Hugo Rifkind

If Ukip aren't racist, how come so many racists seem to like them?

Racism is only rarely a secret card you put in your wallet. More often, you carry it without knowing it's there

3 May 2014

9:00 AM

3 May 2014

9:00 AM

The most thought-provoking discussion about racism I ever heard took place five years ago on Channel 4’s Celebrity Wife Swap. No, it did. On the one side they had the former TV pundit and football manager Ron Atkinson and his wife Maggie, and on the other they had the former Olympic javelin thrower Tessa Sanderson and her husband Densign. Maggie Atkinson was the star. ‘Ron’s not a racist,’ she kept saying, with all the sincerity in the world. ‘He’s not. He’s just not.’

That’s all. Possibly I oversold it. The point was, this was about five years after Ron’s TV work had pretty much dried up, due to the way he had called Chelsea’s Marcel Desailly a ‘lazy nigger’ live on air. And what I wondered at the time, and have been wondering ever since, is how, in her mind, she could  square ‘Ron’s not a racist’ with that phrase. Because it’s some trick, that. It’s the key to the whole caboodle.

Ukip, just like Big Ron Atkinson, believes itself not to be racist. Until a few months ago, the party’s official description of itself on its website was a ‘libertarian, non-racist party seeking Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union’. Bit jarring, that ‘non-racist’ bit, not least because it’s presumably not lots of other things too. Marxist, Dadaist, exclusively philatelist, French, exciting in bed, an amateur female-impersonating dance troupe… hell, the list of things that Ukip isn’t must be endless. All it cared about, though, was that people don’t think it is racist. Which was a pretty glaring admission that it knew people might.

And indeed, plenty did, and do, or at least claim they do. Some of them, such as Barbara Roche, the former Labour immigration minister who was saying it this week on the front page of the Guardian, I doubt the party cares about all that much. ‘Smears!’ they probably say. Likewise, all those people who have daubed ‘RACIST!’ and ‘SHAME!’ and (my personal favourite) ‘UPRICK!’ on all these new EU election posters. Easy to dismiss. Quite a lot of them, I suspect, would be calling Ukip racist even if it very definitely wasn’t.

A much bigger problem, though, is racists who think that Ukip is racist. Because there seem to be quite a few of them, too. Take William Henwood, a party candidate in Enfield and the guy who declared that Lenny Henry should ‘emigrate to a black country’ and ‘does not have to live with whites’. That’s a bit racist, right? Or take Andre Lampitt, who featured in its election broadcast last week, and then turned out to think that Muslims were animals and Ed Miliband was Polish. Definitely not un-racist, him. Or take whoever has been unearthed in the time between me writing this and you reading this. There will have been others. Maybe lots.

‘So?’ Ukip might say. ‘Unrepresentative! Nutters! Merely indicative of a poor vetting system!’ And they might be quite right. Only, well, that’s not what the nutters think. These guys aren’t joining the Green party, are they? They look to Ukip and, rightly or wrongly, they see kindred spirits. As indeed did Marine Le Pen, the leader of the French Front Nationale. ‘In the past, he was rather courteous towards us,’ she said last week, sounding slightly bewildered, after Nigel Farage ruled out an alliance with her party because of its historic anti-Semitism. Look, good on him. A sound call. But personally, if I were him, I’d have a nagging worry about the way she’d been so surprised.

The thing is that, like Ron Atkinson, all of these people probably don’t think that they are racist. They just think things, and do things, and probably believe in them. And when people shout ‘Racist!’ at them, they tell themselves that these people are missing the point. They might not know, though. For racism is only rarely a secret card you put in your wallet. More often, you carry it without even knowing it’s there. Like herpes.

It is the difference, for example, between worrying that Britain cannot cope with a vastly increased population, and portraying this in terms of a weird, babbling horde massing for invasion on the beaches of Europe. It’s the difference between recognising that anti-immigrant sentiment is horrid, damaging and terrifying, and being sanguine about stoking it up for political gain. It is the difference between knowing why there are words you shouldn’t say, and merely knowing that saying them might get you into trouble. Ukip, to me, seems to fall down on the wrong side of all of these divides.

Hell, maybe I’m wrong. If it isn’t a racist party, though, why do so many racists think it is?

A death in the Middle East

Hardly anybody seems to have noticed the Middle East peace process quietly dying this week. Across the world, it seems, more coverage seems to have been devoted to John Kerry using the word ‘apartheid’ (quite reasonably, in the context) than to the general collapse of the only talks to have happened since the last ones.

The world is bored with Israelis and Palestinians. More importantly, I think Israelis and Palestinians are bored with Israelis and Palestinians. Israel’s wall works well, at least for Israelis, and you’d rather be a Palestinian than a Syrian.

Meanwhile, West Bank infrastructure grows and grows, to the extent that both sides must be deeply reluctant to risk the chaos that would be unleashed by bombing it. Somehow, a wholly unsustainable situation seems to have been sustained for almost half a century now. Everybody always says that something has to change. Maybe it doesn’t, though. Maybe it won’t.

Got something to add? Join the discussion and comment below.

Hugo Rifkind is a writer for the Times.

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Show comments
  • Richard N

    If UKIP are racist, then according to the latest polls, 38% of British people are racist.

    What is this obsession with this ‘racist’ thing, anyway?

    It’s like shrieking ‘Witch!’ and pointing at someone in the Medieval period – a curse word almost like you expect someone to go up in smoke if you say it.

    The reason that it’s been brainwashed into all the ‘useful fools’ by the liblabcon-controlled media is that they don’t have any convincing arguments to counter UKIP’s – so they have to rely on this demonisation of people, by shouting ‘fascist!’ or ‘racist!’ at anyone who dares to question the desirability of flooding our country with immigrants.

    As if people didn’t have the right to want to decide for themselves how many foreigners they want to let come to live in their country.

    • Randy McDonald

      “If UKIP are racist, then according to the latest polls, 38% of British people are racist.”

      It could well be, yes.

      • wudyermucuss

        Only the white ones obviously.

        • rugby god

          indeed, the black racists become MP’s for labour!

          • Angus_MacLellan

            And judges.

        • Randy McDonald

          In that UKIP membership might be a proxy for racism directed against non-white people, sure. That’s the only racism it can speak to.

          • saffrin

            The only racist party in the UK is Labour. Thirteen years they did inspire it by introducing laws that discriminated one race from another.

      • Shorne

        I would estimate it a higher percentage than this and while racial awareness training and anti-racist laws might lead to people modifying their outward behaviour they leave inherent attitudes untouched. When something like UKIP comes along it provides a conduit and a veneer of respectability for the expression of these attitudes and that is where the danger lies. If UKIP isn’t racist it attracts people who are and a man is known by the company he keeps. UKIP will probably ‘win’
        the local and European elections, benefiting from proportional representation and there will be much crowing from the UKIP claque.However come 2015, which is the only election that really matters, with first past the post they will almost certainly fail to win a single seat, never mind the polls this is what the bookies are predicting and they are usually right.

        • Pip

          You have nothing to be concerned about then do you.

      • Ricky Strong

        You should come down to my local pub and ask the Sikhs what they think of muslims, or ask the blacks what they think of the asians, or ask the Muslims what they think of the jews. Plenty of racism in this country from all corners of society.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Sounds like I`d fit right in.

      • UKSteve

        “could”. Wow. Convincing. Authoritative.


    • John Dalton

      These relentless attacks on UKIP are getting really boring now. They betray the desperate panic of the metropolitan bubble dwellers that their cosy little consensus might finally be coming to an end.

      • Pip

        I wonder if they think we will forget their dishonesty and smearing after the Elections, the damage this kind of disgraceful trashy nonsense is doing to the reputation of the British Press and BBC is incalculable. Rifkind’s transparent and insulting attempts to smear UKIP will never be forgotten in my mind, how about debating the issues Hugo instead of spreading muck at the behest of those who pay you.

    • Pip

      Maybe we should pose the question, why do Liars, Fraudsters, Pedophiles and Criminals favour LibLabCon?

      • helicoil

        If LibLabCon aren’t pedophiles then why do most kiddy-fiddlers seem to like them?

        • Pip

          Possibly because they are protected by them.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Pip, you took the words right out of my mouth. Paedophelia goes to the very top of the British establishment. In fact, one solid reason for keeping it under wraps as far as possible is the damage exposure would do to to the national morale. All those opinion leaders the public looked up to exposed as kiddie fiddlers and perverts.

    • Ooh!MePurse!


    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      Richard, where did you get the witch analogy from?

    • Gnaeus-Julius Agricola

      It all came from Hugo Rifkind`s oh-so-clever friends and relations from seeking to cover the yellow card with as many brown and black cards as possible. A defensive mechanism.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      “If UKIP are racist, then according to the latest polls, 38% of British people are racist.”
      You`ve got my vote.

    • a_no_n

      Actually it’s closer to a hundred percent.

      Human beings are instictually racist. we’re a tribal species, it’s something that occurs naturally, just like our violent tendancies.

      However like our violent tendancies we do our best to not enable or satisfy it because we know it’s wrong.

      So when UKIP come along and start redefining the boundaries of hatred by comparing it to a nice cup of tea you see why people get frightened…especially people who know their recent history.

      The reason there are no convincing counters to UKIPS arguments are because UKIP are not making arguments. they’re making scapegoats.

      They take a problem and they point a finger at a small group of people.

      It’s a simple answer to a complicated problem, and simple answers make people feel comfortable. Unfortunately simple answers are rarely correct.

      Those people who don’t want more foreigners coming here would do well to pick up a history book and learn why those foreigners are coming here.

      *Spoiler alert*
      We invaded all of their countries, plundered them and ruined their economies. Britain is reaping what they sowed. those foreigners are just as British as any Saxon. they came into their britishness in the exact same way, through conquest. those Foreigners from the commonwealth have just as much claim to be British as you do.

      • chrisdbarnett

        “We invaded all of their countries, plundered them and ruined their
        economies. Britain is reaping what they sowed. those foreigners are
        just as British as any Saxon”

        No we didn’t. That’s right we didn’t prosper from the commonwealth.

        I noticed you mentioned the Anglo-Saxons but you didn’t mention the Normans did you?

        Most folk who are of Anglo Saxon stock would not have benefited from the old empire as a matter of fact, their ancestors would have known nothing put poverty…I bet there are many people living in Britain today of Anglo Saxon stock, who’s ancestry has known nothing but poverty and used + abused for generations.

        DO NOT try and lay the blame for the likes of David Cameron’s slave trader ancestors on normal English folk.

        Also please don’t insult everyone’s intelligence by making out that anyone who’s against immigration is mooting it as some kind of silver bullet.

        It’s isn’t.
        Stop exporting jobs abroad.
        Protect our markets.
        Nationalise all the banks.
        Stop the wars.
        Nationalise the railways and utilities
        Nationalise the Royal Mail.

        Yes, that’s right, I’m not UKIP. They don’t have the answers because they would just take control of the country away from Brussels and then sign-off into the laps of big business and the banks – no thanks.

        • a_no_n

          We didn’t prosper from the empire…can you explain to me how you come to that conclusion please, because you suggest it and then….nothing, no explaination, no reasoning for that conclusion, just the statement on it’s own, ignoring everything from the crown jewels to the east india trading company.

          I didn’t mention the Normans because they did what norsemen did best and assimulated over the Saxons…it’s a semantic that you’re arguing there.

          English folk joined the armies that enslaved those countries…they looted the corpses of the fallen and sacked the cities of India…please don’t try whitewashing history to excuse the part your ancestors and mine might have taken in atrocities.

          I’m proud of who i am good and bad, it all adds up to this thing we call History. and those that fail to learn from it are doomed to repeat it.

          politically i agree with you, UKIP are the worst possible thing that could happen to this country. But by trying to whitewash over history, you’re no better than they are!

          • chrisdbarnett

            Please don’t try and tell me that working class folk managed to lift themselves out of poverty in large numbers directly down to any atrocities committed by the crown against foreign lands.

            Some people may have served in armies, even less may have looted and profited directly, but that would not have even lifted those out of poverty.

            Your crass generalizations are as bad as any bigoted racist.

            To say that the general Britain owes anything to foreign people just because their ancestors were looted hundreds of years ago, is just insane, bonkers – but the fact of the matter is, it’s incredibly dangerous because if anyone, it lets those who really did make mega bucks, clean off the hook.

          • a_no_n

            but…it doesn’t matter if they didn’t lift themselves out of poverty. It doesn’t change the fact that they raped and looted the cities that they conquered.
            We have documented evidence of this from the dispatch reports…i know you’re trying to build up a romantic image of old Tommy,

            Anyway you’re looking really small scale. You think things like the NHS and the BBC were built on hopes and dreams? No they were built on the profits of Empire.

            The British museum got most of it’s pieces through violent means…These are the ways i’m talking about.

            There;s nothing crass about what i’m saying, just documented history…Bonkers as it may be, that’s empire for you.

            please don’t try telling me i’m a racist whilst trying to excuse the atrocities of our countries past…it makes you look kinda stupid.

          • chrisdbarnett

            Read this carefully.

            My country may have done some terrible things, but it was the wealthy and the Crown that made the decisions and profited from such decisions, not normal British people.

            I don’t think it fair that poor people should be taxed for the sins of *some* of the rich.

            It’s really that simple.

            I won’t sit here and be told to accept mass immigration as it’s logical conclusion is the demise of my own people.

            And by my own people, I’m not talking about the likes of the Queen.

          • a_no_n

            It doesn’t matter if they didn’t lift themselves out of poverty. It doesn’t change the fact that they raped and looted the cities that they conquered.
            Atrocity isn’t like taxes, there’s no lower bracket of income for qualification.
            We have documented evidence of these events from the dispatch reports…I know you’re trying to build up a romantic image of old Tommy, but unfortunately that isn’t the reality, it never has been, the reality has always been infinity more interesting than that!

            Anyway you’re looking really small scale.

            You think things like the NHS and the BBC were built on hopes and dreams? No they were built on the profits of Empire.
            The British museum got most of it’s pieces through violent means…The Egyptians didn’t just hand all of their ancient treasures, we took them, and we built entire universities on the profits.

            There;s nothing crass about what i’m saying, just documented history…Bonkers as it may be, that’s empire for you.

            please don’t try telling me i’m some kind of a racist whilst trying to excuse the
            atrocities of our countries past…it makes you look woefully misinformed.

  • stinkypoo

    This is just a wild guess, but could it be that with the very obviously co-ordinated anti-UKIP smearathon that’s going on, only UKIP supporting racist tweeters are deemed worthy of a mention in the news? One can only guess how often the professional dirt diggers discover a good racist twitter stream only to be be disappointed when they turn out not to be UKIP supporters.

    • Hugo Rifkind

      “Very obviously co-ordinated” by whom, out of interest?

      • Hippograd

        Cultural Marxists such as yourself, Mr Rifkind. And the “co-ordination” is similar to that seen in a swarm of angry wasps. A good cultural Marxist does not need to be told when to attack a thought-criminal.

        • Hugo Rifkind

          This is fascinating. So, when like-minded people attack Ukip, that’s mindless group-think? But when other like-minded people defend Ukip, it isn’t? Just to be clear?

          • Hippograd

            It’s far from mindless for cultural Marxists to promote cultural Marxism, Mr Rifkind. You will benefit from it. Or so you suppose. I hope that clarifies my far-from-subtle comparison with wasps. It is also far from mindless for me and other anti-Marxists to defend UKIP. They are not perfect, but they do at least seek to prevent the UK from ascending quite so quickly to the sun-lit heights occupied by diverse nations like Iraq and the former Yugoslavia. Mass immigration by Muslims and blacks is extremely bad for a liberal democracy like the UK. Israel, being a wise liberal democracy, recognizes that fact and acts on it.

          • sarahsmith232

            Where was the ‘mindless’ part of his post? From your small world Metro’ perch belonging to this ‘elite’ set is evidence of cultural separation and superiority. This isn’t mindless this is human. It’s brought on by the common place need to feel a sense of belonging to a group, the believe in this groups innate and actual genetic superiority is because of your ignorance. The reason why you and your lot believe that you are of a superior breed is because you believe in really quite idiotic descriptions of ‘the other’, i.e your fav’ Little England, swivel eyed, uneducated ‘left behinds’, half-wit caricatures.
            The defenders of Ukip are also defending their groups turf, so is also not an e.g of a mindless motivation. The reason why you believe there’s a separation though is ’cause you believe that you are in the right, though, and the rest are only the swivel-eyed lot.

          • Hugo Rifkind

            I cannot even begin to explain how much I’d love to have the wealth and social life that posters like your good self seem to think I do. It sounds utterly amazing.

          • sarahsmith232

            Ok luvie, hmmm, not sure that gets at the prob’ though. Don’t know whether a person would need to be physically constantly out and about to associate themselves with what they imagine is a superior group. Just reading about the opposers and believing that the descriptions are real, that their really are enormous great swathes of the country populated by the swivel-eyed, is part of the process.
            I’m constantly amazed by how little the writers understand the tricks that the TV media get up to when making Reality TV shows like ‘Benefits Street’. F.Nelson described the show as great ‘investigative journalism’. A person a million times more intelligent than I am but obviously couldn’t recognise how fake it all was. You’re are all going to have to familiarise yourself with such a thing as a storyboard, these shows are effectively scripted.
            When you live in a small world you can then only get to understand people who are not like you via the media, the media feeds you nothing but a constant stream of pro Metro media elites propaganda though. After decades of taking this in you all have become, well, I mean, quite simply, brainwashed. Prob’ – same deal with the politicians. Of all stripes bar Ukip. Farage is the antidote, he and the rest of Ukip are one in the eye for you all. A good Ukip kicking come May the 23rd is needed.

          • Pip

            You are not attacking UKIP you are smearing them in an attempt to influence public opinion but it will have the opposite effect are well as damaging your credibility in the process.

          • Mc

            I’m guessing your critics are irked by the fact that when UKIP and it’s supporters are attacked for an allegedly inexcusable view, the attackers conveniently and consistently fail to mention that other parties and their members frequently have exactly the same failings and often in larger measure. For example, before UKIP existed, who did all those “racists” vote for? I’m guessing quite a few voted for your daddy and his party.

          • Mc

            Hugo, you can’t stand UKIP because you think it’s members are racist. Considering that many people with similarly “racist” views read the Spectator, is it not rather hypocritical of you to have anything to do with the Spectator?

        • Pro EU & Labour

          Why is it that whenever UKIP is criticized kippers always bang on about it, as if they think that their precious party and its dear leader are beyond scrutiny? All the other parties come under the microscope too, and they answer any critical analysis with counter argument etc. All kippers do is throw a childish tantrum that people have had the temerity to criticize their policies, such as the proposed 31% tax rate, fees to see your GP, and unpaid holiday leave.
          Grow up, kippers.

          • DaHitman

            Why does the fascist Lib-Lab-Con smear them on a daily basis, do they feel their clique is under threat?

          • Boy Charioteer

            Why are Lib-Lab-Con fascists? Did they come to power in a coup or something?

          • DaHitman

            Because together the Lib-Lab-con attack, lie and smear any other party they see as a threat when in a true democracy the Lib-Lab-Con wouldn’t exist, we’d see a genuine Liberal one, left-wing one & a right-wing one which would give the public a real choice…………..the problem is you Socialists infested them all creating the fascist Lib-Lab-Con

          • Boy Charioteer

            Whether they lie and smear is irrelevant. That’s what politicians do, including UKIP. That still does not make them fascists. When did “you Socialists” create the Lib-Lab-Con?

          • Pip

            Eyes wide shut in your case.

          • Boy Charioteer

            No answer then? You exhibit the complete two dimensional shallowness of your master’s character. Strange how you accuse the main parties of fear of “debating the issues” then in replying to me you make a sneering comment.

          • DaHitman

            Putting your head in the sand again like a leftist, the fact remains the Lib-Lab-Con have been smearing them as one, that isn’t good for democracy but on the bright-side it does tell people to UKIP if they want an end to the Lib-Lab-Con clique

          • Pip

            Because they fear debating the issues because they have nothing to offer other than more of the same so they are doing what fools do, attack the messenger, but the Electorate are getting wise to it now and it wont work anymore, in fact it will merely serve to damage the Establishment and credibility of the MSM.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            They don’t come under the microscope to this extent. The establishment lost the rational debate so have since resorted to irrational arguments and avoided the real issue of our EU membership.
            Weeding out the idiots takes time, UKIP is a new party, but if you don’t smell a rat that all this has come out weeks before an election you need to seriously re-thing your approach to politics and life in general.

      • wudyermucuss

        Barbara Roche,for one.
        And the Tories :

        Please,do try and keep up.

        And how come you don’t know about the Roche campaign?
        It’s been all over the media,pretty hard to miss.
        Just out of interest of course.

  • Keith D

    I would posit that the racism damaging this country comes from LibLabCon. What else would you call the deliberate and systemic supplanting of the indigenous population and workforce.
    All to appease the god of Euro Multiculturalism.
    Theres a law in the UN against that kind of thing.

  • Streben80

    So if UKIP is racist, what is the explanation for the Conservative council candidate Dr Peter Moseley’s name appeared on the BNP membership list leaked in November 2008? Is this an indication of the true nature of the Nasty Party? Atleast UKIP ban people with who have been involved with such organisations, apparently the Tories have gone all the way into converting to New Labour and now make such people council candidates, is that what they call ‘progressive’?

  • Hippograd

    “Racism” is a term invented by cultural Marxists to demonize whites for wishing, like every other group on earth, to retain control of their own nations and to associate freely with their own kind. If Hugo Rifkind is so concerned about this entirely natural desire, I can think of a nation that is behaving in a much more obviously “racist” way than UKIP:

    Israel readies for mass deportation campaign targeting African migrants

    Imagine the shrieks of horror from Mr Rifkind and his fellow conservatives if UKIP proposed such a thing. Deportation? For blacks? But where will our future Nobel-prize winners and technological innovators come from? Strangely, however, when Israel declines to avail itself of the great contributions offered by blacks, Mr Rifkind and his fellow conservatives do not seem to mind. I support Israel fully in its actions. It is a Jewish state and should take any necessary steps to remain so. Mutatis mutandis, the same applies to Britain. Cultural Marxists obviously don’t agree.

    • Hugo Rifkind

      If it helps, I consider Israeli treatment of African migrants to be frequently pretty appalling. Unlike you, it seems.

      • Saikourufu

        Just out of curiosity. Do you consider the treatment given to white africans by the ANC and by ZANU-PF appalling ?

        • Hugo Rifkind

          Of course I do. Who doesn’t?

          • Saikourufu

            Well, never seen nobody on the hard left complaining about it.

            Both my parents are white africans that were called coloners and simply deported to europe in the 70’s. Till this day I’ve never heard an apology or a denounce of these massive deportations.

          • Hugo Rifkind

            FYI, my mother is from Zimbabwe and I have lived in South Africa. And nowhere else in the world other than the Spectator’s comments section could I possibly be regarded as “hard left”!

          • Saikourufu

            I know you are not ‘hard left’. I used that expression because ideologically they are forbidden to speak up about black racism. I was afraid of missing the odd man out, like yourself.

          • Raw England

            With respect, Hugo (well, not really), you’re a London Liberal prat. A weak, feminised, London Liberal prat.

          • Hugo Rifkind


          • Ben

            Do you admit that there are significantly more ex BNP members in the 3 “mainstream” parties?

            Why are you not making this a part of this article?

          • Pip

            Because such truths do not suit the agenda of those he unwisely seeks to support.

          • chump23


          • Ben

            Well….For starters Labour has at least 30 councillors who are ex bnp.

            Have a lookat the following links for more stories (reputable sources? From then why don’t you access the world wide web? Try putting “Current labour politicians / councillors / members who are ex bnp” use your imagination.

            From the Guardian:

            Former Labour, Tory and Lib Dem members on BNP list
            • ‘Nine ex-Conservatives’ on leaked files
            • Merseyside police officer suspended from duty


            From the Telegraph:

            Will Straw, son of Jack Straw, gets support from ex-BNP member for his bid to be an MP
            Will Straw, the son of a former Labour Home Secretary who is bidding to become an MP, has received the official backing of an ex-BNP organiser.


            From the Star:
            Mayor candidate admits party ex-BNP members – The Star
            13 Mar 2013 – Mayor candidate admits party ex-BNP members … be decided on second preference votes and it is on these we have a clear lead over Labour.

            From Labour list:

            Yvette Cooper attacks “hatred and racism” of EDL and BNP …
   › News‎

            31 May 2013 – “It is only the BNP and the EDL, with their ignorance and hatred, who want … Former BNP GLA member Richard Barnbrook was a Labour Party …

            From the croydonadvertiser:

            Former Croydon Conservative councillor standing as …


            18 Apr 2012 – A FORMER Tory councillor, who left the party after a bust up with local members, … Mr Cakebread is standing for the English Democrats as a list …. EDs used to be centre right but now are full of ex-BNP members and have …


            Shall I go on?

          • chump23

            That doesn’t prove what you said at all. Most of these are case either of a former BNP person saying they support someone – so what? Or cases where people leave the big three and join the BNP.
            Totally different.

          • a_no_n

            wow…it’s been a very long time since i’ve seen someone quote the star as a source with a straight face.

          • a_no_n

            do you have any evidence for that claim?

          • Shorne

            Surely you’re not trying to have us believe you’re normal…

          • Randy McDonald

            And apparently you don’t like women.

          • Peter

            Yes we also have the right to go to European countries and work. Over 2 million UK people have done so. Time for humanity to GROW UP. Learn to share the planet with each other. What goes around comes around. If we go to other countries as we have done in the past to exploit them then we can only expect the return. Its called KARMA baby. Experts say that in 400 years we will all be the same colour!!!!

          • Des Demona

            Indeed! The comment section begins to sound like a Nuremberg Rally.

          • lojolondon

            Hugo, Peter Hain claims similar parentage/history to yourself, so where your parents were born is certainly no indication of political leanings or intelligence.
            I also guess you are not very familiar with this ‘internet’ thing, or you would have found far less moderate views than the Spectator’s comments section!

          • Tom M

            You must be some hue of left to be shouting racist at every opportunity.

          • chump23

            why? I am a conservative and I hate racism.

          • Tom M

            Good, me too. Just to clear up a point of order. My views are of racialism, that is the implied superiority of one race over aonther (Negro, Mongoloid or Caucasian, there are no other races). Racism is a PC term used to shut you up when debating anybody else.
            My post was referring to the group of people who scream “racist” at every juncture in a debate. These people always seem to be from the left.

          • a_no_n

            It’s also things like stereotyping, and spouting misinformed nonsense like calling Asians Mongoloids and forgetting that Arabs exist.

            did it ever occur to you that perhaps you keep getting called a racist for a legitimate reason?

          • Tom M

            No it isn’t. Racism as a definition is exactly as I described. Read it again. Stereotyping, in your example, is exactly what isn’t racism.
            The only races in the world are Negro, Mongoloid or Causcasian. Commenting upon those races in comparative terms could well be described as racism (or as it used to be more correcty called racialism).
            To discuss derogatory comments about other people in terms of racism is wrong however disagreeable these comments might be. To do so is a subtle redefinition of the word to suit political ends.

          • a_no_n

            ah so judging entire races of people based on a single simplified stereotype isn’t racism?

            but calling a white person racist for saying something horrible IS racist.

            amazing, utterly amazing. you’re either pulling my leg with this nonsense or you are clinically insane.

          • Tom M

            Dear me. Either you are being obtuse or you aren’t reading what I write.
            Racism or racialism is a word related to adverse commments on someone’s RACE (Negroid Mongoloid or Caucasian) implying some inferiority of one over the other (whether using stereotypical examples or not). That is the correct definition of the two words. It doesn’t mean anything else. Look it up in the dictionary.
            Making some offensive remark about someone’s nationality or place or origin is not racism. The term racism is this context is distorted and it’s meaning totally changed from the original definition.
            If you wish to find a term indicating your general dislike of say Germans for example then you should find something other than racism to indicate that. Something along the lines of nationalistic might serve you better.

          • a_no_n

            I did read, and after taking five minutes out to laugh at the sheer stupidity of it i replied.

            so where on your list do Native Americans, Indians, Arabs and aboriginal Australians sit? are they all caucasion?

            please tell me how this hideously racist sysyem of yours works.

            (and before you try telling me again that it isnb’t racist either tell me why it isn’t racist or google the word and find out what it actually means).

            the only word i need know for you is twat.

          • Tom M

            This isn’t going anywhere. Your list explains you do not understand what race means. Therein lies the problem
            I strongly suggest that you educate yourself as to what the denominations of the human race are.
            You seem to have some peculiar idea of your own and I can’t explain it in any more detail. It’s truly embarassing that you chose not to understand but there it is.

          • a_no_n

            I’m trying to educate myself…i’m STILL waiting for you to tell me where Native Americans, Indians Arabs and aborigonee australians fit in to your three tier scale…

            you say there are three races, i point out that’s wrong because there are quite obviously more than that, i even go so far as to name them, and you’ve ignored that and presented the same statement which i’ve just proved false.

            explain it to me. i’m dying to find out how you fit this nonsense together.

          • Tom M

            Good try this link,
            This was the first one I came to. There are many such articles to explain the teminology it surprises me you haven’t read any.
            By the way North America Indians are apparently ‘mixed race”.
            Arabs are people who originally came from Arabia, that is Saudi Arabia now. The term is used incorrectly to apply to just about anybody in North Africa (they did spread out a bit in the 7th century) and the near east who isn’t Jewish. The term doesn’t denote their race (see the link for an explanation).
            The link article debates and concludes the origin of Aborigines as being Negroid.
            When you’ve read, marked and inwardly digested the link article (and any others you care to refer to come back and discuss the term racism with me again.
            I’ve stopped being slightly annoyed at the apparent lack of understanding and am now settled down to enjoy the debate.

          • a_no_n

            wow…so no scientific evidence then, an opinion article on some backwater blog site..

            .Is this what you call education? It’s pathetic, it’s not evidence, not even close. It barely even qualifies as coherent never mind correct.

            wow you’re just throwing the N word out there without the slightest hint of shame…and you claim to not be racist…seriously, this catalog of idiocy is textbook racism.

            l;ol jews don’t qualify as a race either,m good lord in heavan.

            i’m afraid we aren’t going to be able to have any sort of debate, to have a debate you need an argument, what you’ve got is a mad rant that is quite literally insane, and so disconnected from reality that i’m starting to wonder if you’re pulling my leg with this bullsh1t.

          • Tom M

            Mmm. Interesting turns of phrase you have. I haven’t come across that style of debating before.
            However, if I can recapitulate I have given you one link address and suggested how to find many more that offer the current state of educated opinion on the formation of the human race.
            You have, in rather colourful language, told me you disagree. In this democracy that is a perfectly normal thing to do. Now though you must offer your anthropological explanation of the construction and evolution of the human race to support your as yet unexpalined position.
            I await with interest.

          • a_no_n

            lol debate? you think i’m debating with a wingnut like you?

            tell you what mate, actually get yourself an argument based in fact and maybe you’ll; have something to debate with.

            As it is i’m just throwing good arguments against your lunacy which you justify with a single article on a blog site that has no scientific data backing up it’s conclusions, and is literally just a string of insulting observations about races which the author obviously has absolutely no experience of or connection with besides his seething hatred for them.

          • a_no_n

            lol hark at you talking about “Styles of Debate” as if you’ve ever had one.

            ooh get a load of mister fabulous here, dredging up all the three syllable words he can think of in a desperate attempt to appear like an intellectual.

            You’re wrong because there are more than three races, any idiot can tell you that. i’ve counted them for you at least three times now, but you insist there are only three…because you haven’t got a clue, you’ve ignored every moment of human history and social evolution to march that tripe out, tripe that is based far more in your own issues than any semblance of reality.

            i think we’re done here.

          • a_no_n

            again, i’m trying to educate myself but you refuse to explain your position, you make a single idiotic statement that makes no sense and present it as if that’s enough, like your jesus christ himself and your word is law…it isn’t, you need to explain the gaps in logic that i have pointed out.
            four comments later and i’m STILL waiting for an answer.
            all this blustering is just you trying to squirm away from your indefensible position.

            since you seem to be forgetful let me ask you again.
            if the human race is divided into whites blacks and people from Mongolia, then where do Arabs Indians, the rest of the asians and the Aborigines fit?

            it’s an honest question, one that you refuse to answer which leads me to believe that not even you know what you actually think.

          • a_no_n

            considering what they did first i think apologies are needed both ways…or are we only counting one side of history in this liitle spiel of yours?

          • Saikourufu

            Why should my parents apologise for something that they haven’t done ? And the apologies have been given a long time ago ! But still we wait for our deserved apologies !

          • Colonel Mustard

            Write an article about it then.

        • Randy McDonald

          What, pray tell, has the ANC done?

          • Saikourufu


          • a_no_n

            yeah ending slavery usually throws slavers into economic meltdown.

            you’ll forgive me if i don’t weep for you.
            some might call it Karma.

          • Saikourufu

            Some might call it Racism !

      • DaHitman

        So what are all those Muslim countries around Israel that shove the Africans to Israel, surly that would make them racist?

        • wudyermucuss

          My dear child,racism only emanates from whites.
          Do please try and keep up.

          • Pip

            The irony is that the way the meaning of the term Racist has been perverted by the Establishment and Media in a desperate attempt to smear UKIP will in reality merely serve to bring into question the true meaning of the term.

          • a_no_n

            nobody has ever said that anywhere ever.

            However oddly enough 90% of unwarrented persecution syndrome seems to come from whites who feel like their rights are being eroded away dispite being more comfortable than any other human being to have ever existed.

          • chrisdbarnett

            The main problem in Britain is the class system and richer whites who have hijacked the anti-racist cause to maintain the status Quo.

            If a bunch of working class lads are caught drunk vandalizing some property, then the police would have a good old clamp down and make sure the offenders are prosecuted.

            However, if the drunken offenders were middle class, then it would be “Well…they are just young, they have their whole lives ahead of them and the need pointing in the direction…a night down the cells will shock them…”

            Because it’s working class whites bearing the brunt of immigration and therefore are way more likely to be victims of anti-white racism that their middle-class counterparts, then the police will simply ignore them, sometimes even go so far as lying and accusing them of racism.

            Many working class whites have given up on the police to look for protection from anti white racism. Many are terrified to report racist behavior against them, because there is normally a false counter claim of racism in return….and yes, seldom is the original white victim of racism believed.

            It’s not because they are white that they aren’t believed, it’s because they are working class and white.

            Sometimes I honestly believe that police know that they are talking the truth, but still won’t help.

            It’s a class problem, not a racial one.

            Mass immigration would not be anywhere near a bad experience for working class whites, if the some middle and upper class whites weren’t such selfish, vindictive cretins.

            It’s the government and a lot of richer whites who working class whites blame, not immigrants.

            If richer whites and the far left weren’t such divisive cretins, causing trouble every which way, then I’d take the UKIP position that some immigration is harmless.

            But I don’t. I’m in the BNP.

            Immigration has to stop.

      • Ben

        Why will you not allow me to post a list of TORY / LIB DEM / LABOUR politicians and members who have links and held BNP membership on this blog?

        • Pip

          The truth doesn’t suit the Establishment Agenda that’s why.

        • lojolondon

          Ben, if you have such a list, I think it should definitely be made public. At the very least, please send it to UKIP so they can at least defend themselves!

          • Ben

            Firstly……I may have to issue an apology to the moderator.
            I was perhaps to quick to say my comments were all being deleted. They have appeared. Certainly I have already put about 4 links to national newspaper articles which give this info on various comments I have already posted in this blog.

            As for sending this list to Ukip HQ? I’m sure that they already know the extent of the lib/lab/con duplicity in this matter.

            But for your info…..

            Simply Google: Tory/Labour/Lib Dem members and politicians with BNP background and links….

            The search engine will do the rest.

            Also; try googling mps with criminal records

            Or Mps with prosecutions for sexual misconduct or child abuse prosecutions……

            Tells a nasty story indeed!

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            These things can be found on the web.

            Just google labour25.

            The difference is the MSM won’t cover stories which don’t suit their agenda.

          • a_no_n

            hmm, kinda like in the same way that UKIP never cover the Grants that we get from the EU.

            Or how UKIP don’t inform the working class they’re trying to con on how leaving the EU and losing workers rights legislation means employers will be able to fire them on a whim.

            You know, the way that UKIP really play down Farages establishment links so that it doesn’t look like he’s a fully paid up member of the establishment with a lot of very rich backers who have something to gain from his far right ideology?

            agenda stuff like that?

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            Ah, so you think one part of a massive legislation bill which puts so much red tape around recruitment is worth 57 million a day to us, why can’t we have our own legislation? Isn’t this what we pay our MPs for in any case?

            What do bankers have to gain from it?

            go on,?

          • a_no_n

            well, it doesn’t cost 57 million a day…first of all the number is closer to 49 million…Farage was caught out overinflating the figures, no surprise to see his brainwashed cultists still spout it.

            and lo and behold you’ve also conveniently neglected to mention that we get most of that money straight back in the form of public grants…a lie by omission is still a lie.

            secondly what do you think employers have to gain when they can just fire an employee who complains rather than improving working conditions? more money.

            What do the bankers have to gain when their best clients are raking it in? more money further concentrated into fewer places.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            50 million, 50 billion, 50 quintillion.

            We don’t get “most” of that back, don’t kid yourself.

            What do you think employers gain from mass immigration? Cheap labour (more money)
            We can make our own laws.

            hahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha power in a few hands????? look at the 29 states in the EU!

          • a_no_n

            yeah the cheap labour argument would work if it weren’t illiegal to pay immigrants less than locals.

            the only person fooling themself is you…Immigrants aren’t the ones making employees pay less and less whilst giving themselves bigger bonuses, they’re doing that all by themselves. They’re just pointing at immigrants to get idiots like you to look the other way.

            If every immigrant in the country left tomorrow, nothing would change, because immigrants aren’t the problem. mismanagement at the highest levels are the problem.

            (and as they’re finding out, if they pay for a few thousand brightly coloured posters they can distract people like you, sending you off on your little witchunt)

            it must be nice to be so disconnected that you feel this is something to laugh about.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            The cheap labour argument does work, even if you make the clearly wrong assumption that fish and chip shops can afford to keep 5 staff on minimum wage all day. the great thing about immigrants is they bring their whole family over who work for free!

            Minimum wage has now become the standard wage.

            Take Denmark for example:

            Denmark are so stupid, what they’re doing is restricting immigration
            which allows their own unemployed to find work, and as the labour-force
            is limited businesses have to increase salaries to attract talent, and
            increase wages for unpleasant jobs to attract interest. This is very bad
            because big business are unable to exploit their employees. it is also
            bad because the tax-payers no-longer have to fund their benefits, and
            those same people are now PAYING into the system….. With all of this
            money now being paid into the system and with fewer people to look after
            the state might be able to reduce its deficit and/or reduce
            taxes………. which will then enable them to invest more in
            infrastructure and improve living standards, what idiots.

          • a_no_n

            so people employ immigrants because they bring their families to work…this is getting more and more mental the longer it goes on…do you have any proof for these claims?

            Or any explaination for how these supposed employers get around using slave labour, which i must say again is illiegal.

            This argument is nothing but apologetics for the people who actually control wages…i.e the employers.

            Employers decide what wage to set, not employees. You’re only passiung the buck onto people that have no involvement with the process whatsoever.

            MAte, you’ve barely got a clue what’s going on here, so i’m not going to take your assessment of Denmark seriously.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            I never said that. Go in your local fish and chip shop and you will see they have far too many staff, and couldn’t possibly afford to pay them the minimum wage. You will also find that labourers are paid very little.

            This is not slave labour, these people are happy to work for this money as it goes a lot further back home, unlike our people who wouldn’t be able to work for so little.

            I am not passing the buck, the employers won’t raise wages as there are plenty of immigrants who will work for very little.

            Great counter argument.

            I’m leaving this here as I feel by refusing to form a counter argument you are conceding.

          • a_no_n

            That’s exactly what you said…but backpedal all you want, i don’t mind.

            I’ll accept your argument, if you can explain to me how immigrants are more to blame for low wages, than the legislation that states if you pay your workers less you can avoid paying them benefits as well.

            even if the immigrants all went away tomorrow, that legislation would still be there, and your chip shop would still be staffed with five or six kids working three hour shifts because it would be cheaper to do that than to pay two of them a decent wage to work full time.

            this is why you are most certainly passing the buck.

            i don’t entirely blame you either. i can understand why, Immigrants are different, we’re naturally inclined to be wary of people who are different to us, that’s not racism that’s a byproduct of social evolution, and then along comes this awfully nice funny chap who drinks bitter just like you do, and he’s telling you that these foreigners are the source of all the countries problems…it’s so simple, a simple answer to a complicated issue, who doesn’t want that?

            the problem is the simple answers are rarely the right ones.

            considering your name, my use of the words “Mate” and “Mental” seem like a really really flimsy excuse to run away from this argument.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            Immigrants are not to blame for anything, but an over-supply of immigration does prevent wages from rising and provide our own people with a huge amount of competition. In less formally regulated industries such as building, high-street food shops (currey houses, fish and chip shops etc), restaurants (a restaurant near me has 12 staff, none of whom are English) employers are able to employ immigrants below minimum wage and DO.

            I’m not passing the buck at all. I am calling the system out. It’s true that English people would be doing the same thing in the chip shop I cited as an example, but these people aren’t spawned from a computer programme, they are still citizens as we speak.

            I haven’t particularly argued a very strong case here, but I find it quite pointless that you still don’t accept an over-supply of labour forces down wages.

            I see what you are doing toward the end of your comment. Something we call “the concern troll” – No, I’m not just an identikit liberal-lefty who automatically loathes anything a right-wing commentator writes. See how I’m displaying my open-mindedness here? See the gravitas I acquire by demonstrating my more-in-sorrow-than-anger lofty dispassion? Simply by stating that I understand where your confusion comes from, I’m showing you that my opinion on his total wrongness on climate change is double extra valid with cherries on top…

          • a_no_n

            Whilst at Oxford, was it explained to you that arguments from authority are logical fallacies, or did you have a hang over that day?

            As most MP’s prove every single day, a degree from Oxford does not make you infallible.

            All i’m trying to say is that MP’s are the ones who write the legislation that allows employers to do what they do, i don’t reject the argument that over supply of labour has an effect, but i disagree with the proportion of effect that you attribute to it.

            If you’re sick of my condescending comments, how do you think immigrants feel about your condescending comments?

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            I’ve never claimed such things, I was explaining I am not the pub-dweller you insinuate.

            What proportion of effect do you think the over-supply of immigration has? Are you denying that it drives down wages and provides a barrier to entry for our unemployed?

            I don’t much care how you feel, you engaged me in conversation, “buttonholed” if you will.

            I am a Libertarian, it is the simplest and most alleviating ideology we have. But you are very wrong about UKIP’s ideas on workers’ rights and Libertarian ideology on this matter. It is to the benefit of all concerned that employees have a strong code of rights.

            You keep saying “I think” “He’s telling lies” yet have no evidence for your claims.

            I am a proud supporter of democracy, you are wasting your time trying to use invalid claims and unfounded imputation. I know an EU funded snake oil salesman a mile off. I can smell you from here. Don’t reply to this comment, ignore my questions as you have done so thus far, I am bored of your sales-pitch.

          • a_no_n

            pub-dweller…those are your words not mine. i’ve never suggested anything like that, i made a throwaway comment about being hung over on one particular day so please put that strawman argument away (were you awake when they covered straw men arguments in Oxford)

            Libertarianism is anti-working class. It is a far right movement designed to funnel money upwards, Libertarians are big business supporters, they are against workers rights, they are against fair pay, they are against workers benefits, they are against just about everything that involves rich old white men having to give money to anyone poorer than they are.

            Libertarianism is a cancer in political form, the politics of parasites, it believes that individuals of means should be able to take take take, whilst giving nothing back, whilst the poor should be treated like tools rather than human beings.

            you say i’ve no evidence, yet i’ve given you detailed explainations for each one of the points i’ve made. Explainations that you have made absolutly no effort to address, and are now pretending aren’t there…

            You seem to think just repeating the last thing you said is enough, it isn’t.

            i’ll comment all i want…UKIP aren’t in yet, so freedom of speech is still a thing!

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            Yes you did make a “throw-away comment” about being “hung-over”. This was the comment I was referring to:
            ” that’s not racism that’s a byproduct of social evolution, and then
            along comes this awfully nice funny chap who drinks bitter just like you
            do, and he’s telling you that these foreigners are the source of all
            the countries problems…it’s so simple, a simple answer to a
            complicated issue, who doesn’t want that?”

            I just don’t want to get bogged down in the meaning of libertarianism. What you say is not true but a left-wing take on it. I have neither the time nor the inclination to bother addressing this, if you wanted to learn you would pick up a book, you are not interested in the truth, but only your left-wing version of the truth. Cutting immigration would allow low wages to grow, and allow our people to find jobs, without the EU our food prices and energy bills would be lower, these are all things that benefit the poorest in our society.

            Freedom of speech is a thing, a thing you hate.

            Why are you so against a referendum on EU membership? Why shouldn’t we, the people, have a say on our future?

          • a_no_n

            and there is the ultimate naivete in your thinking.

            Wages will not go up, because the legislation that allows employers to pay such low wages will still be in place. The loopholes will still all exist and as a result nothing would change.

            UKIP won’t do anything to bring up wages, they have no incentive to they are libertarians,

            As a libertarian you shouldn’t even want wages to go up. the only thing that should go upward is money. Libertarianism is the politics of personal greed. Where you only have the rights you can afford.
            Libertarianism makes Victorian values look progressive!

            Energy prices will go down? that’s interesting i’ve never heard that before. Why do you assume that? where does that claim come from?

          • a_no_n

            also i think it’s worth adding that i don’t actually believe UKIP are telling the truth. I don’t think they have any intention of serving the working class, i actually think they are a bigger threat to the working class than either of the other parties.
            they are Libertarians, and ‘ll tell you what libertarians do not believe in, workers rights or a living wage…that’s money that could be better put into profit margins as far as their ideology is concerned.

            I voted lib dem last time around, so i know what it’s like when some slick con artist feeds you a line he has no intention of pulling back. Farage chucks them out by the dozen.

            I wouldn’t buy a second hand car of of Farage, never mind a policy (should he ever think of one besides blame immigrants and the EU)

            Take it from someone whose been conned recently enough to still remember how it went down, you’re sat in exactly the same trap.

      • Hippograd

        I’m a utilitarian, Mr Rifkind. By treating black migrants harshly, Israel avoids the horrors perpetrated by blacks in such cities as London:

        A LEADING black organisation is to stage a demonstration outside Channel 4 headquarters tomorrow to coincide with the screening of a documentary that claims to have established that most juvenile gang rapes are carried out by black youths.

        The protest in central London has been called by the National
        Assembly Against Racism, which is accusing the programme of demonising young black men and feeding stereotypes that associate them with sexual violence. But the documentary, to be broadcast tomorrow night as part of Channel 4’s Dispatches series, was applauded by some black commentators for highlighting a disturbing phenomenon. They said it was time for a rational debate about an unpalatable subject.

        Note how cultural Marxists use the charge of “racism” when this issue is raised. Israel cares about its own citizens and their welfare. Cultural Marxists like you care about power and are quite happy to see gang rape flourish in London and other British cities. But let’s be even-handed: blacks aren’t the only ones behind this kind of vibrancy:

        Muslim Rape Gangs in the U.K.

        Something else that Israel doesn’t have to worry about, because it isn’t run by people who want to destroy it with mass immigration.

        • sarahsmith232

          Again, thanks for that, this ‘Dispatches’ would have passed me by, will be setting the record now. Well done, keep up the good work, v.interesting posts.

        • wudyermucuss

          By treating black migrants harshly –
          Insert the word “illegal”,and replace the word “harshly” with,say,fairly,and you would be quite correct.
          I wish Britain would detain,house,review and then expel our (1 million ?) illegal immigrants.

          • a_no_n

            lol you don’t even know, but you’ll still spout off as if you’re some sort of expert.

      • sarahsmith232

        When was the last time you were in Israel? Are you aware that they’re coming to dominate quite large sections of Tel Aviv?
        Are you a Zionist? If so then how is your response logical?
        I don’t agree with Zionism, I personally believe that history has proved it’s necessity incorrect. The Jews that emigrated to America have flourished, have become American but have not had to sacrifice a Jewish sense of self to do so. This isn’t the case in Israel.
        But if you believe that Jews can only face prejudice and persecution in a nation that is not a Jewish state then I don’t believe your response is logical.
        If you believe a Jewish state was and is necessary then what they’re doing (I must read the above post, I knew there was trouble fermenting, didn’t know about the above) is necessary, surely to say otherwise is illogical.

        • wudyermucuss

          I personally believe that history has proved it’s necessity incorrect. –
          Just because America treats/has treated Jews comparatively well,doesn’t mean that Jews,likes other groups,shouldn’t have their own country surely?

          • sarahsmith232

            But that’s not the basis that Zionism was founded on, it was justified and still is on the grounds that without a Jewish State Jews would be persecuted, killed, face prejudice etc. This has been proved incorrect.

          • Tom M

            Indeed when Herzl founded Zionism there was a very real threat to Jews. And as history recounts their fears were justified.
            A Jewish state would seem a reasonable thing to hope for under these circumstances.
            I would argue that the more I see of continuing anti-semitism in the world the more it confirms my belief that a Jewish state is necessary.

          • sarahsmith232

            But America is the proof that that wasn’t the case. Ditto this country. It wasn’t necessary to create a new country. They could have migrated to America in the 19th century to escape European prejudice, history has proved that Liberalism in a democracy, an actual democracy not Israel’s laughable title as one, means they can thrive. They’re not living in a democracy and they’re also not thriving (have you ever been? It’s a 3rd world country, that’s before you go anywhere near their colonialism.)
            The only thing history proved was that European anti-Semitism would eventually become as brutal as it did. But escaping it to be able to thrive, history has proved, didn’t depend on the creation on a Jewish State.

          • Tom M

            Sarah, today perhaps you can quote America as being an example of a country the Jews could have fourished in but not in the 19th century you couldn’t. You only need to go back some 25 years and take note of how America treated the black population. If you were a Jew at that time you would have seen predjudice against a minority on a grand scale. Thankfully it is going in the right direction now but to conclude that was possible in the 19th century might have been a gamble.
            As to whether it was necessary to create a new country well, as you say, it wasn’t but that was, for them, the safest route to take was it not?
            And looking at the stated aims of their near neighbours they could be forgiven for thinking that in some parts of the world people still had an extreme view as to their right to exist.

        • Shorne

          Israel is home to 100,0000 Falashas , black Ethiopian Jews who were airlifted in by the Israeli government in 2011
          Some headlines
          ‘After Decades Of Discrimination, Israel’s Ethiopian Jews Say Enough Is Enough’
          ‘Israel: promised land for Jews … as long as they’re not black?’

          I strongly support the state of Israel but nobody’s perfect.

          • sarahsmith232

            Was aware of this already. They wear the cap (don’t know it’s name) to make sure they’re recognised as Jews. Knew that there was a state directed act to secretly force them onto the pill as well. Pretty shocking, quite unbelievable, not big news here though.

      • wudyermucuss

        You missed out the word “illegal”.
        Between “African” and “migrants”.

        • Doggie Roussel

          And you are a sniveling equivocator who defends a fascist Israeli state who will oppress anyone from the Palestinians, whose land they stole, to the wretched African (illegal) immigrants whom they treat so disgustingly…

          The Zionists might care to read up on recent history where the oppressive treatment of minorities is not confined to the patent to which the Jews lay claim:

          Stalin (20 million and counting), Pol Pot, Mao, Rwanda… to name but a few.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            There has never been a Palestinian people.

          • a_no_n

            Thank you for that bleak look further into the demented attitudes of UKIP.

            I see your ideology stops firmly at your front door.

            a downtrodden nation of working class people standing up to a larger foreign imperialistic aggressor…I thought you would have shared a sense of common cause with the Palestinian people…but then i remembered that you’re a UKIP supporter and thus a massive hypocrite.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            I’m stating a fact, a concept that you liblabcon voters don’t understand. I’ve spent many a summer in united Jerusalem. If I was against the Jews you’d accuse me of being anti-Semitic.

            There has never been a Palestinian people, if those Arabs want to express themselves nationally they can express themselves in one of the other states, maybe Jordan, which is primarily originally “Palestinian” in any case. Why should it be at the expense of the Jewish home-land? My argument is only hypocritical to a Hamas supporter.

            Please explain who the Palestinians are.

          • a_no_n

            Before you continue making yourself look like an uneducated moron i suggest you google “the Ottoman empire”. that will probably answer all of your questions.

            Israel didn’t exist until after we broke up the Ottoman empire in WW1 and redrew those borders.
            that part of the Levant has just as much historical claim to be Muslim as it does Jewish.

            your understanding of the history of the Levant would be laughable if it weren’t so frighteningly ignorant.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            I suggest you look up “Ottomans”.

            The Arabs’ plight is entirely self-inflicted. Do you realise the Arabs want every single Jew dead? And won’t rest until they achieve that? They don’t want piece they want genocide, and won’t be happy until Israel is wiped off the face of the earth.


            This situation exists because 50 years a go the Arabs attacked Israel, unprovoked. The Jews are treated like crap across the world, even in ww2 were denied entry to ally countries. Even Jerusalem was on Hitler’s side. Israel is surrounded by enemies, peace is more in their interest than anyone else’s. You have been indoctrinated by the same PC brigade who tell you that despite all the problems Islam causes throughout the world it should be welcomed. Why do you think Israel keep making concessions?

            You share company with people who want to gas Jews.

          • a_no_n

            hm i see…so rather than go and look up what actually happened as i suggested you’re going to pretend that Israel has always existed as a Jewish state, dispite spending most of the last 2000 yeas as anything but that.

            The Jews have always taken crap because like immigrants they tend to be an easy target for far right hate groups like the one you belong to.

            Really…every single Arab thinks that? It must have taken you ages going around asking them all, there’s millions of them.

            You do realize that people are all individuals right?
            By your logic, you and i think exactly the same thing because we’re both British…the fact that we’re having this argument proves that your ‘hive mind’ logic is wrong

            another equivilent of your childish assumptions would be to say that the the entire west is united under the opinions of the Westboro Baptist church…it’s a nonsence…as most of your other opinions seem to be

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            You are a hypocrite, you question my stance on immigration as though it’s not my country. Yet feel free to be a bleeding heart for the Arabs.

            What exactly are the Zionists doing that’s so bad? They are defending their land which they have paid for, in both blood and money. The Arabs vote in their Parliament and the Jews vote in theirs.

            The Jews want peace. I have given you a link to an ‘Arab leader” not just one Arab but a representative. You have clearly never been to united Jerusalem, to know so little.

            I am done with your Hamas propaganda, you are against my freedom and Israel’s. Perhaps you should stop telling people what to think and start respecting our right to our opinions.

          • a_no_n

            actually it’s land that WE took from the Ottomans, (remember then, the arab empire that ruled over the entire area for over five hundred years) modern Israel had practically nothing to do with it’s own founding.

            I realise you’re intent on denying every part of history that doesn’t fit into your personal narrative but i’m afraid it doesn’t really work like that.

            Also you seem to forget that the Arabs paid for that land themselves when they took it from the Crusaders and the Romans, why does their blood and sacrifice not count for anything?

            I’m not giving you hamas propaganda, I personally believe both states have a right to exist.

            opinions are like assh0les, everyones got them and most of them stink.

            jesus, calm down will you? I’m merely suggesting that arabs have a right to live…how is that Hamas propaganda?

            I love the way that you tell me i should stop telling people what to think and let people have their opinions in the scentence directly after the one you tell me what to think and that my opinions are invalid.

            and you’ve the nerve to call me a hypocrite, it’s like you’re not even reading your own comments from one sentence to the next.

            i may not have been to Jerusalem, but unlike you i’ve been to more than one source of information when i’ve been learning about it.

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            I think you’ll find that whoever “we” includes have destroyed a lot of civilisations. I am glad you have done the research I suggested and realised they were “Arabs” not Palestinians. So where does your selective narrative grant people land? Clearly you don’t accept land people have bought or fought for, as is the case with Israel. What right had the Ottomans to that land? Does time grant them more right over land? it’s a shame you don’t apply the same principle to England, my land, which you argue belongs to everyone. Does the Jews payment in blood and money count for nothing?

            You are a Hamas supporter, that much is evident.

            The Arabs do have a right to live, and I’m glad you have stopped referring to them as “Palestinians”. They are welcome to express themselves nationally they can express themselves in one of the
            other states, maybe Jordan, which is primarily originally “Palestinian”
            in any case. As said above. The Jews want peace not war.

            Your opinions challenge the fabric of a nation, mine seek peace. Your opinions are ill-informed.

            it’s clear you have never been to United Jerusalem.

          • a_no_n

            wow…ten out of ten for mental gymnastics there, your twists of logic are almost masterful in their ability to dance around the point.

            You’re still ignoring just about everything i say,

            “Does Time Grant more right over land”
            Dunno, you’re the one that’s arguing Israel’s existence based on biblical definitions, perhaps don’t undermine your own argument when trying to score points on me?

            Please don’t cherrypick my comments and come to your own conclusions, it’s incredibly disingenuous. rather than trying to make up a conclusion out of parts of what i’ve said, try looking at my comments as a whole.

            Why are you so desperate to try and attach some sort of label to me.
            can i not just be a regular person whose come to a different conclusion to you? Is that not possible? Why must i be a Hamas supporter?

            you’re problem is that you live in a black and white world, you think there are only two sides to an issue. the idea that there might be anything in between hasn’t even crossed your mind.

            You accuse me of being a Hamas supporter, yet i’ve said more than once that i accept Israel has a right to exist…Meanwhile you’re trying to claim that palestinians don’t even exist. Can you not see that you’re doing exactly what you accuse me of doing?

            are you able to be self aware?

          • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

            That was a question, does time grant right? Why do the Zionists not have a right now in your view? It’s their land.

            I live in a black and white world? I’ve been there about 20 times over the last decade, you’re the one who forms an opinion on news stories.

            If you’re in the middle of the road you’ll get run over from both sides. You were unable to explain who the Palestinians are.

          • a_no_n

            What do you mean i’m unable to explain who the palestinians are…remember the whole Ottoman Empire comment that you danced around earlier?

            What do you do when you go to Jerusalem? Why are you there?

            It’s another strange double standard..Why do you have to keep constantly going over to Jerusalem and involve yourself in their politics in the same way you’re trying to stop foreigners involving themselves in British politics?

            all i’m seeing from you is double standards heaped up on double standards.

          • a_no_n

            are you an evangelical Christian?

      • Pip

        I doubt after the trash you have just written that few people here now have any regard for what you think Hugo.

      • Adliya Plaza

        Funny how you don’t write articles about it then.

    • sarahsmith232

      Brilliant post. I must read your link, thanks for that.

    • Randy McDonald

      “Imagine the shrieks of horror from Mr Rifkind and his fellow conservatives if UKIP proposed such a thing.”

      Well, yes.

      Isn’t it imaginable that some people might well also oppose the Israeli deportation of Africans as racist? There’s not even any gap in consistency.

  • Denis_Cooper

    At bottom this isn’t about “racism”.

    At bottom it isn’t even about immigration.

    At bottom it’s about a cartel of three old parties all of which have sold out to the EU project and are absolutely determined to keep us in the EU project at all costs, and one new party on the rise which is absolutely committed to getting us out of the EU project and which the cartel has long been trying to nip in the bud.

    Surely this son of the Europhile Tory Malcolm Rifkind knows that?

    • cambridgeelephant

      Little Hugo. Daddies boy alright. But with his own ‘right-on’ street cred.

      Or so he imagines.

    • Ben

      spot on

    • rob232


    • chrisdbarnett

      No. Circles within circles. The elite have every eventually covered. In or out of Europe, you’re only deciding which way you’re doomed.

      Same with the Scottish referendum. Once the referendum has been decided, Westminster and Brussels will destroy Scotland as they have England, though in different ways depending on the outcome of the referendum vote.

      The beauty of it all, is that through the referendum, Scotland will be divided and the Scottish will blame each other for their demise, rather than the elite who “only” gave them a “say” in their future.

  • saffrin

    I’m still trying to fathom the mainstream media’s defence of Lenny Henry’s racist remark when he complained about there not being enough minorities on TV.
    Try turning the telly on Lenny, it’s swarming with them.

    • Liz

      Swarm isn’t the collective noun for ethnic minority.

      • rob232

        It’s a question of literary style.

    • SgtVimes

      I’m still trying to fathom how you think that Lenny Henry’s comment was racist.

      • Pip

        Well that’s an issue for your own intellect to cope with, not ours.

        • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

          I am sick and tired of Lenny Henry complaining about this, the irony is the only reason he is famous is because he’s black, he’s about as funny as cancer. Why should black people only be on TV because they’re black? Why not on the back of their own talent?

      • saffrin

        You must be a bigoted nazi then.

    • Pip

      When you are racist towards a white person its not racist, didn’t you know?

  • Liz

    “If Ukip aren’t racist, how come so many racists seem to like them?”

    A question I’d just like to put out there re. The Spectator.

    • James

      That would certainly explain why you’re always on here.

      • Liz

        No, I’m here for the sexists who, by coincidence, seem to like The Spectator too.

    • wudyermucuss

      Objecting to mass immigration isn’t racism,although many of the mass immigrants do themselves hold very extreme racist (amongst other things) views.

      What is your definition of racist by the way?

      A question I’d just like to put out there re. yourself.

  • DaHitman

    There’s loads of racists in the Lib-Lab-Con who despise the native population and throw the race card around like confetti. If the naive continue to vote for them it wont be long before people get called racist for using black pens, its pathetic

  • Stompy

    I hate racism but I want politicians to be more accountable to the electorate. Regarding the EU I do not believe that is possible because they are too detached from their citizens. In my view the UK is better off withdrawing. That is the main reason UKIP was founded and that is why I support them.
    But you are right that many racists that used to support BNP are now supporting UKIP. It doesn’t mean advocating UK withdrawal from the EU is racist though, it is a political position. Of course, if Conservatives had adopted this position UKIP would never have existed.
    The other problem is people like me don’t trust David Cameron to deliver a referendum on the EU because he has dodged this issue in the past. It is a quandary…

  • Ben

    Members of Parliament convicted of sex offenses

    The following has been researched and written by Teresa Cooper, I would like to thank her for allowing me to share this information, please take the time to visit Teresa Coper is the Author of Trust No One/Pin Down.

    Convicted MPs – at a glance

    Labour Councillor (Northampton/Northamptonshire), and former School Governor, Alec Dyer-Atkins – Convicted and jailed for 2 years in 2003 for downloading more than 42,000 pictures and films described in court as “Horrifying images of child abuse”. Dyer-Atkins was a member of an international paedophile ring called `The Shadows Brotherhood` which was successfully penetrated following sterling work by Britain’s National Hi-Tech Crime Unit (NHTCU). Commenting on the conviction of the depraved Labour Party beast, NHTCU Deputy Head, Mick Deats said: “This man had some of the worst images on his computers that officers from this unit have ever viewed”.

    Tory Party General election candidate, Michael Powell – Convicted and jailed for 3 years for downloading hardcore child porn.

    . Tory Party Councillor (Wickbar/Bristol) Roger Talboys – Convicted and jailed for 6 years for multiple sex attacks on children.

    . Tory Party Vice-Chairman of Welsh Conservatives, Andrew Baker – Received a banning order for stalking women.

    . Tory Party MP (Billericay) Harvey Proctor – Stood trial for sex offences of a sado-masochistic nature against teenage boys, and was forced to resign.

    . Tory Party Councillor ( Stratford-upon-Avon ) Christopher Pilkington – Convicted of downloading hardcore child porn on his PC. Placed on sex offenders register and forced to resign.

    . Tory Party councillor ( Coventry ), Peter Stidworthy – Charged with indecent assault of a 15-year old boy.

    . Tory Party Mayor ( North Tyneside ), Chris Morgan – Forced to resign after being arrested twice in 2 weeks, for indecent assault on a 15-year old girl, and for suspicion of downloading child porn.

    . Tory Party MEP, Tom Spencer – Caught smuggling drugs and porn through customs.

    . Tory Party councillor and former Mayor (Wrexham), Michael Morris – Convicted and put on probation for 2 years, for the indecent assault of another man, which was captured on CCTV.

    . Tory Party Liaison Manager on the London Assembly, Douglas Campbell, who’s job includes running the Tory GLA website – Arrested for allegedly downloading child porn. He is currently suspended while the Police investigation continues.

    . Labour Councillor (Newton Aycliffe) Martin Locklyn – Convicted and jailed for 15 years for sexually abusing 3 14-year-old boys.

    . Labour Councillor (North Lincolnshire) David Spooner – Convicted and jailed for 1 year for masturbating in front of 2 young boys.

    . Labour Mayor (Westhoughton/Lancashire) Nicholas Green – Convicted and jailed for 10 years for 3 rapes and 13 counts of indecent assault against little girls between the age of 6 and 10. He raped one woman on her wedding day.

    . Labour Mayor (Todmordon) John Winstanley – Convicted and jailed for rape and threats to kill. After raping and threatening to kill his terrified victim, Winstanley then ordered the woman to go on all fours before urinating on her.

    . Prominent Labour Party activist Mark Tann (who has met Tony & Cherie at Party functions) recently got a 15-year sentence for raping a 4-year old girl on 2 separate occasions.

    . Labour’s current Parliamentary Candidate (Reading East) Tony Page – Has 2 Convictions for Acts of Gross Indecency` in public toilets.

    . Labour Mayor (Burnley) Mark Swainston – Convicted of sex offences in public toilet.

    . Entire Labour Party conspired to conceal the activities of Labour Party activist and serial child-molester Mark Trotter, who died from AIDS before he could be convicted.

    . Labour Councillor (North Yorkshire) Raymond Coats – Court appearance for indecently assaulting a woman.

    . Labour MP (Rhonda Valley) Chris Bryant poses in his pants on the Internet to advertise himself for casual gay sex encounters. Describes himself as “Horny as bu**ery” and says, “I’d love a good long f**k”.

    . Labour Councillor (Manchester), George Harding – Charged with indecent assault on a girl of 12.

    . Labour MP Ron Davies was mugged by a Rasta on Clapham Common while cruising for gay sex. He was photographed again by the media recently, engaged in some `man-on-man` action in a field off a motorway. “I was only looking for badgers” he said.

    . Labour Councillor (Durham), Derrick Payne – Arrested by Police following a sex attack.

    . Labour MP, Joe Ashton – Caught up in a Police raid while frequenting a brothel. Tried to lie his way out of the scandal.

    . Labour Councillor (Shropshire), Derek Woodvine – Arrested by Police in anti-porn operation.

    . Labour Councillor (Basildon), Tony Wright – Forced to resign after being caught using his council computer to download porn.

    . Labour MP (Sheffield), Clive Betts – Suspended from Parliament for 7 days after being caught forging immigration papers to extend the stay of his Brazilian rent-boy gay lover.

* Senior clerk Phillip Lyon, who arranges the weekly Prime Minister’s Question Time for Tony Blair, was arrested after vice cops raided his Commons office.Lyon, 37, is accused of making indecent images of children.
* The Labour Party in Calderdale has been plunged into a crisis as their lead candidate, and former Mayor of Hebden Royd, Stewart Brown, has been arrested on suspicion of child porn offences.

    Labour Councillor and Deputy Council Leader (Northumberland), John Whiteman, who was also a senior member of the local police authority – Convicted and fined in 2002 for soliciting a prostitute in the red light district of Middlesbrough. The court heard Whitman was arrested in his car as Police discovered him in a “state of undress” with a lady of the night he had just paid £35 for sex. He subsequently resigned from the council.

Labour Councillor (Stoke/Staffordshire), Michael Barnes, put forward a motion in July 2004 to change the constitution of Stoke-on-Trent Council. The proposed amendments were designed to prevent the City’s two British National Party councillors from chairing any committees, so as to `protect` the good citizens of Stoke from the beastly BNP types they’d voted for in huge numbers to represent them. As Mr Barnes explained to the local paper, the move was “to prevent the BNP from exerting more influence”, and was “in the best interests of the people of Stoke-on-Trent”. A few months later, in November 2004, the civic-minded and virtuous Councillor Barnes appeared at North Staffordshire Magistrates Court, to face seven different charges relating to child pornography

    Labour Councillor (Durham), Derrick Payne – Arrested by Police following a sex attack

    Labour Councillor and former Mayor (Halton/Cheshire), Liam Temple – Convicted in 2004 of `Inciting a child under 16 to commit an act of gross indecency` after the 58-year old Labour pervert had attempted to molest a 12-year old girl. During the case, the brave youngster told the court via a video link: “He said if I let him touch me he would give me money”.

    Labour Councillor (Coxhoe/Durham), Les Sheppard – Convicted in 2004 on ten counts of indecent assault on young girls. Jailed for 2 years, and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years. Teeside Crown Court heard how 71 year old Cllr Sheppard lured his victims into his gold Porsche before driving them to remote spots, where he would submit them to sickening sex attacks. After his arrest, the Labour nonce-case told police “I love women, but you do things which you regret”. Sheppard’s `women` victims were between 9 and 13 years old.

    According to media reports, the names of 2 former Labour Cabinet Ministers said to be `Household names` appear on the `Operation Ore` list of subscribers to hard-core child pornography. The same FBI investigation, which led to the arrest of rock star Pete Townshend. So who are they Mr. Blair?

    Yusef Azad – One of Ken Livingston’s overpaid left-wing cronies on the London Assembly gravy train – Resigned from his 60K-plus a year job `assisting` Assembly members, after being arrested on suspicion of downloading child porn in 2003.

Labour Councillor (Wokingham/Berkshire), Nelson Bland – Convicted on 16 counts of possession and distribution of hardcore child porn in 2004. Sentenced to community service, placed on the sex offender’s register and ordered to attend rehabilitation classes for paedophiles. Bland used his own teenage daughters computer to hoard his grotesque gallery of child abuse, which was discovered by police during a search of Bland`s home, when they arrested him in connection with the murder of a Nottingham businessman

    Labour Councillor and Mayor-Elect (Merton/London), Sam Chaudry – Due to become Merton’s first Asian Mayor, before he was arrested, tried and convicted of multiple sex attacks on young girls in 1999. One of his victims was a 5-year old.

    Labour Councillor (Halton/Leeds), Lee Benson – Convicted and awaiting sentence in 2005, after pleading guilty on 12 counts of possession of indecent images of children, featuring youngsters between the ages of 5 and 11. Benson, who has a child of his own, repaid the fools who voted for him by storing his revolting kiddie porn collection on the computer provided for him by the council. Benson has been `suspended` – not expelled – by the Labour Party, which means his name remains on the Labour Party membership list, as well as on the sex offenders register. As to which is the more shameful – take your pick!

    Labour Councillor (Bridgend/South Wales), Iestyn Tudor Davies – Convicted, jailed for 7 years, and placed on the sex offender’s register for life in 2005, for repeatedly raping a 9-year old girl

Labour Councillor (Newham/London), Greg Vincent, who was the Election Agent to Labour MP Tony Banks at the 2001 General Election – Convicted and given a 2-year community rehabilitation order in 2003, for possession of hardcore kiddie porn films and photos, featuring children as young as 8. One of the photos the Labour Councillor found so entertaining, featured – as described in court – a girl aged around 10, naked except for a dog-collar, being assaulted and abused while her hands were tied behind her back around a beam. Vincent was also a School Governor

    Prominent Edinburgh Labour party activist and election candidate, Rab Knox – Convicted and jailed for 3 years in 2005 for a horrific sex attack on a woman passenger in his taxi cab.

    Labour Party Official (North West England Regional Officer, and parliamentary adviser to the Home Office Minister responsible for crime and policing, Hazel Blears), Peter Tuffley – Convicted and jailed for 15 months and placed on the sex offenders register for 10 years in 2006, for the sexual molestation of a 13-year old boy that he had previously `groomed` on the internet. Tuffley was described as a `rising star` within the Labour Party – which is nothing to be proud of either

Labour Councillor (Hornchurch/Essex), Alan Prescott, who was also a senior magistrate – Convicted and jailed for 2 years in 2001, for molesting children at the East London care home where he was the superintendent. Prescott, described in court as a “pillar of his local community” admitted carrying out sex attacks on four teenage boys as they slept in their beds

Labour Parliamentary candidate (Cheadle/Cheshire), Paul Diggert – Subject of a 2002 police investigation into the alleged procurement of underage girls for sexual purposes via internet chatrooms. According to the `Sunday Mirror` (3/11/02), Diggert had admitted to having four underage girls that he was `grooming` for sex. In 2004 Diggert was convicted of making and distributing indecent pictures of children

Labour Councillor (Dagenham/London), Terry Power – Forced to resign in 1999 after being arrested and charged with sex attacks on teenage boys. Details of trial and conviction to follow.

    Labour Councillor (Westlands/Worcestershire), Keith Rogers – Convicted, fined, and placed on the sex offender’s register in 2003, after downloading over 2,000 hardcore child porn photos on his computer

    Labour councillor Ex-Paston councillor Gilbert Benn (48) A former city councillor was a five-year jail sentence for molesting an 11-year-old boy and threatening the youngster’s mother in a bid to cover his tracks.

    A FORMER Wirral Tory councillor led a secret life looking at indecent images of children. While his wife and two daughters slept upstairs, Ian McKellar spent hours poring over child porn downloaded from the internet onto his computer. Ex-Tory councillor was sentenced after admitting child porn charges

    Former Children’s Minister and prior to that, chair of the Campaign For Civil Liberties Harriet Harmann while in CCL, collaborated with the Pedophile Information Exchange and another pedophile activist groups in a campaign to decriminalise/legalise child pornography.

    • Ben

      The above came from the following weblink:

      Whether every case is a fact I can’t say….I know no more than anyone else who has read it for the first time just now.

      I found it as I was looking for a complete list of Labour councillors who defected from the BNP…..I think the figure is around 30. As I was going through it I stumbled across the above.

      Judge for your selves……Or just research each one on google…..I’m sure you will work out the fact from fiction.

    • Stompy

      Sterling work Ben.
      Seems like a case of people in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.

  • Ben

    From the Guardian:
    Former Labour, Tory and Lib Dem members on BNP list
    • ‘Nine ex-Conservatives’ on leaked files
    • Merseyside police officer suspended from duty


    From the Telegraph:

    Will Straw, son of Jack Straw, gets support from ex-BNP member for his bid to be an MP
    Will Straw, the son of a former Labour Home Secretary who is bidding to become an MP, has received the official backing of an ex-BNP organiser.


    From the Star:
    Mayor candidate admits party ex-BNP members – The Star…/mayor-candidate-admits-party-ex-bnp-members-1-…‎
    13 Mar 2013 – Mayor candidate admits party ex-BNP members … be decided on second preference votes and it is on these we have a clear lead over Labour.

    From Labour list:

    Yvette Cooper attacks “hatred and racism” of EDL and BNP … › News‎

    31 May 2013 – “It is only the BNP and the EDL, with their ignorance and hatred, who want … Former BNP GLA member Richard Barnbrook was a Labour Party …

    From the croydonadvertiser:

    Former Croydon Conservative councillor standing as ……Conservative-councillor…/story…/story….‎

    18 Apr 2012 – A FORMER Tory councillor, who left the party after a bust up with local members, … Mr Cakebread is standing for the English Democrats as a list …. EDs used to be centre right but now are full of ex-BNP members and have …


    Shall I go on?

  • Ben


    Tory / Labour / Liberal Democrat ex BNP members…….

    For a bit of perspective

  • Ben

    This is pure propaganda. Every time I post a name or list of ex BNP who are connected to Lib/Lab/Con you delete……….,

    Can dish it but can’t take the truth eh….?

    This is a comic book rather than a serious piece of journalism….

    You aren’t fooling anyone. You are just preaching to your own…..You have lost the argument and are loosing the battle…….

    We will have our democracy back

  • cartimandua

    Well we know the main parties have media in their pockets which makes media anti Democratic.

  • Rtd Colonel

    Boring, drip, drip, drip .. but according to Polling not working yet – ‘racist’ losing it’s shock value and fear factor through overuse and abuse – Gordon Brown’s only good act was to expose the dishonest thinking in his response to Ms Duffy.

    • wudyermucuss

      Yes indeed,waaaaaaycist is beginning to lose its effect.
      Bigot didn’t really catch on.
      Xenophobic is too long.

  • cartimandua

    I don’t think any party at all has addressed the problem of the size of this land mass and its carrying capacity.
    We already have twice the population of Canada. It all depends on oil being cheap enough not to put up food prices too much.
    The greens never spoke of it and no mainstream party ever has. They just put more money on the credit cards to pay for it as it were.
    The OPT (now population matters) and Attenborough were dismissed as cranks.
    It takes the biscuit for the author of this piece to sneakily claim that someone has “worried about total population number”. They just have not done so so to claim that is rational and Ukip is bonkers and of course racist goes well beyond dishonest.

  • pobinr

    Racists & xenophobes are people that are sick & tired of;
    1] Cheap imported labour that drives wages down & take jobs from locals
    2] Classes full of kids that need special lessons in speaking basic English
    3] Being told it’s just Daily Mail fiction when I see it with my own eyes
    4] Higher house prices & rents due to increased demand
    5] More crowded surgeries & longer NHS queues
    6] Worst housing shortage since WWII
    7] More & more houses on greenbelt
    8] More & more road congestion
    9] Child grooming gangs
    10] People traffickers
    11] FGM
    I guess that makes me a racist xenophobe then!

    • SgtVimes

      If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck……………
      UKIP has candidates, members and donors with abhorrent views but only does anything about them when forced to by the press.

      • JSmith

        The press are being lopsided about this, they should at the same time dig around the social media history of the liblabcon – that way we’d have some balance and we’d take them a bit more seriously.

        • Pip

          If they did that many of them might be arrested, so don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

      • wudyermucuss

        You could substitute UKIP for any other group in your post…..and abhorrent is,of course,a subjective word.
        Mass immigration is,for instance,abhorrent to many.
        Why is the press not “forcing” its reversal?

        • SgtVimes

          Denying marital rape is pretty abhorrent whichever party you vote for.

          • Gwangi

            I think you’ll find the vast majority of British Muslims would deny such a thing could possibly exist. But then many of them do believe in forcing 13 year old girls to marry their 50 year old cousins back in Pakistan…

      • Doggie Roussel

        Yes, UKip has to correct the MSM distortions and the fact there are now so many slanders aimed at UKip, instigated by the tarnished, polluted and increasingly frenzied establishment LibLabCon is a truly significant indication that these three parties are running scared.

        Once we are rid of Scotland, the EU and the LibDems, there is a very rosy future for England.

      • Gwangi

        One could use the same argument to show that a great many British Muslims are fascists. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

      • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

        So you think Farage can find these people quicker than the might of the desperate British MSM. Farage is pretty good, but not that good.

  • JSmith

    Public service announcement for internet era:

    If you find yourself losing the Debate
    Shout RACIST
    And you silence the opposition
    Which ends the argument

    Allowing you to claim VICTORY!!!!!!!!

  • Doggie Roussel

    The establishment is scared witless and is clutching at straws in throwing all these scatter gun and puerile insults every time the U word is mentioned.

    While Rome burns, Cameron, whose education included belonging to Oxford’s notorious Bullingdon Club, whose idea of a good night’s entertainment was to dress up as Regency dandies and destroy upmarket restaurants. He was assisted in these debauched excesses by his Chancellor, Osbourne and the blustering and ambitious Boris Johnson

    Finding himself in power, Cameron has obsessed about gay marriage, green issues and any other frivolous diversions and fripperies to steer away from the real issues: our subservience to Brussels and ever deeper entanglement in the web of the latter’s greed and corruption.

    28 million Eastern Europeans were recently enfranchised by Brussels and are free to dump themselves on our ailing NHS and a host of other social benefits.

    UKIP merely highlights the fact that we are exposed to these dangers at the whim of people like Baroso, Van Rompuoy and our very own Baroness Ashton; all unelected bureaucrats on the EU gravy train.

    When the sterile arguments on behalf of EU policies fall on deaf ears there is always the outraged screech of last resort… racism !

  • M2

    This is really getting childish. If the Tories aren’t homophobic, how come so many homophobes seem to like them? If the Libdems are not sex pests., how come so many sex pests seems to like them? I can go on and on…

    This childishness comes from the Europhiles’ inability to talk about immigration. So whenever someone else talks about it in a way the chimes with the public, you shout “racism” to silence them. It shows your weakness more than anything else.

    • sarahsmith232

      Spot on, could say ‘if the Labour party are not pro paedophilia then why did they spend the whole of the 70s defending them? Resulting in every Islington care home becoming riddled with them. If Labour is not a party that still represents the interests of paedophiles then why did they spend 13yrs doing everything in their power to cover up the evidence of predatory Asian grooming gangs. When one of their MP’s Anne Cryer tried to get something done they destroyed her.
      Labour has spent decades being only too happy to represent the interests of the paedophile if they are a type of paedophile that ticks their ‘oppressed by the ignorant majority minority group’. The idea that the Lenny Henry tweet was of a whole other magnitude of sickness is ridiculous.

  • SgtVimes

    When Nick Griffin says that UKIP are stealing his rhetoric and posters Nigel should be worried. Whether he personally has racist beliefs or not, he can’t keep brushing off these racist candidates by suggesting its “one bad apple” when it appears to be most of the barrel. Also he can’t keep separating himself from racist donors by saying “I’m not the party treasurer”.
    He is the leader and needs to get a grip on the party if he is serious about moving forward. I suspect his reluctance to stand for a Westminster seat means he is not.

    • wudyermucuss

      Do you think the implantation of millions of people on a country,then being told you must celebrate this,then being labelled with an increasingly meaningless/misused label should you object at all worrying?
      I’d find it abhorrent if you didn’t but I would accept your view.
      I certainly wouldn’t label you as,say,totalitarian,or bigot(a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people’s ideas),although,to be honest,the latter is certainly accurate.

      • SgtVimes

        I think you are missing my point. I did not address his policies but how he is portraying them, how the party is picking its candidates and who it accepts money from.
        If UKIP wants to move beyond being the protest vote of choice and become a serious party, these problems will need to be addressed. Party scandals have an impact on its leader as they are expected to have control of the party and to set its direction. At the moment UKIP seems to be an open house with Farage wanting no part in controlling its behaviour or vetting its donors. Very soon the mud will start to stick.

        • saffrin

          Labour have more MP’s imprisoned than any other, have more criminals as members than any other, they are the only true racists party in Britain yet you brand UKIP as racist simply because they UKIP doesn’t discriminate one race from another.

    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      Look at all of the other parties, you’re confusing reality with media induced reality. The whole might British media has found 4 idiots in 1000 people, they have been working tirelessly and this is all they’ve come up with.

  • Terry Field

    Racism is the product of stupidity and lack of intelligent effort to connect. SOME people in UKIP have these characteristics. But the real appeal of UKIP is highly sophisticated in its nature and requirements; it concerns the idea of the citizen, the value or otherwise of the State, the power of representative democracy. It is about ideas.
    The cheap asociation with racism and other base instincts is mischievous, and is applied in order to obscure the powerful attractions we are all aware of, and which we should consider seriously.
    I am not a convinced UKIPer but I am more than disturbed by the statist anti-democrats who have an aversion to thinking free individuals, and love compliance to composite tribal rules.
    For me, Gordon Brown then comes to mind. As does Blair. I wonder why.

  • wudyermucuss

    “Racist!” is the new “Heretic!”.

    • Gwangi

      Or the new ‘Burn the Witch!’

      • Doggie Roussel

        Yes, burn them at the stake… the whole thing has gone full circle… it was only 400 years ago that people were burnt for heresy by Bloody Mary and her Catholic fiends… then came Elizabeth I who took great delight in hanging and disemboweling Jesuits… of the two… a much more justified pursuit…

  • Chingford Man

    I’m afraid this bashing may eventually bring diminishing returns … for UKIP.

    • Pip

      The more they fear the more they smear and it will only serve to increase the support for UKIP.

  • Should I clear my cache to remove the subscription advert in order to read this, or can I assume it’s more of the same…Decisions, decisions.

    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      do you know the name of the specific cookie, I know the telegraph’s is tmd-session

  • Gwangi

    It all depends what you mean by racist.

    Most Muslims vote Labour or Liberal – and their views on Jews tend to be racist. The views of most south Asians on blacks is utterly racist too.

    Black people tend to vote Labour; some are racist against whites and many hate Asians. The of course the Christians want to kill all gays.

    Frankly, people hold unpleasant views however they vote – it’s just that the bien pensants of the metropolitan media and political socalled liberal elites want to portray UKIP as that, so only bother to investigate its members and donors and not those members of the Labour and Liberal parties whose views are essentially fascistic (but that’s OK coz they’ve got a brown skin and a minority religion).

    According to these hypocrites, the entire French socialist party is racist and right wing too, because they are happy to ban the burka and the headscarf from schools and colleges (and a good thing to).

  • edithgrove

    You might just as well ask why does the Spectator do nepotism. Actually why do they?

    • Pip

      Follow the money.

  • lojolondon

    If Hugo Rifkind is not stupid, how come so many stupid people read Hugo?

    • Pip

      He has the right to write what he thinks even if its not genuine and his readers have the right to comment on such. Your assertion that people who read the opinions of those they don’t agree with are stupid is stupid in itself, its called democracy and debate.

  • lojolondon

    Also, as the LibDem party contains many sexual deviants, does it mean anyone who votes LibDem is a sexual deviant?

  • Hugo Rifkind

    Okay, look. There’s far too much bile on here to reply to all of it. But honestly? It’s like most of you haven’t read the column AT ALL.

    First, I say explicitly that some people want cry “racist” with little justification. I say that. Paragraph four. Yes?

    Second, the whole thing is about why the term “racist” is not just a smear, but is the worrying and logical conclusion of Ukip strategy. Paragraph eight. Disagree with it if you like, but don’t pretend the argument isn’t there.

    Third, I also make the point that “a racist” is not just a badge you can put on a person. It is an interpretation of beliefs and actions. Racism is very rarely “I hate black people”, and as a result, people who are behaving, speaking or even thinking in a racist manner very rarely realise they are, because their motives may be quite different.

    But if many people are calling you racist, and if they are not just ludicrous stuck records such as Barbara Roche, then it behoves you to think about why this might be happening. If you wish to conclude that it is all deliberate nonsense being flung by political opponents then feel free, but I think you are kidding yourselves. And deep down, I think you probably know that.

    Personally, I fear Ukip enormously. And not because it “threatens to shake up the ConLibLab hegemony” because a) that isn’t a hegemony that actually exists, and b) even if it was, being a member of no party at all, I wouldn’t give any sort of toss about it whatsoever.

    No, I fear Ukip because the strategies and languages the party uses serve to legitimise the far right in a country which has always thus far, wonderfully, resisted it. I genuinely think we are heading down a very dangerous path. By all means disagree with me. But don’t tell me I’m just pretending.

    Thank you.

    • Pip

      You have failed to identify or debate the issues that have caused the rise of UKIP and that concern 10s of Millions of British People and have attempted to dirty to water like so many of your fellow MSM Journalist have recently. If you cannot be expected to be taken seriously when you write such distorted nonsense.

      • Hugo Rifkind


        • Pip

          Thanks for the insult, obviously those who don’t agree with you are hopeless in the same way that some people are more equal then others!

        • saffrin

          Oh such a narrow blinkered bigoted mind you have Hugo. How intolerant of you.

        • Kennybhoy

          Oh you classless fucking clown…

      • Kennybhoy

        “PPPS; At least you have the courage to debate your critics, unlike most of your colleagues.PPPPS; Yes indeed I do believe you are just pretending because I don’t for one minute believe that you are stupid.”

        A generous assumption but I disagree. On both counts.

    • brillopad1

      ‘a) that isn’t a hegemony that actually exists’
      It appears you do not understand the meaning of hegemony.

      b) even if it was, being a member of no party at all, I wouldn’t give any sort of toss about it whatsoever.’

      What bizarre thinking.

      You appear to be saying that as long as one is not a member of ‘Liblabcon’ then their policies and implementation have no personal effect.

    • sarahsmith232

      I’m afraid I don’t think you’re right to see Ukip as of a different mould because of ‘the strategies and languages the party uses’. Each political party plays to their core votes belief that there’s an enemy within whose presence in society is acting to destroy their ability to thrive. Miliband loves to throth about ‘the rich’. He presents himself as the saviour that stands against the ‘greedy’ caricature rich.
      Tories do it with the welfare dependent. Sorry, not getting why it’s supposed to be repulsive when Ukip say they want to reduce immigration because they don’t believe that mass immigration is beneficial for society but it’s acceptable when other parties paint their enemy groups in the same us and them, we the worthy sections of society, they the destructive aspects, terms.
      – ‘It’s the difference between recognising that anti-immigrant sentiment is horrid, damaging and terrifying, and being sanguine about stoking it up for political gain.’. Surely it’s just a question of which groups in society do you favour ’cause you believe their presence is overall of benefit. They all go in for marking out the opposing groups, demonising them and presenting themselves as the antidote to. Ukip’s no different from the others for that.

    • Baron

      Perhaps there’s alot of bile, Hugo, because the offering of yours doesn’t rank particularly high on quality of thinking either, does it. Also, to Baron’s liking it’s doped with a touch of insolence of someone who feels he cannot be questioned because of who he is.

      On a personal level: You live in Tower Hamlet, Southall, some of the areas up north populated by the recent waves of immigration?

      On the Atkinson’s case: Have you ever been made angry by someone to the point you lose the capacity to argue rationally, and only want to hurt him? If he has a large nose, you make a remark that links it to elephants’ trunk or whatever? Does this imply you hate all men with big hooters? It might, but only if in your deeds you were to consistently treat them differently, and badly, from those with George Clooney’s nose.

      On a journalistic level; Your argument the society must purge itself of any racial prejudices would carry more weight if you were to offer some evidence that the current form of anti-racism policies have benefitted those you think need help. If you were to show that now there are many more people of skin colour other than white in top jobs in industry, as editors of the papers, top bankers ….also fewer of them in prisons, living in single parent families, underachieving in schools … than in the past. Baron doubts it. Preventing people to say what they think seems to have been counterproductive. Many in the minorities feel as victims even though they may have lost on merit, those who bear the brunt of the anti-racial drive have become pissed off. If Ukip is now harvesting such voters you, and those of your phylum, have only yourselves to blame.

      • Kennybhoy

        “Also, to Baron’s liking it’s doped with a touch of insolence of someone who feels he cannot be questioned because of who he is.”

        “Preventing people to say what they think seems to have been counterproductive.”

        “If Ukip is now harvesting such voters you, and those of your phylum, have only yourselves to blame.”

        Hat trick!

        Nothing is more likely to lead to a recrudescence of fascism in Europe than this.

    • saffrin

      Labour saw those that objected to those with a well deserved reputation for being quick to violence and many other crimes being camped on their doorstep as being racist Hugo, how do you explain the racism in that?
      MSM branded one UKIP member as being racist for advising Lenny Henry, who claimed there weren’t enough black faces on UK TV for his liking to move to a country where there would be but said nothing about Lenny Henry’s racist remark that caused that reply.
      The reality is of course LibLabCon have opened a can of worms they will never be able to close.
      Their hatred for the whiteman has become perfectly clear.
      LibLabCon is, as a result, doomed.

    • Raw England

      “…..legitimise the far right in a country which has always thus far, wonderfully, resisted…”.

      You fail, massively, by absolutely failing to realise that things haven’t stayed the same for the last 60 years. The paradigm you’re basing all your premise on, has LONG gone. We’ve been invaded, literally, by foreigners. And they’ve drained our economy to collapse.

      For perspective, imagine how a British man from 1940 would react to mass-immigration-invaded, multicultural, Leftist-ruled, inexorably Islamic England.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      “But if many people are calling you racist…… then it behoves you to think about why this might be happening”.

      Too vague. We do not know if these people have any experience of UKIP or are just repeating rumours. Nor do we know what they mean by racism. It has been applied to the UKIP campaign poster which shows the cliffs of Dover, which sounds ridiculous to me.

      Never mind ‘many people’, I would be quite prepared to listen to one person whose opinion I respected.

    • colliemum

      OK, I’m late to the party, but this sentence caught my eye:
      “Racism is very rarely “I hate black people”, and as a result, people who are behaving, speaking or even thinking in a racist manner very rarely realise they are, because their motives may be quite different.”

      People “even thinking in a racist manner” without realising it?
      Who then does ‘realise’ that people are ‘thinking in a racist manner’, and what is this ‘racist manner’, exactly? Anything the bien-pensants of the Westminster Village deem to be so, is it? And they now can look into our minds as well …. who knew!

      This reminds me powerfully of the Cold War period, where we told by the then Establishment to beware of Reds under our beds: replace ‘racist’ with ‘communist’, and there’s no difference. Alternatively, you can replace ‘racist’ with ‘capitalist’, if you’re a Labour lover, with the same result.
      Clearly, the Westminster Establishment, to which you belong, Mr Rifkind, is playing the same old game of keeping the populace, i.e. us, in check by scaring us into questioning our own thoughts, so that we do not dare to think differently than what you prescribe.
      This worked in the olden times for which you hanker – it doesn’t work any longer. We’ve noticed that we can think for ourselves, that your ‘prescriptions’ are not to our good, and that reality is vastly different from what you want us to think it is.

      Btw – I’d love to know how you lot know what is in our minds when we ourselves, according to you, don’t know it …

    • hannathegreat

      “Third, I also make the point that “a racist” is not just a badge you can
      put on a person. It is an interpretation of beliefs and actions.”

      But who interprets these beliefs and actions? Under what jurisdiction and to what end? It’s so subjective – herein lies the problem.

      Personally, I think ALL speech should be as free as possible. As Mill said: “My freedom ends where my fist hits your face.” Otherwise there’s the danger of Orwellian contortions of language being used to justify political action. Also, when speech is free, dangerous ideas are exposed and ridiculed. If they’re left bubbling beneath the surface it’s far more dangerous. The lack of free debate has led to the position we’re in today with a lot of people very angry.

      You say that UKIP supporters deny that the party is racist; but equally they could say that YOU deny that there is a large group of vested interests who wish to see UKIP fail. Indeed you do: apparently the ‘hegemony’ doesn’t exist. I think you know that this isn’t true. It may not exist in YOUR eyes, perhaps because you suffer from the ‘narcissism of small differences’. However, it exists. Even those within the circles sometimes admit it exists. It may be not so clear cut as some argue; but it’s there. In a nutshell it’s just the age-old story of power and vested interests and hangers-on all guilty of, at best, confirmation bias; at worse a kind of complex conspiracy, with all players not even liking each other; but preferring the enemy they know to the one they don’t (UKIP).

      You seem rather frightened. I say don’t be. If suppression of debate and abuse continues though, there’s more to be frightened of. A free market of ideas is best to weed out the rubbish.

  • cartimandua

    Hugo the argument is NOT there. You suggest the carrying capacity of the UK has been “thought about” but it has not been touched on by any party at all.
    And it isn’t a “worry” it is factual massive overpopulation for all the infrastructure we have both natural and man made.
    I imagine someone went to Hong Kong and thought the shopping maaarvelous.
    Hong Kong has the hinterland of China and we are more densely populated than China or India.
    The EU is going to expand and push Russia which is already bellicose.
    We depend on cheap oil just to import food.
    jeez what are they doing?

  • cartimandua

    Go on Hugo show us which party you “respect” has ever seriously considered the carrying capacity of these islands. They have not . They have assumed a global economy will somehow “sort it out”. That is barking. Even worse they have kept on with Ponzi schemes leaving the fall out to “someone else”.

  • gerronwithit

    So, you’re not racist Hugo, you just hate and disrespect people who like UKIP.

  • saffrin

    The only political party in the UK at the moment is Labour, who for thirteen years created a race and religious hate campaign by introducing discriminatory laws putting the white man at the bottom of the pile in his/her own country. Demanding we, the indigenous population, change our ways and traditions as they were upsetting the sensibilities of the immigrants racist Labour favoured.

    • chrisdbarnett

      No Labour didn’t put the white man at the bottom of the pile.

      They put the working class white man at the bottom of the pile.

  • GraveDave

    Mine’s the Ace of Spades.

  • Pepe Turcon

    Because they have common sense and are fed up with burocrats telling people anything. The time for truly and directly elected officials has come otherwise is war and I personally favor war, kill the cock sucking liberals and Rinos . Wars are a wonderful invention being used since day one. I did not invent them, mind you and they are inevitable, thanks God.

  • Raw England

    Fuck me. Where do we start?

    Hugo, you just don’t get it, do you? I think you’re forgetting, systematically, that its actually YOU and your like-minded creatures (Leftists) who’re the tiny minority.

    Those UKIP members getting done for speaking their thoughts are, literally, saying what most English people think and say every single day. I’m sure you HATE that fact, but its the truth.

    Having your only nation absolutely destroyed by masses of immigrants tends to do that.

    • Sanctimony

      I just love it when you talk dirty, Raw Lady ….

      • Raw England

        Oh but I can talk SO much more dirtier.

        *Innocent Face*.

        • Doggie Roussel

          Your tautology, Raw Lady, drives me into a slavering frenzy !

          • Raw England

            Down boy 🙂 x

  • you_kid

    I have just concluded a business venture with LA Lowrider Cars, it’s a massive deal! Holiday arrangements will include:

    ***Fly drive straight into LA airport***
    The weather is great: sunny 30 degr.C.
    I will give you cheap price.

    ***’Royale’ quality soft-top lowrider hire***
    street map of Compton added at no extra cost,
    you are welcome to sing all the way.

    Any takers?

    • Raw England

      How come you always say such random, weird things?

      • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

        Because he’s as thick as they come.

  • The PrangWizard of England

    I am not a member or supporter of UKIP, I am a member of another, and much smaller party, the English Democrats, but the way the British Establishment, supported by the mainstream media, the BBC, The Times, Telegraph etc., and a whole army of hacks, is attacking it and Mr Farage, convinces me more than ever that there must be an end to their power and influence. The only way to do this is for the entire political landscape to be changed. There must be an end to the Union, so I support Scottish independence, and England must have its own parliament, of directly elected MPs. The UK is a dying State, but the British Establishment, and the hangers on, the rich connected families, depend on it, and this is why any challenge to them from any source must be fought with all the dirt they can find and if they don’t find enough they invent it. UKIP is however just another Unionist party, they do not go far enough in their opposition to the status quo, they just want out of the EU.

  • Kennybhoy

    Dear Fraser Nelson,

    (I address myself to the organ grinder rather than the monkey.)

    Most regular posters around here know that I am not a UKIP supporter. But this constant barrage of anti UKIP posts by your troop of monkeys is beyond tiresome and into the realm of the offensive. You are all, young Maister Murray excepted, a bunch of f*****g hacks!

    Up Yours!


  • Kennybhoy

    Hello Again Fraser Nelson!

    You see this post by “The PrangWizard of England”? He and I must have been typing at the same time. It goes without saying that I utterly reject his nationalism. But I wholeheartedly agree with him that your purblind F*****G arrogance “convinces me more than ever that there must be an end to their (and your) power and influence.” If you are not stopped you will bring this country and the Continent to the brink of revolution. There are already signs that Europe is in a pre-revolutionary state.

    God forgive you all…

  • victor67

    Why do racists like UKIP? Doh!!!!

  • Martin Jennerson

    Face it you don’t have a single clue about what racism is – it isn’t people saying relatively harmless things from their own ethnic perspective on twitter. You really are pathetic and weak-minded if you consider that some kind of serious racism worth commenting on.

  • 0rangeman

    Lets have a little bit of what the BBC likes to call balance to this one sided debate for example

    Tory councillor John Morgan from Highclere Gardens was convicted of stealing £150,000 from now deceased 92-year-old Beryl Gittens between 2004 and 2012

    Tory councillor Dr. Peter Moseley, was a former BNP member,

    Tory councillor Danny Mayzes, said a film featuring violent vigilantes offered a good way of dealing with immigrants

    Tory councillor David Whittaker was found guilty of sexual assault on a child and causing a child under the age of 16 to watch a sexual act.

    Tory MP Aiden Burely who went to a Nazi stag do with people who were dressed in SS uniforms that’s ok. He’s still an MP

    Tory councillor John Morgan from Highclere Gardens was convicted of stealing £150,000 from now deceased 92-year-old Beryl Gittens between 2004 and 2012

    Tory Political Research Unit holding gay orgies and billing the taxpayer for the sessions at the £2500 a night Light Apart Hotel

    Labour Partys Margret Burke allowed to run and be elected as a councillor even though she was Deputy Fuhrer of a Neo Nazi group.

    Labours Harriet Harman and Patricia Hewitt
    in the Labour party leadership who along with Lord Justice Fulford
    helped promote the aims of the Paedophile Information Exchange in its
    attempts to legalise sex with babies as young as four years old

    Labour councillor Nilgun Canver found guilty of falsely claiming money from Harrow Council

    Labour Peer Lord Ahmed racist jibes blaming Jewish-owned media organisations for his imprisonment for dangerous driving

    Labour MP Ian Lavery was criticised after he posed for a picture with his son who had blacked up to look like Michael Jackson

    Labous Diane Abbot threatened with the sack unless she withdrew racist jibes she made on twitter

    LIB DEMS[/b]

    Lib Dem candidate David Jack for Stoke North resigned after being caught making racist comments by e-mail

    Lib Dems leader Nick Clegg
    has developed a bad case of amnesia over the balooning Cyril Smith
    child abuse affair plus about to be sued by Smiths victims he had the
    same condition when the Lored Rennaed groping scandal emerged and was
    covered up since 2003.

    Lib Dem Councillor Stephen Fenwick Worcester Park convicted of a racially aggravated assault on a train against an immigrant.

    Lib Dem MP Mike Hancock accused of sexually abusing a constituent and remains an MP for them.

    Lib Dem Warren Swaine made blatantly racist comments about MP Chuka Umunna Labour MP for Streatham

    Lib Dem Ajit Atwal who is a councillor and magistrate refused to resign after posing with an AK-47 rifle and posting the picture on Twitter.

    Lib Dems Tom Winnifrith and Jonathan Mathews suggestion that black people were responsible for problem estates were party candidates in Tower Hamlets London

    Lib Dem Lord Rennard
    affair when 11 female members of the party brought sexual misconduct
    allegations against the parties biggest doner dating back to 2003 when
    the first groping allegations were made to by victims to the party but
    were quietly hushed up.

  • Ooh!MePurse!

    I will not, under any circumstances vote Ukip. It is not because I think that they are racist. There are racist members of Ukip. There are also racist members of the Labour Party, the Conservative Party and the other lot.

    I will not vote Ukip because doing so will lead to a Labour government. Voting Ukip will lead to sky high taxes, soaring interest rates and growing unemployment. Despite whatever Labour or their Ukip allies say, much has been achieved since 2010. I’m proud of that and will not risk it all to vote for a semi-religious sect.

    Vote Ukip get Labour (and no referendum).

    Vote Conservative get more recovery (and a referendum).

    Commonsense really.

    • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

      Vote liblabcon get EU.

      There will never be a recovery, stop being so jejune.

      Common sense would be growing a spine and getting behind UKIP. The Tories can’t win the next election, it’s time you quickly jumped ship to one that stands a chance.

      • Ooh!MePurse!

        Never in a million years! I’d rather keep my spine and vote according to principle than vote for a quasi-religious sect. Ukip will do extremely well in the Euro elections and then disappear again. Like a nasty stain. Vote Ukip, get Labour, get no referendum.

        • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

          OOOOOH, so you wouldn’t vote for them in any case. You made it seem as though you would but for fear of a labour government.

          UKIP aren’t religious. They won’t be going anywhere, the Tories are dead and UKIP will replace them. UKIP speak for the people, and the people know that.

    • Baron

      What makes you trust the boy with his referendum promise, OohMePurse? More to the point, what makes you think a referendum will ever secure the ‘out’ vote?

    • Kennybhoy

      Sensible chap! 🙂

      • Ooh!MePurse!

        Thank you. Same to you. Good manners are so pleasant.

  • BigCheddar

    UKIP have changed the debate on immigration. Before they came along opinion pieces of this genre successfully suppressed debate on a topic that troubles a majority of people in this country. It made us feel smeared for daring to suggest that the transformation of identity and culture we are going to experience over the next 10 – 15 years was something unattractive. Now it’s OK. That means we are now a more democratic country. Hugo, if you accept democracy then it’s time to respect diversity of opinion. I am not a lesser person than you because I’m going to support a party that reflects my fears on Europe and immigration. I despise you for playing the racist card in this shallow, bullying piece.

  • Realpolitik/ fruitcake/ racist

    UKIP aren’t racist, it’s your desperate attempt to discredit them. We are sick to death of your smear campaign, it’s now tedious.

    • Raw England

      Thing is, Hugo isn’t even trying to smear UKIP; he just literally does not understand the situation whatsoever. Like the establishment, political class and media, he’s absolutely, completely lost all touch with the actual native people of this nation, and of civilisational/identity/racial/cultural matters in general..

  • Bill_der_Berg

    It cannot be said that UKIP are trying to attract racist votes. The same was not true of the Conservatives. If the opinion polls showed support for the BNP or National Front edging upwards, the Tories would make some pre-election statement in order to rectify the situation. The most memorable example is Margaret Thatcher’s ‘Our people are being swamped’, and she was not talking about East Europeans.

  • Bonkim

    ‘Race’ is a misnomer – British people are by and large not racists – it is possible that appearance, cultural and religious practices of new residents are seen as cause for social discordance. What is wrong with that? Human societies thrive on certainty; diversity that they don’t understand or like is threatening to most. People in any society have their human rights to stability and diversity on a massive scale as has been forced upon the British people is not welcome.

  • callingallcomets

    Don’t worry, Hugo, old bean, in the rarified atmosphere of your North London dinner parties and surrounded by your Latvian nanny, Bulgarian cleaner and Polish gardener you’ll never have to meet a real UKIP member or supporter…..just cut and paste some stuff you read in the papers a few days ago and insert clever colour supplement words like Dadaist to show how cultured you are….

  • Mike

    One can postulate on many similar comparisons like if Harman isn’t a pedophile apologist why did she support the pedophile exchange and this headline is no different except in fact.

    Unlike the truth and facts about Harman and PIE, its only the wet liberals that claim UKIP to be racist as everyone else whether openly or not, will agree they are just telling it as it is. Some may whisper it, some may shout inconvenient truths from the roof tops and even LibLabCon know these truths hence the protracted smear campaigns in the media against UKIP.

    Mass immigration costs the country dear, non integration of ethnic groups actually fosters racism and so forth as obvious truths can only be viewed as racists when those calling it such are themselves bigotted and racist.

    All parties have a mix of different people with individual views and in LibLabCon, woe betide anyone that strays from the party line as the whips will be out to remove them from the party. Sound like democracy ? Not at all, but UKIP being a young party hasn’t degenerated to a bullying bunch of sadists that the main stream control freaks have to keep their troops in line.

    If the media had spent half the time dragging up old history and dirt on LibLabCon compared to UKIP, there wouldn’t be any room for any other news. The media is used to throwing mud at people until it sticks but this time around, the electorate isn’t having it and its all coming back to the liars and smear mongers.

  • pobinr

    Racists judge a group of people from a small sample of them then claim they are all the same!
    That’s exactly what UKIP bashers do!
    I am a member of UKIP. I haven’t met any racists in it yet.
    The chairperson of our branch is an Asian lady from Jamaica.
    The party is open to all. Apart from racists!
    There’s always a minority in any party or group who can let that group down
    When racists are discovered in UKIP they are kicked out.
    The members comprise ordinary people who are tired of housing shortages, more houses on greenbelt, jobs taken & wages driven down, more traffic congestion, full schools, longer NHS queues & last but not least loss of democracy to the EU.
    In other words being overrun & overruled.
    I’ve yet to hear a satisfatory answer from the UKIP bashers to the question – What do these concerns have to do with racism or xenophobia ?

    EU = more & more centralised control & a desire to impose political union on the people of Europe without their consent.

    How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe;

    Remote control by the EU

    EU new Soviet Union ?

    The unelected crooks & recycled Communists running the EU

    We’re now run by Big Banks,Big Business &Big Bureaucrats

    Nigel Farage of UKIP Confronts the EU Commissioners

    • GraveDave

      The chairperson of our branch is an Asian lady from Jamaica.

      And I expect that’s exactly why she was given the job. How many better qualified white women or white men were passed up for it just because UKIP need a few tokens to prove how unracist they are. Everywhere I keep hearing about this one’s mixed race wife, that one’s Asian wife. This one’s Anglo/Indian children. Even some of the BNP councillors bragged of having mixed race families (and in many instances it was shown to be true). I’ve got a few white friends with mixed race families, who, if anything, thinks it allows them a legit voice on the behaviour and alleged criminality of the non white other, be they Black, Asian, Muslim or whatever. All in all though it just shows UKIP is destined to go the same politically correct way as all the rest.


      • pobinr

        ‘Given the job’
        It’s a thankless task. Lots of admin. No salary. She is an avid UKIP supporter of her own volition.

        • cartimandua

          One thing as well as stopping the vast increase in numbers from the EU and beyond would be to insist for instance that parents bear the cost of bringing a child up to scratch before going into a classroom.
          They do that in the private sector.
          If someone migrates to make themselves richer they should bear the costs of that NOT us.
          And we need out of asylum conventions. Only those few who
          risk death because they have supported Western values in public should come here (like Malala).
          We cannot take in every poor soul whose country is nasty . That is most of the world.

          • GraveDave

            ‘Risk death’ – and how many deaths has the sanctions system caused through making people without and /or homeless. Human Rights and endless charity everywhere else but home.
            F—-g great this country.

        • GraveDave

          All I’m saying is it doesn’t prove anything to have black friends or even a black best friend, wife, black relatives – children etc.. I also know a few black people who don’t like other black people – Africans certainly have a few things to say about their Caribbean cousins, Indians about Pakistanis, Turks and Greeks. Of course that’s probably as much to do with culture and religion and class. But do remember that before commonwealth and ‘coloured’ immigration we used to hate the ‘frogs and eyeties’ too. Jews… Then there was the north and south divide. People will always find a hate target if they want one. It’s best not to buy in, in the first place. Nor to play the other game and keep apologising to the PC fascists. That’s why if I hate one thing, it’s this I’m not a racist – I have a black wife, children, best friend – del where applicable.
          Because to me that’s just playing into the hands of the whole PC farce and letting them win. .

        • GraveDave

          Are you a racist?
          I’m white So I suppose I must be – a bit.

      • pobinr

        Not given the job. No salary. Lots of admin. Lots of frustration. It’s voluntary & she’s doing it of her own volition & out of her own belief.

  • Fergus Pickering

    Repeat after me. Muslims are scary people and they want to take over our country. Got it? With a name like Rifkind you would think you might have.

  • Fergus Pickering

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: racism is natural to human beings. We prefer that we know to that we don’t know. And that is fair and right. Of course, as Dickens pointed out, do-gooders tend to neglect those to whom they have a duty and whom they know, in favour of Africans or what-have-you whom they don’t. Why? Because they don’t like people much. They prefer ideas.

    • GraveDave

      Or see ‘The Noble Savage.’

      • Fergus Pickering

        Thank you, GraveDave. I had not seen that. Or, as Thomas Hobbes has it, ‘solitary,poor, nasty, brutish and short’. Civilisation is a fragile thing.

  • John Lea

    Dear Mr Rifkind, in light of the breaking news concerning Mr David Bishop, I wonder if you would like to apologise to UKIP for the idiotic assertions in your article?

  • pobinr

    Our unelected EU Emperor Herman Van Rompuy appears to be doing his best to start WWIII >

    Can you believe we’ve sleep walked into an empire & we have a president no one voted for!
    It’s not only undermined our democracy.
    It’s extremely dangerous!
    Yet all that people go on about is a minoroty of nut jobs in UKIP.
    I used to wonder how the Nazis foisted themselves onto a civilised nation like Germany.
    Now I know how.
    Most people are stupid complacent & ignorant of the bigger picture & what is realy going on that is fundamentally wrong

    OPEN YOUR EYES people >

    Before it’s too late!

  • Bill_der_Berg

    The strange thing is that a country that is obsessed with winkling out racists, homophobes and islamophobes is such a moral cesspool in other respects. There are politicians who lied to get the nation into disastrous wars and now benefits from a cover up; news media that for years turned a blind eye to serial child abuse by celebrities; pervy parliamentarians and corrupt police.

    No doubt I could add to the list but you get the picture.

  • balance_and_reason

    This has got to be one of the most fatuous articles I’ve had the misfortune to read in this generally decent magazine.
    UKIP may well harbour people with racist attitudes, it tends to be there to a lesser or greater degree in all people on this earth.
    UKIP started initially as a pressure group to rid Britain of the worst excesses of the EU and having started a bandwagon going it has attracted people who are livid about the socialist derogation of duty from 1997 onwards of maintaining some sort of control on borders and ensuring migration was integrated and didn’t cause instability. Labour failed to do this, and the explosion of migration was not adequately planned, provided for and in many area’s there has been no integration, except developing skills to negotiate the tricky benefits system. We then have the situation where our culture begins (and I do say begin’s) to be threatened as high birth rates of certain communities start to confer greater democratic power….not a problem if those communities had been integrated through managed immigration; most certainly a problem if the aims, hopes and dreams of those communities are very sharply tangential to the broad sweep of our own. I need not point out to you, a specialist in this area, obviously, that a quite extraordinary percentage of new births in this country are to those whose parents came from elsewhere.
    I put it to you that that is a valid concern for British people, it is not racist, it is a concern that the culture here , which has slowly and steadily evolved , is not violently interrupted and twisted against the interests of this essentially christian based democracy….the stability and safety of which has attracted all the migration, over the centuries, in the first place.

  • NickG

    The racist card is overused and is thus no longer a trump amongst fair minded Brits.

  • Thoughtful Ulsterman

    The problem with the question posed is that the word “racist” or “racism” doesn’t really have a very precise definition. It doesn’t necessarily mean anything concerning malice or hate.

    From the first context in the OED:

    “Racism: The belief that all members of each race
    possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially
    so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or

    Now human genetics is indeed a continum, but anyone with the slightest understanding of statistical science fact will understand that
    different human populations have evolved differently in different
    geographical environments in a way to suit that environment, and that human biodiversity exists – the definition above is open enough to mean that acknowledging such facts can mean that YOU ARE A RACIST. If you have ever stated that you think sub-Saharan Africans make excellent sprinters (as they are statistically) then YOU ARE A RACIST. If you have ever discussed cultural differences in people from different parts of the world (caused by their differing evolutionary history) then YOU ARE A RACIST.

    Therefore, due to the wide imprecise definition of the
    word “racism”, in many of the cases where the word has been used, it is an utterly pointless waste of time in arguing whether or not someone is a “racist” as saying “yes, they are a racist” in many cases can mean the same as saying “they said 2+2=4”. Rather it is increasingly used as nothing other than Big Brother’s brainwashing tool to silence anyone who opposes the destructive and degenerate Cultural Marxist agenda.

    • sadmaninagame

      Human biodiversity is extremely narrow though. I mean we’re genetically so similar to each other the difference between you and a random Chinese person is likely to be the same in extent as that between you and your white next door neighbour. Where there is diversity it’s tended to be of a superficial nature, like skin colour. There are some major innovations however, like sickle cell and other variations , but in general the Human genome is remarkably uniform.

      On the question of superficial variation, the reasons for this might be interesting in themselves as they serve no obvious biological purpose except to allow us to distinguish “the other” more easily. Perhaps that’s the point or was in the past.

      Regardless, cultural differences swamp genetic differences in the short term. Genetic differences only matter in statistical terms over the longer term (geological time, tens to hundreds of thousands of years) and as we no longer have geological barriers to interbreeding, this is itself becoming less and less.

      • balance_and_reason

        Actually you are not entirely correct; for instance, oriental folks hips are placed slightly differently on the pelvis to the African hip which is again slightly different to the european position. The difference makes a difference to the size that a babies head can be when it travels down the birth canal and emerges. Largest oriental’s, second largest european, third largest africa…..the African hip joints are better placed and operate more efficiently physically than oriental placement facilitating faster, stronger running , jumping etc…hence the lack of success in that field despite strenuous effort from the chinese. Euro’s sort of in the middle….plenty of other quite robust differences actually….just got to talk to a scientist instead of a guardian reader.

        • sadmaninagame

          But your hip is almost certainly placed differently to your next door neighbours hip. So is your chin. That’s my point.

      • Thoughtful Ulsterman

        I also specifically mentioned cultural differences very intentionally, as your culture is not simply something entirely separate from your evolutionary history.

        Was going to discuss more, but I see Ed West has just wrote a new piece specifically on this topic:

  • Paul Isclosed

    If children aren’t sexy, how come so many paedophiles seem to like them?

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Watching YouTube clips of Nigel Farage tearing those EU faggots a new asshole (and I say this with all due respect) is sufficient to get my vote. But then I`m very shallow and impressionable.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    ” All it cared about, though, was that people don’t think it is racist. Which was a pretty glaring admission that it knew people might”.

    The same goes for Zionists. What does that tell us?.

  • chrisdbarnett

    Sorry everyone. I’ve just been reliably informed that the editorial has made an awful mistake.

    The title of article should have been “If UKIP aren’t racist, how comes there is so many ex-Tories supporting them”.

    I believe they are going to correct the article soon. Oh and they are going to wipe all the comments so we debate it all from the proper question!

  • Dissavowed

    Well, the Labour party lied to take us into an illegal war, where, according to the best statistics we have, a million non-combatants, [thats women, children, civilians] have been killed. Excess deaths they are called.

    And they all had BROWN SKIN.

    So surely the really crazy racists will be voting Labour?

  • Xaider

    Too stupid, didn’t read the article. Voting UKIP, thanks.

  • matrun

    I think the biggest problem here is what’s considered racist; to some people questioning immigration policy / being anti-immigration (=UKIP) equates to being the personification of Hitler himself, and with no apparent hint of self-awareness or common sense perspective. To others, it has to be based on actual persecution or discrimination – like not offering someone a job solely because of their race. My guess is that most are in between. UKIP however – taking a general impression of the party / supporters – to my eye are just old school Conservatives. This painting of UKIP as quite simply Nazis (no exaggeration – at least not in the various implications of articles like this) is just silly, and it’s out of desperation. The BNP used to be the big thing to get mad about, with at least some justification, but UKIP? No, just desperation. And in going for them in this way and engaging in such exaggerated caricatures is not only the worst sort of black and white thinking, it also just looks really lame and really desperate, and people aren’t conned, so UKIP’s popularity rises…