Matthew Parris

Yes or no, I’ll never feel the same about the Scots

Most English people I know wanted Scotland to stay, but only if the Scots themselves really want to

20 September 2014

9:00 AM

20 September 2014

9:00 AM

I doubt I’m alone among English readers of this magazine in having felt uncomfortable with our last issue. ‘Please stay with us’ was a plea I found faintly offensive to us English. Not only did it have a plaintive ring, but there seemed to be something grovelling, almost self-abasing, in the pitch. Why beg? A great many Scots have wanted to leave the Union; and by arranging a referendum Westminster has asked Scotland to make up her mind. Let her, then. When did England become a petitioner in this affair?

‘Please stay’ implied that the Scots were minded to go and we were pleading with them to relent of their intention. Yet I haven’t thought of this referendum as a bid to change Scotland’s mind, but as an exercise to discover a nation’s wishes. Any moment now, we shall know what these were.

Within a short time of the publication of this issue, a ‘yes’ or a ‘no’ will be announced. If the verdict is for separation then so be it. England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have made it very clear that Scotland was welcome in the Union; but in the event the Scots would have decided to leave. That’s their prerogative. Now the terms of the divorce must be agreed.

In this negotiation, we in the rest of the UK would have to try not to be vindictive, and to be as fair and helpful as we reasonably can; but we won’t owe Scotland anything; we won’t any longer be trying to persuade her of anything; and we won’t be pleading with her any more. I would look forward to the honesty and the straight-talking with which we could approach this negotiation. We should be treading on eggshells no longer.

But if the result is a ‘no’ and Scotland decides — perhaps by quite a narrow margin — to stay, I think it’s important the rest of the Union is not thereafter infected by some misplaced sense of gratitude. I hope there will not be a special ‘Oh thank you, Scotland!’ issue of The Spectator. Scotland will not have done the rest of us a favour, and should not be given to believe the rest of the Union owes her gratitude, or anything else, in return.


Wiser heads in the Better Together campaign have always allowed that Scotland could manage perfectly well as an independent country. Perhaps the rest of Union should remind ourselves that we could too. Instead, behaving as though we all faced doom, leading politicians in the three main Westminster parties — intent more on saving their own skins than in leaving Scotland to decide — began to panic when it seemed possible Scots might give the wrong answer. Dignity was cast aside, and many hostages to fortune offered, in a scramble to talk Scots out of their possible decision to leave.

With all respect to my senior Spectator colleagues (and pace the almost humiliating desperation in the tone of our ‘please stay’ anthology), I have not found that this sense of panicky impending loss has found much echo among many of my fellow English outside the worlds of politics and journalism. Almost all the voices raised for the ‘no’ campaign in England with any real passion have come either from the kind of Englishman who hunts, sails or skis in the Highlands and Islands, or from talented Scots who have migrated south in search of a larger arena for their talents. This is a group well-represented among the commanding heights of British journalism and politics, and a distinctive and distinguished demographic. But it is not, I’m afraid, a representative one; nor does it carry the force of numbers.

Most English people I speak to have seemed rather relaxed about the referendum, and many alienated by all the fuss. Most would feel a little hurt to be rejected, but few have been having sleepless nights. A comfortable majority have had a preference — though a mild one — for Scotland to stay, but only if that’s what Scots themselves really want. ‘Well it’s up to them’ would be typical of the response. It happens to be mine.

I do now wonder whether the result would have been any worse for the Union — and whether it might even have been better — if Cameron, Clegg, Miliband and co had adopted from the start the approach that, while they’d personally be relieved and happy if Scotland decided to stay, this was entirely for Scotland to decide; and they wouldn’t want to talk that nation into or out of any change that might appeal to her. ‘Over to you’ might have made a better slogan than ‘Better together’.

In the wheedling abasement of England that I think has crept into the campaign to persuade a nation that plainly does not love us to put up with us at least, there lurks a danger. Whatever the result of the referendum, it assuredly leaves the English a bit less fond of Scotland, and the Scots no fonder of England, than before all this started.

We English have seen our politicians and journalists on their knees on our behalf, even as we’ve watched campaigners for a ‘yes’ vote carelessly tossing out insults and false accusations that have sometimes seemed little short of racist. That ghastly second debate in Glasgow organised by the BBC left me within a hair’s breadth of shouting ‘Oh for pity’s sake, go then. Get out of our hair.’ Our patience and our unionism have been tested. In my case, and I suspect that of many others, both have faltered. Everything has soured.

So if it’s ‘yes’ this weekend, the independence negotiations will be handled on the Union side by politicians who feel pretty sore about what has happened, and know their voters feel mildly sore too.

And if it’s a ‘no’, the paradox will be that even as Scotland cleaves to its union with the rest of the United Kingdom, the rest of the United Kingdom turns a little bitterly away. ‘Yes’ or ‘no’ — unless it’s an overwhelming ‘no’ — I as an Englishman will have never felt less affectionately towards Scotland than this weekend.

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  • JonahK

    Matthew Parris exactly sums up my own views on the referendum. It’s a shame his views on UKIP are so loopy.

  • AJAX

    Just voted YES! to stopping England stealing our oil, & to turning Scotland into Europe’s Dubai, & it felt great!

    After the broken down auld UK is put into history’s dustbin by the SNP the next thing in will be the creaking compromise that is Conservative Party, after UKIP does the same to the Liblabcon political class, so Parris better get his farewell valediction ready for that one too.

    The winds of change are sweeping thru this island’s politics & they’re long overdue. Time to rebuild from the ravages of the 20th Century, not just continue to huddle amidst the wreckage, with Tories like Parris content to have the comfortable billets amongst us.

    • christinemelsom

      Remember oil is a diminishing asset, it won’t always be there. The funding of Scotland by the rest of the UK since the Barnett formula was instigated will save the taxpayer quite a lot. The Scottish Government has always had control of most of its budget, including the NHS. If the SNP decides to go for free prescriptions, free university, then something else has to suffer. There is no going back, once you’ve gone, you’ve gone.
      Only 63% of the population of Scotland fall between the ages of 16 and 65. 37% of the population will have to be supported by so few should the vote be yes.
      Should the vote be no, then the rest of the UK will have to continue to pour money into Scotland via the Barnett formula etc,
      Maybe, just maybe the SNP have been canny, even if they lose the vote, the unacceptable promises made by politicians with little reference to the voters, will still mean money will continue to pour into Scotland from Westminster

      • Nikki Schellings

        Our pension contributions paid into UK NI until we leave will still be paid by UK…just like for anyone else who leaves UK…we will only be liable for pension contributions paid from the start of the new Scotland if this is how it goes, unless otherwise agreed in negotiations and most Scots I know are happy to pay a bit more…they know that starting anew will be expensive and may take a little while to get to where we want to be. This referendum will affect everyone but hopefully it will alter politics for the better. And majority of scots have no issues with any nationality in the UK, its the few hooligans that exist in any nationality just like in football supporters as well as the media and the politicians who are putting across any bias. And I think that if they had played a different, more honest game from the start then this election wouldnt be looking like a victory for Independence.

        • christinemelsom

          Even by as much as £1,200 per head of population?

      • Dominico

        They will STILL expect the rest of the UK to pour money in – fact!

      • ag

        Oil is a diminishing asset like the Empire, and like the Empire, it won’t always be there.

        • Kaine

          What empire?

    • Jim Hunter

      Well done, I wish you all the best from Northern Ireland. Some posters have stated that the Oil may not always be there. There was a report recently that said that of the Western Isles of Scotland there may be as much oil as there is in Scotland’s East Coast. Why does Westminster forget this? Because they have trident and the Nuclear submarines using the West Coast of Scotland as a sea laneway.

      • Kaine

        How much petrochemicals doesn’t matter, it’s the extraction costs that matter. Yes, extraction costs tend to reduce over time with technological advances spurred on by high demand, but that demand also encourages people to look to other sources of energy.

        • crosgag

          Yes
          Plus the weather off the western isles is sooooo much better than Scotland’s east coast!
          PS submarines can steer around oil rigs, they don’t tend to move very fast

          • PPS one of our subs crashed into the Isle of Skye not long ago, maybe oil rigs in the Firth of Clyde would indeed be problematic…

    • mary1966

      So let’s hope you’re not intending to steal the Shetlands oil then, given that’s your position on the oil!

      I hear they are not too keen on you plundering it!

    • dave

      But its the English paying to get the oil out you thick c—

      • Des Demona

        No it isn’t it is the oil companies you thick c—-

    • John_Twiss

      Don’t let the door hit you in the keester on your way out!

    • Jules Vernes

      Brilliant. You are a deluded Scottish fool. I work in the petroleum sector and know a thing or two about North Sea oil.. it will be fun when the Scots realise that there is a lot less than you think, with a lot more that will need to be financed with taxes from it because the English sugar daddy is no more. You deluded nutter. “European Dubai”. You crack me up.

      • Michael

        Jules Verne you are talking nothing but Turkish Delight….

        • Jules Vernes

          Perhaps. Time will tell. But I think even the wildly optimistic estimates of reserves put forward by SNP politicians (which are up to 400% higher than estimates by more neutral sources) would not turn Scotland into a European Dubai.

          • crosgag

            Presumably a European Dubai without the sun…or oil

          • Michael

            You are deluded thinking that the Scots want to live the same as Dubai,all we want is away from Westminster and your Deluded MP’s, and have a country off our own away from the rest of the UK…

    • Paul Devall

      Maybe if you were a Dubai, one of your McSheiks could sort out something you can’t blame on England. I am referring to the woeful SPL…..

  • Mark Breingan

    We are doing you a favour, the burden is leaving (with our Oil, Whisky and other Exports) You will nook to see a modern democracy, not an antiquated old boys club and maybe ask yourselve why! If we were worthless you would not let us go. Only those in power or with their eyes open will see the true cost in our leaving. Like a battered wife, made to feel worthless and that she should be grateful that her husband allowed her in her home! Time comes to leave and get on with life, richer or poorer, dont know. Happier.. YES!

    • John

      The Scots are absolute fools to believe the say yes campaign. I am an American and have watched this campaign with utter disbelief. The yes campaigners are talking like they have found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
      Venezuela is an excellent example of what may lie in store for an independent Scotland. Venezuela has more oil than any other country. The socialist, welfare state attitude and culture has destroyed the country. Inflation is over 60%, basic necessities are scarce in the markets and the infrastructure is crumbling.
      An independent Scotland, from the onset, will not have enough reserves to fund a central bank, build a military or fund the NHS and all the other promised social program expansions. This will lead to a higher tax rate, which in turn will lead to more corporate exodus, reducing employment and government revenue. Government will have to borrow more money, leading to again higher taxes. I think you can see where this is headed. Hello Venezuela!
      The need for Mid East OPEC countries, Iraq,Syria,Libya and to a lesser extent Iran, for more revenue to rebuild war and sanction ravaged countries, will most likely mean increased oil production. The US and Canada’s oil production has far outpaced North American demand and is putting larger supplies on the world market. All of these forces will combine to most likely depress oil into the $70-80 a barrel range.
      The SNP bases it’s revenue forecasts on $113 price for oil. This dream is so far from reality, their campaign symbol should be a Unicorn.
      A yes vote runs the risk of destroying the culture that is so unique and cherished by the residents of Scotland. If you want a better life for your children and grandchildren a No vote is the only reasonable solution.

      • Barzini

        There’s no doubt that there are many holes in the Yes argument and all kinds of unknowns……

        However, talking like Scotland will be some kind of banana republic is unfounded, there’s not exactly a shortage of successful small European countries, all of which have economic models to the left of anything proposed by the SNP and most of which do not have the natural resources of Scotland…..even Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than the UK…..

        I think there are many excellent reasons to vote No, but when people start making out that Scotland will be some kind of disaster zone the debate is cheapened and the other side stop listening…..

        • Kaine

          I don’t doubt Scotland will be a typical European country, in broad terms. Ireland is a very likely outcome. However the issue is many in the YES camp don’t want Ireland, they want Norway, and I don’t think they’ll get there and they’ll be very annoyed when they don’t.

          Worth pointing out Ireland actually has greater inequality than the UK, despite a historic tendency to export it’s poor.

        • Kaine

          I don’t doubt Scotland will be a typical European country, in broad terms. Ireland is a very likely outcome. However the issue is many in the YES camp don’t want Ireland, they want Norway, and I don’t think they’ll get there and they’ll be very annoyed when they don’t.

          Worth pointing out Ireland actually has greater inequality than the UK, despite a historic tendency to export it’s poor.

          • Barzini

            Ireland with oil, not exactly a nightmare situation, especially considering Ireland has a higher GDP per capita and consistently ranks higher than the UK in quality of life surveys……go there, it’s a great place to live

            Go back and read your first comment, you made it sound like just the idea of independence was insane…….it’s that type of argument I have a problem with

          • Kaine

            I think you have John and I mixed up. Of course Ireland is nice, but part of that is that if you can’t make it there you typically leave. The Northern Isles and Shetland are usually reported as the happiest places in the UK for in part I think the same reason. If you’re not happy with the way things are you don’t stay.

    • John_Twiss

      Your comment is exactly why so many people south of the border will be quite relieved to see you go. WE are tired of the vitriol and lies and the sheer hatred the yes campaign has exhibited. Today, even if Scotland votes to remain, the damage in relations has been done, and in the event of a yes vote, the relationship will even worse.

  • Peter

    This is about Scotland’s choice and we south of the border respect that they have a choice and will live by the result. There are 2 things that i think are worthy of further comment, however. Firstly, almost without fail, every interview I’ve seen by the YES campaign refers to oil. So presumably, if you removed the oil from the equation, there wouldn’t even be a vote. Secondly, whatever the outcome, and if the polls are to be believed, approximately 50% of those eligible to vote are going to be unhappy. All is not happiness North of the Border.

    • susie24

      I does seem strange to me that a country could become independent based a vote of 51% in favour.

      • ag

        Or stay enmeshed with 51% support.

      • David Griffiths

        Writing as a Scot who has just cast his “No” vote I couldn’t agree more Susie. The way the Westminster government has mishandled the situation from the start is really astounding. (a) The timing of the referendum was wrong – far too long a run up period allowing the separatists to build up momentum; (b) No third option on the ballot paper – Yes or No, take it or leave it – that was Westminster’s doing. At the time the SNP would have agreed to a third option of more devolution. When one poll gave Yes a majority the Westminster politicians then started making undeliverable promises of more devolution AFTER many people had cast their postal ballots; (c) The wording of the question, again agreed to by Westminster, “Should Scotland be an independent country?” forced the Unionists to run a negative campaign. The question ought to have been “Do you wish Scotland to remain part of the United Kingdom?” (d) Westminster failed to appreciate how badly the Better Together campaign was doing until it was beyond recovery; (e) Westminster failed to insist that ex-pat Scots living elsewhere in the UK should be allowed to vote; (f) Above all Westminster was wrong to allow the split up of the UK on a possible majority of one vote. There should have been an insistence on a “supermajority”, say 66%, as is the norm for constitutional change in many other countries.

        If Yes prevails and the UK fractures the blame will lie squarely at Westminster who simply failed to take the threat seriously until recently and who made the cardinal error of underestimating Alex Salmond.

        • Archie Bryden

          As an ex-pat and pure bred Scot, I agree 100% with David. The politicians at Westminster simply do not understand the Scots psyche and David Cameron is not the streetfighter that is required to deal with racists (and fascists) like Salmond. Cameron who seems a normal decent guy was totally naive in dealing with the situation. Should ‘Yes’ prevail and Scotland becomes a mess,Salmond will continue to lie and still blame England and Westminster! That has been the norm for decades! They moan about being remote from Westminster but Trafalgar Squ a few hundred yards from Parliament is as remote as Land’s End or John O’Groats, as is any where else in London or Birmingham or Manchester or Glasgow etc

        • susie24

          I agree totally and I can’t help but feel it is down to the arrogance of call me dave. Salmond played him for the fool he is.

          • Wessex Man

            Which makes Miliband in the light of the last few days what?

            Vote UKip!

          • susie24

            Vote for a party that is even further to the right of the tories? Vote for a party whose policies would reduce the poor to penury? NEVER

      • johnb1945

        Not even 51%. Terms were 50% + 1. Massively divisive.

    • Gwangi

      Also every photo used in these pieces shows Scots in tartan and kilts – both invented by the English.

      Scottish culture as we know it now was cobbled together in the 18th and 19th centuries by the English upper class who adored the romanticism of the place, and also by that hack Walter Scott’s scribbled fantasies.

      The whole tartan clan associations are fake, made up in 1822 for the visit of George IV to Edinburgh.

      Read The Invention of Scotland by Hugh Trevor-Roper and wipe the scales from yer eyes, lads and lassies!

      • Jambo25

        I’ve read the Trevor-Roper book. It was dross. Incidentally there are illustrations of Highlanders in tartan and kilts going back to the 17th century. There was a huge overlay of romanticism laid on by Scott but many modern Scots actually do reject that Scott invention.

  • Paul Devall

    If Scotland votes yes today. Then all well and good. We supported the rights of the Balkan countries to split from the Yugoslav Federation so why not let Scotland govern itself as a fully independent state?

    Maybe they’d like to take over the public share of RBS as well? After all it is a Scottish bank that prints its own banknotes……..all that oil money will cover that huge debt……

    • susie24

      I don’t think the oil money will cover it, not for many years anyway.

      • shblerrrgggg

        also the oil is running out exponentially the north sea is for all intensive purposes ‘dry’

    • Jim Hunter

      Exactly, English Nationalists are crying out to leave the European federalist system too, but want Scotland to stay? Gross hypocrisy!!!

      • Dominico

        I don’t want the Scots to stay – after they get independence and join the EU (some independence!) the rest of the uk will follow as “regions” ONLY the EU will win out in this LOL

    • John_Twiss

      RBS is going to either have to divest most of it’s banking in the UK or relocate south of the border. EU laws/regulations demand that banks have their headquarters and register in the country in which they have the majority of their business. Since RBS is also NatWest and Coutts, that means that they either divest most of their southern assets or relocate. RBS is NOT a Scottish central bank. It is a bank largely owned by British shareholders – in effect the British tax-payers.

  • Paul

    I agree with Mathew and am disgusted that Cameron and Co. have offered up ‘Devo Max’ when they specifically stated in 2012 that that was not an option. Whatever the referendum result who can possibly trust Cameron to now keep his word on an EU referendum.

    If the Scots vote yes I then hope (no doubt in vain) that the independent Scotland gives the same chance of an independence referendum to the Shetland Islands!

    • Jim Hunter

      Your right, what scares me is that Cameron will renege on Devo Max, just like Brown Bottled the EU referendum. I would not trust a Westminster Politician one iota. ( Nb: The promised EU referendum in 2017 will be rigged as well)

      • Dominico

        Oh Jim, You distrust politicians??? Can’t think why LOL

      • Kaine

        Cameron has no authority to pledge ‘devo Max’. We don’t have a presidential system.

      • Ngaire Lowndes

        I’ve had a thought. If Scotland secedes, then the rest of the former UK will legally be a completely different entity than that which signed the EEC agreement and subsequent EU treaties. It’s my understanding of contract law that when one party becomes significantly changed, any existing contracts are voidable. Could the former UK’s membership of the EU be voided? We could just walk away….

        • Jim Hunter

          If only, law is what the EU and its lackeys want it to be. I refer to Ireland’s referendum on both NICE and Lisbon some years ago, both rejected by the Irish electorate and they were forced to vote again until the correct result was made. The Concept of law, contract etc is very much up to interpretation to our elected dictatorship.

          • Kennie

            “…law is what the EU and its lackeys want it to be.”
            Quite so. To quote Lewis Carol (I think from Alice in Wonderland):
            “Words mean whatever I want them to mean”

    • Casper10666

      Cameron is over barrel, if he comes out of EU then Scotland can go for independence as we are staying in we cant be forced out. If he votes to stay in English will flare up and vote him out. Labour will be voted out in Scotland so Milliban will lose his 41 mps. support.

  • Christine

    What I want to know is why don’t we get a say in all of this. I am English and I have an opinion as to whether I think Scotland should leave the union and the rest of the UK along with all the Scots should be allowed to express our views. The vote today will have far reaching consequences for the whole of the United Kingdom and we should all have had a vote.

    • Jim Hunter

      The English never got a Vote on the Good Friday agreement in Northern Ireland, yet the People of the Irish Republic did? Its the people of that geographical area that decides. I mean the People of the UK did not get to vote for India leaving the Empire?

      • Kaine

        We sort of did, in that we elected a party pledged to do it. No one in 2010 voted for a team to oversee the dissolution of the UK.

        Also, Eire didn’t so much get a referendum on the same agreement, the agreement required a change to the Irish constitution which required therefore a referendum.

  • Lego Pig

    I hope they vote yes. Can’t wait to be rid of them.

    • CO Jones

      The best thing to come out of Scotland: Islay single malt.

      As long as it continues to be available in the UK, who cares of the whingeing Scots go or stay.

      • Des Demona

        Ahhhh some more of that anti English rhetoric?

        • CO Jones

          Perhaps you’ve already had too much of the single malt? As far as the “rhetoric” is anti anything, it is anti Scots …

          • Des Demona

            Again – try reading the up-comments

            ”Better still read through some of the posts on The Spectator for lots of anti Scottish rhetoric. Plonker.”

            Plonker.

      • Casper10666

        You seem to whinge more than the Scots do and malt we have a few will not disappear

        • CO Jones

          No-one can whinge more than the Scots: if there was an Olympic medal for whingeing, one of the “Yes” voters among you would walk away with it.

          Incidentally, the words in last part of your post seem a bit mixed up; too much of the single malt, maybe?

    • Des Demona

      Ahhhh some more of that anti English rhetoric?

      • Lego Pig

        No, I am English. Anti Scottish actually.

        • Des Demona

          Try reading some of the up-thread comments. Doh!

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          England is not a country until it issues its own passports.

          • Lego Pig

            Shut up

          • He calls himself a “Japan Alps Brit”, yet refuses even to recognise England as a Country! Crazy!

          • England is and will always be a Country (at least as a Country within the United Kingdom) whether you like it or not, “Mr. Japan Alps” (true nationality: Japanese).

    • Irene Irvine

      That’s how they feel
      about you Lego

      • Lego Pig

        I don’t care what a bunch of drunk crackhead benefit scroungers think of me.

        • Jim Hunter

          Is your real name Jeremy Kyle? These drunk crackhead benefit scroungers exist in England too.

          • Lego Pig

            But we will have to deal with a lot less if Scotland have to fend for themselves.

          • Kennie

            A lot Fewer, not a lot less. Unless of course, you mean the same number but not as often.

          • metic

            I think you mean many fewer

          • Kennie

            No, a lot = a (great) many

        • Irene Irvine

          Your comment shows what you are.I wonder have you ever not been on benefits?

    • Jim Hunter

      Im sure the feeling is mutual.

      • Lego Pig

        Look at all the shits i give,

    • Casper10666

      I hoped we voted Yes too, but not for the fact we wanted to get rid or you, but we wanted too spend our own salary in our own country,not too much to ask for is it.

  • Brian Johnson

    whatever the result the United Kingdom has ceased to exist.
    Very sad reading comments accusing the english of stealing scottish oil. It would be easy for us to accuse scotland of stealing our money to pay for free prescriptions, free university places, and free care for the elderly. Some people just don’t know when they are already onto a good thing.
    But one thing is for sure, Cameron has caused irreparable damage to the United Kingdom and Great Britain just by sanctioning this farce, his begging to the Scots for their votes is shameful and humiliating – even for him.

    • Chris Reade

      Am I wrong in thinking that the oil in question is not ‘Scottish’ oil or anybody else’s? Much of it is in under international waters and therefore belongs to any company which can get it out of the ground. The only right Scotland will have is to impose taxes on the companies retrieving that oil, merely because theirs is the nearest coastline.

      • Des Demona

        Yes you are wrong.

      • Kaine

        The zones were carved up by treaty. Of course there is the rather interesting notion of whether an independent Scotland would have got quite so much of the pie without the heft of the UK negotiating.

        • Jambo25

          Yes it would. Next.

        • Wilma Mcewan

          and now Gordon Brown is proposing part nationalising the oil …..guess where to WM ………beginning to see the method in the seeming madness ,if this happens I forsee within 5 yrs ,WM proposing Independence that will have got what they want from the “family”

          • Kaine

            The Nats have been screeching about the Norwegian model for years. Are they now opposed to it?

        • JPJ2

          More, probably. The Norwegians put one over the feeble UK Government-a bit like the EU and fishing rights.

          • Kaine

            The UK could have single-handedly written the rules on fishing rights if we’d gone in when we were first invited.

            You also speak as if the “feeble UK Government” didn’t have a disproportionate number of Scots in it.

          • JPJ2

            The Tory Heath gave away the fishing rights.

            I am not interested in the fact that “Scots” were in his government (they weren’t in it disproportionately), just that they did not act in the interests of Scotland (or even the UK in the case of fishing)

      • Jambo25

        Hopelessly wrong, as it happens.

        • global city

          but the SNP would have taken the newly independent nation into the EU, with a massive cost to both independence AND the oil and their 12 MILE coastal waters.

          Most of the oil belongs to the Shetlands anyway.

          • Jambo25

            Nonsense on stilts. 1) We are already in the EU 2) There is no EU plan to seize North Sea Oil rights. 3 ) There is no Shetland independence movement of any note. Even if there were Shetland would be classed as a maritime enclave of Scotland and would be entitled to virtually no Oil rights.

          • global city

            You need to update your info…. it’s really out of date!

          • Jambo25

            Give me the evidence/proof then.

          • Casper10666

            Wrong, and maritime law kicks in and Scotland would have 95% of the oil. Shetland 5%.

      • Casper10666

        Its Scottish oil. end off

        • shaunthebrummie

          and all the scots in england are scotlands and shall be driven back to the glens…where they can milk the midges to make the haggis……which after whisky is scotland 2nd biggest export

          • TheNameDoesn’tMatter

            why don’t you just search up everything Scotland has given the world you absolute prick and stop making such piss brained remarks. Here are very few examples of what Scotland has invented and Founded; Radio, TV, Penicillin, The pneumatic tyre, SAS, Radar, the list goes on. Now, the next time you call Scottish people stupid, or whatever the hell you just called us, you’ll know better or you’ll know it’s you that is either stupid, or just angry.
            P.S, What a prick

          • EnglandLover69

            FUCK YOU

          • Cameron Shags Pigs

            Right then you sacrilegious cock munching prick-tard, you can take your English ideals and stick them firmly up your arse hole, if your dads fist isn’t up there all ready. Scotland has given so damn much to the world and look how we are treated now, Andy Murry, the Tennis player that is, is Scottish as im sure even a man of your incompetence could understand, when competing in a game of Tennis on British television (Witch by the way was invented by the Scottish so fingers up to you) his nationality is British according to the commentators however if he is to louse a game he is labelled as Scottish, so final summation, Scotland is better than your sheep shaging, money hogging, Cock sucking, Donkey fucking, Oil Drinking, Independence denying, Tory fingering, cat slapping, Granny wanking shit hole of a nation.

          • EnglandLover69

            ENGLAND FOREVER LICK I LEFT NUT YOU WILLY FUCKING BOOM BOOM STICK

          • Cameron Shags Pigs

            Im going to shove my hairy cock that far up your arse you’l be picking hairs out of your mouth when were done.

          • EnglandLover69

            LETS FUCKING GO YOU COW

          • Cameron Shags Pigs

            mate im going to past your tits with that much cum you could make a wall out of it.

          • EnglandLover69

            M8 I HATE YOUR ARE A FAGGOT YOU SCOTTISH LOVING NIGGA

          • EnglandLover69

            FUCK THE SCOTS

    • Paul H

      Surely we just take a leaf out of Vladimir Putin’s book and simply annexe the Orkneys and Shetlands shortly after independence?

      • Jambo25

        Bit like Ulster in 1922. That ended well didn’t it.

      • AndrewMelville

        …perhaps because they’ve never been Inglish, whereas the Crimea has been Russian for 300 odd years?

    • Des Demona

      Can’t say I’ve seen those kind of comments in any mainstream debate. But did you know that for the last 33 years straight Scots have paid more per head in income tax than the rest of the UK average? So not really taking your money, other way round perhaps?

      • Kaine

        Neither really. I’m perfectly happy to say that on balance Scotland probably contributes as much as it takes out, and that this varies according to who and what you count over which time period. What elements of this are because it’s part of the union are difficult to guess.

        • RolftheGanger

          Waste of breath. Southerners cling to their myths. The more innaccurate the myth, the more dearly it is held!

          • Casper10666

            It truly is astounding how much rubbish is believed and passed on as fact.

          • Gwangi

            Yes, I think that every time I read your posts who parrot SNP propaganda and lies.
            Mind you, you probably also thing Scotland invented the Highland Games, Tartan, kilts and whisky. Whereas the English invented tartan and kilts, the 1822 visit of George IV created the clan association, the Highland Games and other Scottish culture is ALL FAKE, and the Welsh invented whisky (monks on Bardsey Island). NEXT…

          • Jackie Dawson

            More deflection get a real argument not all this spin from Westminster clones

          • Wilma Mcewan

            you seen to think we are all SNP another fallacy you have not checked out ,go and read up on something

      • Paul Devall

        Per head? And how many heads is that compared with England?

        • RolftheGanger

          And the relevance of that is – what? The flow of money is southward.

        • Casper10666

          we pay more than what we get back…..

          • Gwangi

            No you do not, imbecile.

          • Jackie Dawson

            yea we do, that’s shows just how much actual fact you know…….you just spin Westminster crap

      • The Wiganer

        That only stacks up due to your financial sector, which is accepted by everybody to be too big of debt liability for an independent Scotland. So if Scotland leaves then a major chunk of your banks move to England and you have a serious hole in your calculations.

        • RolftheGanger

          Except they have not and only the token brass plaque would move.

          • Casper10666

            Now stop telling them all this commonsense, they don’t want to hear it….don’t you know.

        • Casper10666

          and yet they don’t, they move their brass plates which has been the same scare they have tried I think three times. Scotland is the 14th richest country in the world. and if you question that, why is your PM holding on desperately

          • Gwangi

            If Scotland had voted for independence the money and banks and international companies would have ALL left and taken their money with them, you fool. Scotland is a success BECAUSE it is in the UK!

          • Jackie Dawson

            You small minded fool, they had no intention of leaving the 14th richest country in the world……idiot, you need to find your village.

          • Jim Millar

            Gwangi – what kind on name is that? Are you a cast member of The Lion King? You certainly sound as if you’ve just stepped out of the veldt. Time for your calm down medication.

      • Gwangi

        Everyone accepts the Scots get too much from the Barnett formula. The Welsh get £500 per head less and are poorer; the English too get screwed. Time for JUSTICE AND FAIRNESS. If the boot were on the other foot, you’d soon demand a fair settlement.

        • Casper10666

          More nonsense. Scotland pays more in tax, so we have more going south than whats returned. You truly have no idea and are peddling rubbish……research please.

          • Gwangi

            Oh Herr Salmond’s parrot squawking his lies and nonsense again.
            BUT if you think you do subsidise the English, then you won’t mind if we scrap the Barnett formula and don’t pay you £1600 more than every English person per head then, will you?
            Nice to know you’re learning to stand on your own two feet. It’s only taken 300 years for you to stop being the spoilt teenage brat who wants to fly the next yet live of hand-outs from the bank of ENGLISH mum and dad. LOL!

          • Jackie Dawson

            No I wouldn’t as long as you repay the billions stole from us using the Secrets act………we would own you

          • AndrewMelville

            What a silly little boy!

          • Wilma Mcewan

            never heard such stupidity as comparing us with nazism ,you confuse our Nats with your BNP now that is self evident ,u should use your energies to see them out

          • dean

            How did you even work out how to use the internet?

        • Wilma Mcewan

          how much do the Wesh put in ,how much do the English put in per head ,do you actually know??? you get a % of what is entered in the pot,we put in more per head ,hence we get a little more out ,if we had got indy ,we could have kept it all ,see how that would have worked for you all………….are you really so dense???

      • Casper10666

        Don’t confuse the poor ineducated here. Its been bred into their bones that Scotland is the poor cousin. but in reality woooww they aint.

    • John

      Carmeron had no choice but offer a referendum. Scotlands choice to go if they wish and not ours to keep them prisoners. I hope they enjoy their stagnation and decline but at least they will have themselves to blame and not place it upon England. Erect a border control asap and show that England also has the power to decide to keep them out !

      • Irene Irvine

        Keep you out too

      • Paul Devall

        I am quite sure whatever happens it will take another 300 years before the English cease to be blamed for everything.

        Every government blames the last one for the ankle deep shit they find themselves in. This will be no different.

        • Gwangi

          So true. The Scots remind me of Africans or Muslims – we give them loads of aid and they hate us for it and wallow in their comforting victimhood pity party so much that they have forgotten what it feels like to stand on their own two feet in a rational world.
          All bad things are the fault of the English; all good things – well it’s the Scots who did it. As utterly fantasy-riddled as their whole kilts and tartan culture (invented by the English anyway).

          • Casper10666

            You really need to stop posting, you truly have no idea what your talking about. Read the McCrone Report 1975, see who has been supporting who for a very very long time.

          • Gwangi

            Oh and who made you the headmaster? Your fuhrer Alex Salmond?
            You are a deluded moron, Stop posting and start classes in basic maths, then you can see that England bailed Scotland out in 1707 and has been doing so EVER SINCE. Even Scots admit that!
            Scots get £1600 more per head in public spending per year than the English and £500 per head more year than the Welsh who will NOT, I assure you, put up with being robbed by the Scots any more.

          • Wilma Mcewan

            did it never occur to you we put ore than this in the pit ,you are really a rather stupid person ,think about it ENGLAND “giving” away something with no return ,never happened in history,we put a lot in the pot ,without a fair return ,and ask yourelf why if we are such a drain your “esteemed” leaders begged lied cheated to keep us ,please do ask your MP or lobby WM ask them why ,and advise you fervently dissaprove ,u may just get an answer that will open your eyes

          • dean

            Scots get 1300 more per head and contribute 1500 more per head. Just saying.

          • shaunthebrummie

            just fucking stay in scotland….and take your parasitical clan members back…..

          • T182

            Given we invented most the shit that allowed you fucking dip shits to move into the modern era maybe England should be reminded of what the scots invented you ungrateful pricks. And here is the thing you cunts whine about Scotland being a drain what about your own fucking MP’s screwing you over and giving themselves massive raises. you people have been so spoon fed that you really think Scotland is doing it to say fuck you to England. if you think this you are fucking retarded. we are doing this as a fuck you to West Minister and our goal is to prevent them privatizing health care, schools which we get free. And we pay for our own shit. we give back more money to West minister than they spend on us so away with that bullshit.

          • dean

            That escalated quicklyu

          • dean

            Were you touched inappropriately as a child by a Scottish person?

          • Cameron Shags Pigs

            look here you English sack of shit, hows about you stop being a fucking twat get a job have a family and then buy a house and actually give something back to society instead of ranting about how you dislike us Scottish people on the internet. Then you follow in the foot steps of you beloved leader and and make a dead pig swallow you dick.

          • Wilma Mcewan

            you rally must red up on who gives who aid,rather a foolish comment ,examples please of all this aid

        • Casper10666

          Read the McCrone Report 1975 Westminster lied and Stole Scotlands future, so when it happens to you, tell me how it feels then………

          • Gwangi

            The Barnett formula was a bribe to Scotland and designed to last 2 years max. 38 years later mean and greedy Scot are still gobbling our subsidies. ENOUGH! England and Wales will NOT take this any more.
            And by the way, the LIAR Yes campaign tried to blame England for everything; well they would, they are nationalist racist bigots who wallow in their pity party rather than getting off their porridge-burping bottoms and getting a job! But really, The SCOTTISH parliament runs the SCOTTISH NHS – NOT London or Westminster.
            But Scotland loses anyway – because of uncertainly lots of big firms are leaving for England and Wales. We welcome them with open arms. Your loss, laddie.

          • Jackie Dawson

            Truth hurts eh…..you cant handle the truth so keep repeating crap…………..shame on you. There must be a village somewhere whose lost their idiot.

          • ElaineS

            You are a racist pure and simple and a liar to boot! You haven’t a clue what you are talking about and we most definitely are NOT subsidised by England. Kick start your braincells!> http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/revealed-the-accounting-trick-that-hides-scotlands-wealth/
            Proof you are a racist by attacking our Nation and it will be my pleasure to watch what else you spew out in racist hatred towards Scots and Scotland! I loathe racists! Scum of the earth they are!http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/discrimination_s/discrimination_protected_characteristics_e/ge5_race_discrimination.htm

          • Wilma Mcewan

            well said Elaine

          • Wilma Mcewan

            why the need to bribe us ,if everything was above board ,that one word says it all

      • RolftheGanger

        If Scots posted that stupidity about “the English” there would be howls of outrage and accusations flying. One-eye’d hypocrisy.

        • Casper10666

          Agreed, its strange how so many have no clue what they are commenting about.

      • Casper10666

        If Scotland gets enough MPS they can just state their independence, or if Cameron takes us out of EU we can state our independence as we wish to stay in. Watch this space.

        • Gwangi

          So long as Scots MPs and thrown out of the House of Commons when ENGLISH business is being discussed and voted on.
          Anyway, a great thing we’ll have no more Scottish prime ministers. If only we could have no Scottish TV presenters too now! They can sod off back to STV and parochial failure broadcasting…or WHINGECASTING as I call it.

          • AndrewMelville

            I hope the NHS will provide your meds at a reasonable price – you see the consequence when you stop taking them.

          • Wilma Mcewan

            and as long as English mps are thrown out when it comes to Scottish matters that will be fine ,bloody pity that vote was fixed no need to go to the house of corruption at all then

      • Wilma Mcewan

        since we have been declining steadily over the past 35 yrs of WM rule ,I can only see upwards and onwards ,and yes you are right mistakes will be made ,but NOT imposed from afar,yes please erect a border let me know when u start I will with great glee lay the first stone

    • John Carins

      No Brian. Cameron’s incompetence is trifling in comparison to the destruction of the UK caused by Heath (took us into the EU), Major (signed Maastricht) and Blair (promoted devolution). Cameron has just been at the end of the destruction. They have managed to do what the Luftwaffe failed to do. Anyone with an understanding of British history would know the influence that the continent played in Scotland. The Scottish moth flies to the EU flame!.

    • Gwangi

      Yes indeed, and in Wales – poorer than Scotland – we get free prescriptions but £500 less per head than Scotland in funding – we shall not put up with that unfairness any more. If Barnett stays, Barnett2 runs alongside to redress the balance and give the Welsh and English a fair share at last.
      The campaign has really damaged Scotland, esp the bullying and thuggery of the Glasgow gang YES campaign – bigots one and all. Many used to think Scottish people tolerant if maybe overly patriotic so as to be nationalistic (like the French but less smelly and more drunk). Now, many people I speak to internationally (I have contacts in over 20 countries) just don’t want to visit Scotland as it looks like Northern Ireland or Bosnia or Russia, full of hatreds and violence. Scotland loses. Shame.

      • Casper10666

        Ouch. you really need to stop posting you have no idea what your talking about. Ill say it again. SCOTLAND pays more tax. READ THE MCCRONE REPORT 1975 educate yourself please. You might just might understand how Scotland feel.s

        • Gwangi

          Fantasy and lies.
          Read The Invention of Scotland by High Trevor Roper. Look at HOW MUCH funding each nation of the UK receives under Barnett.
          Do you deny Scotland gets £1600 more than England and £500 more than Wales?
          And anyway, most oil is in INTERNATIONAL waters on British ones, NOT Scottish waters, son. In 20-30 years it’ll all be gone too. HA HA.

          • Jackie Dawson

            Your mssing the point again, educate yourself instead of rapeating nonsense. Scotland is UK golden goose that’s why Cameron is holding on with his teeth Does that not tell you anything…REALLY!!! Read the McCrone Report 1975. Then stop posting rubbish

    • Casper10666

      You really don’t have a clue. Read McCrone Report 1975 first. Our prescriptions/ university places/free care for the elderly come out of the money we get returned to us from Westminster, we chose to use our money differently. Your government could do that for you too, but they don’t. We get nothing free, we just use our money differently. Scotland has supported England for the last 33 years. Educate yourself please, your write rubbish.

    • AndrewMelville

      …except it would be nonsense, since Scotland contributes more to the Treasury per capita than the British average, or than it draws out. Scotland is subsidizing the rest of the UK, and not just with oil. Sorry.

    • shaunthebrummie

      its because CAMERON is an anti English money grabbing scot…and does not want his wealth or position of power affected…and wants to give English tax money to his fellow scots….f**k them off i say…and ban all foreigners from any political office in England…..hate the shits

  • Nymeria Meliae

    I am a Northumbrian… what this campaign has clearly spelled out to me is that the rest of England don’t see us as English… the number of commentators who have called for Hadrian’s wall to be rebuilt to keep the Scots out failing to realise that almost all of Northumberland is North of the wall and North of Carlisle… even the vast majority of Newcastle is North of the wall.

    Then there are the Labour posters in Scotland showing Scotland being torn apart from the rest of Britain with a caption, ‘What next?’ only the tear between England and Scotland is South of Northumberland.

    If Scotland votes ‘No’ then it would be in Northumberland’s best interest to campaign to become part of Scotland… 1/3 of Northumbrians would sooner belong to Scotland than England, 1/3 would sooner be part of England, and the rest have not really thought about it. I live more or less on the wall itself… I live about 80 miles from Edinburgh and about 480 miles from London. Our dialects are related to each other – Scots coming from old Northumbrian when we owned Edinburgh and the lowlands of Scotland – and we have passed back and forth between England and Scotland for centuries, even fighting with the Jacobites at the last uprising. One thing can all but be guaranteed, after decades of being ignored by London, if we had representation in Edinburgh then the A1 would finally be a dual carriage way.

    • Hexhamgeezer

      I would dispute your estimation of 1/3 wanting union with the North based on my unscientific polling in the pubs and Greggs’ of Hexham and Newcastle. If anything folk are moaning about our lack of a vote to say ‘YES’. Edinburgh should join us rather than the other way round. Unscientific I admit but it’s definately what I’m hearing.

      • Nymeria Meliae

        well whenever Scotland asks for Berwick back it is known that the Northumbrians ask for Edinburgh back…. that’s just banter. BUT, putting aside the banter for a moment and thinking about it with a straight head… we get nothing from Westminster… do a google search for “BBC News – Transport spending ‘skewed towards London'” – £2,700 is spent per person in London compared with £5 per head in the north-east of England.

        While our region suffered the biggest cuts in the country, there were Tory constituencies in the South East that actually saw an increase in Government spending.

        We live on the border, and we can look across it and see free university education, free prescriptions, better run NHS, free parking in hospitals, more jobs, more government investment etc. If Scotland votes ‘NO’ they’ve been promised even more investment and powers… do we want to be the forgotten wilderness of Britain only good in the eyes of London for fracking or do we want a bit of the action North of the border? If Scotland votes ‘No’ the only thing we would have to lose in saying goodbye to England and joining the Scots is supporting England in sporting events even though they play all their home games in London, and we have a lot more things that would really impact our lives for the better to gain.

        I speak to Northumbrians all the time who support both Scotland and England in the rugby… who’ve been to see Scotland play at Murrayfield and supported them more times than they’ve seen England play. So giving up the England team to gain power and investment sounds like a good deal to me.

        • Hexhamgeezer

          Imagine throwing our lot in with Salmond, Sillars, and Sturgeon. When it comes to the freebies and jobs we would still be last in the pecking order. An ‘independent’ Scotland would hopefully (and I admit it is in hope rather than expectation) result in Westminster realise that we weren’t that far away after all and be worthy of some consideration.

          • Nymeria Meliae

            even if we come last in the pecking order it will be more than we get from Westminster or any notion of an English parliament.

      • Hexhamgeezer

        BTW, the only rugger bggrs here that support the jocks are those who were schooled in and around Edinburgh.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    “‘Well it’s up to them’ would be typical of the response”.

    In the words of the great thinker and songbird, Doris Day, “Que sera, sera”.

  • Jim Hunter

    A question I usually ask is, Is the Union a Union of equals? In my opinion it never was, Scotland had it a little better than the Northern Irish (We were-are just a colonial outpost in the Union). Time and time again Tory unpopular policies tried on the Scots, poll tax, welfare reforms before England, its ok for Scotland to go nuclear but not England. The UK concept to most people is that the UK is South East England-London and always will be. Until its a Union of equals (which it wont) the Questions of separation and independence will always remain, coupled with legitimate anti Westminster feelings, I could not really Blame the Scots for feeling aggrieved. The UK is also being undermined by Europe with the full consent of the three Westminster Parties anyway, Sorry this UK sentimentality does not cut it anymore with me. Political fusion it is in the UK and there is no turning it of now.

    • Kaine

      Giving a country of 5 million the same say as a country of 50 million isn’t democratic. Looking at politicians I’d say the Scots have done rather better than expected in the power stakes. I don’t believe we’ve ever had a PM from the North West for example.

  • 24

    The only way to get rid of the Barnett formula is for Scotland to vote Yes, now that that Westminster politicians have “vowed” to keep it and promised extra devolution. Meanwhile in Birmingham we have public services cut after £450 million of extra cuts are announced from central government. On top of the hundreds of millions already cut. £380 per head in the West Midlands £1200 per head public spending in Scotland, something is so wrong and no one is doing anything about it. We need Scotland to vote yes, for too long politics has been dominated by either Scotland or London, our strong, industrious, creative English regions need true representation. Darwin, Newton, Brunel, Telford, Shakespeare, even James Watt came to Birmingham to build his factory with Matthew Boulton. We have nothing to fear and everything to gain. Enough with the constant kowtowing to Scotland and time to unplug the vacuum of resources to London. If Wales and Northern Ireland what to be with us we can can achieve amazing feats with proper redistribution and true representation.

    • Kaine

      The idea of Hamlet in a Brummie accent always makes me smile.

  • Hexhamgeezer

    A number of posts seem to have dropped off here. Shame as they were pertinent and cogent.

  • Dominico

    The couple pictured above epitomizes the “Yes” campaign – Dress and minds firmly fixed in the past – in the 13th Century. Time the Scots stopped dreaming – stopped whinging about the past and got on with things – thats why no-one likes them. they continue to gripe about the middle ages.

    • andrew

      So true – that photo is utterly ridiculous. Farcical. The kilt is a complete historiographical myth. It is just a fetishised icon representing a misplaced sense of nationalism, with no sense of irony.

    • Des Demona

      Ahhhhh some more anti English rhetoric?

  • The Chair

    Well the campaigning is over so stop with the BS on both sides. If I was to believe Better Together then the earth with self destruct on a yes vote. Move over Russia, Scotland is the new bad boy. If you listen to the yes then Scotland is invisible. Respect the vote, respect the will of Scotland and deal with it. I am glad its over and I voted this morning. Put an X against no.

  • andrew

    Good article, very interesting. I think if Scotland votes to stay, and Westminster grants Holyrood Devo-Max, then the quid pro quo should be that the Scots agree the Union is now absolute. No more referendums ever, the Union cannot be dissolved unless all the nations unaminously agree. The country simply cannot afford again to waste the monetary resources and time that his whole affair has taken. No more rising up, no more rebelling – we are a union – imperfect maybe, but we must all agree to work together harmoniously and in a spirit of genuine good will.

  • Bruno

    If its a no vote do we in England get a vote to see if we want Scotland to be part of the Union on all these new terms being offered to Scotland.
    When a vote for Independence was agreed to be done by both parties, WE the English was not told it was with extra conditions given away by us, hey so surley we should be entitled to some say in this along with Wales and N Ireland.

  • Anthony John Allen

    The blame game, well it all started with Tony Blair when he was PM, but Cameron did not have to perpetuate Blair’s bad decision, I agree his recent grovelling to the Scot’s was nauseous to say the least and as an English man, do not agree at all to the Scot’s getting one iota of extra privileges over the rest of us, if they want to leave the union, let them go and I firmly believe we would be better off without them along with interfering EU zealots.

  • Jules Vernes

    I am not English, I am not even British, so i don’t have a dog in the race. I don’t live in the UK. But I used to live in the UK for over 15 years and have therefore followed everything very closely as I retain a real affection for the country.

    Based on the conduct of the proponents of Yes, if I were an Englishman, I would pray for a yes vote, and hold a ‘good riddance’ party. If Scotland becomes independent, the SNP will be confronted with their many lies about the economic impact of independence. If it stays within the UK, the English will continue to subsidise Scotland, and the SNP will continue to blame London for everything that’s going wrong in Scotland.

    Why do the English just accept that? They seem to have battered wife syndrome, poor things. The English patience with the Scots and the humiliating grovelling we have witnessed in the past 2 weeks or so look to me like a diagnosis of some bizarre disease, not the conduct of a proud and confident nation. The English should grow a pair and tell the Scots to **** off.

    • Des Demona

      Ahjhhh there’s some of that anti-English rhetoric I hear so much about.

      • CO Jones

        Des, by continually repeating the same comment, and by referring to anti-English rhetoric when, in each case, the comments are anti-Scottish, you are making yourself look rather foolish.

        • Des Demona

          Cry me a river.

      • Lego Pig

        Do you just reply the same inane rubbish to ever comment?

        • Des Demona

          No, just to the ignoramuses.

    • CO Jones

      A pity you are not British: we desperately need a new prime minister, and from your comments, you appear to have the right approach. You’d have my vote, anyway.

    • AndyR

      Wow did you have a bad experience in Scotland to have such a viewpoint and blanket judgement of all Scottish people. Thank god you left and went back then as this country united or not needs people who will support others and be respectful but all you do is try to stir up English against Scots, why don’t you grow a pair and do us all a favour and stay away the UK doesn’t need any more like you

      • Jules Vernes

        “…and be respectful”? You might want to suggest that to the Yes campaign. No wonder Matthew Parris is a bit turned off by the whole thing.

        • Kennie

          Matthew Parris is an arrogant sh1t.

    • Mr Berwell

      Jules, may I ask how you have formed your opinion on “the conduct of the proponents of Yes”? Likely from the mainstream media. Which is massively biased towards No, and which has more or less invented these stories of harrassment, or taken very minor incidents and blown them up. For political reasons.

      Perhaps you should read the statement from Police Scotland, released yesterday: http://www.spf.org.uk/2014/09/spf-media-release-independence-referendum-2/

      As far as I am aware, there has been one conviction in the whole campaign. This was when someone cracked an egg on the back of a politician. This politician then made a huge deal of this, treating it like “a sucking chest wound” according to one prominent Scottish columnist.

      You may enjoy feeding off the hype of dishonest media barons. That’s your choice. Alternatively you could get some other information, from a balanced selection of sources, and work out the truth of the matter.

      • Jules Vernes

        I have a lot of friends in Scotland. Apart from one, they are all No voters. The levels of intimidation they have experienced have been shocking. They are pretty sick of it all. While I cannot say whether the media have invented stories, my friends’ experiences sound a lot like what the MSM describes.

        By “intimidation” I don’t mean attacks that would warrant police interference. I think it’s bad enough in a free and tolerant society when you cannot express an opinion without getting shouted down by a mob of people.

        • Mr Berwell

          “shouted down by a mob of people” — I honestly have no idea what you mean. Jim Murphy went out with a megaphone and shouted at people in the street and groups of mainly older Yes voters shouted back at him from time to time. Are you referring to that? Or the entirely peaceful protest at BBC Scotland, where people sang songs and listened to speeches? The reaction to that protest was Stalinist: No campaign wanting to suppress the right of ordinary people to protest against the conduct of the ubiquitious state broadcaster. Apart from these “incidents” I truly have no idea what you mean. I have to conclude that a few robust discussions + strategic, planned lies/distortions from the pro-No press/broadcasters led to this almost entirely manufactured impression.

          By the way, do you know that the No campaign called the two-week media onslaught leading up to the vote “shock and awe”? This was *their* name for the unprecedented package of attacks on the reputation of Scotland and its people. A lot of it orchestrated by senior politicians like David Cameron, who summoned industry bosses to Downing Street to ask them to release coordinated warnings over independence (this is documented — look it up).

          The facts are that given the importance of the vote, the strength of feeling, the constant aggression, sneering and scorn of Scots and Scotland by the London press (which, believe me, starts to get to one after a few weeks), the size of the electorate, etc., this was a remarkably peaceful campaign. The police in Scotland themselves have confirmed it, as have numerous international sources.

          Don’t believe the narrative invented and promulgated by vested interests. Don’t be naive.

        • David

          Are you talking about the years of socialist uncontrolled immigration in England? If any one mentioned it they were branded a racist. Is this the mob you refer to?

  • John Chattey

    If you do go scotland can you take Northern ireland out with you please? I believe many of the folk there are scot descendants are they not. Don’t see why the english should pay for that little expensive colony of yours.

    • Des Demona

      Ummmmm It was the English who first colonised Ireland. Doh!

      • Kaine

        Actually it was the Norse first, they founded Dublin. The specific planter colonies of NI however were begun under a Scottish king and featured overwhelmingly Scottish colonists. Hence ‘Ulster Scots’.

        • Des Demona

          The first of the home countries. However, technically it was James the First of England (who happened to be James V of Scotland as well) who instigated the plantations. But the conquest of Ireland was instigated half a century earlier by Henry V111 and completed by Elizabeth 1.

          • Kaine

            The conquest of Ireland began as far back as the Normans. By the time of King John he was ‘Lord of Ireland’. The correct lens in my view is to see these conquests and unions not in a national sense, but in a dynastic one. ‘England’ did not conquer ‘Ireland’, rather the ruling family whose lands included England (and various parts of France and other countries) also ruled other parts of these islands.

            England isn’t the colonial nation, England is in fact the first part of these isles to be colonised.

          • Hexhamgeezer

            .and the 1st record in history is of Irish attacking south Wales.

          • Kennybhoy

            Also invaded by Edward Bruce, the younger brother of King Robert, the year after Bannockburn.

          • scottish history grad + lawyer

            He was James VI of Scotland James V was his grandfather.I don’t think that your understanding of history is such that you should attempt such explanations as this

        • Kennybhoy

          See Above.

      • Kennybhoy

        Nope. The people of the British Isles, “These Islands” in PC new-speak, have been intermingling, fucking and fighting since the ice receded. What is now Scotland, for example, was “colonized”, an anachronistic term in this context, by Gaels from what is now Ireland in the years after the Romans left.

  • peter allen

    If the result is a no,we should negotiate to become “the british federation” let all four countries set their own taxes run their own police forces etc, and if agreed have just a united defence force.

  • Michael

    Sorry mate your article is Turkish Delight, Scotland owe England Nothing and Scotland want nothing, all we want is a country of our own, you say that the better together have been fair in there campaign, well all i have read daily from the better together is Doom and Gloom for Scotland, Scotland can’t do this or that and the whole country of Scotland will fall flat on it’s face, i believe that you and the rest of the better together campaign must be living on another Planet..Vote YES….

    • stag

      All I have heard from Salmond is (a) pie in the sky; and (b) negative campaigning focused on a specific hate figure: “Westminster”. It’s the Nats who have run the genuinely negative campaign. Just saying it like I see it.

  • Trev

    Alex Salmand as done more harm than good with his referendum As what has for hundreds of years been in general good natured banter between the Scots an the English has now been changed No matter what the outcome after all the anti English rhetoric there will remain a bad taste in our mouths when thinking about the Scots Drunk on the thought of power they have made some critical statement’s We always say a drunk tends to reveal his true thoughts.

    • Des Demona

      What anti English rhetoric? From whom? I’ve heard none in any of the many debates.
      But carry on making stuff up.

      • stag

        I reckon there is a common belief in the Yes camp – one that doesn’t often emerge in front of cameras and microphones – that the UK is basically about English people swindling the Scots. I have heard it myself from Yes supporters.

      • adopted kenyan

        @Des Demon a If I am a plonker good manners denies me the pleasure of fully responding except to ay if you believe all the c…rap in your posts about Scots paying more tax etc the perhaps it would have been better if Scotland had voted yes But rest assure the English will also be considering our options on why we subsidise prescription charges etc for the Scots NB is your real name NESBITT??

        • Des Demona

          Sorry, have you changed your name or do you just post under a few different ones?

          You don’t subsidise prescription charges. Idiot. The Scottish Government choose to do that from the overall allocated budget (compensated for by Scottish taxpayers. and Scottish oil) Just as the Westminster Governments chose to do so with the NHS before the neoliberal axxwipes like you took over.

          And yes, it certainly would have been better if they had voted YES. Unfortunately a combination of browbeating and fear-mongering from the establishment coupled with self- interest of those fearful for their own economic position and sod everyone else prevented this.

          Rest assured, the matter is not settled, especially if the Westminster muppets start playing games.

          • adopted kenyan

            Sorry posting from Kenya now so different label. But as you tend only to argue rather than discuss and have to sink to the name calling it shows you are sadly lacking Probably one of those Scots who want to claim the vote was rigged or some other excuse Unwilling to accept your fellow Scots do not agree with you. As for the “matter is not settled” you may find veiled threats get you more than you expected ! So with that we are done I need to enjoy my time here with my family hope the next few months don’t get too cold in Scotland Ah but I forget you have your anger to keep you warm lol

  • AndyR

    Very sad that everyone assumes its only Scots who are voting in this major poll may I remind everyone that Scotland is full of all ethnics and its not just Scottish people anyone living there for more than 3 weeks can vote so if you are born Scottish and live in England you can’t vote hence Alex needing to lower the voting age to get more yes votes. Don’t judge all Scottish people by saying good riddance there are a lot of scots who do not want this and the British Government should not have allowed just residents of Scotland to vote it should have been up to everyone in the UK to vote.
    I suspect all the closet racist comments will come out against everyone who is Scottish but all that indicates is the ignorance of those writing such comments, as I mentioned Scotland is full of all NATIONALITIES including the English so stop think and be an adult here rather than write silly nasty comments. Once the people have made their choice then that’s it they are on their own and as a scot I feel sad that today the UK could break up but accept its the peoples choice of every nationality who is living in Scotland at the moment and feel that if yes voters win then it won’t be long before they realise they played straight into the hands of alex salmond, god bless the UK and may we stick together. ps I respect everyone is different and opinions differ

  • John

    The Scottish say the world is watching. IMHO the world is watching a laughing.

    • Des Demona

      At your spelling and grammar?

  • John

    Independence on Friday. Animal farm on Monday.

  • helmckie mcdonald

    This is not in any way the Scots fault instead it is WESTMINSTER in giving away buckets full of tax payers money to the E.U,FOREIGN AID,BENEFIT HAND OUTS TO NON-BRITISH CITIZENS & FINALLY LETTING BRUSSELS RIDE ROUGH SHOT OVER THIS COUNTRIES POLICIES which has caused the problems whilst cutting back on everything which the U.K hold very closely to there hearts it is them who have ripped the heart & soul out of this nation all the E.U have done was to take the payments & laugh

  • GennaX

    Fi Fie Fo Fum, who stole the blood of so many English, Welsh, Northern Irish and yes, Scots men and women?
    Neil Salmond that’s who. And all those others who’s ‘yes’ vote – deny as they might – is clearly predicated on deep-seated ‘anti’ ‘south of the border’ sentiment.*

    For the majority of people within the United Kingdom, be they English, Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish, being a member of the United Kingdom is an integral aspect of their identity. It is not simply an extra line of address that we can choose to use or not.
    The intertwining of our flags symbolizes a vision, and the dominant image that survives today, emanating from our long and mostly proud history, is of a mature, intelligent, civilised society predicated on fairplay and tolerance.
    Breaking up the Union is an attack on the very essence of our being.

    (NB This is not to suggest all ‘yes’ votes stem from anti south of the border sentiment.)

  • johnson van

    The No voters have solemnly concluded that self preservation comes first.

  • Terence Wilkinson

    As a Scot living in Scotland, and a long term fan of your work, this article distresses me. Please Matthew do not let that man and his Seriously Nasty Party cloud your vision of Scotland. The First Minister does not speak for all Scots. Not all Scots agree with the divisions with England that he is creating and not all are motivated by hatred of England. In fact I believe that the anti-English bias of so many Scots is a form of racism and is a cancer at the heart of our society. A society based on hatred surely cannot flourish.

  • Wendy McGhee

    I am so PEED OFF by the English media reporting that the Scottish people voting YES are anti-English. What a load of tripe. I am English living in Scotland….Yes I have had a couple of comments by rif-raff but the warmth and love from my wonderful friends up here is fantastic. To my English friends….. I have lived up here a third of my life almost and let me say any stuff you read about Scottish voting yes cause they hate the English is just RUBBISH its the corruption of Westminster they hate and what’s wrong with the desire to run their own country? To my Scottish friends…. I can’t believe the wonderful beautiful people I have met up here love you xxx don’t let this absolute crap in the media upset you English people are not stupid enough to believe it (well not those with brains). I am a no voter I have some good friends voting no and I have some voting yes… but please let us not fall out over our opinions!!!

  • Robin De Ath

    The problem with the No campaign has been the scare tactics, the problems with the Yes campaign have been the pie in the sky aspirations with nothing to back it up and the attitude of some, and only a very small some, of it’s supporters. But as in all instances of a very vocal minority they succeed in tarring everyone else with their own brush, Des Demona being, I’m afraid a case in point. Whatever the outcome there are going to be a lot of very unhappy people in the morning and I hope that Alex Salmond and Co have a plan to heal those wounds – they have the potential to be as deep as those in Northern Ireland.

  • John Carins

    Mathew – why should you be less affectionate to the Scots? Your party has to take a significant amount of the blame in allowing ancient animosities to be rekindled through membership of the EU. Remember there is a substantial number of Scots who remain loyal. Don’t give up on them. The “yes” voters are selfish, spiteful idiots. These types can be found in any community.

  • Gill Gribler Scott

    Well of course that’s all frightfully sensible of you Matthew Parris (is that just 3 or the 3rd?) but in case you haven’t noticed, when it comes to the polls that everyone of age, be he/she genius or idiot can vote in, those of whatever persuasion have to play to the gallery. Good job you’re only a columnist and not in charge of our political protection. I applaud the highly respected Spectator for humbling itself to show that as a country – it’s not all about frightfully sensible thingies, sometimes it’s about feelings. Yes it is a shock and also sad to see so many Scots (young especially) mesmerised by all the goodies the hubris filled Mr. Salmond promises – and yes we know we have never been truly forgiven for Mary Queen of Scots or Bonnie Prince Charlie by the gnarled elderly – but I have never seen a more noble man representing England than Bill Millin playing “Highland Laddie” on the beaches of Normandy

    • Des Demona

      He was representing England, was he? Sure about that? It wasn’t the Uk and Commonwealth (seeing as how he was born Canadian)

      • Gill Gribler Scott

        even better, he was representing togetherness then,

  • Ian Henderson Gemmell

    I think what many politicians are concerned about is Britain’s standing in the world. I think whatever the result it seems useful to create a partnership of equals with close co-operation rather that a feeling of rejection or alienation. It is in Britain’s to co-operate with Scottish aspirations for mutual benefit.

  • Kennybhoy

    “Yes or no, I’ll never feel the same about the Scots”

    If a UKIP supporter, or one of the regular posters hereaboots typed this about immigrants, homosexuals or some other you would have a fit of left-liberal apoplexy!

    • Livia

      Almost the entirety of Scotland was engaged with this campaign, and the turnout was monumentally huge, so the vote and the campaign say something, or some things, about the country and the people at large, something which can be interpreted in various ways, i.e: democracy is alive and well, a lot of Scots aren’t huge fans of Westminster etc. If a kipper said, let’s say, ‘something similar’ about gay people or immigrants, it would be to suggest that the gays are bringing god’s wrath on us via bad weather, or that they are responsible for people not being allowed to smoke in pubs, i.e: total waffle. People talk about the gay community all the time, about immigrants all the time. You can have certain objections to factors involved with these groups without bringing some criticism upon yourself. You can be very opposed to completely open borders and not be accused of racism of rightwing nuttery etc, you just have to avoid the suggestion, or, as some kippers have found, the explicit belief that all gays and immigrants are evil or in any way ‘all the same’.

  • John

    Fortunately for Scotland and the UK, independence was rejected by the majority of Scots.
    I am in my 50’s and live in the United States. Over my lifetime, The North / South divide in our country has seemed to dissipate. The comment that someone was still fighting the civil war, was common to hear into the 1980’s.
    I think the migration of northerners to the South, social networking and the intolerance for the confederate flag have all played a part.
    I hope that the UK homogenizes itself more and that everyone eventually considers themselves British first, just as I am an American from New York and not just a New Yorker.
    Best of luck to all.

  • Andy M

    At least we have a rough idea now of how many Scots do genuinely despise England and it isn’t just a bit of banter. They voted to stay, because they were marginally collectively intelligent enough, but the narrow victory shows just how many people there are who would still cut off their nose to spite their face in Scotland. As far as I’m concerned there are idiots everywhere, but if around 45% of Scots hate me because I’m English, I won’t lose any sleep over it, precisely because I’m English and don’t have an inferiority complex.

    • Livia

      Never mind inferiority complex, you sound paranoid and insane. A portion of the 45% probably hate the English, but most just hate the claws of Westminster, as many of the English do. To project that onto some personal fantasy of them all hating you is a weird kind of narcissism, to say the very least.

      • Andy M

        That would be you projecting your personality, dear. It really didn’t matter to the English what the result was, only the Scots had something to lose. No skin off our noses either way. It was just interesting to see just how many Scots are that anti-English to want to cut off their nose to spite their face.

    • Des Demona

      How idiotic to take the fact that 45% of Scots voted for independence as proof that 45% of Scots hate you because you’re English. Your inferiority complex is showing.

      • Andy M

        How braindead of you to not read my comment correctly and see I never stated how many Scots hated England, or stated that I believed 45% of all Scots did, but rather that this does highlight that there is definitely an element who do, whereas before I would have given all Scots the benefit of the doubt that it was all banter. Your stupidity is showing.

        • Des Demona

          You said the results show that 45% of Scots hate you because you are English.
          It is very clear to see where the stupidity lies and it is squarely with you,

  • Chuck Jones

    Well I think I am a minority of scots in doing this, but one of the main reasons I voted no was because I cared just as much about issues in England, Wales and Northern Ireland as I do about issues in Scotland. I don’t just care about fellow scots, I care about fellow brits. Creating a socially just Scotland was not enough for me – I want to create a socially just united kingdom – so if we get a labour government instead of a tory/ukip one because of the Scottish vote, I will be asking for some gratitude

  • Doesn’t like Scots, doesn’t like the people of Clacton, I wonder if there is anyone (besides his fellow London liberals) that Mr Parris likes?

  • Hegelguy

    “Yes or no, I’ll never feel the same about the Scots”

    Er….who ever felt good about YOU, Parris?

    • vieuxceps2

      Who ever felt good about the Scots? Themselves excxepted of course.

  • Woodsman

    I’ve come late to this discussion, but I’ve never read some much rubbish from all of you. As a Yes voter, I can confirm that I will never again be voting in UK elections, and I’m sure over 40% of the Scottish population feel the same way. Our positive mindset has been replaced by the exact opposite. I’m giving up my position as a volunteer CAB adviser, and doing what the No voters have done – thinking only of themselves. The country will be devoid of a massive amount of positive energy for quite some time, replaced by apathy. Check out the turnout figures for the 2015 elections.

    • Livia

      Don’t give up, man. There is plenty of potential for a win sometime in the future. Westminster threatened economic apocalypse, so it’s not surprising they dredged up enough support for No in the last weeks – but it was no landslide for them. The CAB do great work, and I’m sure they help a lot of Yes voters as well as Nos. Apathy will only make things worse.

    • Lynn Grace Corbin-Lohmanns

      If losing one referendum was all it had to take for you to abandon your altruistic instincts then they were clay footed and never genuine. All front, no depth. Pathetic!

    • The_greyhound

      The thing about wee nats is that they are the sorts of people we will never miss – poorly educated, lazy, irrational, self-pitying spongers. The “positive mindset” of which you speak was merely that boastful arrogance, that mouthy aggression that characterizes the little fellow chucking his weight around, one of our country’s abiding flaws.

      Just sayin’.

      • tolpuddle1

        You have perfectly described what happens to people who have been corrupted by years of Capitalism, not least by its policy of fobbing off the proles with Bread and Circuses.

        But what should “the little fellow” do ? Let himself be trampled underfoot by the big fellow ? Die of a surfeit of fried Mars bars ? Or simply lay him doon and dee ?

  • George Tait Edwards

    The rUK did face a kind of doom, £42 bn of it, as 90% of the oil money was relocated to Scotland in return for maybe half a dozen brass plates. See https://medium.com/@georgetaitedwards/the-economic-case-for-a-yes-vote-for-scottish-independence-da16564b07c0

  • Les Barrie

    Now the result is known,the fun really starts,can Cameron,Miliband and Clegg deliver on their promises,I somehow doubt it,tory MP’s want Scottish MP’s banned from voting on English affairs [quite rightly so] to agree to more devolution and labour and the lib/dem will not agree to this so legislation is unlikely.If I am working for somebody and they change to conditions of contract after I commence work I won’t accept the changes,so Scotland shouldn’t accept the referendum result if Westminster doesn’t pass the legislation[printed on the front page of a national daily rag and signed by all three party leaders.Another significant by product of the NO vote is the crumbling of labour support in its west of Scotland heartland,if this trend continues [it started at the last Scottish election when the SNP wiped out labour] we could see 30-40 SNP members of parliament giving them the balance of power.LMAO

  • scottish history grad + lawyer

    I as a no voting Scot shall never again read a column written by Mr Paris. We have had a really awful time recently.Nationalist thugs are even now showing real aggression to those of opposing opinions.I did not want devolution and I do not want to break the union.We are a family of nations. Many yes voters are simply those who have been led astray but who with the right treatment may be brought back to the fold. Please help us to do this rather responding to a few ignorant racists by sulking. Mr Paris was a part of the conservative fold at the time of the start of the rot on the union caused by their using Scotland as a Poll tax testing ground.He did not stand out against this.He bears some responsibility for our problems. Please don’t sulk like him.Please stand with us and help us re educate our 45% so that the finest country the world has ever seen may remain united.

    • tolpuddle1

      “The finest country the world has ever seen.” And evidently the most modest.

      • scottish history grad + lawyer

        Modesty about the union and UK has got us into this mess

  • Jane

    As a Scot driven out of my own country when I was a child due to poverty that the English Government imposed on us, I could not vote. However I was praying Scotland would gain its independence. Sadly that didn’t happen. Now I am ashamed to say I am Scottish as the final result of the referendum shows that my fellow Scots don’t even believe in themselves enough to claim our freedom. I fell depressed and angry because once again the British system deprived me of a voice to claim my cultural identity and freedom.Currently I am so overwhelmed with anger, I hate everything British and want to denounce that I was ever born in Scotland which is nothing but a part of the UK. I wish I had never been born there because they have now elected to remain in bondage. May God cruse Britain.

    • tolpuddle1

      Impoverished Scots are as much oppressed by selfishly rich Scots as by any English Establishment. Being oppressed by rich lairds and the smug burghers of Muckelbrothie is as bad as being oppressed by the Chipping Norton set. Scots beware Scots. Money is the issue, not culture.

      SNP or Yes can’t alter this, since Scotland (like England) is trapped in global capitalism as helplessly as a fly stuck on flypaper and would have continued to be even after an 80% Yes vote.

      As someone who detests the current set up in Britain as much as you do, I beg you to pray for God’s healing – and for God to create a spirit of Compassion in Britain, north and south.

      But I doubt whether this can happen until Capitalism goes down – and that’s only a question of When, not If.

    • terence patrick hewett

      Come off the stage Mel: we know you were born in Oz.

      • Jane

        You don’t know anything terence patrick hewett. But we can all dream.

  • tolpuddle1

    The truth of the whole debate is this – the Scots have lost their Mojo.

    It used to be Protestant Christianity, which is no longer there, except among a small minority. Blaming the English won’t help.

  • Terry Field

    I care less about the fate of the Scots than about the fate of the English. I want to see a political dispensation that reflects the nature of the English.
    I have not seen that in my lifetime.
    The proof of that is found in the following words:
    Atlee
    Bevan
    Wilson
    Callaghan
    Blair
    Brown

  • johnb1945

    Matthew Parris expresses the kind of complacency which nearly broke the Union.

    It’s right to care.
    Had Scotland gone it would have done so on a number of false premises.

    The assumption that it would have got 90% of oil wealth – there’s no legal precedent for this.
    That this oil wealth would have funded its (even more) bloated public sector and “social democracy” + a wealth fund.
    That it could have remained unified with such a huge decision won on such tight margins
    That it could have used the £pound without tight fiscal control from Westminster/ the BoE (Independence lite?).
    That it could have used the £pound with no fiscal control from Westminster whilst reneging on debt

    For England and rUK, the result would have been
    At least 18months of speculation and instability
    Possible loss of oil revenues
    Increased debt
    Loss of esteem, crowing about the final demise of our empire.

    And for the rest of the world a green light for any small, potentially resource rich region to go it alone.

    The immediate outcome would not have been good for anyone. We need to nurture this Union we have, and not take it for granted. Devolution for Scotland means something equivalent for rUK, possibly even English regions.

  • country_exile

    Parris really is a ghastly little man and seems to get more so as the years go by.
    I don’t want the Scots to go, or the Welsh or the Northern Irish. We are all British. Some of us are English. That is the glory and strength of the Union.
    I don’t care if this is an unfashionable or even unpopular view. I am delighted the Scots voted to stay with us. Maybe it’s only service in the military that engenders this notion of four tribes as one while celebrating our differences.
    Britain is not dead. We are a family. Families fight, they have feuds, they don’t talk sometimes – but they usually stay together. I hope we can.

  • michael.ellison

    Let’s face it. Most voters everywhere are ignorant of the real truth behind the politics. Did it ever occur to the infatuated ignorant Scots voters that Britain could not let a foreign country (which an indie Scotland would be) have any control over its own currency so an indie Scotland would not get the pound.? Did it ever occur to them that the oil was British oil off the coast of Britain, extracted with British money, and belonged to British voters? and was no more Scottish oil than natural gas off say the Kentish coast was Kentish gas; that if Scotland tried to claim it then the pipelines would just be diverted to England.
    Nearly every voter in Britain has any further belief in the integrity of MPs but the infatuated YES camp seemed to believe that Salmond was different. They didn’t stop to think why he never answered the important question – if Scotland was going to be so oil rich then why couldn’t it support its own currency.
    The answer was obvious;
    Anyone with anything between their ears – and that excludes the infatuated YES voters – knew that HE knew that an oil-rich Scotland was just an illusion.Scotland wasn’t going to get the pound; wasn’t going to get the oil; wasn’t going to have a currency; wasn’t going to be able to trade; was going to go broke. Of course he didn’t bother to explain that but chose to let the ignorant infatuated YES camp believe that the land of milk and honey was just around the corner. In order to further his own position he was quite happy to bury Scotland in ruins.
    Fortunately Scotland was saved by the intelligent NO voters who didn’t trust Salmond
    I think Matthew Parris inhabits a different universe.”Wiser heads in the Better Together campaign have always allowed that Scotland could manage perfectly well as an independent country.” Really? Who were these wiser heads? Has anyone other than himself actually heard of them? or heard them say that? I followed the campaigns closely and I never heard that put forward. The wisest head was Darling and he didn’t allow it.
    Unfortunately Matthew Parris has allowed his emotions to take him into a twilight world with pink skies and blue grass where he can sit on a toadstool and sob into his milk as he wails at the loss of his cherished beliefs. You’ve got to feel sorry for him. Sad really.

  • Siobhan

    This article completely sums up my feelings towards the Scottish, I am an English girl with Scottish parents, My mother born in Scotland to a Scottish mother and an English father moved to England when she was around 4 and my step father is fully Scottish from a poor area of Scotland (the only father I have ever known.) They both live in England with English jobs etc. Before the vote I had a very much a ‘up to you’ mentality but was actually rather please when when the ‘No’ result was announced. however after speaking to my step father and asking how he felt about the vote and hearing his anger and disgust at the result, I felt so rejected this is a man who had lived in England for many years who we had welcomed with open arms disgusted that he was still part of the union! I lost all of the respect that I had ever had for the Scottish, I knew that the Scottish always hated the English but I viewed them as sort of naughty teenage children who were always angry at us who we loved anyway but I now I honestly feel very different and after watching how the Scottish behaved to get the yes vote I can now say that the dislike is mutual. It is a very sad time for the UK.

    • scottish history grad + lawyer

      You can be disgusted with your step father if you wish and it does seem that his is not a logical choice. But it is equally illogical of you to be disgusted with all Scots because of your step father.We voted no.Please help us to change his views.Please don’t sulk with Mr Paris.

  • Wilma Mcewan

    have you not asked yourself why they begged,seems to me that is an important question

  • Wilma Mcewan

    I wish I could say my opinion of the English has changed ,but seems I will always feel the same about them ,so we seem to be in the same boat ,funny how much in common we have

  • KimberLee

    Been reading a lot about Scottish and Irish history lately … I’m surprised anyone wanted to remain a part of England at all. You took away their culture, their identity and invaded as only an egocentric tyrant could! And frankly, when did it ever get better? The writers lack of affection for the Scots now pales in comparison to the historical indignities suffered by nation after nation at the hands of the British.

  • george lancaster

    like english people against scotland on facebook if you feel the same way

  • Serena Hermathya Guanlijia

    If Scotland ceases to be part of UK, then I fear I’ll never feel the same about the Scots again.

  • dean

    You seem to be muddling our dislike of the numpties you vote into power as a dislike of English people in general. Glad we voted to stay now:(

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