Rod Liddle

Ukip is a party for people who hate London. That’s why Labour should be scared

8 November 2014

9:00 AM

8 November 2014

9:00 AM

It is interesting that neither Scotland nor Wales have been much bitten by the Ukip bug. The supposedly sensible view is that both of these countries are more kindly disposed towards the European Union than are the English — and that Ukip’s contempt for the European Parliament and its politicians is seen as another example of that rather too familiar English jingoism and xenophobia, commodities which are not terribly popular either north of Berwick or west of Monmouth. It is also sometimes mentioned that immigration is far less of an issue in Wales and Scotland — unless we are talking about English immigration, which does indeed tend to make the Jocks and the Taffs reach for their tins of paraffin from time to time. Well, sure. There’s probably a modicum of truth in both of these arguments — but it’s the deciding factor only if you see Ukip’s rise primarily as a consequence of its opposition to the EU and its tough line on immigration. I do not, entirely.

I think the question of EU membership scarcely impinges upon most of the voters who — in Clacton and Heywood and (as we shall see) Rochester — decided to clamber aboard Nigel Farage’s somewhat ramshackle and undoubtedly gas-guzzling bandwagon. Indeed, a recent opinion poll suggested that the public was slightly more favourably inclined towards the EU at the moment than it has been for several years. Christ alone knows why this should be. But there we are.


Immigration is undoubtedly a critical issue, and especially so among former Labour party voters; blue-collar workers of a certain age. But I suspect that the real pull of Ukip in England is that the party, and Mr Farage particularly, are seen as a corrective to the vapid, flaccid, spineless, politically correct and wholly London-centric mitherings of what, until May next year, we must call the main three parties. That is also why Ukip does not do terribly well in London itself — despite its leader’s long immersion in the Square Mile, making sacks of wonga, Ukip has become the anti-London party. Its views on such stuff as immigration, wind farms and to an extent smoking, gay marriage, Islam and so on, are not so much ‘right-wing’ as simply ‘not London’. I have long held that the split between the capital and the rest of the nation has widened to the extent that we are now effectively two separate countries: an insulated, affluent and achingly liberal city-state on the one hand, and on the other, the rest of England — from Truro to Carlisle, but especially north of the Wash. It is the London establishment, and its fatuous and self-serving shibboleths, which is loathed throughout the rest of the country, in a way which has not quite been seen before, even if there was always a certain divide. The London of Cameron, Miliband and Clegg, and the BBC and Channel 4 and the quangos and extremely well-fed and gobby third sector institutions, and the lawyers and the bankers; the establishment. Oh, and its money and its comfort — a much-trumpeted economic recovery which has simply not been experienced anywhere else. London is not much liked, and still less admired, beyond its smug satellites and dormitories (which admittedly now stretch into the south Midlands). And Ukip has tapped into this reservoir of discontent with great success.

Which brings me back to Scotland and Wales. My guess is that the campaign for independence in Scotland drew momentum from precisely this feeling. Not an anti-Englishness per se, but an anti-London and anti-Westminster frame of mind. My suspicion is that the Scots felt a great distance from London, an exponentially greater distance than they felt separated them from, say, Newcastle, Manchester or Birmingham. And they have a convenient conduit for this disaffection in both the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish National Party. The same is true, to an only slightly lesser extent, in Wales: National Assembly and Plaid Cymru. Ukip performs badly in Scotland and Wales because the potent anti-London sentiment is robustly promulgated by the nationalist parties. There is, then, no great need for Ukip in Scotland and Wales.

But increasingly, there is no need for Labour, either. Labour is perhaps more a party of London, these days, than either the Liberal Democrats or the Conservatives. It is led, ineptly, by someone who is almost the personification of effete, metropolitan-liberal milquetoast opinion (and yet who represents Doncaster, because Doncaster’s a safe seat, for a while). The party has become upper-middle-class and southern — all the while still raking in the votes from its old redoubts in the post-industrial north of the country. I wonder how long it will be able to do so. There is already evidence that Ukip is gnawing away at the voters who have been Labour all their lives but have now had enough. And  look at the latest opinion poll from Scotland. Ipsos-Mori suggested that if an election were held now, Labour would lose all but four of its 40 seats in Scotland, including the seat currently occupied by Douglas Alexander. Hell, you’d need a heart of stone not to laugh, wouldn’t you?

One suspects that this disaffection with Labour will, sooner or later, spread south of the border. The Scots are ditching Labour for the SNP because the SNP has tenure; it can win elections, it can rule. And while politically they may have little in common, the same tranche of thoroughly hacked off blue-collar workers south of the border might soon consider that Ukip has the same sort of potential. And then where will Labour be?

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Show comments
  • If only Churchill could see what the country he led to freedom has become now. The ‘downing of the flag’ the article mentions across the Empire has now shamefully happened in the country itself. We’ve seen the mass import of the 4 million strong Mohammedanism ideology and its effect on British working class children (Rotherham,taxis,takeaway,easy meat) he so prophetically and correctly denounced. To take pride in one’s country, as he did, is now equated with racism and fascism. We’re part of a European superstate which has robbed us of the freedom he helped us win. There are conditions in Europe now which may once again see a rise of the extremist ideologies he opposed.

    How we need people of his character, wisdom, and courage now. And in great numbers. Instead we have utter planks like LibLAbCon.
    Vote to restore Great Britain Vote UKIP

    • Randy McDonald

      “Rotherham”

      Rotherham seems to have been a consequence, rather, of English people deciding that English children were not worth protecting and doing so for a decade.

      “EU SSR”

      So you understand neither the European Union nor the Soviet Union?

      • Rik

        Your right the atrocities in Rotherham and so many other places were ignored by fanatical left wing swine more interested in votes than the welfare of children.
        You approve of this??

        • Randy McDonald

          I’ll note I never said this.

          As I pointed out elsewhere, Rotherham’s police and others seemed to look down on the girls involved on account of their being sexually active. What happened could never have happened if not for a traditional English (and other!) dislike for females who don’t behave “properly”.

          • andyrwebman

            You’re really fixed on this “disdain for women” thing aren’t you?

            I thiny you’re barking up slightly the wrong tree, in that the police – and perhaps english in general – have a disdain for the noisy chav sort of girls. I don’t think there are many in England who, hearing an educated girl’s account of abuse, would not be outraged.

            As for the girls in question – it’s the police’s job to be out amongst these girls promoting law abiding behaviour. Dismissing one incident as “girlish twaddle” is one thing, but dismissing a whole chain of incidents without investigating is negligence – or willful ignorance – on a shoclking scale.

            Finally, it’s equally correct to say that a traditional English view is based on politeness and chivalry towards women. That involves protectiveness – not disdain.

          • Randy McDonald

            You write:

            “I thiny you’re barking up slightly the wrong tree, in that the police –
            and perhaps english in general – have a disdain for the noisy chav sort
            of girls.”

            You also write:

            “it’s equally correct to say that a traditional English view is based on politeness and chivalry towards women.”

            I’d suggest your writings indicate that the English view on women varies according to how much they are seen as deserving protection.

          • Robert Andersen

            No pal, it doesn’t.
            your problem is that you think everyone IS equal, whereas in fact everyone should be treated Equally.
            You are silly, thoughtless and actually incredibly rude and disgusting person. it would be a compliment to describe you as a sophist, in fact though you’re dangerous because your marxist twat followers probably agree with you that those girls got what they deserved.
            And that, pal, isn’t English, at all…

          • Randy McDonald

            “it would be a compliment to describe you as a sophist, in fact though
            you’re dangerous because your marxist twat followers probably agree with
            you that those girls got what they deserved.”

            I would note that I actually.never said anything of the kind.

            What I did say is that the girls of Rotherham were abused for so long because the adults around them–including people of impeccable English vintage–thought it was fine for them to be abused, because they wanted it or because they deserved it.

            (Why oh why can’t Johnny read?)

          • Robert Andersen

            nah, they were abused because everyone in charge was scared of being called racist, because minorities run it now. The left wing loves a minority, prevents it from having to do an honest day’s grafting, like, erm, running an economy properly.

          • Jambo25

            There was certainly a degree of class dislike and snobbery involved in the Rotherham case. However, to deny the malign influence of a PC unwillingness to take on groups in an ethnic and religious minority was also there and there is plenty of testimony to support that.

          • Randy McDonald

            “However, to deny the malign influence of a PC”

            Sure. The mass rape of the girls of Rotherham was something the entire community collaborated in, regardless of ethnicity or religion or class.

          • Jambo25

            A lot of people within the Pakistani origin community certainly knew what was going on. They didn’t participate or collaborate but they certainly turned a blind eye. Some people, in positions of authority, in Rotherham certainly knew what was going on as well but the bulk of the white community clearly didn’t.

          • Randy McDonald

            Pakistani community aside, the people who were told about what was happening to the girls were powerful people, politicians and police and the like.

          • Robert Andersen

            And even though they were powerful, they were too scared to speak out for fear of being labelled racist.
            messed up, right?? Or is your position that everyone knew what was going on but was ok with it?
            You really need to decide now….

          • Randy McDonald

            I had clearly stated that the evidence seems to suggest that many people in Rotherham did nothing because they thought the girls either wanted what was happening to them or thought that they deserved it.

            It’s not my fault if you choose not to read my answers.

          • Robert Andersen

            What evidence?
            You are saying that you have seen evidence that English people are happy to see their children being raped??!?!?!?! that is your stated position, seriously?
            Don’t you think that is a tad rude or disrespectful to the English? just in case you’re wrong?
            clearly you hail from the left, but that’s seriously strong stuff, chum…

          • Randy McDonald

            “You are saying that you have seen evidence that English people are happy to see their children being raped??!?!?!?!”

            Actually, no.

            (Please, start reading what I write!)

            What I said was that, even when complaints were brought, many responsible people in Rotherham reacted by deciding that the girls were getting what they wanted, or even what they deserved. Almost by definition, the people who were bringing the complaints–many of whom would have been the girls’ relatives and friends–would not have been hapy with this.

          • Robert Andersen

            Ok, I see that you insisting on digging a deeper whole. You write

            ‘even when complaints were brought, many responsible people in Rotherham reacted by deciding that the girls were getting what they wanted, or even what they deserved’

            and also you’ve written

            ‘Rotherham demonstrates that the systematic rape of the girls and young women of Rotherham occurred …because …the white people around them–thought that what was happening to them was fine’

            a little later on.
            I then suggested that what you’re saying is that English people are ok with their children getting raped.
            I then gave you an exit when I pointed out that this subset of people were perhaps concerned about a politically correct backlash were they to take action, but you have chosen to ignore it. For you, it’s simply the people in Rotherham allowing their children to be raped, and I’ve suggested that by extension you’re saying English people are ok with their children being raped.
            Now, may I suggest that you take your hatred of the English and shove it where the sun doesn’t shine? It’s no accident t that you can come onto this site and post your disgusting and insulting views, that particular freedom was won over centuries by the people in this great land fighting against the kind of tyranny and injustice that you’re exhibiting now. How you could continue living in a country in which you thought the locals are ok with seeing the kids are raped is beyond me, and I suggest that actually you don’t believe this, and that perhaps you’re from a minority (maybe even the one that was responsible for these rapes) and that you’re cheaply trying to defend what happened. I say cheaply because you know that you live in a country that when you label it’s people as being ok with rape you know they won’t come out after you.
            You’re a nasty and sick character and you should know that this attack on the English good nature cannot continue.

          • Randy McDonald

            “I then suggested that what you’re saying is that English people are ok with their children getting raped.”

            Because that is the case.

            The decision not to intervene to prevent the wide-spread sexual abuse of girls and young women in Rotherham, made by people who were in a position to know and in a position to act, can’t be explained in any way other than the English (non-Pakistani) people in question being OK with the abuse. Maybe they thought that these girls wanted or deserved it; maybe they didn’t want to start an ethnic conflict. Whatever the reason, people made decisions for years on end which demonstrated that they were not sufficiently bothered by what happened to actually do something.

            Wide-spread sexual abuse, or well-known sexual abuse, can only continue if the people in the communities it effects want it to continue, or at the very least don’t think it worth the effort to intervene. It’s a cruel truth but a true one.

          • Robert Andersen

            HAHAHAHA… after 2 days you finally admit;

            ‘maybe they didn’t want to start an ethnic conflict.’

            And you demonstrate perfectly why enough IS enough of the socialist nonsense. For 2 days on this thread you denied there was any reason for people failing in their duty, rather you happily labelled the English as ok with seeing their children raped. Whilst many on this thread made it clear as to what the reasons for the failings were, you preferred to ignore the point that people are terrified for their jobs because of socialist fascism that permeates most of of structures in the workplace today. You denied for nearly 2 days despite the fact the subject was so serious. Your method of sophistry was not particularly clever (you ignored the points many made to you.).
            Well, if you believe that the people of this country are so low that they are ok with child rape, you are of course free to leave. Exits are clearly marked.

          • Randy McDonald

            No, I don’t admit it just now.

            I’ve been stating that the reason for people failing in their duty involved people not caring enough about the sexual abuse of girls and young women. This is something I’ve consistently said, and something that with almost equal consistency you’ve chosen to misread.

          • Jambo25

            I’m not denying that. I think that the South Yorkshire Police, in particular, should be investigated to within an inch of their miserable lives. Rotherham and other cases of the Rotherham kind plus their actions in the Miners’ strike, their incompetence and cover up over the ‘Ripper’ killings, their murderous incompetence and criminal conspiracy cover up over Hilsborough should have this force wound up and reconstituted from scratch.

          • Neil Saunders

            So it’s all our fault again, not just the genuinely guilty? You are delusional.

          • Randy McDonald

            No, I did not say that. Some responsibility does not mean all responsibility, but in circumstances where lots of people knew what was going on for years and no one did anything, those specific people and the culture they come from has to be examined.

          • Robert Andersen

            WOW!!!
            So you’re saying that if the girls had been ethnic then the (no doubt) huge outcry from the far left would then have been justified, so as it is the muteness from them is also justifiable??
            Bit sick old chum…

          • Randy McDonald

            Rotherham demonstrates that the systematic rape of the girls and young women of Rotherham occurred not least because the people around them–including the white people around them–thought that what was happening to them was fine, whether because the girls wanted this to happen to them or because the girls deserved it.

          • Robert Andersen

            No Randy, it shows that certain people in power were so concerned about being called racists and losing their pensions as a result thereof that they indeed turned a blind eye. The left wing has always been more concerned about APPEARING to be right and conforming to it’s ideal than in justice. Justice is an English characteristic, abused over the ages, but one definitely attributable to the English.

          • Randy McDonald

            “Justice is an English characteristic, abused over the ages, but one definitely attributable to the English.”

            Justice can’t be found elsewhere?

            In any case, justice was clearly not delivered in Rotherham until a very late date. Is that still justice? Or is Rotherham and its population un-English, somehow?

          • Robert Andersen

            Yes, what happened in Rotherham is most definitely unenglish, sir…

          • redsquirrel

            Randy, Clearly people in authority acted irresponsibly through moral cowardice. It’s been well documented over here that this is because they were terrified of being labelled as racist as the culprits were Pakistani. Nobody is especially defending those people in authority. What people are saying is that this has to stop.

            whatever your negative view of English people, we do not approve of the kind of snobbery you are suggesting. The victims, children, deserved nothing but protection & safety. Certainly every Englishman, Left wing, right wing, rich or poor, black or white would agree with that. Unfortunately, a large minority of Pakistanis living in Briton disagreed and felt they were entitled to use children as sex slaves.. Thats the problem.

            It’s very awkward isn’t it? It would be much more palatable to people brought up in a liberal world like we all were to say it’s because of something milder sounding like “The English are all rich snobs” But that isn’t correct and we will no longer stand for the truth being swept under the carpet like that, because 1000’s of children are getting raped.

          • Randy McDonald

            “The victims, children, deserved nothing but protection & safety.
            Certainly every Englishman, Left wing, right wing, rich or poor, black
            or white would agree with that.”

            Except for the people who chose to avoid providing protection and safety to those children, apparently.

          • redsquirrel

            Ok, that’s just rude. Read the post again. This is a serious issue for people in the UK.

          • Randy McDonald

            What is rude?

          • Robert Andersen

            randy, it’s rude because you seem to be deliberately missing the point that i and red squirrel are making.
            You are thus trivialising the rape of children, apparently unwilling to accept what those involved have gone on record saying, namely that they were afraid of being labelled racist.
            And that’s the thing that gets me about the faschist left, even when it genuinely is the most vulnerable in our society (and not the left wings adoption of the word representing just about any minority that’s allowed to vote), they refuse to accept that their faschist totalitarianism has led to the grotesque treatment of minors in Rotherham. For a marxist socialist leftie, ideas are way more important than children’s happiness, family, education, justice, self-governance… They happily espouse the postal vote KNOWING that it’s a bent system that debases democracy. but then, why are we surprised- we’ve seen the EU directly undermine democracy in many of its member states by parachuting in ‘finance advisors’ to governments in difficulty, a difficulty partly due to the ridiculously flawed structures that make up the EU.
            Well, i say enough. Enough of putting up with cheap sophistry by people like randy mcdonald, enough of having to put up with pseudo-intellectual arguments that go against the grain of what one knows to be inherently right, but because it cannot be articulated in every last detail i.e. represented in every last detail in a legalistic way, must therefore be wrong and a new dollop of rules and regs hoisted upon us so that ‘we learn from our mistakes’.
            It’s all become such a bloodie nonsense!

          • Randy McDonald

            “apparently unwilling to accept what those involved have gone on record
            saying, namely that they were afraid of being labelled racist.”

            I’m accepting that as one of the motives.

            I don’t think it’s at all incorrect to point out that, for these people, the sexual abuse in Rotherham just wasn’t important enough to merit acting, that in fact it was OK for this to happen if it was for the greater good.

          • Randy McDonald

            ” Certainly every Englishman, Left wing, right wing, rich or poor, black or white would agree with that.”

            Again, except for the people who were involved with the situation for years on end and chose not to do anything about it because wide-spread sexual abuse just wasn’t worth dealing with. These people, it would seem, constitute a fairly notable cross-section of the populations of an unremarkable community.

            I don’t think that England is unique in this regard. I’ve mentioned here several times the situation in Toronto, where it turns out most everyone in Canada’s trendy circles knew that a popular radio broadcast liked hurting women but no one did anything.

            What all this demonstrates is that we all need to sit down and think about our communities. Passing off sole responsibility to the perpetrators does not work.

          • Robert Andersen

            Your words;
            ‘Rotherham demonstrates that the systematic rape of the girls and young women of Rotherham occurred… because…white people around them–thought that what was happening to them was fine’

            Seriously, I find your statement repulsive. Disgusting in fact, and it merits an apology.
            It is of course emblematic of how pernicious the attacks on this country have become, and on those institutions that we hold dear that people can write such things so casually.
            I have nothing against free speech (although i abhor abuse of speech), but you have overstepped the mark, randy.

          • Randy McDonald

            “Seriously, I find your statement repulsive.”

            I’m sorry you think that. As the ongoing sex scandal involving apparent long-time abuser Jian Ghomeshi demonstrates here in Canada, Ghomeshi could not have done what he did for decades if people in positions of authority had cared enough to intervene.

          • Neil Saunders

            In other words, it’s all our fault. Nothing to do with the men who actually did it, or the people who kept quite about it for fear of seeming un-PC.

          • Randy McDonald

            Why would these people have done this if they didn’t think they’d get away with it?

      • GraveDave

        You’re right in a sense, except, in their PC minds,being English equates to some sort of treason to wider mankind.

        • Randy McDonald

          No, it seems that any treason related to a very traditional English disdain for women.

          http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/old-contempt-rotherham

          “What hasn’t gotten quite as much attention is an explanation that
          crosses all cultural boundaries: a very old, but somehow new,
          contempt—that’s the word the report uses—for girls seen as “deviant or
          promiscuous.” Jay told the Times that
          police officers referred to the girls as “tarts” making “lifestyle
          choices”—which perhaps was also code for consorting with Pakistani men.
          This attitude seems to have contributed to, for example, a reluctance to
          take missing-persons reports from friends or family. The police had
          excellent procedures in place for dealing with victims, according to the
          report, but they seem to have disregarded them. Instead, they
          “displayed attitudes that conveyed a lack of understanding of the
          problem of [child sexual exploitation] and the nature of grooming …
          children as young as 11 were deemed to be having consensual sexual
          intercourse when in fact they were being raped and abused by adults.””

          • MrJones

            You seem to be ignoring the attitude to women of the actual rapists.

          • Randy McDonald

            Well, no.

            Right now, Canada is going through a sex scandal caused by the news that popular CBC broadcaster Jian Ghomeshi turns out to have been a serial abuser of women. One thing that is coming up is the extent to which people around Ghomeshi–colleagues, friends, acquaintances–collaborated by not saying anything.

            The Rotherham report notes that, even when specific complaints were brought forth by the girls’ families or even the girls themselves, the tendency was to do nothing on the grounds that the girls got the situations they wanted or deserved.

            The rapists wouldn’t have gotten nearly so far had the people around them–the _English_ people around them–not thought their victims unworthy of protection.

          • andyrwebman

            I don;t think it’s an anti women thought. It’s a feeling of hopelessness when trying to do anything to change the habits of scallys and chavs.

            Try and get them off the streets in the first place? Get their home life sorted out? All a non starter.

          • Randy McDonald

            It is anti-woman to the extent that it involves people deciding that girls who are being sexually abused aren’t worthy of being protected because, well, that’s what they want and deserve.

          • pointlesswasteoftime

            When you use words like “scallies” and “chavs”, I think you end up making Mr McDonald’s points for him.

          • Robert Andersen

            And in your mind it has nothing to do with these people being worried about being labelled racist?
            even though some have admitted this was a concern for them? Or are those people just lying and actually what you’re saying is that the english don’t care if their children are raped??!!
            Are you wise pal??

          • Randy McDonald

            Did I actually say that? No.

          • edithgrove

            Well the New Yorker is right, Multiculturalism is Separatism, and the report was a first step in dismantling a failed concept, although that seems a little optimistic.

          • Randy McDonald

            What, exactly, do people mean what they talk about multiculturalism?

          • edithgrove

            Well, you posted a link to a New Yorker article that defines it as Separatism (as Apartheid). Was it not your intention to make that definition?
            On the one hand Multiculturalism allows different communities to develop separately, according to their own cultural beliefs, whilst on the other hand allowing an established elite to remain intact. The French and US did not embrace Multiculturalism and believe the ideals/laws of the State should be applied to all its citizens.

      • JSC

        That some ridiculously racist Anglophobia you’re spouting there Randy. English people don’t care about their children being raped, really? You really think that? I rarely resort to personal attacks, but you strike me as something of a simpleton, and a crass one at that.

        All of the official investigations, not to mention the statements of the victims and perpetrators, seem to indicate the authorities had a fear of being called racist and the minorities in question had realised they were above the law by virtue of their skin colour. But hey, don’t let the facts get in the way of your Anglophobia. English people just don’t care if their kids are raped, clearly.

        Care to enlighten us with your alleged superior knowledge of the USSR you keep bragging about as well, I’m dying to hear it, if it’s as good as your knowledge of “what the English want” it’s going to have me in stitches.

        • Randy McDonald

          The report noted that many of the English professionals and bureaucrats and cops involved chose not to get involved, judging that the girls had the fates they wanted or at least deserved.

          The rapists would not have gotten nearly so far had the society around them actually done something to stop them. It is hardly the case that Rotherham was populated by people who cared for the girls. Clearly, they didn’t.

          • Mark Ryman

            The BNP highlighted what was going in in Rotherham and other cities but were shouted down as racist, channel four were going to do a docu highlighing the problem but were told to shelve, so people in authority had an idea what was going on but chose to ignore for fear of upsetting tensions to a certain community..

        • Randy McDonald

          “Care to enlighten us with your alleged superior knowledge of the USSR you keep bragging about as well”

          Comparing the European Union with the Soviet Union shows you understand neither.

          Are you seriously suggesting that the EU is a one-party state with gulags in Lapland and starved peasants all over and a secret poiice?

          • The EU is clearly not the USSR. But that does not mean there are no similarities, because there are. The EU also has the potential to become increasingly totalitarian built into its entire make up. You may want to google Soviet dissident “Vladimir Bukovsky and EUSSR” who explains this in greater detail. He knows what he is talking about.

            And they do have a rather sinister “secret police”, EUROPOL. Bukovsky claims many senior officers were recruited directly from East Germany’s Stasi and Romaina’s Securitate. Not nice people at all….

            Did you ever vote Barroso into his Presidential office? The EU is not democratic. Nor was the USSR.

          • dado_trunking

            Ah, so the EU ‘has the potential to become’, not *is*.

            Very nice. Did you just make a case for keeping a close eye on the EU ‘not becoming’ what it isn’t, and perhaps focussing on the nations that already *are* the USSR in spirit?

          • Randy McDonald

            “But that does not mean there are no similarities, because there are.”

            What similarities are they, specifically? If there’s no totalitarian regime, no overwhelming military, no informal empire, then there really are no grounds for comparison. It would be much easier to say that the United States is akin to the Soviet Union, since among other things the United States is actually a state.

            I’d suggest that Bukovsky is cracked. Going by his interview with Paul Belien (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/865), he really doesn’t understand the EU. The desire for an “ever-closer union” long predates the mid-1980s, and was embedded in the very DNA of the organization from the time of the Treaty of Rome. The EU was never supposed to be a single market, but rather supposed to have the potential to evolve into a federal state. All of the core institutions of the European Union long predate this time period. Giscard d’Estaing’s alleged 1989 prediction that Europe would be a federal state within 15 years is not such a wild guess, given how European integration had been accelerating over the decade. Et cetera.

            Bukovsky may once have been a leading dissident. I’d suggest that he’s somewhat like Solzhenitsyn, a man who opposed the Soviet Union for his own particular reasons. His claims just aren’t credible.

          • spiritof78

            Did you vote Cameron into his office?

          • No, I actually voted for me! I was Cities of London & Westminster UKIP candidate 1n 2010.

          • spiritof78

            So how is an indirect election in the EU undemocratic, but an indirect election in the UK OK?

          • You seem to confuse AN election with NO election.

          • spiritof78

            The commissioners are chosen by the governments, like the Cabinet is chosen by the ruling party in Parliament. The President of the Commission is elected by the Euro Parliament. Cameron was elected by no one except his owm party.

      • MrJones

        Why would people whose children are being preyed on vote for a party that doesn’t care?

      • Tim

        I live on the edge of Rotherham if I had worked for the council or the police, I would have gone straight to the press and nobody would have gagged me. UKIP got a 46% vote across Rotherham borough at the last local election.

        • Randy McDonald

          And nothing happened before?

    • Rik

      Let us remember Churchill’s opinion of Islam i would quote it but i don’t want to be arrested like Paul Weston

      • dado_trunking

        Paul ‘free speech’ Who?

        That muppet’s a first class wafflemaker. Has he got Danish ancestry by any chance? Is he an Angle or a Saxon by bloodline.

        • andyrwebman

          Tell you what, I read the Wikipedia article on him and one thing stands out.

          ‘…at no point, until arrested, did Weston identify the words as a passage from Churchill’s book. After the arrest, Weston told an interviewer: “I was never actually going to mention it at all, if I hadn’t been arrested I would have mentioned that it was Winston Churchill, having been arrested, I thought, there is absolutely no point informing the police about this because they will then perhaps be slightly less forward in taking action; and I thought, if it really has come to the point where you can be arrested for saying these words then don’t tell them who originally said it. And let them prosecute you, arrest you,
          prosecute you, just to show the rest of the world how utterly sunk this poor old country of Britain is today.” ‘

          • dado_trunking

            Do you girls all go to the loo together and talk or summat?
            He go arrested for hate preaching. boo hoo hoo.

            Grow up you fools.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Re Paul Weston not telling police he was quotingwhenarrested for a political speech.
            that’s true.
            What is your point ?

        • Grace Ironwood

          Sorry, teacher, BoJo who ?
          Maybe I’d like to read the book,

          • Neil Saunders

            It’s a silly abbreviation of Boris Johnson, who recently published a thin little book about Churchill.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Entertaining phony. As much of a Tory as Cameron.

        • Grace Ironwood

          What are jam donut types, who’s BoJo.
          Random, I’m struggling to keep with the English usage here. Like.

          • Neil Saunders

            I can’t help you with “jam donut [sic] types”, though!

      • Alexsandr
      • Shoe On Head

        so much so churchill comissioned the regent park mosque. and the 400,000 solidiers fought in the conflict.

        • Gerhardt Kippets

          churchill comissioned the regent park mosque

          Sorry, he didn’t.

          and the 400,000 solidiers fought in the conflict.

          And let’s not forget the thousands of Muslims who fought on the side of the Nazis either…..

          • Shoe On Head

            He did.

          • Gerhardt Kippets

            You should change your username to “Foot In Mouth”.

          • Nabeel Jalali

            “Cock in Mouth” more like

          • Shoe On Head

            (Shoe on head).

          • Shoe On Head

            (shoe on head).

          • Shoe On Head

            Prove that he didn’t. Go on.

          • Gerhardt Kippets

            Sorry, if someone makes an unbelievable claim about a well-known historical figure, the onus is on them to back it up, troll.

            At least that’s how we do it here in England; I realise that things may be different in whatever hellhole you originate from.

          • Shoe On Head

            nothing.

        • Gwangi

          Yep, and Mein Kamff is freely available in mosques and Muslim bookshops on the Edgeware road and in other Islamist enclaves in London and the UK.
          The Muslims were and are big fans of Hitler, y’know. Something about the Jews…I mean, Zionists…I mean Israelis…and how we should fight and kill them (and grind up their bones and dump them in the sea – as the Palestinian Great Mufti said in 1940…)
          Islam = the fascism of now.

          • Shoe On Head

            ban books. Ban it all. Ban ban ban.

          • Shoe On Head

            that’s because you think an indian Muslim and a Turkish Muslim are the same culture, race, ethnicity and pen.is size.

      • david

        They can arrest me !I’m fed up with PC double speak!

      • UKSteve

        So quote Disraeli:

        “So long as there is this book, there will be no peace in the world.”
        (Holding up a Qur’an in the House of Commons; quoted in Rafiq Zakaria, Muhammad and the Quran (Penguin Books, 1991), p. 59).

    • ok, time for some fishing. what is the trend on (working class) teenage pregnancy in the UK, StJohn?

    • steveherts

      This is fundamentally the triumph of cultural Marxism the project to undermine all the stable structures and institutions of our nation; the family, the education system, Parliament, the legal system etc by implanting and promoting certain myths e.g. there is no such thing as moral truth, equality not justice, we are all victims, all minorities are oppressed by a paternalistic hetero-centric culture , gender is not innate but what you perceive, all cultures are equal etc etc. It is an agenda of the radical left with a specific world view that now dominates all public discourse.
      The core and the fabric of the nation is rotten, the great mass of people know and sense this. It is going to be a long march back to sanity.

      • Grace Ironwood

        “”

      • David

        Well said !

        • steveherts

          Thank you David- I yearn for the day when our country will be free of this nonsense.

          • David

            Absolutely! Although at present we are still being beaten back the tide will turn, and then the long, slow march to a better place can start. The success of Ukip demonstrates that we can reconnect with many of the public if the right combination of things come together. So hope springs eternal !

          • steveherts

            The good news is that truth and reality win out in the end every system and empire founded upon myths fails in the end. History is littered with examples.

          • David

            Agreed !

          • EnglandGone

            My god I hope so Steve. I really do. Can not believe what our country has become. I lived in Australia for 1 year returning to the UK in 1993, I recall looking forward to hearing English accents, all things synonymous with England, home. I am here geographically, but not at home. Its not about disliking those who come here (albeit with a sense of entitlement which I suppose the EU legally means they have) but I just miss my own people around me. If that’s OK, and not prosecution-able, I love the English. We really are not a bad lot (or few depending on your postcode).

          • Neil Saunders

            Maybe so, steveherts (and I generally applaud your comments on this thread), but there’s an awful lot of damage and suffering along the way!

          • steveherts

            Yes, you are right appalling suffering because the policies pushed by the cultural Marxists are fundamentally evil.Thats why we must never surrender the nation to the radical left

          • Robert the Devil

            Philosophical discussions about Marxist ideology are irrelevant to this debate. Most people,I suspect, have no interest in or, indeed, understand such arguments. The major reason for the attraction of UKIP and discontent with the main parties can be summed up in two words, MASS IMMIGRATION, particularly from the third world, and the destabilising effect which it has had in cities and towns throughout England, Those who live in areas still largely unaffected are looking askance at what has happened elsewhere, and fear that the same thing could happen in their areas in which they have been brought up or to which they have escaped from the hell-holes that some towns and cities have become. The ruling politicians have ignored public concern about this for too long and the public, in desperation, are turning to UKIP which provides the only focus for its discontent. The lack of support for UKIP in Scotland can be put down to the fact that Scottish towns and cities have not been impacted to the same extent. However, if that should change, I suspect that many Scottish voters would turn to UKIP.

          • David

            I agree. The underlying philosophical debate is of no interest to the vast majority who are focussed on what you’ve just described, albeit one of the effects of the ideology.

          • Robert Andersen

            Nope. It won’t be slow, actually the change will come quickly.
            Just as in a Hegelian or Kantian dialectic, once a synthesised position is arrived at i.e. ‘logically valid’, the spreading of the idea will be very quick because pre-supposing the search for a new position is a restlessness in the current paradigm.
            Transposing this to our physical reality; well, enough with socio marxist rationalisation and politicisation of everything and anything, enough false thinking and false justifying by twisting common law, essentially an overindulgence of the ego at the expense our our experience (common sense), and more power and recognition to the innate beauty in our being that spurs us to be better and higher rather than subjugated to perverted texts and laws hoisted on us by those who decry our way of life.
            Seriously, if you don’t like it here, the exits are clearly marked.

          • Grace Ironwood

            By Golly, you are Idealistic !
            However, getting from say, 1968 to say, Gay Marriage was indeed very quick in the scheme of things.

      • colin

        The SNP are more Marxist than the Westminster’s parties.. My votes with UKIP

        • Jambo25

          Utterly delusional. Do you have any idea what Marxism entails?

          • steveherts

            So you have not heard of the Frankfurt school then?

            I wish it was delusional-unfortunately it is the harsh reality that accounts for the deterioration of this nation since the 60s

          • Jambo25

            Since I studied Political Philosophy at university the answer is yes. I’ve actually read some of their work rather than just hearing about it. Could you actually tell me what aspects of the SNP’s policies and actions bear any relationship to the works of Horkheimer, Marcuse, Adorno or Habermas?

          • steveherts

            Excellent, very please to hear about your studies. My comments make no reference to the SNP.Refer to Colin above. thanks

          • Jambo25

            Let’s stretch it further then. What major political party is pushing a Frankfurt School agenda?

          • steveherts

            Read my comments above, most of them have adopted policies promoted as truisms which subvert the fundamental structures of society-I am talking about cultural marxism not the classic revolutionary type. The attack on the family-a foundational element of so-called “bourgeois capitalist society” via the imposition gay marriage is a fine example of cultural marxism at work-directly undermining the role of father/mother, the right of a child to know his/her mother.The distortion of language provides numerous examples-pushed and promoted by leftist and marxist academics for instance using the word gender (it is a grammatical term) instead of sex to designate male/female, the use and manipulation of language and cultural norms to set a radical left and marxist agenda-is actively promoted or passively accepted by the mainstream parties. The end game in all of this for the radical left and marxists is the collapse of what they perceive as capitalist structures. There are numerous examples of these subversive policies, promoting a radical left /marxist agenda, materialist without reference to any clear moral authority and elevating the power of the state. It is the march through the institutions that the cultural marxists refer to. The fight back must start with regaining control of the educational system in particular the universities which have been controlled by the left for many years, heavily influenced by marxism-and which influence government policy and disseminate this ideology. It has gone unchallenged for too long and is a cancer upon Western society.

          • bobmattfran

            You really are totally deluded, uyou haven’t realised that most of the financial and cultural probelms in the west stem from extremism of the neocon variety from economics to warmongering foreign policy there has not been one UK prime minister of any party since Harold Wilson who has had the guts to tell the USA to sling its hook and fight their own wars that they alone created.

          • Grace Ironwood

            bobmatt. Your foreign policy thesis has no discernible connection to the major cultural destruction that is the topic under discussion. Try again to make the causal connection if you really believe it.

          • steveherts

            The cultural subversion of the UK has nothing whatsoever to do with the foreign policies of the US-it has everything to do with the principles and precepts of cultural Marxism that have gained such influence throughout the West since the 60’s. An insidious process starting with the corruption of the Universities and slowly working through the main governmental and societal institutions-see the list post by Dahitmann below. Thanks

          • Neil Saunders

            The Neocons largely accept the Culturally Marxist programme of Political Correctness as do the mainstream political parties of all developed nations together with transnational bodies such as the EU and the UN, the CEOs of multinational corporations and the governing bodies of the recently bailed-out, “too big to fail” banks. It is part of the default ideology of our political, business and media elites. A false antithesis, methinks!

          • UKSteve

            You are a clueless fool. You do realise that it was Wilson who sent British troops to fight in Vietnam, after pressure from LBJ?

          • steveherts

            That is exactly what Wilson did not do-he resisted pressure to send British troops to Vietnam one of his few sucesses. You are the one who seems to have no grasp of History. Once again I repeat this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with US foreign and diplomatic policies and everything to do with the corruption of values. Try your best to break free from the simplistic Guardian inspired narrative you are obviously addicted to-though I sense it would be difficult for you but try your best.

          • UKSteve

            Well, perhaps you can get an adult to read something to you, as you obviously can’t. If you resorted to some research, you might not sound so crashingly foolish.

            They served in Australian uniforms, and it was an inner secret shared with only a few, select Cabinet members. It was all Wilson could do to placate LBJ. One of those who served is an acquaintance to this day.

            Still, at least you’ll have 4 other bell-ends to keep you company. And I wouldn’t wipe my jacksy on the Guardian; just how incredibly wrong and so often can you be?

          • bobmattfran

            Its you who are the clueless fool despite pressure from LBJ Wilson refused, i suggest that if you dont wish to believe the evidence of the US Department of Defense and Hansard then you have a serious problem seperating fact from fiction.
            Harold Wislon was the only prime Minister of the UK who refused to be drawn into a war which 1) could not be won without resorting to Nuclear weapons, which would have finished America as a democracy 2) A war which was started by the US as a spin off from McCarthyism which was rife in the US. The US military were paranoid about China and Russia even though neither country had directly theatened the USA. 3) The other reason Wilson refused was the intelligence he received regarding the “private” operations going on in Cambodia in which the US were involved through the CIA in funding arms with drug money.

          • UKSteve

            You can’t even punctuate a sentence, and you are calling other people “deluded” and “fools”. Well, for all your pathological imbecility – and it is profound – you maintain a wonderful sense of irony, although a remarkable lack of self-awareness.

            You are as clueless as the other muppet you criticise. Get someone to read this to you:

            http://www.historytoday.com/marc-tiley/britain-vietnam-and-special-relationship

            http://www.nam.ac.uk/whats-on/lunchtime-lectures/video-archive/jungle-too-far-britain-vietnam-war

          • bobmattfran

            Thank you for your rant. I read both these articles sometime ago, perhaps you would like a translation in latin as its a “dead” language which should suit you as regards politeness, fact and constructive criticism you appear to be dead from the neck up. Enjoy.

          • UKSteve

            ROFLMAO! Your another one of these weapons-grade morons that up-votes his own Disqus posts! I am convinced that your mental age is about 12. IQ to match.

            You read those “years ago” but stil lmade the utterly moronic comment that “Britain had no involvement in the Vietnam war”.

            PMSL.

          • UKSteve

            A rant? Yes, I suppose 5 lines is beyond your ability to concentrate or understand. It certainly shows from your posts.

            I think you mean “I can’t even understand 5 lines of basic English, but everybody speaks languages thanks to Google Translate”.

            Clueless. Muppet.

          • Jambo25

            That the Frankfurt School came out with some stupid and dangerous ideas is not in question. The fact that several generations of (mainly) American grad students and second rate academics then simplified and made worse some of those ideas is also not in question. I’m simply asking which major political parties have adopted Frankfurt School ideas.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Don’t just blame the Yanks. Britain gave the world Stuart Hall’s hugely influrntial CCCS (Centre Cultural Studies)

            Used Gramsci to turbo charge identity politics after workers voted for Thatcher . I believe (Birmingham Uni blew it up 2002.Sadly the academics not in it at the time 🙂

          • Jambo25

            I fully accept that we (The British) were at it as well.

          • Richard

            None directly but indirectly practically all of them. The comment below mentions the CCS in Birmingham which was quasi-Marxist and has influenced generations of Lefty academics since the 80s.

            I was on the on eoif the first undergraduate Cultural studies degrees at NELP in the early 80s and I found a lot of the course imcomprehensible and still do!!

          • Jambo25

            I cannot help you on that one. I studied Marxism, at university, about 15 years earlier. We started with reading and mastering the thought of Hegel and Feuerbach before we even started reading Marx so that we had a firm grasp of the dialectic. Only then did we read Marx, Engels and various commentators on their ideas. We then read works by Trotsky and Lenin and modern interpreters of Marxism, including the Frankfurt School. Personally, I found the whole lot to be “a crock of s..t” as our American cousins say.
            The problem was not so much, in the UK, what Marxism said but the framework it laid down for the study of politics and wider political philosophy in universities and the media. Back in the early 70s I had a number of heated debates with some of my lecturers and profs that there was far more to political behaviour than class and redistribution. I was watching the rise of Scottish nationalism and the start of a vicious religious and nationalist inspired civil war in Northern Ireland. My profs and lecturers made a nodding acceptance to other political motivators but still they tried to fit them into a Marxist inspired class/economic interpretation of objective reality.

          • Richard

            Incomprehensible!!

          • Grace Ironwood

            Well said. See my response to University Student above.

          • Jambo25

            Jambo ceased being a student about 40 years ago round about a year or so after I read the Grundrisse.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Any connection? 🙂

          • Jambo25

            Apologies for slightly late reply but the 2 were not connected. Of the various writers and thinkers whose work I had to read for the political and Social Philosophy of my degree course some I liked and some I did not. I came away with a liking or respect for Hobbes, Hume, Mill, Weber and the Elitists. They seemed to me to be describing some sort of reality. Locke I found somewhat dishonest and those who pushed some idea of ‘Positive Freedom’ I found positively dangerous. Popper had them bang to rights. Marxism I found to be turgid, overblown dross and dangerous turgid, overblown dross.

          • Grace Ironwood

            the ground rules did it for me I’m afraid . ( not uni, Marx !) I agree about elitist theorists.

          • Jambo25

            The first essay assignment on Marxism I was asked to do was “Was Marx a moralist?”. The answer was ‘you betcha’. The danger with Elitism is that the Elite starts to believe in some of the nastier political philosophies stemming from ‘Positive’ theories of liberty and you end up with Nazism or Bolshevism.

          • zookeeper

            The Labour Party.
            The Conservative Party.
            The other bunch with Clegg.

          • Jambo25

            If you think that then there is little left to say.

          • colin

            The SSP Scottish Socialist party aka (communist party) has a bold program, independence and taxing the rich. This distinguishes it from the SNP who wants independence and taxes the middle class and the rich for wanting to have an above average priced house (250k)

          • bobmattfran

            Colin do you know what communism is? On e moment you are bleating on about marxism and now communism, they are totally different but I guess you are the sort of deluded fool who would vote for a baboon if it was painted either blue or purple.

          • colin

            Communism is a system based on Karl Marx’s idea’s – You could say Marxism is the theory, while communism is the actual practice.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Not necessary to demonstrate one has engaged in detailed readings of Marcuse, Jambo25, you are being precious.

            Politically engaged people appreciate the general phenomenon of the success of Cultural Marxism: the left’s action transferred from the economic sphere (nationalisation and the rest) to the cultural sphere (destruction of Judao-Christian, liberal, Western society, the capture of the culture by progressivism on every front)

            People may or may not get that, in a nutshell, Antonio Gramsci described the strategy (the transfer of destruction outlined above) and the Frankfurters provided the tactics (particular policy prescriptions in various areas)

            An inchoate understanding is still broadly accurate one in this instance: the effects apparent at the end of one’s nose.

          • colin

            So the progressive and punitive tax (stamp duty) that the SNP announced isn’t more marxist than Westminister parties. The cancelling of the right to buy your council house isn’t more marxist than Westminister parties. The SNP proposed land reforms which included compulsory sales against the owners will isn’t more marxist than Westminister parties.

          • Erictheowl

            And what about their deeply sinister “Named Person Scheme” where every child in Scotland has an interfering busybody watching over them, an interfering busybody who can contravene the parents’ wishes and decisions about the child at a moment’s notice, and, indeed, on a whim.

          • Jambo25

            You do realise that social work departments and other state authorities have had the right to contravene the wishes of parents, in certain cases, for rather a long time. Oh! you probably don’t. Just another opportunity to howl at the moon.

          • Robert Andersen

            Does that make it just then? I mean if others get it wrong for a while, does that mean it’s ok?

          • Jambo25

            It makes it normal social work practice in all western societies. Now, you may think its wrong and wish to end the practice but you then will have to accept the rise in child murders and neglect/maltreatment which will inevitably follow.

          • Robert Andersen

            You don’t know that there would be a rise in child mistreatment any more than i know there would be a drop.
            What is sure is that we would have then to stop relying on these broken and corrupted systems and become more pro-active as a society in the nurturing of our young, or in general for that matter, as reliance on the state for everything would fall away. It is PRECISELY because of this mindset and atmosphere prevalent today that coppers in Rochdale did nothing- they were far too worried about the PC brigade and their impact on careers and pensions, too worried about insulting ‘community leaders’ who probably knew what was going on etc…
            It is utterly typical of a leftist construct that lack of accountability is inbuilt into the structure of absolutely everything. Personal responsibility is sacrificed on the alter of an idealism that hates people, hard work, family structures, struggle, aspiration , education etc… And the best way to undermine personal responsibility is to create one govt organisation after another.
            And it is then marketed as a way of reducing unemployment!!

          • Jambo25

            I suspect you’re right about the South Yorkshire Police not acting due to concern for their careers and pensions. That, however, was almost certainly down to simple laziness and stupidity on the part of the police not simply the baleful effects of PC.
            I’m arguing from the position of a traditional social conservative. I simply do not believe that people are naturally good. I do not think that ‘the people’ will coalesce to enforce some kind of virtuous society. That’s why mass societies have from the late 18th century gradually developed state systems to enforce law and order and other social and economic rules.

          • Richard

            The can be a bit slow to intervene, on occasion, sometimes the intervention is postumous.

          • Jambo25

            That’s a reason to change social work policy and practice; not end social work intervention.

          • global city

            or on the basis of a political doctrine/fad…as we see so calamitously imposed when people fall into the clutches of the social services and adoption systems.

          • Jambo25

            1) If being in favour of progressive taxation is ‘Marxist’ then virtually every politician in the western world is ‘Marxist’ . 2) We have had compulsory purchase of land and property, in the UK, for over a century. Next.

          • global city

            Marxian, rather than Marxist…. there is a subtle difference in approach and mindset…but the destination’s pretty much the same.

          • colin

            Jambo – let me me shine some light on the subject I stated that the SNP are more marxist that the Westminister parties.

            So yes all Western nation are marxist to a point, but most stay away from the heavy or punishing taxes, however it seems that the SNP are hell bent on pushing through punishing taxes and punishing land reform.

            10% for a house over 250k is punishing and is more marxist that the westminister parties..

            Land reform the bill being pushed through the Scottish parliament will limit how much land anyone can own in Scotland… But the nasty element is incessant attempts to demonisation private land owners, while ignoring the evidence of there positive role.

          • Jambo25

            The reformed tax bills on house sales is not punishing. 90% or thereabouts of the house buying population in Scotland will witness no increase in house prices or actual falls. There is now general agreement in the political class in England (Though they are keeping it quiet.) that there has to be major changes in stamp duty and council tax banding to make both more progressive.
            As for laws to limit how much land people can own. I make no apology but would like to see the law being made tougher. I cannot think of any Western/Central European state which would allow the concentration of land holdings which is true of Scotland. In the vast majority of those states there isn’t any argument or controversy as those land holdings were broken up decades ago.

          • colin

            Jamco25 – It’s very easy for the government to through out numbers to make it look fair – but if you take out the amount of cheaper properties (flats) then the average cost of housing would goes – Its the normal hardworking families that are being targeted and punish with a 10% tax if they seek to better themselves..

            Why on earth should a government dictate, how much land you can own – Robert Mugabe springs to mind – personally I would love to be in a position to buy estate – one of my childhood dreams you could say.

            Aspirations – a nice detached house – if fortune smiles on me a Scottish estate – all squashed by the SNP Marxists.

          • Jambo25

            “Normal, hard-working families”. I repeat that some 90% of purchasers will either face lower or the same costs. What is your definition of “normal”? “Why on earth should a government dictate how much land you can own”. The Scottish government and most other European governments do not wish to tell the vast majority of people how much land they can own but may have quite justifiable concerns about the social and economic effects of the massive land holdings such as the 96,000 acres owned by The Duke of Westminster in the Northern Highlands or the god knows how much the Buccleuch estate amounts to or the very large land holdings in the possession of various foreign groups and individuals. Once again, I repeat that many if not most European states have taken steps over many decades to limit very large land holdings for a variety of reasons. There is nothing Marxist or Commie in this.

          • colin

            Jambo25 – average price of a house in Aberdeen is £263,986 so normal folk… I assume it will be the same in Edinburgh.

          • Jambo25

            In Edinburgh its higher but those are 1 ) Averages and there are as many people below average as above. 2) These are also the 2 most affluent (By some way) cities in Scotland. My figures still hold.

          • colin

            I disagree – the policy is a re-distribution of wealth – I used to live in Spain – I could easily up and off and so could many in Aberdeen as many work in other countries and stay in Aberdeen (I work in Trinidad bring the money I earn back to Scotland and spend it there) – I am sure many in Edinburgh could find work in London.. Just why would you stick around and see their wealth redistributed.. I guess migration from Scotland will increase as the middle classes move to a more favourable tax location.

            This whole tax relies heavily on the 10% tax bracket for there revenue while John Swinney forecasted an increase of 86m 2015/16 I dont think it will materialise as something like 80% of the revenue expected which is 556m 2015/16 will come from that 10% tax…

            In the mean time the lower price houses will see there sales dry up as they wait for the 0% tax (John Swinney says 45% wont pay tax) or lower tax 2% (35% of people according to John Swinney) to come in and the higher priced housing will see a spike prior to the tax as people to rush complete before the 1st of April.

            So to say the tax is fairer for all is a myth – the middle class (normal people) are going tax in a very unfair way.

            Lenin building on Marxism sought the destruction of the bourgeois class and its values, recommending, as the strategy for annihilating the middle class, “grinding them between the millstones of taxation and inflation.”

          • Jambo25

            In that case close the door as you leave. Until then, stop being an hysteric.

          • colin

            Oh well i must have proved my point about the SNP being marxist, since you have descended into name calling again.

            As for closing the door – I came back to fight for my nation and that what intend to do – this may require me to make change career…

          • Jambo25

            There wasn’t any name calling there. I do actually find your last posting somewhat hysterical.

          • colin

            Oh well what to do – have a nice day…

          • bobmattfran

            Well before leni the French bless them removed man of the parasitic bougeios class who lived off the backs of others, and they were certainly not marxist as Karl Marx’s grand parents were not even around do get a sense of proportion, everything you disagrre with is immediately labelled as communist or marxist, perhaps you would be more comfortable in the USA which is fool of raving paranoids terrified of “red under the bed! and sadly a lot of them are born again christian neocons.

          • colin

            Social engineering is happening on a massive scale so you act, behave and think in certain way – you maybe happy for it to continue that way – this raving hysterical loon – isn’t.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Cultural Marxism in Scotland?
            I think the interesting difference is that the Scottish left are heavily paleo-marxist. Perhaps necessarily so as their “base” are all on benefits and the state is the major if not the only engine of economic activity.

          • Robert Andersen

            er, u reckon the oil helps?

          • DaHitman

            You clearly don’t

          • Jambo25

            I clearly don’t what?

          • DaHitman

            Troll why don’t you stick to the Guardian website, trolling right-wing media is all you people seem to do which shows how sad you are.

            Political Correctness started in a think tank (called The Frankfurt School) in Germany in 1923. The purpose was to find a solution to the biggest problem facing the implementers of communism in Russia. Why wasn’t the wonderful idea of communism spreading?

            The Frankfurt school recommended (amongst other things):

            1. the creation of racism offences

            2. continual change to create confusion

            3. the teaching of sex and homosexuality to children

            4. the undermining of schools and teachers’ authority

            5. huge immigration to destroy national identity

            6. the promotion of excessive drinking

            7. emptying the churches

            8. an unreliable legal system with bias against the victim of crime

            9. dependency on the state or state benefits

            10. control and dumbing down of media

            11. encouraging the breakdown of the family.

            Ring any bells?

          • Jambo25

            I know who the Frankfurt school were. You obviously don’t.

          • DaHitman

            Oh get a life you sad commie git, all you lot do is troll which shows how fascist and pathetic you all are

          • Jambo25

            “sad commie git”. I’m actually centre right and socially conservative.

          • DaHitman

            So you are a commie git, a Lib-Lab-Connor

          • Jambo25

            Not sure how you come to that conclusion.

          • DaHitman

            Nothing to see here loser, troll someone else

          • Damaris Tighe

            Jambo, don’t bother with this poster. S/he is a very unpleasant extreme right winger who called me (!) a muslim because I didn’t agree that every single muslim is a jihadi. Very ignorant & full of hate.

          • Jambo25

            Thanks for the warning but I like answering back to these people. It probably annoys them more than it annoys me.

          • steveherts

            If you know who they were you clearly do not understand what they were about which was and is the undermining of the settled structures of western society in order to create the conditions for a transition to a Marxist state.The above list by Dahitman is a pretty neat summary of their agenda.

          • Meltonmark

            You might also like to access sites dealing with Transnational Progressivism. This is why, no matter which of the three traditional Parties you vote for, they all pursue the same agenda.

          • steveherts

            excellent

          • br14

            There’s little doubt Blairs New Labour was heavily influenced by the ideas of Gramsci.

            As just one example, they introduced a new cultural hegemony that has us all believing mass immigration is somehow an issue of morality, whereas the policy was then and is now a question of economics.

          • Jambo25

            The number of people in Blair’s New Labour who’d read Gramsci could probably have been counted on fewer than the fingers of one hand.

          • Neil Saunders

            That doesn’t mean that they weren’t influenced by his ideas, does it?

          • Jambo25

            Most of Blair’s people wouldn’t know one of Gramsci’s ideas if it walked up and bit their groin. When most modern politicians say that they are influenced by the ideas of philosopher A or B what they really mean is that they are influenced by what they think are the ideas of philosopher A or B. In any case Blair’s ‘3rd Way’ way drivel apparently originated with some philosopher who worked at St Andrew’s university.

          • Neil Saunders

            You are being disingenuous, Jambo25. Influence does not require a chapter-and-verse acquaintance with the source of the ideas, or even a basic knowledge of its originators.

          • Jambo25

            There is a political philosophy which should be quite carefully looked at to explain our present predicament. It is Elitism. Don’t bother with Gramsci or the Frankfurt school but look at Weber, Pareto, Mosca, Michels and Wright Mills. You can bring it forward and look at the work of the late Christopher Lasch as well.

            Our problem is a kind of PPE educated, London based fuelled groupthink. . Their ideas are not based on Gramsci or the Frankfurt School but on a kind of consumerism applied to personal morality and behaviour.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Christopher Lasch’s The Culture of Narcissism is a good book.

          • Jambo25

            I’ve not read it. I’ll take your commendation and give it a read. I now, since retiring, have plenty of time for that. I was thinking of his book ‘The Revolt Of The Elites.’ which, I think , gives a fair explanation of how, those who control our lives, have simply become strangers to many of us. We seem to have societies which are presently controlled by free floating elites who share neither what were generally accepted manners and morals. Its those elites which have moved our societies in ways which many of us simply do not like.
            Those elites have not done so, however, because they are crypto-Marxists wishing to put the ideas of Marcuse or Gramsci into practice. Rather, the roots of the social liberalisation and other changes which they championed came from growing affluence and a desire of the elites to extend consumerism to morals and lifestyle choice.

          • bobmattfran

            Yep nazi germany from 1931 onwards, next you imbecile you will be trying to sell the idea that Hitler was a Communist.

          • DaHitman

            Socialism was the bastard child of communist you thick pathetic troll. Seriously why are you left-wingers so sad you have to keep trolling right-wing media?

          • bobmattfran

            DaHitamn for someone who sometimes shows a glimmer of above lower animal standard intelligence, you seem to have a problem moving up the intelligence ladder to a leve were you are of communicating and processing information without resorting to insults and rabid comments of no value.

          • bobmattfran

            Rich from a right wing troll such as yourself, you must have far too much time on your hands, this is not the only site that you infest with your ridiculous though amusing nonsense.

          • Brogan75

            Not shaving/showering for weeks?

          • Jambo25

            The few ‘real’ Marxists I ever met all seemed exceptionally clean and tidy. They disliked ‘bohemian’ scruffiness even more than general society.

          • bobmattfran

            Jambo these cretins haven’t a clue they are so far up their credit cards and overdraft they think that there hasn’t been a recession.

          • Jambo25

            They certainly know very little about the real texts of 20th century reinterpretations of Marxism or what they actually meant. Not all that surprising as a lot of self proclaimed Marxists didn’t either.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Oh my goodness Jambo & Bobmatt.. What a pair of plonkers you are.
            I suggest you go off somewhere and compare your academic records.
            (“I got more A’s than you so YOU should kiss MY bum twice”

            You’ll soon be tearing out lumps of each other’s hair over the correct interpretation of Grundrisse.

            No, don’t reply, I couldn’t bear it.

          • Jambo25

            The only reply I’m making is to note the lack of anything other in your kind reply apart from personal insults. Very intelligent.

          • Grace Ironwood

            Oh my goodness Jambo & Bobmatt.. What a pair of plonkers you are. I suggest you go off somewhere and compare your academic records.

            (voice on point of hysteria ) “I got more A’s than you so YOU should kiss MY bum twice”

            You’ll soon be tearing out lumps of each other’s hair over the correct interpretation of Grundrisse.

            No, please don’t reply, I couldn’t bear it.
            I won’t be replying regarding any other posts, thanks.

          • bobmattfran

            You seem to have your own problems with some of your rather outlandish satements but then what am I to expect? A stupid comment as a poor response to an important subject.

        • Gerhardt Kippets

          Yes, they’re not called the “Tartan Tories” for nothing!

          • colin

            The tartan tories have taken a sharp turn to the left.

      • vieuxceps2

        I agree with your comments but I fear there will be no long march back to sanity.We are now as we will be,or even worse. thanks for your thoughts though.

        • steveherts

          Sadly you could be right, the cancer of cultural Marxism runs throughout the whole of the body politic we are indeed a seek nation, but like one looking upon a much loved but moribund relative I continue to hope. We cannot abandon the nation to the radical left.

          • David

            agreed again !

          • Robert Andersen

            Chin up!!
            It won’t be slow, actually the change will come quickly.
            Just as in a Hegelian or Kantian dialectic, once a synthesised position is arrived at i.e. ‘logically valid’, the spreading of the idea will be very quick because pre-supposing the search for a new position is a restlessness in the current paradigm.
            Transposing this to our physical reality; well, enough with socio marxist rationalisation and politicisation of everything and anything, enough false thinking and false justifying by twisting common law, essentially an overindulgence of the ego at the expense our our experience (common sense), and more power and recognition to the innate beauty in our being that spurs us to be better and higher rather than subjugated to perverted texts and laws hoisted on us by those who decry our way of life.
            Seriously, if you don’t like it here, the exits are clearly marked.

      • spiritof78

        How is this connected to the article?

        • steveherts

          Thanks for your question.It is not it is a response or adjunct to the most popular comment.Posted by StJohn Malta (see above)

      • bobmattfran

        steveheerts you nwouldn’t know what Marxism is if it was pushed in your face, you are about as educated about international politis as McCarthy was inn the USA. Any thing slight left of the warmonering extreme right is classed as commie in the US and the sheep who inhabit the USA and their vacuous media have managed to infect the UK with the same nonsense.

      • Neil Saunders

        Hear hear!

    • I don’t mind you copy>pasting and mildly editing my comments when its for as good a cause as this, StJohnMalta, but I do wish you’d at least let me know you’re doing it. I’ve upvoted anyway, because needless to say, I… erm… agree with me!

      • dado_trunking

        Of course you do. You all agree with … er … you.

    • spiritof78

      Well, admittedly there is little argument (and even less evidence) in the article. But how does it give you the excuse to unleash this tirade?

    • Judy Knight

      I shall indeed be voting for UKIP ‘StJohnMalta’….great post by the way!

    • Wollebauch

      The UK is in decline because it has never been able to move on from having lost the empire, and ranters like you will not save it.

    • Brogan75

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCG9NgX05a0 Pat Condell, listen to him.

    • bobmattfran

      Vote UKIP n end up with an extreme right wing facist government! No thanks.

    • John Mag

      UKIP 100%

    • Shorne

      The 2011 census showed the Muslim population of the UK to be 5%.It is a well-established demographic principle that the fertility rates of communities of recent migrant origin, particularly from developing countries, may be initially higher than those of longer-established communities but decline over time. A 2011 study by the Pew Research Center found that Muslims in the UK had on average 3 children in 2005-10, and predicted that by 2025-30 the figure would be down to 2.5. The vote UKIP line really went down well in the region containing Rotherham where their PCC candidate was beaten by Labour.

      • Grace Ironwood

        A fly.
        This has been a truism of demography. Typically immigrant communities do find birthrates go down as a result of their encounter with modernity. (happily women+education, greater rates of child survival) What if there is an exception n the case of certain Muslims in west? Some successfully integrate many deliberately do not.
        I suggest Islamic Immigration is an exception- in many ways. Particularly regarding integration and success in the host society. Today’s political context of a World Islamist Revolution is unprecedented.
        Communities that self-segregate are organised around Islamist/ Brotherhood ideology of stealth jihad via immigration and consciously high birth-rates.
        Women are controlled as much as if not more than in traditional societies, and because of the new politics, probably more than their mothers and grandmothers in the 70’s and 50’s.
        The global muslim birthrate is predicted to go down dramatically in about 50 years – too late to save the West if current policies of appeasement and our internal problems social decadence continue. Iran has an astonishing, globally unprecedented drop from 7 to about 1.7 children in a generation !.
        I would be interested in more detail on UK and a second opinion to Pew. Birth rates *relative” to indigenous/non muslim cohorts possibly most relevant. Families with 3+ children make the running.

        Look what Putin’s been doing. He has no intention of allowing Russia to follow Europe quietly into the long night !

    • Innit Bruv

      “The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter”. Winston Churchill. (He was sooooo right!!!)
      He probably had people like you and most Speccie-reading/EDL/UKIP malcontents in mind. People who would blame most of a country’s woes on a small percentage of the population.
      Hmmm, where have we seen that before?
      Oh yes!! In the very country Churchill saved us from (and we all know what happened there).
      Try using what little grey matter you have before posting such moronic comments. Numbskull !!
      And DON’T use Winston Churchill,one of Britain’s finest, to peddle your
      filthy BNP like agenda!!!

  • Jacques Strap

    Alot of people in Kent and Essex used to live in London. ‘white flight’?

    • greggf

      Yes Jacques, it’s the same in Leicester on a smaller scale. If you saw that TV docu-story you might be wondering how many English are left in the city; most have moved into the county.

      • Jambo25

        In Leicester they move out to villages and small towns like Blaby and Houghton or further out to Rutland.

        • greggf

          Yes jambo, I was born, brought up there and have relations who have done that.

          • Jambo25

            My wife’s from Leicester and I’ve been visiting the area regularly for over 40 years. My boy lives about an hour away from the city and is now a Foxes season ticket holder. I’ve seen the city go from a very cosmopolitan but still recognisable and liveable East Midlands city to one which is majority ethnic and where what appeared to be a decent shot at integration, in the 80s, has now gone into reverse with sections of the Muslim population seeming to withdraw into itself. Not helped by the sudden appearance a few years ago of a sizable Somali minority with no discernible link to the city.
            Just one thing. ‘White flight’ has also become ‘Brown Flight’ as middle class Indian and Pakistani groups have moved out of central and suburban Leicester as well. My Leicester friends and relatives have ethnic neighbours who are members of the same golf and bridge clubs and even the same Conservative associations.

          • crosscop

            I read somewhere that most of the Somalis arrived in Leicester from Denmark a few years back when the Danes introduced legislation preventing them from importing spouses via arranged marriages. Can anybody verify that?

          • Jambo25

            It wouldn’t surprise me but I just don’t know.

          • greggf

            You seem to have a more recent experience of Leicester than I Jambo.
            Before and after the war it had the reputation of being one of the richest per capita and best educated cities in Europe, and seemed impervious to the depression of the 1930s. My father moved from a depressed south Lancashire straight into a job in the early 30s.

            I left in the early 80s after the Ugandan Asians arrived (but not necessarily because of that), but heard horror stories later about Evington’s (Keith Vaz the MP) Pakistani TB epidemic, an area which was quite middle-class, and local Indian nepotism in Council jobs. I’ve returned over the last few years, sadly for funerals, and noticed the “withdrawal” in the city you mention.

            I don’t know what the local economy is like now, most if not all the old light industries: hosiery, knit-wear, boot & shoes, engineering etc, have gone abroad – which is perhaps not the fault of immigration but more another example of misgovernment.
            However maybe not a potential UKIP seat!

          • Jambo25

            I first got to know Leicester in the early 70s and that wealth you mentioned was just about still visible but the city did go down the tubes, economically, to a certain extent during the 70s and 80s. and I don’t think its ever fully recovered. I’d guess that Leicester was as or more prosperous than Edinburgh in the early 70s. That certainly isn’t the case now. My wife notices much higher levels of obvious poverty in the city now. Evington and Knighton are still pretty posh and there are areas of clear prosperity in other parts of the city. However there are a lot of rather run down housing estates inhabited by the left behind. Previous big employers like Nicholas Cora and Imperial Typewriters have gone along with a lot of the light engineering which maintained a high wage working class economy.
            This didn’t really have anything to do with immigration and, in fact, some of the Asian origin business community are one of the bright hopes for a Leicester economic recovery. There does seem to be a clear distinction between older immigrant groups who’ve integrated well: Indians, Ismaili Muslims, Afro Caribeans

    • pointlesswasteoftime

      Some of us have done it the other way around. All I need say is “The Medway Towns”… shudders.

  • OK, i’ll leave the kippers and baiters below to do their usual piece on Rotherham.

    I think there is a lot in your article Rod, but London’s money tends to be made by those with libertarian rather than labour principles: labour is definitely the party of the BBC, the Guardian, but it’s not the party of the City, of Business, of Tech. Funnily enough alongside the bitter cabbies and miners, ukip *does* have a libertarian wing, and in fact their one MP is in it, but good luck squaring that circle if we ever live in the united kipperdom of farage.

    • Jacques Strap

      UKIP is effectively the SNP of England. Whether you like them or not they are here to stay, they say what a huge number of people are thinking and they wont disappear until their demands are met, if anything they will just grow and grow – like the SNP.

      The SNP may have lost the battle but they havent lost the war.

      • Yes you are probably right Jacques and I have no problem with that, though I’m not in a conversation with someone who tells me that the tories and labour are the same (or just wants to talk about rotherham again becuase they hate muslims). Fine if that’s your view, but you’re not in a conversation with me, and there are also a huge number of people like me (and there are a huge number of guardianistas)

        • Caps Lock

          “and there are a huge number of guardianistas” Looking at their circulation figures I’d say there wasn’t that many!

        • Pootles

          When you say ‘just wants to talk about Rotherham again’, do you have any time limitation in mind for this horror? Do you think we should, in the language of New Labour, ‘move on’ ?There is every likelihood that the Rotherham crimes have been (are being) replicated across the country, and, furthermore, no one from among the politicians, LA staff, or police, seems to be in danger of having to answer for what was, at least, criminal negligence.

          • sigh, all right, let’s talk about rotherham again, it’s the only thing that matters.

          • Pootles

            Of course it is not the only thing that matters – but it is bloody appalling, and we shouldn’t ‘move on’ and bury it.

          • MrJones

            You talk about Rotherham as if it’s a one-off. How would you know until the political class has investigated whether or not the scale of the problem is the same in all the other 50-60 towns where grooming gangs are operating?

          • Alexsandr

            they managed to bury news about the same issue in Sheffield in the bruhaha on the Friday after the clacton by-election. its not a Rotherham problem, its a Northern Conurbation problem.

        • gerontius

          “(or just wants to talk about rotherham again becuase they hate muslims)”

          I agree that Rotherham is not the main issue, in the sense that the changes that Rod is talking about would be happening without Rotherham.
          People are talking about Rotherham, not because they hate muslims as you so tritely put it, but because they hate the sexual abuse of children and are incensed when the see the perpetrators being protected by a political establishment that is in a position keep its own children out of harms way.

          • Alexsandr

            but Islam condones child abuse. Mohammed was at it. There is the idea of Mufa Khathat.

        • Neil Saunders

          More’s the pity.

  • silent_pilot

    “Indeed, a recent opinion poll suggested that the public was slightly
    more favourably inclined towards the EU at the moment than it has been
    for several years. Christ alone knows why this should be. But there we
    are.”

    Very simple it’s a fear of the unknown, in part caused by the fear-mongering statements from the legacy parties about ‘losing 3 million jobs’. A statement which has been discredited by the authors of the report that the quote has grown from. UKIP need to sell the message as to why leaving the EU will work for the UK. But I have no doubt that they will.

    • John Carins

      Indeed. Further to your comment “Christ alone knows why” is a revealing statement and makes me wonder why the Spectator does not argue more acutely for Brexit. It’s time for them to switch allegiance to UKIP

      • silent_pilot

        The clue is in the name: they spectate rather than actively nail colours to masts etc… 🙂

    • Grace Ironwood

      I agree. The current level of support for getting out of EU indicates lack of self-confidence, confidence in understanding of the issue and free-floating anxiety.
      This under confidence is a classic psychological effect of dependency -welfare and other. In reality it’s pathetic and unwarranted. The problem is that people realise the issue of UK’s economic survival requires political and economic understanding beyond their pay grade.

      As with global warming, fear campaigns will be very potent.

  • gerronwithit

    Who are you and what have you done with Rod Liddle? PHe used to be funny and on target. If it is you Rod I’m afraid that you have been living and breathing Bubble air for too long. Ukip’s popularity is due to the contempt held by the political class for the general population of the UK. For generations the major policies of EU and mass immigration have been imposed against the will of the majority and the detrimental impact is obvious to anyone outside the Bubble who have a pair of eyes and ears who wants their children educated, wants some health care or even drives on one of our roads.

  • Rhys

    Rod Liddle makes a number of shrewd observations. But it is a commonplace to observe that London isn’t much like England, still less Scotland and Wales.

    The ‘cross section’ of contemporary British society when it’s referred to in the BBC commentaries which it represents as news, and of course as it appears in the soap operas, is completely foreign to many, like myself, who live in way out in the English sticks.

    • Richard Harris

      *in the Styx, but good point otherwise

  • Malcolm Stevas

    “It is the London establishment, and its fatuous and self-serving shibboleths, which is loathed throughout the rest of the country” – perfectly true I’d say, but the writer neglects the other part of London disliked & distrusted so widely: the fact that it is not terribly English, and this factor has accelerated alarmingly in recent decades. With around 13% of Londoners being Muslim, for starters, and the fact that it is a magnet for immigrants legal and otherwise, it’s curiously schizoid – a metropolis inhabited by a very large proportion of foreigners (economic migrants, for the most part) and ruled over by that “vapid, flaccid, spineless, politically correct and wholly London-centric” Establishment of politicians and the chatterati.
    Pretty damn good reasons to distrust the impact of the place on the rest of us out here in England.

    • spiritof78

      When do immigrants become English?

  • Milleband “represents” Doncaster. But he doesn’t, does he? Like nearly all the MPs in Wetminster, he represents nobody. Which is why UKIP is doing and will continue to do well. At least until they get the opportunity to join in Government and then show that they really have no idea how to reform such a decadent economy. But they won’t make it any worse than the current mob.

  • wattys123

    UKIP Are actually doing very well in Wales, were less than 1% behind Labour at the Euros and more popular Than the Tories or Welsh Nationalists. other than that good article

    • DrWatt

      Yes this is something the media ignore quite a bit – just how well UKIP are doing in Wales – I have family and friends living in Wales who are/were mostly Labour voters – many have now switched to UKIP.

      • weejonnie

        Survation Poll (albeit on small numbers)

        Tories 20.4
        Labour : 36.9
        UKIP : 26.6

        The traditional labour voters (my dad voted labour) and postbox stuffers will ensure that LAbour keep most of their Welsh seats,

        Of course anyone with a brain in the valleys would look at the poverty around them and think – Labour have been in power for many years and we are still poor – are we being ripped off?

        Another way of looking at it.

        The Tories are the party of the rich (So Labour Says)
        Therefore it is in their interest to make everyone rich.
        Labour is the party of the poor.
        Therefore ………………………………………………………..

        • spiritof78

          So the Tories have spent the last 200 years trying to make everyone rich?

          • Mick Jones

            spiritof78
            Yes, that was an interesting spin on Tory aims.

  • Pootles

    ‘The party has become upper-middle-class and southern — all the while still raking in the votes from its old redoubts in the post-industrial north of the country.’ Ha! Rod, have you put your finger on a trend that has an historical precedent? The pre-First World War ILP was a creation of the industrial North and the central belt of Scotland, but in the inter-war period (as it struggled in the aftermath of the introduction of individual Labour Party membership & the founding of the CP), it increasingly became the party of Left wing, middle class, metropolitan types. The ILP, of course, eventually faded away to nothing.

  • Warren Whitmore

    Contrary to what Rod Liddle has claimed, UKIP do well in Wales. UKIP came a close second to Labour in the Euro-elections, and a recent opinion poll has actually placed them in first position in the Principality.

    • Bill

      There are a lot of white flight English living in Wales, many originating in the West Midlads where the Moslem repopulation and institutional infiltration has been going on exponentially for 40 plus years and is now well past critical mass. These English may explain the sound UKIP support in Wales.

      • Jambo25

        A large and I suspect growing English population in Scotland as well. I spend my time between Edinburgh and Dumfries and Galloway which both have substantial minorities of English residents. They are most welcome too. My wife is from Leicester, originally and wouldn’t contemplate going back down there for good. If we had to go down south then rural Shropshire would be our pick. Still some affordable property, lovely area and nice people.

      • Warren Whitmore

        This would account for UKIP support in sparsely populated mid-Wales, but not in the valleys of South Wales, where UKIP topped the poll in one council area in the Euro-elections.

  • AlecM

    Good riddance to bad elite rubbish, for both major parties.

  • A World of Paine

    There is a bigger totality than ‘UKIP not liking London’ .

    It is LibLabCon that people don’t like. It is being treated with contempt that people don’t like. It is being sneered at for holding views that are reasonable and sensible that people don’t like. It is being treated like a doormat and being milked for taxes that people don’t like.

    I hope that everyone votes UKIP (my choice) or SNP or Green or PC or basically anything other than LibLabCon

    Stick one on Westminster – burst the LibLabCon Bubble

    • Linda Smith

      Oh please not Green!

      • spiritof78

        Why not a party standing for social justice and for the future?

        • Tim Reed

          ‘Social Justice’. Pffft.

          A phrase so ambiguous as to be entirely meaningless.

          Ditto ‘progressive’ and ‘equality’.

          • spiritof78

            You don’t understand those terms?

          • Neil Saunders

            Explain them to us, O Wise One.

          • spiritof78

            Its you who is saying that these terms are meaningless. So presumably ‘fair’ and ‘democratic’ and ‘incentive’ are equally meaningless?

          • james allen

            Forcibly taking money from people who work to give it to people who don’t. Ain’t that social justice?

          • Neil Saunders

            They’re slippery expressions whose meanings depend on who’s using them, and for what purpose. Take “social justice” – leaving the “social” bit to one side for the moment, what do you mean by justice? (Plato’s Republic takes an entire book to debate the meaning of the term, and many of us still find the definition given therein unsatisfactory.) “The future”? Well, this is going to happen, irrespective of which choices we do or don’t make; surely the important thing is to make what the best evidence suggests to be the right ones.

            There could scarcely be a more contested concept than what is or is not “fair”. “Democratic” literally means pertaining to a system of government in which the people rule (usually through elected representatives), but all kinds of regimes have called themselves democratic (for example, the erstwhile DDR). Again, what might be an incentive to one person or group would be a disincentive to another. Until or unless you define what you mean by these terms they are, for all practical purposes in discourse, meaningless.

          • Striebs

            Think you just check mated spiritof78 .

            There are a lot of useful idiots in the green movement doing the elite’s work .

            I can’t see the point of voting for a party which wants to take away our cars and sterilise our children .

      • A World of Paine

        I understand and appreciate your comment. However my enemy’s enemy is my friend. LibLabCon, are the real enemy of UKIP. Anything that takes support away from pro-EU liberal centrists is OK by me in an FPTT election. Unfortunately, many voters are never going to vote for what they think is a right wing party but I would rather see them diluting the centrist vote, by voting Green, than voting for Labour or the Lib Dums.

  • gerontius

    “But increasingly, there is no need for Labour, either. Labour is perhaps
    more a party of London, these days, than either the Liberal Democrats
    or the Conservatives.”

    I couldn’t agree more. Labour no longer serves the purpose for which it was founded and will cease to be a major party (it might well survive as a sad little rump of a thing). These things take time that’s all: There is a deal of ruin in a party.
    Ukip appears to have been adjusting its policies to reflect this reality and good for them.

    • MikeF

      “Labour no longer serves the purpose for which it was founded” – quite right but the problem is that it has found a new purpose as the vehicle for sustaining the influence and power of a politico-bureaucratic elite that claims legitimacy as the representative of a series of special interest groups, most obviously ethnic minorities, and the public sector. It is an enormously effective but also cynical repositioning exercise.
      But it has weakpoints. One is the obvious contradiction between the worldviews of some of its client groups – the one that is simply unsustainable in the long term is that between the gays and the Islamists. Another is its reliance on tribal ‘Old Labour’ loyalties in Scotland, Wales and the industrial North of England – even though as Rotherham showed its attitude to the people whose votes its needs in the last of those instances is one of utter contempt.
      If the SNP really can almost obliterate the Labour Party’s Scottish Westminster presence and UKIP can bite deep into its vote in those former northern heartlands then things could get interesting. But the latter depends on the people who live there having the honesty to recognise what an evil organisation the Labour Party has now become and to act accordingly – something that Rod, for instance, still seems unable to do.

  • sfin

    Every now and again one comes across an article which exactly voices what one has been thinking for a long time.

    Absolutely spot on Rod. London is indeed no longer British – or even English for that matter.

    The elites allow ghettos, such as Tower Hamlets to flourish and then don’t go there! It’s why they’re so keen on ‘multiculturalism’ , as opposed to integration. It’s great getting cheap labour – and isn’t falafel just the thing for a working lunch? But heaven forbid them, being directly affected by their own policies, by having to live among these people…

    …Immigrants generally can’t afford to culturally invade the likes of Belgravia. It’s the working class areas, all over the country, who overwhelmingly suffer this and it is successive Labour governments who have opened the flood gates.

    It is high time the sheep started looking elsewhere for representation.

    • wudyermucuss

      Londonistanisloviaumcongo.

  • la catholic state

    Don’t write off UKIP in London. If anywhere needs UKIP….it’s London.

  • Richard

    Perhaps it’s also that people are starting to feel the effects of being made a minority in many parts of their own country, and aren’t too keen on it? Brits by-and-large aren’t hugely bright, and it takes actually seeing the consequences of actions that makes them question their voting-patterns. It’s like a child and a hot stove: burn yourself enough, and you’ll stop putting your hand on the hotplate. I think for the average Brit, it takes about three hundred negative repetitions to join action with consequence, rather like some of the dimmer breeds of dogs.

    • Grace Ironwood

      This assesment of Brits is so sad. There’s no doubt about the hordes of the underclass. The international reputation of British travellers as pigs of the world. Then we have our world-beating laddettes. I’d like to suggest the woeful, woeful union education system & the demise of the family that should civilise the child rather than sheer genetics. So Sad.

      Now how do you explain the Swedish Deathwish?

    • pointlesswasteoftime

      “Brits aren’t hugely bright”… so that’s why they see UKIP as a solution to their problems?

      Your disdain for us “Brits” shows you shine slightly less than a candle anyway.

      • Richard

        Do you know how Brits treated other Brits in places like Rhodesia? I can’t have too much respect for the country that voted Labour and Blair in three elections. That’s why my grandparents left, and they told me so.

  • Sam_Beresford

    Interesting read. I would point out though that in Wales UKIP are doing as well as in England – 17% in the latest Welsh YouGov poll. That’s above Plaid Cymru. Quite a lot of London backed UKIP at the Euro elections as well – not to mention the Scottish MEP. I also disagree that UKIP is a party for people that hate London. It’s a party for people who can’t stand the Westminster elite – that’s different.

    Labour has been a middle class party since 1945. As the historian David Kynaston pointed out in his great book ‘Austerity Britain’, two thirds of Labour MPs were working class in 1935 (dockers, miners etc). By the 1945 landslide two thirds were middle class (civil servants, lawyers, academics etc).

    I understand why many working class people voted Labour in the era of Attlee, Gaitskell and Harold Wilson. But after the dream of state ownership crumbled and the old industries closed down in the 70s and 80s, what’s been in it for them? New Labour tapped into a lot of discontent in 1997, but it was a profoundly metropolitan phenomenon. On issue after issue Labour is now totally at odds with voters in Rotherham and elsewhere – on green subsidies and targets which push up energy costs, on reviving manufacturing, on immigration, the EU and so on. Other than memories of former bogeymen (or women – you know who I mean), Labour’s focus on low pay and tribal loyalty, what holds the vote together?

    If UKIP can earn voters’ trust on the economy and their personal finances in these areas, I think many will ultimately go purple…

    • Grace Ironwood

      The answer to your what’s in it for labour voters after nationalisation era is BENEFITS.
      The labour base is now largely welfare recipients and the unionised public servants who minister to them.

      • spiritof78

        Nonsense. And prejudiced nonsense

        • Grace Ironwood

          Sorry. My comment was not a vilification. I’ve read reports of research that has proven that the Labour base has shifted, probably international phenomenon that inclues the Democrats in US, Australia and Canada. This is fairly widely understood- have a look yourself.
          Basically, Tradesmen, working worker types that used to be firmly Labour have cut loose from their parents tribalism.
          Welfare state workers and recipients are now the core Labour voter. Then you have the smaller but highly influential number of cultural left that Ed Miliband is an elite member of.
          There is a tension between the old labour and cultural left labour. Many in Old Labour feel betrayed and are now among those attracted by UKIP.

    • Jambo25

      UKIP picked up an MEP in the Euros in Scotland after unprecedented coverage from the BBC but the party is now running polling scores of 3%-5%. Even in the Euros the party only got 10%

  • Stewart Ware

    Ed Miliband ‘facing calls to quit’: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29935172

    Ed Mini-Bland is even less popular than his party.

  • SchtenGraby

    Millions and millions of people live in London. Millions more work in London.
    In total, somewhere to the tune of 21% of UK people are within the London Metropolitan area. Which is an awful lot of people who have not (on average according to the article) been bitten by the UKIP bug and who are (on average) unlikely to be so anytime soon.

    This, in no small part, is probably because they are:
    – Smarter
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25002401
    – Better looking
    http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/beautiful-women-UK-live-Sutton-says-dating-poll/story-15727748-detail/story.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8618606.stm
    – Richer
    http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/27/uk-is-the-most-financially-unequal-country-in-northern-europe-new-research-reveals-4847533/
    – Healthier
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/25/england-wales-health-atlas-disease-risk

    than the rest of the population. So, jealousy, envy and bitterness are obviously massive factors here.

    UKIP may kick up a big hoo-ha for the next few years or so, but demographically they are dying.

    And demography is destiny.

    • gerontius

      The Labour Party is dying even faster.
      Death is destiny.

    • William_Brown

      Ha! Nice try…Except that, according to the sources you quote (yes, it’s that quiet here today I’ve bothered to follow your links!) they don’t really stack up to your assertions:

      Smarter: Well, that’s because we country siders go to live & work in London for a period of time. Educated in ‘the sticks’, working in the City.

      Better Looking: This was a survey carried out by people who use dating agencies. Of course, in the City, you seldom ever actually talk to anyone directly – Only via sad, internet dating sites, where, let’s be honest, any photo you send in is going to be either a). someone else’s photo, or b). have been taken of you at your very best, then photo-shopped to get the wrinkles out.

      Richer: Yet again…based on property values. So yes, Russian gangsters can afford rather big properties.

      Healthier: Hmm….blow your nose after a day in London and tell me that the contents of your nasal passages doesn’t look like cucumber relish with ground black pepper added in abundance!

      Nope, I’m neither jealous, envious, or bitter that I don’t live, or work in London any more. In fact, I should really encourage you to stay there, so as not to pollute the countryside with your evil city ways. ; )

    • Suzy61

      I know this is only bait but I couldn’t resist seeing just what the ‘Croyden Advertiser’ was basing it’s figures on….and then I found this;

      “I’ve never been on a dating website before but my friend had a baby with a guy she met on one, so I definitely think they’re a good idea.”

      Read more: http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/beautiful-women-UK-live-Sutton-says-dating-poll/story-15727748-detail/story.html#ixzz3IK9Y7Zww
      Follow us: @CroydonAd on Twitter | croydonadvertiser on Facebook

      That’s the girls for you….as for the men, it found that the most handsome men came from Yorkshire.

    • Grace Ironwood

      Don’t forget, those with UKIP genes are unable to use modern technology.
      Maladapted.

  • Tox66

    Labour? It will be in the gutter, where it deserves to be. Another great article, by the way, and spot-on.

  • Diggery Whiggery

    “It is interesting that neither Scotland nor Wales have been much bitten by the Ukip bug.”

    I’ll give you Scotland, but UKIP nearly won the Euro elections in Wales? Granted that won’t necessarily carry through to the GE but still.

  • Richard N

    UKIP isn’t ‘anti-London’ – it’s just that now that London is Londonistan, with indigenous British being a small minority in their own capital city, those who would support action against mass immigration are similarly a small minority.

    Turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.

    • Richard

      I wonder when it was that people began to act contrary to their own survival in the UK? You would think that would be quite low on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, like don’t eat poison, avoid mould on food, don’t use your bed as a toilet, etc. There is no doubt about it, though, Britain and the West are rapidly consigning themselves to being footnotes in history textbooks. When we have returned to the Desert/Jungle/Savannah, people will shake their heads to learn how stupid societies can be, and use us as examples of people whose heads were so far up their own behinds they couldn’t get them out.

      • Grace Ironwood

        Yes, the death wish is palpable. Does English self-loathing run as deep as Sweden’s I wonder ?
        I read that Swedish have just positively outlawed the expression of opinion critical of “multiculturalism” This is only one amongst other hogties to be used against any attempts to survive by the good citizens of soon-to-be Swedenistan. They voted for it.

        Apparently, Mrs. May is interested in it for U.K, as she is with so many projects of Sweden’s Advanced Thinkers .Which shows the truth of Churchill’s warning that it’s the communists in the Tory party that really need watching.

    • Grace Ironwood

      I have noticed that white turkeys do.

  • E Hart

    Well said. It’s spot on. There would have been no call for devolution in either Wales or Scotland had it not been for the rampant ideological twaddle of Thatcher. After her tenure, nobody in the North, Wales or Scotland thought for moment that their interests would served by London/Westminster. Indeed, they knew categorically that the idea of one nation was rent forever. What an achievement! The party of unionism gives life to a process that very nearly destroyed it – and still might. Not only that, Thatcher and New Labour’s move to the right effectively allowed the SNP to fill the vacuum. A party which once had negligible support, is now the party of government. This is all thanks to Thatcher, Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron. The alarming thing is that none of them seems to have noticed how out of touch they were or are with the union they claim(ed) to support. Indeed, the latter two – no doubt preoccupied with Clacton-on-Sea – only came to their senses a week before the Scottish referendum. However, this may just be nemesis postponed as it is abundantly clear that Labour is cast in the role of traitor and the Tories and Liberal Dems are loathed in equal measure. Again, another vacuum giving greater scope for the SNP to clean up and achieve its ultimate goal.

    In the Scottish example it is manifest that there is real loathing – not for the English – but for the particular brand of politics and politician that emanates from Westminster. It offers the most stunted kind of pluralism – akin to the US – where popular, sovereign, representative, accountable government is but a succession of meaningless words. In short, the constitutional crisis is fundamentally less about devolution than it is about having political parties, which actually represent the interests of those who voted for them. Instead, as you say, voting in a general election doesn’t translate into anything meaningful outside the geographical parameters you describe.

    The answer to this is constitutional change but it should start with changing the dysfunctional electoral system, abolition of the House of Lords, more regional power (because one nation has now become a non-starter thanks to “representation”) and the total recall of MPs if and when necessary. The recent vote on the recall of MPs and the decision to shred expenses claims by MPs made before 2010, illustrate once again why nobody trusts these “representatives” further than they can throw ’em.

    One of mysteries of our system is how MPs have got away with it for so long. However, another Tory party (UKIP) isn’t the answer, certainly not as far as Wales, the North and Scotland are concerned. The issue is lack of representation and that isn’t served by having four political parties offering a flawed economic strategy geared to rendering the place into a fully formed shit-hole whose only beneficiaries seem to live in London, the South and a sprinkling of marginal seats that decide elections.

    • Swanky

      Standing up for freedom and prosperity is ‘twaddle’? Anyone would think we haven’t spent the past century or so locked in a to-the-death battle with Communism and its many ugly children.

      • E Hart

        Yes, twaddle. Crap, if you prefer. It was presented as such but was nothing of the sort. What’s worse, it set in motion the political and economic debasement, which has been carried on by successive governments ever since. You might consider that “freedom” and “prosperity”, but if so, the words have lost their meaning. There is scant evidence of either here and even less in the EU.

        The wider issue is sovereign, popular, representative, accountable government – and in case you hadn’t notice – we don’t have it. Similarly, most of the population have precious little freedom and little or no prosperity. This model has been on books for over a generation and look where it has got us. Spare me your fantasies.

        • Swanky

          Okay, so you want freedom and prosperity but are just fed to the back teeth with the fact that we haven’t got it? (Or: enough of it.) That I can see. But I don’t know why you’re blaming Thatcher of all people. There are certain conservatives that have tried to work for that, but their Tory party has not supported them (Iain Duncan Smith, Hague, Gove come to mind, to name a few). If the Tories in Britain capitulated to the Leftist calumny that they are ‘the nasty party’ — an infantile slur — it does not follow that their first principles are merde.

          • E Hart

            You’re off track. The piece is about the nature of political evolution in this country, which accounts for where we are now. This is a process by which we have gone from “one nation” to the point of fragmentation, or in the case of Scotland, possible disunion. All the mainstream political parties are culpable in this. Thatcher was the instigator, though, as her policies directly resulted in giving traction to the SNP. Thereafter, Labour carried on with the project…

  • Paul Strydom

    what a pathetically poor un-researched article , I LOVE London and will be voting for UKIP for this very reason – the author of this article shows very little understanding of politics or general public interest. UKIP will do exceedingly well in the next election for obvious reason, just watch.

  • Swanky

    I shall try not to be humourless, but I’m going to have a go at this:

    rather too familiar English jingoism and xenophobia

    Merriam-Webster online: jingoism : extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy

    Concise Oxford Dictionary (my copy held together by clear tape): jingo: supporter of bellicose policy, blustering patriot (orig. supporter of Disraeli’s policy in 1878). 2. adj. Vulgarly dashing.

    Leaving aside definition no. 2, which no one uses, how can the English of our era possibly be accused of jingoism? If we go to war, it is after someone else attacked us first. If the Iranians behave outrageously, we allow them to make away with our naval personnel without so much as firing a shot. If that’s an example of our jingoism, I’m Harold Bluetooth and I’ve come back to claim Nigel Farage as my bride Gyrid Olafsdottir!

    Then there is the Jeremy Clarkson/cheeky licence plate in Argentina ‘controversy’. I suppose that’s an example of our egregious jingoism, as well.

    I propose a more up-to-date definition than the ones the dictionaries give us. Ready?

    jingoist, noun. Somebody that doesn’t speak ill of his country at every turn, and fails to assume that other countries must be in the right while his country is in the wrong and should offer asylum, reparations, no-strings-attached aid, and their pick on state visits of any of the treasures in the Tower of London.

    How’s that?

    As for ‘xenophobia’, if English people are xenophobic, what the h=ll does that make everyone else on the planet??!!

    • gerontius

      Well said.
      I should not be so diffident.
      A toast to you.

      • Swanky

        And a toast to YOU, with the splendid rosé Cava we are just about to open….

        • gerontius

          Well it was Harald Hadrada that Harold Godwinsson defeated at Stamford Bridge. As an eleven year old scholar I concluded, in a glorious mytho-historical mishmash, that poor spelling was the true Achille’s heel of the Vikings. Pity I didn’t keep the essay.

          • Swanky

            You left an R out (heh heh heh). Must have been a very amusing essay!

          • gerontius

            Where?
            Don’t tease me girl.
            My mother desposed of all my school work and reports – to protect my reputation when i became famous I imagine.

          • Swanky

            HaRdrada.

          • gerontius

            Oh!
            Maybe that’s the reason I got marked down.
            Don’t forget that I have to remember further back than you do

          • Swanky

            Yes, but you also said that you don’t have a great memory for names.

          • gerontius

            Yes, well that’s true as well , so I expect you, in future, to discreetly overlook the occasionaal missing letter.
            PS: And the ocasional extra one!

            PPS: Not contrived!

          • Swanky

            Ha ha ha!

  • Terence Wilkinson

    I have two quibbles with this article:

    1) UKiP, much to the chargin of the ex-First Minister, did win a seat in Scotland at the European Parliament election.

    2) The Scottish Nasty Party did win an opinion poll shortly before their referendum but then proceeded to lose their referendum and subsequently lost their leader. How careless of them! And despite their triumphalism over another opinion poll victory no actual seats changed hands because there was no actual election. Of course the SNP would love to reduce the electorate to a mere 1000 or so by excluding the elderly and the “rich” who, in their deluded fantasies, voted against their Socialist Paradise.

    When will journslists learn to stop confusing opinion polls with real elections? That say 550 people said they would vote for the SNP in an imaginary election is not a story. That 2 million people actually voted against them in their referendum is a story.

  • Swanky

    Ukip performs badly in Scotland and Wales because the potent anti-London sentiment is robustly promulgated by the nationalist parties.
    Not sure I’m fully with you there on that one, Rod. Scotland and Wales are by and large socialist, with many struggling areas dependent on the redistribution of wealth — socialism’s favourite trick — and therefore they are not much interested in the free-markets, small-government, low-tax self-rule that UKIP offers.

    • Grace Ironwood

      It may be the case that many votes are swayed by sentiment rather than rational assessment of policies. Then we have the heavy undertow of neo and paleo-tribalism.
      In a voxpop recently in Australia, I heard a truck driver rather sweetly say he was going to vote for former PM Kevin Rudd because his white hair made him look like an angel. Next up a young woman was going to vote for current PM Tony Abbott because his fit physique appealed.
      Never underestimate the vibe! – rather captured by Rod’s article.

      • Swanky

        Indeed. Which is another way of saying: never underestimate the ignorance, laziness, and irrationality of voters. Those that bother to vote, anyway.

        This is why I am not one of the ‘get out the vote’ campaign. What that really is (in America) is an effort to get the clueless and careless to vote as Leftists instruct them, and very often it works wonders. But I feel that those not interested enough to vote, and to learn who the parties are and what’s at stake, should do the polity a favour and stay home!

  • Alexander Balkan

    UKIP support is on 20% in London, set to take five seats in the London Assembly. Ukip are neck and neck with Labour in Wales and set to overwhelm them in the Welsh Assembly elections. I don’t believe a word of this article apart from the fact that Labour should be very worried.

  • Noa

    Rod. I love London. And I’d like it back. Who do I need to ask for it, please? Ed, Nick, David? Or Nigel?

    • Al Bowlly

      Nigel. Or are you just kiddin’?

  • pobinr

    I’m a member of UKIP. It’s news to me that I hate London.
    Rod Liddle is behaving like a racist in generalising about a group of people. We all hate London. You prat.

  • Dan

    UKIP not biting parts of the Welsh vote? How absurd. UKIP nearly toppled the Labour Party in the EU elections and won in places like Merthyr Tydfil, a Labour stronghold. UKIP is even projected to win AMs in 2016 and possibly a few MPs in next year’s General Elections. Poor analysis by Rod Liddle in my opinion.

    • Jerome Leroy

      He’s in denial, like the rest of them

      Polling data is available, down to the ward.

  • Tim

    Look at films made in London back in the 1970’s and now, what has been done to London is treason.

  • Grace Ironwood

    re: “It is going to be a Long March back to sanity”

    So How is this to be effected ??

    I draw attention to Mark Steyn’s point about the uselessness of winning formal political power yet continuing to cede the culture. “Conservative” governments function merely as temporary road bumps to the implacable progress of the hegemonic, increasingly authoritarian cultural left.

    Many of us do believe that the weakening of the West can be broadly explained by the Cultural Marxism & its Long March through the Institutions.

    So how to effectively contest the ideological ground ?
    How to weaken the hegemony of Cultural Marxism?
    Rebuild the foundational institutions of the free West?
    Revive a decayed society?
    Escape the suffocation of political correctness & revive our original freedoms *from* the state ?

    So what to do? Any Ideas ?

  • John Smith

    It is fair to say that the Londoncentric view of the rest of the UK is miles off course
    What they think in London has little or no relevance to us in Gods own County

  • Blakenburg

    I know a immigrant from North Africa who moved out of London because of crime, violence from non whites. He stated that London was not what he thought it was before coming to the UK in 1990. He was protecting his family who were born here, hence moving to the country.

  • dugongs2

    Sorry Rod but your view of London is Zone 1 maybe a little of zone 2 in the east.

    But London covers a huge area and populous. Labour are very much westminster and kensington as are the tories. But Boris won support from the outer boroughs and suitably motivated the larger numbers outside zone 1 are far more significant and have potential to turn to UKIP.

    • Jerome Leroy

      You would be surprised at the inner London wards.

  • Ally Gory

    Aloof incompetence is the problem. UKIP isn’t anti London, UKIP is interested in the whole country, London isn’t. London doesn’t want to be capital of the UK, it wants to be capital of the World and we little people are of no interest. We’re of interest to UKIP because we might be inclined to tell those who take us for granted where they can stick their career aspirations.

    Scotland has the SNP to vote for instead of the complacent establishment, though their track record in office is most certainly not something to crow about. The Irish have their own parties and the Welsh have their issues too, but England hasn’t had a real, viable alternative to the establishment until UKIP gained momentum.

    Never mind UKIP or the SNP, some people are so desperate to try something/anything else, they’re even prepared to vote Green. The LibDems used to be the alternative and now people have realised they are devoid of principle and purpose, they’ll lose a few deposits next year. UKIP will grow, until they either achieve their stated goal of an EU referendum or their novelty value evaporates, then either someone else will step forward or voting numbers will collapse again.

    Gordon Brown was very clearly told immigration was an issue, ensuring we all had it confirmed anyone who held a view not shared by the establishment must be a bigot. Any half competent public servant should have pricked up their ears at both the complaint and the response elicited, but they didn’t. Brown even spelled out “Manifesto pledges are not subject to legitimate expectation”, yet no fuss was made by a craven media.

    The environment and the guff spouted about CO2 is politics, not science. The War on Terror seems only to have ruined lives and made a small number of people extremely wealthy and the EU is a pantomime without the laughs. There is no quiet efficiency in contemporary government, there is cheap, shouted incompetence at every turn and we are approaching exhaustion.

    I will vote in the general election and I am perfectly serious in saying if UKIP don’t provide a candidate and the Raving Loonies do, I’d vote Loony with a clear conscience. I will have read the party manifestos (which will include the SNP in my constituency), I will have examined the history of each candidate and the party they represent and I will make the only responsible decision, I will vote for an end to the complacent nonsense that has brought ruin to this country.

  • Blakenburg

    Again I shall write again due to being deleted …….I know a immigrant from North Africa who moved from London to the country because of the violence and crime by non whites, as he informed me. He was protecting his family. His children were born here. And coming to the UK in 1999, he discovered that London was not what he thought it would be.

    • Grace Ironwood

      well done !

    • Jerome Leroy

      I speak to former asylum seeker from Afghanistan, back in his home town people think money grows on trees in UK.

      What gave them that idea? 🙂

      • Blakenburg

        Did he plant that type of tree in his back yard when he arrived back in his homeland ?

  • Revolutionkid

    Do they actually believe these articles when they write them ? anybody who thinks UKIP have no presence in Scotland and Wales are in for a massive shock and as for hating London as long as we have the 3 nut jobs running the place its the whole country that hates them not just UKIP voters..

  • rtj1211

    That headline is absolute claptrap. UKIP is a party which rejects the following:

    1. Slavish belief that the EU is good for Britain. The great EUphile Lib Dem party is rather strongly represented in Scotland, the West Country and only to a minor extent in London.
    2. Slavish belief that immigration is good for the country. That has nothing to do with London, it has to do with analysis of immigration figures, its effect on national identity and failing to ask who will build and pay for all the new houses that need to be built as a result.
    3. Slavish belief that every time America tells us to go to war that we just do it. This has to do with understanding that US national interests are not the same as ours, that our nation is not obsessed with its own ‘exceptionalism’ or its own need to be dominant and that trading with America has rarely been a win-win experience for the UK, due to their assymmetric trade rules which expect open markets in the UK but protectionism in the USA.

    There is a lot of other stuff which I tend to agree with less, but those are the three distinguishing features of UKIP which put clear water between them and the three main parties.

    The only thing relevant about London is that most of the major windbags of the Three Main Parties, most of the windbags in the Press and the FCO and BBC are based in London.

    If you relocated the Press, the FCO and and English Parliament well away from London, UKIP voters would still hate the three points of view of the major parties as expressed above…….

    • Swanky

      Slavish belief that every time America tells us to go to war that we just do it.
      That’s just silly. America fights to keep savages from pulling down the gates, and so does Britain.

      • redsquirrel

        whats the point in a gate if there are no walls though?

        • Swanky

          Indeed. That’s why we have a constitution.

          • Neil Saunders

            Who’s we?

          • Swanky

            So your idea is that because America and Britain aren’t perfectly run, we should do nothing further to defend them? I profoundly disagree. You can die as a dhimmi if you like — I’d rather die fighting and free.

      • Neil Saunders

        The gates have already been pulled down, or haven’t you noticed? These wars do nothing to help indigenous British or Americans (although much to enrich the oil companies, Halliburton, etc.) – quite the opposite, in fact.

  • Jerome Leroy

    I’m from Croydon, down here we find people in bins.

    Yes, London is a dump (Labour strongholds mainly)

    • Blakenburg

      This is where Labour wants such places to appear to be dump as you put it. It then gives the impression that they will try to make things better for people living in such depressed areas when having no intensions to do so !

    • Robert the Devil

      I lived in Croydon for 25 years so I know what you mean. Thankfully, I managed to escape some years ago.

  • cambridgeelephant

    Interesting article Rod.

    Should point out that UKIP has quite a bit of traction in Wales as they came very close to beating Labour there in the Euro elections. There was just a few thousand votes in it which was and is quite incredible when you think about it.

    I am a Londoner – by birth – and very much one of the People’s Army. And I can see what you’re getting at. It’s not anti London so much as anti London smugness as personified by LibLabCon and their cheerleaders in the media. I think it’s this combination – a real hostility to the BBC/Channel4 News/Guardian types as much as LibLabCon – that does it.

    There is also the pure ‘protest vote’ factor. The Lib Dums used to get this regardless. Ok sometimes it went to the BNP or the Greenies but generally Clegg’s mob hoovered this up. Clearly the fact that they are now in Government has shattered their association with this demographic and it won’t come back this side of next May.

    The non-conformists are mostly UKIP now. And the more the establishment and that obviously includes shysters like Blair and pea brains like little Johnny Major, gang up against UKIP, the stronger the latter gets as it so obviously stands against the identikit establishment in all it’s perverse horror.

    All good stuff. Looking forward to – hopefully – a victory in Rocheseter, maybe another couple of defections/conversions and most of all May next year.

    That’s one ‘referendum’ Cameron can’t escape.

  • Rogsie

    You say that ukip are not doing well in Wales. Perhaps it would be as well to bear in mind that in the eu elections they came within 5000 votes of first place.

  • David

    This article is right in that there is a huge and growing gulf now between London, a world city, and the people in the rest of England. However I believe that the reason there is little support in Scotland and Wales for Ukip, is that, apart from Glasgow and Cardiff, last time I checked there were relatively few obvious immigrants in those two countries. Much of Scotland and Wales is remote and rural, and “asian” immigrants as they are misleadingly termed, seem to want to congregate, hugger mugger in urban areas. But Scotland and Wales are waking up to the wider realities elsewhere in the UK and support is growing, especially in Wales.

  • Fenman

    Undoubtedly Plaid Cymru and the SNP are anti-establishment parties. Having just spent a month in The Fens, then across the social spectrum it does seem that UKIP’s popularity is being driven by a total disillusion in the metro liberal establishment(politics , public sector , judiciary, BBC), whom are seen as patronising out of touch careerists with a politically correct agenda which people detest, such as gay marriage. But, immigration is a major catalyst.
    Democracy is supposed to be about the wishes of the people, but to-day from the respectable working class through the middle classes it is widely believed the main parties are ignoring them or rather just paying lip service and run by people who are not up to the job. London is different because the population is 55% immigrants!
    By the way do not forget that UKIP has a Scottish MEP, and pay do far better than you think there in May.

  • 4194

    With possibly Labour and Tories on a near dead heat, only the Lib Dems or
    possibly SNP would be the likely viable coalition partner for either.
    Maybe UKIP if they get 25 seats or so in coalition with the Tories, but
    they’re probably too scary for most Tory MPs except its far right, and
    thus might split them during the EU referendum as Britain’s limited
    economic options get exposed. This latter scenario will be an interesting journey to the EU referendum.

  • Fraser Bailey

    Good article, although this has been obvious for some time.

  • Brimstone52

    “Ukip’s … views on such stuff as … wind farms … are not so much ‘right-wing’ as simply ‘not London’”

    Wait until there are wind turbines on Hampstead Heath, Hyde Park, Primrose Hill, Romford Marshes and other open spaces. Then there will be a change of attitude.

  • Tim Morrison

    The Yes Movement is not anti-London on anti-English – it is campaigning for self-determination. London is a wonderful city, lived there, loved it. That I am a ‘Yes’ voter and SNP member has nothing to do with my feelings about that very fine place.

    UKIP is not supported much in Scotland because it has no respect for Scotland – it is an English Nationalist Party – which is fine — but really, it shouldn’t pretend to be anything else.

    • cambridgeelephant

      Thanks to Wee Eck, UKIP has a Scottish MEP does it not – as Ecky said ‘don’t vote UKIP under any circumstances’ and some naughty tartan clad folk did just that.

      One MEP is nothing much ; but big things have small beginnings as the SNP should know.

  • derek

    In the European elections Labour polled 28.7% and UKIP 28.1%. There could very well be a big surprise come next May.

  • callingallcomets

    I do love it when hacks at the Speccie and Telegraph who know frack all about UKIP and it’s 40,000+ members pontificate about the motives of its supporters and why it is rising in the polls. Fact is these hacks have long lists of contacts in the lobby and among the bright young things at party HQ (whose parents they know from their own Oxbridge days)…they are all constantly networking.
    UKIP members, including most of the top officials, simply do not move in these circles and, until a couple of years ago, were, at best, politely ignored or, more often, treated with contempt.
    Even today, like the rest of the political/cultural/media establishment they cannot bring themselves to contemplate the possibility that the plates have shifted. Come “real politics” next May they are convinced that UKIP will fade away and once again North London dinner parties will be where it’s all happening. – so why bother to cultivate any UKIP contacts…
    I suppose it was a bit like that in St Petersburg in the last few months of 1916….

  • David

    Remember Rotherham – the rape of English girls. The establishment is rotten to the core. Reject them. Reject all three establishment parties. Time to start again. We must rebuild this nation. Vote Ukip ! Onward !

  • Trofim

    I reckon we’re going to hear a lot more of the word “milquetoast” from now on.

  • spiderbucket

    They’ve been telling us the same about certain voters of our country for decades – and they might have been right at one time. But many of us have woken up to see that the people vilifying them have an agenda that has nothing to do with the best interests of the country. I knew nothing of UKIP until this year and if THEY are your biggest concern – you need to start fitting your women for bukahs.

  • tomgreaves

    London is dislocated from the country of which it is the capital. This article aptly recognises that London stands in complete contrast to those doing it tough in the rest of the country. People don’t like that. Miliband, in particular, is a disaster as the leader of the party that so betrayed the working people of this country, who has done nothing to help heal wounds and who acts like an ivory tower toff. The Eton brigade is little more than a joke.

    It says everything about the blindness and naïveté of the voting public that people who were born and brought up in a rarified world of privilege are in power. But it’s always been this way. I find it hard to believe that the inbuilt apathy of the public will ever change and so London need not worry. A few people are having a tantrum but the majority are stuck with their self image of powerlessness, and they would rather remain poor than engage their minds and their personal agency. This is not a negative view but an evidential fact, unfortunately.

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      Miliband is a Hampstead leftie with a constituency in Doncaster. I think that pretty much sums up the problem with politics at the moment. If he was MP for, I don’t know, bloody Hampstead, he wouldn’t be quite so embarrassing.

      • tomgreaves

        In the seventies we had Roy Jenkins, Michael Foot, et al, who were North London intellectuals. But the difference was that they could communicate, and they were very connected with the public in a way that Miliband, certainly is not. The current LP hierarchy is a flabby and hopelessly uninspiring gaggle of bureaucrats.

        Quite how the LP justifies it’s choice of leader is a question that it has to ask itself: where were their heads when they elected him? I fear that UKIP will sway many former LP voters, as they are the only party that are truly connecting with the underlying anger and resentment of people who feel they have been let down. The LP is no longer representing working people but the politically correct centre ground.

        • EricHobsbawmtwit

          It’s obvious really. Some people announce themselves intellectuals after a lifetime of studying just 1 book. In the Union leaders’ case that book is called Das Kapital.

          I think only 80 out of the 180 Labour MPs voted for Ed Miliband in the first round. Then you can see Ed Balls calculation in the second round, as his support went to Ed Miliband (the guy most likely to give him a job) rather than David Miliband.

          In the end it was the “intellectuals” in the union movement who decided the issue. Not the PLP, which voted for David Miliband on the whole.

        • Neil Saunders

          Then why “fear” UKIP “swaying many voters”?

  • artemis in france

    Oh Rod, you realy get it, don’t you? In the Mail this morning a Labour MP from Dudley has come out with what might well be his farewell to Labour. His little manifesto is pure UKIP. And every comment below his post was ecstatic. Even if he stays with Labour, his courage and integrity may just cause fellow Labour MPs to come out and agree with him. Either way, it’s all helpful to UKIP because it is a répétition of their message that there is another way to run Britain.

  • evad666

    The failure to purge these islands of all the individuals with their extended families responsible for the war crimes like Rotherham shows how corrupt our political institutions have become.

  • HY

    By Jove, Rod !
    Insomnia, or have you been ordered to up the word count?

  • John Steadman

    Or, put another way, Rod, ‘London is where they all hate UKIP – that is why Labour should be relieved’. – ? But will Labour still be able to rely on the white working class vote in this most vibrant of European capitals?

  • Mike

    “Ukip’s rise is primarily as a consequence of its opposition to the EU and its tough line on immigration” –

    Not directly true, Ukips rise to power is a direct consequence of mass immigration brought down on us by Labour, ignored by the Tories and encouraged by the LibDumbs. To cut back on mass immigration and all the costs that involves such as welfare benefits, education, health and housing, you have to assess what effect the membership of the EU has on those costly issues. If you are in a club that demand higher dues because you might be richer than other members, do you believe its right you should pay higher membership fees ? If you have a higher level of welfare benefits do you think its right to hand them out like candy to any benefit tourist coming into the country for the first time ?

    It is true that the direct effects of mass immigration affect some parts of the country far worse than others but everyone is paying the price in taxation where ever you live.

    Its more a case of LibLabCon rubbing your nose in it, if you can afford the fiscal costs of mass immigration but your life style and environment doesn’t change as in Blairs Islington, then perhaps you don’t care especially as you can get a nanny for next to nothing and forget about tax or NI contributions for them. But if you live in Slough with its shanty towns in back gardens or Rotherham and its sex trafficking, then everyday you have mass immigration policies pushed in your face.

  • evad666

    I just love this ;-“But I suspect that the real pull of Ukip in England is that the party,
    and Mr Farage particularly, are seen as a corrective to the vapid,
    flaccid, spineless, politically correct and wholly London-centric
    mitherings of what, until May next year, we must call the main three
    parties.”

  • Alf

    Yes: Fed up with The British Goverment, we are demanding an English Parliament that works for us and not the British one whcih does not, a restoration of democracy, values and equality for England same as Scotland’s. UKIP recognise this.

  • misomiso

    Good Article Rod.

    But remember UKIP came within a whisker of topping the polls in Wales at the European elections, so is not a small force in Welsh politics.

  • beenzrgud

    People dislike the fact that all the snouts that suck from the London trough don’t actually have to live with and tolerate the results of their inept tinkering. Make Miliband, Clegg, Cameron, and all the rest of their cronies (including quangos) go and live in the middle of Tower Hamlets (without the means to make their lot any better) and don’t let them leave for the entire period of their time in office. While we’re at it all their kids can go to a school in Rotherham too.
    I only mention Tower Hamlets and Rotherham because when all this liberal BS finally reaches its conclusion that is what the entire country will be like.

  • DaHitman

    We never voted to be in the EU, who in their right mind would want to pay BILLIONS each year to be part of an organisation that sells more to us than we do to them…………it’s like paying someone to mug you which is why only the leftist Lib-Lab-Con support it

  • Marianne Evans

    I do not hate London, it is the place where I was born and grew up in. I do however hate what it has become and for that reason I moved away nearly 2 years ago. It is no longer my London and for that I am sad.

    • wudyermucuss

      I really dislike the occupation of London,not London itself.

    • Neil Saunders

      I know exactly how you feel, Marianne!

  • disqus_9wxiA0N9Ol

    Nope.

    There is a vast cohort of sensible English Labour voters who demand Westminster regime change – but would never in a million years consider voting for the extreme right wing, London financier-led one trick looney Ukip group.

    It will rapidly wither after its ‘Orpington’ moment.

  • Chris

    I now vote UKIP, having been a lifelong Conservative voter…..why…..because I’m fed up of career minded Tory MP’s who look down their noses at and disregard the requirements of the very people who put them there in the first place. Mine is not a protest vote, it is a growing vote to make political parties re-invent themselves after major defeat, to do the very job they were elected to do without misguided personal interest. Ah well, impossible maybe, but one can dream…..lol

    • crosscop

      If they were alive today, Gladstone, Churchill and Kier Hardie would all be voting UKIP. They definitely would not be allowed to join the Tory, Labour or Lib-Dems because of their “racism” and Islamophobia.” In fact, it’s doubtful that even Nigel Farage would have such outspoken “extremists” in his party either. I mean, can anybody envisage Douglas Carswell getting up in the House of Commons with a Koran in his hand and saying “So long as this book exists there will never be peace in the world” – as Gladstone did? I live in hope…

  • david

    More nonsense!The political malfeasance know as PC started by B Liar and co has run it’s course! It’s everywhere and it’s high time it was eradicated as an excuse for dishonest local and national politicians to hide behind.

  • You need to update your research material Rod. UKIP came within a few thousand votes of being the #1 party in Wales in the recent EU elections and their support there has grown since. It is estimated UKIP will get between 8 and 10 AM seats in the next round of Assembly elections.

    Disgruntled Labour supporters have remained so because they’ve had no alternative and would rather push needles in their eyes than vote for the selfservatives. Well, they now do have a choice, UKIP and thankfully, more and more Welsh voters are making it.

  • George

    Check your facts before you print something that makes you look stupid, Glasgow has been swamped with migrants OK they are mostly EU but that’s not the point. There is a bit of an urban joke: to pull a good looking burd in Glasgow you need to speak Polish.

  • Simon Quarry

    this is patently not true.. not everyone in London agrees with the neo-social elitists… UKIP is anti neo-social elitist but clearly the author of the above neo-social elitist drivel would not like you to realise this…

  • RoadrunnerNick

    Rod somewhat underplays Ukip’s strength in Wales. In this year’s Euro elections in Wales, Ukip came second behind Labour, behind by a mere 4,349 votes (0.6 of a percentage point). One seat went to each of Labour, Ukip, the Conservatives and the fourth-placed Plaid Cymru.

  • Hagen vanTronje

    “” Indeed, a recent opinion poll suggested that the public was slightly more favourably inclined towards the EU at the moment than it has been for several years. Christ alone knows why this should be. “”

    A Liar as well as being a Blasphemer.

    Would you say,” Allah alone knows why this should be. “”
    No, because you are a gold-plated Pander !

  • Blakenburg

    That what the Man in the Moon told the Martians !

  • Lynn

    I know quite a few people in Wales looking on the outside so to speak at what is happening in England with unrestrained immigration and intend to vote UKIP, you see what happens in England will eventually if not already affect Wales and Scotland. there are many English people who have left their homes in England and moved to Wales because they don’t recognise their old neighbourhoods where they grew up. The Labour Party committed cultural genocide on the English people, would never forgive them for what they did to this country. The question is do you want immigration to control the country or do you want the country to control Immigration if it is the latter, vote UKIP.

  • Lady Magdalene

    You are wrong about Wales. UKIP gets considerable levels of support in the Principality as the YouGov daily tracker demonstrates.

    Yesterdays poll shows UKIP at 15% overall and 14% in Midlands/Wales.

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet

    We English are a minority in our own capital city… I’m not sure of any historical precedents but its this stage its hard to see how we get our country back without a civil war. As for UKIP, surely the primary attraction for voters is one of restoring democracy. We are not in control of our borders or legal system which in an age of global Islamic terrorism is unforgivable.

    • Laguna Beach Fogey

      Civil war: it’s coming.

  • Michael Bear

    UKIP is party of ENGLAND!

  • peter

    ill stick with labour thank you ukip are tories

    • stewart

      Sticking with Labour made me feel ill , I vote UKIP now and feel much better

    • Alan Haynes

      Some people would vote for a traffic cone with a Labour rosette on it.

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    UKIP is for people who love London and who hate what decades of mass out-of-control third world immigration have done to the city.

    • Alan Haynes

      THAT should have been the header for this ‘article’.

  • pobinr

    Last time I went to London I stayed in a £200 a night hotel. Staff were East European. Felt like I was in Eastern Europe.
    What good is it to me if the hotelier can pay lower wages, but I get someone that can hardly understand what I’m saying & visa versa.
    Yes folks. Mass unemployment great if your a hotelier or cofee shop owner but 5hit for everyone else.
    More traffic jams, more houses on greenbelt, higher rents & house prices, housing shortage etc etc.
    Meantine the poor low population density countries they come from get poorer & poorer losing their work force.
    It seems the left are too thick to see the bl*ed*n obvious
    Open border polciy is totally irresponsible.
    Vote UKIP

  • Medway Queen

    I’m a Londoner by birth and I’ve seen south London change completely from the place I was born and bred, in one generation. It’s not been for the better and now I fear for my daughter and future generations that have to cope with what has been forced upon them by the greed and social engineering of politicians behind closed doors, with no mandate from the people. And now I trust none of them, no political parties. I choose to vote for UKIP, because they have not yet let me down and I hate the EU. All the others are poison and not to be trusted.

    • redsquirrel

      Agreed. We are leaving for our children huge debt, massive social problems and an overcrowded country. Why? For money? It’s pretty debatable its even been worth it from that base point of view.

      • Alan Haynes

        It’s not just the money – it’s the POWER of being able to inflict social engineering on a massive scale without consent.

  • Alan Haynes

    Plenty of Londoners support UKIP – it’s just that they are woefully outnumbered by the hordes of immigrants who don’t.
    Our capital hasn’t been given the nickname ‘Londonistan’ for nothing.

    • UKSteve

      Indeed. It’s just as well this lady had courage, because no uniformed, worthless joke did.

  • Meltonmark

    Anti-UKIP propaganda article. Expect lots more of these by the Establishment. The last thing the parasite class want is to be ousted from the gravy train.

  • FrankS2

    ARe these commuter towns around London really “smug satellites”? Not everyone feels smug about living in an area where housing costs have gone through the roof.

  • John

    Labour gets the London vote because much of London is populated by immigrants. The rest of us do not hate London, we hate the continual influx of immigrants. The media fails to give the correct reasoning.

  • musicmugger

    More propaganda. London is sick of the three corrupt parties who are puppets of the American war machine / corporations, and who would much prefer to give money to causes that are nothing to do with us, and aid the worlds worst terrorist America to destroy countries, people, and democracies they have no right to interfere with, all because of their greed, and lust for power.
    We fought two world wars to rid Europe of the Nazis, and yet again they are telling us what to do. Now Merkel wants to give us to the yanks on a plate, by accepting this free trade agreement with the US. The people of the EU will not benefit from it, only the corporations, and politicians will be making anything, and probably already have. The people will suffer in every respect.
    Ken Livingstone, who I am not a supporter of, hit the nail on the head. We need to get rid of the Yanks who are using Britain to fight their dirty wars, because we HAD more credibility. The Americans have no time for us, and we should have no time for them, because they, and this puppet Tory government will have us in another world war quicker than you can flick your finger
    We need a government with balls, not one who bends over when told to.

    • Swanky

      As an American, I have to say that your ‘war machine / corporations’ idea may be deeply comforting to you, but it has nothing to do with reality. And do yourself a favour: ignore Red Ken. He is one of the most ignorant people on Earth.

      • musicmugger

        I agree about Livingstone wanky, but you yanks are basically inbred killers, who get off making war on anyone, and everyone, in your schools, the street, and any country that takes your fancy. To my mind, the day green smoke is all that’s left of America, will not be a day too soon.
        It’s time a country that is the worst terrorist of them all, found out what it’s like to have scum massacring it’s people for no other reason than greed, and the lust for power,

        • Swanky

          Beneath contempt. Grow up and do some reading. And open your eyes. If you can’t, decamp to Cuba, Venezuela, or North Korea: they like your sort, there. Or: do you live there already?

  • ohforheavensake

    Jocks and Taffs….

    You’re a nasty, shrivelled little soul, aren’t you?

    • UKSteve

      They are colloquialisms, that the Scots and the Welsh don’t mind. Get over yourself.

  • Mary Ann

    ukip a party for those who are racist homophobic sexist.

    • stewart

      Well every one deserves a voice don’t they? especially as there seem to be so many of them.

      • UKSteve

        A voice yes, a keyboard….not so much! 🙂

    • Swanky

      Are you a Russian agent, darlin’? The vernacular needs a little work. But keep trying: I’m sure you’ll manage to snow somebody, some day.

    • UKSteve

      As Swanky said, plus punctuation and grammar. And preferably, with less stereotyped ignorance and stupidity.

      If you can manage it.

  • mikewaller

    This piece resolutely refuses to face up to the elephant in the room. The reason so many people feel disaffected is that they continue to experience significantly declining living standards in spite of massive (albeit involuntary) financial largess on the part of Londoners whose cash transfers save some parts of the UK from dipping into thirdworldery, Nor is this helped by Cameron et al jumping up and down saying how clever they have been. Naturally they look for scapegoats in the form of immigrants, asylum-seekers, “corrupt” politicians and the beneficiaries of sensible liberal measures.

    What Rod and everybody else in the great media-political bubble should be doing is telling folks that the global terms of trade have changed irrevocably and that their only hope is to make the most of their opportunities and find their own salvation. Of course, that would be a lot more risky and far less fun than pumping out the routine froth as above.

  • Seumas McCoo

    For your information, the Scots have not in historical memory reached for their tins of paraffin ever. It is this kind of stupid inaccurate comment which means that people in Scotland are coming to hate the whole home counties political and journalistic machine with a rare hatred. It is not because they are English, it is because they are arrogant and live in their own little bubble.

  • M REED

    im voting ukip and so are all my family we have all had enough of being a 2nd class citizen in my country where i pay taxes to wasted on the foreign rubbish walking into my country with their rabbit wives

  • fundamentallyflawed

    “potent anti-London sentiment is robustly promulgated by the nationalist parties.”
    This.
    Any attempt to create an English nationalist party is automatically accused of racism and bigotry. Yet calls for Welsh control for Welsh people and Scottish control for Scotland is perfectly fine.

  • nicholas kenyon

    And what else does London represent for most of the rest of Britain, in addition to Metropolitan smarm? Non-white immigration. And it’s opposition to that, which UKIP, albeit without acknowledgement, so successfully channel

  • Rotherham_Solutions

    UKIP got 28.1% of the vote in Wales at the European election (just 0.6% behind Labour). Their Welsh polling for the general election has doubled from 7% to 14% in the 6 months between the ICM polls in March and September this year. Seems pretty good to me, particularly in a country that has been strongly Labour for so long. UKIP may well beat Plaid Cymru (who got 13% in the same September poll), which I suppose would be like beating the SNP in Scotland (which certainly won’t be happening, as there’s no helping some people!). What would UKIP need to achieve in Wales to impress Rod Liddle? The speed of their progress is surely better than UKIP could have hoped. As more people hear UKIP in their own words, instead of being told secondhand what they are about via the dishonest filter of liberal media types and entrenched politicians, they are coming to realise that actually they agree with UKIP on pretty much every topic. For years people would say they were sick of bickering left and right politicians breaking promises and doing crazy harmful things, and if only there was a “common sense party” to vote for. Well, now there is, so let’s do so.
    Regarding London, it is now like another country, or more accurately a little patchwork of other countries. Anyone who has so much as driven through it recently can see that. When the next big economic crisis comes along and the spotlight swings to our massive debt burden once again, the benefits tap may need to be tightened for real, and the poorer parts of London could become absolutely apocalyptic. Best not to be around there when that happens. But don’t worry, I’ve no doubt that George Osbourne will devise another pay day loan inspired arrangement to “halve” whatever bills we are facing, by simply bringing forward future income to spend in the present. Even his barber is not fit for purpose.

    • Alan Haynes

      Well said!

  • global city

    UKIP is for people who hate Primrose Hill, hampstead socialists and the man in Whitehall, the flapperatti and governmental hangers on……false charities and other liberty sappers, and of course, Europe House.

    London is a big city, so I doubt that list constitutes much of it at all. Rod’s gone for hyperbole again.

  • ouldbob

    The point really is that the EU is the 4th Reich. We see this in Wales as well. Don’t think we are stupid. UKIP has tremendous support in Wales, and anyone who doesn’t see Germany as having finally accomplished its domination of Europe is blind as well as daft

  • I’m a Londoner. I’m for Ukip.

  • bobmattfran

    Having read ssome of the comments on here from some very deluded and sad people. I thought for a moment that I was listening to a bunch of prospective candidates for sectioning under the mental health Act. Some of them are seriously deluded regarding intgernational politics which probably explains why we have the government we have, and will probably lurch further to the extreme right to satisfy the angst of those who have yet come to terms that we no longer live in the 18th century and no longer have an empire..

    • Cosmo

      Sorry, those voices you’re hearing are in your head. It’s what happens when you read the Guardian for too long. Please consult your GP as soon as possible.

    • UKSteve

      Quite spectacular stupidity. 6.5 lines of juvenile “right-on” insults with an absolutely absurd generalisation based on a stereotype hidden away. That’s quite something. I think.

      • bobmattfran

        Oh dear so deluded you refuse to recognise what is staring you in tbhe face, so typical of those with little mental discipline or effort. Shouldn’y you be enthralled with East Enders or strictly come dancing?

        • UKSteve

          You wrote that excrescence, and talk about “…mental discipline or effort…”? ROTFLMAO. Sad muppet.

          Well as you’ve mentioned them, they’re clearly more your suit. I prefer National Geographic, Sky Arts or BBC Four.

  • Diggery Whiggery

    Ahhh, just imagine an England free from Labour, free from liberal bigots, free from the hysterical mindless hysteria. Glorious Revolution 2.0 is not far away.

    As for Scots and immigration concerns, it’s easy to be pro mass-immigration when the negative effects of such a policy are felt predominantly by others.

  • Picquet

    You may be right. London is a soulless, heartless place now and probably has been for many years. And it represents only itself, as you say. I do think that the people of the country should reappraise their needs in their administration; professional civil servants are needed; professional politicians are not. Our elected representatives must be those who will debate and decide law based on our needs and wishes, in our counties, not their personal desires in their fleshpot. The Swiss could teach us a thing or two.

  • Kit

    Incorrect.

    Whilst Scotland are more pro EU the Irish and Welsh are not. Sorry but fact.

  • John

    Labour gets the London vote because much of London is populated by
    immigrants. The rest of us do not hate London, we hate the continual
    influx of immigrants. The heading of this media irem gives an incorrect and misleading headline.

  • John

    Labour can elect a new leader but it will make no difference. Labour wrecked the economy and were booted out from Government. Labour is in meltdown in Scotland. Tory and Labour are both in meltdown in England. LibDem are almost extinct – their voters have already gone to UKIP.

    Under the Tories we have seen no decrease in immigration. There are thousand of illegals rioting in Calais demanding to be let into the UK. When the previous camp of thousands of illegals at Sangette was emptied into the UK the French announced, “The French aren’t going to allow large numbers of undocumented asylum sleepers to go back to sleeping rough in the area.” Will we again get another mass influx from Calais enforced upon us by Brussels and EU Human Rights?
    We now realise under Brussels legislation no decrease can be achieved in migrants. There has been no decrease in foreign Aid, no turn-back of EU control. The euro ecomomy sinks. Tory southern coastal areas are full of asylum seekers and Eastern Europeans taking local jobs. Our cities are increasingly alien to us.

    Labour policies on immigration has robbed the UK kids of working class families by flooding the country with immigrants. Labour’s self interest continues to allow Scotland’s MPs to vote upon English affairs. Labour’s mansion tax heralds another tax to be imposed upon every home owner. The mansion will rapidly extend to taxing everyone who has worked and bought their own home. Labour’s infighting will begin when they realise their electorate percentage is decreasing prior to the
    general Election 2015 and all their Scottish seats will be won by SNP. Labour
    faces an election disaster but Labour is blind to what is happening in their UK
    electorate heartlands.

    The UK will witness a major shift in politics in 2015. Westminster will be controlled by Tory and a UKIP coalition. It has already begun but Labour with no bye-election to defend has yet to realise many of its safe seats have already abandoned Labour for UKIP.
    A Tory UKIP coalition is now unstoppable, and with UKIP’s pressure they will jointly call for major changes within the EU or we will be waving the EU bye bye.

    • Alan Haynes

      An accurate summary of our present situation – thank you.

  • Grace Ironwood

    “It’s not immigrants UKIP voters don’t like, it’s London”
    Rod, why does it have to be an either/or?
    UKIP voters don’t like the transformative, uncontrolled mass immigration that is destroying their country and they don’t like the three “progressive” parties that have enabled it.

    Simple as that.

  • Ukip the new deadly virus? Mass hysteria is spreading! ‘Ubola!’ http://pinkerspost.com/?p=504

  • dred

    London may like labour but their the only ones, labour disconnected itself from the core of voters long ago.Just as the tories and lib/dems have,the metropolitan liberal elite matter and nobody else.With no manufacturing to speak of and everything else under foreign ownership the only profits come from the city.Nearly all big business seems to channel profit through tax havens like luxembourg so the deficit goes up and the only income is taxes from those unable to fiddle it.And the main partys all have similar policies so nothing changes even after an election.

    • Grace Ironwood

      No. Labour is not Just London- yet. Look at electoral map. Tribals are still going up north. Interesting to see if UKIP can capture that vote.

      Question: Are Labour’s Northern Tribal Left sufficiently aware that London’s Cultural Left shafted them ?

      Recent council elections indicate most will still vote for them even if Labour politicians start EATING THEIR CHILDREN.

      • UKSteve

        So true, sadly.

        The Labour party lost 64% of its membership between 2001 and 2005, but in the 2005 GE, Labour were kept in power purely by London, the North East and the North West, according to the results map. The rest of the country was a real mixed bag.

        Of course, no-one then knew he was doing this:

        http://tinyurl.com/2uzb8gj

        ….which resulted in:

        http://tinyurl.com/nnjpmec

  • Jiffy

    Rod Liddle has captured an essential feature of the cause of the current constitutional and political shambles. “It is the London establishment, and it’s fatuous and self-serving shibboleths, which is loathed throughout the rest of the country, in a way which has not quite been seen before…. “. It is this loathing coupled with the establishment’s clawing and inept attempts to maintain its influence which has laid out a path quite conceivably leading to the SNP holding the balance of power in the next parliament, a Euro referendum encompassing a four home nation approval blocking clause ( in effect no exit if Scotland disapproves), continued lack of resolution of the West Lothian question, and overall to mounting tensions between different parts of the UK which will ultimately swing opinion on both sides of the Border heavily in favour of Scottish independence.

    • UKSteve

      ( in effect no exit if Scotland disapproves)….

      Screw that, we went in together, we leave together. No seperate deal just because gritforbrains Scotnatzi’s have a massive philosophical deficit in their political thinking / idea of destiny.

      • Jiffy

        Screw all you like. I’m talking about political reality. Generalised waffle about ‘going in together leaving together’ will not stand against the hard – really hard – bargaining and compromise which will follow a hung parliament with the SNP holding the balance. More broadly grasp the fact that the UK is slowly fragmenting. Accept the strength of RL’s argument.

        • UKSteve

          No you are not. We all go together, if some Scottish people are so moronic to vote SNP, that’s not our problem. The SNP may well see it as an opportunity to force secession by default, if the rest of the UK leaves the EU, but that is not going to happen. Why so many people voted Yes (and lost, btw), is beyond anyone’s understanding. They were voting not to walk a sunny, bucolic path to independence and freedom, but down a dark and uncertain alley.

          Anyway, the EU will not pick up “stragglers” if the glorious day comes…..which will take 2 years to plan anyway.

          • Jiffy

            1.There will not be a referendum unless approved by Parliament;

            2. Approval by Parliament means a majority of MPs voting in favour;

            3 A majority is in doubt in a hung Parliament in the absence of deals;

            4. A deal with the SNP might be necessary;

            5. The cost of such a deal might / probably would be the four nation approval provision mentioned earlier;

            6. There is no argument being advanced here about fairness. The majority of UK voters being blocked by the majority of a country of five plus millions is not a prescription for general contentment.

            The UK is heading into

          • UKSteve

            I don’t think they will be; there are 59 parliamentary constituencies in Scotland, how many do you think the SNP will take in May?

            Prof John Curtice (of Strathclyde Uni) says that based on Clacton, and polls for Rochester (11 days away), UKIP could win 128 seats in the Commons. Even if he’s 50% out, that still puts UKIP in as holding the balance of power, and a natural ally to the Conservatives.

          • Jiffy

            You could be right. But the way things are going for Labour in Scotland the SNP could get 40. That seems to be a bit optimistic/ pessimistic depending on your perspective. I guess that UKIP’s position in England is weaker than the SNP’s in Scotland but that is only a guess. The general point I’m making -and I’m not sure that your disagree with me – is that the current establishment are regarded as nauseating by big chunks of the UK electorate and that as a consequence politically almost anything can happen including the scenario outlined above.

          • Jiffy

            Further to yesterday: From FT 101114 p.13 (Parker)

            “Westminster Malaise”.

            “If the trends continue, neither of Britain’s main parties can expect to win an overall Commons majority in the election, which will be held on May 7. A period of instability and multi-party coalitions – possibly including minority parties as diverse as Ukip, the Scottish National party, Ulster unionists and the Greens – is a real possibility”

            Like I said – anything can happen. Alex Salmond as Deputy Prime Minister. There’s a thought.

  • SayWhat

    “neither Scotland nor Wales have been much bitten by the Ukip bug. The
    supposedly sensible view is that both of these countries are more kindly
    disposed towards the European Union than are the English.”

    Scotland and Wales are not countries. They are regions of the United Kingdom which is a country.

    • Jiffy

      ‘…..not countries…’ You are confusing the word ‘state’ (=UK) with nations.

  • UKSteve

    Well, I have good friends in London, and were it not for some “prevailing wind” factors in the run up to the Euro parliament elections, it was likely that their UKIP MEP might not have been re-elected because of the influx of immigrants now making up a large proportion of London’s population, and less ‘indigenous’ people living there. This is known locally as “white flight”. They’r ehardly UKIP voters you see (Note UKIP, Rod, an acronym, like NATO! 🙂 )

    A work colleague of mine lived in Scotland for a few years, and said they told him that they felt the BBC (in London) treated Scotland as though it was a foreign country. Complete and utter detachment from any understanding of the people or their issues. They got really angry at some BBC London reporting a sit made them look ‘backward’, I’m told.

    But you’re right about London, it has become incredibly metrocentric, and North of Watford seems to me to have been replaced with “North of St John’s Wood”. The way this government are treating the poorest and most vulnerable in society, I’m sure we all have Hampstead lifestyles.

    Of the 27 Cabinet mmembers, at the last check, 22 were millionaires, maybe 1 or 2 less now due to changes. Whatever, doesn’t bode well for us ordinary folk. No-one outside London saw any ‘recovery’, and I live in Britain’s second city!

    But the Fourth Estate are also part of this detachment; they’re as much part of the bubble as anyone. I think they’r efailing in their duty to attempt to inform the political classes (yes, you have to be listening / reading to hear / see what people are reading) to hear about what is happening to them. No that they would give a stuff; we really do have a sack of cack as our political class.

    • Jiffy

      I am not sure that we are well served by the BBC or Sky when it comes to news coverage. Both are echoes of each other.

      It’s not just that I think that the dwellers in the bubble are incompetent and self-serving, I am convinced that they actually believe that they can pull the wool over people’s eyes with impunity. If ever there was proof of this it is the recent Cameron/ Osborne self-righteous posturing about payments to the EU. We have an Army which in terms of numbers could not take on the Swiss, Police forces increasingly reliant on Specials (see Weekend FT), vastly expensive IT systems which are scrapped because they don’t work and so on….

      You will probably not agree with me but I think that in spite of being stuffed to bursting point with all manner of inventive genius and instances of demonstrable qualities of character the UK is basically knackered… and it is so because the current London establishment is as I say just nauseating and as RL says just loathed.

      • UKSteve

        I thoroughly agree. But I see another of my perfectly reasonable posts has been removed by the brain-damaged muppets who “mod” this rancid forum, so I’ll spend no longer on it than necessary.

        • Jiffy

          OK perhaps see you at another time.

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet
  • Thecountrysfinished

    “example of that rather too familiar English jingoism and xenophobia,”

    Had to stop reading after that imbecilic statement. If anyone in Great Britain is jingoistic it is the Scottish and the Welsh.

  • Gwangi

    You exaggerate the importance of Plaid Cymru, which is way weaker than the SNP and gets a tiny vote (though as in Scotland its voters are often anti-English bigots and racists). UKIP does bad in Wales because most people here are sheep who vote Labour like their parents did. UKIP are seen as Tories – and in much of Wales, Tories are an endangered species.
    In Scotland, bigots and racists vote for the SNP, so there is no need for a UKIP (Or a British National Party or NF – the SNP gets all racists to vote for them).

  • ItsAlreadyTooLate

    Perhaps the Welsh and the Scots can see that UKIP are Tories under another name.

  • Steed

    It amazes me that I still see stories talking about the “fear” that UKIP voters have of immigrants, and how they need to “understand” about immigration. Well I am married to an immigrant and my husband and I will be voting UKIP in May.

  • Hiro

    London is great, Rod, because people like you steer well away. Give me the ultra- liberal to the narrow view of how you feel England should be, any day of the week. You call yourself Millwall? You sound like some whining Nigel from Tonbridge Wells, tutting at the world from your Mondeo. Yeah, stay away.

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