were principled and plain common sense. I liked the bit where he said the nation state was of fundamental importance and that the US should support its true allies. Like Boris he is a Brexiteer and that can only be a good thing.

    • The Reincarnated Sausage

      Boris is a committed Europhile. He has been a long term supporter of Turkey’s entry into the EU.. The establishment has very cleverly ensured that their own people control the “leave” lobby but they are not genuine at all. They want renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU, not the firm and final divorce from the EU fascists that I and many others want.

      As Lenin famously said, The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves.

      By choosing BJ and Carswell (a tory 5th columnist and infiltrator) to lead the the Brexit campaign, they are guaranteeing failure.

      Trump however is a different story. He might just be a genuine anti-establishment candidate. The continuous character assassination of Trump in the media suggests to me that he is genuine. Boris Johnson isn’t. Boris Johnson cares about Boris Johnson………and very litttle else.

      • John Carins

        You could well be right about Boris. The jury is still out. If he is just opposing for his own interests then so what. Cameron is rattled and that is a good thing.

      • hobspawn

        If Leave wins, and then we don’t leave, which party do you think will win the 2025 general election?

        • The Reincarnated Sausage

          I venture that the Tories will stay in power under BJ. Cameron will be a busted flush and Corbyn is totally unelectable. The Lib dems? Where are they? They don’t even exist anymore. And UKIP has been subverted and neutralised as an existential threat to the status quo by Tory party infiltration.

        • Mary Ann

          Depends what happens between the vote and after the realisation that we are not leaving.

      • David Beard

        oris is a committed Europhile. He has been a long term supporter of Turkey’s entry into the EU.. The establishment has very cleverly ensured that their own people control the “leave” lobby but they are not genuine at all. They want renegotiation of Britain’s relationship with the EU, not the firm and final divorce from the EU fascists that I and many others want.

        Amazing though how many so called right-wingers think he’s some sort of Trump figure.

        • Mary Ann

          So when is Boris going to muck things up for the leavers, or was the faux-pas about Obama it.

  • Aethelflaed

    Oh dear, Boris called Obama “part-Kenyan”, he must be mad, not just in the US sense but, lordy, in the UK sense as well !!!!!

    Meanwhile, in the Houses of Parliament, where the serious discuss whether it is ‘nobler to leave the EU or not’ – Cameron of the 6th Etonian Flashman brigade, said that Nigel Farage was a ponce because of the way he pronounced his name. Therefore the UK has to stay in the EU. Such a good point.

    • hobspawn

      Talk amongst Old Etonians is that Cameron has really let the school down.

      • Aethelflaed

        Well they should debag him then, or whatever they do to expel people who have brought disrepute on the establishment, and is a traitor and Quizling.

        • iand

          OH how I love a good debaging, in my old ice hockey team debagging meant stripping , we would leave him in his pants and pulled them right up his bloody crack, till it bleeds.

  • The Reincarnated Sausage

    What is happening is a renaissance in libertarian conservativism.

    We’ve had 40 years of neo-liberalism, a toxic brew of big government busy bodies advancing cultural Marxism in combination with casino corporatism to asset strip nations, destroy the middle class, rack up trillions in debt, manipulate house prices out of the reach of ordinary people, offshore all the jobs that used to provide a reasonable standard of living for our people, mass immigration to suppress any nationalist leanings, political correctness gone mad, control of media and the suppression of dissenting opinions, the creation of hate crimes to suppress free speech etc etc etc

    The list goes on and on and on

    Well, WE’VE HAD ENOUGH OF YOU PEOPLE! WE HAVE HAD IT WITH YOU

    GEDDIT!?

    We are going to take back our nations, our freedoms and our future prosperity and if we can’t achieve this through democratic means, we’ll do by force.

    The revolution will start in America, but it’s coming here and to the rest of Europe.

    The establishment is rattled, as they should be. We’re coming for you and we’re taking back everything you’ve stolen from us over the last 40 years

    • iand

      Hear bloody Hear !!!!!!!

    • victor bruyn

      I wish you were right. But the mass media will play it’s role. With Trump and with the Brexit.
      Mark my words, the (media) shall tell you the world is at it’s end, if you vote yes for Brexit. The same applies for Trump. Don’t underestimate the power of MSM

      • Pip

        Only the ignorant are still seeking information from the mainstream.

        • sparrow-hawk

          Trouble is, they are they voting majority. But fortunately even they are awakening to the outrages of mass immigration, if only by daily being caught in the rising traffic jams plaguing southern England especially.

          • The audience figures for the MSM definitively show they are no longer the central formats for mass communication.

      • The MSM has been losing its authority for years. Check the number of readers for the newspapers and for BBC programmes: They are are in catastrophic freefall (no matter how many times the BBC fiddle the viewing figures). The MSM is losing out, and that’s one of the reasons some journalists are panicking ….

    • Mary Ann

      God spare anyone who isn’t a White Male.

      • Itinerant

        Really, why is that? he doesn’t mention race in his comment whatsoever. (don’t worry Mary Ann I don’t expect a cogent answer or for you to even read my comment)
        “white British men from poor backgrounds are five times less likely to go into higher education than others”
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationopinion/12135404/Camerons-focus-on-race-in-discussions-about-university-inequality-is-misplaced.html
        Does that apply to poor white males or just the wealthy?

        Personally I couldn’t care less about the concentration of melanin in someone’s epidermis but you leftists seem obsessed with race.

        • oldoddjobs

          The melanin differences are the least important biological differences, why you are selecting to mention them is somewhat baffling.

          • Itinerant

            I didn’t mention Winnie the Pooh either, does that mean I’m fond of honey?
            besides Mary Ann brought it up for no apparent reason, speak to her.

    • Sean L

      Although I couldn’t agree with you more I can’t see how anyone could be a libertarian *and* a conservative – isn’t it a contradiction in terms? What could be more libertarian in principle than mass immigration, allowing people the freedom to live where they please irrespective of national borders? All the leftist causes are in essence libertarian, prizing the individual’s freedom to do as he pleases over any consideration for the greater good, the well being of society generally, still less those of succeeding generations who must inherit the mess and disorder we leave behind. That’s what conservatism is about, honouring the memory of those who’ve come before us, to whom we owe whatever freedoms we possess, as the only means of maintaining or conserving them for those yet to come. Forgive the pedantry, it’s only a word.. but as a conservative I can’t stomach libertarianism, Besides, how could a society be more libertarian than this one already is, without ceasing to be a society at all?

      • magi83

        Libertarianism is a broad term. I prefer to call myself a Minarchist.

        On the subject of open borders, how much immigration do you think there would be without a welfare state?

        • Sean L

          Probably more given that economic growth would be that much greater. The rate of urbanisation in Africa is colossal. Immigration is the same thing on a global scale. The welfare state doesn’t in itself drive it however it might appear that way from our point of view.

        • The Reincarnated Sausage

          Yes. I think you have a much better understanding of what libertarianism is about.

          Libertarianism is really centered about the concept of individual sovereignty, the notion that you are responsible for your own life, your own merits and shortcomings and you are ultimately responsible for your own success or failure in life.

          It’s a much harsher system than socialism, but ultimately, it’s a much more natural holistic system of life management.

      • The Reincarnated Sausage

        I think you’re confusing libertarianism and liberalism. They are not the smae

        Libertarianism is all about small government and less state intrusion. Those are conservative values too………..or they used to be before the left subverted conservative politics. Libertarianism is about people taking responsibility for their own lives and falling on their sword when things don’t turn out right. Libertarians on the right wing are fiscal conservatives who believe in sound money, governments and people living within their means. Libertarians also believe that the state does not have an automatic right to confiscate your wealth via taxation. Immigrants coming into our country would be expected to be nett contributors to the economy. There would be no benefits or safety nets available for immigrants. It would be sink or swim. Contribute and self support or stay away. Libertarians do not believe in peoples’ entitlement to the labour and hard graft of others.

        “All the leftist causes are in essence libertarian, prizing the individual’s freedom to do as he pleases over any consideration for the greater good”

        You couldn’t be more wrong about that. Socialism is a collectivist ideology and collectivism is all about the supremacy of the state over the individual. Socialists abhor individualism. They are paternalistic control freaks who want to micromanage every aspect of your life and they believe that your earnings belong to the state before they belong to you and your family.

        “Besides, how could a society be more libertarian than this one already is, without ceasing to be a society at all?”

        We are million miles away from living in a libertarian environment.

        • Sean L

          Yes good points with which I mostly agree. But I’d see that more as economic liberalism of the kind advocated by FA Hayek which presupposes a law governed society, a stable social order. Whereas libertarianism places the highest value on individual liberty. Left wing causes can and are justified on libertarian grounds: there’s no greater constraint on sexual freedom than the family, for example, which is why conservatives seek to defend it as the best environment for rearing children. That’s because conservatism values social order over individual liberty. The other point I’d make is that you’re starting from a theoretical definition of what you call “socialism”. I agree that yours a valid definition of the word. But when I speak of people never being more free to do as they please than ever before I’m not talking about any particular political or economic theory but my own experience. When I was a child single parents were pretty much unheard of. Nowadays you’re free to bonk whom you please. That’s the triumph of libertarianism, and it’s not just in the sexual realm. But that’s the area where libertarianism has had the most profound effects. And it could just as well be explained in terms of “capitalism” as “socialism” – these being nothing but idealisations of our economic arrangements. Interpreting the world through such concepts, it’s easy to regard the map before the territory. Which points to another difference between the conservative and libertarian or liberal conception of politics. And that’s the idea of politics as goal directed or teleological. The libertarian mirrors the socialist not just in his economic determinism but in his vision of a new social order, where individuals are truly free. Of course the means to achieve this end and their view of what constitutes real freedom might be opposed, but that’s how they see politics, as directed towards those ends: in the one case via a “small state”, in the other, a larger one perhaps. Though in the Marxist vision the state is supposed to eventually wither away. Thus Madsen Pirie of The Adam Smith Institute once told me that the libertarians of his ilk were the true Marxists, because only their vision could bring about the kind of personal freedom that Marx envisaged. But the conservative has no such grand vision, regarding politics more as keeping the ship of state afloat, averting disaster. As Enoch Powell, a man who actually promoted liberal economic policies, but who also told Margaret Thatcher he’d “fight for this country even if it had a communist government”, put it, “All political careers must end in failure because that is the nature of politics and of human affairs.” And his example points to the over-arching difference between libertarianism or liberalism and conservatism, which is that politics is ultimately a question of allegiance rather than theory or ideology.

          • The Reincarnated Sausage

            Yeah. I think you are still confused about the difference between liberalism and libertarianism.

            Karl Marx said that in order for the global revolution to take place, the founding pillars of western civilization would have to be destroyed first.

            1. Christianity

            2. The traditional family

            3. The nation state

            You are still conflating libertarianism with liberalism and socialist ideas. They are fundamentally different. Worlds apart

          • Sean L

            Sure.

          • The Reincarnated Sausage

            Libertarians believe in the rule of law, but are strong defenders of natural rights rather than law prescribed by a political class

            Hayek was astounding! He was very switched on

    • Have you seen that a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

    • gunnerbear

      All parties voted for by the Great British Electorate…….it’s funny, until white collar jobs started to disappear……the middle classes thought that Thatcher’s brand of neo-liberal economics and globalism was great……now suddenly the policies they voted for are smashing them in the teeth…..hellfire…the middle classes are up in arms……

  • WFC

    Like so many of the nu-patricians, you seem to think that writing an insulting comment about somebody – “poncey” seems to be the insult de jour – constitutes a refutation of their politics.

    Argument by insult is all the modern elite seem to know.

    • trobrianders

      Used effectively by Nazis in the 1930s. Isn’t that why we draw parallels to that decade?

  • Central power

    For German Ctizenship you need.:
    a valid Aufenthaltserlaubnis or Aufenthaltsberechtigung residency permit
    to be legally resident in Germany for at least 8 years
    a livelihood-guarantee of you and your dependents without recourse to social welfare or unemployment benefits (exceptions are made for people under of 23 years)
    adequate knowledge of the German language (B1 level)
    you have to give up your former citizenship
    no past criminal convictions

    For British Citizenship you need:
    to have lived in the UK for 5 years (out of which no more than 450 days are spent abroad)
    no serious (whatever this means) criminal convictions.
    and perhaps some friend sitting on you behalf (for a not unsubstantial bakshish) the Citizenship Test

    Just another example of the superior UK laws to those of the other members of the EU.
    Some home grown freedoms: highest student debt in the world, freedom not to charge for motorway use and a consequently crumbling infrastructure. The right to have the most bureaucratic health system in the EU .The right to divert all the money towards the NHS and thus have no money left on the defense and border control.The right not to have any personal ID documents.The right to have the craziest targets for CO2 reduction.The right not to have any form of steel industry in comparison say to Germany. One could go on and on.

    Great things awaits us once we are free from the EU yoke.

    • hobspawn

      Das ist verboten! Mutti uber alles! Arbeit macht frei! Et cetera. The real problem with Britain, as you rightly point out, is that it is not ruled by Germans. It is ruled by the Saxe-Coburg-Gothas. If only the whole world could be ruled by Germans, mankind would never err. All systems would be correct. But do not worry, we have a referendum coming shortly, and the British establishment are going to fix it so that we will be ruled by the Germans forever more. Nothing can go wrong with the plan. It has been organised in Brussels.

    • Mary Ann

      Getting rid of the postal vote would discriminate against the disabled, and of course all those Britons living in Mainland Europe.

      • Central power

        I hope this may be of help: For example Israel does not have an absentee ballot system for all citizens. Absentee ballots are restricted to soldiers, prisoners, sailors, overseas diplomats, disabled persons and hospitalized people. The votes are not cast directly but placed in a double envelope with identifying information and counted directly by the elections committee only after verifying that the voter has not voted at his official polling station. Most absentee ballots are cast on the day of the elections in alternate polling stations. Early voting is limited to civil servants overseas.As for the expat Brits I believe some arrangement could be made – voting at the consulates or secure voting on line for example using something like the Government Gateway.All preferable to the huge voting fraud in the UK.In common with Israel we have a substantial Muslim population. Perhaps the day when the UK voters will have to dip their thumbs in an indelible ink are not far away.

  • D J

    I am curious.Is it not uncomfortable sitting on an ivory armchair in an ivory tower getting dreadful eye strain peering de haut en bas?
    How many murders and rapes are acceptable from your altitude?

    • jeffersonian

      Brilliant post.

      • DW Jory

        Thankyou.

    • sparrow-hawk

      The number is….INFINITY.

  • trobrianders

    Isn’t this type of sneering journalism better suited to the fascists at the Guardian/Indy?

    • iand

      You mean Quardian don’t you ?

    • JohnnyNorfolk

      or the DT.

  • BillRees

    The right isn’t “tearing itself apart” as the writer suggests.

    Under the leadership of Trump it is identifying issues and setting out how it proposes to deal with them, while making it clear that the left’s mindset won’t prevail.

    For a change the right is refusing to play along with the left’s view of the world.

    I’m surprised that a supposedly right wing magazine like the Spectator can’t see this.

    • fundamentallyflawed

      Because its not right wing… in the same way that the Tory government isn’t really right wing either. Its a centralist Westminster centric publication

      • Mary Ann

        It’s not centralist, it’s still right wing although it makes a refreshing change to see a different point of view.

    • iand

      Is the Spectator doing a Telegraph ? I’ve only just cancelled my subscription to that rag.

      • Lady Magdalene

        Same here. When they took away the facility to comment on their articles, I stopped paying. I didn’t pay to read their “pearls of wisdom” with no right of reply.

    • Mary Ann

      You don’t like any other point of view.

      • sparrow-hawk

        We certainly don’t like delusion, exemplified by you endless pro-EUSSR apologism.

    • Reading comments by Americans there is an outrage against the ‘social justice’ excesses of screaming ‘white cis gendered scum’ at anyone who doesn’t agree with Marxist collectivist concepts.

      But a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

  • enoch arden

    There is a popular right-wing revolution going on. People are fed up with liberal totalitarian globalism and political correctness. Trump was the first who dared to state the problem: millions of illegals in the US, and the Moslem immigration brings terrorism. Why nobody of the so-called “right-wing” establishment ever mentioned it? Because they are completely corrupt. And the ordinary people want them to go.

    • Have you seen that a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day? For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

      • enoch arden

        The entire activity called “social sciences” has to be expelled from the universities, and the degrees cancelled. There is no science in that activity.

        A very simple way to kill all the charlatan “humanities”: to force them to pass a standard test in mathematics. 99% of the will definitely fail. Then they will be explained that there can be no education without knowledge of the basic mathematics.

        Vladimir Arnold, one of the greatest modern mathematicians, has pointed out that the people who failed to learn the profs of the theorems of Euclidean geometry cannot think logically and are not able to discriminate between right and wrong statements.

        • MMo

          hi enoch – I’m genuinely curious here, you would like to see History, Political Science, International Relations, Sociology, and foreign language departments etc. removed from all universities, correct? And if people are interested in any of those, they would have to do it on their own time as a hobby, correct?

          Would you want to keep in Economics and Management/MBA? Or basically just reduce every single university to a technical university [hard sciences and engineering only]? Not being arguementative, I am genuinely curious

          • enoch arden

            Let us clear it up. History is a useful and legitimate science. Linguistics too. I have a friend, a computer scientist, who was seriously involved in structural linguistics. We talked about it: a very interesting branch of mathematics.

            The rest three, and Management have nothing to do with whatever science and, therefore, cannot be regarded as a part of general education which universities are supposed to provide.

            We have to separate two distinctly different things: general education and professional training. The latter is needed to produce managers, diplomats, social workers (if these are needed), as well as medical nurses and plumbers. Education is something different. It is supposed to provide students with capacity to think. Von Laue said: education is what remains in your head when you forgot what you were taught. Nothing will remain in your head after a course in MBA , sociology or Foreign Relation.

  • Freddythreepwood

    Wrong! Conservatism is not tearing itself apart. It is re-asserting itself. I did an immediate search on this article, because I just knew the word ‘populism’ would crop up, and sure enough, there it was. Nothing is being ‘torn apart’. All that is happening is that we are getting the long predicted backlash against political correctness and liberal/left domination of our instutions and our lives.
    You ain’t seen nuthin yet!

    • Reading comments here in America there is an outrage against the ‘social justice’ excesses of screaming ‘white cis gendered scum’ at anyone who doesn’t agree with Marxist collectivist concepts.
      But a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

  • Polly Radical

    That sound you can hear is a political class being caught with its trousers down.

  • paul

    … same as ours old boy !!!

  • ThatOneChap

    People voted for the Conservatives in 2010 and 2015 to reverse what was seen as the damage done to this country by New Labour and presumed inability of the Coalition to defend British liberty and reverse that damage due to being shackled to the Liberal Democrats, who were anything but. And now we’re seeing that the Conservative Party, as people thought it existed, does not. The record number of UKIP voters shows that quite a few people saw what has become very clear in the last year; the Conservative Party Leadership is not conservative, but vaguely centre left, leaning on centrist at best and is essentially a continuation of the Blair and Brown days.

    • iand

      And that’s the trick being pulled all over Europe, opposing parties telling you what you want to hear. There is no democracy, just the world elites colluding with the MSM to bring Marxism to the western civilisation.

    • Mary Ann

      The Tories cannot by any stretch be called slightly left when they make the disabled pay for the mistakes of the bankers.

      • iand

        Well Gordon Brown had no problem with it, is he not of the left ?

  • JSC

    A bit of an odd title, I’ve never seen ‘the right’ so unified as it is now. Surely you just mean the Conservative party?

    • David Beard

      I think they call them ultra Conservatives over there. Just as we call it the ‘far-right’ over here.

  • David Beard

    And in his efforts to persuade Britain to leave the European Union, Boris seems to be appealing to the same anti-politics mood that Trump is exploiting across the pond.

    I’m no fan of Boris but this is utter garbage. And I also think a bit lookist. I mean, can the man really help resembling some political ogre across the pond? In fact , and this is true, I once knew a man in the ANL, and he was dead ringer for Reinhard Heydrich.
    He was also fervently Jewish.

  • stephengreen

    What is this sprawling mess of an essay about?

    Surely it must be deeper (being of such length) than that the populist right are mad and us sane conservatives types (who believed in hundreds of genders, homosexual marriage, equality legislation, mass immigration if it serves the economy etc) really represent The True Conservatism™?

    The clock must be ticking on new British publications on the right, to usurp the thin gruel that exists there.

  • iand

    In your dreams Fred, when the revolution comes, you media elites will be up in the doc along with the lying politicians, just hope your nefarious plot doesn’t lead to a bloody civil war first because I don’t think it ended very well for the SS and their collaborators after the last great war.

    • stephengreen

      The media elites hold the purse strings. He’s a poorly paid gopher.

  • iand

    Can anyone else smell desperation, because to me, this article reeks of it.

    • Chris

      *puts hand to gooey bloated bug*

      “It’s afraid!”

  • MrBishi

    I’m not sure that pointing out the facts to the right wing ever achieves much.
    They seem to prefer to be lied to.

  • YouthofMarathonHERMES

    When it comes to liberal socialist policies and those who advocate them the media bends over backwards in support of them.

    Obama is always photographed in a dignified manner. Articles on Obama praise everything he does, says and even how he looks. So far President Obama has come out as the only President that has not done one single mistake or any said any “loopy” words.

    That is not true when it comes to conservative policies and those who advocate them. These conservative policies and the people who support them are ridiculed, dismissed and the slightest mistake of word, deed or looks are immediately attacked. This article is full of that.

    • Mary Ann

      Most of the press is Tory. Press Barons are rich and don’t like paying tax.

      • davidblameron

        they would if tax was fair ; people slag off the ‘stinkin’ rich’ but the top 1% pay 27.4% of income tax – official.

      • Trailblazer10

        Globalism is the far left and corporatists working together.Almost the entire mass media is pro EU, pro mass immigration, and hostile to western civilization.

        • sparrow-hawk

          SPOT ON. The Unholy Alliance between the power-hungry Left and the power-hungry Corporations and Bankers. Leftists like the EU troll “Mary Ann” must be masters of Orwellian double-think.

          • WTF

            One could think that but that’s giving her too much credence !

      • Terry Mushroom

        Who guards the Guardian?

      • 9sqn

        Who does like paying tax ?

      • WTF

        So what, there is very little difference between Blair & Cameron or Tories & Labour, thats the problem. They both suck up to donors, they both have the same progressive liberal policies that are destroying the country and they both have sold out the electorate.

      • Wee Mental Davie

        Abstract question Mary Ann. Are you a commie ?

    • A man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. He’s a leftie but he thinks the world has gone made on marxist based ideas that are being indoctrinated in Uni.

      For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

  • Raymond Huntley

    I wonder what if that “serious” has even a tiniest idea about threat of climate change… for me it is very important and I really dont want to see such man being a president of the strongest country in the world. Without US backing climate policy everything we’ve accomplished will be lost and probably we will postpone next ice age for another 50,000 years, http://blog.pulawy.com/en/the-next-ice-age-postponed-by-50000-years/

    • Kennie

      The climate change could be seriously slowed down if, instead of making UK’s energy too expensive in order to subsidise useless windmills, they could do something about stopping all those in South America & Indonesia from cutting down/burning all the rain forests.

      • woohoo002

        How the f*ck are they going to pay back the World Bank and the IMF if they don’t rape their countries resources /s

  • davidblameron

    Go Donald : TRUMP for Pres. Let’s see you wipe the floor with the Democrat woman, if she can survive indictment until November 8

  • Frank

    Freddy, Cameron doesn’t run a “centre-right government” and UKIP is not a manifestation of a “right-wing insurgency”.
    What you have had, in very broad terms, is a metropolitan blob running things fairly badly from 1997 to 2016, and pretending that Cameron is materially different from Blair is dancing on the head of a pin.
    Last night I heard that the Head of the South Yorkshire Police Force has been suspended for saying “something in the wrong way” about the Hillsborough football disaster (in an mega extended news report on all channels).
    I cannot recall that the Head of South Yorkshire Police Force was suspended/sacked/prosecuted after it was discovered that 1400 girls had been sexually abused in Rotherham (without an extended mega news report on all channels).

    • sparrow-hawk

      Don’t forget the West Midlands “Police”, who prosecuted Channel Four Dispatches for their TV “Undercover Mosque”, revealing the Muslim Preachers and literature routinely spouting HATRED OF US and western Democracy. They prosecuted the whistle-blowers! They left the HATE SPEECH evil-doers untouched! Totally!

      The West Midlands Police are traitors to the people they are supposed to serve, just as the South Yorkshire – brainwashed by their Blair-instigated “consciousness raising training” (Common Purpose propaganda brainwashing).

      Footnote: Ch 4 Dispatches successfully sued these sick b@**@rds for a public apology and thousands in compensation.

  • Edward Studor

    ‘the left is tearing itself apart everywhere’
    Fixed it.

  • Van Sykes

    t. increasingly nervous man

    The idea that self-determination and border control are “loopy” to any so-called conservative is just more proof that the Overton Window has shifted obscenely far to the left. Just one hundred years ago, those principles were a given for most European political parties. Now we’re called “batty” and “barmy” for standing up for our respective nations.

    Frankly, the faster these metropolitan neocons get ousted from the Right, the better. If a Conservative government means military adventurism, crony corporatism, and globalism, I want nothing to do with it. Bring on June 23rd.

    • Mary Ann

      People have got used to the new freedom of movement, and taken advantage of it, it is very difficult to take away the rights that so many people value.

      • Kennie

        The great majority of the “people” that you speak about don’t know anything about ‘freedom of movement’. The only thing most people know about such movement is the fact that the country is being overrun by many more benefit takers and pick-pockets than the elite want them to know.

      • Trailblazer10

        There was no difficulty for UK passport holders moving around Europe before 1973.

        • WTF

          I agree, if the truth be told, freedom of movement is far more difficult and painful now due to terrorism than it was before we were part of the EU.

      • woohoo002

        I worked in Germany in the ’80s with a Post Office cardboard passport, you can’t get more ‘free movement’ than that 🙂

        • Order No. 227

          Yes you can, you have it now.

      • Aberrant_Apostrophe

        One man’s ‘freedom of movement’ is another man’s difficulty in getting a reasonably paid job, or even a job at all. Or a home. Or a GP appointment. Or a decent school for his kids. Or a school where 72% of the kids don’t have English as a second language.

        • gunnerbear

          Quite correct but on Radio 4 recently Digby Jones was shouting for immigration to fill the ‘skills gap’ – not once did DJ even mention training UK citizens…….and business owners adore having FoM…..

      • WTF

        I’ve always had freedom of movement over most of the globe since I started traveling in the 1970’s, nothing has changed since then other than the onerous security checks we now have to put up with. What on earth are you babbling on about ?

  • AtMyDeskToday

    “there is no Cameron-ism. The Big Society agenda — the Burkean waffle about little platoons — was a philosophical fig leaf for a party that was making up its beliefs as it went along.”

    How very true.

  • Quest for Liberty

    It’s true that parts of the Right are becoming more populist and thus more rabid but this is largely a reaction to the exponential madness developing on the left. Afterall, the left created Donald Trump. Surely you can see that?

  • woohoo002

    No one can equate Bozo with being a ‘thinking man’s’ sockpuppet, granted, he has had a good run with the leave campaign…… but normal service will be resumed shortly!

  • Sean L

    The conservative attitude is bound to be ill disposed towards politics and political activism generally, considering them at best necessary evils. But if anything merits the “crazy” tag it’s the ruling elites’ imposition of multi-culturalism, gay marriage, green taxes etc, at the expense of “normal” or traditional concerns like family life, social cohesion, defence of the realm, national sovereignty. But any attempt at a defence of these things is now slandered as “far right” by the elite and its lackeys, like this chump. But if that’s true our predecessors were all nutters, the lot of them. I read a quote from former Labour PM Harold Wilson recently. Asked what he truly believed, in an interview late in life, long after his departure from the political political scene, he replied: “Oh, Queen and country; the rest is just politics.” What a crazy, far right crackpot!

  • SeaNote

    The right is just zealous about its introspection. It is merely enthusiastic about solving its own problems and not being burdened by the failures of others. They don’t want your empathy or hysteria. Mind the tread.

  • Philsopinion

    “He tells Republican voters that the American Dream is dead and that Washington and their party have sold them out — and they love him for it.”

    Because it’s true

    • evad666

      Surely that means Trump and Farage have most in common?

    • Order No. 227

      It’s true for the bitter losers he’s targeting.

  • davidofkent

    Utter nonsense. The Left in Britain has a bit of a problem. There is precious little Right remaining, but what there is appears perfectly content to let the Left make utter fools of themselves.

  • Sean L

    There’s no such thing as “the right” at all really, in the sense of a corresponding polltical movement equivalent to “the left”. All “the right” amounts to is the political articulation of the reaction of people who feel disenfranchised by the governing classes, “the left” pursuing their radical causes, promoting their pet constituencies at the public expense. There’s no political goal as such, no millenarianism that could be construed as of the right. The so-called right are animated by no great cause or political programme, no grand vision of a “better society” where we’ll all live happily ever after. All being of the right amounts to is the desire of people to be left alone to mind their own business, equal under the rule of law, just like their predecessors. If there’s a unifying theme it’s the idea that if people generally looked out for their own families and those closest to them, with due respect for the public realm, our institutional inheritance will otherwise see us through the conflicts and disputes that are bound to arise from time to time. Largely as a result of those people who can’t just mind their own business but get off on making their business everyone else’s.

    • Sue Smith

      I’m reading Niall Ferguson’s “The Great Degeneration: How Institutions Decay and Economies Die”. In this extended essay Ferguson argues that the ‘rule of law’ has been so eroded in western democracies that it no longer functions properly. And for that we can thank the “progressive” Left. Little wonder that conservative people, the world over, are in despair. It’s not only counter intuitive but plain dumb to throttle systems of law that have evolved since Magna Carta and worked very well – for the most part.

      I’m old enough (over 60) to have lived through good times when we, as a society (in Australia), pretty much were homogeneous and shared similar values. I have witnessed the decline of our civilization and the significant destruction of its foundation – the family. And what we do get in return? Huge family dysfunction, domestic violence, alcohol and drug dependency, welfare entitlement and a generation of miserable young people who are self-harming, depressed and feeling hopeless on a scale I could never imagine in my own lifetime. This stuff is too bizarre to actually make up!!

      That’s the ‘bargain’ we’ve made with “progressives” to get the better future they mandate that we should all have.

  • Reading comments by Americans there is an outrage against the ‘social justice’ excesses of screaming ‘white cis gendered scum’ at anyone who doesn’t agree with Marxist collectivist concepts. But a man in SWINDON England has started a petition to ban social justice in universities & this is getting 8,000 signatories a day. For more read here: https://goo.gl/kOd0fj

    • Sean L

      Excellent link: the young ignoramus who writes the tripe above ought to take a look, particularly the comments from people who know whereof they speak from direct experience, having lived under Marxist rule in Eastern Europe.

      • Sue Smith

        That would require a scintilla of self-awareness – a quality not found on the Left.

      • I wrote that blog in the link (obviously the quotes are all from the petition site). Would you care to join my google+ group? https://plus.google.com/communities/101210510523447493914

        • Sean L

          Done mate. Just to show some support. But I’m not a social media animal other than for business which I have to keep separate as it would be more than my job’s worth to identify with such opinions as I put here…

        • Sean L

          There’s a lot of literature about people living a lie under the socialist regimes in Eastern Europe: everyone *knowing* that everyone else is lying. Not least those who enforce official doctrine. It’s not quite the same here but when I hear some of the tripe from some of the education bureaucrats my work brings me into contact with, who otherwise appear reasonably intelligent, I wonder whether they take it seriously or are just going through the motions like their erstwhile eastern counterparts…

    • Trailblazer10

      A feminist system can’t survive. It will become extinct.

  • Cheddarcakes

    It is IN IT FOR THE LULZ mate, get it right. The alt-right is bound by a dutiful sense of what is right and wrong (and political correctness is very wrong) and wanting to protect our communities and heritage from the likes of Labour and the Tories who seem bent on destroying Britishness in all it’s forms and forcing every anglo-saxon area to accept a flood of third world scavengers because it’s multicultural innit.

    First BREXIT, then goodbye Cameron, hello Donald, congrats Marine, FU Merkel, spazeeba Vladimir

  • Levrok Tant

    “The insurgent conservatives aren’t just angry…”

    I cannot agree with your premise. If you follow the US presidential election, you know the tone has been very angry, left and right, across the board. And the alt-right isn’t pushing it, that is completely incorrect, nobody even knows who they are.

  • Sgtsnuffy

    WE’RE LOOPY ???? WE’RE INSANE ????? NOT LIKELY THERE BOYO . WE ARE ROYALLY PISSED OFF WITH THE WAY OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN STABBED IN THE BACK BY NOT ONLY OUR SO CALLED LEADERS OF THE LAST THREE REGIMES BUT THE WORLD ALSO . WE ARE SICK AND TIRED OF BEING BLAMED FOR WHEN SOME MUZZY BLOWS HIMSELF UP AND KILLS ANOTHER BUNCH OF RAGHEADS OR FRENCHMEN OR BUTCHERS A BUNCH OF CHRISTIANS WHILE YOU COWARDS IN THE EU KOWTOW TO THE SAME SLIMES THAT WOULD KILL YOU AND RAPE YOUR WOMEN AND CHILDREN . AND THEN YOU BASH THE UNITED STATE OF AMERICA AS THE BAD GUYS. YOU’RE NOTHING BUT PATHETIC FOOLS AND COWARDS .

    • Raz

      His eyes were a blur they swivelled so fast…

  • Sue Smith

    So the Right is ‘tearing itself apart’? Find two nutjobs then find a way to personally connect them to millions and millions of other conservatives around the world. Good luck. At least the muslim connection needs MORE than two representatives to label that religion a threat to the democratic world.

  • Adam Carter

    A remarkable article.
    A long screed that can be summarised as ‘changes are coming to the world of people like me who go to agreeable dinner parties with other bien-pensant progressives.’

  • Adam Carter

    So Trump is a ‘mad postmodern joke’ ?
    Another phrase I look forward to quoting back at you as Trump wins more primaries, then the Republican nomination and then the Presidency.

  • Maureen Fisher

    Interesting how the unhinged politicians such as B Liar, Dubya, Hillary Clinton and even Obama who have either plunged us into unwinnable wars or continued the war mongering in the Middle East and foisted uncontrolled immigration on their native populations are still being presented as the reasonable politicians of international stature as opposed to Trump and others mentioned. Trump does not have the blood of millions, the creation of ISIS or the destabilizing effect on society of mass immigration on his hands, does he?

    • WTF

      The irony is that all of Trumps detractors make a big deal over his lack of foreign policy experience but when you look at the disasters we’ve seen under Bush, Obama, Clinton, Blair, Brown & Cameron perhaps we could do without their experience !

      • Maureen Fisher

        Quite!

    • Order No. 227

      Lol Obama ended those wars and kept us out of several others. Work off the facts or don’t bother.

  • Jojje 3000

    Mr Trump does not worry me a bit, to the contrary. It is Mr Sanders in the White House that give me the creeps.

  • Lady Magdalene

    An interesting article.

    The writer – just like the liberal Elite who have so corrupted our politics with their undemocratic policies and political correctness – ignored the fact that every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    The more they try to force their liberal consensus on us, the less willing we are to accept it.

    The more they ignore our polite requests for our concerns to be listened to, and appropriate action taken, the more likely we are to switch to other candidates who WILL listen and who indicate they WILL take action.

    When they force undemocratic governance upon us, we will use what democratic methods we can to force change. And eventually, if the little democratic power we have left is taken from us, some people will resort to undemocratic means.

    That’s how civil uprisings, like the IRA and ETA start.

    Mr Gray – who obviously only believes in democracy if it delivers the result he wants states:

    “In Britain, the right-wing insurgency represented by UKIP would already be a major parliamentary force were it not for the FPTP system (peace be upon it). If the House of Commons were chosen according to a proportional system, UKIP having won almost 4 million votes in May, would hold around 80 seats. And Nigel Farage’s barmy army might well have made even greater strides, had it not been for the fact that Cameron had offered a huge pre-election sop to the right by promising a referendum over Britain’s EU membership.”

    What Mr Gray is lauding is the disenfranchisement of almost 13% of British voters at the hands of a electoral system which is designed to protect the two “parties of government.”

    He might like to take a look at Scotland to see how that works out in the long run.

    The 4 million disenfranchised UKIP voters haven’t gone away. They are still here; still angry and the Conservative Government – elected with only 24% of the potential votes – hasn’t delivered anything it promised (including a free and fair EU Referendum).

    At the same time, Labour has moved sharply to the left and has adopted policies which are anathema to many working class voters.

    The upshot is that polls show UKIP is now attracting the support of 31% of working class voters …. not just from Labour, but Mrs Thatcher’s “working class Tories.”

    The Establishment Parties are not delivering what the people want. They can only maintain power by denying the people democracy. But if they continue to deny democracy, they’re likely to end up with civil unrest.

    Their choice.

    • WTF

      As predicted, Obamas intervention into the EU referendum has backfired and Cameron should have either not got him to spin on his behalf or warn him off talking about it in the first place.

      • sparrow-hawk

        Cameron is too lightweight, too lacking in maturity, too bereft of wise judgement, too contemptuous of the British people, to have foreseen the consequences of this interference.

    • gunnerbear

      When the issue of changing the voting system from FPTP to AV the Great British Electorate voted against it. The move to AV would have been the first step on the road to PR…but during the campaign, Patrick O’Flynn (Senior UKIP) wrote in the Daily Express (House Journal, UKIP) that people should vote against AV………of course in those days, UKIP believed its own propaganda that it would get dozens and dozens of seats….. …for the record, I thought UKIP would get around 8-12 seats…. The 4m UKIP voters were not ‘disenfranchised’ – they got to vote, the same as everyone else…but since a GE is 650 by-elections at the same time, UKIPs vote distribution was unhelpful.

    • gunnerbear

      In terms of the Referendum vote, HMG is delivering what it promised…..a vote on the UKs membership of the EU. What HMG is also doing is campaigning for the UK to stay in the EU – just as the PM made clear it would prior to the ’15 election…just as when HMG allowed the Scots the ‘Indie vote’, HMG wasn’t neutral, it campaigned for the Scots to stay in the UK. Even during the original vote to go into Europe, HMG wasn’t neutral…..it campaigned for the UK to join Europe.

  • David Prentice

    Oh, so, it’s evil whitey and the loopy Right, eh, Freddy? Particularly poor timing from Mz Shah, Red Ken and Mr Corbyn, then, eh? Don’t they read the Spectator? Stinkers!

  • SunnyD

    methinks the author believes that anyone not buying into the political dogma and environmental terrorism that the left and their ilk have foisted onto the population is “hard right” and so what if people are a little bit angry, annoyed or just plain don’t like what they see: liberties eroded, speech impeded all whilst vile backwards ideologies flourish and gain further ground.
    I look forward to the day the Donald wins and a Britain free from EU tyranny can speak its mind but I fear that the votes will be rigged and Freddy will be free to continue p***ing on us all from his ivory tower.
    grrrrrr

    • Order No. 227

      The fact that you call the EU “tyranny” even though you are about to get a free vote on whether to leave or not suggests that you aren’t that bright, Sunny.

      • SunnyD

        a free vote by virtue of the fact I’m British and have a vote. That’s got nothing to do with the unelected EC nor the EU as a whole. The fact that you chose to misinterpret my post suggests you need to take a valium

        • Order No. 227

          Yes so how is it tyranny?

          • SunnyD

            the unelected dictating to those of a sovereign nation doesn’t sound like tyranny Fedor? Are you so conditioned by mother Russia that you can’t see the wood for the trees?

      • sparrow-hawk

        The fact that you suffer from senility or amnesia is even more distressing.

        By “tyranny” we mean this, just to try and awaken a few brain cells:

        There were referendums held in the EU over the Constitution/Lisbon treaty. They are the same – ringmaster Valery Giscard d’Estaing said: “nous avons changé un mot ici, des mots là, mais la treatie est avec précision la même chose“……. And you know it.

        The French people voted 58% “NO”
        The Dutch people voted 63% “NO”
        The British people…suddenly had their referendum cancelled by your hero Blair, on the grounds that the treaty is now “dead”.
        The Irish people voted “NO”, and were FORCED TO VOTE AGAIN (Stalin smiles approvingly..), with an economic/financial gun held to Irish heads by the EU elite.

        But of course you love this TYRANNY since you are another deluded “True Believer” in the “True Religion” called the EU. Just like the Soviet Union, with its facade of Democracy (a dummy Parliament, with the real power elsewhere, just like your EUSSR).

      • WTF

        Its one last vestige of democracy that we have a vote for in/out but the EU didn’t give us this. Cast your mind back to the Irish referendum that went against the EU some years back as they forced Ireland to re-run it to get the ‘right’ result –

        http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/09/ireland-referendum-lisbon-treaty

        They did the same with France –

        http://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/eu-president-says-france-should-rerun-referendum-to-get-right-answer.21192/

        They will be trying it with the Netherlands over their recent Ukraine vote.

        http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/08/dutch-referendum-europe-ukraine-eu

        The EU doesn’t believe in the will of the people and “tyranny” is the right word to use but they disguise it as an enforced re-rum of a referendum to get the result they want from a member state.

        You aren’t that bright are you or you have a conveniently short memory.

        • Philip Fraser

          They also did the same with the Danes after they rejected the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 by referendum.

          • WTF

            Thanks for that.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      “…so what if people are a little bit angry,…” Only tend to be people of these forums. Most people are contented with living in the wealthiest generation ever.

      “…liberties eroded,..” I’m free to do what I could forty years ago. (except smoke in an indoor public place)

      “…speech impeded…” I’m free to say what I did forty years ago. (except make inflammatory racist remarks – which I wouldn’t have done anyway as I’m a nice person)

      “…whilst vile backwards ideologies flourish and gain further ground….” Don’t worry as the British public aren’t daft enough to buy the line of groups like Pegida.

      “I look forward to the day the Donald wins…” You are going to be waiting a very long time and so I suggest you take up a hobby to pass the time.

      “…a Britain free from EU tyranny…” That one is easier as it already exists.

      “…I fear that the votes will be rigged…” I fear that the OUT camp will use the excuse that the vote is rigged to cover their embarrassing defeat.

      • SunnyD

        “Only tend to be people of these forums. Most people are contented with living in the wealthiest generation ever.” – Wizard Rule 8: Just because you want something to be true that doesn’t mean it is.

        “I’m free to do what I could forty years ago. (except smoke in an indoor public place)” – Strange response, considering the internet wasn’t around 40 years ago yet you seemingly spend ALL your free time on Disqus peering through a microscope, poring over peoples’ posts. No doubt you’re trying to be “helpful” – I bet you’re one of those lonely grandfathers who only sees his kids and grandkids at Christmas? I wonder why. (not forgetting Wizard Rule 80: There are none so blind as those who don’t want to see.)

        “I’m free to say what I did forty years ago.” – more’s the pity. Out of concern, I’d normally advise winding your neck in, but your inflated ego makes that a physical impossibility. Plus you’re conveniently ignoring the example of Tommy Robinson, who’s rights to free speech were most definitely impeded, but I suspect in your heart of hearts you already know that.

        “…I’m a nice person)” – again, Wizard Rule 8….. But hey, opinions and a***holes and all that…..

        “Don’t worry as the British public aren’t daft enough to buy the line of groups like Pegida.” – you probably think you’re clever by inserting the word “British” because you know full well that a significant number in Europe are sympathetic to Pegida’s message (22,000 in Stuttgart, 17,500 in Dresden) – someone with has much time on his hands as you obviously have would definitely know this to be true. Fond as you are of ONS figures You really *do* come across as a sad-sack when you do that, and it reinforces my feeling that you don’t see enough of your family. Did you bore them to death? (Don’t forget Wizard Rule 80)

        “You are going to be waiting a very long time and so I suggest you take up a hobby to pass the time.” – any suggestions, Grandpa? I hear you spend a lot of time alone. Should I dust off my old train set/model railway? Take up heroin?

        “That one is easier as it already exists.” – fair enough, I got a bit emotive there with the word “tyranny”. An own goal. You must feel very pleased.

        “I fear that the OUT camp will use the excuse that the vote is rigged to cover their embarrassing defeat.” – yeah whatever. You’ve had your pound of flesh from me, old man but I’m done playing with you. I realise you crave attention but you’re gonna have to find it elsewhere. Why don’t you go away and follow your Wizard Rule 23…while I follow 58a…

        • OmnipotentWizard

          “…a significant number in Europe are sympathetic to Pegida’s message (22,000 in Stuttgart, 17,500 in Dresden…” …and in the UK about 250 who were outnumbered by the media. It made me proud to be British.

          When the fascists marched in 1930s Germany they were taken seriously. When they marched in 1930s Britain we took the P out of them. It is the reason we are such a great people – we take in waves of immigrants and make them like us.

          • WTF

            Lacking in facts again but lets look at immigration to the UK in the 20th century as reported in the Guardian –

            1/ During the first world war, 250,000 Belgian refugees arrived in the UK
            in the biggest influx of the 20th century, and not a town or village was
            left unaffected (most of them returned home after the war). This was driven by guilt in the UK failing to protect Belgium from the Germans. Net immigration – virtually zero !

            2/ Guilt was also a major factor in the arrival of 130,000 Poles between
            1939 and 1947; again, Britain had guaranteed Poland’s neutrality and
            failed.

            That’s two world wars but lets look at the wider picture and your claims that we take in waves of immigrants and make them like us. Not sure what you mean about “make them like us”, hows that done ? But anyway the rate of increase has been exponential in the past few years and is currently at 330,000 a year.

            http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefingpaper/document/48

          • English Patriot

            Like the Muslims?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Like the Muslims?” Well I don’t dislike them – I tend to take each person on their own merit; I guess that is because I’m rational.

          • English Patriot

            All right then Mr “rational” explain how we can get the likes of Jihadi John to like us.

          • There are plenty of loonies who don’t others.

            Why don’t you explain how we could have got Michael Ryan to like us?

          • English Patriot

            I wouldn’t have tried to get Michael Ryan to like us, I would have killed him as soon as he started shooting. As for the “loonies”, the likes of Jihadi John are not insane, they are pursuing a logical (from their point of view) quest to establish Islamic dominance over the West.

          • “…the likes of Jihadi John are not insane,…” Because you say so…?

            “…they are pursuing a logical (from their point of view) quest to establish Islamic dominance…” Like Anders Breivik you mean?

          • SunnyD

            I agree that our tendency to accommodate the less fortunate is a hallmark of our national identity. I don’t, however, buy into the idea that this “is the reason we are such a great people”. You’re conveniently forgetting our attempts to colonise the globe and bend natives to our will – wasn’t *that* the reason we once believed we are such a great people?
            Regardless of the numbers attending the Pegida marches, the fact that we *can* congregate to demonstrate/protest is another hallmark of the great british way of life. Aren’t you even slightly concerned that we may have invited and given succour to a population of religious zealots – some of whom would merrily watch our way of life dissipate to nothing, and most of whom have no intention of being “like us”?
            By all means, mock your fellow countrymen who’re doing nothing more than voicing their concerns. Your comments and their flavour say a lot more about you than you probably intended (and believe me, it ain’t pretty or clever). I just hope that if it comes down to a fight, you really *are* a wizard, preferably in the order of Gandalf! No doubt you’re really just another oxygen thief, waiting for christmas to come so you can see your spawn and if/when the battle comes to our doorsteps you’ll be reliant on others to fight for the freedoms you’ve been enjoying all these years.
            Namaste

          • “…our attempts to colonise the globe and bend natives to our will – wasn’t
            *that* the reason we once believed we are such a great people?” Not among most people. When the Spanish turned up at a new land they said to the natives “if you don’t become Catholics we will kill you”. When the French turned up at a new land they said to the natives “you are now a subject of the King of France, give us all your Gold”. When the British turned up at a new land they said to the natives “lets do business”. The British Empire for most of its time was a commercial enterprise and when it ceased to become profitable we gave them independence.

            “Regardless of the numbers attending the Pegida marches, the fact that we
            *can* congregate to demonstrate/protest is another hallmark of the
            great british way of life.” Agree – and the fact most people took the P out of them is another hallmark of the great british way of life.

            “Aren’t you even slightly concerned that we may have invited and given succour to a population of religious zealots…” This statement is technically known as a “Gross Exaggeration”. You are as likely to die of a bee sting in the UK as in a terrorist attack.

            “…some of whom would merrily watch our way of life dissipate to nothing,…” The Channel 4 survey put the lie to that statement.

            “…most of whom have no intention of being “like us”?” The Channel 4 survey showed that the “most” in this statement is very incorrect.

            “…your fellow countrymen who’re doing nothing more than voicing their concerns…” This statement is know by the technical term of a “Gross Understatement”.

            “Your comments and their flavour say a lot more about you than you probably intended…” Same as everyone else then.

            “No doubt you’re really just another oxygen thief,…”
            Wizard Rule 83: An Insult is the last refuge of the bigot.

            “…you’ll be reliant on others to fight for the freedoms…” If people like Pegida want to start banning thing then I’ll certainly stand up to preserve the freedom of people to live as they want.
            Wizard Rule 54: A country is not free unless it is free for everyone.

          • SunnyD

            I did add a caveat “we *may* have” – but this must have gotten missed through the lens of your microscope

            btw -you talk a lot – can’t you just show us a spell? that’s gotta be a lot more fun than endless rambling and riposting….

      • WTF

        The real Seven Pillars of Wisdom not your vacuous claims and lies !

        1/ “Most people are contented with living in the wealthiest generation ever.”

        Most people haven’t the time look closer at the lies of the elite establishment as they are too busy paying off debt and seeing their wealth diminish even if they have any. Those that do have time are generally out of work, uneducated or lemmings and wouldn’t understand the lies that you post here. The age of kids staying at home or returning to their parents homes is at record levels as they are broke and can’t afford to stand on their own feet. Grand parents are downsizing to get money to pay bills and support their kids and grand kids. Yep, the country is awash with wealth, perhaps for you but not for most.

        2/ I’m free to do what I did 40 years ago ? Not allowed to take pictures of my kids in parks, swimming pools or at school plays. Not allowed to discipline kids. Foster parents excluded due to political persuasions. Ethnic minority kids denied foster parents due to wrong color or race. Virtually every leisure activity is controlled by the HSE, cops can’t jump in a pond to save a person drowning unless they fill out a risk assessment form first. So much for our freedoms !

        3/ “speech impeded” – enough said, everything you say has to be passed by the political correctness police unless it comes from certain ethnic minorities !

        4/ “whilst vile backwards ideologies flourish” – No debate there what with be-heading on the streets, gang rapes, gun massacres and the like, the last 20 years has seen Islamic barbarism explode all over the west !

        5/ “I look forward to the day the Donald wins…” The odds are looking very favorable for Trump much to your chagrin ! Have you placed you bet yet ?

        6/ “…a Britain free from EU tyranny…” Work in progress, almost there providing Cameron doesn’t back out or the EU pull some stunt. Leave have the edge and its getting better.

        7/ “…I fear that the votes will be rigged…” Justifiable concerns considering past actions by the EU and UK governments.

        SANITY RULE No 9 – When making your points, check the facts out first else look a dumb s***!

        • OmnipotentWizard

          “Most people haven’t the time look closer at the lies of the elite establishment as they are too busy paying off debt…” Hardly. As I’ve shown you we can afford four times as many cars as a generation ago but probably the most telling sign of the staggering increase in wealth over a single generation is the length of time we spend in retirement. In 1960 men would retire at 65 and die at 70. Now most retire before 65 and die at 85. An almost five-fold increase in the time we can live off our pensions!!! Incredible!

          “Not allowed to take pictures of my kids in parks, …unless they fill out a risk assessment form first.” You should stop reading the Daily Express. There have been one or two widely publicised cases. Common sense prevails in most cases.

          “…everything you say has to be passed by the political correctness police unless it comes from certain ethnic minorities..” You are the proof that this is not the case.

          “…what with be-heading on the streets, gang rapes, gun massacres…” Never happened in the past? Try Dumblain, Hungerford, Fred & Rose West, Ian Brady, etc. As violent crime is now at an all time low then it happens less now (I wonder if that is because there are more Muslims?).

          “…gang rapes…” Try looking up Gary Cooke and what his gang did in the 1980s.

          “The odds are looking very favorable for Trump…” Only as the Republican candidate. For the presidency he has no chance.

          “…Justifiable concerns considering past actions by the EU and UK governments…” What is the source of the information about past vote rigging. I have to warn you that I won’t consider “inside your head” as a valid source.

          • WTF

            “As I’ve shown you”…..You haven’t shown anyone anything yet, we’re still waiting. Longevity is about medical care and a change in working practices like few mines, steel works and the like, its not about wealth. We need wealth because we live longer but wealth didn’t cause us to live longer.

            As for the wealth of our pensions, UK pensions are among the worst in the EU and whereas Austrian state pensions are 75% of average salary the UK’s are around 22% at £5,876 on an average salary of £26,500. Who are you trying to kid that the OAP’s in the UK get a good deal from the state.

            As for our freedoms being curtailed, you’ve repeated what I posted but so what, its true isn’t it.

            Whitehall in denial over the ‘extent’ of electoral fraud, note the word “extent”, not that it didn’t happen.

            http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/13/uk-election-fraud-whitehall-in-denial-says-eric-pickles

            SANITY RULE No 12 – To know the road ahead, ask those coming back from their own failures !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Longevity is about medical care…” Missed the point again!

            It isn’t that we are living longer (which we are) but the fact that we still retire at about the same age (or often earlier) in spite of this because we are….waits for penny to drop….more wealthy.

            We can afford (because we have more wealth) to be idle at the ends of our lives from almost five times as long as the previous generation. Staggering!

            “…its true isn’t it.” No – didn’t you understand my comment then?

            “Whitehall in denial over the ‘extent’ of electoral fraud,…” So Eric says. The result at Tower Hamlets shows the system works. Historically there have been a number of cases ever since we became a democracy and it doesn’t seem to be any worse now than a few decades ago and it seem to be a whole lot better than a hundred years ago.

          • WTF

            No, I didn’t miss the point, you changed those goal posts again.

            This extract on why people are living longer backs my assertion, not yours, try again, this is the real point !

            “This
            increase can be attributed to a number of factors including
            improvements in public health, nutrition and medicine. Vaccinations and
            antibiotics greatly reduced deaths in childhood, health and safety in
            manual workplaces improved and fewer people smoked. As a result of this –
            coupled with a decline in the fertility rate (the average number of
            children that women have in their lifetime) – many major industrial
            countries are facing an ageing population.”

            Then we have 13 reasons why people are living longer.

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alex-zhavoronkov/13-reasons-why-we-will-li_b_3519357.html

            Your point is flawed as wealth can’t fix many cancers, serious heart diseases and many people have seen a much lower quality of life due to debilitating illness’s that can’t be fixed no matter how wealthy. I’m lucky in that my gene pool appears to carry longevity and low levels of health issues in retirement but on the odd occasion I’ve visited a doctors surgery for routine checks, I’ve been amazed at the number of people between 55-65 who are in a very sorry shape compared to me at 71. So in my case, wealth has f*** all to do with my health as its primarily down to genetics from my grand parents & parents coupled with a life style that didn’t abuse my body too much.

            In contrast, close friends of mine have died over the past 8 years just shy of 60 and were in a similar demographic as I with a UK home and a Spanish villa, same wealth (modest) but they’re gone and I’m still rocking ! My wife’s brother who is 60 is probably worth $5 million at my estimate compared with my very modest assets. He has a 120 foot boat, a massive home on wheels to travel the USA and a $2 million home. He looks 75 and is almost crippled due to joint problems and obesity and everyone remarks that he’s my wife’s older brother despite being 5 years younger. Wealth certainly hasn’t helped him at all.

            The Tower Hamlets fraud was only uncovered because a private action was taken out against the Muslim fraudsters and not by the authorities.

            SANITY RULE No 15 – Real knowledge is to know the extent of ones
            ignorance !

  • WTF

    Who are the right these days Freddie Gray ? I don’t even know what left and right even means anymore as its been morphed into a nonsensical attempt to stereotype people that no longer works.

    What I do know is progressive liberals like the author here are scared s***less of changes on the horizon due to many in the electorate being sick and tired of social engineering and political correctness. Mock Johnson or Trump as much as you want but they’re not going away soon unlike the cancer of the past 2 decades from the likes of Blair, Cameron & Obama.

    • The problem is they don’t realise these were/are a cancer.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      “…changes on the horizon due to many in the electorate being sick and tired of social engineering and political correctness…” You are going to be SO disappointed.

      “Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.” (The Who, “Won’t Get Fooled Again”)

      • WTF

        To late, that song has already been claimed by those seeking change from Obama, Blair or Cameron.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      “…the past 2 decades from the likes of Blair, Cameron…” has given us the wealthiest generation ever.

      • Lady Magdalene

        “the past 2 decades from the likes of Blair, Cameron … has given us the most indebted generation ever.”

        There …. I’ve fixed it for you. Debt doesn’t = wealth.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          Debt also doesn’t equal lack of wealth.

          If you have a mortgage and can service this and still afford more than you did in the past then you are more wealthy. The UK services its debt comfortably and the ratings agencies assess this as: S&P AAA (top rate), Fitch AA+, Moody’s Aa1, DBRS AAA (top rate), JCR AAA (top rate), etc.

          So while we are successfully servicing our debt the following has happened over the past generation: We can now afford almost three times as many cars per million people on the road. People have twice as long vacations and will probably go further. We eat out four times as often. People spend longer in retirement. Obesity is now a problem that our parents certainly couldn’t afford. The number of households has grown as we can afford to have less people per house. Benefits have far outstripped inflation.

          Now do you understand.

          • WTF

            “Debt also doesn’t equal lack of wealth.” — Try telling that to anyone who has to service a debt !

            Servicing a debt by income tax is reducing my wealth as without having to service that debt, my wealth could and would increase. You went to very a peculiarly school of economics !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Servicing a debt by income tax…” Your tax is being used to grow the economy and the larger economy is being used partly to service the debt.

            Here is an example: We could use the money earmarked for HS2 to pay down the debt instead. However this would be foolish as in the long term this would cost more than it saved.

          • WTF

            As of Q1 2015 UK government debt amounted to £1.56 trillion, or 81.58% of total GDP, at which time the annual cost of servicing (paying the interest) the
            public debt amounted to around £43bn or 8% of UK government tax. (our wealth)

            SANITY RULE No 4 – Pretending interest on debt is being paid for by an invisible entity is the act of a lunatic !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So? You can pay the debt down and throw away growth and screw the future or you can grow and then pay the debt down with the larger economy. Try to work out which is best.

          • WTF

            I made it clear out the outset I was discussing ‘servicing the debt’, that means interest payments not paying down debt.

            Interest payments on a debt are always present, they eat into my income and diminish my wealth whether they come from my home loan or via taxation from government. Of course there are many ways one can try and mitigate wealth erosion which you have touched on but that’s not the subject here.

            SANITY RULE No 7 – When debating on line, stick to the subject or be called out on it !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “I made it clear out the outset I was discussing ‘servicing the debt’, that means interest payments not paying down debt.” If you don’t pay down the debt then you can’t reduce the interest payments, so they are LINKED. Do’h!

          • WTF

            But you changed the subject when I linked liabilities like debt servicing to wealth and tried to claim it wasn’t relevant.

            Do you agree that debt servicing is a liability and should appear on a balance sheet of wealth ?

            YES or NO.

            SANITY RULE No 7 – When debating on line stick to the subject or
            be called out on it !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            There isn’t such a thing as “balance sheet of wealth” but if there was then you would have to include all the assets of the UK: Roads, Rail Network, Telecoms, etc. They alone would dwarf any debt we have.

            The ratings agencies do exact this exercise and they also include all the other intangibles that allow the UK to continue to generate wealth: People and institutions willing to invest (low risk & high returns probably), Business friendly environment (low business taxes, light regulation), Skilled workforce (education), sufficient workforce (immigration),, good reputation (Foreign Aid, BBC World Service, etc), Membership of trading blocks and organisations (World Bank, IMF, EU, ITIP, etc.), etc.

          • WTF

            Of course there is a “balance sheet of wealth”, I have a spread sheet of all our financial accounts be it credit cards, current accounts, savings accounts, investments, expenditure and special columns for spend rate +-, trends and current wealth. They are even broken down to liquid assets (or wealth) as well as notional assets like investments. I don’t hide any liabilities like the government does but how do you put a value on Roads, Rail Network, Telecoms and factor in the 300 billion in PFI’s that have to be paid at some time. The former is a guess, the latter is real !

            Trouble is, you’re off on your tangent yet again with suppositions and guess work rather than guaranteed facts and figures. I can state unequivocally that I have no debt and I have X amount in savings and Y amount in investments and the ONLY two people to worry about are my wife and I. Governments can’t do that and wouldn’t do that and everything you’ve mentioned above is speculative at best and lies at worst. Osbornes figures and projections are totally different from what he claimed they would be some years previously as nothing is certain in government accounting, its all smoking mirrors unlike my spread sheet. One has to take it with a pinch of salt and look after number one rather than trust ANY labour or tory chancellor. Of course, the EU is even worse than our own government when it comes to fudging the books.

            SANITY RULE No 13 – When its obvious goals cannot be reached, don’t adjust the goals, adjust the actions to meet the goals !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “…but how do you put a value on Roads, Rail Network, Telecom…” Easy. Just like when you buy home insurance they look at the cost of rebuilding. Let us look at rail. HS2 is budgeted at 40billion for 120 miles. The current network is 10000miles. So the cost of building from scratch would be about 30000billion.

            Now lets add the cost of the roads that will be much larger…..

            How much is the current debt?

          • WTF

            “Easy. Just like when you buy home insurance they look at the cost of rebuilding” — Your understanding of high finance is appalling let alone grossly misleading, lets destroy your errors one by one !

            1/ The value of a freehold property includes the land value as well as the bricks and mortar but the the value of a property for insurance purposes is just the cost of re-building it. Strike 1

            2/ The value of a road is NOT the cost of re-building it but like a house it includes the land and if a toll road the revenue factors in as well. Strike 2.

            3/ For the rail network its far more complicated as they are regulated by the government, they have to provide upgrades, their charges are controlled, basically, its not a free market price as its neither private nor publicly owned. Strike 3.

            4/ As for Telecoms, other than the sale of licenses for operating mobile
            networks, you seem to have forgotten all mobile networks are not owned
            by the government. Strike 4.

            Its impossible to put a value on any business that government has its fingers in whilst government controls it in a quasi private/public entity, sells licenses or sets price curbs.

            SANITY RULE No 14 – Like the weather, ones fortunes may change by
            evening especially when a government is in the mix !

          • WTF

            Here’s a better and more accurate analogy.

            I’m a caring but ‘soft’ parent and I have two sons, ones a worthless piece of s*** who can’t find a job, the other son works hard and they both live in my house. They each want a new car but the lazy son hasn’t the money to afford it and he’s been fed all this ‘entitlement’ BS from the progressive liberals. If I attempt to kick him out I’ll get labelled as a vile individual by all those liberals so I’m forced to buy a car for the idle son. I don’t have the money so I have to get a loan. I can’t service the loan on my own and much against my better judgment I have no choice but to hike the living costs to my hard working son who actually pays rent (the other one doesn’t) and he’s now paying for his new car loan as well.

            Now, due to this entitlement cr** that pervades everywhere today, both my hard working son and myself see our wealth being reduced due to our ‘family debt’ required for one of our “sons welfare benefits”. We have to service the interest on the debt as well as pay off the debt. The first part is the basis of the UK’s national debt and its debt servicing requirement where those who work hard see their wealth stripped from them due to servicing the national debt interest.

            Now do you understand !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            There isn’t any parallel between your example and the UK economy. We borrow to grow and not to give these mythical hoards of idle people luxury items.

            At this stage of the economic cycle you expect to be running a debt and then when we reach the boom stage (in about 2-3 years from now) then you pay your debt down (unless you’re Corbyn).

            We have a debt of 80% of GDP which is about the same as the US. By comparison Japan has a debt of 225% of GDP.

          • WTF

            I’ll let others have their say but in both your last post and this post, it appears that some mythical force pays the interest on the national debt. So who pays it, some wizard ?

            SANITY RULE No 5 – Denial of the obvious can lead you to bankruptcy !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So you’re STILL having trouble grasping things. This time more slowly then.

            We could (a) pay down the debt more quickly and dispense with growth, or (b) grow and carry the debt for longer. It is a balance and the rating agencies (who have more experience than you) rate our current policy as:

            S&P AAA (top rate), Fitch AA+, Moody’s Aa1, DBRS AAA (top rate), JCR AAA (top rate), etc.

            So who to believe, you or all the ratings agencies? A difficult choice.

          • WTF

            SANITY RULE No 7 – When debating on line stick to the subject or be called out on it !

            Hint – Servicing a debt with interest payments diminishes ones wealth !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Hint – Paying down the debt (so you pay less interest) means you can’t use the money to grow the economy. This diminishes ones future wealth.

          • WTF

            Paying down debt which most intelligent people do may or may not reduce interest as it depends on the loan agreement, even you should know that. Here’s a simple economic model that many sane people follow in their fiscal planning but whether you do or not I haven’t a clue.

            My last mortgage as with most if not all mortgages was a simple & transparent repayment mortgage, the transparent ones that had been around for decades. My re-payments were fixed to the prevailing interest rates (BoE) and the pay down rate was the mirror image of debt servicing costs (interest). I negotiated a deal with Halifax to pay down extra debt off the capital without any hidden caveats or costs and reduced the repayment period from 20 years to 10 years. My current wealth at any point in that 10 years did not took a hit as although my outgoings had increased until I paid that debt off, the inherent value of my asset increased (subject to market values). Doing this and selling at the peak, significantly increased my future wealth, the complete opposite of what you are claiming.

            The same analogy applies to the nation, following your approach of not paying down debt increases the nations liabilities and wealth for the future and that is exactly what is happening currently. There maybe a case that gambling as you are suggesting might bring rewards to pay that increased debt off but there are no guarantees unlike my approach of paying down debt each month and virtually guaranteeing to be more wealthy in 10 years.

            It really comes down to being certain for the future of being debt free or gambling on your children’s future. You obviously have no issue with gambling on their life styles and future.

            SANITY RULE No 11 – A wise man makes his own decisions based on experience, a fool repeats the same mistakes again and again !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “…following your approach of not paying down debt increases the nations liabilities…” Or maintains them at a manageable level which GDP is grown. I keep trying to tell you that it is a balancing act but you seem to have “slow brain problem”.

            “There maybe a case that gambling as you are suggesting might bring rewards…” The ratings agencies, World Bank and IMF certainly think so.

            “my approach of paying down debt each month and virtually guaranteeing to be more wealthy in 10 years….” That is very incorrect. If you use money to pay the debt where do you take it from – Welfare , Defense, Foreign Aid, Infrastructure Projects, etc. Or do you increase tax on business or individuals. All of these have a consequence and most will make us poorer in 10 years.

          • WTF

            Osborne has failed in his balancing act, haven’t you noticed !

            Anyone who trusts the IMF or World bank after their predictions over the Euro and specifically that the UK would suffer badly if we didn’t join is a loony. A gypsy with a crystal ball would be as accurate as that lot !

            “my approach of paying down debt each month and virtually guaranteeing
            to be more wealthy in 10 years….” That is very incorrect. — Oh yeah !

            Funny that, it worked out very well for me, mortgage paid off 10 years early just before the housing market peaked, sold the house near the top, went to Spain and made out like a bandit compared to some. Worked like a charm rather than following your theories or the IMF & World bank.

            SANITY RULE No 13 – I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. BUT I
            do and I understand !

          • WTF

            You’re either not very good at this or you suffer from ADD as your
            attention span doesn’t even last long enough to reply to the original
            subject line. Whether its migrant vetting or what constitutes wealth
            erosion you shoot off on some other line of personal interest (or is it
            obfuscation) rather than address the subject matter.

            Let me remind you of the subject here, its wealth erosion, not paying down debt or investing for the future.

            SANITY RULE No 8 – When in doubt, ask for clarification of the subject rather than look the fool !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Let me remind you of the subject here, its wealth erosion, not paying down debt or investing for the future.” Let me remind you that my response here gave two options to do with paying down debt v’s investing for the future.

            Did you just post your response against the wrong post or have you had too many to drink?

          • WTF

            Wow, you’re back to the subject at last, perhaps I did get through to you after all.

            Your suggestion involves no certainty that the debt could be paid off as Osborne is finding out the hard way, national debt still rising and debt servicing exposure rising. That’s not a safe option for being debt free, that’s a big gamble. Paying down debt in a structured manner ensures you will be debt free and if used on a property, it will guarantee some increase in wealth in the future as I proved.

            SANITY RULE No 11 – He who asks awkward questions can be considered a
            fool for 5 minutes, he who never asks is a fool for life !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Your suggestion involves no certainty that the debt could be paid off…” Nothing in life is certain but the ratings agencies (who know more than you) think it can.

            “…national debt still rising…” Have you learn nothing from our conversation little one? The Government is rightly concentrating on growth first.

            “That’s not a safe option for being debt free,…” No growing country is debt free. I don’t think the UK has been debt free in living memory. Our debt was 120% GDP in the 1960s.

            “Paying down debt in a structured manner ensures you will be debt free …”And the structure should be growth first to generate jobs & wealth and then debt repayment later.

            “…as I proved.” You are a legend in your own mind!

          • WTF

            This whole thread started on the discussion of wealth. I measure wealth by whats in my bank account, the value of my property and assets and you use Osborne style smoking mirrors to suggest that the country is wealthy.

            You completely disregard that the national debt is increasing or that servicing the national debt is costing tax payers their wealth as without it, the taxes could be reduced. Clearly your idea of debt is at odds with 95% or more of the population so I’ll leave it at that. You live in your fantasy world of ifs and maybes and perhaps whilst I’ll live in the real world of how much I have in the bank.

            FISCAL RULE No 1 – Inflation & national debt is not caused by the actions of private citizens, but by the government: by an artificial expansion of the money supply required to support deficit spending. No private embezzlers or bank robbers in history have ever plundered people’s savings on a scale comparable to the plunder perpetrated by the fiscal policies of statist governments.

      • WTF

        In your dreams – They’ve savaged my savings and pensions and the country has record national debt levels and we still have a annual deficit.

        Our national debt which we as individuals carry as a tax burden is over twice that of Spain even adjusting for population size, its higher than Germany and on a par with France. All tax payers in a country are liable for the cost of servicing the national debt and that takes away wealth from us. What school of economics did you go to ?

        • OmnipotentWizard

          The national debt is equivalent to a person having a mortgage. If you can service the mortgage and still buy more stuff than you used to then you are wealthier. The UK’s debt is 80% of GDP which is not large by historic standards. S&P rate the UK’s ability to service its debt as AAA (better than the US & France).

          And while we have been successfully servicing out debt the following has happened to individual wealth over the last generation: We can now afford almost three times as many cars per million people on the road. People have
          twice as long vacations and will probably go further. We eat out four times as
          often. People spend longer in retirement. Obesity is now a problem that our parents certainly couldn’t afford. The number of households has grown as we can afford to have less people per house. Benefits have far outstripped inflation.

          Thank you Blair, Cameron, etc.

          • WTF

            “…the past 2 decades from the likes of Blair, Cameron…” has given us the wealthiest generation ever.” — Your post I believe !

            Wealth must include assets and liabilities !

            SANITY RULE No 3 – An accountant who doesn’t show debt on a balance sheet is not an honest accountant.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Good grief – Read what I’ve just written again and this time more slowly.

            Wizard Rule 73: If you don’t look then you won’t see.

          • WTF

            Read sanity rule 3 – Its basic accountancy and anything else is a lie !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Read again – even slower.

            You’ll finally get there if you concentrate.

          • WTF

            The subject as posted by you was about wealth, stick to the subject !

            Wealth must include assets and liabilities !

            SANITY RULE No 3 – An accountant who doesn’t show debt on a balance sheet is not an honest accountant.

          • oldoddjobs

            Tony Blair made us all rich!

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Indeed – whatever you think of his other achievements he was the most successful Labour PM ever on economic matters.

  • Order No. 227

    In order to be right wing you have to be angry, poorly informed, reactionary, less intelligent, living in the past, easily manipulated and probably religious. It’s no surprise they’ve imploded.

    • Hmmmm, methinks you’re joking or seriously deluded.
      Angry: anyone even slightly left-wing becomes a spittle flecked ranter within seconds of any ‘debate’.
      Poorly informed: ditto and I’d add that most ‘leftie debate’ can be destroyed in seconds.
      Reactionary: now you’re just trolling, surely? No?…wow.
      Less intelligent: you take one bit of minor research and make it the whole truth…says a lot.
      Living in the past: some are, same as some of the Left.
      Easily manipulated?! LOL… you really must look left a bit more.
      Probably religious: I’d say possibly, same as many Lefties.
      2/10 must try harder.

    • Van Sykes

      In order to be left wing, you have to be smug, childish, terrified of just and legal authority yet calm as a Hindu cow in the face of encroaching globalism, brainwashed by the academy, divorced from reality in a middle class urbanite bubble, and probably infertile. It’s no surprise your only recourse is the halfway decent verbal IQ you need to convince yourself that the critical theory word salad passing for left wing thought makes any sense.

    • John

      Funny that – I always thought the above was a perfect description of a brainwashed , slogan chucking lefty – although I could be wrong !

    • WTF

      The ONLY right wing and left wing we have these days are on aircraft, its meaningless in politics.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        Because you say so…?

        • WTF

          So explain it then, what is right and left wing in 2016 ?

        • WTF

          Has your wand gone ‘limp’ again, I still want to know what you define as right or left wing !

    • RightThinkingMan

      I am rightwing but I agree the right wing instead of being open , welcoming has turned into a party of angry white make losers. there is truth in what you say

    • Cobbett

      Ha ha you are funny.

    • chizwoz

      Sounds like you wanted Order No.66 Emperor Palpatine.

  • Just putting it out there, but another thing that makes us want to put two fingers up to the system is establishment journos calling us “Nigel Farage’s barmy army” when many of us joined UKIP as we came to recognise that the Tory party is about as Eurosceptic as Jaques Delors

    • trobrianders

      128 Tory MPs want out.

      • Yet continue to follow their Europhile leader.

        • trobrianders

          What should they do? Set John Mann on him?

      • Lady Magdalene

        AFTER they sat meekly on the Government benches collecting their MP salaries and expenses and allowed Farage and the other brave outriders in UKIP to force the issue and take all the flak.

        I’m glad they’re on our side (now) but I don’t have a great deal of respect for any of them.

        • trobrianders

          All true.

  • WTF

    That famous line “I love the smell of napalm in the morning” from Apocalypse Now should be changed for articles like this with “I love the smell of fear in the morning” when pro EU liberals like Freddie Gray write these laughable articles. They used to be aimed at trying to scare us but now all they do is scare themselves from their own fear baiting. Perhaps a Monty Python line from the Holy Grail might be as appropriate for these journalists who seem to be scaring themselves –

    Sir Freddie: You t** ! I soiled my armor I was so scared !

    • OmnipotentWizard

      You did know that Trump won’t become president and the UK will vote to stay in the EU, didn’t you?

      • WTF

        Luckily the choice to stay or leave and the choice for POTUS is not yours to make but the electorate. Its called democracy and if it doesn’t go your way, you’re free to leave as many dumb celebs in America have ‘threatened’. Of course they wont follow through even though many others have offered them free 1st class tickets to leave if Trump becomes POTUS.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          I suggest you avoid all betting shops for a while.

          • WTF

            After watching the Speccie debate last night on my PC its all starting to look quite positive for Brexit so I might be tempted to plonk some money on leaving.

            It was the same tired old lies coming from Nick Clegg as he recycled the BS he tried on Farage a year ago and failed. Liz Kendall was her usual wooden self sounding as though she was reading from a Dalek teleprompter rather than engaging her brain. Even Andrew Neill had to close her down when the audience question was “Can you have border control whilst in the EU”. Immediately she was off at a tangent trying to persuade us about the benefits of migration without answering the question. Over to Farage and an answer in 1 second, “NO of course you can’t control your borders whilst in the EU”. I’ve long said politicians like her need to be wired up to a electric shock machine and given 230 volts until they answer the question. As for Chuka, he was predictably a non event and irrelevant. Interestingly, where were the heavy weights for remain like Cameron, Osborne or May, chickened out as usual afraid of the facts when up against the like of Hannan or Farage !

            Hannan was the star on this debate and more than adequately supported by Farage and a good supporting role by Kate Hoey. It was obvious from the audience reaction during the debtate it was going to be a ‘leave’ win and so it proved to be.

            What now one wonders, what can Cameron do to f*** it up even more for the remain group? He seems to have gone into hiding after Oblunders threat to our trade whether its was his prompting or just Oblunder doing his usual “stick my nose” where its not wanted. The EU also has become very subdued as well knowing that attacks on the leave campaign are counter productive and just benefit the leavers. They should might have learned form Trump campaign where he has benefited from mentally retarded protesters who keep attacking him.

            All that Brexit has to do is repeat the truths and the remainiacs will be history but there’s still a risk that Cameron & Juncker may well refuse to accept a democratic result and impose some form of dictatorial mandate from Brussels, then what, who knows what might happen.

      • Cobbett

        And that cnut Clinton is something to celebrate?

        • OmnipotentWizard

          As in all elections we vote for the least worst option. So blame the Republicans for not putting forward a viable candidate under a united party.

          • WTF

            You sad uneducated b’stard, the Republicans didn’t choose Trump, he chose them for (a) for convenience and (b) that’s the way the system works in the USA. Let me try and educate you into American voting system and I’ll try and make it simple for your wizard pea brain.

            For the primaries (NOW) where the nominee for POTUS on both sides (Dem & Rep) are chosen –

            1/ Voters have to sign up to their party of preference (Dem or Rep) and the contenders have to be running on a party ticket (Dem or Rep)

            2/ Voters have to vote along their party lines (can’t cross) and choose their preferred candidate, currently Clinton & Saunders (about to drop out) on the Dem side and Trump, Cruz & Kasick on the Rep side. Trump is way in the lead, Cruz some way back and Kasick a no hope but the latter two can still act as spoilers.

            Do you get it now, Trump had to choose a party not the other way around.

            Now come the general election, voters can cross party lines and its not impossible that Clinton voters could vote for Trump.

            SANITY RULE No 2 – A wizard has got to know their limitations before posting rubbish !!!

          • maic

            Do you think you could promote your point of view without recourse to swearing and verbal abuse?
            I would hope that the Spectator could be a forum for ADULT debate and discussion.
            People are not stupid just because they disagree with you.
            Some of us have had submitted posts (written in civil and Plain English) not accepted or deleted by the editors. If this is because of a lack of time and space perhaps consideration should be given to rejecting posts which contain swearing and abusive language.
            One can still propose a perception, value or point of view without resorting to swearing and abusive language.
            Any comment editor?

          • WTF

            I do normally curb insults and in fact with rational people I never insult them but this poster is a class act in the worst possible sense and deserves a lot more insults than I give him. In fact others have done much better than me with their insults. Anyway, I fail to see that a play on words from the New Statesman TV series is swearing and verbal abuse when directed at any person let alone this individual ?

            He actually thrives on abuse others direct at him and all I gave him was one trivial word followed by useful facts designed to educate his lack of knowledge on the American political system and his arrogance in thinking he knew it.

            “So blame the Republicans for not putting forward a viable candidate under a united party.” Thats not dis-agreeing, thats factually incorrect !

            Hint to ImpotentWizard – Don’t try and exceed your capabilities !

          • Cobbett

            If he does what he says then I’m all for him.

          • The problem is that he can’t do what he says. The Mexicans will neither build nor pay for a wall and one day his diplomats would spell out to him the damage to both security & the economy of banning Muslims.

            He is all hot air.

          • Cobbett

            If Israel and Saudi Arabia can build a wall to keep out those they don’t want then surely ”mighty” America can as well…does the US give any aid to Mexico?(use that)

          • The US could physically build a wall but….the diplomatic and economic impact on the US would be such that it would be a very silly thing to do. Trump would be told that on day one of hos Presidency by his diplomats.

            Remember that Mexico is one of the MINT countries (including Indonesia, Nigeria & Turkey) which are predicted to be fast growing economies in the next few decades. So a trade war with the US would hurt both sides.

            The US may still have the largest economy in the World but it used to be very dominant and now it isn’t as there are plenty of countries that are catching up – India, China and (when it stops messing about) Brazil.

          • Cobbett

            Bollocks.

          • With that level of tact and eloquence you could easily be part of Trumps government.

          • Cobbett

            I don’t particularly care for America so I’ll give it a pass.

      • WTF

        Not your decision is it !

        • OmnipotentWizard

          I made a lot of money betting with UKIPpers that they would get less than 8 MPs at the General Election. I should make a whole lot more betting against Trump and against the OUTters.

          But….you can’t get good enough odds at the betting shops (as they know what is going to happen) so you have to find a few naive UKIPpers and twerps.

          Happy days.

          • WTF

            Depends which way you’re betting !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I made three figures betting against the UKIPpers last time. You wouldn’t believe the number of MP some thought they’d get.

      • We Praise Thee Oh Mighty God

        In your dreams.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          I’m going to make a lot of money betting with naive UKIPpers and right-wing twerps on these points.

  • mike dundee

    Freddy Gray is completely out of touch with reality, its the left that is known for rioting etc. your politically correct days are numbered. keep on with your divisive identity politics because that is what is ripping the world apart and they dont have the minutest brainpower to realise it.

  • trobrianders

    The Right? Oh you mean everyone who knows what a brainless lefty like Freddie Gray looks like?

    • Lina R

      Like most left-wing journalists, there is no room for nuance. It seems, we are fall into two categories – compassionate lefties who want social justice, or foaming, capitalistic rednecks with our love of guns and hatred of foreigners. Sadly, social media and the rigid Guardian mentality of the illiberal elite, perpetuates this.

      • trobrianders

        Absolutely. The loonyversity system irons out nuance and churns out “graduates” that go on to populate the education and media sectors. That’s why inarticulate, “poorly educated” people are making political sense at the moment and rigid ideologues are being rejected. It will perpetuate until we do what the Poles have done and elect a government willing to purge these institutions.

  • oldoddjobs

    Why do I get the impression that Freddy Gray knows next to nothing about the alt right?

    Twitter trolls innit. Yeah. We’re the respectable right, us Spectator stooges. Right wing = Tories. Or something.

  • OmnipotentWizard

    It isn’t just the right-wing loonies (Trump, Farage, etc) but the left-wing loonies like Corbyn as well.

    The public is fairly conservative (that’s small ‘c’) and will hence always vote to the centre (that’s ‘re’ and not ‘er’) ground.

    • goodsoldier

      Trump and Farage are not right-wing loonies. They are saner than sane. It’s you who doesn’t get it. Sorry buster.

    • WTF

      So letting in migrants like Merkel has without vetting for criminal or medical problems isn’t looney ? Perhaps you should redefine your understanding of the word being a loonie unless you want to be called one !

      • OmnipotentWizard

        As immigrants pay more tax than they take in benefits and violent crime is at an all time low then it doesn’t seem to be a problem.

        BTW: Wizard Rule 64: A rude response is no substitute for a sound argument.

        • WTF

          So what you’re really saying is you want open borders, no immigration checks and anyone can come in from anywhere ! Failure to have vetting procedures is lunatic in the current terrorism climate let alone any other threat!

          So which do you want to be called, a “loonie” for no immigration checks or “cautious” by having proper vetting. There is no in between so own up, are you a “loonie” or “cautious”, you choose and we’ll be interested in your reply.

          SANITY RULE No. 1 – Being aware of the risks and taking appropriate precautions.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “So what you’re really saying is you want open borders,…” Trying to put words into someones mouth so you can criticise then for (not) saying them is very childish.

            “Failure to have vetting procedures is lunatic…” Just as well immigrants do have to go through a procedure then.

            “So which do you want to be called, a “loonie” for no immigration checks or “cautious” by having proper vetting.” This is know as a “leading question” as it contains an assumption. This is also a very childish debating technique.

            Here is an example of a leading question so that you can recognise them in future and avoid using them – “Would you like to be called naive for being a member of UKIP or not?”

          • WTF

            I’ll try and simplify it for you with a two part question. Should a migrant be required to provide police certificates from countries they have lived in and should they also provide medical tests to show they aren’t infected with any serious illness.

            SANITY RULE No 6 – Leading questions are completely valid where the person being asked a question is being evasive !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Why would we introduce a system that is so easy to fake and difficult to police.

            Current checks on police records in the applicants country work better.

            I wonder why you would want such an (ineffective) system…. 🙂

          • WTF

            Let me enlighten you again to the reality of police certificates just as I had to correct you over the US presidential voting system. You keep making these erroneous assertions whether through stupidity, ignorance, lies or fact baiting and most times you are simply wrong.

            1/ There are no formalized criminal checks nor medical checks required by UK immigration, that is the start of the problem.

            2/ It is not easy to fake the system (not that I tried) as I found out by having to provide many documents proving who I am. To get a UK certificate from the police for use in immigration to another country has all manner of safeguard on pre ID checks and costs around $180. The equivalent Spanish police document is similar and cheaper but again you still have to provide birth certificate, ID, passport, passport pictures, proof of residence like utility bills, parents etc.

            3/ If these standards were applied to migrants coming into the EU & UK, either their country would have to up their standards to the European model of vetting for criminal & medical issues or migrants could be denied entry until they meet our standards. That’s not an unreasonable request when they have reciprocal requirements.

            Now back to the original question you’ve evaded.

            Should a migrant be required to provide police certificates that meet the UK & Spanish standards of police certificates and should they have to provide medical tests proving you haven’t got TB, HIV, Hepatitus or a STD.

            Yes or No ?

            SANITY RULE No 10 – Evasion in answering a fair question is a failure to debate honestly !

          • WTF

            As with the other subject re wealth, you’re either not very good at this or you suffer from ADD as your attention span doesn’t even last long enough to reply to the original subject line. Whether its migrant vetting (here) or what constitutes wealth erosion you shoot off on some other line of personal interest (or is it obfuscation) rather than address the subject matter.

            Let me remind you of the subject here, its about vetting of migrants for national safety & security, not possible tax takes or more likely welfare payments..

            SANITY RULE No 8 – When in doubt, ask for clarification of the subject rather than look the fool !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Are you sure you actually read my post before responding?

          • WTF

            I’m waiting for you to answer the questing regarding vetting and medical checks requirements as so far you haven’t.

            I refer you to my more recent post on this matter – see below

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Ask me a non-leading question (like a mature person) and I’ll give you my opinion.

          • WTF

            According to the dictionary definition, a leading question is a question that prompts or encourages one desired answer. I’m not attempting to get one DESIRED answer from you, I’m attempting to get one answer out of two opposing answers that are available to the question.

            https://www.google.com/search?q=definition+of+a+leading+question&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

            I repeat –

            Should a migrant be required to provide police certificates that meet
            the UK & Spanish standards of police certificates and should they
            have to provide medical tests proving they haven’t got TB, HIV,
            Hepatitus or a STD.

            Yes or No ?

            You can answer either way so by definition it not a leading question as I’m not trying to lead you to either a Yes or No response. You can choose which response you prefer, so why are you avoiding this question ?

            SANITY RULE No 16 – The questions you avoid are the ones you need to consider the most” !

  • Ingmar Blessing

    As observer of the political arena in Europe an North America with my own opinion on the crazy-blonde side I strongly believe that a significant number of people on the Right have realized that politics is stupid, unnecessary, counterproductive and fueling idiots who are flushed into power and think now they can fully live out their
    psychosis.

    That is the problem. We are better off without politics. Conservatives everywhere seem to have realized that and with the epic mistakes made in the past 10 years from the Wall Street bail-out to Merkels Welcome Party a critical mass has emerged. They ignored the rule that in a crisis, you have to take it down a notch. Instead their solution was to increase the size and therefore fuel the problem and put it on a higher level than before. That won’t go well. It can’t. I am sure a lot of angry conservative can’t put a finger on it, but just have a strong feeling of something seriously going wrong.

    Overall, politics simply made itself un-useful. We have reached such a high level of productivity and wealth, political redistribution makes things just worse, especially with those incompetent former art history students (and far worse) in charge.

    The whole thing will be torn down in until the end of this decade, I have little doubt about it. Otherwise, the effects of the created problems will do so by force by the end of the next one.

  • maic

    We’ve heard all this before – the wise commentator telling the peasants how to think.
    There have always been extremists in modern democracies and providing they don’t impinge on the rights of non extremists they are accepted as part of the system. “If you don’t like them then don’t vote for them.”
    The writer does accept that the discontent of the right arises from the deafness and incompetence of their so called representatives. The current position of British citizens having to comply with laws enacted by EU bureaucrats hardly helps the situation.
    The writer takes a patronising view of the efforts of right wing groups to elect their own representatives. The fact that UKIP has poor political representation in Parliament in spite of its large number of votes is lauded by the writer. I suggest that it is a travesty in a political system which is supposed to be democratic.
    In any event the citizens of the right are fed up and they are on the move. Let the commentariat mock all they wish. There have been citizen revolutions before and I think we are seeing one now.

    • trobrianders

      Real change will be sparked and it will probably come with terrible violence. It will be swift and unexpected. People will only know they want to join in as it is happening. It will be born of instinct not intellect. We had an opportunity to bring about a reversal of mad leftist politics peacefully through the ballot box but didn’t take it. The leftist indoctrination of the past 40 years has been too powerful.

      • Trailblazer10

        I think it has been longer than 40 years. Several generations have been indoctrinated. The institutions have been infested.

        • trobrianders

          OK take it back to Attlee

    • WTF

      I second this – “the wise commentator telling the peasants how to think” is the standard fare for the remain campaign starting with Cameron right down to remain posters here and the articles writer. In contrast, Hannan and Farage have consistently spelled out the facts and left it to us to make our own judgment.

  • Rob74

    I read the first paragraph and came straight to the comment section for rebuttals.

  • Johnnydub

    After the Iran hostage crisis President Carter ordered administration officials to “invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly.”
    The American media and left didn’t go mad with accusations of fascism or racism.
    40 years later Trump does something similar on a temporary basis and he’s the antichrist.
    The World is being dragged leftwards towards an ever bigger state, mass immigration, mad PC laws etc and the political right only slow it down, it doesn’t ever go the other way.
    So yes we’re furious with so called Conservatives / Republicans because they’re not conservative.
    IF we vote for UKIP or Trump we’re told we’re “swivel eyed loonies” and the state starts to squeeze you (eg. public sector employment or the removal of adopted kids) Just how far will this go before there’s either civil unrest of a straight up dictatorship?

    • trobrianders

      It has to be resisted like it’s resisted every generation it rears its ugly head.

    • Trailblazer10

      The left will say it was a nationality, not a religion that Carter banned entry to.

  • trobrianders

    If someone stuck a superhero costume on Jacob Rees-Mogg I’m sure the world could be put right.

  • Doc S.africa

    It’s not the right tearing itself apart, it’s more the left tearing the right apart.
    The left has itself become oppressive, suppressing all thought and opinion that is deemed conservative.
    Leftists now do not allow any opinion other than their own.
    To be conservative comes with instant offensive labels like racist or looney.
    The weapon of the liberal has become political correctness.
    Interesting that most cultures lauded by the leftist liberals, do not allow free speech and are in fact often homophobic, xenophobic racist oppressive regimes with no few, if any, democratically elected governments.
    We are truly living in the leftist age of hypocrisy.
    The rest of us conservative thinkers are now simply dinasours, whilst the world is taking a step backwards.

  • Yorkieeye

    What a strange article. You appear to conflate Brexit with extreme right politics. Brexit is being supported by trade unionists and conservatives alike. I am massively a social liberal, gay marriage and all but a Brexiter too. That doesn’t make me a carpet chewing extremist. I am anti big government and big business. I consider the EU machine to be an alliance of both.

    • chizwoz

      Is “carpet chewing extremist” a euphemism for lesbian?

    • Lina R

      This article is very black and white. Like you, most of us are somewhere in the middle.

      • Yorkieeye

        No

        • Yorkieeye

          Sorry Lina meant to say no to chizwoz

    • WTF

      It has indeed brought strange bed fellows together even like Farage & Galloway but “the enemy of my enemy” and all that will create useful bonds to remove the one real enemy namely the un-elected EU.

  • enoch arden

    It is of interest to make a Marxist class-structure analysis of that funny movement which, for inexplicable reason is called “cultural Marxism” (neither of these “lefties” have any idea of what Marx’s economic theory is about). Regardless of its amusing appearance, this social phenomenon is quite significant as a signal of a deep transformation of the modern society.

    The central economic reason for the transformation we are observing is that the modern economy is becoming predominantly parasitic. All the goods consumed by the society are produced by a rather small minority of workers, engineers and scientists. The rest are parasites, absolute or relative. Their only function is to consume or participate in redistribution of the goods produced by the productive minority.

    Therefore, the social life is dominated by the struggle between two classes: rich parasites and poor parasites about sharing the cake produced by someone else. There is some logic in that: Why one parasite should be better than another one in terms of distribution? A woman can ask a legitimate question: why a man doing the same kind of absolutely useless job in the office gets more than me? This creates feminism. They didn’t ask that question 100 years ago: women couldn’t compete with men in a steel mill or in farming. The pointless paper pushing they do now makes them equal.

    Students adapt to this situation. Instead of learning science or professional skills in engineering or medicine, most of them are now involved in all sorts of “social studies”. They perfectly know that they are parasites, and it isn’t their intention to do anything useful in life. They want redistribution of goods produced by others. And, within the rules of the modern economy, this desire is absolutely rational and morally justified: all parasites must be equal.

    • trobrianders

      Our dystopia is barely formed yet. Save your best descriptions for later.

    • Trailblazer10

      It is called Cultural Marxism because it takes control of the language and culture.

      It is not an accident.

      • enoch arden

        During the Middle Ages the Roman Catholic Church took control over the language and culture. Do you suggest they too were “cultural Marxists”?

        • Trailblazer10

          No. Cultural marxism is also called critical theory.

          To win the political wars first take control of the culture.Check out how the KGB did it in Nicaragua, for example.

          The demoralization phase (indoctrination) has been going on a long time. Gramsci described it as the long march of the left through the institutions.

          • Dryermartinithanyours

            Someone who genuinely understands. Would like to discuss if poss.

        • Dryermartinithanyours

          E=MC3.

  • Kandanada

    “Tearing itself apart.”

    The right is “tearing itself apart” with Trump and anti-immigration. The left is “tearing itself apart” with anti-semitic nonsense.

    The Tories were, no doubt, tearing themselves apart over the Euro a few years ago. The Royal Family, it has been alleged, was tearing itself apart in the nineties.

    I’m tearing myself apart trying to avoid cliches (like the plague).

    • Trailblazer10

      You have been fed a false narrative. It is anti ILLEGAL immigration.Thousands of Americans have been raped and killed because even the existing laws aren’t being enforced. Obama has actually weakened the borders as much as he can get away with.

      Drugs are pouring across the “border”. Vicious MSI3 gang members are all over the place.

      There are also now terror cells in every state.

      Perhaps you would like to talk to the parents whose children have been raped and murdered.
      Dying in their father’s arms.

      The MSM won’t tell you. They would rather call anybody who is concerned about that a “racist” or “xenophobe”.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Can it really be true that a Guardian journalist had the effrontery to say that correcting another Internet correspondent’s spelling and grammar is racist?
        Only in UK trash culture where education and learning are ridiculed as elitist.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Chapter and Verse:
          “If you’re a proud grammar snob, the leftwing Guardian’s Mona Chalabi wants you to know that you’re simply a wealthy, white racist trying to silence minority voices like hers in order to maintain your wealthy, white, racist power imbalance.
          In the short video, Chalabi attempts to suggest that grammar rules don’t even exist in the real world, only in the condescending minds of wealthy, white racists.”

          I’M A RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • RnwMaps

    The author is obviously no democrat, if he thinks 4 million voters being disenfranchised by FPTP is a cause for quasi-religious veneration

    “Ukip would already be a major parliamentary force were it not for the first-past-the-post system (peace be upon it). If the House of Commons were chosen according to a proportional system, Ukip, having won almost 4 million votes in May, would hold around 80 seats.”

    • gunnerbear

      UKIP voters were not ‘disenfranchised’ – they got to vote. Under FPTP, there is no doubt UKIPs vote distribution isn’t helpful to them. There was a vote on changing from FPTP to AV and the Great British Electorate rejected AV* – in fact a senior member of UKIP campaigned against the change to AV. * – yes AV isn’t PR but it would have been the first step on the road to PR…

      • Raz

        The right love to decry the lack of democracy and are usually the first to vote against more of it.

      • Philip Fraser

        Yes but authoritative investigations by Channel 4 News appear to suggest there were blatant breaches of electoral law in a number of constituencies on the part of the Tories, including Thanet South where they were deperate to prevent Mr Farage gaining the seat, I understand the Electoral Commission and the police are investigating

  • JohnnyNorfolk

    You can tell the barclay brothers are in charge with such rubbish left wing articles. must review my subscription if these is any more of this. What with mrs N refusing to display The Spectators covers anywhere in the house as she finds them insulting.

    • We Praise Thee Oh Mighty God

      I agree.

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      Matthew Parris won’t like it.

  • JohnnyNorfolk

    Why do we have to read this here. Its not what a subscribe for. I can read it in the guardian or the BBC for free

  • Sargon the bone crusher

    Freddy Gray is an idiot; he gets nothing. The left is done for, and the right is simply purging itself of the flaccid centre,

  • Tearing itself apart? This is a popular revolution. I’ve seldom seen someone who gets paid for his analysis get it so wrong. Outside of the Guardian at least. There are three major forces now, nationalist populism (trump, Le Pen, UKIP), what is left of the left (Sanders, Livingstone, and Corbyn et al) and the Blair/Cameron/Clinton/Clegg pro globalist, liberal elitist, pro immigration, pro EU centre. Matthew Parris had a hilarious article in yesterday’s Times suggesting that Cameron make common cause with Blairite Labour MPs to isolate the real Tory party. The gloves are coming off at long last, the masks are slipping, and it’s marvelous

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Spectator Blogs. Find out more.

  • frodobeard

    Well that is absolutely spot on. As a one-nation tory, I despair of this country’s political direction. I’m laughed at by my mates in the pub for trying to argue against their increasingly irrationality as previously sane friends parrot increasingly bizarre opinions they got from daft blogs and websites. It’s a judgement on us all for our previous passivity, allowing the status quo cover upthe grubbing, grasping greed of those on all sides of the political spectrum. Ah, well, it won’t be boring in the next few years… I might go watch it from the south island of New Zealand…

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      O’dear. you think you’ll be safe there?

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    Right-wing traitors and cuckservatives have spent decades selling out their White base, so we can hardly blame voters for turning to less mainstream parties and politicians.

    It’s all very sensible, really. It would be total insanity if voters still clung to the old parties that have repeatedly abused and betrayed them.

    The Alt-Right is rising–and there’s nothing the establishment Right can do about it.

  • trobrianders

    Getting Jacksonian with the savages. Go trump!

  • Susanna

    I’m seriously concerned about the EU leaders and what they’ll do next.

    The first law of politics is always self-preservation – at any cost.

    And let’s not forget how much time and effort they’ve put into setting up their Federel EU Superstate
    – over 70 years .

    Are they really going to let their EU empire fade away because of a few right-wing populist movements ?

    My head is telling me they will now (after our UK referendum), ban all right-wing political parties under
    the guise of causing ‘ security risk ‘ , ‘ terrorism’ , ‘ civil unrest ‘ etc. In fact they’ll use any and all excuses
    to get rid of any political opposition – especially the anti-EU parties.

    This will include any moderate but popular centre-right parties that they perceive to be a threat to their political
    stranglehold on the masses – including UKIP, Front National, Golden Dawn, Swiss Peoples Party,
    Austria’s Freedom Party, P V V, Northern League, Swedish Democrats, AfD etc, etc.

    That’s why they’re now quickly putting together their EU military forces and training up hundreds of extra police
    in order to crush any dissent by EU citizens when they ban these parties.

    After all, what better way of getting rid of the opposition than to remove them from the ballot paper.

    Black clouds are gathering over another EU dictatorship that has a destiny with death.

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      There is some truth to this argument, except there are more effective ways to destroy an opposition, without banning them.

  • Dryermartinithanyours

    The only issue with the right is that it has allowed the left to arrogate all moral currency to itself, by defining itself 100% in opposition to the caustic effrontery of the left. Hitler was partly a reaction of the broad populace to self-hating socialism, while WWI sprang in part from the impossible multicultural span of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, which Franz Ferdinand wanted to ameliorate by making Serbia more independent and so made his fateful foolish tour. If only he had been killed in a hunting accident at my distant relatives at Welbeck, in 1913. or if Rudolf hadn’t committed suicide at his own hunting estate. That and the Kaiser’s withered arm.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Spectator Blogs. Find out more.(2)

    • Australian Inquisitor

      Hitler was a reaction to socialism?Franz Ferdinand wanted to make Serbia independent???

      Which history books are you getting this rubbish from?

      • Dryermartinithanyours

        Ah, you’re definitely Australian, all tact and patient modesty. Think before you hit that ‘enter’ key. Ever heard of the concept of National Socialism as a “bulwark against communism” and Marxism? Doesn’t ring any bells? Look up any text on the causes of WW II and you’ll find it. Or we could simply choose Hitler’s own words about the SPD, in which he appealed to popular sentiment, and so was elected democratically (i.e., by a majority of voters in free elections): “More than any theoretical literature, my daily reading of the Social Democratic press enabled me to study the inner nature of these thought-processes. For what a difference between the glittering phrases about freedom, beauty, and dignity in the theoretical literature … and the brutal daily press, shunning no villainy, employing every means of slander, lying with a virtuosity that would bend iron beams, all in the name of this gospel of a new humanity.” He also admitted that he borrowed heavily from these same methods, but “You don’t sell your brand of soap powder by saying the other fellow’s is just as good.” And why do you falsely assert that I said F-F wanted to make Serbia independent? I said “more independent,” which is quite different and despite your lack of awareness, nonetheless fact. He saw the Empire as a federation rather than command-and-control under the heel of the Hungarians. See Leo Valiani, The End of Austria-Hungary, 1973. Hope this helps but I suggest you seek professional help.

        • Australian Inquisitor

          Sorry mate, I’ve never been impressed with people who try and use bluster and bombast as a substitute for knowledge.

          You wrote
          “Hitler was partly a reaction of the broad populace to self-hating socialism”

          Are you implying that the Weimar Republic was socialist? If so, please demonstrate how you come to that conclusion

          You also suggested that Franz Ferdinand wanted independence for Serbia.

          What is the source of that claim?

          • Dryermartinithanyours

            Ha! Bombast as a “substitute for knowledge?” Please. Down-home blokiness is a come-back at me, but as an Aussie too I don’t buy the matey mate I’m so-‘umble-but-real b-s. It’s inverted snobbery as a misdirection.

            Nowhere did I say F-F wanted independence for Serbia. Why do you keep repeating it? He didn’t want war with Serbia and thought he could mollify Serbian nationalism by creating a federated state in place of the existing command and control order. Half my family is Serbian, btw.

            Hitler was elected in 1933 though a lot of people dispute it was really a “fair and free” election, using the Reichstag fire etc as their reason, but this is an apologist view. The Weimar Republic was hardly socialist, why do you think I say that? It was a liberal government, being heavily attacked by the far left, and in terms that were extremely negative in the name of communist internationalism.

            It’s no great mystery why Hitler was elected, and again we just use his own words, which along with most people you haven’t read, at least closely or critically. He explained how easy it was to sell his message since all he had to do was invert the message of his opponents on the far left (who were perceived as the real threat) and tell the Germans their society was worthwhile instead of crap, which is what the communists had been saying. Very little different to Trump today. Though not like Boris J, who is an intelligent conservative contrary to his critics.

          • Australian Inquisitor

            Hitler was not elected to power.
            Please read a history book.

          • JohnM

            DMTY wrote

            “Franz Ferdinand wanted to ameliorate by making Serbia more independent”

            which AI interpreted as

            “You also suggested that Franz Ferdinand wanted independence for Serbia”

            Not a stretch in my mind, but DMTY responded

            “Nowhere did I say F-F wanted independence for Serbia. Why do you keep
            repeating it? He didn’t want war with Serbia and thought he could
            mollify Serbian nationalism by creating a federated state in place of
            the existing command and control order. ”

            DMTY might want to recall that Serbia was an independent state. True, many Serbs lived in Austro-Hungary (AH) and you may have been trying to say that FF wanted those Serbs to have a degree of independence as a federated state within AH, but you didn’t say that, did you?

          • Dryermartinithanyours

            Hi John, yes you are quite right, thanks. He wrote that they had been under the heel of the Hungarians, so the entire strategy and sentiment is complex.

        • Australian Inquisitor

          Hitler wasn’t elected to power democratically. You might want to re-read any text on the matter

        • Central power

          Even David Irving would not subscribe to your rubbish masquerading as history. November 1932 elections – NSDAP 33% of the vote. March 1933 election 44% of the vote this (Hitler already the Chancellor) after the Reichstag fire and with terrible intimidation of voters by SA and SS.Hitler was appointed due to some shortsighted machinations.In January 1933, Hindenburg and von Papen met secretly with industrialists, army leaders and politicians and on 30 January offered Hitler the post of Chancellor. They thought they could control Hitler, thinking the support for the Nazis was in decline. They were wrong!

      • right1_left1

        Hitler did inplement vast public works , Volks Wagen manufacture and did send people on holiday.
        Are those policies socialist enough ?
        Very imprtant many say he broke free of the money as debt scam
        This has traditionally been the provence of private finance owned by those who may not be criticised !

        I have replied to the wrong poster Sorry.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    We are unable to post your comment because you have been blocked by Spectator Blogs. Find out more.

    • Randal

      You have been “no platformed” there, from the sound of it.

      With the latest opportunist turn to anti-s emite witch-hunting the establishment right has completed its adoption of the methods of the left.

  • tolpuddle1

    Trump’s supporters aren’t loopy – they’re in touch with reality; that the West is in swift economic and social (and thus foreign policy) decline.

    Whereas the elite Right haven’t twigged this, though they’ve had plenty of time to do so.

    Today’s Rightism = Capitalism, no more and no less.

    Therefore economic decline = death of Right.

  • tolpuddle1

    New Right, 1945-2008. Born of post-war prosperity, died when that prosperity collapsed.

    So it’s welcome back the Old Right.

    • Eques

      Ha! Good summary.

      Although owing to the gap the Old Right seem to think they’re the New Right.

      • gillardgone

        Although owing to the anti Semites the old leftist seem to think they are the racist left.

  • WTF

    Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear as Alan B’stard would say, Cruz is out leaving Trump an almost certain path to slay the *itch queen from h*ll, so much for tearing himself apart !!!

  • Trailblazer10

    Get on the Trump train, as he just said in his victory speech.

  • j33per

    “The extent to which these movements can be described as ‘fascist’ or
    even ‘far-right’ varies in each case, as does the credibility of their
    threat to the status quo”

    The left would love to think that they’ve completed the communist turnaround in Europe. The surge of pragmatists in Europe is fighting the threat to the status quo coming from the far left.

  • Trailblazer10

    The girls say get on the Trump Train:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_iMU0vO0uA

  • John Andrews

    People who describe those who disagree with them as a “barmy army” are make moderates evermore extreme.

    • nichap

      “In Trump, a.k.a. ‘Daddy’, they have an ideal candidate. It’s all very hilarious. It’s also deranged.”

      That’s a pretty standard approach to political discussion now, especially from the left: “I have a political opinion; you have a mental illness” Weren’t there mental hospitals and re-education camps in the old Soviet Union for those who had a different political opinion? Perhaps there will shortly be a 21st century use for them in the west?

  • WTF

    For the benefit of those who only recently took some interest in Trump and journalists who are in denial over what has happened, here’s a brief history of the past 9 months. If anything is certain in this election its this is uncharted territory for the establishment, pollsters and main stream media.

    Nine months ago Trump was viewed as a joke figure who would rapidly disappear. Didn’t happen

    He then made non PC ‘outrageous’ statements and they all said he had killed his chances. Didn’t happen.

    Then the establishment and their lackeys in MSM started to fret a bit and tried a bit of character assassination in the firm belief they could remove him in a week or two. Didn’t happen.

    They then got much nastier towards Trump and he replied in kind. After the dust had settled they were confident he was history. Didn’t happen.

    Trump continued his non PC rhetoric on issues that gelled with the electorate but drove the establishment into a mad frenzy with indignation. Then when the Sorros paid for thugs entered the fray and shut down his Chicago rally they breathed a short sigh of relief probably thanking the
    Dimocrats & Sorros for knocking him out of the race. Didn’t happen.

    Off to Wisconsin and Trump made a slight mistake (non fatal) in how the ‘patronage’ for delegates work and he lost to Cruz. Lesson learned, and as the Who song goes “Won’t get fooled again”. Trump decided to play by their ‘crooked’ rules after taking a small hit and got ready for the next leg.

    On to New York state and he turned down the rhetoric a tad and had a landslide victory winning 90%+ of the seats. Now Cruz was getting frantic for getting whopped in NY and did a pact with Kasich to try and hold Trump back. The pact lasted less than a day.

    Off to Indiana which should have been a Cruz win and Cruz named Carly Fiorina as a running
    mate. Things got nasty with name calling and the pundits said Trump had overstepped the mark. What happened ? Trump won a resounding victory in Indiana. Cruz suspended his campaign and 1 minute ago Kasich backed out as well.

    Do the journalists and establishment see a picture here ?

    There’s no guarantees in politics but Trump has confounded EVERYONE with his winning streak despite all the odds, all the experts, all the opposition and among the republicans, he’s Last Man Standing. Anything is possible against a Democratic serial liar whose ratings can only go down !

  • WTF

    For the benefit of those who only recently took some interest in Trump and journalists who are in denial over what has happened, here’s a brief history of the past 9 months. If anything is certain in this election its this is uncharted territory for the establishment, pollsters and main stream media.

    Nine months ago Trump was viewed as a joke figure who would rapidly disappear. Didn’t happen

    He then made non PC ‘outrageous’ statements and they all said he had killed his chances. Didn’t happen.

    Then the establishment and their lackeys in MSM started to fret a bit and tried a bit of character assassination in the firm belief they could remove him in a week or two. Didn’t happen.

    They then got much nastier towards Trump and he replied in kind. After the dust had settled
    they were confident he was history. Didn’t happen.

    Trump continued his non PC rhetoric on issues that gelled with the electorate but drove the establishment into a mad frenzy with indignation. Then when the Sorros paid for thugs entered the fray and shut down his Chicago rally they breathed a short sigh of relief probably thanking the
    Dimocrats & Sorros for knocking him out of the race. Didn’t happen.

    Off to Wisconsin and Trump made a slight mistake (non fatal) in how the ‘patronage’ for delegates work and he lost to Cruz. Lesson learned, and as the Who song goes “Won’t get fooled again”. Trump decided to play by their ‘crooked’ rules after taking a small hit and got ready for the next leg.

    On to New York state and he turned down the rhetoric a tad and had a landslide victory winning 90%+ of the seats. Now Cruz was getting frantic for getting whopped in NY and did a pact with Kasich to try and hold Trump back. That pact lasted less than a day.

    Off to Indiana which should have been a Cruz win and Cruz named Carly Fiorina as a running
    mate. Things got nasty with name calling and the pundits said Trump had overstepped the mark. What happened ? Trump won a resounding victory in Indiana. Cruz suspended his campaign and 1 minute ago Kasich backed out as well.

    Now there’s just a mopping up operation required in California and a few other states and Trumps position is secured for the final battle..

    Do the political parties, the political hacks and the establishment see a picture here and did they see it coming ? Probably not to the former and definitely not to the latter !

    There’s no guarantees in politics but Trump has confounded EVERYONE with his winning streak despite all the odds, all the experts, all the opposition and among the republicans, he’s Last Man Standing. Anything is possible against a Democratic serial liar whose ratings can only go down !

    Update: A Romanian hacker has just claimed he hacked the Clinton server !

  • Rob74

    ‘First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.’

    Mahatma Gandhi.

    I’d say we are at the fighting stage.

    You have no right to decry the result of your own ineptitude when you have proven beyond doubt that you are not up to the task of reining in the left. It is not a secret, for instance, that if the established right wing that is the Conservative party had chosen David Davis instead of David Cameron it is highly likely that UKIP would have remained a fringe party. Instead, you chose to beat New Labour by becoming New Labour and by doing so you vacated the centre right of the politosphere, leaving it open to be filled by UKIP.

    I find it pretty damning that you now attack those who have filled the void using such condescending language. It seems you believe you have the right to both inhabit the centre-left and the right wing at the same time. You haven’t even kept control of the right, and you have signally failed at keeping the left in check, so where are you deriving your authority?

    We will not dismantle the far left idiocy that has become the norm in western politics by voting for people like you Mr. Gray. It is time for stronger action.

    You are not offering us a remedy, only more of the same. I think we can both look around us and conclude that more of the same isn’t working.

Close