A survivor of the Copenhagen attack speaks: ‘If we should stop drawing cartoons, should we also stop having synagogues?’

Helle Brix was with Lars Vilks when the gunman opened fire. Vilks raised a beer

21 February 2015

9:00 AM

21 February 2015

9:00 AM

Two years ago the Danish writer Helle Brix helped found the Lars Vilks Committee. The group of media figures from left and right came together to support the Swedish artist who has been under constant threat of death since drawing a picture of Mohammed in 2007.

‘We agreed that Mr Vilks should not be alone in the world,’ says Helle when we spoke earlier this week, ‘and if the establishment or the Swedish artists wouldn’t support him then we would. We wanted to give him a platform and a possibility to do what he used to do before he was unable to go out and meet the public because this is, of course, what disappears when you become a target, you get a lot of security around you and people are afraid to invite you. They are afraid to let you make exhibitions or have public discussions so we simply facilitate meetings in Copenhagen.’ Saturday was their eighth meeting.

Helle was beside Vilks when the shooting started. ‘I didn’t realise at first what was going on. I just said to myself, what on earth is that? And then the security guards, the Swedish security guards — because of course we always have a heavy set-up, people from Danish intelligence services, Swedish intelligence services and armed police. The Swedish security guard, he shouted “Everyone run to the back, as quickly as you can.” He also pushed Lars and me to the end of the doorway into a little storage room, locked the door and there we were under a table, Lars Vilks and I.’

‘A little later a policeman came in and we noticed a lot of blood running down his leg. He was a little confused. Lars and I realised that someone had been hit and we asked, “May we ask how serious this is?” The policeman answered that two security guards from the Danish intelligence service had been hit, a policeman, that it was not serious. But that there was someone else who was seriously hurt and he said, he didn’t look so good. The person who didn’t look so good was a Danish film director, Finn Nørgaard, who was among the audience. He later died. He had gone outside the building to make a phone call or get some fresh air and met the assassin on his way in. He was shot at close range.’

It could have been even worse. ‘I and the other committee members and the audience are enormously grateful for these brave people,’ says Helle. ‘If they hadn’t fired back when the assassin went into the lobby and tried to shoot his way into the room where we were, if they hadn’t done that, putting their lives at stake, many of us would not be alive.’

The gunman escaped and later went to a synagogue where he shot a Jewish man dead. It was the same as Paris. As Helle says: ‘First you go after the cartoonists, second you go after the Jews.’

Helle — who has been a friend of mine for some years — is part of an extraordinary circle of Danish men and women who are determined to stand their ground. They have been doing so for almost a decade. Since 2005, the list of targets has only grown. As well as repeated attempts to attack the Jyllands Posten newspaper, which ran a series of satirical cartoons of Mohammed in 2005, there was the attempted assassination of the Danish writer and historian Lars Hedegaard in 2013.

All these writers and artists are well aware that freedom has enemies these days. Just last year the Vilks committee gave its free speech award to the French magazine Charlie Hebdo, whose editor came to Copenhagen to collect the prize. On Saturday, the meeting was opened by the French ambassador.

‘The plan was for Inna Shevchenko, the leader of [the feminist activist group] Femen, and Agnieszka Kolek, the art curator, and Lars Vilks to discuss “Is it really worth risking your life for freedom of speech, should there really not be any limits to what we can say, write and draw?” Shevchenko had just started her talk when the shooting began.

What was Helle thinking as she sat under the table with Vilks, holding hands? There were some boxes with beer for the café. ‘Mr Vilks took out a beer and lifted it up and said, well Helle, if we have to stay much longer at least we have something to drink. I was just thinking to myself, “We are going to get out alive”.’

When they were allowed back into the main room, the police said they shouldn’t leave the venue. It was then that Helle noticed the slightly surreal sight of Agnieszka Kolek on the stage doing the Power Point presentation she had been due to give about the ‘Passion for Freedom’, an art exhibition she held in London last year. ‘Agnieszka got the idea: OK, we can’t leave the room so why not discuss freedom of speech?’

‘I’m shocked but I can’t say this attack was a complete surprise,’ Helle admits. ‘Of course if the security people had said look, it’s not wise, we can’t guarantee Mr Vilks’s safety or the audience’s safety, we would not have done so.’

‘But I think the reason for supporting Lars Vilks is that it is not only Lars Vilks we are supporting. He is defending all of society because if he cannot live out his right to freedom of speech then we do not really have, to its full extent, freedom of speech. So he is pointing his finger at why Islam is the only religion to be entitled to stick to this taboo that Islam cannot be criticised, the prophet cannot be depicted and all this?’

Some people say they should stop drawing cartoons. ‘If we should stop drawing cartoons, should we also stop having synagogues, should they be converted into something else? Should we ask the Jewish people to leave or are they leaving already because they rightly so fear for their safety?’

‘I have heard an awful lot of politicians saying an awful lot, but I have not heard many concrete suggestions as to what do we do about this problem. What do we do about the fact that we have a growing number of young Muslims in European countries who are so eager to meet death in paradise and think that jihad is the way, that we can expect so much more of this in the future?’

Will they continue their meetings?

‘Yes, of course.’​

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  • WTF

    We ban any organisation that promotes hate or carries out terrorists acts. By extension Judaism & Synagogues should not be banned as they are no different to Christianity & Churches as they DO NOT promote, teach, inspire or attract psycho paths bent on killing innocent people. Islam & Mosques are both guilty of inspiring & promoting those who would go out and kill others and is the primary source of cultural hate crimes today based on race or sex.

    • Damaris Tighe

      I’ve been reading about the treatment of women in the IS. First they had to wear a burka. Then they had to wear a long black robe under the burka & a double veil over their eyes. Even female doctors & nurses have to wear this garb whilst doing their job. Other women now have to stay at home. They can only leave with a male family member.

      It struck me that the IS, having eradicated all non-muslims & shiia from their territory, have also in effect erased the fifty percent of the population who aren’t male. Apologies for using a PC term, but what we are seeing is a group who can’t cope with ‘otherness’ of any kind. First they came for the infidels, then they came for the opposite s*x.

  • AJH1968

    They hate us simply because we exist, that we have contributed so significantly to civilization and human prosperity is an anathema to them (Especially those who advocate the
    Ptolemaic system; and do so proudly, and without shame). No amount of toadying, however well intentioned will ameliorate this simple cogent fact. For those blessedly naive individuals who see the world in lovely rose coloured hue; would do well to remember that a fool (however pc) and he’s head are soon parted.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Like CS Lewis I must confess a little bit of affection for the Ptolemaic system. The music of the spheres is so much more attractive than cold space.

      • AJH1968

        I loved he’s books and admire your affection for mystery and wonder.

      • sebastian2

        I like your comment. However, let’s not forget that the language of imagination isn’t necessarily that of fact. There’s a thought provoking distinction between “the music of the spheres” (a beautiful concept) and space’s lack of the air required for those inspiring sound waves.

        There’s a certain creed especially that would do well to learn from this, and separate fantasy from actuality.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Oh yes sebastian, I’m aware – as was CSL – that none of it exists or could do. But as you say, it’s a beautiful concept & a bit of wishful thinking on my part (as it was CSL’s, I’m sure).

          • sebastian2

            Nothing wrong with wishful thinking. If you could see my own rather bleak and remote surroundings now you, like me, would have wishful thinking for cider, decent cheese, a crisp apple, a joke book, and a medium size granary loaf. Wishful thinking’s cool with me.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Decent cheese is essential!

          • AJH1968

            What about dark matter? Unless studies have been abandoned due to the harm they might cause those who choose to be offended.
            Ps I don’t think they have, I am just being facetious.

          • Damaris Tighe

            As Sgt Schultz used to say in ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ (before your time I think), ‘I know nothZZING’ (about it).

          • AJH1968

            I think I used to watch re-runs with my Grandfather, but I do remeber Schultz (unforgettable).

          • Damaris Tighe

            It’s on ITV 4 late weekday afternoons. The only comedy that makes me heave with laughter every episode without exception. Schultzy was a triumph. The whole concept is hilarious.

        • Ambientereal

          But space may be filled with some other entity and the waves should not necessarily be sound-waves. In fact electromagnetic waves do propagate in outer space and modern physicists believe that something (even with geometrical properties) is filling that void.

          • AJH1968

            Dark energy and dark matter, the existance of which is revealed by gravitational lensing and its gravitational affect on visable matter: but it is hypothetical at this point in time, but fascinating nevertheless.

          • sebastian2

            It all gets ever stranger but fascinating either way.

    • global city

      and all in the name of fairy stories!

      • Gwangi

        Do you mean the religion of peace? Y’know, the one what believes an illiterate murderous warlord went to a cave and got told the Koran by an angel, then remembered it word for word and recited it to his scribes later one without a single error?
        That ‘perfect’ book the Koran which is in fact a pig’s ear of a book, an utter shambles, all over the place, worth about a D- for structure and organisation – and which is so perfect that Muslims rely on dubious hadiths for much of their Islamic guidance?
        Was Allah having an off day or something? And did he mean to include the bits about approving of slavery, how to castrate slaves, how killing infidels and atheists is recommended too, as is having several child wives? Oh dear…

        • global city

          Yes, that’s the one…though, when it comes to authenticity the other books are as based on reality as it is.

          • Gwangi

            Indeed. But most Christians and Jews these days do not read the bible or Torah literally – if they ever did – and Christians and Jews do not see the words in their books as being literally the holy word of God, or hero-worship a murderous warlord as a ‘perfect man’ as Muslims follow Mohammed (alleged prophet; proven killer).
            That is the issue here. And whenever Muslims kill people, the usual suspects come out with the usual lies: that these people are bad apples, not real Muslims and have misunderstood Islam and are not following the true Islam. In fact, of course, they are following the Koran to the letter and using it as a manual for living – and dying.
            The local mosque (and university and council) maintain the pretence that the Charlie Hebdo killings were ‘nothing to do with religion’!
            You couldn’t make it up (but they do!)

          • global city

            yup…but they are all still just stories, it is ironic that the worst stories of them ll are being played out in real life right now by culturally backward folk.

        • Dozens of people wrote down what they thought Mohammed said. It got so confusing that a warlord, as you say, took the different versions and pulled out his own version taken from them all. How anyone can take that seriously as a life style dictated by Allah is beyond me. I suppose the average Muslim doesn’t know that.

    • beelzebub

      ‘They hate us simply because we exist..’ Yes, and I think, especially for the young men, it is the ‘sexuality’ of the west which represents such a deep problem for them.

      • Jody Taylor

        My sister is a clinical psychologist in Australia. She has counselled soldiers returning from active duty in Afghanistan and the soldiers tell her, “the Afghani men aren’t interested in women at all, only the boys”!! What does that tell you about Muslim sexuality, repression, religion and shrouded females?

        • beelzebub

          Interesting, thank you. I have wondered about that sometimes. Makes sense.

    • Jody Taylor

      Absolutely apposite – spot on, well done!!!

  • thetrashheap

    There is complete denial about what we are up against:

    People should view this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyBBNQPPoXU

  • Vengeful Fruitcake

    If we refrain from all activities that we think might provoke Muslims we will quickly find that there are many more things that give them offence and that we cannot hope to please them except by submitting ourselves to Islam. We have to face up to the fact that Islam does not conduce to a pluralist society.

    • Guest

      No we don’t. Our great leaders have already begun surrendering our lands and laws, bringing them into step with Islamic principles. England isn’t becoming a pluralist society, Muslims are going to be a majority within our lifetime………… what are you going to do when Muslims are 20-30-40-50% of the population?

      France has to deploy it’s military on the streets to protect people from Muslims, they have already forced blasphemy laws on your media through threat of violence. Mass rape gangs, 24 hour terrorism.

      • mrs 1234

        Yes, it makes one wonder why our collective governments have been so keen on importing and protecting this misogynistic and backward culture to such an extent that whole areas of our cities and towns are now virtually 100% Muslim and they are ruled as mini-caliphates from Mosques that have readily accepted the influence of Wahabism and Deobandism. Both of which seek the supremacy of Islam in all things and all places and the spread of the international caliphate.

    • Grace Ironwood

      Total submission is the plan.

    • Gwangi

      Yes, but the problem is that the usual suspects – the useful eejits of multiculturalism have been pandering to anyone with a dark skin and a religion for decades, deferring to their dark and backward practices and vile values, so now Muslims expect appeasement and tolerance for their intolerance from their Western liberal hosts. Thank the so-called liberals of the West for that mess. We should never ever have surrendered our values to these barbarians.

  • Freeworld

    Should we finally submit to Islam in order to keep breath in our body the dilemma then will be Sunni or Shia the end game I’m afraid is the paradise and seven virgins that’s an awful lot of virgins and what do women get, we need to know.

    • Ivan Ewan

      Seventy virgins, I’m afraid, and young boys to pluck from the bushes as though they were pears – I am only paraphrasing. Of course, that’s the seventh heaven, so for those of us who aren’t sex maniacs, we could hang about in the first heaven, which is a desolate wasteland.

      A woman would get to stand in the corner while her husband runs around after the seventy. But considering what they did to her when she was a child on Earth, she might take that to be a mercy. Of course, Mohammad stated that most inhabitants of hell were women, so she might be able to handily dodge paradise entirely.

      Not really even worth living for is it? Not even worth saying the shahada for. Actually, saying the shahada might save your physical life, but you’ll end up being someone’s b**ch anyway. It’s your children they’re after, not you.

      • Alienwoman

        Seventy two virgins, to be exact, along with seventy two mansions. Free sex and riches, everything that is denied on Earth. This is a big incentive for sex starved, impoverished young men.

  • licjjs

    I read today that Obama still refuses to connect isis with islam and also refused to say that the 21 people beheaded on the shores of the Mediterranean in Libya were Christians, insisting on calling them Egyptians only. isis has as much right to call themselves muslims, followers of islam, as those on whom the President would confer that title. In fact, in koranic terms (the only terms that matter to ‘real’ muslims) isis could claim and do claim that it is they who are the ‘real’ muslims. President Obama is attempting to foist a vision of islam that is ‘acceptable’ to the west on an ideology that is political and expansionary before it is ‘religious’, like Prince Charming trying to force the glass slipper on the ugly sisters, and he is doing none of us a favour by doing so. It is as if we insisted that nazism, or at least the SS, was first and foremost a cult of ancient Nordic gods.

    • greggf

      “President Obama is attempting to foist a vision of islam that is ‘acceptable’ to the west on an ideology…..”

      He’s not alone.
      And, not all Germans were Nazis but all Germans eventually suffered for them.

    • Ivan Ewan

      And only the other week he was telling Christians to be ashamed of the history of cultural Christendom.

      Obama is batting for the other team. He even said he would in his f****g book!

      • Bubrub

        Well let’s also keep in mind that Obama is basically leading the charge in stopping/killing ISIS. So let’s be a little careful with claims that he is “batting for the other team”. His words are lacking, but his actions are stronger than just about every other world leader combined, in terms of actually killing Islamic terrorists.

        • Ivan Ewan

          It was Obama’s reckless wars on the established governments in Libya and Syria that enabled IS and other Islamist terror groups to openly thrive in the new power vacuum. He lost no time in backing the Muslim Brotherhood when it overthrew the Egyptian government, and when an even larger revolution ousted the MB, he still vocally supported them – even though they’d destroyed the Egyptian economy, been literally raping their political opponents, and revving up for genocide of the Copts by burning dozens of their churches.

          What, do you expect me to believe that he still doesn’t know about all that?

          • Bubrub

            Obama’s war on Syria? The fuck are you talking about. Assad gunned down a bunch of protesters which lead to chaos which lead to civil war. Obama did not have any war with Syria, unless you consider strong condemnation and successfully stopping Assad from using chemical weapons (not via force) to be “war”. Go do some reading.

            Backing the Muslim Brotherhood, in hindsight, looks dumb, but at the time it was about overthrowing a goddamn dictatorship, not a government. Unfortunately, the MB ended up being terrible. I’m not going to blame Obama for not seeing into the future, I’ll blame the MB for being terrible.

            Alot of his “support” of the MB when the General staged a coup was about not murdering protestors, which is what was happening. The MB was terrible no doubt, but to get rid of them, the military killed countless peaceful protesters in the process, and Obama criticizes that, as should we all.

            Even if everything you said was entirely true, he STILL had done more to fight ISIS than the rest of the world combined. So to criticize Obama and not every single other world leader that is doing less is just hypocrisy.

          • Ivan Ewan

            Let me address all your various idiotic points:

            1) it is a well-known fact that after Obama didn’t get his way with a direct war with Syria, his government started pushing weapons to the Free Syrian Army. They weren’t even very secretive about it. You’re being quite rude here, did I hurt your feelings in some way?

            2) Dictatorships are a form of government, “Bubrub”. When the dictatorships in question were eliminated, we got to see for ourselves why they were dictatorships in the first place – to keep their homegrown savages in check. Life is a little more subtle and complex than Star Wars, and the Islamists won, big-time.

            3) Well, it wasn’t exactly a coup, was it? More people were there to revolt than who voted for the MB in the general election. “Coup” was the propaganda term being bandied about by fans of Islamism and all the death, tyranny and barbarism that comes with it.

            4) “but to get rid of [the MB], military killed countless peaceful protesters in the process” They didn’t actually. Do you have any evidence whatsoever? Or are these protesters peaceful by al-Jazeera standards, ie., bloodthirsty Islamist jihadists?

            5) When you’re sticking up for Islamists the way you are, I don’t think you get to throw around terms like “hypocrisy”. The US administration was dragging its feet about attacking IS, by the way, and made a point of first seeking approval with Saudi Arabia and Iran (islamist), while ignoring Egypt and Israel (non-islamist).

          • Bubrub

            1) So you just admitted you were wrong, there was no war against Syria by Obama, as you originally claimed. Providing weapons is something, but it’s not war. So thanks for admitting you were originally wrong in your statement. I appreciate that you can admit you were wrong/lying.

            2) Okay, I guess you got me there on a semantic technicality. I meant, *legitimate* or *democratic* government, which a dictatorship is not. But I think you obviously knew my point and chose to setup a strawman anyway. Kinda rude. Either way, I have no love for the MB.

            3) It’s a coup when the military kicks out the democratically elected leader by force and puts him in prison, then assumes power. Even if he is a shitty leader, it is still a coup. There is almost no clearer example of a military coup then this. Not really up for debate. Now what IS up for debate is whether the coup was ultimately a good thing. Maybe it was, I don’t know, we’ll see. Obviously, I’m glad to see the MB gone. But a coup it certainly was.

            4. According to the NYTimes, they certainly did kill some peaceful protestors because they were camped out in tents on the streets and would not move. I don’t read Al-Jazeera because it is complete trash. Obviously you and I agree on that. Not sure why you are assuming I am some goddamn Al Jazeera jerkoff just because I’m not buying your anti-Obama tirade entirely. The NYTimes is a pretty damn good news source. (although I’m sure you can dig up some examples of them fucking up if you wanted to, but you could do that for ANY newspaper that is well established. if you can’t acknowledge that the NYTimes is generally a decent source for news, then this part of the discussion is dead.)

            5. I’m not sticking up for Islamists. You keep assuming I am because I disagreed with you about Obama. Let me be clear, Islamists disgust me. They are the enemy of a free, civil world.
            Yes, of COURSE the US was dragging its feet in the beginning. Why do you think that is? Whenever America get into an armed conflict, the world shits on them (sometimes for good reasons, sometimes not). So they are going to be hesitant to start up a new conflict. The important thing is, they did, BECAUSE of Obama and not despite him. Unlike other western leaders who had to be convinced an enticed to lend a hand, some of whom are and some who still aren’t.
            Working with Saudi Arabia to get rid of ISIS is brilliant strategically, do you not see that? We are convincing bad guys to fight bad guys! And it’s working! Saudi Arabia recently bombed ISIS, that is a giant strategic victory to get them that committed to the conflict. I don’t see a problem with NOT dragging Israel into another conflict. They have their hands full already. Honestly, wouldn’t you rather see Saudi Arabian soldiers risking their lives against ISIS than Israelis? And, by the way, Egypt has gotten involved with fighting ISIS too, you may not be aware of that.

          • Ivan Ewan

            1) it is war – it’s war by proxy, war by attempted regime change, and it’s a huge element of fourth-generational warfare. Which is something you would probably have to look up. You might know this stuff if you’d ever bothered to look into some niggling little historical hiccup called – “The Cold War”.

            2) No, a dictatorship can also be a legitimate government. It may not be a likeable or enjoyable government, but where do you derive the authority to decree the legitimacy of government types?

            3) The Egyptian military administered the coup de grace, but that is not a coup de tat, which is what the term “coup” refers to in English. I would ask that you refer to a dictionary, if you can find one.

            4) No, the NYT used to be a good news source. It is especially unreliable when it comes to war correspondence and affairs of the middle east. It doesn’t help that they rely on the Associated Press for news of this kind, and that institution has been deeply implicated in political bias in recent times. But if you want to ignore that, be my guest.

            5) You’re completely missing the point here. I’m not saying that Israel and Egypt were not asked to fight, I’m saying they were not asked for their opinion. Saudi Arabia and Iran and Turkey were the main countries that the USA checked with first – the USA asks the permission of Islamist-run countries to fight Islamists.

            And do you remember not so long ago when Obama put on a beige suit and declared he had no strategy for fighting IS? Well, they recently came up with a strategy. A state department official spokeswoman said on live TV recently, “We cannot kill our way out of this war,” – before declaring that giving potential terrorists better job opportunities was the key to winning the war in the long run.

            So the attitude of Obama’s America for warring against Islamists is to propose policy for gifting Islamists with well-paying jobs, and to ask the permission of Islamists whenever they want to fight other Islamists. Obama also stated recently that he/the USA is “not at war with Islam, we are at war with those who have perverted Islam.” So, he’s asked some Islamists whether the IS Islamists are authentic Islamists, or actually infidels in disguise.

          • Bubrub

            It’s too lengthy to keep on with this point by point back and forth. However, I will quickly address one point because it is easy. By the dictionary defintion of “coup”, what happened in Egypt was a coup. You should take your own advice about checking out a dictionary.

            Coup. noun
            “a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.”

            That is exactly what the military performed. You can nitpick over “de tat” or “de grace” but I used neither of those words. It is indeed a coup by the definition of “coup”.

            Anyway, with that easily settled, let’s sum it up. Is it truly your position that Obama is pro-Islamist? Yes he has, shall we say, given imperfect speeches recently where he has been too hesitant to link ISIS to Islam, and we all know that’s incorrect. But when you look at how many ISIS fighters he has killed, how many Afghanistani Taliban he has bombed, even killing Osama bin Laden himself, are you really going to believe that Obama is actually pro-Islamist? That he is “batting for the other team”? Again, considering that EVERY single major leader has done less, in action, than Obama, it seems your criticism is not proportional. Not even a little bit.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Under Obama’s leadership Sunni Islam has its own caliphate and it has done this through gaining ground in countries where we had been involved and this has created the exact conditions for such a group to thrive.

            I’m sorry I’m not seeing the US going balls out bombing ISIS – hear what Assad says about the US bombing campaign – it’s a pale imitation to the shock and awe campaign in Iraq. As Assad said, it simply isn’t effective and it’s nowhere near enough.

          • Cyril Sneer

            I think you need to look closer at Syria and the impact of US and her sunni arab allies have had on this conflict and in creating the conditions for ISIS to thrive.

            Take a look at the military map, see the FSA allied with Al Nusra aka AQ. Understand that the rebels in all their flavours have held territory in the North since the war started, not the south but the North. Now ask yourself how all these foreign jihadists could get into the country? Whose border do they cross? If you look at the territory they have held since the start you will see that they have been crossing the Turkish border literally unhindered. Turkey is a NATO member.

            For over a decade the US bombed and asset froze any terrorist group. Now Obama’s version of leading the charge is destroying a handful of trucks and some fighting positions… it’s hardly shock and awe. All the while ISIS continues to spread, and onto Libya, again the instability caused by our intervention has created the conditions for ISIS to gain ground.

            You need to take a serious hard look at this region and the results of our involvement there.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Some good points.
            It appears that all sides in Egypt are rapists.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Obama has had far too much to do with the Brotherhood in their many guises to ever be trusted again.

            Obama and Francis
            What a disaster.

          • Robbydot1

            The MB have been designated a terrorist group by the UAE, who should know! Yet obarma has them in the Whitehouse?

        • Grace Ironwood

          The only area where he’s been doing ok has been drones.

          The world will have to wait for another leader to fight IS

    • Dr. Heath

      At least the World’s Greatest Ever Thinker didn’t insist that we consider this atrocity as an example of ‘workplace violence’. I don’t know what his views on the Nazis are. Has he ever said that Nazi-ism was nothing to do with Germans? He’d get a lot of stick [from contemporary Germans, in fact] if he did.

  • Rowland Nelken

    How many more people will follow the ridiculous line that Obama is taking this week, namely, that ISIS is not Islamic. OK, the guy is busy, but he must have some ‘experts’ who have the time to read ISIS websites. Their every action, be it a kidnap, exiling, enslaving or beheading is backed up (sanctified?) by a blizzard of Koranic and Hadithic quotes.

    I cannot believe that politicians who spout this ‘Islam is peaceful’ stuff actually believe what they are saying. Presumably it is an expedient to try and keep Muslims ‘on board’ and prevent a possible violent rift between Muslim and infidel citizens.

    Ultimately they will have to come to terms with the fact that, although in practice, almost all Jews, even the Ultra Orthodox, ignore the wacky and barbaric chunks of the Torah, and the majority of Christians have junked Jesus’ warnings of eternal Hellfire for unbelievers, most Muslims still revere their dangerous old Koran and Hadiths. Moreover, a significant minority are only too keen to live by the letter of the most obvious take on that primitive old stuff.

    So – what to do? Jewish and Christian clerics seem to have drianed much of the poison from their foundation texts by waffling on about ‘context’ and ‘allegory’, or even ‘that was then but this is now’.

    Can Muslims do the same? Or must we simply steel ourselves to the fact that the current phase of militant islam will only burn itself out, when, like Nazism and Marxist – Leninism, it is seen, universally, only to bring misery, poverty and death.

    • Bonkim

      Depends on whether the Holy books are the creation of God or simply ever changing versions scripted by man.

  • Bonkim

    Absurd comparison.

  • Cymrugel

    I remember talking to a secular Egyptian about all this some years back.

    He was mainly focused on the USA as he lived there half the year.

    His explanation for islamist hatred of America was simple.

    He said it was nothing to do with Israel, US foreign policy or anything else.

    His view was that they hate the west in general and the USA in particular because they feel; muslims should rule the world and they don’t; that Muslims should be the most successful and powerful; and they aren’t ; that non muslims are immoral; and should be ashamed of themselves and not only are they not ashamed but are in actual fact quite happy with their lives.

    He felt it was this last that is the clincher; if you think you are morally superior to others and they not only do not agree but their behaviour shows they really don’t care what you think it really sticks in the throat.

    There is nothing that will drive a bigot to fury more than not only not responding to his lecture, but the obvious fact that you are not even listening to him.

    Hence the violence.

    • JSC

      100% agreed, your Egyptian friend is very astute.

      Islamic supremacist ideology is creating these terror cells. Its philosophy, when fully assimilated, appears to closely resemble psychopathy in that out-group members are viewed as non-human animals or worse – objects of the devil to be exterminated without pity.

      • Cymrugel

        There is also a high level of sexual frustration.
        If you regard women as basically breeding chattel who should be kept in isolation and are the in a country surrounded by pleasant attractive young woman who assume they are entitled to do as they please it must be quite alarming.
        Particularly when you assume they are sexually available and they give you the blow off.
        Not only whores, but ones who do not know their place!

        • JSC

          “Islamic Supremacist/Inferiority Complex Induced Psychopathy”. Someone needs to get that in the next edition of the DSM!

          • Jody Taylor


        • Penny

          I tend to agree, Cymrugel. Women are both desired and disliked. I doubt all arranged/forced marriages are happy either.

          It also seems to be the case that much of what we might class as (broadly) “creative” is denied. Music, the arts, drama, etc are forbidden. Recreational sport doesn’t seem to be high on the agenda either – especially for women – and there are no casual boy-girl relationships. In short, for many there is no lighter side of life to be had, and these lighter/creative pursuits are, I think, a very real need for human beings. They add a necessary balance for good mental health. Add on to this the ever-watchful eyes of the community, which limits your freedom to do as you please for fear your actions will be relayed to your family and I think you have a very repressive lifestyle.

          I’ve watched a few videos of Palestinian would-be or failed suicide bombers and what I’ve written above seemed evident: their reasons for becoming suicide bombers was an escape to Paradise where what is denied on earth becomes available. In light of your comment about the secular Egyptian, all things denied to these young Palestinian men were available just miles down the road in Israel.

          • cba

            Everything everyone has said above, plus… sleep deprivation. Waking up in the middle of the night every night to pray has to have an effect as well.

          • Jody Taylor

            Now you go too far!

          • hjbhk

            The forbidding of the arts is a recent development, actually. Islam has a long history of art, and pictures of Mohammed in particular.

        • Gwangi

          Yes, and a high level of older males using younger males and boys as surrogate women too – apparently that’s expected if you go and train as a suicide bomber jihadist. Your trainer expects his oats in the sleeping bag, inshallah…

          • Dukeofplazatoro

            I think what the above posts are touching on is the sheer hypocrisy of many of these people. While being judgemental of us for enjoying a drink, eating bacon sandwiches or having what we would regard as normal relationships, they come over as being a bit thick and being obsessed with sex and being unable to deal with it. Thus Rotherham, Rochdale, Oxford, the captured Yazidi and Nigerian women, and who knows where else. Older mullahs rogering their jihadist recruits would be par for the course, and of course these older mullahs have the opportunity to give them them the religious justification they need for their behaviour while they are doing it.

            And before anyone replies with “tu quoque” arguments, remember what Christ had to say about hypocrisy

          • Gwangi

            Watch the film FOUR LIONS to see how inadequate and secksually frustrated your typical homegrown suicide bomber really is. And often these are people who have in the past drunk alcohol, visited local clubs, been spurned by even the roughest slappperrs and thus who feel hurt. They transfer their personal feelings of inadequacy and rejection to the entire Muslim ‘ummah’ and thus want to wreak revenge on the West – the system whose people are free to see them for the wallies and inadequate losers they are.

            Yep, they can’t deal with it. So they retreat into the Koranic manual for living, where they can just join the dots, not think at all, and instead be an Islamo-robot following tracks already laid. Of course, we in the West have been SO stupid in our multiculti diversity-worship that we have not only allowed but encouraged these ethnic and religious enclaves to develop, and to pander to anyone with a dark skin and a religion – we (our media, politicians, education system) have created a context which appeases and excuses the most vile values of Islam and has encouraged our enemies to hate us.
            There is blood on many hands – of the local vicar who approves of the local mosque because it’s better than atheists and secularists being in charge, all teachers who promote hatred of Israel (AKA Jews) and make excuses for the Islamofascist Palestinians, our media who are so biased now against Israel and constantly side with Muslims. The list goes on – and so does the Islamokilling.
            We have been betrayed by the establishment of our country – and they have blood dripping from their hands now in bucketfuls, but still will not change or admit their errors.

            No to multiculturalism and tolerance of vile intolerance; Yes to integration and forcing everyone to abide by the same values. And yes, I do mean ‘force’ not just gently encourage. Integrate or leave (or get arrested as a traitor inciting hatred and violence, then prison for 10 years minimum).
            Oh and we now need to monitor secretly all activity in schools, universities and mosques – isn’t that what MI5 is for?

          • Jody Taylor

            This conforms with my own comments on this article, only it’s not suicide bombers but ordinary Muslim males.

        • Jody Taylor

          It’s actually “pleasant, attractive young” men which are the object of much Muslim male interest.

          Yes; see my comments about the reports from our Australian soldiers returning from the Afghani theatre of war and their frequent observations about the local men being only interested in boys!

      • Damaris Tighe

        Which makes it the modern version of n*zism. Master Race mutates into Master Religion.

        • Gwangi

          Islamofascism, yes. Let’s say what we see eh? If these people were white and non-religious we’d call them fascists and neo-nazis.
          For some crazy reason, so-called liberals instead constantly make excuse for any fascist who happens to have a dark skin and a minority religion – a stance which is, literally, racist as they would not make the same excuses if a white atheist or even a white CofE supporter expressed similar views.
          The hypocrisy is as stark as it is barking and self-defeating.

    • Damaris Tighe

      I’m sure your friend is right. I’m reminded of videos of muslim preachers, some terrorist leaders like Bin Laden, some jihadis born in the west. I’ve noticed that they all self-righteously wag their fingers at us. It has become quite a jihadist signature.

      • WTF

        They’d get the finger from me all right but I wouldn’t be wagging it !

        • Damaris Tighe

          They get two fingers from me.

          • WTF

            My wifes American, so I’ll stick with the US version this time around.

          • sebastian2

            Four from me. Both hands.

          • Damaris Tighe

            If it were possible I’d use my toes as well.

      • Alienwoman

        Why do the West join them by wagging their self righteous finger at Israel, when they are battling Jihadists?

        • Damaris Tighe


        • sebastian2

          Because that’s easy. Israel isn’t perturbed by wagging fingers, so the self-righteous can wag with impunity knowing they won’t be killed. That said, I have great difficulties in fathoming the “logic” of the self-righteous anti-Israel brigade anyway. They are very strange, confused people.

    • Dr. Heath

      Vadim Shtepa, a Ukrainian blogger and journalist, has identified the same processes at work in Russia, where contempt for flabby, hedonistic westerners is the closest thing to the official ideology of Putin World. Eurasianism, like Islamism, engages in the preposterous but threatening glorification of an allegedly superior segment of humanity [Russians/Muslims] and, what’s worse, both claim to enjoy the full support of the cosmos’s Supreme Being. Each, as well as hating the West for its refusal either to acknowledge the utter superiority of the Third Rome/Daar al-Islam or to take them seriously, wants revenge for the part they imagine we’ve played in the crumbling of their empires.

      • Grace Ironwood

        An interesting point you made there.
        There is something to be found in the juxtaposition of their respective self-pity/rage.

        • Dr. Heath

          Thanks. One vast difference, of course, is that Putinism is the magnification of Putin’s own Soviet-era paranoid hatred, xenophobia and totalitarian instincts through the agency of the Russian secret police, military and media. Islamism is driven by a much older, global sense of rage and self-pity. In Putin World, one man, however cynical his motives in doing so, largely inspires the whole circus. Islamism is more of a genuine mass movement.

          I don’t think an accurate picture of Putinism will be drawn until his army of supporters and increasingly less amusing cheerleaders [the trollers, the anti-West politicians like Orband and Le Pen, the anti-NATO and anti-EU obsessives] have either departed the scene or shut up. Putinism is more a conundrum for psycho-analysts than it is for sociologists trying to figure out, in peace and quiet, just what post-Soviet Russia comprises.

          • Gwangi

            Nope – all that was in Russian culture well before Communism. The way that ideology played out in Russia just magnified traits already there – something most people never realise, esp in the USA.
            I agree though that in Russia it all starts and ends with Putin – and Russians like him because he has given them back their pride with pseudo-memories of Cold War might, usually of the military type. However, their economy is still fugged, and utterly reliant on oil and gas. One day, the Russians will realise Putin is a fraud – a paranoid puppet master – and he’ll get killed, I am sure.
            Islamism is a movement much worse than any tip-pot Stalin-fan dictator to the East.

          • Dr. Heath

            I agree on both scores.

            Vox pop interviews with the average Ivan/Lyuba outside a rural shack [perhaps within sight of one of Moscow’s shiny new skyscrapers] produce sincere, if identi-kit, answers. ‘Putin is respected and feared and he’s made Russia important once again’.

            Today’s news has been reporting on the humanitarian crisis in Debaltseve. It was a reminder of what the proxy annexation of territory by Putin is bound to deliver to his victims. Russia itself is a soft of slow-burning humanitarian crisis. No true rule of law. The squandering of vast natural resources. Kleptocracy. Revenge-seeking and rampant cruelty and expropriation of private property whenever and wherever this suits the mafiosi and the drunkards and thugs. A sort of Debaltseve but with the roofs still [just] on the shacks.

      • Gwangi

        Boorish ism, Good ole Russian Xenophobia, and conservative values and support for and from the weird Orthodox Russian Church.
        The Holy Trinity of St Putin the deranged. He cannot let go because if he does, even a bit, the whole desk of cards will crash down and he’ll be overthrown.

    • Grace Ironwood

      The great Bernard Lewis fleshes it out historically, but humiliation at the success of the west is the nub.

    • Gwangi

      Of course they envy us. Islam ossified in the 11th century and has achieved nothing since. No jihadist even realises the irony when they use inventions such as TV, guns, bombs, cars etc ALL invented by white men from the West! LOL! What did Muslims invent? One woman tents. Wow…

      • Hironimous Nostril

        No religion has actually achieved anything at all. We progressed despite religion, not because of it.

    • little islander

      Some people do enjoy and get taken in by such pandering of foreigners to their vanities. And it’s not just the white westerners. I know one Asian people who love similar praises about their people or country and you must broach no disapproval if you want to be their friend. So far I have met only an American who recognized such talk for what it is and frowned on it. I learned a very good lesson from him.

      • Betty4440

        what I fail to understand. is if these people no matter what country they come from. they want us to praise their country. if they think their country is so grand and wonderful what in the world are they in the west for? can some one answer this please.

        • little islander

          I don’t know any such person you had in your mind. Do you?

      • Cymrugel

        I am unsure what you are implying – presumably that the man in question was pandering to prejudice.
        Quite the contrary.
        He left Egypt because he was sick of his Coptic wife being pressured to convert, being harassed in the street and of the countries oppressive culture.
        He himself is a cultural Muslim who is not religious and had to conceal his true beliefs for fear of violence.
        He moved to the USA to be free.
        Standing up for ones culture when that culture is based on violence and hatred is not admirable it is contemptible.

        • little islander

          He is pandering to the ‘vanities’ of his newly adopted country, the whites in this case, and at the same time condemning the country and the people he left behind. He reminds me of President Chiang Kai Shek’s wife who claimed she is Asian outside but white inside, and also an acquaintance who moved to the USA proudly telling anyone who cared to listen she’s a banana. What your friend said about Moslems may be true for some, a minority at best. But he’s now your friend. Because he said what you liked to hear?

          • Cymrugel

            No he isn’t.
            There isn’t some law of nature that says an Egyptian must be muslim, must be racist, must keep women living as second class citizens or hate religious minorities.
            He has plenty of criticisms of US Society, but he appreciates the fact that his wife can walk the streets without living in fear and that he does not have to weigh every word he says.
            He is a person who decided to move because his wife was being harassed – as were her whole family and he was expected to sign up to a bill of goods that required him to support oppressive religious and cultural attitudes that he did not share.
            Your attitude is extremely racist. The racism of low expectations.
            It is not a necessary part of the culture to be reaction arty narrow minded and booted in Egypt, any more than having “no Irish no Blacks ” signs was a vital part of British culture in the 1950s.
            To expect him to live under oppression and accept it as if not doing so is being unpatriotic or “betraying” his culture condemns millions of people like him in developing countries to lives of misery.
            Islam needs to reform. If it cannot or will not do so it will end up in the dustbin of history. Those who want to love freely will not put up with this nonsense forever.

    • Uncle Brian

      John le Carré shines a light on the subject in this line of dialogue from The Little Drummer Girl, published in 1983. The speaker is Khalil, a Palestinian terrorist living in Germany:

      “Why do we have no Palestinians in the Pentagon? In the State Department? Why are we not yet running the New York Times, Wall Street, the CIA? Why are we not making Hollywood movies about our great struggle, getting ourselves elected Mayor of New York, head of the Supreme Court? What is wrong with us, Tayeh? Why are we without enterprise? It is not enough that our people become doctors, scientists, schoolmasters. Why do we not run America as well? Is it because of this that we have to use bombs and machine guns?”

    • Jody Taylor

      A well-known Australian psychiatrist (Tanveer Ahmed) has argued for quite some time, very publicly through the media (his family is from Pakistan, but he was born in Australia) that Muslims feel great shame and this is why they behave as they do; it melds perfectly with what Cymrugel has just written above. I cannot believe how similar these argument are. If many people are saying the same thing and do not actually know each other you can make a safe bet people are on to something powerful and truthful.

  • wudyermucuss

    These fascist murderers,inspired,quite clearly,despite Obama’s agitprop,by Islam,will not stop.
    They are at war with us.

  • Peter Stroud

    Extreme Islamism is Naziism, with paradise attached.

    • Ivan Ewan

      Nazism did have a kind of paradise mentality attached – the Good German Family as the ultimate expression of what happiness is in the Nazi context.

      In this regard, Nazism is morally superior to Islam, which depicts the family as a rather hateful but necessary arrangement, one mired in common distrust, and which depicts paradise as an eternal whorehouse.

  • trace9
  • Hugh Vincelette

    A General recently said “How do you handle an enemy that looks down the barrel of your gun and sees paradise?” We would do well to send great numbers of these jihadists to paradise asap.

    • WTF

      You don’t, you just blow them away and look for the next one !

  • sebastian2

    A survivor of the Copenhagen attack speaks: ‘If we should stop drawing cartoons, should we also stop having synagogues?’ Well, the answer is “Yes.” if you believe that “causing offence” (or “hurt” as the C of E might call it) is grounds for banning something. Take “offence” enough and the list of banned topics becomes practically endless.

    We have, these days, a debilitating compact between the world’s most readily offended – a creed almost orgasmic over bruised sentiments – and a society that cowers with guilt at a possibly demeaning observation or statement. The 1999 Macpherson Report handed a loaded magazine to serial offence takers by recommending that a racist incident be defined as “any incident which is perceived to be racist by the victim or any other person, and reported, recorded, and investigated as such.” For “racism” read “islamophobia”. Anything, therefore, to be deemed by the “victim” as one or other of these …. is. Why? Because the “victim” says so.

    Well, that’s nice. That’s convenient. Mohammedans who thrive on creative “victimhood” and concocted “insults” to their alleged prophet have been granted open season. Anything and everything is now a target. Islamophobia all around us. And those that cower – those beguiled by Macpherson tosh – have pinned “Keep Kicking Me” to their backs: something mohammedans are triumphantly euphoric to do.

    Cartoons offend; synagogues offend; Tom Holland “offended” and the BBC withdrew. Geert Wilders? Banned. Pork? taken off the menu. Salman Rushdie? Under a death sentence. Robert Spencer? Excluded. Sensible reservations about the so called prophet’s character and behaviour? Blasphemous and therefore banned. It’s offensively islamaphobin isn’t it? Dogs in mohammedan driven taxis? Haram and should be stopped – it’s “islamophobic” to object. And so it goes on. The permitted kicking.

    Isn’t it about time we advised these people that kicking isn’t polite? It’s bad manners; and stern lessons in etiquette are about to begin. You want “kicking”? Taste this!

    • tamimisledus

      Well targeted post. Thanks for the reminder of the iniquities of the Macpherson report. Pure gold.

      • sebastian2

        That Report was well intentioned but utterly foolish and naive. “Racism” became not a matter of sensible and commonly agreed fact, but one of subjective and often calculated and exploitative invention. This has caused no end of trouble.

  • WTF

    To be perfectly frank, I’m sick and tired as well as being grossly offended by some papers today like the Daily Mail and others who for nothing more than monetary gain seem to delight in a gore-fest of barbaric behaviour publishing chapter and verse of three Syrian men being beaten to death by feral rabid dogs of the Islamic faith.

    At least Charlie Hepdo had comedic lampooning of this vicious cult but the Daily Mails latest article just gives oxygen to the barbaric islamic jihadists instead of having the courage to stand up to them. I’d ask the editor of the DM, why not go the whole hog and insert live action ‘snuff’ videos so we can all see the horrors of Islam at its worst, it will sell even more of your papers.

    It says something that main stream media can salivate over all the paper sales its getting over other peoples deaths but refuses to report the truths on the most evil of all religions we have ever seen since the middle ages and even surpasses them. Just why is it more important to see the gratuitous horror on our front pages instead of laying out chapter and verse just why Islam is the most evil of all religions ever created. Its founder was a psychopathic vicious war lord who had no empathy, he was a pedophile born in hell and became the worst role model ever followed by the uneducated masses !

    • saffrin

      I know what you mean. Still, it isn’t as bad as the MSM’s coverage of the Paris travelers attempts to get on a train.
      I ask myself, would our propaganda machine really give a f… if the said traveler had been a white man.

      Racism in our media.

      • WTF

        Racism and Bigotry is a human trait that is very difficult to quantify accurately and the left establishment and MSM are clueless over what it is or isn’t. Generally they are very biased against the white majority but cherry pick what they consider to be a racist act purely to fit their twisted agenda.

        If a hetero-sexual person makes a harmless joke against a gay person, they’ll be labelled a bigot without any contextualization or even finding out if the gay person was offended. In my group of friends we have a gay couple who are referred to as the “gay boys” in a non bigoted manner and they have no issue with it as it like an identification tag and they take it in good heart.

        Then we have the situation where a gay person might criticizes Islam or a Muslim and immediately they´ll be labelled a racist or suffering from Islamophobia despite the word meaning an irrational fear of Islam when the whole freaking world knows Islam is inspiring the deaths of thousands at this very instant.

        I have a close Indian friend who refers to me as a ‘snowflake’ and I counter by calling him an “asian bas****”, but its all in good fun, theres certainly no malice and I’d love to set up one of these left wing wan**** and see their reaction if we did this in their presence. Firstly, they wouldn’t understand what “snowflake” meant but they would certainly try and report me to plod for a race hate crime, of that I´m sure.

        We’ve seen kids in a playground get a bit too over excited as kids do and start name calling each other. Its what kids do and have done for decades if not centuries. In come the dysfunctional thought police and the kid who was a bit fat and retaliated because a Pakistani kid goaded him on his size retaliates with calling him that 4 letter non racist word that describes his ethnicity. Now we have a white kid feeling victimised because he’s the only one being picked on by those control freaks in charge and in all likelihood he is now becoming racist due to their dumb intervention and inverse discrimination.

        In summary, the establishment, the left wing control freaks and the MSM are lazy, sloppy, they can’t be bothered to contextualize human behavior & interaction and they more than anyone else have caused more racial divisions in the country than the odd BNP member. They are one of the main reason we have all these divisions in the country as they created them in the first place.

  • global city

    that is the logic of ‘avoiding offence’…they just up the ratchet to the next aspect of their intolerance and demand action in order to ‘avoid offence’. Like the Mafia used to do when demanding ‘protection money’.

    We will only be able to protect ourselves when we see off the new euro-elite who have taken over our establishment.

  • hockeydog

    Please explain to me why deportation is not a treated as a viable solution? These violent events did not happen before the muslims showed up. Here they are and they bring with them violence and barbarity with no will to integrate. I see no other choice.

  • Carl Pilk

    I try to tell my unconvinced friends that as Hitchens pointed out, if you defer to the Islamicist’s insane upside-down world, the list will not get shorter, but longer. In my own country, Canada, Sharia law was within a hair’s breath of becoming law (!!) because of the polite and deferential nature of Canadians, and the wolf-in-sheep’s clothing of Islamists. This is a vile and odious cancer which must be met with firm resistance. I don’t know about all of you, but I am a tolerant humanist who has had enough! Enough! No more capitulation to Islam-o-Creep!

    • Kasperlos

      FYI, The first Sharia law court in Texas, of all states, has been approved. The docile and servile native inhabitants who have been politically corrected just don’t know what they’re losing and what they’re about to get. So, it’s back to the 7th century. Historians will later write about the great takeover without a shot being fired. You can’t make this insane era we are living under up!

  • Bubrub

    I just put together a new religion where it is forbidden to portray *person*. I came up with a super sensible explanation, such as, “*person* is really holy to my religion and it’s really bad to portray *person* in any way whatsoever.” I gathered lots of people to my religion because my religion is awesome and super reasonable. Now, every time a TV station or paper or magazine dare to have any portrayal of *person*, there is a small (but not THAT small) percent chance that one of my “disaffected” followers will get so angry over such blasphemy that they kill people involved. Then there is a much less small percentage of my followers who will support such violent defense of my religion, or at least see it as somewhat justified, but who are not actually violent themselves. Then a rather large percentage of my followers who will at least agree that maybe violence is bad, but still, it’s better to just not have such portrayals exist, that it’s a better world where everyone follows this rule of my religion even if they don’t follow my religion.

    I am really reasonable, my religion is really reasonable, and you should respect my religion, essentially by following it or cowing to it. If you refuse, you are a super duper bigot.

  • Kasperlos

    Politicians say many things with hot air as the result. Recall, these are many of the same politicians, political parties who, without asking the natives, brought in hundreds of thousands of those young Muslims in the first place. They aren’t interested in solving ‘your’ problem, but in self presevation, for their careers. I’m stunned people still don’t understand this. Until the masses wake up, we’ll be reading more of the same stuff. Solving the problems lies in the hands of the voters who should have at their own interest that of their families and their country. Instead the politicians of the tiny Denmark sought to deal with global problems by importing them. And now folks are surprised that there are problems on their doorstep!

  • Coleridge1

    Islam and liberal-democracy are simply incompatible. Muslims who seek to live in peace in the free Western world must openly and unequivocally renounce the race-hatred and intolerance that exists in sharia and in the Koran.

  • knave27

    This is what passes as “conservative” opinion in the UK now. Apparently freedom of speech cannot find better proponents than a bunch of degenerate, decadent leftists who spent their entire lives slandering the pillars of European heritage and culture, while at the same time by demonizing Islam they became enablers of the neocon psychopaths and the western liberal elite for more wars in the Middle East and served the agenda of the eradication of all religion.

    • Grace Ironwood

      Neocon war mongers ?
      More power to their arms !

      • knave27

        Oh look another chickenhawk.

        • zoid

          does that make you a chickensh1t then?

          • knave27

            That would be the Piss-raelis running in terror from air raid sirens when there’s no reason at all.

  • Simmer

    http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/02/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ A really interesting article about isis ideology, it may explain Obama’s avoidance of directly pointing to Islam. If this is correct they think it’s the end of days and want the nations of the world to ‘declare war on Islam’, Obama may be just trying to avoid the ISIS end of days narrative.

    I also just found out that the muslim Isa (jesus) is expected to come down and convert everyone (i.e. Jews and Christians) to Islam (by the sword, natch) and plays a supporting role to the Islamic Madhi (saviour). they basically nicked Christian end of times prophecy and inverted it. So when they say Jesus is a respected prophet of Islam it’s probably worthwhile noting exactly what they mean by that.

    In regards to the article, this was a tragic, horrific crime and I applaud those that carry on speaking out and who won’t be cowed. The attacks on Jews is appalling, not only the terror attacks but the casual prejudice you hear from muslims ALL THE TIME about Jewish people.

  • Liberanos

    Worse that the violence apologists are those who actually demand respect for islam, instead of the anger, shame and embarrassment these continuing koranic executions should elicit.

  • Tim Reed

    “And then the security guards, the Swedish security guards — because of course we always have a heavy set-up, people from Danish intelligence services, Swedish intelligence services and armed police.”

    This sentence alone tells the story of what we’ve allowed ourselves to become here in the West, even if many of us have been despondent but furious about the complicity of our political class, and much of the media, in facilitating this situation.

    All of this, merely to protect an artist. It beggars belief, especially as none of this really surprises us any more.

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    • justejudexultionis

      Islamic spam. Is it advertising an Islamic Pakistani mass paedophile rape service in Rotherham or Rochdale by any chance?

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet

    Perhaps I’ll start a new religion based 100% on Nazi ideology but instead of the Fuhrer we’ll have some bonkers sky pixie stories to give it a beardy, rolling eyed authenticity and by calling the leaders ‘clerics’ they will be absolved from any need to adhere to common human decency, as our book will sanction violent misogyny, homophobia and hatred of all other doctrines.
    Pretty sure we’ll be able to get government funding and promotion, our own publicly funded schools, and after a few of our madder followers commit some nice terrorist attacks, millions thrown at us to “prevent” us doing it again.

  • pobinr

    Unless something changes then in 40 years time non Muslims are finished.
    How Islam spreads around the world > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_16uxgByVE

  • justsomeone

    I think most people haven’t yet realized these people cannot be appeased. It’s an assault on our way of life. The more we retreat, the more they’ll advance.
    Some day they’ll complain that no shop should sell alcohol – or bacon – near a Mosque. Anywhere near a Mosque. A thousand yards perhaps.
    I gather Erdogan is working towards having such laws in Turkey.
    If we back down (because we don’t wish to offend them), they’ll argue that restaurants and pubs serving alcohol in areas Muslims live, tempt Muslims and have to stop serving alcohol. Of course, Muslims live in most places and there are Mosques everywhere. Again, some will argue that it’s us who are infringing on their rights and offending them. This will never end.

  • saffrin

    Better to close the mosques.
    Muslims have no intention of integrating.

    • WTF

      They ban terrorist organisations so why not !

  • rodger the dodger

    I reckon European politicians would be secretly pleased if the Jewish populations upped and left for Israel. I think the calculation would be “Well, that removes part of the reason for terrorist attacks – job done”.

    • WTF

      Sadly, that does seem to be Camerons game plan, let others solve the problem for him while he does nothing himself. However, as you pointed out, its only a small part of the problem.

  • WTF

    Here we go, another day and another cop out by the MSM in the Daily Mail blaming internet giants and Twitter for assisting in radicalising three dumb Muslim girls who decided to join ISIS. Its like saying we should have banned hatchets or big knives and Lee Rigby wouldn’t have been be-headed by those Islamic terrorists.

    As far as these girls are concerned, leave them over there, let them get married off to some rapist or even killed, I don’t care as perhaps a salutary lesson learned here might wake up the Muslim community to do something about the problems in their midst. They are the ones who need a mindset shift and if their own are hurt or killed just as those 1400 white girls in Rotherham were hurt, maybe it will focus their attention a bit more.

    We’ve had terrorists before the Internet in the IRA, Mau-Mau, Bader Meinhoff, Red Brigade and many more around the globe and the lack of twitter didn’t hamper them. Its time the authorities got their heads out from where the sun don’t shine (Cameron et al) and wake up everyone to where the real threat is. Other forms of radicalisation as in Mosques or Anjem Chowdary are ever present and if its not Twitter as a conduit, it could be FB or even the Royal Mail to pass radical stuff around.

    This Jihadist movement is spawned from the teachings of Islam and that is the core problem and not the wide variety of communication channels. The Mail expounds Freedom of the Press in a separate article but then blames the communication channel of the masses, talk about hypocrisy !.

    • sebastian2

      The most fundamentalist version of mohammedism (the “real islam” by the way) was when the alleged prophet was alive and spreading his deceit by the sword. In those days they didn’t even have a decent postal service – but that lack didn’t stop them.

      It IS the ideology; and it’s called islam. And we have to fight it.

  • pobinr

    500 people went to the killer’s funeral. I wonder where their loyalties lie?

  • WorthSayingAgain

    How many synagogs (sic) are there in the middle east outside of Israel? How many are there in Pakistan? It’s already happened.

  • Thaddeus lovelock

    They want us to submit, that is after all, what Islam means.