Books

When Israel was but a dream

22 February 2014

9:00 AM

22 February 2014

9:00 AM

‘On the night of 15 April 1897, a small, elegant steamer is en route from Egypt’s Port Said to Jaffa.’ ‘At the end of October 1898 the small steamer Rossiya made its way from Alexandria in Egypt, via Port Said, to Jaffa.’ It is unusual, or maybe even unique, for the first chapters of two books published at the same time to open with almost identical sentences. But then My Promised Land and Herzl are telling different sides of the same tale: the story of Zionism from the beginning, one of the strangest, most romantic, most bewildering episodes in modern history, and to this day one of the most bitterly contentious

Aboard that first steamer to Jaffa was ‘the Rt. Honourable Herbert Bentwich’, as Ari Shavit calls him, although the official record doesn’t suggest that he was entitled to the prefix of a Privy Councillor, for all his considerable distinction. He was a London Jew, one of the first generation of his family, originally from Poland, to be British-born; the son, grandson and great-grandson of rabbis; a successful lawyer; and the great-grandfather of Shavit, himself a celebrated Israeli newspaper and television commentator.

As Shavit says, the Israeli question cannot usefully be answered with polemics, though that doesn’t stop them pelting down like this winter’s rain. Instead, he has made a fascinating personal odyssey, a voyage round the past and present of ‘the Jewish State’, as an idea and a reality. That was the title of the little book published in 1896 by Theodore Herzl, ‘a German Jew from Hungary’, in his own words, who became a Viennese journalist. And it was he who, as the Israel political theorist Shlomo Avineri relates in his new biography, was travelling in the Rossiya to make his first visit the Holy Land, where he would meet Kaiser Wilhelm II: from the beginning the Zionist enterprise would be bound up in the great game of international power politics.

Born in Budapest in 1860, Herzl moved to Vienna and law school. But he soon found his metier in journalism, as a litterateur, essayist and playwright; and Zionism was indeed a very literary movement from the beginning. Herzl’s early years were a time of hope for European Jews, who had seemingly achieved longed-for emancipation in many countries. But then hopes were dashed, with the dramatic rise of the new aggressive anti-Semitism associated with almost every nationalist movement. Herzl experienced it close at hand, from student fraternities which banned Jews to the Dreyfus affair, which he covered as Paris correspondent of the Vienna Neue Freie Presse, witnessing for himself the hideous ceremony in Paris when Alfred Dreyfus was degraded in front of a mob baying for Jewish blood.

After toying with other far-fetched ideas, such as the mass conversion to Christianity of the Jews of the Habsburg monarchy, Herzl then conceived what he called ‘the answer to the Jewish question’, though many Jews at the time thought it no less far-fetched. Herzl said, as it were: if you can’t join them, beat them. Since European nationalism had turned on the Jews, let the Jews turn away from Europe, and create their own nation, with a national home and state, in the land where their forebears had lived a few thousand years before. Which is to say that while Herzl was an attractive personality and a gifted writer, he was a luftmensch, a dreamer or even fantasist


His preferred method of advancing his cause was parlaying with power. He made the acquaintance of Prince Philip von Eulenburg, the German ambassador in Vienna, who told him ‘the Kaiser is very warmly inclined toward the project’. Then Herzl met the Grand Duke of Baden and Bernhard von Bülow, the foreign minister in Berlin. He travelled on to Constantinople while the Kaiser was making a vainglorious progress through the Ottoman lands, culminating in Jerusalem. It was there that Herzl and his Zionist delegation, impeccably dressed despite the intense heat, presented themselves to the Kaiser, and received a somewhat Delphic answer: ‘The matter, in any case, requires thorough study and further discussion.’

Shortly before his death in 1904 at only 44, Herzl had visited Rome, where he met King Victor Emmanuel III, who expressed sympathy for the scheme while saying, quite truly, that the small Italian Jewish community was fully integrated and engaged in public life. The Pope was another matter. Pius X was the most intransigently dogmatic pontiff of the past century, and he spelled out what would be the Vatican’s position until at least the 1960s: ‘The Jews have not recognised our Lord, therefore we cannot recognise the Jewish people.’

But for Herzl, the immediate problem was resistance from Jews rather than Christian leaders. Avineri touches on this, although he could have made more of it. Herzl’s scheme was utterly rejected and bitterly resented by many emancipated Jews, notably the owners and editors of Herzl’s own paper, as a challenge to their own hard-won position as citizens of the countries where they lived. And it was anathematised by devout Jews, among them the Chief Rabbi of Vienna, as a blasphemous anticipation of the Almighty’s own work.

At the time of Herzl’s death, Herbert Bentwich had been converted from the traditional position he still supported when he landed at Jaffa, favouring no more than humanitarian resettlement of Jews in Palestine, to Herzl’s own political Zionism. And part of what makes My Promised Land so absorbing is this family story. Herbert’s son Norman Bentwich was a barrister and colonial civil servant who became first attorney general of British Mandatory Palestine until he clashed with the authorities in the person of Sir John Chancellor, the High Commissioner. But he was an eirenic moderate, who pursued the remote ideal of a bi-national state shared by Arabs and Jews, before returning to England.

Rather than a consecutive narrative, Shavit gives chapter-by-chapter snapshots, from ‘At First Sight 1897’ to ‘Existential Challenge 2013’. We meet, for example, Aryah Deri, who grew up in some comfort and security in Morocco until the cataclysm which followed the Six Day War in 1967. Fleeing with his family, he later became a leader of the Orthodox Oriental Jewish party, and a cabinet minister, until charged with corruption. He personifies two of the schisms within Israel, between religious and secular, and between the Oriental Jews and the Ashkenazi or European elite who had founded the state and ‘thought that most of the people who emigrated from the Arab world were primitive’.

Then the family plot thickens further. Shavit’s father and uncle were both closely connected with the building of an Israeli nuclear bomb at Dimona. Shavit meets one of their colleagues, the anonymous head engineer of the Dimona project, whose father was killed by an Arab gunman in 1943, and who worked on the great, secret project as a form of recompense. ‘Secret’ it was supposed to be, but Dimona has always been an ‘unknown known’, to borrow the ingenious coining of Fintan O’Toole, after Donald Rumsfeld’s ‘known knowns, known unknowns …’ O’Toole has in mind the sundry outrages in his own country, from the unchecked abuse of power by the Catholic church to some of the most corrupt politicians in Europe. But none of these was really a dark secret: everyone in Ireland more or less knew, but they preferred to ‘unknow’ or ignore them.

And so with Dimona, for all that the Israeli government has never admitted that it has nuclear weapons — and so also with ‘Lydda 1948’, a chapter which has been published in the New Yorker and caused some stir. Shavit unsparingly describes the forcible expulsion of up to 50,000 Palestinian Arabs during the fighting which established the new state: ‘Lydda is our black box. In it lies the dark secret of Zionism.’ But again, there was never any real secret here, even if successive Israeli governments did their best to make it one. In 1979, when Yitzhak Rabin, a once and future prime minister who would die at a Jewish assassin’s hand in 1995, published his memoirs, they originally contained a frank account of how he, as a brigade commander acting at the behest of David Ben-Gurion, drove out the Arabs of Lydda. This passage was suppressed by an Israeli censorship board. All the same, anyone who wanted to know could have known.

Now Shavit muses about these two unknown knowns. The unnamed nuclear engineer took part in the destruction of Arab villages in 1948. And so ‘Even if he does not say so, it is clear that a straight line leads from those villages to Dimona … Because of those dead villages it was clear that the Palestinians would always try to flatten us.’ But then Shavit still sees a stark personal choice: ‘Either reject Zionism because of Lydda, or accept Zionism along with Lydda.’

We have come a long way from those steamers with their dreamers arriving at Jaffa in the reign of Victoria, and the days when Herzl the romantic imagined that the Arabs would welcome the Zionists with open arms. By contrast Shavit thinks himself a hardened realist, but maybe he’s another kind of luftmensch. He says, what by now is a pious platitude repetitiously reiterated in every other op-ed column, that there must be a Palestinian state if Israel itself is to survive as a democratic Jewish state. But what if one thinks, as some of us by now do, that the ‘two-state settlement’ is a chimera, and that, if a moment for achieving this ever existed, it has now passed?

Toward the end Shavit muses that, ‘if Herbert Bentwich had not been overcome by an obsessive yearning for Zion’ the family would have remained in England. ‘I like to think I could have been a literature don at Oxford or a producer at the BBC. My life would be much more relaxed and far safer than my Israeli life. My children’s future would not be under a cloud. But would I have had a richer inner life?’ Well, there are Jewish dons who might like to answer that; or at least, as the Oxford exam papers used to say: ‘Discuss.’

Available from the Spectator Bookshop, My Promised Land: The Triumph and Tragedy of Zionism, £18.00, Herzl: Theodore Herzl and the Foundation of the Jewish State, £16.00,  Tel: 08430 600033. Geoffrey Wheatcroft is a former literary editor of The Spectator and the author of The Controversy of Zion.

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Show comments
  • PatrickMehr

    Regarding the creation of the State of Israel, these eBooks are now available:

    – the definitive account of the Dreyfus Affair http://plunkettlakepress.com/ta.html

    – Chaim Weizmann’s autobiography http://plunkettlakepress.com/te.html

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      Patrick , do you get commission on the sale of the books?
      all 20 of your comments on your profile have links to websites selling books, that IMO is highly suspicious

      • PatrickMehr

        I am the Publisher of Plunkett Lake Press (http://plunkettlakepress.com). We publish these eBooks, which are pertinent to this story , and others: http://plunkettlakepress.com/catalog.html

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          Patrick that’s called ” advertising” and defeats the purpose of expressing ones original thoughts & opinions on any given subject with ones peers

          • Doggie Roussel

            That might have some validity had you ever had a single original thought or opinion.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            when it comes to Zionism , you know full well that I am the resident Zionist troublemaker – no good blog should be without one !

          • PatrickMehr

            The information I provided is useful to readers of this Spectator piece; if the Spectator thinks otherwise, it can remove my comment.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Bravo Mr Mehr… Beware, this well-balanced geezer, with chips on both shoulders, is a psychopathic cyber bully, banned throughout cyberspace !

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            got any ketchup to go with my chips, or didn’t the Jesuits let you have any with your bowl of gruel ?

          • Doggie Roussel

            The Jesuits, at the very least educated me… something which is quite obviously nonexistent in your own case.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            the last thing anybody needs is a Jesuit education unless they intend to apply for the position of Grand Inquisitor

          • Doggie Roussel

            An utterly feeble and humourless response… much as we have come to expect from a dullard, like you.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            Billy no mates, how come you have not returned to Thompsons blog if you miss sparkling responses, I’m sure Micky & Phill will oblige you with the pearls of wisdom you so desire

          • Doggie Roussel

            Or even the Papacy, perhaps ….

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            Phil has his eye on the job

          • Doggie Roussel

            Well he’ll have to prise it off Pope Francis I…. the first Jesuit elected to the Papacy.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            but first you will have to prise Phil’s tongue from up Thompsons backside

          • Doggie Roussel

            Ah, spurned by the sainted Damian… that’s what is really getting up your Zionist hooter…

            You did try so hard with Damian, didn’t you, O Multi-Monikered One…. and all to no avail.

            He had no time for your puerile attempts at humour; your pathetic pleas for acceptance and approval, your ranting and hectoring Zionism… to name but a couple of your odious character traits.

            Now you have been ousted by Phil, whoever he might be, who has achieved the sort of putsch that you were so hell bent on. It must be so galling to have been trounced by an Iberian donkey breeder… to no longer receive those late evening billets doux from your adoring Essex Girl Madonna… Dear Maha… you were magnificent tonight, so macho and persuasive… so utterly sparkling and witty… ma cherie… je t’adore…

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I thought that the lady you refer to with longing & desire is resident in Stockport. I have no contact with her besides the DT blog & have other knowledge at all about her likes or dislikes in the way you imply & she certainly has never expressed any such sentiments to anybody on the blog

          • Doggie Roussel

            I had no idea of where she comes from… but her glottal stops and Ian Dury verbals certainly have a tang of the Thames Estuary… you obviously know her far better than I do.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I am a South London born plonker, educated in Dulwich & at a good University & have no more familiarity with the tang of the Thames Estuary than I do with any other regional dialect

          • Doggie Roussel

            Ah, that would be the Benjamin Netanyahu Polytechnic in Primrose Hill, frequented by the Marxist Milliband family and other patriotic Zionists.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Well he’ll have to prise it off Pope Francis I…. the first Jesuit elected to the Papacy.

          • PatrickMehr

            Thanks. Unlike you, this is my first encounter with him. He cannot be as “bad” a “bully” as some high-ranking officers in the French Army who for a decade starting in 1894 framed Captain Alfred Dreyfus — Generals Mercier, de Boisdeffre, Gonse, etc: http://plunkettlakepress.com/ta.html depicts a fascinating collection of such “bullies”, who fabricated forgeries and illegally influenced courts to that effect.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            Patrick, you are wasting your time. Doggie, who has gone by a host of blogging names, is an Anti-Semite.
            I’m sure you are well aware that that Herzl was a reporter who covered the Dreyfus trial & it was the Anti-Semitic riots in the streets of France that convinced him that Jewish assimilation into society would not end Anti-Semitism & thus the seeds of the modern Zionist movement were born

          • Doggie Roussel

            Shortly, Mahatma, you will have yet another nom de plume, possibly, Janus, to depict your duplicity and two-faced proclivities… not to mention your humongous inferiority and persecution complexes. Dreyfus was indeed the subject of a huge miscarriage of justice and the French behaved quite reprehensibly and have had to live with their equivocation and hypocrisy ever since.

            But you are quite another kettle of fish who besmirches the perception of modern Zionism with your rabid outbursts and declamatory denials of the rights of other Semites in the Levant.

            You are without doubt the most odious, hate-filled bigot to have ever graced these pages.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            the Arabs have no right to reside anywhere in the Levant.
            Our right enshrined in Genesis 15:18 , is God given for all eternity . We are back in our rightful land , so get used to it , I leave the enjoyment to being at the mercy of the Muzzies to you in Engladesh

          • Doggie Roussel

            Quod Erat Demonstrandum

            You are a foaming-mouthed nutter… condemned out of your own mouth.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            is that why you can’t get enough of me, Billy no mates?
            anyway , I’m off to bed now, unlike you, I have a job .

          • Doggie Roussel

            So glad you have a job, possibly cleaning the latrines in Evitas… why do you assume that I don’t have a ‘job’, I don’t, actually… I sold a successful business and now enjoy the fruits of my labours… one of the pleasures of which is putting nasty bigots, like you, back in your boxes !

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I never said what you do is illegal, merely that it does not fall under the category of readers comments.

    • Matt McLaughlin

      The Origins of Christian Zionism: Lord Shaftesbury and Evangelical
      Support for a Jewish Homeland

      Donald M. Lewis:

      The Balfour Declaration operated enshrouded in secrecy, gave no reasons for the Declaration, outlined
      no conditions – other than those in the Declaration itself – and expected no
      accountability. The Declaration was not debated in either of the Houses of
      Parliament and like most foreign policy issues, was never approved by the
      British legislature.

      Many Zionists were Jewish converts to evangelical
      Christianity who did much to shape the development of popular evangelical thinking in these matters. It was this Protestant religious discourse that
      marked the family backgrounds of many of the key members of the British
      political elite responsible for formulating the Balfour Declaration.

      http://assets.cambridge.org/97805215/15184/excerpt/9780521515184_excerpt.pdf

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        lay off the booze & cannabis

        • Doggie Roussel

          A profound and deeply well-reasoned argument… perhaps illustrating the cornerstone of modern Zionism !

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I leave expertise on booze, cannabis & the unfortunate consequences of failed Jesuit schooling to you Sanctimony

  • mahatmacoatmabag

    be wary of post Zionist revisionism, its an attempt by the Left to delegitimize Israel by rewriting history

    • Doggie Roussel

      Hi, Pudding on my Top Hat, Colonel George Custard, Emmanuel Goldstein, Spycatcher, Swiftly & with Style, Persecuted2extinction, Xtracrunchy & Daz… to mention but a few…

      Why have you quit the DT & DT… persecuted to extinction, no doubt…

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        No , I have just cut down posting on Thompsons tribute blog to Phil, Micky , Custard & his beloved Fabian Solutions and post elsewhere on the DT.

        • Doggie Roussel

          Yes, he clocked up over 4000 posts without any help from you on his latest blog, I see… you are obviously not much missed…

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I am on there as xtracrunchy & daz, but as usual with Damians blogs , the initial response starts out well & then the attack of the Fabian trolls begins and the blog degenerates into a war zone till people lose interest in it & the blog fizzles out

    • Doggie Roussel

      Hi, Tastemylogos, Geronimoooo4… and 6 other bagman aliases… you really are a seriously sad git !

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        neither Tastemylogos or Geronimoooo4 are my aliases

    • Steve Peters

      As opposed to the Zionist Right’s complete fabrication of history in the first place?

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        Steve Peters, made up name of recently created Anti-Semitic Troll ID on Disqus, 7 posts all directed against Jews & Israel, thank you for exposing yourself as a Jew hating charlatan , sincerely yours Mahatmacoatmabag , Jew & Zionist , IDF veteran, resident of Tel Aviv, veteran poster on Disqus 6686 comments, 18068 up votes

        • Doggie Roussel

          You realise that you are suffering from Tourette’s, Bagman ?

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        Steve Peters, made up name of recently created Anti-Semitic Troll ID on Disqus, 7 posts all directed against Jews & Israel, thank you for exposing yourself as a Jew hating charlatan , sincerely yours Mahatmacoatmabag , Jew & Zionist , IDF veteran, resident of Tel Aviv, veteran poster on Disqus 6686 comments, 18068 up votes

        • Doggie Roussel

          What a poxy ratio of votes !

        • Steve Peters

          Wow, just wow. I’d heard of hysterical and delusional right wing Zionist fanatics, who having lost the debate, resort to fatuous name calling to deflect any objective examination of the truth, but I’ve never encountered one before. Yes, I’m new to Diqus, (I bet you started with 1 comment); Yes I have an interest in what’s going on in the Israel-Palestine conflict; Yes, I call it as I see it. Perhaps with 6686 comments worth of “experience” you could take time to welcome a newcomer and show them the “errors of their ways” instead of all this unprovoked hate speech. Perhaps you are in fact the true face of Zionism. Thank you for making that clear to everyone

          • Doggie Roussel

            He’s out on day-release from Broadmoor, Steve….

            If you think the Bagman is a nutter, you should clock his mates :

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA

          • Steve Peters

            ROFL!! If only that were true, he could be dismissed as a (harmless/harmfull) crank. Unfortunately he’s not alone and, in my view at least, a fundamental part of the problem, not the solution.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            your post only warrants a short reply as to your being on here ( and elsewhere ) to objectively debate the Israel-Arab conflict: Not True, you are on here to promote the Arab Islamo-Fascist position

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        Steve Peters is a brand new Troll ID created to post Anti-Semitic comments & should be banned

      • AlexanderMacedonia

        You have a completely skewed version of history. Israel was originally a left-wing state, and thus received UN approval, it has since become right-wing, and you guessed it.

        Its very much the Hamas who have attempted to write their own history, esp of recent events, through manipulating media, staging events moving childrens’ bodies to beaches and recycling old images from other conflicts, eg, Iraq.

  • Daniel Maris

    I will always think an opportunity was missed in 1945 to create a homeland for Jews in central Europe. The Germans fully expected dire punishment for their awful crimes. Populations were being shifted all over Europe. I think if the allies had decided to divest Germany of Bavaria and make it a Jewish state for all Jews in Europe, it would have been a great success. I think the Germans would have accommodated themselves to the loss and the Jews must surely have made a great success of the state. It would have been a early member of the EU.

    The Jews would have been incalcuably safer there than they are now in Israel, surrounded by 500 million Muslims, most of whom desire the destruction of the Jews and their homeland.

    • Doggie Roussel

      The Bavarians might have though otherwise… eventually there would have been a conflict that would have put the Northern Ireland conflict in the shade.

      • Daniel Maris

        The Germans lost East Prussia. As far as I know they are not claiming it back and the East Prussians who lived there, or their descendants, are resigned to the loss.

        • Doggie Roussel

          Aren’t some of them now living in Buck House in considerable luxury… perhaps why they are not complaining …

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      rubbish , like the Uganda plan, rubbish. Only the Land of Israel is ours, from the Nile to the Euphrates , no more no less ( read Genesis 15:18 )

      • Doggie Roussel

        And out of the many religions and nations of the world should one give credence to the Jewish DIY manual and the cranky words contained n Genesis, which appears to give the Jews their authority to oppress their neighbours in the Middle East.

        Are we seriously expected to believe all that mumbo jumbo and hocus pocus in the Old Testament… if so, we’d be up all night stoning homosexuals and killing adulteresses… Leviticus, I believe… another of your prophets…

        • hacimo

          It is rendered in the oldest alphabet (of those still used). And you would be hard pressed to find anything about homosexuals in Leviticus.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Plenty of sex, drugs and rock n’ roll in Leviticus, old buddy…. that dude had the whole gamut… from sh…ing your granny to eating pigs and scampi… makes Hemingway look like a beginner’s manual…

          • hacimo

            Leviticus does not have anything to say against gay sex. There are some other passages which might be interpreted as forbidding gay sex, but not leviticus.

          • Doggie Roussel

            OK… it must be Pick-a-Prophet day !

      • Matt McLaughlin

        In 1891, Ginzberg had made his first visit to the Jewish
        > settlements in Palestine. It resulted in an important essay,
        > The Truth from Palestine. What distinguished his report from
        > the gushing accounts of other Jewish visitors was the sober
        > realism with which he noted the many problems. High among
        > them was the existence of an indigenous population. “We
        > tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost
        > completely deserted, an uncultivated wilderness, and anyone
        > can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires.
        > But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find
        > anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow.”
        > He makes short work of the argument that lesser breeds can
        > be duped about Zionist intentions and bought off with the
        > benefits of colonialism. “The Arab, like all Semites,
        > has a sharp mind and is full of cunning … [They]
        > understand very well what we want and what we do in the
        > country, but … at present they do not see any danger for
        > themselves or their future in what we are doing and
        > therefore are trying to turn to their advantage these new
        > guests … But when the day will come in which the life of
        > our people in the Land of Israel will develop to such a
        > degree that they will push aside the local population by
        > little or by much, then it will not easily give up its
        > place.”
        >

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          So we are to rewrite Zionist history on the basis of one jaundiced report that did not tally with the many detailed, truthful & verifiable reports by others, just because it fits your anti-Israel & grossly anti-Semitic agenda?

          Best if you give up now, you are dealing with the undefeated Zionist enemy who makes no apology for not allowing your kind to complete phase 2 of the final solution

          • Matt McLaughlin

            dear einstein, reformed jews don’t believe in Zionism.

            Zionism is a product of European history and one of the last movements in contemporary history that set out to transform man and society. Both Zionists and their opponents agree that Zionism and the State of Israxl constitute a revolution in Jewish history, a revolution that began with the emancipation and the secularization of European Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries.

            Secularization, which affected many Jews in Europe, was a necessary, albeit not a sufficient, factor in the emergence of Zionism. Another important factor was resistance against the entry of Jews into European society, which coalesced into the secular ideology of racial or scientific anti-Semitism. Unlike Christian anti-Judaism, which aimed at salvation through conversion, modern anti-Semitism considers Jews to be a race or a people intrinsically alien, even hostile, to Europe, its population and its civilization.

            Secularization also revolutionized Jewish identity from within: traditional Jews can be distinguished by what they do or should do; the new Jews by what they are. While they practice the same religion, it would be truly daring to assume that Jews fromPoland, Yemen and Morocco belong to the same ethnic group, let alone are descendents of the Biblical Hebrews.>Yakov M Rabkin

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            You are a disciple of Igonikon Jack , the blogosphere’s premier Cut & Paste plagariser of the infantile writings of others & I claim my £5 prize

          • Matt McLaughlin

            tr just israel’z bytch, thats all. ring thru the nose n all.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            having read your profile I find you condemned by your own repeated copy & paste anti-Semitic posting rants & do not consider you to be a intellectual anti-Semite but a failed run of the mill Jew hater, the kind who are 10 a penny on the web

            mahatmacoatmabag : 6665 comments 17886 up votes
            Matt McLughlin: 714 comments but a pathetic 253 up votes

            whoever is paying you is not getting good value for money

          • Doggie Roussel

            I wouldn’t go down that road, Bagman… you are completely small fry in the context of the most rational, intelligent and bigoted posters on these pages.

            You ratings don’t even manage 3 per post… quite pathetic !

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            this backwater of human intellect with pond life like you is not my principal place of blogging on the web, as it happens I frequent several closed member forums far more often than the public blogosphere

          • Doggie Roussel

            Hit a raw nerve, have I, I think your inadequacies are illustrated by the reactions, or lack of them, on these pages.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Just as well they’re closed !

          • Doggie Roussel

            So, nearly 7000 of your bedraggled comments are not to be considered a significant contribution to cyberspace ?

          • Doggie Roussel

            Tee-hee …

          • Doggie Roussel

            Good Lord !

            When and where do you find time to eat and sleep… let alone perform all the other bodily functions that are necessary for survival ?

            I am seriously impressed at your superhuman stamina.

          • hacimo

            He is a jew. Thus nothing unusual.

          • Doggie Roussel

            He is most certainly a Jew…

          • Doggie Roussel

            Looking at both of your inane witterings, I wouldn’t want to estimate the odds on who had the lower IQ.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            my shoe size is larger than my IQ, yet you are unable to better me

          • Doggie Roussel

            I’m so sorry, I never realised you had a club foot…

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I wear Zionist Doc Martens

          • tastemylogos

            you are brilliant. this exactly how these jew haters should be responded to…. with disdain.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            cheers.
            you will find me posting on here from time to time & elsewhere with my original ID of mahatmacoatmabag, on the Jerusalem Post as Pudding on my Top Hat , with the same Avatar ( but watch out for the clone of both Pudding & the Mahatma on there ) & on the Telegraph you will find me as xtracrunchy with a different ID altogether

          • Doggie Roussel

            You must stop up-ticking your own posts, mahatma… the fact that every account is privatisesd is a bit of a giveaway… don’t you think ?

            Also, this a pretty barren blog… so possibly a bit strange this sudden surge of interest…. n’est-ce pas?

          • Doggie Roussel

            This dreadful humbug, the multi-monikered Mahatma, is a perfect example of Pavlov’s Dog… Show a Jew a well-reasoned argument or posit and there is an inbred instant screech of protest and the assumption of persecution, of which the Jews have now claimed the patent.

            The Killing Fields in Cambodia, the mass murders of Stalin, the atrocities of Mao.. which far outnumbered the victims of the Holocaust are mere sideshows in the shadow of the sufferings of the Jews of which we are reminded daily… as should be the case… but for God’s sake let the many other oppressed and slaughtered peoples of the world have their moment in the grievance stakes.

            I would like to call to mind clauses 10 and 11 of the Magna Carta which gives some interesting insights in to our friends from the Levant.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            Copy & Paste does equate with intellect, not that you Billy no mates, suffer from intellect

          • Doggie Roussel

            Er… please elucidate.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            why?
            I recall somebody posting you the epithet of Billy no mates a few years back on the DT & it has the ring of truth about it

          • Doggie Roussel

            Never heard that one… not that it would bother me… but i thought you had labelled me as Sailor Billy, until your friend the Cyborg whatever had wised you up to being an alias of Phil.

            You really must try harder, Bagman…

          • Doggie Roussel

            Your new catch phrase, ‘cut & paste’… pathetic… do try something slightly more cerebral and less trite.

          • mahatmacoatmabag

            I shall leave you to have the last word, Billy.
            I am required elsewhere & so good night Billy, I leave you to post some memorable lines of sparkling wit that will only be read by you or some other unfortunate blogger sheltering from the rain at a soup kitchen

          • Doggie Roussel

            Cock-a-doodle-doo !

          • hacimo

            So you now admit they are from the levant? The liar always slips over his story.

          • Doggie Roussel

            Of course they are from the Levant… they’re f…… Israelites, aren’t they !

          • Doggie Roussel

            Doesn’t the Levant include the Mediterranean coastal regions of Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, and Israel… do you now plan to annexe all these regions ?

      • Daniel Maris

        I was only trying to help! LOL Just don’t think locating yourself in a sea of 500 million haters is that great an idea.

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          Its al the fault of Moses he stammered & when the Israelites fleeing Egypt asked him ” Moses where are we going ? ” he tried to reply “cccccccc…….aaaa…..nnnn….aaaa …..ddddd……aaaa ” and instead of Canada , the scouts took it a Canaan , so we ended up here in a sea of 500 million haters who have all the Oil

          • Doggie Roussel

            Canada must have heaved a huge sigh of relief !

  • Matt McLaughlin
  • Snecma

    Israel, the dream that turned into a nightmare.

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      a nightmare for Jew haters like yourself

      • Matt McLaughlin

        Its not that youre Jewish. Its that your european and all european Jews are Jewish by conversion. You were Promised nothing.

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          that is your stupidest remark so far, but the night is still young

          • Doggie Roussel

            I believe that the only thing that Matt (not Mahatma) is alluding to is that the Jews have migrated over many centuries in order to specialise in the talents with which they were blessed: usury, casuistry etc.

            In other words they have insinuated themselves into the many countries of the world in order to foster their money-making scams and multi-decibel screeches of oppression and persecution.

            I am amazed that Leviticus, for example, does not contain a template for a profit & loss account.

        • tastemylogos

          ha

    • Putinov

      It was the nightmare that turned into… the nightmare.

      • jjjj

        Hope you continue to endure the nightmare. But any distraction from what your hero is doing in Russia, right?

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          probably he is busy preparing to have Russian forces in the Crimea drive on Kiev

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        I hope you enjoy many more nightmares

  • Retired Nurse

    there are some awfully racist people in Israeli poltics now…I was watching this on yourtube,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA and thought Michael Ben Ari made Oswald Moseley look liberal…

    • jjjj

      So one Israeli politician says something but you conveniently overlook the fact that your Islamofascist bretheren shoot (to kill) said African refugees on their way to Israel. And your whitewashing of Moseley and Hitler tells us more about your antisemitism.

      • Doggie Roussel

        One politician… have you seen the YouTube clip ???

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA

        The mind boggles!

        • mahatmacoatmabag

          your mind is too miniscule to boggle

          • Doggie Roussel

            Just look at this, yet again… and it’s not something which I just disinterred…. Jeez you have some rampant racists in Israel

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPxv4Aff3IA

            A whole new perspective of Zionism !

          • Doggie Roussel

            Ha ha, Bagman … I see that xtracruchy & Daz have bitten the dust !

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      are you a retired nurse or an escaped mental patient hiding from the nurse?

      • Doggie Roussel

        God, you really are the most puerile git…

    • Doggie Roussel

      Wow, Retired Nurse, that is powerful stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v it certainly puts some perspective into the situation in that benighted corner of the globe… well done !

      • mahatmacoatmabag

        Nurse still does private visits, she/he can come & give you your pills

  • Borg-again Cyber Atheist

    In the best case scenario, if all the peoples of the world unite under God, then the Jews will still be the Jews.

    Give them a homeland, and have done with it.

    • mahatmacoatmabag

      Amen

    • Steve Peters

      Totally agree but in reality, they already have two; one in America, the other in Israel. Strangely perhaps, 60% of Jewish people worldwide prefer to live anywhere else in the world but Israel and I heard recently that many of those who do are applying for Spanish passports. Now there’s irony..

      • AlexanderMacedonia

        Because you cretins are bombing Israel.

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