Features

How our politicians – and media – are helping terrorists win

Can you believe that after the Brussels attacks the BBC took us on a tour of vulnerable London Tube stations?

9 April 2016

9:00 AM

9 April 2016

9:00 AM

There is nothing a government in a remotely free country can do to stop a suicide bomber in a crowded space. As a weapon, he has the precision of a drone missile. The only preventive task open to the police and security service is to penetrate and destroy a terrorist cell in advance. This means assiduous intelligence. It has clearly held the key to disarming some 50 ‘terror plots’ known to the police over the past decade.

Every lesson in counter-terrorism warns against overreaction. But David Cameron seems oblivious to this truth. He appears to have no faith in the police to protect British citizens from terrorism. His reaction to the recent bombings in Brussels was to dive into his Cobra ‘bunker’ and emerge declaring that London was ‘under real threat… from appalling terrorists’. An attack on London, he said, was now ‘highly likely’. He has duly put 10,000 troops on standby. The SAS are ready with Osprey V-22 helicopters to race to an incident. London will have another 1,000 armed police and £143 million more for counter-terrorism. This is to be supported by the most draconian internet surveillance in the free world. For good measure, Donald Trump offered a descant, claiming that ‘Belgium and France are literally disintegrating’. He let Britain off for once.

I wonder what terrorist commanders back in Iraq made of this. Did they quake in their boots and cry woe? Or did they, as I suspect, gather round their television sets and cheer? They must have echoed Lenin in calling Cameron their useful idiot.

After an act of terror is committed, the murderer is usually dead. But this is merely the start of his programme. His purpose requires that the horror of his deed be magnified a thousand times to engineer his political goal. Bruce Hoffman, in his classic Inside Terrorism, stresses the role of ‘psychological repercussions beyond the immediate victim or target’. Terrorism’s objective is not just to kill but ‘to create power where there is none, through the publicity generated by their violence’. As Isis has shown, publicity is terror’s ‘second wave’. It is the megaphone. Without publicity, terrorism is just dead bodies.

That is why the media is counter-terrorism’s Achilles heel. It knows no restraint. These days it is one long 24/7 scream of horror and fear, attended by no protocol of caution or self-censorship. I could not believe that the BBC after Brussels would take us on a tour of vulnerable London Tube stations. Small wonder that any democratic leader, faced with such a mass outrage, feels obliged to offer exaggerated reassurance. These two responses — from the media and politics — are like whirling dervishes, dancing to terrorism’s beat, with Isis gleefully orchestrating them from afar.


During the IRA terrorism in the 1980s — more lethal than anything experienced today — Thatcher was emphatic that the perpetrators be treated as common criminals. They should be denied ‘the oxygen of publicity’ or the status of a political cause. She understood that honouring them as warriors played into their hands.

Cameron seems oblivious to this precedent. He must know there is nothing that 10,000 soldiers or SAS helicopters can do to stop a London bomb, any more than anti-aircraft missiles on tower blocks could protect the Olympics. It is pure bravado. When Tony Blair sent tanks to Heathrow in 2002 ‘as a deterrent’ he won headlines, but cost the tourist industry 15 per cent in cancelled foreign bookings. That a suicide bomber might be deterred by a tank was ludicrous.

Treating atrocities as acts of war is what the terrorist craves. He wants to be seen as a jihadist taking the struggle to the infidel. He wants acres of coverage. He wants statesmen and soldiers to snap to attention at the mention of his name. He wants to frighten the enemies of Islam into curbing liberties and oppressing Muslims. Osama bin Laden’s ambition was explicitly political, to exasperate America so as to drive its influence from the lands of Islam.

After 9/11, the West responded to bin Laden by doing the opposite. Armies were dispatched round the globe. But their objectives were chaotic, variously declared to be punitive, humanitarian, anti-terrorist and nation-building. Suspects were rounded up, interned, tortured and imprisoned. Liberties were infringed. A quarter of a million Muslims were killed, at a cost of a staggering trillion dollars. The 2004 American bombing of Fallujah was surely a war crime. The antagonism generated among Iraq’s Sunnis yielded an anarchy that handed Isis a caliphate on a plate. Nothing so awful has been seen in the region for a hundred years.

Through it all, the perpetrators of terror seem to have grown bolder, the lines of recruits longer, the massacres bloodier. As Professor Richard English of Belfast said in Terrorism: How To Respond, despite vast resources, ‘The reality is that attacks and threats of attacks have not diminished.’ An entire region has joined a conflict that has ‘deepened the very disaffection from which terrorist atrocity is generated’. Terror has been constantly goaded on by ‘ill-judged, extravagant and counter-productive state responses’.

A terrorist incident is not an act of war, not the conquest of territory. It deploys extreme violence to turn military weakness into political strength. It does this not by the tally of death and destruction but through the multiplier effect of the response. The sensible strategy concentrates on minimising that response. In theory this should be easy, since response is the one thing the terrorist cannot order. He is gone. His success or failure depends on the responders, the host governments, doing his will. They become accessories after the fact.

The obvious reaction to terror is not to be terrorised. It is, as New York’s mayor, Rudy Giuliani, told his citizens after 9/11, to ‘buy a pizza, take the kids to the park, see a show’. They must not run for cover or let the terrorists change their lives.

No one paid attention. To the media, terrorism is meat and drink. To politicians, it is an opportunity to flex muscles, brandish guns, boast revenge. Talk of war adds ten points to an approval rating. It saved George Bush as it is now saving France’s François Hollande. Counter-terror theory may advise caution and an emphasis on normality. Political necessity counsels the opposite; the trumpets and drums of battle. It requires the terrorist’s deeds to be amplified, headlined, exaggerated to justify a warlike response.

Joseph Conrad’s thesis that ‘the terrorist and the policeman come from the same basket’ still haunts this debate. The reckless crusade against militant Islam proclaimed by Bush and Blair, like their wars on poverty and drugs, began as rhetoric. It was soon captured by the military-industrial complex. Anyone who witnessed the Afghan and Iraq wars at close quarters was mesmerised at how uncontrolled soldiers became when confronted by a civilian population. Each war acquires a logic independent of its cause. As the former defence chief Lord Guthrie has remarked, ‘since 9/11 America has spent a thousand times more on hard power than on soft’.

A genuinely ‘tough’ response to terror should be severely to downplay its impact. It bids us to calmly police the domestic soil in which terror takes shallow root. It pleads with Muslim leaders to look to their own, and with the media not to play terror’s game. It avoids the political machismo of soldiers and gunships. It does not curb liberties or wage wars.

Such restraint may not be in the culture of today’s politics. But Thatcher was right. Terrorism is best regarded as a criminal abomination. Only a careless democracy gives it power.

Simon Jenkins is a columnist for the Guardian and former editor of the Times. His books include Mission Accomplished? The Crisis of International Interventionism.

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Show comments
  • Joe Long

    “During the IRA terrorism in the 1980s — more lethal than anything experienced today”

    This is complacent nonsense. We know for instance that Islamist terrorists have photographed potential targets in Birmingham including Grand Central station and one of the football grounds. They obviously want to do Paris, Brussels style massacres here – that is far beyond what the IRA ever wanted to do on mainland Britain. They would generally phone in warnings of their bombings, sometimes botched of course – but they had no intention of causing the mass civilian casualties that the Islamist terrorists desire so fervently.

    Your spin is very deceitful Jenkins

    the first Islamist terrorist plot in Birmingham occurred before Iraq and Afghanistan

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-21458869

    “Radicalisation” has gone very deep

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2007/jan/07/broadcasting.channel4

    The root issue here is deeply dangerous alien colonisation

    • Shazza

      Well said What people like Jenkins and all the other useful idiots on the Left don’t understand is that the aim of the IRA was to get Northern Ireland out of the UK. The IRA had and has no ambition whatsoever to convert the inhabitants of the UK to Catholicism or convert them to the Northern Irish way of life.

      When it comes to ISIS/fundamental islam or moderate islam it is entirely different. Their aim is to convert or as they ridiculously claim ‘revert’ the whole of the non-muslim population worldwide to their 7th century Dark Ages ideology. This will be achieved by a combination of appeasement to terror (becoming the norm) and ‘hijrah’ the jihadic exhortation to colonise via immigration.

      Islam is only doing what it says on the tin – as Erdogan has stated on many occasions ‘there is no moderate islam, only islam’ and our quisling leaders either refuse to listen or believe these people or there has to be some other valid reason for their wilful blindness and deafness.

      • Joe Long

        Quite – the Northern Ireland comparison fails in any way Jenkins chooses to spin it. As well as wholly differing aims and objectives and modus operandi(as regards mass casualty terrorism in Britain) I recall a Times report which said that there were never more than 200 IRA effectives at any one time, total. McCabe, a B’ham Lab MP, has been informed that there hundreds of potential Islamist terrorists in the West Midlands alone. Obviously that is far beyond any surveillance capability the State has – so what’s Jenkins advocating? – a passive defence plus vigils afterwards no doubt. Well, isn’t that just wonderful.

        Another factor Jenkins obviously wouldn’t want to engage with is the explosive demographics – which means more “fish” as Mao put it, and more water for them to swim in.

        His brand of sanctimony has great currency with the Guardian, but in the real world, it just doesn’t cut it.

        There is a parallel though, and not much to the Guardian’s liking. The Northern Ireland “Troubles” were(are) the long term fall-out of a colonisation event – the Plantation of Ulster, from which was reaped a most bitter harvest.

        Here is the true parallel, thanks to the purblind stupidity – and worse – of the Westminster regime colonies have become entrenched in many British towns and cities – the malignancy presents in the form of a number of tumours, jihadism is of course one – another is the foul grooming epidemic. As per the current trial count that’s over 30 English towns and cities.

        Over the past few months there have been further group convictions in Rochdale(total 5), Rotherham and Keighley – a second Oxford trial is underway, the Halifax and Newcastle trials involving large groups are upcoming.

        But that’s the sort of thing that Jenkins, the Guardian and the BBC don’t care to dwell on – just in case the public sees the bigger picture.

        • Mr B J Mann

          You’ve been reading the Guardian again, haven’t you?!

          Most of the “English” visitations to Ireland were Normans, Welsh, etc, accepting Irish invites to help out in brotherly fall-outs.

          And the “Plantations” were a return of the Scots to Ulster. The Scots were the Ulstermen who invaded and colonised Pictland!

      • logdon

        The Cartoon Riots indicated the way British Muslim attitudes had evolved.

        Can anyone tell me of any similar pro-PIRA marches or demonstrations?

  • ChuckieStane

    Blair sent tanks to Heathrow in 2003 (not 2002 as stated above) not ‘as a deterrent’ but as a cynical ploy to increase tension and sway wavering MPs in the then impending vote on the Iraq war. The rest as we say is history and we are where we are as a result.

    The supposed reason for the Heathrow deployment was “real” intelligence that Al-Qaeda planned to use surface to air missiles at Heathrow. Potentially, if true, those missiles are still out there but once the vote was in the bag the government surprisingly became very relaxed about the threat.

  • Mark

    Appease, appease, pull wool over eyes, appease, appease, there’s an acceptable level of violence and threat that we must all learn to live with so that globalisation and multiculturalism can work, all tosh, all disproved by the British success in binning Communist Terrorists in Malaya in the 50s and 60s, by sustained intellectual opposition to the enemy ideology, and sustained military operations against the enemy.

    Drain the swamp, and make the terrorists life stressful and short.

    But instead we have mass migration, state enforced respect for the enemies ideology, and dither when it comes to confronting the enemy and his support.

    Simon, the supporters of sharia law and their appeasers are the enemies of the western way of life.

    How many suicide bombers have there been in Israel recently? Walls work, carefully profiled intelligence activity works.

    • JohnnyNorfolk

      Thank you Mark Trump you are spot on.

    • Mr B J Mann

      Not being and acting terrorised isn’t the same as appeasement.

      We can, and should, squash the terrorists AND limit immigration AND refuse to be panicked AND refuse to give them the publicity they want!

  • Richard Young

    All that talk of terror,terrorism and terrorists.On and on right through the article and yet when the ‘M’ word is mentioned,it is as victims.Ho hum,should have known.

    • KingEric

      Simon did used to work for the Guardian so he can’t help himself. Probably too ingrained in him now to ever see the light.

      • Richard Young

        The Guardian eh? It figures.

    • Pip

      No truth to be gleaned in the Speccy, just propaganda and lies.

  • grimm

    Douglas Murray warned us about the predictable responses from media commentators which always follow a terrorist outrage and here is Simon Jenkins particular variant.

    Jenkins effort follows the typical liberal intellectual format:
    We are not being clever enough in fighting terrorism
    Panic and hysteria are leading to unwarrented crackdowns on our freedoms
    (in spite of the fact that people in general have not succumbed to panic as they have not engaged in a backlash against the Muslim community)
    The writer is really, really keen on fighting terrosism but he wants to do it in an intelligent way
    We are playing into the terrorists hands by taking any aggressive action
    Don’t alienate a certain community best not mentioned by name

    All this ammounts to a typical liberal intellectual strategy. Keep calm and do nothing but opinionate because no action can ever be clever enough.

    • stuartMilan

      for Jenkins and company, the only thing that doesn’t play into the Islamiists’ hands is appeasement

    • SunnyD

      bloody right! sounds like more of the flowery nonsense we got from Simon Schama in Toronto recently…

    • Dr. Heath

      Brilliant.

    • Pip

      Little will change until sufficient numbers of voters wake up to the fact that it is the Government and establishment who are the problem, not their invented narratives and engineered threats.

    • JohnnyNorfolk

      We know who they are so lets go and get them. You have to fight fire with fire. The sooner the better before even more are killed. Its the wet responce that is the problem. Lets open the Isle of Man again.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      If you want to meet the immigrants, take a taxi.

  • davidofkent

    Terrorists will always have some successes. The task of governments in decent, democratic countries is to ensure that such successes are minimised. There is only one answer in today’s world, and that is intelligence. In Walsingham’s day, we would have used the rack on anybody who looked a possible terrorist. Now we have to employ intelligence in gathering intelligence. Most Western governments understand this, I am sure, and I tend to agree with the writer that police with machine guns and the army with tanks are merely a PR exercise. Overall, the inhabitants of Western countries have taken the view that at home they should keep calm and carry on. Abroad, OTOH, our tourists have at last decided to quit those beaches where the local terrorists have easy access to them.

    • right1_left1

      quote
      Abroad, OTOH, our tourists have at last decided to quit those beaches where the local terrorists have easy access to them
      endquote

      As intended by the terrorists:thus undermining the economies of such places and strengthening the ‘hand’ of the terrorists.

    • Pretty_Polly

      Britain of course is not a ‘decent democratic country’ because every government for many decades has forced the British people to accept mass immigration when they clearly never wanted it.

      You must be thinking of somewhere else..

  • newname

    “A genuinely ‘tough’ response to terror should …. it pleads with Muslim leaders to look to their own”
    What on earth does this mean?

  • Revd Robert West

    The problem is Islam and not just the latest tactics of those who adhere to Jihad.

    To die in the cause of God, killing for God, is the only way a Mohammedan can be sure of getting to heaven, and of doing so at once: they would otherwise have to wait till resurrection day, and learn their fate then. But this theology of murder, suicide and terror is far from being the only problem with Islam. Islam also carries with it the sharia, as well as the jihad; and within the sharia there is the concept of dhimitude – a second-class, servile and persecuted status for all non-Moslems in a majority Mahommedan situation.

    There are a number of things we should consider: firstly, break the sharia’s connection with public life; this is what Kemal Ataturk (a Mohammedan himself) did in Turkey to secularise and modernise it. It was amazingly successful, at first, but may not be a permanent solution, given the revival of Mohammedanism in that country.

    Secondly, stop all Mohammedan immigration into England. That will put space between us and them without allowing them to put themselves over us, or undermine our freedoms. They like to be by themselves and away from the ‘unclean’ anyway. Grant them their wish.

    Thirdly, mass repatriation to Mohammed-land, where they can have their ‘paradise’ of no churches, no crosses, no Jews, no polytheists (including Christians), no democracy and no free speech or thought.

    In the Holy Bible God separated the genealogical nations each into their own countries (Genesis 10: 5, 20, 31, 32). Before that the Earth was filled with violence and it repented the LORD that He had made man (Genesis 6: 6). Since then we have had a modicum of peace in comparison. It has not been a good idea bringing back the nations together, has it. You should have read the Bible before you passed the Immigration Act of 1948.

    • SunnyD

      I prefer you to Father Todd Unctious any day

    • red2black

      So it was fine for us to go to them, but not for them to come to us?

      • Revd Robert West

        Did I say that? However, Britain has now left Mohemmed-land and given them their independence. Whilst we were there we also did some good. Surely we need to do some good now, for ourselves, and claim our own independence. We will soon have an opportunity so to do.

        • red2black

          No, you didn’t say that, but one-way traffic (missionaries for example) has always seemed to be acceptable enough. We had two World Wars before immigration was an issue. As an aside, I’m currently about to finish ‘The Black Ship’ by Dudley Pope, about a mutiny aboard HMS Hermione in the late eighteenth century. It’s been a long time since people were confined to their particular geographical pigeon-holes.

          • Revd Robert West

            But the missionaries have been repatriated, which is my point surely. We can only begin where we are and we cannot put the clock back. My solution is: (1) stop mass immigration; (2) deport illegals and those convicted of serious crime; and (3) voluntary incentive repatriation for those (a) who cannot accept Western values or (b) wish to return to their original homes for other reasons.

          • red2black

            Last week’s ‘Tonight’ programme stated that Immigration is now the leading issue for people as far as the EU Referendum is concerned. The deportation of illegals already takes place, and some convicted of serious crimes are deported after serving time; I’m sure many people believe deportations of illegals and criminals should be stepped-up. There has been the occasional case of requested repatriation, but a financially incentivised process would probably have to be paid for by the taxpayer.

          • Revd Robert West

            Many thanks for your highly informative response: I am happy for the tax payer to pay. Someone has to, and nothing good and worthwhile is for free.

          • red2black

            Thanks for your replies. My guess is that those in power will back-pedal and revise things enough to stay in power. We do usually end up with some sort of compromise.

          • Mr B J Mann

            You’re right, for once!

            Afghanistan was once half Buddhist, half Christian (Christianity is a Middle Eastern Religion, you do know that, don’t you?!), now it’s been colonised by the Muslims.

            Much of India was once Buddhist (Buddha was an Indian) and some was probably Christian, now it’s been colonised by the Muslims.

            Much of Egypt was once Christian, all once worshipped the Pharonic Gods, now it’s been colonised by the Muslims.

            Istanbul, and probably much of Turkey was probably once mainly Christian, now it’s been colonised by the Muslims.

            Spain, Sicily, Southern Italy, parts of Southern France were Christian, then they were colonised by the Muslims.

            Likewise the Balkans were once Christian, then they were colonised by the Muslims.

            And when I say colonised, I mean invaded, killed, r-aped, tortured, enslaved…..

            And forced to convert.

            Or hand over your first born sons (to be castrated) and prettiest daughters (as s-x slaves) and pay a tax to remain alive as third class citizens in your own land.

            And that carried on until well into the 19th Century in the Balkans.

            And then at the end of the 20th Century Nato and the EU opened up all the old wounds and restarted the colonisation of the Balkans on behalf of the Saudis!?!?!?!?!

            Invading Christian lands, r-ping and killing the Christians, carrying out a genocide of them, handing over their lands to the Muslim mujahadeen and jihadis to colonise, and blaming the Christians for everything that happened!!!!!

            The Barbary Pirates couldn’t have done a better job!

            Did somebody mention ” one-way traffic”?!

            I think your brain cell is holding up a “No Entry” sign!

          • red2black

            Only to add that while everything you describe is going on, they manage to get rid of even more of their own kind at the same time. Remarkable.

      • The_Missing_Think

        No, BNP Gandhi said it wasn’t fine, and we got the boot.

        Do try to keep up.

        • red2black

          My reply to the Reverend concerned what he calls ‘Mohammed-land’.
          Hinduism has always had strong links to Nationalism.

          • The_Missing_Think

            On a map, what is the name of this ‘Mohammed-land’, that you say ‘we’ went to?

          • red2black

            Ask the Reverend; the term is his.

          • The_Missing_Think

            But you clearly stated ‘we’ went there.

            So if you know ‘we’ went there, you must know where it is ‘we’ went. (logic… yeah?).

            So where did ‘we’ go?

            Isn’t BNP Gandhi a great role model to emulate?

          • red2black

            There’s a good number of Christian Missions in Muslim countries included in this article:
            http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2011/september/muslim-missions.html
            Gandhi was a Hindu, and Hinduism has always had strong links with Indian Nationalism.
            If someone’s a Nationalist, they have plenty of great role models to emulate as well as Gandhi.
            I’m not a role model emulating type of person.

          • The_Missing_Think

            “If someone’s a Nationalist, they have plenty of great role models to emulate as well as Gandhi.”

            Nick Griffin?… who?

          • red2black

            Take your pick. Gandhi’s in there somewhere: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_figures_in_nationalism

          • The_Missing_Think

            Yawn… where did ‘we’ go again?

          • red2black

            Round in circles. Nighty-night now.

          • The_Missing_Think

            “Nighty-night now.”

            Checkmate and resign it is then, thanks for the game. (“So it was fine for us to go to ‘them'”).

          • red2black

            Not so fast. I find some of your replies cryptic. If you’re comparing the BNP to the Indian National Congress (I’ve had to Google some of this stuff to find out what you’re on about), then as far as them being Nationalist parties in their respective countries, fair enough. The only work I’ve part-read about Aryan Hinduism concerned Savitri Devi, aka ‘Hitler’s Priestess’, a book by Nicholas Goodrick-Clarke.
            Britain has a long history of involvement in other countries’ affairs, including Muslim ones, whether ‘invited in’ as a military presence, by military conquest, occupation and colonisation, religious missions, or more lately in some sort of role as part of a Western Allied force, whether ‘invited in’ or not, such as in the Middle East.

          • The_Missing_Think

            “Not so fast.”
            _____

            Too late now sunshine, your ‘fast’ resignation was issued and accepted.

            “If you’re comparing the B… National…. P to the Indian… National…. Congress”

            BNP – ANC.

            Yeah… the word ‘National’ is just so, so cryptic and confusing… when white people use it. Well spotted.

            Nighty-night now.

          • red2black

            Don’t be such a sissy. I always thought you boys had a brain, a backbone, and a pair of balls, but evidently not. Sweet dreams, duckie.

          • The_Missing_Think

            Playing your gay card won’t work, but… if it makes you feel better…

          • red2black

            It’s only a bit of fun. Nothing against ‘National’ by the way, even when White people use it.
            There’s always NSDAP, but the S always seems to get far more attention than it really deserves.

          • The_Missing_Think

            I was also joking… didn’t you realise?

            Glad to hear you’re pro BNP, that’s the spirit.

          • red2black

            Pro BNP? I’m not pro any particular political party. Way back in the mid-1970s one of my college lecturers was a BNP supporter, and he seemed to be a reasonable enough sort of chap; he ran a very successful antiques business at the same time as being a full-time lecturer, which was very unusual in those days. At the time I didn’t agree with what the historian David Irving was about, but I didn’t agree with him being barred from speaking by student groups. To be fair, as far as I know, for the three years I was there, he was the only speaker barred.

          • Mr B J Mann

            They seem to be places where Muslim “missionaries” invaded, erm, spread the (s)word to, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu and Zoroastrian countries.

            You might find this amusing:

            http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

          • red2black

            Much more of it, and they’ll be getting a bad name for themselves.

    • barnubus

      Quite agree.The muslim population of the UK stands at 4.4% .I suggest adoption of a public policy to gradually reduce this number by repatriation (with a cash incentive) plus deportation for those involved in encouraging acts of terrorism or other criminal acts.

  • right1_left1

    quote:
    A terrorist incident is not an act of war, not the conquest of
    territory. It deploys extreme violence to turn military weakness into
    political strength. It does this not by the tally of death and
    destruction but through the multiplier effect of the response.
    endquote

    This statement and the rest of the paragraph from which it is taken is nonsense.
    Islamic terrorism is intended to support the implementation of a conquest ( and therefore can be considered as an act of war)
    Which particular caliphate that will be implemented is to be settled amongst themselves by the ‘caliphateers’ using sufficient violence as is necessary.

    It’s not even true that harsh measures were not used against the IRA
    Remember ‘bloody sunday’ and the financial bonanza of the later inquiry.
    adding:and the Gibralter shooting.

    Jenkins’ outlook would have police dancing in the streets, handing out leaflets, visiting schools and treating Islamic communities with kid gloves
    That is until the next mainland atrocity occurred.

    Furthermore Jenkins states explicitly that intelligence will solve the problem.
    It may thwart a particular incident but it will not stop the dedicated terrorist from future attemps to kill.
    Islam is dangerous.

    • Hybird

      “Jenkins’ outlook would have police dancing in the streets, handing out leaflets…”

      Can’t have that. Dancing is un-Islamic.

  • JOhn Mackie

    Insofar as this article is somewhat critical of CallMeDave, I want to agree, but the FACT is the these ARE military attacks by an army of Muslims which we have foolishly allowed into our house and are now a fifth column.

    They are not merely ‘common criminals’ and implicitly just part of our society being naughty.

    They mean to destroy our country and our way of life.

    Where CallMeDave is wrong is in his relentless (and utterly wrong) depiction of them as following/being a perversion of Islam. They are not. They are the REAL PURE Islam that periodically, over couple of hundred years, rears its ugly head when it sees the opportunity and any sign of weakness in European cultures.

    • Joe Long

      “They are not merely ‘common criminals’ ”

      Indeed, the grooming gang epidemic for instance has very deep cultural roots, it’s plain dishonest and facile to claim that this is merely a matter of criminality.

      • DearyMe

        It was having heard the Jay Report that I did a bit more delving into this ‘continuing’ abhorrent crime. I say ‘continuing’ because I feel some folk simply believe it stopped with Jay and at the gates of Rotherham. The media interest seems to have typically declined, no in depth investigative documentaries anymore and as to what progress Keith Vaz and the ‘Home Affairs Select Committee’ is making who knows?
        As most understood, if they read the report, Jay was typically PC in her style but served a very important service in bringing the grooming gang rape issue to the nation’s attention. I went on to read a report on Gavin Boby’s site “Easy Meat” and it doesn’t hold back in the slightest, nor does it simply concentrate on Rotherham instead looking nationwide at actual convicted grooming groups. It was a shock to me, even after Jay, to learn just how much the raping of these young girls was culturally and religiously connected. The depravity of these men is something else. I went on to read the Qur’an after that (in a chronological and easy to read none repetitive format). There are times I wished I hadn’t, still, can’t put the clock back now and at least I have some understanding of the “Religion of Peace”.

        • Joe Long

          I’ve just read the updated Easy Meat by Peter McLouglin, published in book form – available on Amazon.

          McLoughlin indeed makes the point that there is a suspicious tendency to put “Asian” grooming in a big box labelled Rotherham, and smaller one – Rochdale; media focus here has been wholly disproportionate, it looks like a deliberate policy to “shape” opinion. But of course there was never anything exceptional about Rotherham as such, just the fact that the council files were leaked to the Times. Bradford and Birmingham, where there have hardly been any convictions, must be much worse.

          The Daily Mail has been pretty good – the latest Oxford trial, just started, has been reported there. But generally it is a sinister picture, recent trials have generally not been reported at all by the MSM when they are in progress – I did notice a despicable exception to this in the Guardian with the Keighley trial couple of months back. At one point it apparently looked as though the victim’s testimony wouldn’t stand up in court – the Guardian did a report on that and you could almost feel that they were willing the prosecution to fail; they are beneath contempt of course.

          The policy overall appears to be not to report ongoing process, but to report the conclusion of the trial and the sentencing – hoping that the great majority of people won’t even notice that. How many know that the last few months have seen further group/convictions for “localised grooming” in Rochdale, Rotherham and Keighley; that there is another Oxford trial proceeding; that the Halifax trial – the largest yet in terms of the number of defendants is begining, and that the Newcastle trial must be upcoming shortly?

          The effect of this is that the public isn’t able to appreciate the scale and the scope of it, and to contextualise it.

          As for comment pieces analysing the epidemic – well we can go whistle for those; far too awkward for that. The false equivalence of Savile has run out of road, and the diversionary black Ops – eg Midland have crumbled into dust.

          So we are pretty much back to the pre-Andrew Norfolk 2011 dispensation which may be summed up as three “wise” monkeys. Despicable.

          As for Vaz, Jayne Senior who leaked the Risky Business files to Andrew Norfolk, was promised that his Committee would return to what she was telling them “again and again”; I haven’t noticed that happening – although to be fair Operation Stovewood on Rotherham grooming is set to become the largest criminal investigation in British history.

          McLouglin is very good on the cultural religious aspects, a short but effective survey. I admire your diligence in reading the Book, I couldn’t get on with it – Michel Houellebecq’s verdict is enough for me

          http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/dec/16/michel-houllebecq-france-submission-soumission-muslim-islam-president

          • DearyMe

            “…the largest yet in terms of the number of defendants is begining, and that the Newcastle trial must be upcoming shortly?”

            I have to say Joe, I wasn’t aware of the “Newcastle” case or that it has the most defendants to date, guess I can put it down to either missing it or most likely the media doing their utmost to keep it low key. I sigh on a daily basis at the way our left of centre media report on a range of topics, the BBC’s Radio 4 from around 7am is normally where I start sighing.

            I haven’t read any of Michel Houellebecq’s books, I may have to take the plunge but thanks for the link. A friend recently recommended “Dark Albion” by David Abbott. He was a 1940’s child and describes how the demographic and social fabric of his locale in and around Greenwich has changed beyond recognition due to immigration during his lifetime. He’s very descriptive, being an ex-sports journalist helps somewhat, and doesn’t have a PC bone in his body. He expands to even have a chapter on Mr Vaz, and ends with his own short version of what sounds a very Houellebecq”esque” scenario, but of Britain under Islamic rule. I sleep with the light on now, ha!

          • Joe Long

            I think it’s actually Halifax which has the largest number of accused – 25, Newcastle – under the auspices of Operation Sanctuary – there’s about 20/22. It’s definitely not R4 territory.

            I’ll get Dark Albion -it’s going to be depressing no doubt. Houellebcq’s “Submission” isn’t an easy read, there is a fairly obscure(to me anyway) French literary theme, but’s very worthwhile. It’s definitely Vichy territory, as the great and the good sell out the European heritage and submit.

          • DearyMe

            Your spot on as far as “Dark Albion” being a little “depressing” though interesting, an easy read and I understand entirely where Mr Abbott is coming from. My mistake re Newcastle, I’m apt to make such errors.

  • Dr. Heath

    Jenkins, surprisingly, urges restraint. Anyone familiar with his points of view on serious issues may recall that it’s usually inactivity this Granudia-ista ninny usually recommends.

    Terrorism requires money, volunteers, guns and explosives. All four are in abundant supply. A territory the size of Spain is being used by terrorists to gather in taxes and the revenues from kidnapping, extortion, smuggling and petroleum sales [often, it seems, to Bashar Assad’s regime] to fund the volunteers, guns and explosives. Entirely in keeping with the output of someone who’s disconnect with reality is total, Jenkins’s article denies that this is a war.

    War is the only term in the English language that applies to this horror. We know where the men and women who arrange for us to be bombed and machine-gunned are and we know where their oil tankers and arms depots are and, in the post-Clinton/post-Blair age, our milksop leaders have decided to next to nothing about it. Guns and explosive are shipped across Europe and stored in hundreds of locations that the EU’s Keystone Cops can not or will not deal with due to their trouser-browning fear of turning moderate Muslims into extremists.

    Journalists, clearly out of an absurdly huge sense of their own importance, view possible ‘solutions’ to this in terms of their own in fact minor role in the war against the psychos who want to kill us and, as one Iranian commentator rightly said, create a wasteland wherever their Caliph does not rule. Certain enemies are not going to be mollified or placated by anything we say or do. We have to find them first and carry out the expensive and traumatic business of rubbing them out. It’s what they want and we ought to get busy helping them along their route to oblivion.

  • sfin

    9/11 required a nuclear response.

    • red2black

      Rumour was that the Hawks in the US Military suggested vapourising Mecca.

      • ChuckieStane

        Mecca is in Saudi and Osama was a Saudi but Saudi is the great ally of those Hawks so Iraq was the surrogate punchbag

        • red2black

          Fair enough. That was the rumour. No-one knows what would have happened if their wish had been granted.

      • sfin

        That would have been playing your Ace, way too early.

        Kandahar should have been removed from the map, at a cost of around 100,000 – dollars and lives, with Kabul next in the potential firing line.

        People talk about the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki – but they rarely talk about the lives and money saved by those two strikes. It was the last time Western civilisation faced an existential threat from a fanatical, suicidal enemy, bent on violently imposing its ideology on us.

        It worked.

        • Major Plonquer

          Yes, what exactly does our nuclear deterrent deter? Surely many Muslims would agree if we dropped the big one on their heads. They’d be martyrs – what they’re teaching their children are good. It would, however, lead to a Heavenly shortage of virgins.

        • red2black

          Many thousands of American Servicemen were killed for many weeks before Hiroshima. Even after Nagasaki, some Japanese, such as the Thunder God Squadron, continued a fight considered futile even by their own men. We now have to take into account a possible nuclear response from at least one Muslim country.

          • sfin

            But they prevented an invasion of the Japanese mainland – which prevented many hundreds of thousands more deaths and uncountable resources…

            There is no muslim, nuclear country with an intercontinental delivery capability (thank God!). Pakistan’s nuclear arsenal has been severely curtailed to ‘tactical’ nuclear weapons using, hugely outdated, enriched uranium technology.

          • red2black

            I agree with you about Japan. The worry now seems to be that IS or some other outfit will eventually acquire nuclear weapons. Pakistan’s nuclear capability may be limited and outdated, but I guess it would still do a lot of damage.

          • Mr_Twister-Morpheus

            O/t (comments closed where I would have replied to you at ConservativeWoman re: Trump v Cruz)
            Cruz = Goldman sachs, unless that’s no problem for you?
            Also Maybe try…
            The Truth About Ted Cruz: http://youtu.be/xtL41Pr2d5s

            Have a good dy.

          • sfin

            Thanks for the link – I’ll be sure to check it out.

  • SunnyD

    The response I want to see is for every commentator/journalist at every opportunity to ask members of the supposed RoP how they feel about people who seek to emulate the life of Mo and live under Sharia law? IS child (forced) marriage is Islam ready to submit that women and children have the same inalienable right to be treated by people the way those people would like to be treated, rather than as, say, property (for example)? I want the questions to get tougher, I wanna see well known figures squirm a little as they seek to reconcile any barbaric 7th century ideals they may have lurking inside (be it due to programming/conditioning or choice) with the realities of life in the UK in the 21st century….

    The onslaught needs to be relentless. Uncomfortable questions need to be asked and they need to be asked NOT with prejudice, or in a loaded way, these questions will help to call TRUE Islam out for what it is: (insert your own plethora of analogies, although the Charles Manson metaphor is one I prefer). Life’s moving fast…. progress is being made every day in so many ways…we have freedoms we never ever thought we’d have…and there are so many more freedoms to come…… Exactly HOW does Islam integrate itself into such a society as ours? Can it?

    Islam wants its time in the spotlight? come into the spotlight, Islam. Let us hold you up to a microscope so we can ALL see how wonderful Allah’s words are and how glorious it really must be to have lived the messianic life that Mohammed obviously did. Jokes should be allowed to be told without threats of repercussions. Cartoon contests should be held each year as a show of good faith. Islam needs to submit (at long last) and agree to get on the same train as us – or agree to get off at the next stop, if it doesn’t want to pay the fare.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Unlikely , for our broadcast media are indoctrinated into the belief we are always responsible to for the RoP’s terrorist actions against us, as such no difficult questions will ever be asked of them.

      • SunnyD

        I doubt they’re indoctrinated more than they are the actual indoctrinators – but your point is a valid one. There are thankfully a proportion of us who know that the media doesn’t reflect public opinion, it shapes it, and as such, we’re disinclined to swallow everything we’re told by the newsreaders and editors. This portion of the general public needs to unite in opposition to the usual lies about religions of peace, aberrations of doctrine and fingers of blame.

    • Shazza

      I totally agree with you and that we need open debate and discussion about islam but we all know that will never, ever be allowed. However, islam cannot change. Look at what happened to Asad Shah in Glasgow who had the temerity to wish his host nation a happy Easter – the peaceful Ahmadis are considered apostates and sharia law demands their punishment. Muslims believe that M’s word was the final and definitive word of their deity. No amount of rational argument will sway them from this – even in the face of science, I remember Mehdi Hassan (he of the infamous youtube rant wherein he described what he really thinks of non muslims) saying that he believed that M ascended to heaven on a winged horse – he is an ‘educated’ muslim brought up in the West.

      That says it all.

      • Blindsideflanker

        We also got that Scottish Muslim politician on the news , saying all the usual things about how terrible the murder was, but couldn’t help himself by adding the odd excuse in as well by pointing to ‘Islamophobia’.

        • Shazza

          They always play the victim card. They are masters of the art of inverting reality and the truth.

          • Hybird

            In my experience, Muslims will lie and lie even when there is no logical reason for doing so. I think they take pride in getting one over on the kuffar.

        • Mr Grumpy

          Well, the murder of Asad Shah was (on the evidence made public so far) indeed Islamophobic. It was by far the worst Islamophobic crime committed in this country over the past 11 years.

          • Blindsideflanker

            I note the police call it a religious prejudice .

          • Mr Grumpy

            It should be called Islamophobic loudly and repeatedly.

          • Joe Long

            Yes, not religious hatred, or religiously motivated.

            This was low even by the standard pusillanimous, Quisling poltroonery they set years ago when their cringing political correctness led to the death of Kriss Donald

            http://www.scotsman.com/news/race-based-murder-conviction-but-no-inquiry-1-562581

      • SunnyD

        That point about Asad Shah shouldn’t be left to rest forever unchallenged. It, and examples like it, need to be called out (for what they are) consistently and constantly. Likewise, regressives like Hassan should be prepared for “silly” questions about his thoughts on winged horses. If debate on it be banned, then this too needs to be called out. Publicly. They can even try and shut us up through threat of prosecution. Prison doesn’t scare me. I’d gladly do time for speaking my mind.

        • Shazza

          He made his comment to Richard Dawkins during a debate.

          Of course the Asad Shah murder will be kept out of the limelight, in line with MSM reporting of matters islamic; eg., when members of the RoP have done some form of good deed, they are referred to as muslims. However, when the opposite occurs they are referred to as ‘Asians’ as in Rotherham.

          • SunnyD

            I remember it – and wish we didn’t have to mine YouTube for such material. Ideally, a modern day Wogan/Parkinson figure with mass appeal would host a chat show with a “no fear” attitude on which certain cretinous individuals would be exposed for the oxygen thieves they truly are.

        • Hybird

          I am still waiting for someone to rip into Mehdi Hasan over his blatant lies after Lee Rigby was murdered. He took a verse from the Koran (5:32) which justified the murder, removed the “naughty bit” and in a DT article (no comments, of course) presented it as proof that Islam is against killing. He, of course, somehow forgot to mention the very next verse (5:33) which not only sanctions such murders but also justifies crucifixion and the lopping off of hands and feet. He even repeated the deception on Question Time last year and got away with it again. I was totally amazed that David Starkey didn’t nail him.

          • Shazza

            If you remember that dhimmi Clegg post the Lee Rigby tragedy did exactly the same with that verse …. the problem is that no-one has the cojones to challenge them and state the actual full verse – oh I forget, it would be ‘out of context’ or ‘islamofauxbia’.

          • Hybird

            I think Clegg probably got it from Mehdi Hasan’s article but you are right – he was allowed to get clean away with it. Incredible to think that our Deputy Prime Minister stood before the cameras and spouted deceitful Islamic propaganda without one journalist or politician saying a dickie bird about it.

  • zanzamander

    What Mr Jenkins is saying might me true, were these terrorist acts just random, motiveless acts of crazy men high on durgs. Then we could all just walk around as if nothing has happened and soldier on.

    The fact is that these terrorists have a goal, a motive, an aim and they are clear in their heads what they want, how they’ll get it and what they have to do. They have an ideological aim.

    I’d say that yes, our politicans and media are helping terrorists win. But not for the same reasons as Mr Jenkins puts it. Let me explain. If the aim of these Islamists is to Islamasise the West, then, on evidence, they’re getting their way. Every time there is a terrorist attack, politicians and media all come out in praise of Islam and grant concessions to the followers of Mohammad which they wouldn’t have got had these terrorists not demanded them for the Ummah by their acts of violence..

    Islamist terrorists are doing the job for the so called peaceful followers.

    Want to stop Islamic terror? Then go after their ideology, go after the brutal scriptures within the theology of Islam, challenge them on their beliefs, shut down madrassas and other Islamic institutions that is curning out jihadis in their thousands on our own soil – all the while being supported by the politicians and the media.

    Islamic terrorism is winning and will eat people like Mr Jenkins alive – and he (and they) will still not know what hit him (them).

    • fundamentallyflawed

      The reason they do not go after the ideology is that they are fully aware that there are millions of “peaceful” Muslims among us who would turn out to be not so peaceful after all. A vicious circle of their own making

      • Hybird

        And one – without any relevant questions asked about the appalling ideology he clings to – is shortly going to become the mayor of our capital city.

        • fundamentallyflawed

          Mayor of our capital city OR ELSE… as one of his aides put recently…

  • zanzamander

    Shutting down just one madrassa or a mosque will protect us more than a hundred tanks deployed on our streets ever will.

    • Picquet

      And shutting down the lot of them would do an immense amount of good.

      • justejudexultionis

        We must adopt the Japanese system.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          It is estimated that the Muslim population in Japan is around 0.095% of the total population.
          There are an estimated 30 to 40 mosques in Japan.
          There are somewhere between 60,000 to 125,000 Muslims in
          Japan.
          Don’t skimp on your basic research, just.
          Jack, the Japan Alps Brit
          33 years and counting.

  • Blindsideflanker

    Jeremy Paxman took a film crew to a staged IRA ‘military salute’ to one of their bombers who managed to blow himself up with his own bomb. Soon after that Mrs T’s government attempted to close off the IRA’s access to the broadcast media , which the media took great relish in circumventing by dubbing the words of IRA terrorists.

    I have always wondered if Jeremy Paxman views that broadcast as one of the high points of his career, or one of the low points.

  • stuartMilan

    the tough response is to plead????

  • Picquet

    Showing gritty resolve to ignore the terrorists’ efforts can be difficult when your legs and balls are in another county.

  • Frank

    Good article, but as you point out we have politicians who are utterly gormless.
    Secondly the days of “pleading with Muslim leaders” are arguably over, again our gormless politicians don’t “get” this.
    Finally our politicians don’t take action against the nation states supporting the various islamic terrorist groups. As always, delaying action usually only adds to the bill and complexity!

  • The_Missing_Think

    “There is nothing a government in a remotely free country can do to stop a suicide bomber in a crowded space.

    As a weapon, he has the precision of a drone missile. The only preventive task open to the police and security service is to penetrate and destroy a terrorist cell in advance.”
    _____

    No mate, look the word ‘borders’ up, you thick tw@t.

    • Cyril Sneer

      I was about to write a similiar response… in fact I will.

      • The_Missing_Think

        Look how sick ‘the West’ is:

        “Somalian migrant “Muhammed” received just 180 hours (22 days) of community service last year after he was prosecuted for attacking and brutally raping a 12 year old girl. Aged 18 at the time of his conviction, now the rapist’s friends and family are exacting revenge upon his victim, prolonging her trauma.”

        “The most serious attack took place on March 24, when she was discovered at a bus stop by the brothers. One of them pushed her down, while the other punched her in the mouth. Upon seeing the mother of the boys approaching, Ida told the paper: “I thought she would stop them. But she kicked me”.”

        http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/07/friends-family-rapist-muhammed-continue-abuse-12-year-old-victim/
        _____

        Her deranged mutant mother, is a perfect example of the illness.

  • SunnyD

    I don’t fear being ethnically cleansed, and don’t overly care what creed any of the next people are, that is assuming they’re not just more faithless amoral a$$holes (who can come in every skin colour), but I do care about my way of life. My life and my enjoyment of my life.
    Life in the UK has changed an awful lot in the 40 years I’ve been alive and will no doubt continue to do so over the next 40. I fully expect humanity to have achieved AGI (Artificial General Intelligence) by the time I’m 90, which hopefully will lead very quickly to Artificial Super Intelligence and potentially immortality for mankind. In short, I’m a fan of progress but can’t ignore Islam’s propensity for more traditional values seems to be at odds with the direction Western Civilisation is heading.

    Fairness, equality, freedom for all – these are some of the values we hold dear and have fought wars to protect. So remind me again, exactly HOW does TRUE Islam integrate itself into a society such as ours? I don’t have the whole answer myself, but I know a guy who might: he’s my mate B***r Zaman and although we see each other less often these days – we get along fine. We haven’t always, and there’ll no doubt be future hiccups, but generally, my Catholic and his Muslim upbringings haven’t caused any frictions whatsoever and neither of us see the other as a threat to our way of life. His mum is a little more old school, but she still has a sense of humour (like everybody else) I can appreciate and even if I do struggle sometimes with her accent (I get confused sometimes when I can’t ‘read’ the inflection in one’s voice) we all quite happily coexist on this spinning ball of rock flying through space at 67,000 mph and there are plenty of others who can tell a similar tale about similar people from all different faiths, races – creeds and faces.

    It’s therefore sensible to suggest that, while we can’t tell which newcomers intend to make the UK their home and which ones pose no threat to Western Civilisation’s pipe dreams (in addition to the inevitable colonisation of space and humanity’s other unfulfilled endeavours) we need to have suitable off shore refugee processing facilities in place. My mate B***r agrees. His sister Shabeena agrees. Most normal British people would agree that being sensible about who you admit to the safety of your country is the sane option. Any attempts to imply that saying such things over the airwaves or in cyberspace simply plays to the terrorists’ agenda are contemptible, deeply unpatriotic and frankly worrying (especially if the accusations are being laid by elements of the press/media or those within the Westminster bubble).

    • Shazza

      I hate to burst your bubble but we are rapidly running out of time to protect our civilisation which is committed to the advance of scientific knowledge in order to both understand and improve life for all on planet Earth.

      The ideology which we are not allowed to criticise is committed to returning all people on this planet to the ‘pure’ way of life by way of ‘submission’ which will effectively deliver their version of ‘peace’. In reality, our ally Saudi Arabia and our so called enemy, ISIS both practise the same version of their ideological law and life for the average woman/homosexual etc. is the same in both ‘countries’. SA is exporting their brand of the RoP worldwide, refuses to accept any muslim ‘refugees’ but encourages hijrah into Europe/Western countries and offers to pay for mosques in those countries.

      Now. Demographics. The official figure for the muslim population in this country is circa 5% and historic evidence shows that this doubles every decade which will deliver a 40% demograph by 2045. This does not take into account further ‘refugees’ or the accelerating emigration of indigenous British people who have seen the writing on the wall and have fled to pastures greener. In France, the muslim demograph is 10% and 25% of their teenagers are muslim.

      Lebanon used to be a Christian country, look at their history and that of the islamic countries which used to be Christian. In terms of our further scientific advances, ask yourself the question – ‘what islamic country has produced any Nobel prize winners in the scientific/medical categories?’ Look at the nations that have produced people who contributed to our advanced civilisation – says it all. Before you mention the so called islamic contributions to maths, etc. – all they did was have the ability to understand ancient Greek and translate the works of Pythagoras, Euclid etc. It is time we all woke up and smelt the coffee.

      • SunnyD

        no need to preach to the converted, I know that fundamental Islam would like nothing more than to live in yesteryear and as such, has contributed precious little to the advancement of science and civilisation. And we can’t allow our way of life to be overrun by one which demands the surrender of women’s rights. However, I refuse to accept that this means we have to shut the doors on refugees and migrants completely. A sensible compromise needs to be reached. One which doesn’t automatically involve kowtowing to one particular section of society. And you’re right again, not enough people have actually woken up, let alone smelt the coffee brewing.

        • Shazza

          I have to disagree with you on two points – firstly, I believe Erdogan and from all the evidence I have seen, there is no such thing as moderate islam, just islam. Secondly, even without any more ‘refugees’ (and the infrastructure in this country just cannot cope with any more immigrants) the demographics dictate that within 30/40 years (within your lifetime) the UK will be an islamic state.

          I sincerely hope I am wrong but there is no reason to justify any optimism – ask your friend where his loyalties lie, to his ideology or to this country?

        • Dacorum

          Shazza is right – there is no such thing as moderate Islam, just Islam. So called “moderates” are either being misleading or they are not true believers and followers of the prophet.

          • SunnyD

            the ones who don’t follow Mo’s way to the letter are of little concern to me – so called moderates (I was an armchair catholic myself for a good number of years) don’t worry me unduly. whereas if they’re being deliberately misleading, that verges on treason (in my view) and I believe we should exercise the letter of the law against those who would collaborate with forces that are anathema to our way of life. I would hope that we are all in agreement with that

          • Dacorum

            The problem is Islam itself. It appears to me that say any Sunni Muslim is a potential fellow traveller or supporter of terrorism if they follow the teachings of their prophet, as ISIS and other extremists clearly set out to do.
            Muslims sects that reject jihad and are tolerant of other religions like the Ahmadis are regarded by Sunnis as heretics. Mr Asad Khan the Glasgow shopkeeper was an Ahmadi and was murdered by a Muslim because “he disrespected their prophet”.
            Any religion with a philosophy like that of the man who murdered Asad Khan is dangerous and is incompatible with other views and religions and should not therefore have a place in the western world.

          • Shazza

            The bottom line is that it is not a religion. Islam is an authoritative, totalitarian, utterly ruthless ideology whose central aim is to bring the world’s population under its rule – no objection to this in any form, is to be tolerated.

            Islam is an ideology which masquerades as a religion and until this is acknowledged by our quisling leaders, it will continue its relentless march towards total worldwide domination.

        • David

          Will you please drop that word “completely”? Nobody is saying that there should be no more people allowed in under any circumstances. What many want is the power to regulate (a) How many people should be allowed into the country and (b) Who should be allowed in.
          This used to be a simple matter before the open borders madness took over.

          • SunnyD

            But if I went in and edited out the word “completely”, it would render your comment unintelligible ;^) (don’t mind my weird sense of humour)
            You are of course correct – and for the record, I quite favour something like Australia’s “Pacific Solution”

    • StormInaDcup

      Don’t you mean his sister “S******a”?

      • SunnyD

        sorry, yes – a ha

    • Roger Mole

      You don’t mind being ethnically cleansed? Freak…

      • SunnyD

        where did I say that?

  • Tamerlane

    Nah, I’m not buying this, you’re conflating different issues. Absolutely the American reaction to 9/11 was ill conceived, reactionary, riddled with inconsistencies, poorly executed, diabolically planned etc etc etc ad nauseam. It created the power vacuum that threw Iran against Saudi Arabia in a game that has destabilised the entire middle east from Tripoli to Damascus and so on. ISIS is a product of that, it isn’t a product of strong security measures at Heathrow. It’s a chicken v egg question and we know which came first.

  • Cyril Sneer

    “There is nothing a government in a remotely free country can do to stop a suicide bomber in a crowded space.”

    Oh there is, there is plenty a government can do. One example would be to not invite these terrorists here in the first place. It’s much harder for a terrorist to commit an attack on European soil if he isn’t actually on European soil.

    • Blindsideflanker

      They haven’t figured out why Japan hasn’t had a Muslim suicide bomber.

      • Shazza

        Yup. It ain’t rocket science.

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Nice, neutral Buddhist country anyone?
        All we have to worry about is Krazy Kim and his nukes.

    • Hippograd

      Only in reality. And liberal fantasy is the important thing, not reality.

    • victor67

      Stopping arms deals with the House of Saud my help.

  • David Prentice

    When Tony Blair sent tanks to Heathrow in 2002 ‘as a deterrent’ he won headlines, but cost the tourist industry 15 per cent in cancelled foreign bookings.

    He really was/is a first-grade pri*k.

  • Hippograd

    There is nothing a government in a remotely free country can do to stop a suicide bomber in a crowded space.

    Yes. Israel was suffering lots of suicide bombers and still is, isn’t it? I mean, the last one was as recently as 2008. Somehow Israel has managed to combine security and open borders to enrichment by the Third World.

    • Mow_the_Grass

      Israel came ‘pre-enriched’.
      Arabs (muslim and christian) constitute 20% of the pop of Israel.
      UK/Europe muslim pop approx 5/8%.
      Need to up your security game more so in euroland.

      • Hippograd

        Israel came ‘pre-enriched’.

        Surely not. The Jewish community are the world’s greatest champions of minority rights and of open borders for the world’s huddled masses, yearning to breathe free. There MUST be big Pakistani, Moroccan, Somali and Jamaican communities in Israel, contributing massively to Israeli culture and to Israel’s booming high-tech sector.

        So the question is: How is Israel able to assimilate (or at least nullify) its Pakistanis, Moroccans et al when Europe isn’t?

        • Mow_the_Grass

          Israel has people from every race group – from black all the way through to pinky/white like yourself.
          Go deal with it.

          • Hippograd

            Israel has people from every race group – from black all the way through to pinky/white like yourself.

            Yes, that’s what I deduced a priori: Israel MUST have big Somali and Jamaican communities, seeing as how the Jewish community are such passionate supporters of minority rights and open borders.

            So I was wondering: seeing as how the Jewish community are famous for their skill with math, could you give me some percentages on the number of blacks in Israel’s vibrant rainbow population? And the number of blacks, Christians and Muslims granted asylum in Israel since 1948?

            Go deal with it.

            Israel is run by people who make the welfare of Jews their first priority. That’s a good thing. I wish the UK had the equivalent of Benyamin Netanyahu as its prime minister.

          • Mow_the_Grass

            Listen ‘pal/ette’ – not your friendly research/statistics store.
            For that you have google – go look it up.
            Not really interested in your thinly veiled jewhate either.
            Suggest you write your local village council outlining your concerns with what appears to be any people of colour and hopefully they can solve your problem.
            Just as an aside the article in question refers specifically to a type of terror perpetrated by a particular group of people.
            This has sweet fanny apples to do with race ie Muslims range in colour from black to pinky/white (just as Christians do) – and everything to do with a religious ideology.
            Suggest you focus your mind (such as it is) – on the clear and present danger now in the towns/cities of euro/britland.
            Thats the real threat here ‘pal/ette’.

          • Hippograd

            Not really interested in your thinly veiled jewhate either.

            Wishing the UK had a mensch like Netanyahu as PM is “jewhate”, already?

            Suggest you write your local village council outlining your concerns with what appears to be any people of colour and hopefully they can solve your problem.

            Come on: how can anyone have concerns with People of Colour? Except racists, of course.

            AFRICAN MIGRANT RAPES 83-YEAR-OLD WOMAN IN SOUTH TEL AVIV

            If you want to understand why traditionally immigrant friendly Israel is losing its patience with African migrants, cases like these are the answer. South Tel Aviv has been turned into a war zone overflowing with African migrants backed by social services and local leftist NGOs who want them to stay permanently. And the migrants come out of conflict zones, many of them are criminals or have lost all norms of social behaviors due to growing up in conflict zones.

            http://www.frontpagemag.com/point/171673/african-migrant-rapes-83-year-old-woman-south-tel-daniel-greenfield

            Suggest you focus your mind (such as it is) – on the clear and present danger now in the towns/cities of euro/britland.

            I am focusing my goyishe kop on it. That’s why I’m wondering how Israel manages to be secure when it lets in so many Third World folk every year. This page seems to have missed a few zeros:

            Israeli approved the asylum claims of only about 200 refugees since it signed the Refugee Convention almost 60 years ago.

            http://hotline.org.il/en/refugees-and-asylum-seekers-en/%E2%80%8Fisraels-asylum-system/

          • Mow_the_Grass

            Why should Israel the only Jewish state in the region (and world) – have to absorb more non Jewish people most of them Muslim – and who have in many cases crossed over other Muslim countries to get to Israel.
            This is not a racial issue – this is a religious demographic issue.
            UK has a Muslim pop of approx 5% – as mentioned already Israel has an Arab pop predominately Muslim of 20%.
            So who in fact has the bigger problem in terms of religious demography?

          • Hippograd

            Why should Israel the only Jewish state in the region (and world) – have to absorb more non Jewish people most of them Muslim – and who have in many cases crossed over other Muslim countries to get to Israel.

            It shouldn’t. Israel is a Jewish state and should take any necessary steps to remain so. But apparently it’s hateful and evil for any Euro-majority state to think the same. Ireland is the only Irish state in the world, but Alan Shatter has done his best to import lots of kushim and other enrichers. And guess which country Shatter has a right of return to?

            UK has a Muslim pop of approx 5% – as mentioned already Israel has an Arab pop predominately Muslim of 20%.

            So who in fact has the bigger problem in terms of religious demography?

            In fact, it’s the UK, because Israel doesn’t grant privileges to its Muslims, doesn’t turn a blind eye to their misbehaviour and doesn’t have Christians in positions of power telling Jews how hateful they are for wanting Israel to stay Jewish. I assume you’ve heard about the enrichment in Rotherham and lots of other places. When people were trying to point out that Pakistani Muslims were dominating crimes like that, despite being a small minority of the country, the Deputy Children’s Commissioner was saying it was “dangerous” to single out any group in particular. That commissioner’s name was Sue Berelowitz. And when you look at the composition of the Supreme Court in the US, I don’t think free speech is in safe hands.

          • Mow_the_Grass

            Yep i know its them jooos.
            Even though they represent less than 2% of the worlds pop i can’t be responsible for every single one of then.
            Some are crazed leftists – just as your Jeremy Corbyn and his bunch of lunatics – many Christians in his inner circle.
            Now why don’t you tackle him and his close cohorts on their religious basis.
            Or are there just too many Christians for it to become an issue.
            Much easier to level it at them jooooos.
            Only a few – and they’re easily identifiable by the names.
            You ‘pal/ette’ have an unhealthy obsession which from experience is usually borne out of failure in a personal capacity ie business/job/spouse etc etc (pick one of many)
            Can’t help you – but i know that your country has free medical care so am confident that such help is close at hand.
            As regards the US supreme court – i believe they recently lost one of their number – much respected older gent with an Italian surname – must have been Catholic.
            LOL.

          • Hippograd

            Some tin-foil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorists say this: “There are far more Muslims and blacks than Jews in the world, but Jews win far more Nobel prizes. In fact, Muslims and blacks barely win any Nobel prizes at all, except for wet things like Peace and Literature.”

            But that’s obviously crazy. How can such a small group (Jews) be much more important and influential than much larger groups (Muslims and blacks)?

            You ‘pal/ette’ have an unhealthy obsession which from experience is usually borne out of failure in a personal capacity ie business/job/spouse etc etc (pick one of many)

            Why pick one? I’m unhealthily obsessed with Muslims too, which must mean that they’re fine people who are good for every country that hosts them.

            Even though they represent less than 2% of the worlds pop i can’t be responsible for every single one of then.

            It would be good if, like Larry Auster (ethnically Jewish) you admitted that your group is disproportionately influential in crazy ways. Except in Israel, where sanity prevails and you put up fences to keep kushim and Muslims out, rather than welcoming them in, giving them money to have lots of children and arresting people who point out that they are not good for advanced democracies.

            As regards the US supreme court – i believe they recently lost one of their number – much respected older gent with an Italian surname – must have been Catholic.

            Yes. And Obongo has picked another white male to replace him. Guess what ethnicity the white is and how much he supports the First Amendment.

          • Mow_the_Grass

            Yeah I know – them joooooos control everything.
            Not only Hollywood/banking/media – but some have said that they are also able to reverse the flow of the worlds currents/turn day into night and that they make matzoh with the blood of Christians.
            They also say the Holocaust is made up and never happened.
            As stated before – not responsible for every Jew on the planet – just as i also don’t hold every Christian responsible for the almost annihilation of my peoples .
            By your logic i should

          • Hippograd

            Yeah I know – them joooooos control everything.

            I don’t believe that. But they do have huge amounts of power and influence and they often don’t use it in good ways. Except in Israel, where their famous love of kushim disappears and they put up big fences to keep the kushim out. I agree with that: kushim are bad for civilized nations.

            Not only Hollywood/banking/media – but some have said that they are also able to reverse the flow of the worlds currents/turn day into night and that they make matzoh with the blood of Christians.

            Do the crazy claims make the sane claims disappear? What ethnicity have the last three heads of the US Federal bank been? How many Protestants are on the US Supreme Court?

            As stated before – not responsible for every Jew on the planet – just as i also don’t hold every Christian responsible for the almost annihilation of my peoples .

            I’ve seen this claim before and it’s always puzzled me. Christians had complete military dominance for long stretches of time over the Jewish community, so how did the Jewish community survive in Christian areas? I know they were expelled again and again for no reason, but expulsion isn’t the same as annihilation.

          • Mow_the_Grass

            1. Kushim – meaning: Ethiopians as a race – and not as a colour. Many Ethiopians live in Israel.
            2.Not interested in ethnicity Fed heads are/were – other tan they were probably selected ‘coz they pretty dam (n) smart,
            Also i make no distinction between the branches of Christianity – just all Christians.
            3. Annihilation circa 39/45 – Na@is were Christian.
            Certainly weren’t Jews – thats for g’dam sure.
            Now lets cut the semantics – points are clear as day.

          • Hippograd

            1. Kushim – meaning: Ethiopians as a race – and not as a colour. Many Ethiopians live in Israel.

            I know, and they complain bitterly about racism. I think they have lower average IQs and, like blacks in general, a higher tendency to commit crime. Israel would be better off if it had no blacks.

            Not interested in ethnicity Fed heads are/were – other tan they were probably selected ‘coz they pretty dam (n) smart,

            Yes, Bernie Madoff and Robert Maxwell were very smart men. But when you look at the banking world, does the word “smart” come to mind much? “Greedy” and “short-sighted” sound better to me. And I’m certain the Israel would not put Muslims in charge of its banking system, no matter how smart they were. (I agree that Islam doesn’t produce many smart people.)

            Na@is were Christian.

            No, they were pagans. Communist torturers, executioners and Gulag guards didn’t tend to be Christian either.

  • Polly Radical

    Interesting article – if you continue to believe that the western elites and the barbarians are on opposite sides. That’s a big “if.”

  • WalterSEllis

    Curious to know, Simon, how you think the Americans should have played 9/11. Maybe a news-in-brief on page one, continued page 94.

    • victor67

      Regard it as a crime, not an act of war. The whole war on terror has cost trillions and radicalized millions more. Simple isn’t it.

  • zanzamander

    Fighting Islamic terrorists is another thing. How is Mr Jenkins proposing we should respond to the gradual Islamisation of our society? Or doesn’t he think that such a thing exists, or that it is just a figment of a racist bigoted Islamophobe’s imagination?

    We have a growing parallel society exclusively for the followers of Mohammad in this country and the wider West world now – a society based on religious Islamic traditions and diktats – Sharia. Germany is now proposing gender segregated rail carriages. Swedish law makers are advising non-Muslim women to “dress appropriately”. Islamic anti-semitism is rampant and tolerated. In our own cities, gays and non-Muslims are threatened unless they vacate “Muslim areas”. FGM is tolerated, albeit unofficially. Mass child rapes, crimes and drug abuse by mainly Muslim men (and women) are swept under the carpet so as not to attract the ire of the followers.

    When will the politicians, media and the left realise that the very thing they’re defending will one day be an end of them?

    • victor67

      I live in West London with a large South Asian population and I don’t see any “Islamisation” of my neighbourhood. Maybe its all in your head and you’ve been reading too much Douglas Murray or going on EDL marches.

      • will91

        I live in West Yorkshire. Here many communities have gone beyond the “multi-culti-model” and are now not very diverse at all.

        The 7/7 perpetrators hailed from two such communities. Perhaps you could pay a visit?

      • Roger Mole

        You do see it, you just don’t want to acknowledge it…

      • JohnnyNorfolk

        Try Bradford.

    • Bob339

      If it gets too much they can always go home to Israel.

      • Mow_the_Grass

        But the Law of Return doesn’t apply to catholics and anglicans.
        And Corbyn loves his good friends Hamas so he would rather go to Gaza.
        Who else you got in mind specifically?

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Would that be the law of diminishing returns?

  • justejudexultionis

    ‘are like whirling dervishes, dancing to terrorism’s beat’ —

    Poor choice of analogy by Simon Jenkins. The Sufi orders, including the whirling dervishes, are one of the few sections of Islam that do not employ the rhetoric of violence, murder and global domination.

    But Jenkins avoids the real issue, which is the demographic collapse of western European countries, which makes an Islamic takeover within the next 100-150 years all but inevitable.

    • TheJustCity

      Indeed. The ‘real voice of Islam’ is that which its majority and mainstream of adherents assert it to be. This discomfiting and inconvenient absolute is what requires examination under a steady eye. The quietist, inclusive, humanist sects like the Ahmadis and Sufis are not relevant. Under such examination it will be revealed that mainstream Islam has no compatiblity with Western society. That’s not to say that no Muslim is admissible, but we need clarity on percentiles of Muslims who are – and who are not. My view is that those Muslims of a liberal mindset do not exist on account of Islamic doctrine, they exist in spite of Islamic doctrine. Also that, in the mainstream, they are very probably in a minority.

      It is important to understand that the majority of Muslims are Islamists; this ensures their sympathies, if to a greater or lesser degree, are nevertheless congruent with the fundamentalist and what we would call the radical. Through the lens of western values, the norms of Islam are a radicalist doctrine. A doctrine for the radical. As Sam Harris states, the problem with Islamic fundamentalism is the fundamentals of Islam. The problem of the jihadist, the terrorist. I believe while it is possible that a majority of the liberal-minded can be made to be a reality, part of the process of that long term project – and the short-term one of protection of western societies, is that as advocated by Hitchens C. inter alia: ‘a hugely enlarged quota for qualified Indian immigrants and a reduction in quotas from Pakistan and other nations where fundamentalism dominates and an end to ‘one-way multiculturalism’ and to the cultural masochism that goes with it’.

  • justejudexultionis

    This article is yet another MSM dhimmi article that refuses to identify Islam as the problem and that seeks to blame the West for the obvious internal moral failings of Islamic culture.

  • Bob339

    Muslims hate us. If they weaken in this they are punished. The police claim that they defeat numerous terror acts each year.
    Why then, do we continue to allow them, a] to come into Britain and b] to remain here after rapes, murders and God knows what other crimes? Not to mention the benefit sponging that supports over 3 million Muslims who have never worked.

  • plainsdrifter

    As a journalist, SJ ought to know that what he advocates is cloud cuckoo.

    • Joe Long

      Trots out the same stuff all the time, formulaic and routine now, doesn’t even need to think about it; shifts the text around a bit, emails it off and Hey Presto! another bank transfer from the Guardian etc materialises. Nice work if you can get it, and are sufficiently unprincipled to keep playing the don’t scare the horses game.

      • ballsmonkey

        Bingo. Have read this article by SJ at least twice before. He’s been doing this for years and is still getting away with it.

        • Joe Long

          He’s a total buffoon

  • TheJustCity

    Conrad’s line is apposite but in a context to that which the Guardian flatus-trumpet Jenkins (amongst a whole malodorous horn section from that quarter), would have you accept. The police are from the same basket as the terrorist inasmuch as they prevent you from naming the enemies of western civilisation; they prevent you from the necessary free discussion of the enemy; and they prevent you asking of those who dress in the prescribed attire of the enemy, whether they have any sympathy with or in fact are, the enemy.

  • Alltaxationistheft

    I don’t know why our secret service bother to monitor individual Islamists. Just listened to a BBC interview on R 4. A couple of directors & producers from the National Theatre were giving forth on their new play. It will show the anguish of Muslim mothers at the radicalisation of their children. These people have such a thorough knowledge of the UK Muslim community that they could state unequivocally that not a single UK mosque was involved in radicalisation ! This confidence of course went unchallenged by the BBC luvvie interviewer . They went on to say that the main reason given was alienation of young Muslims in the West ,with the implication that ,people struggling to prosper in a society who’s values they reject,would naturally turn to a bit of mass murder

    • hobspawn

      Yes, the BBC is broadcasting these apologies for murder every day. It is treason. After the Belgian attacks they interrupted an informed Belgian who was about to blame Islam and switched to a treacherous liar who blamed the attacks on “inequality”. Don’t pay the license fee.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Yep don’t pay the licence fee.

    • Tom M

      I listened to that and have the same opinion. Was it not followed by a plea from some organisation asking for £32 to give an African child a birth certificate? Noble objective I thought although I could be forgiven for thinking I’ve paid for this already. The original request must be behind the sofa of the International Development Secretary I thought whilst fuming at the BBC.

  • enoch arden

    Let’s be serious: there is no conceivable way to protect the population of a big city from suicide bombing of religious fanatics if there are thousands of them living among us.

    It is instructive to look in the history of fighting religious conspiracy in Britain. Walsingham didn’t watch the public enemies waiting until they organise a plot. He acted aggressively. His agents were those who organised plots, thereby attracting hundreds of potential enemies which were then arrested and executed in a way that impressed all the sympathisers. The most spectacular of his actions was the plot and eventual execution of Mary.

  • Peter Richardson
    • victor67

      Judeo Christian civilization produced our allies committing war crimes like Fallujah , Haditha, US kill teams Afghanistan, Cast Lead , Protective Edge, Drones and given us Abu Graib and Guantanemo.
      The problem is our media don’t report them as a war crimes or atrocities
      .
      Even in the US you now have a highly militarized police force summarily executing African Americans for minor or no crimes
      If this was China or Russia we would be screaming human rights violations

      • will91

        Those involved in the Abu Graib scandal were tried, found guilty and sent to prison.

      • Hybird

        “Even in the US you now have a highly militarized police force summarily executing African Americans for minor or no crimes”

        They eat little black babies too. Barbecue them. It’s true, I tell you. And anyone who disagrees is a racist!

        • victor67

          White privilege rears its head

          • Reluctant Mlungu

            The only unearned privilege here is yours – enjoying the fruits of a safe, comfortable and prosperous society which you do not have the backbone or conviction to stand up for.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Do shut up with your racist crap.

            You do realise that in the US more whites are killed by blacks than blacks killed by whites?

            And that Police officers kill more whites than blacks?

            Your kind are all about formenting racial division.

          • victor67

            In the US race plays a more prominent role than the UK.

            African Americans do suffer disproportiantly at the hand of a finacialiized capitalist economy that creates obscene inequality

          • Cyril Sneer

            Obscene inequality where Asians do really well (better than whites) and Blacks don’t.

            Your narrative doesn’t add up and it never has.

            And it’s tiresome having to still deal with this BS lefty narrative.

          • Cyril Sneer
      • Stevie Mac

        Lots of white people are killed by the police too but it doesn’t make international headlines. Black Americans are killed at higher rates than white Americans but it matches their higher rates of violent crime. Just as Asian Americans have lower rates of violent crime and lower rates of being killed by police as they attract less police attention.

        • victor67

          In the US the prison system was privatised about 35 years ago which gave massive incentives for mass incarceration of African Americans,many for trivial drug related offences.
          This coincided with a draconian and punitive approach to criminal justice(3 strikes and your out remember) which black people faced the full force of. It also coincided with a a more militarized police more suitable for Fallujah than Chicago.
          Who championed these policies?
          Bill and Hillary Clinton.
          Contrast this to the leniency shown to the corporate criminals and Wall St bandits who crashed the world economy who the same politicians now want the poor to pay for through lack of jobs and Austerity.

          This my friend is why Bernie Sanders message strikes a chord.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Six months for dropping a candy wrapper in New York State.

  • D Cripps

    Calling it “crime” instead of “act of war” seems to be based in ignorance of jihadi intentions. In sharia-law rulings the word “jihad” is only used of waging war on non-Muslims, not for spiritual struggle. The supremacist doctrine of sharia-law mandates global Islamisation, by conversion or conquest (political/military); traditional sharia-law-supporting Muslims regard all non-Muslims lands as Dar al-Harb (a house of war) until ruled according to sharia-law. Individual and small-cell jihad are traditional Islamic forms of waging war on non-Muslims; the third traditional way is under order of a caliph or a caliph’s representative. War has been declared on us simply because the UK is not yet an Islamic state governed by sharia-law. Islamic supremacists regard non-Muslims as “the worst of creatures” regardless of what non-Muslims do, and according to their conception of Allah they are commanded to hate non-Muslims. Piling on accusations of further perceived wrongdoing by non-Muslims is just their way of trying to justify these hate-filled ordinances and perhaps savouring their supremacism even more, but they do not stop to question the sanctity of their hatred and enmity because that would be to question Islam as they conceive of it, and would make apostates them. Muhammad, whose religion spread largely by conquest and oppression, said “I am made victorious with terror”: it is a tactic of war.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Police investigate, arrest, charge, collect evidence, secure a conviction leading to a custodial sentence.
      Soldiers kill the enemy.
      Hint, hint.

  • zanzamander

    MCB has just released a statement on Ahmadi Muslim Asad Shah, a shopkeeper in Glasgow who was brutally stabbed and stamped to death outside his shop just hours after wishing his Christian customers a “Happy Easter”.

    Basically they’re saying that Mr Shah was not a Muslim and therefore MCB is not in a position to represent or be represented by the Ahmadi community.

    But this is the pertinent bit in their statement, I thought:
    “The MCB Constitution requires our affiliates to declare that Messenger Muhammad peace be upon him is the final prophet and whoever does not subscribe to that declaration cannot be eligible for
    affiliation with the MCB.”

    (via Breitbart)

    • Blindsideflanker

      So the peaceful sect of the RoP , that the media wetted themselves about , has now been disowned by the RoP.

      You have just got to laugh.

      • MC73

        Sadly the media largely ignores the peaceful sects and the liberals in Islam and only recognises the stone age peasantry.

        • Stevie Mac

          That peaceful sect is persecuted, as Mr Shah’s murder shows, and disowned, as the Muslim Council of Britain’s rejection of them shows. ‘Peasantry’ doesn’t imply power but there are lots of Islamists in leadership roles.

  • Freddythreepwood

    As a senior officer and long standing member of HMs forces, I was involved closely with the Falklands War and the war to liberate Kuwait. Many lessons were learned, and up there near the top of our list was: Never, ever, believe that the BBC is on our side.

    • Blindsideflanker

      The BBC made that abundantly clear when they barred any reporter from referring to our troops as ‘our’ troops.

  • will91

    Trump isn’t wrong.

    Belgium and France are literally disintegrating.

    Importing millions of young men from the most illiberal parts of the planet will utterly destroy many liberties enjoyed in France, Belgium, Sweden, Norway etc

    That’s not even a subject for debate. Women in Italy have been instructed not to go out at night unaccompanied, many swimming pools are now segregated in Sweden (some women even going as far as to form vigilante “groping guards” whilst swimming). Just two examples. All this amidst an epidemic of rapes, gropings and other sexual assaults carried out across dozens of European cities.

    • MC73

      It’s insane, isn’t it? They seem to believe that Sweden really is just a geographical concept and that whoever you bring in to Sweden cannot change it, but will be miraculously be transformed by its terroir.

  • Oli Norwell

    It seems to me there are only two potential ‘solutions’.

    Plan A) For the media as a whole to entirely change the way they report these attacks. To emphasise how small the likelihood is of getting caught up in terrorism, when compared to other risks such as car accidents. To sensibly report the issues and not give even the smallest hint of publicity to those perpetrating the attacks. Anything to reduce their ‘effectiveness’, like the article states, this ‘war on terrorism’ is exactly what the terrorists want.

    Sadly we know that the news channels and websites are gagging for eyeballs and are almost relieved when another big 24/7 story breaks that can get them a few million more pages views. So the chances of plan A being implemented are precisely zero.

    Plan B) is to use ‘Big Data’ to aggressively profile people, neighbourhoods, countries, groups, communities to ensure those who have in the past been responsible for terrorism get 100x more police focus before any attack takes place. This is of course extremely harsh on those who happen to fit a certain category but have no intention whatsoever of doing anything wrong. I believe Israeli airports do this kind of thing and it’s highly effective. If you match the criteria then you are getting extreme attention. It’s extremely controversial, but sadly probably the most effective option.

    I don’t see a Plan C that would be workable.

    • boiledcabbage

      ‘Plan C’ and D become workable when the visceral zeitgeist has radically altered, i.e. after ‘x’ innocent lives lost. Even five years ago the linkage of ‘islamist’ and ‘terrorism’ was somehow verboten. That has changed. Slowly the political perspective is changing. Geert Wilders et al are still avant-garde; their day will probably come.

  • thetrashheap

    The social contract that allows for liberal policing is being destroyed by immigration. There will be no option but more draconian policing because the threat of violence will be too much. We had liberal policing because society more or less decided to behave itself. Social homogeneity was a huge factor in that.

    It is highly predictable and probably a desired outcome by the globalist elite.

    • boiledcabbage

      Its likely the ‘global elite’ cannot plan beyond tomorrows’ luncheon. Chaos is now globalised, as is money, art and entertainment. Who expected that?

  • hobspawn

    “A genuinely ‘tough’ response to terror should be severely to downplay its impact. It bids us to calmly police the domestic soil in which terror takes shallow root. It pleads with Muslim leaders to look to their own, and with the media not to play terror’s game. It avoids the political machismo of soldiers and gunships. It does not curb liberties or wage wars.”

    Give a country as example.

  • Captain Dryland

    Yes, Thatcher’s approach to terrorism was so effective that Gerry Adams became an MP and Martin McGuinness was elevated to Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland

    • MC73

      Surely Thatcher had long left office when that happened?

      • thomas_paine2

        He means the whole Northern Ireland campaign finally turned out to be a waste of time, money and lives.

        • Kennie

          Of course it was a waste of time, money & lives. Has this not been the case for all UK’s so called “wars against terrorism”? We wasted time, money and lives also in Cypress, Aden, Kenya etc and at the end we packed up and the “terrorists” became the governments of those countries. Adams and McGuinness knew this and so do the new terrorists, ISIS & Al Qaeda.
          It is a little different now, in so much as we (UK) is not being undermined by USA as in previous terror conflicts, not since “terrorism” became real after 9/11.

          • thomas_paine2

            You entirely misunderstand my point about Northern Ireland, officially the terrorists haven’t won, Northern Ireland remains part of the UK as long as the majority want it to be. I meant, if it had been handled differently with more patience and tact from the beginning, the campaign would never have happened, instead Britain in it’s usual cack-handed manner sends in armed soldiers to sort it out because the politicians didn’t want to be bothered.

          • Kennie

            I wasn’t really replying to your post, as such, although I was agreeing that the NI campaign was a waste of time, money and especially, lives. My point was in the context of Blair’s eventual surrender to Adams & McGuinness, just as our surrenders to what we initially termed “terrorists” in those other campaigns.

            PS.edit: I don’t think it was because our politicians couldn’t be bothered. I think it is more to do with them being absolutely clueless and cowardly.

    • WFB56

      How can you hold Thatcher or her policies responsible for the work of Blair? Obviously, your comment is nonsense.

      • Captain Dryland

        The article praises Mrs Thatcher’s approach to IRA terrorism, as if ‘denying them the oxygen of publicity and the status of a political cause’ proved effective. It did not. McGuinness came right through the Thatcher era and is now Deputy First Minister for Northern Ireland: hardly the kind of man to be stopped in his tracks by a voice-over. In any case, we know that Thatcher approved negotiations with the IRA over the hunger strikes because she feared the political consequences (Telegraph, 26 Dec 2011). It follows that her position of refusing IRA terrorism ‘the status of a political cause’ was mere posturing, and an early example of the modern disease that imagines changing the name of something or suppressing talk of it can eliminate its power.

        It seems that Mrs Thatcher has always to be defended in these pages, but she did some stupid things that harmed Britain immensely.

  • Zhang Wei

    The West, including the once mighty Britain, are now powerless with regards to what is happening in the Middle East. It’s actually quite funny.

    • boiledcabbage

      Perhaps China can now control the region. They need the oil; the US is now self-sufficient.

    • Mary Ann

      Where do you live?

  • Zhang Wei

    For example. Cameron used the vote to extend Britain’s so called bombing campaign against ISIS in Syria as a domestic political exercise as the majority of the public wanted it, but the actual campaign so far has been pitiful and merely a piecemeal, symbolic exercise.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      And ISIS are starting to fragment and retreat.

      • Zhang Wei

        Thanks to the mighty Putin and Assad.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          Yes…and the Kurds and the banking restrictions and the US/UK airstrikes and the fact that extreme groups do tend to implode anyway…

          • Zhang Wei

            UK airstrikes have killed a mere 7 ISIS fighters since Benn’s much vaunted speech In parliament. Face it Britain is a bit part player here and will not have a seat at the final negotiating table.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Its about infrastructure – didn’t you understand that?

          • Cyril Sneer

            It’s all about 4 months of Russian intervention.

  • investigator

    Simon, you are a defeatist coward.
    We must attack the organization that breeds and nourishes these swine.
    Shut down the Madrassahs. Intern the mullahs, and only release them when they proclaim, in a televised ceremony, that Islam is just another religion amongst many, that any adherent is free to leave whenever he wants, that women have equal rights and are free to go about with their hair, arms and shoulders uncovered, that they renounce any attempt to set up Sharia law and they accept the established law of the land.
    In other words, knock the stuffing out of their separateness and opposition.
    Of course, they will be always free to leave.

  • Chamber Pot

    The media (MSM) are strumpets with tacky make up.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      And the right-wing extremist are fat slobs with tattoos.

      • Chamber Pot

        Exactly.

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  • Mary Ann

    I do think that our reaction to terror attacks does encourage more especially if we change our way of life because of it. Blaming all Muslims, and refugees also helps Daesh. They want us to hate Muslims.

    • Roger Mole

      The world has always hated muslims. What they want more than ever is our countries flooded full of them.

    • Tom M

      There comes a point in a conflict Mary when it becomes illogical to forensically analyse your opponents individually. You take a collective view of what they are, what they are doing and why.
      So far we have the luxury of allowing ourselves the indulgence of proclaiming not all Muslims are terrorists (as indeed they aren’t) but it will pass as events such as Paris recur when self preservation will take hold of some part of the rest of Society somewhere then it will all change.

      • James Chilton

        Self preservation will kick in at some point, but there’s still a lot of hand wringing to go through before we reach that desirable moment.

    • WTF

      So what tenets of wisdom have you got for us that will fix this problem ?
      Have these cowardly Islamic jihadists said they’ll stop killing us if we do something for them ?

      You’re always on here saying we shouldn’t do this or that but you never offer anything constructive !

  • Mr Grumpy

    Can somebody remind me what part was played in the military adventures of Bush/Blair by Belgium?

    • Mary Ann

      Daesh probably want us to stop taking refugees in Europe. More power to their elbows. Why else did they get a French citizen to go through Greece on a fake passport.

      • Cyril Sneer

        “Daesh probably want us to stop taking refugees in Europe”

        Errr… I don’t think so Mary, it’s the opposite to what you say.

    • thomas_paine2

      I said that immediately after the Brussels’ incidents : Belgium was nothing to with Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        More terrorism there because the local Muslim community feel under threat. In the UK it is different. For example the recent Pegida rally in the UK had more media than marchers. We are just a more rational society in the UK (although you might not think it from the twerps posting here).

        • thomas_paine2

          A few days after the Brussels incidents, on a BBC phone-in, a ridiculous woman said ‘we’ are responsible for terrorism for not making the effort t reach out to our Islamic immigrants as if it’s our place to not theirs.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            It is not the failure to reach out but rather the vilification from the trouble makers that is the problem. But don’t worry because:

            “Bees and wasps have caused as many deaths in the UK as terrorism in the past decade, an independent watchdog has found…. Five people per year are killed by bee or wasp stings, the report said, exactly the same amount, on average, of terrorist actions in the past decade.” (Huffington Post 28/06/2012)

          • thomas_paine2

            I was referring to her response to the Brussels incidents which the programme was specifically about, in other words, the so-called ‘indiginous’ people must bear responsibility for the terrorists wanting to carry out the bombing/shooting.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So one woman called in and said something you didn’t agree with and you are basing your whole argument around that. This is known by the technical term of “grasping at straws”.

          • thomas_paine2

            No, it’s just a little disturbing that there’s a ‘culture’ out there prepared openly to put forward that argument and be accepted, should, Heaven forbid, we get a major incident here.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Basing your whole argument on a single woman is know by the technical terms of “building a house without foundations” and “scraping the bottom of the barrel”.

          • thomas_paine2

            If I believed it to be one eccentric old biddy, I wouldn’t have wrote about it here but I was left with the impression there’s a culture out there that think it ; I even know of a Tory! MP who thinks it ; ‘We must reach out to the Moslem community’. Really, idiot? I thought the ones in Britain were already supposed to be part our community.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “If I believed it to be one eccentric old biddy, I wouldn’t have wrote
            about it here but I was left with the impression there’s a culture out
            there…” Impressions often turn out to be wrong when they are not based on evidence.

            “I even know of a Tory! MP who thinks…” Why don;t you post an attributed quote from said MP so I can check it?

            Wizard Rule 8: Just because you want something to be true that doesn’t mean it is.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “I was left with the impression there’s a culture out there”

            Wizard Rule 8: Just because you want something to be true that doesn’t mean it is.

  • logdon

    ‘A terrorist incident is not an act of war’.

    It is to the terrorist.

    It is to the victims.

    It is to the State in which it’s directed.

    It is in fact, war by other means. An asymetrical onslaught against civilians by barbaric people who, if we were truly and effectively interested, should not be in our lands.

    Rather a quisling political correctness has infested the establishment. Muslims notice and ramp up the threat and the link below informs us of the sad response.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/07/rotherham-panel-will-allow-muslims-to-control-policing-ahead-of-pegida-walk/

    • OmnipotentWizard

      All extreme movements (ISIS, Pegida BNP, etc) are made up of two types of people:

      Dupe: They really believe that Islam is evil/wonderful. These people tend to have low intelligence. They have low self-esteem and are susceptible to flattery from the second type of person. These are the footsoldiers who commit the violence and get themselves killed.

      Agent Provocateur: They know that Islam is just a religion like any other but they like to cause trouble because it makes them feel important. These people are intelligent but have a character flaw. They will sit at home while the others commit acts of violence.

      You are an Agent Provocateur.

      • logdon

        And you are sadly misguided.

        It’s both more complicated and and on another level more simple than your self deducted analysis.

        Try reading the history of Islam. There’s nothing new, it’s all there. You may learn something other than cod psychology you sweepingly attach to your opinion.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          So the best counter-argument you can manage is to tell me to read something. Mind if I try the same debating technique:

          “Why don’t you do a little research on how extreme organisations use Agent Provocateurs. Just google it.”

          Yes that is a good technique as it means I don’t actually have to go to the bother of refuting anything.

          • WTF

            Refute anything ? Come on, you can’t even prove anything here as you never back it up !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            What! I’m the one that produces attributed and dated quotes that can be checked from unbiased sources. Others just say “google it” or “try reading about…”…these people have weak arguments.

          • WTF

            As I said, your lame assertions have no link to the original sources so they can’t be verified.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I haven’t made any assertions in this thread. I’ve just pointed out the logdon’s assertions can’t be verified – so I guess using your rules we should call them “lame”.

          • WTF

            He didn’t make any specific assertions like you do that needed a link to verify. He said “Try reading the history of Islam” as a general point that one would hope might educate you but is highly unlikely.

      • Trailblazer10

        ISIS are equivalent to Pegida? You are seriously deranged.

  • thomas_paine2

    ‘Our politicians are helping the terrorists’? oh really, is that all?

  • Tom M

    “……..The obvious reaction to terror is not to be terrorised……”
    After the Paris atrocity I think that the supporters of the terrorists would have been very pleased when they saw how long Brussels was closed down. That must have ranked amongst their greatest successes.

    Presidents and Prime Ministers can set the security authorities off on some very public door-kicking and send the air force off to bomb a few villages in the desert but closing down a capital for a week or two is entirely different and cannot be done too often.

    • OmnipotentWizard

      The IRA were much more successful. Remember the Ring-of-Steel in London.

  • Dominic Stockford

    The bombs exploded and threats made at the time of the Investiture of Charles as Prince of Wales were not spoken of in the media. Their perpetrators were forgotten about. That much can work, if you have the courage. But unfortunately the media today wouldn’t play.

  • rbw152

    These so-called ‘robocops’ aren’t all bad. I once went up to one and asked him about the Heckler and Koch submachine gun he was carrying because my son and I were arguing about the exact model.

    Sure, walking up to him, with all his hardware and surly face was a little daunting but when I spoke to him a broad grin completely transformed his appearance and he was happy to discuss some of the technical details of the weapon, even showing me it’s ammo in a spare clip he had.

    I say ‘some’ of the details because when I got too detailed in my questioning he said he wasn’t at liberty to divulge such details – that would have to wait for Wikipedia when we got home. |

    Anyway, the point here is, he was a human being like you and me, enthusiastic about his job and a nice guy to boot. Frankly, I’d rather have men like him in the streets with guns than some jihadi nutter with an AK, wouldn’t you?

    Mys son was right by the way. It was an MP7, not an MP5.

    • NickG

      a spare clip he had.

      Spare magazine – most modern military firearms are fed by magazines, not clips.The old 303 Lee Enfield and No 4 rifle was fed from two five round clips, top loading the magazine from the two stripper clips.

      • rbw152

        I stand corrected.

        As an enthusiastic gun owner myself, and someone who has fired hundreds of rounds of .303 at Bisley (never did like the chap) with the ACF, I really should have known better!

        Not only that but I fear I posted this under the wrong article!

  • WFB56

    More proof that Cameron is the ‘heir to Blair’ in that spin and PR trumps thoughtful leadership or principled actions at every turn.

    • Blindsideflanker

      Unfortunately as we see from Cameron’s bungled response to his tax affairs, the thing he is supposed to be good at PR, he isn’t.

  • lightindesert

    I am afraid I disagree with many of the statements and assertions made in this article: Islamic terror cannot and shouldn’t be compared to other types of terror. Political gain is not the the main aim of Islamist. Killing, maiming and harming as many as they can of the infidel is their prime objective. They believe in terror is their main tool to victory, through striking fear in the hearts of those who oppose them. In this way every time politicians and the media do or avoid doing something for fear of offending or “radicalising” Muslims is seen as one of the fruits of their deed. Every concessions made to the cause of Islam is a direct encouragement to terrorise the infidel more.

    Two misconception are at the heart of Western inability to deal with Muslim Terrorism: drawing parallels between Islamist extremism and that of other religions, namely Christian extremism and categorising Muslim terrorist as “political cause” fighters. Western religious wars history, and feeling of guilt for colonial past and fascist & anti-Semitic tendencies contribute to this mindset. Likening Muslim terrorist to those of the IRA or ITA etc shows complete misreading of what Islam and use of terror by zealous Muslims is all about.

    Terror in Islam is a legitimate tool to subjugate others including opponents. This is how Muslim caliphs spread the faith, gained territories and ruled their people. This is in fact how Muslim societies are built: Saudis pride themselves of the low crime rate. Chopping hands sanctioned by Islam as punishment of stealing ( admittedly only if you are not stealing because of hunger!) is a proof of success of Islam’s main tool of governance , terror. Terror is also how the Muslim God deal with his people’s, how people deal with each other, even within the family. Honour killings and stoning. Chopping heads and killing apostates are part of the picture. Terror in Islam has no political purpose, it is an act of worship sanctioned in religious text.

    • NickG

      As is so often the case some of the comments are far better than the article.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        But not this one.

        • Zaba

          islam is difficult to defend these days……..

          • OmnipotentWizard

            A bit like all other religions then.

          • Zaba

            Aye, there’s the rub.
            You forgot to mention that islam is not a religion!

    • OmnipotentWizard

      “…drawing parallels between Islamist extremism and that of other religions, namely Christian extremism…” This one seems similar:

      “Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon’s 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.A British photographer present during the incident said that “People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians.” (Wikipedia)

      • lightindesert

        I am sure they were. And the episode you refer to is a dark chapter in Lebanese history . The Christian Lebanese phalangists are guilty of a heinous crime.

        Not sure, however, how this relates to our subject. As a Christian, as all Christians, I can easily condemn the terrible crime of the Christian Phalangists and say we condemn all such actions throughout history and all the killings and violence even if committed by prophets and vow will never obey a religious call to kill anybody. Can any Muslim say that?

        Did the phalangists carry their Bibles and chant prayers while committing their act? Did they claim this was to serve their religion? Did they say they killed those poor victims in Sabra and Shatilla because they were Muslims? Was their act inspired by Jesus life and actions or by his disciples? Did Christians anywhere in the World sympathise with them even in Lebanon itself amid a sectarian war? Do Lebanese Phalangists claim they are religious at all?

        I know many people are desperate to keep drawing this parallel but even the slightest examination of violence on all sides will quickly lead to the conclusion, in Islam it is different. Violence is an integral part of the religion, advocated and incited by it. Violence is the Muslim God’s main tool of handling his creation and is what he teaches his subjects to do. This is a far cry from Christianity whose main message is peace. To keep things simple just compare the lives of Jesus and all his disciples to that of Mohammad and his companions and the overall messages of each religion should be clear.

        • OmnipotentWizard

          “As a Christian, as all Christians, I can easily condemn the terrible crime…” All Christians? I’m sure the Lebanese ones would not.

          “Can any Muslim say that?” Just like Christian most Muslims can condemn crimes committed in the name of their religion. Like this one:

          “The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is also a Christian Naga nationalist Militant group operating in North India. The main aim of the organization is to establish a sovereign Christian state, “Nagalim” unifying all the areas inhabited by the Naga people in Northeast India and Burma.… The group reportedly indulges in kidnapping, extortion and other terrorist activities.NSCN is accused of carrying out the 1992–1993 ethnic cleansing of Kuki tribes in Manipur, said to have leave over 900 people dead.” (Wikipedia)

          “I know many people are desperate to keep drawing this parallel…” And they are striking as in this example:

          “Christian militia groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country. Other sources report incidents of Muslims being cannibalized. (Wikipedia)

          “Violence is an integral part of the religion,…” As you can see from above violence is an integral part of Christianity and has been ever since it was invented in the 2nd Century.

          “Violence is the Muslim God’s main tool of handling his creation…” Just because you say something that doesn’t make it true.

          “…Christianity whose main message is peace.” As in this part of the Bible which tells you what to do with non-believers:
          “And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.” (Chronicles 15:12-13)

          • lightindesert

            I was waiting for the quotes from the Old Testament to come and thank you for the information regarding Nagaland.

            The fact Christians refer to this part of the Bible as “Old”Testament should be telling. There is a “new” Testament Christianity brought to the World and it is this new message you should hold Christians to account for.

            Once again rather than take things verse by verse and talk about contexts and interpretations, there is a simple, straight forward, down to earth way that the average person, not holding a PHD in History or Theology will quickly relate to, to understand the difference between Islam and Christianity. Look at the lives of Jesus and his immediate disciples ( such as Peter and Luke and then Stephen and Paul who must have understood the message of Christianity well), look at their actions and the way they dealt with others and compare to Muhammad and his companions, particularly the ones he endorsed and favoured ( such as Khaled and Omar who must have behaved as Islam wanted them to). Read about the massacres and terror and try to find any thing ISIS is doing now that wasn’t done then.

            Make this comparison and don’t hide behind a line of discussion that will lead to no where. I am not talking about Christians and their actions. From the Roman excesses to the Inquisition to Sabra and Shatilla (and Nagaland and I am sure elsewhere in the past, present and future) Christians have behaved shamefully, but that was despite the peaceful message of Christianity. As can be seen from reading the New Testament and the life of Jesus. Muslims, on the other hand commit violence and atrocity as a direct result of the incitement of Islam for its followers to do just that. If you want me to recite the verses in the Koran which command the believers to do that, or to quote the number of killings and raids committed by the Muslim most holy and revered figures, I can do that.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “There is a “new” Testament Christianity brought to the World and it is
            this new message you should hold Christians to account for.” The key word in that statement is SHOULD. Just like Muslims should follow the Koran when it says:

            “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.” (Koran 109.6 The Disbelievers)

            It isn’t what Jesus did that matters it is what other do in his name and I’ve given you plenty of examples of people who do nasty things in the name of Christianity. The exactly parallel to ISIS in fact.

            “Christians have behaved shamefully,…” Sense at last. Religion has been used to justify lot of atrocities.

            “…Muslims, on the other hand commit violence and atrocity as a direct result of the incitement of Islam..” There certainly isn’t anything in the Koran. Some people mention other Islamic writing that some Luslim groups use which is an exact parallel to some Christian groups using the Old Testament.

          • lightindesert

            ..” There certainly isn’t anything in the Koran”.

            Really?! Here is a link to the Jihad verses in the Koran, all 164 of them:

            http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html#Fulltext

            But you are right in “other Islamic writing” and texts things get much uglier.

            “It isn’t what Jesus did that matters it is what other do in his name.”

            People can do evil in the name of love, loyalty, friendship, science, animal welfare, social justice or protecting the environment. We can’t blame these values and beliefs for such actions because none of them incites violence or evil doing. Islam does exactly that openly, directly and repeatedly, in the Koran and in “other Muslim writing”. Why is it so difficult to grasp this blindingly obvious fact?

            You can attack Christianity as you like but violence isn’t one of its shortcomings. You can apologise for Islam as you want, but lets not deny the obvious.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I’m hardly going to go to one of THOSE websites. Produce the quote yourself and I’ll check.

            “People can do evil in the name of love, loyalty, friendship, science,
            animal welfare, social justice or protecting the environment.” And as I’ve shown Christians (and Muslims) do this a lot.

            “We can’t blame these values and beliefs for such actions because none of them incites violence or evil doing.” Yes we can. As I’ve shown many Christian sects commit violence and use the Old Testament as justification. You have just got to look at the number of New World Creationists in a supposedly civilised country like the US to know the OT is still widely used.

            “Islam does exactly that openly, directly and repeatedly, in the Koran…” you quote one and I’ll check it.

            “…and in “other Muslim writing”” Similar to the Old Testament.

            “Why is it so difficult to grasp this blindingly obvious fact?” A bit of self-analysis on your part wouldn’t go amiss.

            “You can attack Christianity as you like but violence isn’t one of its shortcomings.” I’ve just given you multiple examples of where that is exactly one of its shortcomings.
            Wizard Rule 23: If you put your fingers in your ears and hum loudly enough you’ll never hear anything to challenge your prejudices.

            “You can apologise for Islam…” I have no intention of apologising for anything. I’m an Agnostic which allows me to be impartial.

          • lightindesert

            Not sure why you don’t want to go “those”websites. It is useful to be open minded.

            Nor you make sense when asserting we can blame ” love, loyalty, friendship, science, animal well-fare and social justice, for the violence committed in their name.”
            Perhaps this is your way to justify implicating Christianity and drawing the parallel with Islam. This will not work for most people. People’s evil actions cannot be blamed on a cause or ideology, unless this ideology incites them to do evil. In the case of Islam the incitement is overt and repetitive, and practical examples from the prophet and his companion are abundantly provided.

            Which verse you want me to quote ? Shall I start with the one directed against Christian and Jews( i.e the people of the book , dealing with whom Islam supposedly is at its kindest and worse is prescribed to everybody else). The infamous verse is called the verse of the sword:

            “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture – [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled. – Qur’an 9:29

            For the variation in interpretation please refer to:

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-Tawba_29

            Hopefully Wikipedia doesn’t belong to your category of ” those sites”

            Thank you for the advice regarding self-analysis. At present I am busy analysing some of the ignorance people seem to be armed to the teeth with when pontificating about Islam and Christianity.

            You have given examples of how people committed violence in the name of Christianity, which I never disputed. You are very eager to cite verses from the OT which describe or incite the people such verses were directed at to commit violence. Christians believe in the New Testament as a new way to relate to God and his creation. Thus the OT verses are not relevant to our discussion.

            This line of discussion, however, is convoluted and requires knowledge of religious history and text. Like Muslims we may end up talking about interpretation and mis-interpretation. This is possibly why you like it. The truth can be blurred somewhat and readers can get bored.

            This is why you run away from the challenge I now pose to you for the third time: the life and sermons of Jesus and his disciples provide a simple lesson on what Christanity is all about. Where is in there any evil or violence? And compare with the life of Mohammad and his companions and aren’t these filled with hate and evil and provide the model for the followers to emulate?

            Christianity, whether you believe in it or not, can not be accused of inciting violence no matter how one can spin history and people’s actions, it’s message is best exemplified by the life of Jesus Christ. Perhaps you should take a minute and refer to the few pages in the New Testament which portray the life of Jesus and you may realise how wrong you are. The link below may give a taster of what the New Testament teaches.

            https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205-7

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I’m hardly going to go to websites that have an agenda (unless that agenda is to be unbiased)..

            BTW: Islam considers Christians as being “People of the Book” and so your Koran verse is irrelevant. I bet the referenced websites don’t mention that.

            Here is a more honest assessment:

            “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.” (Koran 109.6 The Disbelievers)

            I will guess that isn’t quoted on the websites you reference.

          • Zaba

            islam has many secrets, abrogation amongst them…….

          • WTF

            Come off it, you never go to any web site and post a URL as that will expose your false assertions. You just post vacuous assertions, obsolete stats, ancient history all of it spun in your unique manner to try and avoid being held up to scrutiny.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            My quotes are dated and attributed and so can be seen to come from unbiased sources.

            However there are plenty of websites out there that will tell you that Hitler survived and lived in Argentina, MMR causes Autism, the royal family are lizards, the World is less than 6000 years old, there is a UFO in Area 51, Ricky Gervais is funny, David Kelly was murdered, the NWO are controlling the World, the McCann’s killed their daughter & The Duke of Edinburgh order Princess Di to be killed (maybe she found out he is a lizard).

            Maybe you believe that stuff as well?

          • Cyril Sneer

            You can always spot a lefty troll – they have more comments than upvotes.

            It truly must suck to be you.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Lefty – I hardly think so. I am a centre-right, rational agnostic.

            Upvotes from the typical poster on here are hardly desirable. I’m here because this is where the enemies of logic reside. My enemies are the four N’s: socialists (nonsensical), racists (nasty), environmentalists (naïve) and conspiracy theorists (nutty).

            My weapons are satire, irony, sarcasm and (attributable) facts.

          • WTF

            You’re lame assertions have no link to the original source hence they are worthless !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            worthless (adj) – a attributable fact that goes against WTF’s prejudices.

          • WTF

            Where’s are the links that back it ? Oh I forgot, your wizard brain can’t deal with simple tasks like copy and paste ! As I said, they have no link to the original source hence your assertions are worthless !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Now remember what happened when you did a quick search and just posted a link based on the headline because you thought the article supported your argument. You made a complete fool of yourself.

            I’m never that lazy. I find the section of the article that is relevant to the point and reproduce it with an attribution.

          • WTF

            On the contrary I showed that crime had risen in 2015 rather than your lies using a 2013 report. If you weren’t that lazy, you’d post the URL but we all know why you wont as you’ll get shot down in flames even quicker than you are already as they’ll be out of date just like the crime article you asserted to but failed to provide a link to.

            Most here know your a lazy POS who lamely asserts using historical articles without any relevance today and tries to spin it as current stats or facts. You’d have a bit of credibility if you stuck to recent facts & stats and provided links but we all know you wont do that as you’d shoot your own narrative leaving all of us ‘out of work’.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So is it that you’ve still not read the whole article you pasted a link to or do you suffer from the modern condition of “predudicium selectus ocular” – the ability to not see anything that contradicts your prejudices even when it is right in front of you?

          • WTF

            Open minded from Wizard is like expecting Islam to renounce violence, it ain’t going to happen.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Not sure why you don’t want to go “those”websites. It is useful to be open minded.” Which is exactly why you don’t go to THOSE websites. There is so much misinformation and no way of correcting it.

            “Perhaps this is your way to justify implicating Christianity and drawing the parallel with Islam.” The parallels are striking and obvious. I’ve aleady showed you what the Christian Naga and the Maronite Christians do in the name of their religion. And what about this lot:
            “Christian militia groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to fleethe country. Other sources report incidents of Muslims being cannibalized. (Wikipedia)

            “People’s evil actions cannot be blamed on a cause or ideology, unless this ideology incites them to do evil.” Like to Old Testament you mean?
            “And they entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and with all their soul, but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.” (Chronicles 15:12-13)

            “In the case of Islam the incitement is overt and repetitive,…” Like this example you mean?
            “You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.” (Koran 109.6 The Disbelievers)

            “Fight those who do not believe in Allah…” As people of the book the Christian are deemed to believe in Allah. Ooops

            How come there is an “m” in your wikipedia link. This doesn’t look like the “real” wikipedia. Ooops.

            I didn’t think Christians were that duplicitous?

          • WTF

            Lazy as every, can’t produce links yourself but expect others to !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Now you know what happened last time you produced a link without actually reading the article (which IS lazy) – you made a fool of yourself because the article contradicted the point you were trying to make.

            When you get a bit more experienced on here you will be less likely to make such mistakes.

          • WTF

            You’ll never be experienced on here Wizard/Leon as you don’t know how to post links. Time to take your meds I think !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Who is Leon? My only other online persona is George Badgerstoke and he runs a blog “The Wisdom of George Badgerstoke”. I don’t let him post here as he is too daft.

          • WTF

            He pops up every so often with some self persecution cr** and makes even less sense than you if tha’ts even possible, perhaps he’s some long lost relative of yours.

          • WTF

            You’re a total ahole as the New Testament was in fact a new version of the old testament but with all the hateful bits removed. When or if the Quran & Haddith can follow the same path and have its barbaric parts removed, perhaps we’ll see peace in the world instead of hundreds of Islamic atrocities each and every year. There’s enough mental illness in the world today that can trigger violent acts do we really need a religion like Islam to encourage them and make it worse ?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “…the New Testament was in fact a new version of the old testament…” Good grief – of course it isn’t. I suggest you stop posting on this subject immediately.

            Wizard Rule 35: If you don’t know what you’re talking about then you should probably stop talking.

            As you don’t seem to be able find anything unless someone gives your a URL then try these:
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Testament

          • WTF

            My goodness, that’s a first, the OminiImpotentWanker has actually posted a URL, h*** must be freezing over, what ever next !

    • shadsfan

      That DOES NOT mean we should, or will, accept it, condone it or put up with it. And in today’s reality is has a VERY political purpose! Anyone who thinks otherwise is sleepwalking. Bear one thing in mind naive people, it is the muslim’s avowed intent to build their cities on the rubble of ours. They need to be told, unequivocally, ‘it ain’t gonna happen’! And it won’t.

  • Blindsideflanker

    Guido Fawkes highlights the Channel 4 news reporter who has tweeted his view that any Muslim helping the authorities is an ‘Uncle Tom’ or a ‘House Muslim’ , and all Channel 4 news has asked him is to recognise the need to be impartial.

    http://order-order.com/2016/04/08/channel-4-news-reporters-racially-charged-tweets/

    Which sums up the double standards of the metropolitan media.

    • Jacobi

      Is that Channel 4 reporter a Muslim?

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      I’m blocked by Gutless Guido who cites Disqus as his justification.

  • Jacobi

    The trouble is that intelligence however assiduous will fail sooner or later. Trump is of course correct about Belgium disintegrating and also growing parts of France.

    But lets talk about reality, which is Islamic, that is religious, terrorism. Your point about tube stations is irrelevant. These people are away ahead of us and none of these ideas are new to them. There is however one other option. All-out assault and suppression of the Caliphates and then of all that entity that is Saudi/Sunni/ Arabia and its money, that made them. But it will have to be a bit more targeted than the mess of Iraq.

    And by the way, before we all throw up our hands in horror at this, do realise that it will come sooner or later, certainly within the next ten years. Islamic terrorism will see to that.

  • OmnipotentWizard

    Don’t panic:

    “Bees and wasps have caused as many deaths in the UK as terrorism in the past decade, an independent watchdog has found…. Five people per year are killed by bee or wasp stings, the report said, exactly the same amount, on average, of terrorist actions in the past decade.” (Huffington Post 28/06/2012)

    • David Beard

      Yes, imagine being in a room when someone throws in a jar of wasps and locks the door and blocks the windows.
      But hey don’t panic – they wont all actually sting you. ; – )

      • OmnipotentWizard

        Didn’t you understand my comment is simply to do with risk. You are six times more likely to be struck by lightening than killed in a terrorist attack.

        • Zaba

          I’m a taxpayer in the U.S.

          Here’s what concerns me about islam:

          If islam disappeared tomorrow,
          there would be 95% less armed conflicts on our tiny planet.

          http://www.raymondibrahim.com/islam/how-nazism-explains-moderate-and-radical-islam/

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Incorrect. The conflicts are about land and power. The combatants happen to be Muslims in many cases but they tend to be fight against….wait for the penny to drop…other Muslims.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Lefty ‘thought’ process laid bare for all to see. They ‘just happen’ to be other muslims… lol talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.

            And they fight against other muslims.. so not a religion of peace and… wait… so why are they killing each other? You’re saying that Sunni kills Shia and vice versa has nothing to do with Islam? A suicide bomber in Iraq who blows up a mosque killing those of another Islamic sect has nothing to do with Islam?

            On this thread all you have proved is that you’re thick as pig sh te.

          • Zaba

            or thick as a muzlim……

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “You’re saying that Sunni kills Shia and vice versa has nothing to do with Islam?” Well done you finally made it Cyril.

            Different groups fight each other for land and power. Everybody in one group will normally be of one religion or sect because poor societies are normally built that way.

            This has been your Epiphany.

          • Cyril Sneer

            No that was a confirmation I wanted from you – for you to confirm your stupidity.

            I do not share your view.

            I thought this was clear but I obviously needed to spell it out for you.

            Would you like some more help understanding this? You seem to be struggling with basic reading comprehension.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Oh dear – and I thought you’d finally achieved rational thought and them you lose it.

            Oh well.

          • Zaba

            Ah, then….you must be ‘on the straight path’…….

          • Zaba

            they tend to be fight against…..other Muslims.

            Tribal warfare against those ‘not on the straight path’
            is islam’s specialty.

        • WTF

          I can get a weather forecast to avoid a lightning strike I’ve yet to see a terrorist attack alert I can check on before I go to the shopping mall or check in at the airport.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            People don’t bother about avoiding rain storms because being struck by lightening is so unlikely. Exactly the same as shopping malls and terrorists WTF.

          • WTF

            Total fail, of course people avoid going out if its p****** down with
            rain. If you’re retired as I am I can pick and choose when to go out
            shopping and unless I’m desperate for something I’ve run out of I’ll
            wait till the weather eases up. Weird doesn’t even come close to your
            limp wizard thinking !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Total fail, of course people avoid going out if its p****** down…” Good grief man/woman/think this is Britain. You pick up an umbrella and assume to storm will pass in a minute.

          • WTF

            “People don’t bother about avoiding rain storms” – Your words not mine, I think you’re the epic fail here as unless its imperative to go out, why bother risk getting wet. What a plonker you are, sane people wait until the rain passes !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Good grief – if it looks like it going to rain you take an umbrella. Are you sure you’re British?

          • WTF

            More British than you sunshine judging by your apologies towards the religion of hate..

            Clearly you have cognitive issues, you don’t look at alternatives to a potential problem, you can’t think ahead and lack the ability to think through a simple choice like do I go out or not if its chucking it down or likely to. If your stumped on making sensible decisions over assessing risk of rain no wonder you have more serious issues everywhere else.

            Can’t your retarded brain assess simple choices like do I really need to go out today or can I leave it till another day as most other people would do. Its not that difficult at least for everyone else but clearly with your tunnel vision approach that also explains your tunnel vision in all other areas.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “More British than you sunshine…” Hardly – we British believe in fairness and liberty. You want to generalise about groups of people and ban things.

            No – I think your mother may have had a fling with a Jonny Foreigner about nine months before for were born that she hasn’t told you about.

            Wizard Rule 54: A country is not free unless it is free for everyone.

            Here is a foreigner that is more British than you:

            “I do not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it.” (Voltaire)

          • WTF

            My country was free thanks to both parents of British stock serving in the Armed forces during WWII and my grand parents before them in WWI, what did you’re parents do, assuming you know who they are ? Sadly its going down the drain thanks to traitors and village idgits like you !

            “Wizard BS 54: A country is not free unless it is free for everyone.”

            So by definition you don’t believe in incarcerating rapists, pedophiles or terrorists. That pretty much sits well with your usual rhetoric here and perhaps you’re into some of that yourself given your apologetic attitude to those who favor activities like that.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Do calm down WTF – our ancestors fought AGAINST a regime that would kill people because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, mental health condition, etc. If your grandparents were alive then they’d be spinning in their graves to know how you’ve turned out.

            One of my old neighbours has been in tanks and landed in Normandy on D+2 and managed to survive the war. In his final years he liked nothing more than when his grandchildren came to stay and (shock horror) some were Muslims.

          • WTF

            Answer the question, “what did you’re parents do, assuming you know who they are ?”

            Shock horror indeed but perhaps your old neighbor didn’t have to see the likes of Imran Khan who sexually abused a 6 year old girl in Burnley and then a 12 year old as well, Arshid Hussain and his brother Basharat Hussain who groomed and raped teenage girls in Rotherham and plenty more cases of non Muslim underage girls raped on an industrial scale in what is a hate crime.

            Clearly your old neighbor was lucky to have lived out his last few years before Islam kicked off this epidemic of terrorism, sexual abuse, beheading that we’ve seen across the west over the past 20 years. Fifty years ago we never heard of these sorts of things happening as you full well know but Islam turned malign prior to 9-11 for inexplicable reasons and the rest is history.

            http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5386/british-girls-raped-oxford

            Imran Khan

    • styants64

      Cannot see the connection terrorism avoidable don’t let the scum into yor country in the first place.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        There have never been more Muslims in the country and violent crime is at an all time low. Do you think these facts are related?

        • styants64

          Islam cult followers have m murded over forty thousand poor souls in the last year around world, five and half Stabbings in London in three year years over twenty three rapes in England and Wales in in one year get a reality check, plus Islam is a death cult look at its history.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So similar to non-Muslims then?

            “A gang of paedophiles raped and abused a baby and a pre-school child in attacks that were live streamed over the internet, … They are Robin Hollyson, 30; Christopher Knight, 35; Adam Toms, 33; David Harsley, 51, and Matthew Lisk, 32.. John Denham, 49, and Matthew Stansfield, 34, …” (Yahoo 10/04/2015)

          • styants64

            Now listen up you ignoramus they’re not the same percentages of British indigenous people in prison at the same percentages for these crimes, you are a fool A typical example of a liberal PC fool that has gotten into the foundations of our society and doing great damage.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Now listen up you ignoramus…”
            Wizard Rule 68: Aggression is often used to mask a weak argument.

            Here is a list of those terrible Muslim paedos:

            Mick Philpott, Ian Brady, Ian Huntley, Jimmy Saville, Fred & Rose West, Nilson, Mary Bell, Thompson & Venables, Jeremy Bamber, Michael Ryan, Mark Bridger, Harold Shipman, Peter Sutcliffe, Steve Wright, Colin Ireland, Beverly Allit, Stuart Hall, Cyril Smith, Will Cornick, Dale Bolinger, Stuart Hazell, William Vahey, Peter Tobin, Ray Teret, Robert Ewing, Trevor Monk, Fred Talbot, Adam Johnson. The list of these terrible Muslims goes on and on.

          • styants64

            A nasty collection you got there ignoramus, all taken across more than half a century many more than that Muslims put away in the last few years, you really are a fool.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Still can’t spell Savile?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            If that is the extend of your counter-argument then:

            Wizard Rule 58: If you have nothing to add then add nothing.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Your starter for 10, spell the name of the previous leader of the Labour party.
            Irish black beer.
            Hamburger fast food chain with Scottish name.
            Slipshod Britain: Where ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.
            Not a problem for you, Wiz.

          • Zaba

            the problem is islam

          • Cyril Sneer

            I’m still waiting for you to actually make a solid argument. I don’t think you know how to do this.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Just because you don’t to accept what I’ve shown you doesn’t mean it isn’t a solid argument.

            Wizard Rule 23: If you put your fingers in your ears and hum loudly enough you’ll never hear anything to challenge your prejudices.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Still waiting for this argument.

          • Zaba

            kitman

          • Cyril Sneer

            The point is if you had the choice would you knowingly import these in their thousands?

            No you wouldn’t.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            No – and it is just as well this isn’t happening. Mind you as most paedos are white males maybe we should export them somewhere. Maybe they could help the brave Kurds fighting ISIS?

          • Cyril Sneer

            “Mind you as most paedos are white males”

            In this country most people are white.

            That’s a clue for you right there.

            Do you need some more help working this out.

            I bet you will. It’s like black/white crime figures in the US, you lot every single time forget population ratios whilst on your anti-white racist crusade.

            But that’s because you’re a simple minded imbecile. Leave the real debate to us adults, run along little man.

          • David Beard

            As you would expect in a predominantly white society. We’re also more likely to report on our per*erts and rotten apples. Unfortunately some communities will still cover for their abusers (or deal with it within) as did the Catholic church in the 50s/60s/and 70s .

          • Zaba

            But islam is the religion of peace……

        • David Beard

          violent crime is at an all time low.

          Not where I live. I can promise you that.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Big oops David.

            “Rates of murder and violent crime have fallen more rapidly in the UK in the past decade than many other countries in Western Europe, researchers say. The UK Peace Index, from the Institute for Economics and Peace, found UK homicides per 100,000 people had fallen from 1.99 in 2003, to one in 2012.” (BBC Online News 24th April 2013)

          • Zaba

            the problem is islam:
            it is incompatible with the West, as Europe is learning close up.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            The problem is Islam; the solution is Islam.

          • Zaba

            but only from a ‘devout’ muzlim perspective…..

          • WTF

            Yep, ban it, problem solved.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Banning things is the sign of a society that has lost confidence in itself and its moral superiority. Now I know our capitalist secular democracy is the best system of Government anywhere anytime and as such I know all other religions, customs and political systems will fade naturally.

            I have confidence in my position – you are running scared of the bogeyman of Islam.

          • WTF

            We proscribe organizations that promote hate and terror, whats wrong with that !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            There would be nothing wrong with banning Pegida, ISIS, etc. But banning a religion (Islam) or political party (BNP) would be wrong. We have other laws to deal with any transgressions their members make.

          • Zaba

            islam is NOT a religion.
            What religion kills you for leaving?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            A number of Christian sects do.

          • WTF

            For a start, Pegidas aims are about banning a culture that promotes death to gay people, encourages sexual abuse against women and is against jihadists being allowed into the country. All very admirable qualities of which two are well supported by the progressive liberals for example and the latter is the remit of national security. Why would you want to ban an organization that promotes those values but give a free rein to a culture living in the 6th century causing all manner of mayhem around the globe.

            You have some really f***** up thinking in your wizard head, too many spells that back fired was it ?

          • Zaba

            scared of the bogeyman of Islam.

            What is Islam?
            Islam is a cultural, religious and political system. Only the political system is of interest to kafirs (non-Muslims) since it determines how we are defined and treated.

            The Islamic political system is contained in the Koran, the Hadith (the traditions of Mohammed) and his biography, the Sira.

            ….the Koran has 61% of its text devoted to the kafir. The Sira (Mohammed’s biography) has about 75% of its text devoted to the kafir and jihad.

            http://www.politicalislam.com/about/

          • OmnipotentWizard

            What have I told you about post links to THOSE websites making you look foolish.

            Now go back and hide under your bed in case the bogeyman gets you.

          • WTF

            You’re a day late and a dollar short as usual – your unsubstantiated assertions are out of date. Try looking at 2015 !

            http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35372940

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Incorrect.

            “Rates of murder and violent crime have fallen more rapidly in the UK in the past decade than many other countries in Western Europe, researchers say. The UK Peace Index, from the Institute for Economics and Peace, found UK homicides per 100,000 people had fallen from 1.99 in 2003, to one in 2012.” (BBC Online News 24th April 2013)

          • WTF

            You’re a day late and a dollar short as usual – your unsubstantiated assertions are out of date. Try 2015 !

            http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35372940

          • OmnipotentWizard

            You’ve shot yourself in the foot with this one WTF. You should probably read the article rather than just the headline before referencing it. The article says:

            “…murder rate in England and Wales has risen, it remains significantly lower than it was a decade ago…” AND “…Police figures need to be approached with caution: forces have adapted
            their methods after an inspection found they were not recording one in
            every five offences reported to them…”

            Wouldn’t it be good if we had an independent indication of violent crime that didn’t depend on police recorded figures? But wait we do…

            “Violent crime is continuing a long-term fall in England and Wales, according to annual figures from NHS hospitals. There was a 12% fall in injuries from violent incidents in 2013, according to data from almost a third of emergency departments examined by Cardiff University….They also said the figures mirrored other research, adding to evidence that the long-term trend in violent crime was down. The 12% fall means it is the fifth consecutive year that NHS units have recorded a decrease in violent injuries.” (BBC Online News 23/04/2014)

            …and before you claim that was last year then I think there were quite a lot of Muslims around then.

          • WTF

            Au contraire – we were discussing violent crime and you claimed from an older article of 2013 – “Rates of murder and violent crime have fallen more rapidly in the UK”

            I posted a link for 2015 which said “…murder rate in England and Wales has risen”.

            Sorry, you’re not a day late but 2 years late, try and keep up with current figures if you’re going to post assertions. Still having problems with URL links I see, your limp wand not working very well ?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            As I said WTF if you just read the headline and not the article then you are going to end up with egg on your face. Never mind.

          • WTF

            You posted the headline and I proved you wrong yet again, try again and maybe use one of your spells !

          • David Beard

            Incorrect? So every area of the UK and Europe always has the same rates of murder and violence with their respective percentage rising or falling accordingly?
            Don’t be so daft.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So you don’t understand percentages then? The Peace Index is available online if you wan t to check – or would you rather just snipe.

            Try this:

            “Violent crime is continuing a long-term fall in England and Wales, according to annual figures from NHS hospitals. There was a 12% fall in injuries from violent incidents in 2013, according to data from almost a third of emergency departments examined by Cardiff University….They also said the figures mirrored other research, adding to evidence that the long-term trend in violent crime was down. The 12% fall means it is the fifth consecutive year that NHS units have recorded a decrease in violent injuries.” (BBC Online News 23/04/2014)

          • Zaba

            Why did mohammad marry a six year old?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            So its a pathetic attempt to change the subject because one of your adherents (David Beard) is taking a beating. I can handle that…

            ….how do you know he did. It isn’t in the only contemporary document.

            BTW: Taking a young bride was common in all cultures at that time.

          • David Beard

            o its a pathetic attempt to change the subject because one of your adherents (David Beard) is taking a beating. I can handle that…

            Now you’re being childish. I am no one’s adherent. Just here for the discussion.

          • David Beard

            And i will tell you again – Not-Where-I-Live!. Trust me, I could post you to so many links of murders and attacks that have been committed within a mere square mile of my present abode within the last three years. Some very, very brutal indeed. But that is where I live. Being an unfortunate location blighted by drugs and gangs and other factors. So I am not disputing you altogether Do also take into account that many victims of violent crime don’t always want to report it.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “…I could post you to so many links of murders and attacks that have been
            committed within a mere square mile of my present abode within the
            last three years.” Good for you – but the discussion is about whether it is getting better. The A&E data shows clearly that it is.

            ” Do also take into account that many victims of violent crime don’t always want to report it.” That is EXACTLY the point. The police data is inaccurate because it relies on reporting of crimes. For example rape and sexual abuse numbers increase dramatically over the last couple of years but this is due entirely to more willingness to report such crimes. The A&E data does not suffer from the same problems and is the most reliable indicator of trends.

        • logdon

          No. You are a simple minded imbecile.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Wizard Rule 64: A rude response is no substitute for a sound argument.

        • Zaba

          Are you here to defend the ummah, perchance?

          • OmnipotentWizard

            No – I’m here to defend rational thought.

          • Zaba

            Certainly none of that in the koran.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            That is possibly the most pathetic response I’ve seen in a long time.

          • Zaba

            I mean, how rational is ‘strike them at the neck’ when you’re
            trying to prove that islam is the religion of peace?

          • WTF

            True though !

          • OmnipotentWizard

            WTF – Wizard Rule 58a: If you have nothing more to add then add nothing.

          • WTF

            Your first wizard rule should be “if you’ve nothing of value to offer, STFU !

    • Trailblazer10

      That is not how a potential threat is gauged. The key is the word “potential”.

      e.g.

      There have been no nuclear strikes against the UK. However, there is a great of effort put into protecting the UK against a “potential” nuclear strike.

      Not surprised you can’t grasp the obvious, given that you quote the Huff post, a publication filled with lunacy.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        “….given that you quote the Huff post, a publication filled with lunacy.”

        Wizard Rule 77a: People that are losing an argument will often try to discredit the source of the information they are arguing against. (In football this tactic is known as “Playing The Man”)

        • styants64

          There is nothing wizard about you the Huff post Is another liberal left wing propaganda sheet.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Point proven.

        • Rhein Ouaiffe

          Notwithstanding Trailblazer10’s rudeness, I believe his second paragraph warrants your serious attention.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I did actually destroy that argument on another thread Rhein – and still he repeats it. (maybe that is why he is rude)

            Here it is again (just for you) – the seriousness of a potential threat must be a combination of likelihood and impact. The nuclear attack is very unlike but the impact would be so great that making a lot of effort to counter it is justified. Although the likelihood of a terrorist attack is more it is still unlikely – as I have shown.

          • WTF

            The statistical likelihood of a terrorist attack (so far) is relative small BUT the impact when it happens is likely to be fatal as proved in N.Y., London, Madrid, Paris, Brussels or San Bernandino. If you’re in the wrong place at the wrong time, its likely to be terminal.

            However, the desired goal of Islamic terrorist attacks is to carry out as many fatal attacks as possible in as unpredictable manner as possible creating the most panic, harm, death count and disruption to our way of life. It is of far more serious concern than the cold war as we had MAD to keep the risks in check instead of religious Jihadists more than happy to meet their 72 virgins. Consequently, there is no equivalence between a nuclear strike in the 1960’s and a Islamic attack in the 2010’s or even your ‘bee’ sting rubbish.

            You’ve shown squat about clear and present dangers as your posts are more of a rambling idiot than a rationale individual assessing risks.

        • Trailblazer10

          Huff is an extremist propaganda rag, not a reliable source.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Wizard Rule 77a: People that are losing an argument will often try to discredit the source of the information they are arguing against. (In football this tactic is known as “Playing The Man”)

        • Zaba

          huffpo IS far Left.

          • PaD

            Huffpost is sh.t.

        • Cyril Sneer

          The fact that you think that is an argument is really quite funny.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            The fact that you are unable to make a proper response is really quite pathetic.

          • Cyril Sneer

            You have yet to make a proper argument.

            I don’t respond to playground politics sunshine.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “I don’t respond to playground politics…”

            Don’t or can’t?

          • Zaba

            Muslims have massacred over 669+ million non-Muslims since 622AD

            In the total numbers we have updated over 80 million Christians killed by Muslims in 500 years in the Balkan states, Hungary, Ukraine, Russia.

            Then we have India. The official estimate number of Muslim slaughters of Hindus is 80 million. However, Muslim historian Firistha (b. 1570) wrote (in either Tarikh-i Firishta or the Gulshan-i Ibrahim) that Muslims slaughtered over 400 million Hindus up to the peak of Islamic rule of India, bringing the Hindu population down from 600 mil to 200 million at the time.

            https://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/muslims-have-killed-over-590-million-non-muslims-since-the-birth-of-mohammed/

          • OmnipotentWizard

            “Muslims have massacred over 669+ million non-Muslims since 622AD” It’s the great and pointless “which religion has killed the most people” competition – what fun Zaba!

            We could go on for weeks comparing numbers and disputing each others – that would be fun. Whoopeee.

            BTW: Please only post links to unbiased blogs and websites in future otherwise you end up looking foolish.

          • Zaba

            We could go on for weeks comparing numbers …….

            In What Went Wrong, Bernard Lewis charted the decline of Islam in the modern era and the resulting theological crisis for the Muslim world.

            Now Islam is going through a second crisis, caused by the repeated failures of revivalist responses to the first crisis. This second crisis, combined with the cumulative effect of the first crisis, which remains unresolved, will lead to a long drawn-out period of political and social instability for Muslim societies.

            http://www.meforum.org/3750/islam-second-crisis

          • OmnipotentWizard

            I see you have been given the approved reading list. Bernard Lewis has been widely criticism for simplistic views. It really is time you started to think for yourself.

            “Now Islam is going through a second crisis…” Don’t just parrot somebody else’s words – think for yourself.

            And what did I tell you about posting links to sites with a self-proclaimed boas. You’ve made a fool of yourself yet again.

          • Zaba

            kaffir sources: never good enough for the ummah

        • WTF

          If only you provided the source, that would be a good start !

    • Zaba

      good sarcasm!
      that, and islam being the religion of peace has calmed me……

    • Cyril Sneer

      Tard left comment.

      What you’re really saying is full speed ahead with the kult of the multi-cult, keep loading the country with Muslims, despite this minority are causing far far more problems than any other religious minority by a mile and a bleeding half. So ignore the news, ignore reality, lets all join hands, insert our heads in our backsides and sing kumbaya and leave it all for our children to sort out.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        “What you’re really saying is…” Putting words into my mouth so you criticise me for (not) saying it is very childish.

        • Cyril Sneer

          By all means take the opportunity to clarify your position in that last comment…

          Oh I see that you haven’t bothered.

          This excsue for an argument that you lot wheel out – more people die in car crashes, more people die from bee stings… it’s like your 12 years old and you haven’t hit puberty yet.

          It’s playground stuff.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Asking me to do something and then criticising me for not doing it in the same post is very childish. Could you get any more juvenile.

          • Zaba

            The Greatest Murder Machine in History

            The enormity of the slaughters of the “religion of peace” are so far beyond comprehension that even honest historians overlook the scale.

            When one looks beyond our myopic focus, Islam is the greatest killing machine in the history of mankind, bar none.

            http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/05/the_greatest_murder_machine_in_history.html#ixzz3w8m1Rtio

          • OmnipotentWizard

            Its one of THOSE websites. Now you have made a fool of yourself Zaba. You should try:

            http://www.conservapedia.com/Main_Page

            That is also barking mad.

          • Zaba

            Its one of THOSE websites.

            Sometimes kaffir references are just not good enough.

            Taqiyyah: The Islamic Principle of Holy Deception

            Commenting on the Islamic practice of taqiyyah, noted scholar Babu Susilan writes: “Under the Islamic concept of Al-Takkeya, it is legitimate for Muslims to lie, cheat, murder, deceive and violate non-Muslims. According to Takkeya, Muslims are sanctioned to communicate with fake sincerity. In reality, they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. It is clear that Islam permits the Muslims to lie anytime, anywhere to promote the cause of Islam.”

            http://www.islam-watch.org/home/73-brahmachari/556-taqiyyah-the-islamic-principle-of-holy-deception.html

          • WTF

            He’s still trying to raise a smile with his wand but it ain’t working !

        • WTF

          You manage that perfectly well on your own with your foot in mouth disabilities !

    • WTF

      For a ‘wizard’ you’re the laziest PoS I’ve ever come across who cant even refer to the correct source material let alone a URL link pointing to it. I’d caution everyone reading your posts to take them with a pinch of salt (if they don’t already) as they are without foundation for the most part, they have no source reference and can easily be consigned to the trash can.

      The part about bee stings can from a government report written by David Anderson in the URL link supplied below and this is what he claimed.

      “no one has even been injured by an Islamist in this country for more than two years, while the number of convictions has dropped to a “handful”.

      Think about this dumb assertion for a minute, and I mean you Mr. Limp Wizard. No one has been hurt by an Islamist but convictions have been made ? Does that even make sense, who did they convict and on what charges when no one was hurt ? Go figure !

      Of course, this report was done in 2011 and a lots changed since then like ISIS perhaps, home grown Jihadists and the like. We conveniently air brushed that one out didn’t we Limp Wizard ! Many other crimes linked to Islam don’t even get a mention in this report and there’s far more risk of a underage girl getting gang raped in certain inner cities where you wont even find a bee.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9359763/Bee-stings-killed-as-many-in-UK-as-terrorists-says-watchdog.html

      • OmnipotentWizard

        Oh dear – you did write a lot and still failed to contradict my point.

        “Does that even make sense, who did they convict and on what charges when no one was hurt ? Go figure !” I’ve figured and decided that not all crimes result in injury.

        • WTF

          Perhaps if you’d got the source material for your bee comment correct you’d have some credence but alas no and the report was 5 years old when crime stats have changed for the worse since then. Are you living in a bygone age or something as your dubious assertions are always historical and never up to date.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            You are struggling a bit here. The number of terrorist attacks in the UK since the Huffington Post Article means the figures are even better now. And you are at least six times more likely to be struck by lightening than be killed in a terrorist incident…

            “According to the tornado and storm research organisation (Torro) database, 30 to 60 people are struck by lightning each year, …” (Guardian 28/07/2014)

            Just supplying a URL is very lazy as then the reader has to read the whole article to try to untangle what you mean – I prefer to show exactly the relevant part with enough info for the person to find it if they wish.

          • WTF

            Failure to supply a URL gives no credence to the post. One should make your point or assertion and then back it up with reference URL’s. That’s not lazy that shows you take proof seriously.

    • Zaba

      kitman

  • London, May 22, 2013

    Here’s the Woolwich, London sidewalk where Lee Rigby was said to have had his head partially severed. Note there’s no pools of blood…

    http://theageofvolcanoes.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/bs-4.jpg

    …and here’s the sidewalk with the pools of blood, after the arrival of the armed police (the supposed blood pool in the top sidewalk tile covers the whole base area of the tile according to the witness photo, but in the images below the supposed blood pool for that tile is only a long narrow band confined to the tile’s left area) …

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/beheading8.jpg

    …and a close up view (one can clearly make out the stained gray area that covers the base area of the top sidewalk tile, and there isn’t supposed to be any pools of blood in the lower sidewalk tile according to the witness photo)…

    https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/original-blood-jpg.3346/

    Oops, MI5 forgot to add the pools of blood before the cell phone cameras started taking pictures! By the way, why is that lady in the background calmly walking by, unconcerned? Because the incident was a drill that went live, which is called a false flag operation.

    In fact, the three long blood streaks that transverse two sidewalk tiles are entirely missing from this even earlier picture taken…

    http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/5/24/1369391311502/Scenes-from-Woolwich-011.jpg

    Now you know why the spectators were just standing around taking pictures at the scene, or calmly going about their business, walking by the “murderers”…

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/23/article-2329236-19F1FAC8000005DC-504_634x474.jpg

    …and another unconcerned pedestrian that no one is preventing from walking right by one of the “murderers”…

    http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/23/article-0-19F1FAA2000005DC-793_634x400.jpg

    Then we have the pedestrian with the video phone who stands calmly as one of the “murderers” approaches him and records the “murderer’s” rambling speech on his video phone!

    The above means that the so-called ‘War on Terror’ is an operation being carried out by the Marxist co-opted governments of the West in alliance with the USSR and other Communist nations, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending ‘War on Terror’; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union ‘From the Atlantic to Vladivostok’; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    The following is a discovery I made in April regarding the fake collapse of the USSR, and what that fraudulent collapse proves about the institutions of the West…

    When Soviet citizens were liberated from up to 74 years of horrific Marxist-atheist oppression on December 26, 1991 there were ZERO celebrations throughout the USSR, proving (1) the ‘collapse’ of the USSR is a strategic ruse; and (2) the political parties of the West were already co-opted by Marxists, otherwise the USSR (and East Bloc nations) couldn’t have gotten away with the ruse.

    ZERO celebrations, as the The Atlantic article inadvertently informs us…

    http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/12/20-years-since-the-fall-of-the-soviet-union/100214/

    Notice, however, the Kremlin staged anti-government demonstrations that took place in Russia (and other Soviet republics) in the years immediately preceding the ‘collapse’, yet ZERO celebrations after the ‘collapse’!

    My blog…

    https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/

  • Zhang Wei

    Publicity and panic is all the West is capable of it is a useless paper tiger. The tabloids might feed the spastic public a false story about our boys the SAS etc turning the tide against ISIS and bossing things in the middle east but the truth is the West is now powerless to influence the outcome of this conflict.

  • Neil Orange peel

    Stop voting Tory then!

    Vote UKIP if you want your bloody country back. Dave and his pals are just gonna keep giving it away.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Helping terrorists? Look no further than Border Force those wonderful people who are letting the wrong people in while keeping the right people out. Hardly surprising when you see the number of Pakistan-born Immigration officers at London Heathrow. Muslims helping brother Muslims. But voice the slightest concern, and a black combat uniformed thug will be screaming “How dare you!” Followed by “You’re a racist”, and “Do you come from a racist country?” Finally dissolving into a totally incoherent psychotic episode.
    This was what I was subjected to at LHR Terminal 5 on 1st February last.
    Underlying message: “You will suck up multiculturalism and like it, you second class subject”. Well not me Sunshine. Police State UK: Hate it and leave it.
    Jack, the partially blocked Japan Alps Brit.
    Any suggestions for a new user name? Is “SpinonthisDisqus” taken?

    • Zaba

      “You’re a racist”

      Just remind ’em: islam is NOT a race…………

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Tell that to Adolph, the attack dog of Terminal 5.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Every reported sexual assault by Muslim immigrants is good news for the “Vote Leave” faction.

    • Zaba

      Trouble is, many are not being reported…..

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        My point precisely.

  • Pioneer

    Does the author really not know what the terrorists objectives are? That is why they are winning.

  • PaD

    The same SimonJenkins whos tuppenceworth over young jihadis goi g to syria from uk…he thought theyd be like any middleclass boys on a camping trip..get hot tired and fed up and want to come home for clean underwear anda cup of cocoa..or words tothat effect.
    Bullshit Guardian opinion…just like this piece of nonsense.

  • mikewaller

    This piece really is extraordinarily naive. Security and personal freedom are always in conflict and compromises have to be made in conditions such as those in which we now find ourselves. Even empty political gestures have their place. I seem to recall that much of the metal collected in the early days of WW2 proved to be of little use; but calling for it did wonders in terms of getting across the message as to just how big a hole we were in. Even the point about Margaret Thatcher’s insistence of the IRA being treated as common criminals (a view which I shared) has to be questioned in the light of the enormous propaganda coup achieved by the hunger strikers.

    The one thing he does get right is the pernicious role played by the very large scum-bag component of the British press. The following is one of the wartime exhortations now enjoying a second lease of life: “Self-indulgence at this time is helping the enemy”. In slavish pursuit of their proprietors’ wishes, it is not a message many modern journalists have much time for.

    • Zalacain

      “Security and personal freedom are always in conflict.” You are totally wrong. China, Saudi Arabia and Russia have little personal freedom and have little security. It may be counter intuitive, but freedom also tends to provide security. Of course governments tend to agree with you as this gives them the excuse to extend their own powers.

  • putin

    The old don’t do what the terrorists want argument: “It’s all our fault. If we are nice to them they’ll be nice to us. We think reasonably and rationally and are civilised, so they must be too”. The logical fallacy that riddles the left. It’s the reason Merkel thinks the 3rd world will become “good Germans”. When will you understand that it doesn’t matter how we react or what we do, they want to destroy the west and impose their backward beliefs upon us. Enough. Our civilisation is clearly superior to theirs and that’s part of the reason they hate us. I’m pretty sure we could stop their terrorist attacks if we really wanted. Unfortunately we don’t have the political will to do what is necessary yet, however there are early signs that this is changing but some people are slow learners.

  • Peter

    Simon is surely correct. There is no existential threat to the UK from terrorism. Many more are killed on the UK roads. And more were killed in Ireland than on 9/11. So we must all calm down. I am not sure myself what the cause is, but overreaction by western politicians and military can not have helped. Much of the squabble is sunni v shiite v alawite – and we should not take sides in this mediaeval struggle. We had enough such strife in Europe in 17th C with catholic v protestant slaughter which killed millions. Who now cares? No doubt the territorial struggle over Israel has some effect. My own view for what it is worth is that the west should not be involved in the struggle between Zionists and Palestinians. Every culture has colonised every other since the beginning of time leading to territorial wars. Of course in spite of whether this struggle is one of the causes of terrorism, anybody who asserts neutrality is now immediately accused of anti semitism. Not true of course, and older readers like me will remember when the Spec was more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause.

    • WTF

      Comparing deaths from different causes is not a reasonable or even sensible equivalence.

      We could make cars much more safer by limiting speeds to 30 MPH for example. We could use soft exterior materials to protect pedestrians better and there’s plenty of other mechanisms that would significantly reduce deaths and injuries but we don’t. Why don’t we, because the authorities consider its a price worth paying against the down side of slowing traffic down or increasing car costs. At no cost, we could ban mobile phone use in cars and from tests carried out, it would save more lives that DUI deaths but we don’t. Why ? because the business lobby wants to have 24/7 access to their road warriors. However, in both of these situations individuals have the ability to mitigate the risks themselves through their own actions.

      On terrorism, we could significantly reduce that threat if tougher measures were taken but we don’t because of political correctness. Can we the public mitigate against Islamic terrorism dangers ? Short of never leaving your home we cant and god forbid if WMD are used even there we may not be safe. Its a reality that some people will feel safer being in control of a car rather than being flown in a plane despite stats disproving that but what can we do to enhance our safety from terrorism. When shopping, having a drink in a bar, checking in at an airport and many other public place venues we are helpless to mitigate for our own safety and thats why most view terrorism a much bigger threat than driving a car.

      • SunnyD

        just out of curiosity, haven’t mobile phones been banned from use on Britain’s roads (at least, handheld mobile use)?
        otherwise – completely agree with everything else you said

        • WTF

          Not hands free mobile phones unlike Spain where any use is banned. The point being that tests have showed that when the brain has to process other information such as a mobile phone conversation whether hands free or not, it distracts and removes part of the processing ability of the driving function. Of course the content of the phone conversation will have a greatly varying effect of how much it takes away from the driving function.

          I always equate this sort of distraction from other distractions inside the car. When I had two kids in the back seat squabbling I could ‘tune out’ that noise and it didn’t bother me. I’m sure many husbands could also ‘tune out’ their wives talk especially if it was trivia or nagging hence the complaint that men never listen to their spouses. Whilst driving a car, I’d argue that’s a good thing in the fact that most married men could do this or soon learned to do it.

          The real problem arose when you had to deal with queries that involved a lot of thought. For instance, I was a sales support engineer and I’d have customers ringing up about complex technical problems. I found that took at least 50% of my processing capability and I stopped receiving calls from customers whilst driving and took them only when I stopped.

          There’s a good analogy here with computers. A computer operating system will schedule different tasks according to importance and low level tasks are put to the bottom for when there’s time to process them. If you gave the same priority to low level tasks, you would miss real time events completely. An example being recording video on a PC but letting trivial tasks ‘butt’ in and you’ll drop video frames. That just spoils the recorded video but if driving, a crash could result.

          That’s why I’m a firm advocate of no phone use at all whilst driving as compared to decades ago when I like most people drank and drove, that’s generally less dangerous than mobile phones as there were no distractions. I should add I’ve had a ‘designated’ driver for years now so no problems with drink and drive and if I’m driving, she answers the mobile.

          • Mr B J Mann

            But the “Speed Kills!” lobby insist on adding ever more distractions.

            Once upon a time speed limits were set to the speed above which most drivers would drive a road and the guidelines for their enforcement was that they were to be used as a tool to facilitate the prosecution of those driving at a speed MARKEDLY faster than the SAFE speed (note NOT the limit) for the road.

            Once upon a time if you drove safely you didn’t have to look for limits or at your speedo.

            Now you are continually on the look out for changing limits, bus lane times, humps, chicanes, you name it.

            Round our way they have even stuck little models of children round a crossing.

            While you are taking a double take at that you are almost guaranteed to miss a real child:

            And hit it!

            But then the aim of the public transport industry funded road “safety” lobby has never been to keep kiddies safe:

            But to drive motorists out of their cars and onto buses and trains!

          • WTF

            Sounds like you have a serious persecution complex like that wizard character posting here, better seek some help or take some tranqs before you have a heart attack. I’m sure others like myself haven’t a clue what the h*** you are really on about other than something related to speed limits.

            Whats up, did you get banned for speeding ?

          • Mr B J Mann

            Nope, spotless licence.

            And never hit anyone without blame either.

            But when I receive two such hate filled replies full of such wounding ad hominems to statements of fact it would hardly be surprising if I did develop a serious persecution complex.

            Just because you see something on the back of every bus, all over the media, and even on government websites, it doesn’t make it true.

            And sometimes it’s not just false, but harmfully false.

            I take it you’re one of those people who believe in everything from WMD to MMGW.

            WTF indeed.

            Or perhaps you have your own personal reasons, or even personal demons, that drive you to be suckered in by the “Speed Kills!” propaganda?!

            Did you bother to try that little experiment I started my “rant” with?

            Or was your immediate reaction to hit your keyboard as quickly as possible?!

            As I said, we’re all living in a real world behavioural science experiment.

            And some of the results it throws up are really fascinating!!!

          • WTF

            You clearly have some mental issues a bit like that Leon Wolfson character who pops up here every so often when they let him out for a brief period. You’re not that same person incognito are you as your sentiment is very similar !

      • Mr B J Mann

        Oooops, you’ve fallen for some PC BS there!

        “We could make cars much more safer by limiting speeds to 30 MPH for
        example.”

        Touch your nose very, very slowly, then quite quickly, then smash your fist into your nose as fast as you can.

        And see which had the least impact?!

        We don’t drive in a Physics Lab, but a real world Behavioural Science experiment.

        In the real world there is an optimum rate at which to do anything which gives the greatest efficiency and safety, go too fast and you can’t cope and have accidents, too slow and get bored and have accidents, a fact that holds true everywhere from a production line to a nuclear power plant control room, from a railway to an airliner, everywhere, except, according to the PC crowd, the roads?!?!?

        Which is safer, to be missed at 40 or hit at 30, or even 20?

        Until the “Speed Kills!” lobby took over road “safety” the DoT website actually used to point out this well known transport engineering fact and gave several examples of research that confirmed it.

        On a related point, the “Speed Kills!” crowd crows about how lowered limits facilitate flow and increase capacity.

        Actually, it’s the reduction in the SPREAD of speeds that does that.

        Introducing MINIMUM speed limits on motorways would work much better!

        “We could use soft exterior materials to protect pedestrians
        better and there’s plenty of other mechanisms that would significantly
        reduce deaths and injuries but we don’t.”

        But the main cause of pedestrian (85%) and cyclists accidents is their own suicidal actions. Where is the sense, for example, in covering a lorry cab with mirrors and filling it with monitors so that when the driver has time to look out he can’t see the road?!

        If we don’t expect a “vulnerable” road user to spot a 40 ton 40 footer why do we insist that its driver should be responsible for spotting a cyclist, never mind a pedestrian?!

        If you tell pedestrians and cyclists it’s the driver’s responsibility to look out for them they are going to continue throwing themselves under the wheels of passing vehicles and undertaking (it’s called that for a reason) at junctions.

        And the more mirrors, monitors, sensors, you load the driver with, on top of all their other responsibilities, means, as you mention later, the less attention they can pay to the road!!!

        “At no cost, we could ban mobile phone use in cars and from tests carried out, it would save more lives that DUI deaths”

        The way these tests are done is that people are put into a driving simulator, and then eg instructed to do ever more difficult mental arithmetic over a mobile phone until they “crash”.

        And then the “scientific result” is announced that talking on a mobile phone is as dangerous as drinking x amount of of alcohol.

        No, it’s not the phone, it’s the distraction of doing mental arithmetic so difficult they couldn’t concentrate on “driving”.

        You might as well fire instructions at them to make faster and faster gear changes until they are so distracted they crash and then say changing gear is as dangerous as drinking x amount of of alcohol.

        • WTF

          A fine rant, WTF was it all about other than making your day !

          You’re completely off the mark here as I was merely pointing out obvious facts. I could go on and respond more but clearly you have some strange convoluted agenda in your long ranting narrative so its pointless engaging with someone so wound up and not fully in control of their faculties. Have a nice day !

          • Mr B J Mann

            Clearly only one of us was pointing out facts.

            Clearly if it was me they aren’t that obvious to you.

            And my “agenda” is to counter clearly not so obvious propaganda when I see it and put what I see as obvious facts into the public domain.

            As for rants, fine or otherwise, making my day, being completely off the mark, it’s a pity you couldn’t go on and respond more but clearly you have some strange convoluted agenda in YOUR long ranting narrative so its pointless engaging with someone so wound up and not fully in control of THEIR faculties.

            Have a nice day!

          • WTF

            Yes, and I pointed the facts out in my first post explaining why we don’t limit cars to ridiculous low speeds but that was clearly lost on you. There’s those like you who don’t want to see the truth even if its ‘smashed’ in their face.

            Equally its a fact that removing distractions like using mobile phones whilst driving will save lives. The studies in a simulator are backed up by facts relating accidents & deaths caused by real people on real roads using real phones whilst driving real cars but lets ignore those inconvenient facts so your rant makes sense ! It would seem that others tend to agree with my quite reasonable balanced post unlike your diatribe of BS.

            Have you anything to say of value that has a smidgen of fact in it or do you just like the sound of your own rant ?

          • Mr B J Mann

            No, you hadn’t “pointed the facts out in my first post explaining why we don’t limit cars to ridiculous low speeds but that was clearly lost on you”.

            Unless you’re referring to: “We could make cars much more safer by limiting speeds to 30 MPH for example……. but we don’t. Why don’t we, because the authorities consider its a price worth paying against the down side of slowing traffic down or increasing car costs”

            But that is wrong on so many counts, in fact on EVERY count, as I’ve carefully and courteously already explained to you:

            1) You couldn’t “make cars much more safer by limiting speeds to 30 MPH for example” – if the optimum safe speed is over 30 then that would make the roads more dangerous, and I don’t mean just more slow speed shunts – I mean more fatalities.

            2) But we do limit speeds to 30, and even 20. We even limited the speeds of motorway standard roads built to bypass 40mph London roads to 30mph AND monitored them with speed cameras, giving motorists TWO extra things to distract them, while the ordinary urban roads they bypassed could still be driven at 40.

            3) And we even lower speed limits on actual motorways when, as I’ve explained it’s counter-productive, slowing traffic, increasing congestion, and costs.

            4) So the authorities don’t “consider its a price worth paying against the down side of slowing traffic down or increasing car costs”:

            They do lower limits, they do slow traffic, and they do increase car costs.

            But, more importantly they slow the reduction in accidents and fatalities.

            But why did I expect you to b able to follow the explanations I tried to give you when the level you argue at is:

            “Sounds like you have a serious persecution complex like that wizard character posting here, better seek some help or take some tranqs before you have a heart attack. I’m sure others like myself haven’t a clue what the h*** you are really on about other than something related to speed limits.”
            “Whats up, did you get banned for speeding ?”

            “You clearly have some mental issues a bit like that Leon Wolfson character who pops up here every so often when they let him out for a brief period. You’re not that same person incognito are you as your sentiment is very similar !”

          • WTF

            I make a simple observation which several others agree with and you go off on some rant that wont stop. I’m not wasting further time explaining to a retarded individual like yourself when others understood me the first time around. You believe what you want and the rest of us can believe what we want.

          • Mr B J Mann

            I merely made a simple correction when you blindly repeated some PC propaganda.

            I’d have thought you’d have welcomed that.

            The fact that you, and others, insist on continuing to believe misinformation says more about you, and them, than it does about me, as confirmed by the way you repeatedly went off on several unpleasant rants that you appeared to be unable to stop.

            Feel free to continue to believe what you want.

            In fact, feel free to add WMD, IHNTDWI, IitRoP, and even MMGW, to your list of delusions!

          • WTF

            The general idea that you’re right and everyone else is wrong is that it’s threatening to admit you’re wrong and that qualifies as you as being stupid and vain. Its a syndrome and best described here.

            http://www.times-standard.com/article/ZZ/20100801/NEWS/100809643

          • Mr B J Mann

            Try looking in a mirror mate.

            I’m telling you the facts as known by the DoT, roads engineers, safety experts, and psychologists, and available on the DoT website before road safety was hijacked by the “Speed Kills!” lobby.

            You haven’t a clue, are just guessing, and have been brainwashed by “Speed Kills!” lobby propaganda.

            You either haven’t bothered to think, and are still brainwashed, or you have, but daren’t admit you were wrong (see your own link – and it doesn’t matter how many people upvoted you if you were wrong – that just means they were all wrong too!).

            Did you ever try the experiment I suggested at the very beginning of this “discussion”?

            If you did: what was the result?!

          • WTF

            I wouldn’t be dumb enough to try your ‘smash the face’ stunt in the first place but after seeing what its done to your cognitive ability, thought process’s and general problem analysis, I’d warn others not to self harm as you obviously have. Whether you suffered from a limited gene pool as a child or practiced blunt trauma experiments later on, its clearly turned your brain to mush !

          • Mr B J Mann

            Well, welcome to the Wickle Teeny Firker, noeL nosefloW and the Obnoxious Wazzock’s even dumber baby brother!

            For most reasonably intelligent people, and fact, for most people with half a brain, there’s no need to try my ‘smash the face’ stunt, as you call it, in the first place, because they could do it as a thought experiment.

            Most people have got enough sense to realise that any reasonably normal person trying to do it for real would be unable to actually smash themselves in the nose as hard as they could.

            Thereby proving that when it comes to the crunch it’s behavioural science and not “simple physics” that’s the month important in transport safety.

            The object of the exercise is to avoid accidents happening in the first place.

            And then minimising the speed of IMPACT when they do.

            It’s no good enforcing.30 limit if that means motorists IMPACTING at 30 rather than avoiding th accident entirely or at worst impacting at low speed!

            But, of course, you “know” better!

          • WTF

            Its sad when you see a mental break down live on posts written here and judging by your first line, you’re having a doozy of one !

          • Mr B J Mann

            8< – – –

    • Linda Smith

      “The territorial struggle over Israel” is a religious conflict. Israel is built on land that was previously conquered in jihad. Religious muslims cannot countenance living in equality with the infidel Jew which is why they rejected the Partition Plan and called for a genocidal was against the Jews.. Religious muslims cannot Go and read your Koran. There are also calls for Spain etc. to be reconquered for islam. By the way, why do you think Pakistan was created – because muslims wanted their own State.

    • Cyril Sneer

      “Many more are killed on the UK roads”

      This is a really tired and irrelevant excuse made daily by the lefty commentators.

      • putin

        Lefty logic. So lets see how this works, over 230,000 people died in the 2004 tsunami, so we shouldn’t worry too much about terrorism? Now replace tsunami with traffic accidents. Just as absurd.

        • Zaba

          Kidding Ourselves About Islam

          The West’s feather-footed leaders tread softly when extolling “moderate” Muslims as the purported antidote to the creed’s literalist firebrands and militant extremists. What they lack the courage to acknowledge is that the Qur’an is itself the fountainhead of radicalism

          Perhaps the most dangerous consensus is the misconception that Islamic State (ISIS), the Taliban, Al-Qaeda and other Islamic terrorist variants are the problem to be addressed and that, with sufficient firepower, the obvious manifestations of these elements can be contained or eliminated. In fact these groups are simply elements of a much larger issue: the re-emergence of a militant and resurgent Islam.

          http://quadrant.org.au/opinion/qed/2016/03/muddle-headed-thinking-will-solve-islamic-imbroglio/

    • RevnantDream

      Jews came from Israel, its like telling native Americans to get out of America. Its their land of birth.Not Islams , In fact before the middle ages most of North Africa was not Muslims. Who are the colonizers by population & murder? You can guess.

    • Dexter vs Sinister

      Past terror cannot be compared with FUTURE terror.
      We cannot know what is GOING TO happen, but the threat posed by IS and any other offshoots is greater than any threat we have faced since the days of Hitler and his pal Stalin.
      You just don’t know that yet.
      Sleep well in your ignorance.

  • exemplary1

    Here in the U.S. the media enabled Donald Trump, but if they’d just ignored him for the twit he is he’d never had gotten nearly this far.

    • WTF

      The real question to ask is just why did the media in America round on Trump. If he was a twit as you claim and the media viewed him that way and ignored him he wouldn’t have had all that free oxygen in the media.

      Perhaps its more a case of he touched a lot of nerves underneath his brash exterior and many issues hit home. For example, his comment on banning Muslims until adequate vetting was in place is hardly racist. The vetting process was clearly broken as evidenced by the massacre at Bernandino and it makes sense to halt immigration from known risks until its fixed. Similarly virtually all of his comments touched similar nerves which is why he has the support he’s got and the forces of the establishment are ranged against him.

      I think your word ‘twit’ is grossly incorrect as you can try and label him a lot of things but twit isn’t one of them. Now how about a real debate on Trump and his policies rather than insults.

      • Trailblazer10

        The FBI stated it is impossible to vet them.

        • WTF

          So the logical conclusion is ———-.

          A bit like when ebola was a problem, you shut down entry from that region on safety grounds until the danger passes.

        • Linda Smith

          Israel seems to manage.

          • WTF

            Yes they do and they only have to look for enemies within rather than the rest of the westerns world where we have too look in both directions due to our immigration policies and PC rubbish.

          • Zaba

            Israel’s view…and actions….are world wide.

      • Dexter vs Sinister

        The left seem genuinely terrified of him.
        That is his strength.

  • Mike

    You want to end, say, ISIS terrorism in Europe?

    Easy.

    Every time they sponsor a terrorist act in Europe, or anything that looks related to them, carpet bomb one of their major strongpoints, starting with Raqqa or Molenbeek. Then publicise *THAT*.

    Lots of innocents will die, and it’ll be ugly. Really ugly. But the terror WILL stop if it’s done.

    The reason will be simple: the “normal” people in these places, who are trying to avoid angering them out of fear, will have something that they’ll be even MORE afraid of, causing them to be willing to turn in the jihadists.

    It’s ugly. It’s unfair. But it would work.

    Fear is the driver of all of this, in all directions.

    • Trailblazer10

      Don’t agree with that, it sounds very nasty. A better solution:

      Permanently banish 10 politicians each time.Starting with Cameron and his cohorts. Where they go is of no interest.

    • gelert

      Islamabad and Riyadh would be far more effective.

      • Bertie

        No Mecca and Medina, Raqqa – the latter shouldve been nuked long ago as ISIS is holed up there.

        But if we’v e a couple left over wouldnt cross those places off the list 🙂

        • Larry Bond

          Hallo Bertie, This is off topic but you just up-ticked a comment I made about Hindus integrating well in Leicester — could please tell me a bit about what you know about Asian integration into British society. Seems to be a hot topic on this site. I don’t want to judge or argue, just know the truth.

    • Bertie

      You need to run for government
      These bastards understand “force only”

      We need to show them that we are still a force to be reckoned with.

    • Nanoaggressive

      Might as well just get rid of all the Muslims.

  • d21121

    Is it bring a guardian journalist to work day over at the spectator today? This article did feel slightly split personality.

  • boiledcabbage

    Appeasement – which is the tone of this dire sermon from Jenkins – for now seems the only solution, as there is absolutely no consensus, or even the ability, for any other course of action. Recent poll shows vast numbers of muslims in the UK with a different agenda to the mainstream, drifting closer to ISIS perhaps in the coming years. For example over a million muslims [actually polled 53%] have a problem with gay people.

    • Bertie

      Deport them all imo. Time to get tough – abide by British law and cultural values or leave

      War is coming.

      Make sure you are prepared.

  • John M

    I don’t think those dumb old boys at ISIS need to watch the dumb old BBC for ideas on targets, much as it might feed egos at Media City to think so.

    Targets are selected on the ability of the protaganists to travel to them. The Brussels bombers had fairly unimpeded movement throughout the Shengen zone, hence European targets. If logistics were no obstacle I’m sure two or three of them would have detonated themselves in the middle of Canary Wharf underground during rush hour for maximum effect.

    • Dexter vs Sinister

      Their targets were NOT originally the ones chosen.

      They changed their targets because they suspected the capture of Abdeslam would mean they would be dead soon, and made the choice to get dead sooner.

  • Andrew Morton

    Whats with the moderators tonight?

    • Bertie

      Busy sharing coffee/spliffs with the enemy.

  • Andrew Morton

    For those that say the West started troubles in the middle east, I think you should be reminded that a lot of terrorists are of Pakistani origin and quite a few are home grown. So that won’t wash with me because it would be like Spain starting a war with us for the Argentinians over the Falklands.

    • WTF

      I agree, the liberal apologists are devoid of real argument they have to try and invent some cause & effect to put the blame back on the west. Naturally they cherry pick specific narrow time frames to fuel their narrative as by encompassing all of mankind’s history it would self destroy their lame assertions.

      If they really want to use historical events in an honest fashion to explain where we are today, we should at least go back 2000 years to when Rome ruled Europe and the middle east to get some semblance of reality but they refuse do that. They conveniently forget that Islam has been waging war for 1400 years whilst European colonization only lasted around 200 years and American much shorter.

      They air brush out the 200 millions Hindus slaughtered by Muslims on the Indian continent or just in the last century the 1 million Armenians killed thorough Muslim genocide against them. Even very recent events are downplayed like the Islamic genocide of Christians or Yahzadis in Syria and all we hear about is a few mistaken attempts by the west to try and bring democracy to barbaric states.

      If there’s one lesson we should learn from this is let Muslims kill each other just as Christianity went through centuries ago, try and save non Muslims at risk and build a wall around all these warring factions to keep them out from the west.

      • Bertie

        Nailed it. Apologists however will hound you for such a sensible factual view.

  • Dexter vs Sinister

    It comes as no surprise whatsoever to learn that the author of this garbage in a guardian writer….

    Probably has a NOTHING TO DO WITH ISLAM tattoo.

    • David Beard

      No, he’s got a prophet Mohammed tattoo. He’s not scared.

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