Television

Trevor Phillips's documentary on Muslims was shocking - but not surprising

Channel 4's What British Muslims Really Think will come as no surprise to the British public, says James Delingpole

16 April 2016

9:00 AM

16 April 2016

9:00 AM

‘Our findings will shock many people,’ promised Trevor Phillips at the beginning of What British Muslims Really Think (Channel 4, Wednesday).

But the depressing thing is that I doubt they will, actually. I think the general British public have known for some time what Phillips’s documentary professed to find surprising: that large numbers of Muslims don’t want to integrate, that their views aren’t remotely enlightened, and that more than a few of them sympathise with terrorism. It’s only the establishment elite that has ever pretended otherwise.

As former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, Phillips was very much part of that elite. He commissioned the 1997 Runnymede report that popularised the word ‘Islamophobia’. The fact that so impeccably liberal a figure is now issuing a mea culpa like this speaks volumes about how dire the situation has grown. ‘Everyone who has pinned their hopes on the rise of reforming and liberal British Muslim voices are in for a disappointment,’ said Phillips. ‘These voices are nowhere near as numerous as they need to be to make an impact.


Here are the stats to prove it: 52 per cent of Britain’s three million Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal; 39 per cent think a woman should always obey her husband; 18 per cent sympathise with people who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet; 4 per cent — that equates to about 100,000 Muslims — have ‘sympathy for people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice’. Oh, and if any of them knew someone was involved in supporting terrorism in Syria, just one in three would report it to the police. The other two million, then, would keep schtum.

Normally the PC response to these surveys is to shoot the messenger, as the BBC and the Guardian and the usual dhimmi apologists did last year, when the Sun revealed that one in four British Muslims sympathised with the motives of the Charlie Hebdo killers. They’ll find it harder this time, not just because Phillips is black and probably reads the Guardian, but also because the survey was so thorough. It was conducted, face to face, by people of the same religion. And when it came to the really tricky question — the one about terrorism — a blank envelope was provided for the answer, so that respondents felt freer to say what they really thought.

There wasn’t much to disagree with in this brave and honest programme, except for the odd momentary lapse, as when Phillips said, of Islamophobia, ‘I’ve no doubt that most of it emanates from sheer blind prejudice.’ I doubt even he believes that excuse any more. It was just a legacy of the kind of language all public figures were pretty much forced to use about the Religion of Peace till quite recently — Cameron showing the way with that disingenuous speech about ‘moderate and reforming voices who speak for the vast majority of Muslims’.

Of course we’d all like to believe that stuff, but the truth just doesn’t accord with the fantasy. Take those 85 Sharia councils currently violating one of the most basic principles of English justice — equality before the law. Yes, we can cosily delude ourselves that they just deal with civil issues — marriage mainly — that can safely be regulated by religion. But can they? A Zurich professor called Elham Manea, herself a Muslim, had attended these courts and found them promoting a version of Islam as extreme as that practised in her native Yemen or by the Taliban, where women were treated as ‘minors in perpetual need of male guardianship’. How exactly does that accord with the legislation and practice of a country where men and women are supposed to have guaranteed equality?

Our solution up until now has been a kind of national cognitive dissonance — one where we all agree to pretend that Muslims are sweet, smiley and integrated, like lovely Nadiya from Great British Bake Off and that her fellow Lutonians — the 7/7 suicide bombers — have, as the weasel phrase has it, ‘nothing to do with Islam’.

It’s not easy, though, and getting harder — as we saw on this week’s The Island with Bear Grylls (Channel 4, Mondays). I don’t doubt the producers were overjoyed when they managed to recruit their first Muslim castaway — Bradford body-builder Rizwan Shabir. But any hopes of a male Nadiya vanished this week when he quit, pleading an inability to cope with ‘living with women who are half-naked’.

Hmm. Seems to me that even before the men encountered the women, he was struggling to integrate — or indeed pull his weight — and that persuading himself he was being a good Muslim was the perfect way of ducking out of more hardship at no cost to his ego.

I’ll leave the last word on this yawning cultural chasm to Noshaba Hussain, middle-aged former headmistress of Springfield Primary, one of the Trojan Horse schools in Birmingham. A nine-year-old pupil had asked why she wasn’t wearing a headscarf, declaring, ‘Only slags don’t cover their heads.’ ‘This attitude is not acceptable in state schools in Britain,’ observed Ms Hussain. Well indeed. As Ray Honeyford was so maligned for telling us just 32 years ago.

You might disagree with half of it, but you’ll enjoy reading all of it. Try your first 10 weeks for just $10


Show comments
  • Patrick

    Nothing will change In 10-15 years another TV programme will be made about the smae subject. The only difference will be a larger proportion of Muslims supporting terrorism/covering women/banning gay men and women. And every year more will come and more will be born in Britain. No one has any backbone to stop it and the law/government all support it due to white guilt and fear of looking racist. When the English are a minority in England don’t expect the non-English to have any guit or fear, of treating us the way ISIS treats its nonmuslims in Iraq or Syria

    • Mary Ann

      Well if the white majority choose not to have babies, they cannot be surprised when they become a minority, the answer to your problem is for white women to have more babies.

      • Cyril Sneer

        A stunningly ignorant comment.

        Particularly in light of the future population problems of the world, the destruction of marriage and the family unit, abortions on request and the fact that most modern western family units cannot afford to have one spouse stay at home all the time. Filling the country with cheap labour will only drive down wages thus requiring both spouses to work.

        In a nutshell, liberal ideology has enabled the very things I have just mentioned above.

        And now you b tch and whine because western women are ‘not having enough babies’… the planet has a population problem for god sake!

        “the answer to your problem is for white women to have more babies.”

        And overpopulate us? No Mary the answer is clearly to stop importing 3rd worlders on mass and maintain our population at a level where we can self provide if required. All you want to do is load this country with people, turning it into a socialist overcrowded broken hellhole and then later you’ll be whining about the fact cat rich. You work for them, you support their policies and you don’t even realise because you are so utterly blinded by race guilt liberal BS.

        • ProfessorPistov

          Excellent reply. Go Cyril.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Go with you, back in time to your lost era? Right.

        • ardenjm

          Nevertheless, when we estimate abortion numbers in Western Europe since the 1970s and the number of (mostly Muslim) immigrants into Germany, France, Spain, Italy and the UK – there is a surprising correlation: tens of millions of both. We didn’t want the kids. We did want the cheap labour. So we killed the kids and shipped in the help. Pure Market ideology at its reddest in tooth and claw.
          But my, daring to question the wisdom of that really vexes those who benefited from it, I guess.

          Because as for having an over-population problem I think you’ll find that in our part of the world – and in East Asia – the worry is an AGEING population. Indeed, Japan faces a death spiral. And the reason why Merkel opened wide the doors last Summer is because she’s betting (she’s REALLY betting) that she can ‘integrate’ the refugees because her own Volk are STILL aborting and contracepting their own. How many children did Mutti (oh the irony!) decide to have herself, remind me?

          Now, in your “I’d like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony” view of things this is going to be splendid for the World: fewer people, less damage done to the environment, more resources, etc etc. Fine.
          But in the real world where the World doesn’t think collectively this means that your parents, yourselves and your children, once they are old and decrepit will be being looked after (and paid for by) the children of those who do have children i.e. Muslims.

          Think on’t.
          And then raise a glass to the wonderful world our Abortion Culture bequeaths to the few who do manage to make it out of a Liberalised white westerner’s womb.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame women having control of their bodies, etc.

          • ardenjm

            ‘Control of one’s body’ is a relative value, not an absolute one as evidenced by two things:
            1. No-one except extremists advocate abortion up to full term no questions asked. Why not? What magically changes between 6 months and 9 months that makes us say to a woman, “you have to keep your baby now?”
            If you are committed to women having that control then you are committed to abortion up to full term. Are you committed to that? If not, why not?
            If you are then please tell me: how do you feel about the taking of viable infant life just because it is located in a woman’s womb? For you, is that killing morally less grave than limiting her ‘control’ over her own body? I’d be interested to read your justifications.
            2. Men who are conscripted have their bodies, indeed their lives, controlled by the state in times of war. We accept it as necessary for the defense of the common good. Every 11th of November we commerate their sacrifice, in fact, for the good of the nation. Tell me, fighting against Hitler, was it good to implement conscription or not?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Well, given you’d clearly have not done so…

            And Jewish law is quite clear on the value of an unborn child, for instance.

          • ardenjm

            So humour me here a little:
            Are you agreeing that you’re not an absolutist when it comes to “women having control of their own bodies”? because that’s what it sounds like to me even if your comment is hard to understand.
            In which case perhaps you’d be good enough to clarify when the rights of control cede before the right to life of the unborn child.
            You make an appeal to Jewish law which, I think we both realise, doesn’t have quite the same statute as, for instance, Canon Law in the Catholic Church. Still, the shared condemnations of killing the unborn child is transcultural (the Church would affirm that it’s part of the natural law patrimony that comes from being moral agents – it’s part of our hard-wiring). Apart from an affectivo-cultural attachment to Jewish Law that a Jew understandably has how does a goyim like myself not see more merit in the Natural Law argument rather than your appeal to Jewish Law (which of course has to be mediated through the Chosen People who form just 0.2% of the souls created by God in His wisdom.) The Noachide Law, after all, could perform a similar function to Natural Law but fatally lacks a magisterial authority that could cut through the Gordian knots of the different historical interpretations – even the interpreters are interpreted! Maimonides in particular.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You don’t know Jewish law, it’s clear.

            That makes it very plain that an unborn child is not worth the same as one which has been born. And allows abortion if the child will harm the mother, physically or mentally.

            Moreover, realistically women won’t stop having abortions. The question is how many of them will die if they can’t seek legal recourse.

          • ardenjm

            “You don’t know Jewish law, it’s clear.”
            I knew that the unborn child was of less value than the born child and the adult.
            What wasn’t clear was your reply.
            (Let’s agree to over look your du haut en bas condescension.)
            But now you’ve shifted the goal-post. You initially used a secularist argument: the woman has control over her body. You side-stepped the two cases I raised that relativise that to whit – are you therefore in favour of full term abortion, and what about conscription of male bodies and lives. You then take another tack – without being explicit: the unborn are not as valuable as one that has been born and abortion is permissible if the child (re-iteration of the secular arguments) will ‘harm’ the mother physically or mentally.
            So back to my initial questions, it seems:
            You are in favour of abortion up to full term should the mother have a mental anguish at the prospect of giving birth to her child.
            Are you SURE Jewish Law would support you on that?
            After all, you DO know Jewish Law much, much better than I do.

            Women won’t stop having abortions.
            That’s true.
            People take lives for all kinds of different reasons.
            Creating State centres in which they can do so – often multiple times, alas – is not something that taxes should be spent on, I suggest: unless we opt in, of course.
            How many would die?
            I think we’re probably some way off the 300,000,000 babies that China officially recognised as having been aborted under their One Child Policy.
            Funny how those numbers don’t count but the handful of back street abortion victims (as tragic as it is) have to count. They’re ALWAYS made to count.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You tried to being up things based on your misunderstandings.

            And your desire to murder women because they have unviable pregnancies which threaten their health, unless they happen to be rich…. your fake concern is evidently that.

            As you talk about the sort of totalitarian state you need for your ban, China…

          • ardenjm

            Well your latest reply might have made sense to you but it reads like gibberish to me.
            At the third time of asking, please clarify. (I think we can set aside your misappropriation of anything meaningfully Jewish in your point of view since, although you are twisting and turning away from a straight answer we both know that your ideological commitments aren’t compatible with anything recognisably BIBLICALLY Jewish. Though there might still be a nominally or culturally Jewish tradition you can lay claim to…)
            Let me help you then, to clarify, in those areas you mealy-mouthed refuse to do so:
            1. You are in favour of full term abortion should the Mother request it. On her own grounds, justified by the secular feminist argument of ‘full control over her body.’
            2. You have to disagree, by the same logic, with conscription of male bodies to fight wars.
            3. To avoid being skewered on your frankly horrific commitment to killing babies at 9 months gestation (shades of Obama come to mind) you use ugly rhetorical devices like “your desire to murder women.” You know that’s just ridiculous grandstanding which, judging by the dozens of posts you’ve made in the last few hours (some of which I agree with, btw) is, nevertheless, your default setting.
            Clearly, when you’ve lost an argument you resort to name-calling.
            It won’t do. And to elide over 300,000,000 (official figures!) as if these are mere details just so that you can feel self-righteously pro-women is a scary place to have ended up in. What’s even scarier is that you REALLY don’t get that.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Then take more ESOL lessons, as you don’t think and scream hate based on your Jewhate and your multiple personalities are spewing…right, more Jewhate and denial Jews are Jewish.

            1. Your fantasy.
            2. Your fantasy.
            3. Your desire to skewer people, and your fantasy.

            As you blame me for your posts, and as you simply fight the public health arguments.
            If you’ve agreed with me, it’s quite simple – you’ve misread the post.

            I don’t “get” your fantasy you’ve put me in, correct, as it’s entirely yours.

          • ardenjm

            “scream hate based on your Jewhate”
            That’s a tactic you employ often with those who beat you in an argument. It’s clearly an attempt at trying to silence them. It won’t work.

            So just for the record: not only do I disagree with you, I also disagree with your version of Judaism. Not only does it bear little resemblance to anything we can read in the Old Testament it also makes me cringe in the light of the wisdom we read in Martin Buber, Emmanuel Levinas, Lev Shestov, Hannah Arendt, Isaiah Berlin, Viktor Frankl….
            But there. There are scheißerei and menschen in every community and religious belief system. You are a perfect example of the former. They are luminous examples of the latter.

            As for the multiple personalities thing you accuse me of having? Nope. That’s your paranoia. Largely fuelled by the fact that you seem to have both time and desire to make many many posts in various places on the internet. I have neither that amount of time nor such inclination. I have one account and that’s more than enough. But you just feel sore because your bluster, cry-bullying and general incoherency hasn’t worked to win the argument.
            Those tactics are often employed by Liberal Fascists and unfortunately some of those who belong to a community who suffered at the hands of fascists haven’t been immune from exploiting the sufferings of others as a way of refusing all scrutiny. It’s shameful, really, and brazen. In kinder times and circumstances it would be admirable chutzpah. In the context of the global fetal genocide of the last 40 years it’s morally squalid of you.

            As for my ‘fantasies’ – you could easily dispel them by clarifying your position as you were asked way back at the beginning. You’ve signally refused to do that. Therefore, I just drew the conclusions of your expressed positions.
            Here:
            “an unborn child is not worth the same as one which has been born. And allows abortion if the child will harm the mother, physically or mentally.”
            And here:
            “you blame women having control of their bodies.”
            Both of these are ‘trump cards’ for you.
            Thus you are in favour of abortion on demand up to 9 months pregnancy should the Mother appeal to the harm she will experience if she is forced to give birth, based on the apparently (in your eyes) inviolable principle of ‘bodily control.’ If that’s NOT what you believe all you need to do is SAY IT. I’ve invited you to do so several times. In response (as you feel more and more cornered into being obliged to recognise the frankly grotesque consequences of your ideological commitments) you’ve gone on the attack becoming shrill and paranoid. This latest offering being crazy. Christopher Hitchens at least had the honesty to recognise that his position on abortion meant he had to accept the tearing apart of a human life in the womb. But I suspect such intellectual honesty is beyond you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, the whining about facts, as you blame me for your censorious views.

            Of course you disagree with those born Jewish, like me.
            100%, plain, Jewhate.

            As you deny your post, and spew I’m magically paranoid, a far right, social darwinist, totalitarian tactic to shut down debate because I mocked your misuse of a tense. As you then whine that a Jew’s posting on the internet, check.

            As you try and blame Liberals for your Fash views, check.
            As you make up more fantasies to blame me for, check, they’re 100% your views, not mine. I don’t need to do anything but look at your view that you want “abortion on demand up to 9 months pregnancy”, as you said…

            As you suspect Jews, check…

            I’m sure you want to beat me, as your “debate” i.e. your fantasies…

          • ardenjm

            “Ah, the whining about facts, as you blame me for your censorious views.”
            More bluster.
            “Of course you disagree with those born Jewish, like me.
            100%, plain, Jewhate”
            Nope. But I recognise how useful it is to use that old canard. It allows you to avoid being called to task. Still, I’ve addressed it above.
            “As you deny your post, and spew I’m magically paranoid, a far right, social darwinist, totalitarian tactic to shut down debate because I mocked your misuse of a tense. As you then whine that a Jew’s posting on the internet, check.”
            Happy to debate. You are the one that’s gone on the spittle-flecked nutties for the last few posts.
            “they’re 100% your views, not mine. I don’t need to do anything but look at your view that you want “abortion on demand up to 9 months pregnancy”, as you said…”
            Well, now, obviously they are not my views, are they. You criticise me for being against abortion in all your other posts. And, well, that’s because I AM against abortion. Your position, however, isn’t clear at all.

            In fact, I begin to wonder whether it’s even very clear to you.
            I suspect you’re suffering from some kind of cognitive dissonance.
            Still, I’m glad you’ve come out AT LAST and said that you’re not in favour of abortion on demand up until 9 months. This means that you DO accept that women do NOT have an absolute control over their bodies.
            So – at what point do you think a woman should be made to continue her pregnancy?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, facts. As you say being Jewish is a “canard”, as you call me to task 100% simply for being a Jew.

            As you say hate preaching and denying Jews are Jews is “debate”. As you say for being a Jew is to be a “spittle-flecked nutties”. As you try and deny your repeatedly posted, 100% yours view. As you’re for post-birth abortion of those who don’t agree with you, likely, like other American extremists.

            My position is that of Jewish law, and you’ve rejected that because of your views.

            I’m not interested in your fantasies or engaging with a Jewhater like you.
            I am just going to keep pointing out the basis of your views – hating those born Jews. That “cognative dissonance”, for you and your view that your clear delight in wanting to murder women whose unviable fetuses which will kill them…and the women raped who you want to push into killing themselves and their baby…

            You took an absolutist stance, based entirely on hardline Dominion Theory views, it’s plain, and the anti-Jewish portion of that theology is among the nastiest threats in America today.

          • ardenjm

            Answer the question, Leon:
            At what point during her pregnancy do you think a woman should be made to continue her pregnancy?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Answer the question, ardenjm;

            Why do you hate people born Jewish?

          • ardenjm

            Answer the question, Leon. You try the jewhate thing on everyone you disagree with. It’s a broken record. You said you wanted to debate. So here’s the question you’re avoiding with your jewhate accusations:
            At what point during her pregnancy do you think a woman should be made to continue her pregnancy?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Answer the question, ardenjm.

            As you say facts – from your very post – are a “thing”, and say Jews are a “broken record”. I’d have debated with someone who wanted to debate, you’re just a Jewhater using excuses.

            As you try and dismiss facts as an “accusation”, same old New Anti-Semetic crap.

            Why do you hate people born Jewish again?

          • ardenjm

            “…you say Jews are a “broken record…”

            Now, Leon, I hate to break this to you but you are not, repeat not, ALL Jews. You’re not their embodiment, representative or delegate.
            You represent you.
            You’re Jewish, sure, but with a version of Judaism which doesn’t look like any other version I’ve encountered. And that’s fine because Judaism has some 15 million adherents and you are as entitled to your own crazy interpretations of your religion as anyone else is of theirs.
            But then you go and do this: “No, no! You can’t criticise ME because I’m Jewish THEREFORE you’re criticising me BECAUSE I’m Jewish.”
            So let me be clear: I’m criticising you BECAUSE you’re a scheiße – a cry-bullying, question-avoiding, liberal-fascist scheiße. You also happen to be Jewish. And that gives you a convenient stick with which to beat those who call you out on your views because you can like Baron Cohen’s excellently-observed Ali G character turn around and say, “You’re just saying that because I am Jewish.”

            No, Leon, I’m just saying that to you because you’re a scheiße. And if I could get away with using the English I would but the Spectator’s auto-censorship would click in and it wouldn’t post.

            So, answer the question: You believe the unborn has less value than the mother. You believe a woman has rights to control her body. But you CLAIM you don’t believe in full-term abortion. When, then, does the unborn child have a right to be born rather than aborted, Leon, and on what grounds? How do you justify that at all?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And yet you condemned all people born Jews. So.

            As you say those born Jewish…. as you criticise me for being born Jewish, period. Your denial of the Tanach is typical Jewhate nonsense, no more. As you scream I’m your sort of Fash, which is a hate lie… as you say I think beating people…nope, that’s you projecting, 100%.

            If you could preach hate against Jews more you’d do it, I hear you, as you attack me for holding Jewish views. As you then descend into fantasies, as you try and justify nothing more than Jewhate, pretending still to care about anything else when that’s all clearly a smokescreen.

            Facts about the Jewish view, which you’ve rejected in your anti-Jewish tirade, the “crazy” view you’re attacking, the “15 million” of your enemies;

            https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/abortion.html
            http://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/abortion

            And third question – why are you out to get Jews?

          • ardenjm

            “And yet you condemned all people born Jews. So.”
            Nope. That’s a pure invention on your part.
            Unless you’ve decided that those people whose memory I venerate and thank above don’t count as Jews in YOUR version of Judaism either? So, tell me, Leon, are you denying THEIR Jewishness? Shame on you if you are!

            “Your denial of the Tanach”
            Nope. Not denying the Old Testament. But your interpretation of it. You are not Moses, Leon.

            “you attack me for holding Jewish views”
            Nope. I showed you why not above. And I was right. You’re not the embodiment of Judaism, Leon. I attack you for YOUR views.
            The rest of your post is more of the mistake I’ve already called you out on:
            “No, no! You can’t criticise ME because I’m Jewish THEREFORE you’re criticising me BECAUSE I’m Jewish.”
            Let me be clear again: I’m criticising you BECAUSE you’re a scheiße – a cry-bullying, question-avoiding, liberal-fascist scheiße. Your jewishness is incidental to that.

            Now, back to the question you’ve been avoiding for a week:
            You believe the unborn has less value than the mother. You believe a woman has rights to control her body. But you CLAIM you don’t believe in full-term abortion. When, then, does the unborn child have a right to be born rather than aborted, Leon, and on what grounds? How do you justify that at all?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, so you deny your post. And you want us all dead, to “venerate” my people…right.

            As you say again that born Jews, that’s all Jews… you hate Jews period. As you decry the Tanach.

            As you note you’re to the right, as you attack me for being born Jewish.
            As you scream again I’m your sort of Fash, over and over, when the refuse to accept the Jewish answer and go for me precisely because I’m Jewish. This is core, 100% the problem you have, the fact I follow the traditional Jewish way of making decisions on moral issues.

            (But yet can’t realize I don’t want to push MY views against public health…)

            The relevant question is if you are in a position to threaten any Jews.

          • ardenjm

            “And you want us all dead, to “venerate” my people…right.”
            Nope.
            It doesn’t become true just because you carry on repeating it.

            “As you note you’re to the right, as you attack me for being born Jewish.”
            No Leon. I attack you for your views not your ethnic origins.

            “This is core, 100% the problem you have, the fact I follow the traditional Jewish way of making decisions on moral issues.”
            I’m not sure you do at all! You might think that you do but I doubt it. In any case: what on earth do you define as ‘traditional’ from a Jewish perspective? Are you a Haredi Jew? An Orthodox Jew? A Reformed Jew? A Liberal Jew? All of them claim their Jewish origins and have their beliefs and traditions. Why, there are even the Neturei Karta that claim to be more Jewish than anyone else but sound more anti-semitic than the odious Jean-Marie Le Pen.

            So, back to the question:
            You believe the unborn has less value than the mother. You believe a woman has rights to control her body. But you CLAIM you don’t believe in full-term abortion. When, then, does the unborn child have a right to be born rather than aborted, Leon, and on what grounds? How do you justify that at all?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your posts. You’re the one whining these things…

            As you attack my “views” – that is, the Jewish view. As you try and make excuses… ignore the very nature of Halacha!

            So, back to the question – how dangerous do I need to report you as? As you blame me for your beliefs, which you and only you are espousing here.

            Well, no, another relevant question – Expulsion or killing?

          • ardenjm

            “So you deny your posts.”
            No. I don’t deny my posts. All my posts are here, as I wrote them.
            YOU’RE the one that went back and systematically edited your posts – and thus denied everything you said. Probably because it was cryingly obvious that you had lost the argument. So you resorted to the final tactic of the cry-bully: appeal to victim status to silence legitimate criticism.
            Your monstrous narcisissm has also made you turn yourself into the representative of all Jews, the personification of Judaism, the incarnation of the Jewish Form. Except, you’re not.
            It’s not because you’re Jewish that I disagree with you, Leon. It’s because you are you. But, hey, I get to log off interacting with you online. You have to put up with yourself 24/7, 365 days a year, year in, year out.
            For you there is truly, “nothing new under the sun.”
            You have my pity.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you then make up nonsense about me, as you cry that hate is an argument…

            As you say hate is legitimate, as you whine at me for being Jewish…. you admit your posts, where you said that is. And I’m Jewish, yes, cry more. You pity…blah blah…

          • Bendys

            Only 15 million ?

          • ardenjm

            Only 15 million or so. Yup.

          • Bendys

            You wouldn’t think it, seeing that they’re everywhere.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, you’re discussing things with another account of yours again, IHHR. How sad.

          • ardenjm

            I’ve already dealt with this.
            Just the one account.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Responsibility for your actions should not involve murder Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Indeed, hence your beloved American far right murderers, who have slaughtered people for their anti-life views…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            What utter bullshyte. Do those rare incident outweigh the number of aborted babies?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, that excuse for murder on your part.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Do they Leon? You just don’t like the answer.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny the murders, and claim they’re the answer.

            Well.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Did I deny?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your post (again).

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I deny it.

          • vieuxceps2

            You confuse two matters,abortion and immigration.The latter will defer the problem of an ageing populaion but will not

          • ardenjm

            “You confuse two matters,abortion and immigration.”
            I clearly don’t since you connect them yourself. Here:
            “the people of England, basically unchanged for a thousand years, will become a different tribe”

            The indigenous population will be replaced for various reasons, central amongst them:
            1. They decided to kill or prevent such large numbers of their own children that their population didn’t replace itself and so their numbers went down.
            2. Others – who on the whole didn’t kill their own children – settled and simply gave birth to the future.
            Conclusion:
            “the people of England, basically unchanged for a thousand years, will become a different tribe”

            It aint complicated: We can’t not have our cakes and then expect no-one else to have theirs, either. If you see what I mean.

          • vieuxceps2

            Tell you what,let’s expel those already here and not let any more in. Then you can preach about abortion and the need to have children.
            If we do not do the former then we will die. Now you and any interested parties debate abortion.Not me,though. Please.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So, after you’ve purged millions and things are worse… who’s next when things get worse?

          • TartanTerrier

            Well written Sir…the aging population staying alive longer thanks to NHS and contraception/abortion is the death knell of the British people. Immigration- and massive at that- is the only hope……The Government just needs workers to pay tax to support the state – corporates/the mega rich don’t /won’t do it….!

          • mohdanga

            And yet the vast majority of immigrants take out way more than they contribute!! And when the immigrants grow old the solution is …..more immigrants! Brilliant!
            Not to mention parallel sharia societies, no-go zones, the loss of British culture, etc.
            If mass immigration is the answer why are debts, deficits, overcrowding, congestion, house prices, etc at record levels?

          • TartanTerrier

            No-one said running a country was easy.

          • TartanTerrier

            Not quite sure there is any evidence of any of that.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Not to mention allowing arbitration, air pollution (that’s whats causing no-go zones), the “loss” of your political ideology (then as now, as it has so few followers…)

            As you try and make things worse, while trying to hide Torynomics.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame women not being forced into a specific cultural role, in fact a role like that of the cultures you supposedly decry!

          • cmflynn

            You’re right on the whole but mistaken in your belief that Muslims will work in non Muslim care homes or be happy to pay for them. Muslims usually take the 4th Commandment, ‘Honour thy father and thy mother’, very seriously. This is what a lot of Muslim women who are out of the workforce are doing in the home. That and bringing their children up in ‘the faith’. But they feel no duty to care for other people’s mother and father especially the infidels’.

          • Damaris Tighe

            There are Muslim care workers but already there are cultural problems. In one care home it was reported that the Muslim carers refused to serve bacon sandwiches. Is there any other group whose members take jobs in the community and then refuse to abide by the tastes and preferences of the host population?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Well, far right workers refusing to serve people on the basis of their faith, but details!

        • teddywix
        • Leon Wolfeson

          The Tory-based economic destruction of marriage? Well. The fact people can’t stay at home is due to your beloved capitalism in the first place, but then you blame the Other and whitewash for the effects of your own ideologt.

          As you mindlessly blame “liberal” ideology… as you want to block the botders off, and to purge so many here…no more than 8-10 million in the claims I’ve seen… as you get confused when you’re the one trying for the capitalist hellhole, and as you act as a useful idiot for the rich while spouting supremacist whining.

          • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

            Broadmoor really is missing one of its inmates.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Well go back there then.

        • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

          Nice.

        • vieuxceps2

          Splendid!

        • cmflynn

          Why worry about overpopulation Cyril? You and your descendants will be exterminated, either by your own abortion/contraception/sterilization beliefs or in a religious war which is bound to be lost by the side which can no longer produce warriors.

        • mohdanga

          If native white English speaking women had 3 babies each would Mary dumb dumb advocate cutting Muslim immigration?? Not likely!!

      • Bonkim

        The earth is overpopulated – the answer is stop child and other benefits to those who breed copiously.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          So in fact raise poverty and this birth rates. Brilliant!

          If you want to reduce birth rates, take people out of poverty.

          • Bonkim

            Failed and failing societies should be allowed to disappear – it is for people to take themselves out of poverty – no one has an absolute right for a free lunch. Nature is harsh.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you want to eradicate the poor, elderly and disabled based on Social Darwinism.

            Hmm!

          • Bonkim

            Nature will eradicate the weak.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, you are not nature.

            The entire point of society and family structure is that we do not behave like lower orders of life (i.e. protozoa), or indeed very low-intelligence animals, but cooperate like the high-intelligence animals we are.

            Which includes, in places where there is civilization, taking care of those who are not in their prime, or have suffered misfortune.

            That very civilization and society is what social darwinists like you reject, wanting at best base animalistic behavior (and often persecution of many, in practice).

          • Noa

            ‘Failed and failing societies should be allowed to disappear…’-we are, and in the process of doing so we are being replaced by a more primitive theocratic globalism.

          • Bonkim

            What are you doing to fight back?

          • mohdanga

            They can be poverty stricken in their own countries, we don’t need to import them here and then pay for them to live in no-go zones. Try thinking.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I think your desire to create no-go zones for those not just like you, as you hate on British poor people, who are the targets of your friends there…

        • montyburns56

          Yes, but unfortunately our Ponzi pension system relies on a high birth rate.

      • johnb1945

        How does turning women into baby factories accord with your (presumed) liberal belief in control over one’s body and right to choice?

      • itbeso

        The answer is the complete opposite. Muslim women should be given equality including contraception.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Funny, can’t see other religions forcing people to use contraception.

      • Kingstonian

        Even by your standards Mary Ann, that is a totally asinine reply.

      • Yorkieeye

        Oh knock it off. We don’t need millions of people working in mills anymore. Where have you been? We need far fewer immigrants.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Except in the rich isolationist plan, that’s all England would have left! As you want only the rich to cross borders, right.

      • Freddythreepwood

        Ah! It’s Mary Ann, the baby factory now. Hope you are keeping your end up Mary, so to speak.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        No Mary Ann, that is not the cause. Importing an incompatible ideology and turning a blind eye to polygamy is the problem.
        The government could provide incentives for white English people to procreate tomorrow, but that is not part of the narrative of the new world order.

      • vieuxceps2

        Are you realy as brainwashed as your words imply? already ovecrowded so you ask not for less immigation but more indigenous births.Will you people never, ever lose your guilt and see that the presence of alien peoples is a threat to our existence? More babies forsooth! Lefty numbskull.

      • Speedy

        Perhaps the English don’t want to bring children up in a country that within a generation will look more like Pakistan than England. What future do out kids have? Sharia and persecution and civil war.

      • TruthBeTold

        The government actively brings in people who have high birth rates who can’t support their children without government aid. The White native population, acting responsibly by not having children they can’t afford, are forced to pay taxes for irresponsible people who have too many children.

        • mohdanga

          But, but, but….”the immigrants will help pay for our pensions and NHS.”.. or so the elite keeps telling us. Yes, non-contributing, social service sucking enrichers will help pay for the white English.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Well thanks Mr. Sucker.

      • Quest for Liberty

        It’s really not about race. It’s about culture.

      • mohdanga

        So because white women “choose not to have babies” means that millions of unassimilatable, non-contributing, aliens should be brought in?? Try thinking.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          No, you and your personalities should go home.

      • Speedy

        Actually, I think not importing millions of barbarians is a much better idea

    • Shazza

      What I have always found amazing is how the Left and the BBC worked tirelessly to destroy Apartheid in South Africa whilst enthusiastically promoting the same ideology in the UK.

      Separate Development is a euphemism for Apartheid
      Multiculturalism is a euphemism for Separate Development

      It is all about segregation – we are well on our way to being Balkanised with all the problems that is going to bring.

      • Mr B J Mann

        I Googled Ray Honeywell as I’m terrible with names and he’s the head who was suspended, and when he won his appeal driven to leave his job, as headmaster, for telling t truth about education way back in the 80s.

        What surprised me was not how long ago it was, nor the fact that his Bradford school was 85% Asian, 90% non white even then, but that Asian kids, even those born here, were being taught in Urdu?!?!?!!!!

        • Mike Breen

          I remember this very well. I was living about 100 meters from the school at the time.

      • William Matthews

        The Socialist/Marxist spirit of revolution is the answer. When the downtrodden underclass, regardless of who they maybe, as long as they aren’t white and vote Conservative or UKIP, will rise up against the tyrannical ruling classes, ideally white conservatives or members of UKIP, and seize power. The wet dream of every socialist-worker peddler since time immemorial. Most BBC employee’s start their career pushing Social Worker (at a very capitalist price i always noticed) while standing in the rain, with a Fair Trade mocha, and a chip on their shoulder the size of the Falklands.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          So you have no idea about Socialism, and think it’s a mirror of your ideology. Sigh.

          • William Matthews

            Haven’t you got a paper to be selling?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not after your job.

          • William Matthews

            Benefits pay more, right? Torys will fix that.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Funny, not on benefits.
            As you say the Tories will “fix” workers like me…

      • Leon Wolfeson

        No, I can’t see the left support you.

        As you claim allowing i.e. Sikhs and Jews in the country…

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          Not this one again Leon.
          Tell us please why you are such a fan of mass immigration.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Facts, again!

            And I don’t provide multiple personalities with data per policy, especially when they’re inventing things.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Usual pie eyed crp.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Usual pie eyed crp.”

            Then why post it?

        • Quest for Liberty

          I’m not completely sure what your trying to say but the Sikhs and Jews don’t seem to be causing as much trouble.

          • mohdanga

            Yes, maybe he should look at the comparison of Jewish Nobel Prize winners compared to those from Muslim countries.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Using Jews as an excuse for your views now….my my.

          • mohdanga

            What? Please explain your ramblings. A three year old makes more sense than you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You have very strange views about children, as you complain abour “rambling” because you refuse to read…

          • A Alan

            Leon Wolfeson is Doug the Head.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHYD83-sogE

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Mr. Doug the Head, no, I am not you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And yet they’re not White English, and hence…

    • But by then we will have allowed millions more of them to arrive here through abuse of family re-union rules (AKA marrying your five children to complete strangers as soon as possible after the age of 15) allowing Muslim men to import more than one wife, and very high fertility rate of Muslim women.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Millions more of THEM. The Other. Etc.

        As you say use is abuse… as you ignore birth rate trends…

        • Is this a code or are you just drunk? Ah – it’s the bot. It is still malfunctioning and producing random idiocy that means nothing.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Code”.

            Oh, right, your refusal to read English, as you admit your bot…

          • More meaningless nonsense. This stuff spewed out by a diseased robot is not English.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “More meaningless nonsense.”

            Yes, your stuff is. But you are posting in English with you bot, you’re confused.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Troll warning.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, thanks for warning people about you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            He’s a professional troll with the intellect of an amoeba.
            Careful. He’s like a black hole sucking you in.

          • Damaris Tighe

            As I found to my cost when I tried to be nice to him …

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Why be nice? Drag him through he brambles backwards. Don’t let him get away with anything. His vaccuous remarks look more childish with every repetitive post.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I didn’t know then what I know now (it was during one of his earliest forays onto this site). I concluded that he’s barking.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You concluded you do a imitation of a mental health professional, as you now know I’m a Jew, etc.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So be your sort of intolerant bigot, don’t allow other views, suppress all other posts with repeated wild accusations…. you talking to your other account there…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You have form Leon. A long and distinguished rap sheet

          • Leon Wolfeson

            …Of having different views from you? Exactly. Hence your right wing hate. Especially since I’m a Jew, right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define right wing hate. Does it mean the same as your interpretation of far right or is this a new term you may have heard.
            I don’t care a toss what your heritage is Leon. Your idiocy transcends all.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your far right, utterly unconvincingly trying to claim it’s not about my being Jewish, right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Try as you might Leon You are not going to make me become an anti Semite.
            You say I’m far right but won’t tell me what your definition of far right is.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I can’t “make” you into what you are, I agree, as you whine on, showing that hate!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Dodged again girlie. Define the term Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you’re a woman-hater as well, check.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            There are many words to describe you Leon. That response was pretty tragic.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, it was just another excuse on your part, woman-hater.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Should I call you leonetta from now on?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I was purely commenting on your hatreds.

            You’ll call me whatever you want, but thanks for another sexist whine from you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Sorry, butch it is then.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And your bigotry whines on.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Bigotry – intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.
            When you actually provide an opion on a point made in my or anyone else’s post let us know then I can decide if I feel bigoted towards you.

            I’m just trying to find out how to address you.
            The list is growing ever longer.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your ongoing tirades, check.
            And not reading other people’s posts, check.

            As you admit you have a list of your hatreds. And how you want to “address” me with your hate bigotry….

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’ve defined the term for you sunbeam, not sure how that is bigoted.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim your “defining” not being you as being unable to read…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            If only.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            PS, when I see your posts I start humming Green Day’s “Loss of Control”.

            (Your posts remind seem to hold a similar view to the lyrics, to be clear)

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’m perfectly controlled. Laughing at your senseless posts. Cue the capitalisation.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            It’s a song.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No 5h!t sherlock.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Nope, just saying you argue like an old woman.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you hate *old* women randomly…right, thanks for the clarification.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Depends if you are an old woman..

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, your ageist, sexist hate is relevant anyway.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Seethe away Muppet.
            (don’t tell me, that is hate against muppets)

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Abuse is not nice.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No,I don’t have your job.

        • whatever name

          Actually Muslims in Britain have a birth rate of 3 per woman, compared to a global Muslim average of 3.1 per woman and an overall British birth rate of 1.7 per woman. Muslims make up 6% of the British population and 12% of babies born. They double per generation as a proportion of Britain.

          Immigrants now make up 35% of babies born in the UK and they have risen by 1% per year as a proportion of the population for the last 20 years. Native Brits will be a minority of babies within 15 years. We have already lost our country.

          • TruthBeTold

            Responsible people only have as many children as they can support. Muslims simply have children unconcerned they’re responsible for supporting them; they know they will receive government funds without question.

            The Muslim birth rate would fall if they had to support their own children. It’s not THE answer but it’s part of the solution.

            We have already lost our country.

            As long as you’re alive and able to fight there’s hope. It will all depend on which side the government ultimately decides to support and if the native population can muster the courage to demand action.

          • “if the native population can muster the courage to demand action.” Well, that settles that one. I admire your optimism, Truthbetold.

          • Syeda Hussain

            My husband & I have worked hard to provide for our children, as do most people including Muslims I know.

          • mohdanga

            Is that why 50% of Muslim men and 75% of the women don’t work?? Check out the employment rates for Bangladeshis, Pakistanis and Somalians in the UK….bit of an eye opener.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yea, blaming people because you wouldn’t hire..

          • mohdanga

            KInd of hard to hire someone to work for me when I don’t have a business. But keep up you delusional ranting, it is comedic.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you’re a hypocrite, check.

            As you blame me for your posts, funny man!

          • Syeda Hussain

            I would like to know where those figures come from & figures that relate to British born muslims

          • mohdanga

            “Unemployment among ethnic minorities costs the economy almost £8.6 billion a year in benefits and lost revenue from taxes. Half of Muslim men and three quarters of Muslim women are unemployed.” http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8054403/Britains-coping-classes-at-breaking-point.html

          • Syeda Hussain

            I’m sure most of them are keen to work but maybe people of a certain mindset don’t offer them jobs

          • mohdanga

            Yes, of course, it must be “Islamophobia” at play. Or is it the “bigotry” of the British? Or is it the “racism” of the host population?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So stop discriminating in your hiring.

          • mohdanga

            I don’t have a business, you f*cking idiot! Plenty of other minorities seem to get hired, why not Muslims?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, you’re worthless in that view then, as you admit your targeted bigotry…

          • JohnJ

            you have a bint, Syeda? Can she marry anyone she chooses (as it says in the law of England)? Can her children be of any religion the parent choose? That is the law in England – so judging by your other posts you have muy mushlikka ( no problem) with that.

          • Opinionated

            John, why do you insist of targeting Syeda in your posts?
            Muslim men may marry any woman from the three books, but Muslim women cannot, they must marry only another Muslim, this is to maintain the integrity of Islam, and is also cultural.
            Any child born to a Muslim father is Muslim.
            This is not the fault of Syeda or any one else it is just the way it is, and if you don’t like it then that is just bad luck, nothing else.
            I don’t think the Jews marry outside their religion either, so what.
            Birds of a feather stick together, and all that.

          • JohnJ

            Yep, perfectly compatible with freedom in Western society. Thank you for telling the readers the facts.
            I don’t target anyone – it is a discussion. If Sayeedah Syeda can’t justify her claims then don’t join a forum and make them.
            Anyway why are you defending her? Isn’t Islam strong enough to defend itself without you? Surely you are not acting as white knight from the guilt of 30 years of helping Qaddafi and other monsters in the Middle East. ( now that is an example of targeting)

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you argue most poor people shouldn’t have kids?
            Then magically blame Muslims.

            As you think increased child poverty, which *raises* birth rates….

            As you pretend your political ideology is anything but that.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And the trend in the next generation? Right.

            As you fantasize… (And when were your far right in control here?)

        • mohdanga

          Because Muslim countries would allow millions of non-Muslims to settle in their countries, support them, and tell the host Muslim culture that their culture is worthless and they must embrace the “other”. Keep up with your delusions.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I’m not spouting off your delusions, as you hate i.e. Jews like me, and as you hate on the inclusive British culture…

      • montyburns56

        That’s the reason why the Tories brought in those new rules about the income of foreign spouses who are allowed into the country, which is having some impact on that kind of immigration. Really they should have just blocked foreign spouses from South Asian countries, but then they would have been labelled as racists so they had to introduce this blunt tool.

        • Quest for Liberty

          You really think the Tories care about decreasing immigration?
          I don’t – I think they are largely economically privileged people and aren’t much affected by it, and what’s more it helps the economy.

          Meanwhile, the Labour Party which is supposed to represent the Working class is filled with those who would do away with borders and pander to Islam for votes (and let’s face it, when we say failure of multiculturalism, we mean failure of Muslim: the Sikhs are fine, African Christians are often productive members of society, the Indians and the Jews etc. aren’t causing grief).

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame not hating people foe their religion… as you try and excuse away the fact that supporting a monoculture means ALL other cultures are the problem for you, trying to target one first…

        • Leon Wolfeson

          The blunt tool is banning families.

    • Speedy

      This country is finished, as is the rest of western Europe.

      • cmflynn

        Probably but not necessarily. It took 770 years to end Islamic rule in Spain but it happened and Muslins are not even in control in the UK or Europe yet. Mean the abandonment of ‘Enlightenment’ ideals by the elite though. Not much sign of that yet.

        • Quest for Liberty

          We’d be fine if we didn’t have cultural Marxism and apathy. Indeed, there are many morons out there who want to believe Muslims are just like us – perhaps they could be but they certainly aren’t now and won’t be if we continue down a path of denial.

          • cmflynn

            Unfortunately they are not all morons. The weekend BEFORE the Paris attacks of Nov 13 I was talking to a Maths teacher from North London. ‘Roughly what proportion of your students are Muslim these days?’
            ‘Oh I don’t know. How should I know?’ (She could know very easily from their names)
            ‘Well, what proportion of your girl students wear headscarves in class?’
            ‘Oh there are some I suppose but I don’t take any notice. It’s not relevant.’
            This was an intelligent woman but so brainwashed by political correctness that she could no longer even ‘see’ let alone try to deduce the consequences of the change in demographics developing before her eyes.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            most likely she’s so overworked (last most state school teachers are) that the last thing she’s got time for is counting how many students wear headscarves in all her classes

          • mohdanga

            Yes, because someone wearing a hijab is so unnoticeable. If a white kid wore baseball hat you can be sure she would notice.

          • cmflynn

            Yes, that’s exactly her excuse for not noticing. How did you know?

          • mohdanga

            Wait until she’s asked to wear a hijab (“not relevant”) by the frothing parents of the non-existent Muslim students….

          • cmflynn

            Not likely, she has plans to go and live somewhere along the south coast soon. White flight? No just thinks it would be nicer in some vague (unmentionable) way.

          • Quest for Liberty

            Not noticing is not a problem at all – the issue is believing that Muslims are nothing special in the beliefs they hold.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you think bigotry based on names… when many names you might consider “Muslim” are simply foreign. You wonder why people don’t discriminate on dress…don’t consider people lesser for the reasons you do.

            You want embedded discrimination, you’re the PC one here, as you decry teaching those not just like you…

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, so the Marxism in your head…as you try and link the far right and all Muslims…which is silly, your denial…

    • Syeda Hussain

      Isis treats everyone the same muslims & non-muslims in Iraq & Syria

    • OmnipotentWizard

      There were similar programs in the 1970/80s about Black Youth with similar results. Those black youths are now responsible middle-aged people.
      I’ve seen it all before.

  • Jojje 3000

    This is not the case of Muslims being rude, it is us being naive and stupid.

  • D J

    Sura 9.5

  • jack

    “18 per cent sympathise with people who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet”

    Islam is a cult and has cult followers who will hurt you for trying to speak the truth about what is obviously the root problem with Islam.

    You cannot openly discus anything that could easily break Islam such as; how can a person be the most supreme ideal man if he could not read or write, murder husbands and enslave their wives, murder all those that would provide wisdom and philosophy to the world, and rape children…

    In short, how do we get the message across that 2 billion people might be following the teachings of a psychopath and that half a billion of them will want someone to kill or maim you for pointing out the obvious.

    • Mary Ann

      18% sympathise, which means that 82% don’t, that is a large majority.

      • lms2

        And you don’t need many to completely disrupt a society. You don’t need anything like a majority to bring about terror, violence, distrust, etc. After all, it only took 4 men, just 4, to kill 52 people, injure many more, and bring the capitol city to a halt.

      • Norbert

        Well, that’s comforting. If I offend the Prophet in front of an audience of 100 Muslims, only 18 will want to kill me.

        Maybe the other 82 will pray for me at my funeral?

      • Cyril Sneer

        No Mary, that is a huge minority.

      • jack

        I don’t think you understand what 18% of 2 billion is.

      • beelzebub

        I know you are well meaning, but it’s not your fault you know.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          She’s not well meaning. She’s idiotic.

      • Can you now work out what 18% of four or five million is in absolute numbers and then see how many traitors and villains we have to deal with please? Even the 4% who agree with suicide bombing translates into 100,000 dangerous people. Militant stupidity which you persist in espousing is not a pretty trait Mary Ann.

        • SonOfGud

          she’d wet her knickers even if 18% of British people wanted to join the non-terrorist organisations, EDL or BNP.
          she probably cries about the fact that UKIP got 13% of the GE vote.

      • johnb1945

        I would agree that this is a reason to be hopeful and suggest it is all to play for, but 18% of 3 million is > 500,000 people. That’s a city like Manchester or Sheffield.

        And these beliefs are corrosive. Ideologically, violence against someone for offending your belief is not far removed from violence against someone because they do not share your belief. Extremism is always relative. Christian extremism is relatively non-violent because mainstream Christianity has strongly pacifist tendencies.

        If the Islamic mainstream has, by contrast, a place for violence, its extremes will be even more violent.

        I think if 18% of adherents hold a belief, then this belief is reasonably mainstream. It’s on the fringe of the mainstream at best.

      • Hybird

        18% admit that they sympathise. Many, many more will have lied to the pollsters.

      • Anna Bananahammok

        This would only be true, if most Muslim-majority countries were peaceful.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        No Mary Ann, I am sick of hearing the bullshyte from cultural Marxist mouthpieces such as yourself. 1% would be too many. The idiocy of the elite and their dumb minions is threatening our very survival.

        • SonOfGud

          yeah.. don’t forget, since about 75% of Germans never joined the n4zi party, they made all the difference… and WW2 must’ve just been a figment of the ‘right-wing’ imagination.

      • mohdanga

        Muslims make up about 10% of France’s population, any problem with them?? No violence or terrorist attacks, are there?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          France has the very sort of separation and indeed segregation you are trying to cause.

          • mohdanga

            You mean like the segregation of the 7/7 bombers? Raised in England, given all that England has to offer, yet still see a need to kill their own countrymen. Should string them up for treason.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Treason has a specific meaning.

            And why do you think more extremism is good, again?

    • red2black

      “You cannot openly discuss…” That’s what you’re doing here. As far as I’m aware, the Spectator website is open to all.

      • lms2

        And this is one of the few places that you can. Although I notice that David Lammy’s piece here today doesn’t appear to allow any comments. Other online news outlets like the BBC, Telegraph, Guardian etc, either don’t allow any comments or severely restrict them.

        • red2black

          That’s up to them. The more open discussions there are, the better.

      • jack

        It can never be openly discussed in any Muslim forum, centre, mosque, debate or in idle chit chat because of fear. It’s the fear of being harmed that prevents even the Muslims who don’t quite believe in the commands of Islam from ever speaking out.

        To many adherents, it’s a Mafia code of conduct.

        • red2black

          That’s right. It’s a feature common to all authoritarian and totalitarian religious and political ideologies.

      • Mr B J Mann

        So is the Mail’s.

        But go to it, do a search for the hundred of articles on Srebrenica, and then try to find a single one that allows comments!

        • red2black

          https://bgdw.wordpress.com/
          ‘Leave a Response’ tag at bottom of first page.
          (after about three minutes)

          • Mr B J Mann

            Hmmmmmmmm

            There’s as much point in leaving a response at the bottom of and endless “Bosnian Genocide Denial Watch” webpage as there is of leaving one at bottom of and endless “Global Warming Denial Watch” webpage!

            What I’d like to post st the Mail is something like:

            In peacetime, high tech, first world New York around 10,000 people were reported missing after 9/11.

            The final death toll was around 3,000.

            In war-torn, low tech, second (third?) world Kosovo around 125,000 people were reported missing by the US special ambassador as justification for NATO intervention.

            By the end of the war the figure had risen to 250,000 to 500,000.

            The final death toll was around 4,000.

            In the rout of the Bosniak garrison town, of Srebrenica, which followed the secret redeployment of the entire officer corps behind the main Bosniak lines, plus a large number of troops (by some estimates several thousand men): up to 8,000 men and “boys” were reported missing.

            The final death toll?

            Over 8,000 men and “boys”!

            Go figure?!

            The only military action in history where the final death toll exceed the reported missing?!?!

            Oh and the Bosniaks had discussed with the Western powers needing a massacre of at least 5,000 to get the Western public on side.

            But even if they allowed posts on a Srebrenica article, I doubt if that would be let through by the mods as they seem to be extremely pro the Mujahadeen/ jihadi/ KLA/ Saudi-US/ Clinton interests when it comes to the Balkan wars!

          • red2black

            Sorry, you’ve lost me a bit with this. The Balkans conflict was confusing at the best of times.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            It’s the conspiracy theory about the press as usual, sigh.

            (But, well, which Balkans conflict? Pick a century. Soo not joking. Really, the area’s a mess)

      • Bill Kendall

        Look what happened to the Muslim newsagent in Glasgow, for ‘discussing’ Easter on Facebook, look what happened to the Charlie Hebdo staff for ‘discussing’ Mohamed.

        • red2black

          Exactly. There will always be some who think their political and religious beliefs are more important than people.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          And look what the fanatics here want to do to all Muslims as they engage in PC bigotry – regardless of what they actually think and believe, where if that sort of view was policy they’d have nowhere to turn but extremism!

          Where’s your condemnation of the recent violence in NI, btw?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Nonsense as usual.
            Kicking out Islamic extremists and making it very difficult for anyone with such view to operate within our society is sensible and an absolute requirement Leon.
            We should not have to tolerate a violent and intolerant ideology within our midst.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Nonsense as usual.”

            Your call to not tolerating you… oh wait, no, you’re absolutely fine with your violent and intolerant ideology, and are just after all Muslims again.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Read the comment again muppet!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Why are you talking to yourself?

          • mohdanga

            Yes, deporting those that want to kill us is the equivalent of Muslims killing us for offending them. Back to your sandbox.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, I’m sure you want to deport me in your fantasies, as you show you are actually after simple disagreement..

    • Shazza

      Islam is an authoritative, tyrannical ideology which masquerades as a religion. It is committed to establishing a world wide society/caliphate which submits to its 7th century Dark Age beliefs. Islam does not mean ‘peace’ it means ‘submission’ – peace being brought about by koranically mandated exhortation by whatever means to ‘revert’ everyone thus achieving their version of ‘peace’.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Yes, Islam’s so much nicer than you isn’t it. Oh well.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So you have no idea about cults… as you ignore the fact you’re spewing hate here fine… as you ignore the fact you’re following your own teachings…

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        No Leon. This is a reaction to a threat.

        • SonOfGud

          the fact that LW cannot understand this simple concept, suggests that one is best just ignoring his comments.
          he may then go somewhere else with his cretinous accusations

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Unfortunately he doesn’t go away. It is better to rip him a new one. It’s more fun.

          • SonOfGud

            a fair point …
            enjoy the thrill of the troll hunt

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your desire for violence…

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Yes, you see someone not like you and feel it’s a threat. Like other thugs.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I see an invasion across Europe by an Islamist ideology a threat. Don’t you?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes. Of course, your far right are also a threat.

            And Islamist is not equivalent to Muslim.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define the term far right Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Grant me what I whine about constantly, in my determination to show how extreme I am”.

            No.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Then do not use that term in reference to me again, unless you define it.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, be censored from using the facts about your espoused ideology unless I pander to you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define the term of you are using it when referring to me. If you won’t then don’t.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, pander to you rather than going with the facts based on your espoused ideology and the repeated, repeated amping up of my view of your extremism with your wriggling.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You’ve provided no facts or definition to which you assert. I am unable therefore, to accept your wild accusation.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny my posts exist, as you say your posts are “wild accusations”, as my post was based on them!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Your posts are baseless as usual.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So as they’re based on yours, you’re claiming YOUR posts don’t exist.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Ah, you got me. And their I was thinking it was you with your usual outpouring of verbal diarrhea.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you don’t think and just chant hate, right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Poor little snowflake.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, as you’ve said, Mr. Snowflake. And my post?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Is still utter drivel and therefore irrelevant.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, you dismiss posts because they’re not by you. Right, have to remember your self-centered nature.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            If you say so flowerpot.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your talking to yourself is sad.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’m surprised the teachers allow you to post during class time. What is it today, literacy key stage 1?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, more random wild childhate from you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            It must be. Ah well.

  • Tim Greening-Jackson

    I note that the Guardian actually dismissed the programme as being inaccurate two days before it was even broadcast. The dhimmi left will continue to be in denial I’m afraid.

    • Cyril Sneer

      Yep, Mary Ann above being a case in point.

    • stuartMilan

      they’re so heavily invested in their position by now that they really have no alternative, and it’s costing them their readership

    • k-dog

      The BBC did far worse, openly mocking and ridiculing the story and describing Tommy Robinson as ,”a disgraced former leader leader of the EDL” when he is no such thing. It is the BBC administration themselves who are disgraced by this and countless other stories when the choose to lie by omission or simply just lie to promote their narrative, which could be neatly summed up as…. “Muslims are the victims, anyone who says otherwise are racists.” – BBC HQ

      • Leon Wolfeson

        So you deny what happened to him? Hmm!

        As you then try and put your words in the mouth of the BBC, showing your and not the BBC’s PC.

      • OmnipotentWizard

        I wonder what drug you were on when you imagined this?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Now now. If he was on a drug that’s an excuse.
          He’s just nasty.

          • OmnipotentWizard

            A good cure for his nastiness would be to find any building which is taller than ten stories and then throw himself off.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            See, I can’t support that sort of language. He’s still a person.

            If you’d suggested a tax audit, now…

    • Leon Wolfeson

      You’re not a leftist.

  • TRAV1S

    The real scandel here is Trevor Phillips’ admission of the Labour Party’s policy of “silence-for-votes” in Rotherham and Rochdale. A personification of the Labour Party would be that sleazy pimp in Taxi Driver.

    • Fraser Bailey

      Trevor Philips is admitting that Labour covered up Rotherham for votes is progress of sorts. Remember,
      Labour = Sharia.

      • red2black

        Scandals don’t stop people supporting religious and political ideologies. Despite what Hitler and Stalin were responsible for, there are still plenty of people who support their respective agendas.

        • Bonkim

          Did you know there are many Sharia Judges?

          • red2black

            I don’t know how many, or what they’re judging (?)

          • Leon Wolfeson

            …In countries with it’s law? Sure.

            Judges in this country use British/Welsh or Scottish law. Right.

            (If you’re getting confused because of arbitration services…)

          • Bonkim

            You have to differentiate between the formal and informal social and cultural norms and also established state systems. Do a little research and you will find who the Sharia judges are.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I don’t need to pander to you. You were wrong, and I provided links.

        • There are about 75 Sharia courts operating in Britain. Did you see the documentary last night old chap? A Muslim Yemeni Lawyer who has sat in on dozens of their hearings described her horror that women were being treated as perpetual minors in need of male guardianship, that women who were divorced were being deprived of the care of their children if they ever re-married and that the courts were enforcing judgements in line with THE MOST fundamentalist form of Islam and that they would fit neatly alongside worst forms of Islamic judgement handed down in her native Yemen. Please try and view the programme on catch up.

          • red2black

            Thanks for that. Which channel and programme? I was enjoying the footy.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Channel 4 ‘What British Muslims Really Think’, 13 April, presented by Trevor Phillips.

          • red2black

            Ta.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Oh, so a headline of lies… right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Not really Leon. It’s just you as a Muslim sympathizer cannot handle the truth and retreat to your victim status.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So because I don’t automagically hate all Muslims you demand I be a victim, and scream that your hate is the only truth.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You are a sympathiser then?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “sympathizer”

            I don’t blame people for views they don’t hold.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Yes sympathise. I suggest you also look that up.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I did. What I said stands – I don’t support extremism. Islamists, yours… your accusation is utterly wrong.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Whatever that car crash of a sentence means.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yea, you can’t be bothered to read English or realize I’m not an extremist.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            That’s better. A well formed sentence. This is the future Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, your hate is not the future.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            So you just see hate wherever you look. I think it is you who has the problem Leon and a massive chip on your shoulder it seems.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I don’t feel as you do. As you want to be a problem, right, and talk about the axe you want to take a chip out of my shoulder with.

            I am not your sort of collectivist…it’s you, personally.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Utter rubbish as usual

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, you chose to post your rubbish, utterly out of context with the discussion in your hate of debate.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Ironic much? You could look up the meaning of the word context whilst you try to find a definition of far right.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Or I could use the facts and note your threats of violence unless those not like you are purged.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I challenge you to provide a shred of evidence that I have threatened violence in my post Leon. Go on. Humour us all.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So your personalities deny your posts. And claim facts “humour” – that is, pander to them.

            So, no, Fash. Your sort of violent thug, calling for suppression of all not like you… your posts exist.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            So no link or quote. Thought so, you lightweight.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I’m not like you.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            That’s original.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Facts don’t need to be original. I’m not a radical and only use violence in self-defense, for instance.

            Whereas you called…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            The only omission is your facts. A little like the abominable snowman. Only seen by conspiracy theorists and lunatics.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your belief in the abominable snowman…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Is a figment of your imagination.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            …is from my mocking your whining.

          • http://www.channel4.com/programmes/what-british-muslims-really-think/on-demand/62315-001

            You will have to watch a few adverts and probably have to give an email address to watch, But there it is.

          • red2black

            Ta.

          • Maureen Fisher

            Also that women commented that they’ve come here to get away from all that and it’s worse here than “at home.”

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, of course, the Tories here are making things economically worse, and?

          • mohdanga

            Which shows how interested in assimilating in the West. If my “home” was some 3rd world sh*thole I wouldn’t be too interested in calling it “home”.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you’re not aware of the concept of arbitration.

          • Of course; arbitration is not the problem. The problem as the Yemeni lady lawyer pointed out was that the courts she has sat in on for months are operating in a grotesque manner – as I pointed out in my post – treating women as helpless minors who need to be controlled by men, and handing down extraordinary backward judgements which violate British law since it requires fair judgements of arbitrating bodies.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you admit your target is not a problem.

            And rulings which are actually incompatible with British law can’t be enforced. So.

            Couple of relevant links;

            https://fullfact.org/law/uks-sharia-courts/
            http://www.law.cf.ac.uk/clr/Social%20Cohesion%20and%20Civil%20Law%20Full%20Report.pdf#page=17

          • Shut up spam bot. You should be disconnected. Don’t tell em what I ‘admit’ – your diseased software made that up. I will not engage with illogical robots that invent words and claim they are mine.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You blame me for using your bot, as you say you want to murder me, as you whine about facts and say that I have a diseased mind, as you refuse to engage with your own bot…

            Your pretend-hate of Sharia, when your target is clearly Beis Din…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Pull your plug out Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, pointless actions which can cause damage…no, I’ll leave those to you.

          • Ha ha ha ha ha h ah ah ah ah The bot spews more anti-logic.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, your bot is, as you blame me for your issues.

            As you talk about “helping” those with other views with drugs, like other totalitarian maniacs.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Can you just shut up with your ridiculous and inane interjections? My nine year old has more sense than you. People are trying to have a serious discussion here which you, as usual, are trying to derail.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Can facts go away, those “ridiculous and inane interjections”, as you talk about your scared victim… who won’t dare speak up near you… as you want a serious echo chamber of hate, how dare the mere truth come into things!

            Fact; Arbitration, under the arbitration act…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            What a feckin moron. I get more sense out of my nine year old. He’d run rings around you

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Mr. Moron, your ability to persuade your a nine year old into approving whatever you say…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            He can think for himself, unlike you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, so you say your control of his thoughts…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            These unfinished sentenc………….

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you’re not aware of the meaning of …

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Yeah it means omission or falling short. Quite apt with your posts actually.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Why are you blaming me for your posts?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Rolls eyes!

        • foxoles

          Yes, and one of them is the subject of this review. Trevor Phillips kept a bust of Lenin on his desk.

          • red2black

            I kept an old Pottery night-class project on mine. Using clay, were asked to make a model of Yogi Bear from memory. After about an hour the teacher came round and judged our efforts. She said my model was far too short and fat, and I’d forgotten his hat. After a moment’s reflection I had to admit it – I’d made a Boo Boo.

        • TheJustCity

          ..he protested weakly.

          • red2black

            I’d have thought that a bank the size of Lloyd’s offering Sharia-compliant services might have been a concern, but never mind.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Why?

          • red2black

            As far as people who are concerned about an Islamic take-over are concerned.
            The thin end of the wedge sort of thing.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            It’s simply ridiculous. Banks, multinational banks, are going to try to appeal to Islamic customers, especially because of the City – there’s a lot of Islamic-backed finance going round there.

            Moreover, *entirely* legal things that private companies do…

            (And of course how does exclusion help, precisely, except to help extremist recruitment?)

          • red2black

            As ‘JustTheCity’ – who I originally replied to, might see it – rather than you or me.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Well, you asked a question, and I answered it from my POV.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Remember, Labour’s far, far too nice for Bailey, as he talks about his fantasies and how most crime is fine and dandy!

    • Bonkim

      and in Tower Hamlets where the local system is corrupt following Bangladeshi tradition.

      • Brian Jones

        It’s perhaps time that Shariah courts were banned and those taking part in them being charged with what they are actually doing which is perverting the course of justice.

        • Bonkim

          Simple to not recognize any rulings of illegal/informal systems by not offer any social security and other benefits needed by those involved and arising from accepting their cultural norms. As an example any medical condition arising from FGM, etc, those suffering should be asked to pay, similarly where inherited diseases caused by close family marriages, etc. People should be made to suffer the consequences of their actions and beliefs.

          British courts should reject anty arrangements arising from these informal and backward systems.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So strip people of benefits based on hate. Make the victims pay. Blame sufferers for rare genetic diseases…

            Your informal and backwards hate has been rejected, thankfully.

          • Bonkim

            Nothing to do with hate – people have to be responsible for their situation particularly arising from the choices they make. Why should other responsible taxpayers pay for the folly of the minority? Cutting out child benefit for more than 2 children is an eminently sensible thing to do given that populations are exploding across the globe and resources running out. May be families should be rationed to one child – that way populations would start reducing.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, the poor must be blamed for being born poor. As you say the 99% are a minority… as you say high child poverty is eminently sensible, which is a measure which will increase birth rates and inter-generational poverty.

            (That’s what poverty does. If you want to reduce birth rates, reduce poverty)

            As you call for China’s failed system of force…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            We’d reduce poverty by reducing the number of poverty stricken arriving in the country who will contribute nothing to society once they are here.
            Harsh but eminently fair.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, so you’ll murder babies? My my.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            An idiotic comment. But I should point out it is you who supports abortion if I remember rightly.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, you are Mr. Idiot, as I support not having women die of backstreet abortions.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I support babies not dying as a result of idiotic self serving women.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you support, what, taking babies away from the 99%? Hmm.

            You’re happy for the women to die, check.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Idiot. How about people taking some personal responsibility and some precautions before having to resort to murder. If they are incapable of that then maybe close their legs or keep the little general in their pants.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Mr. Idiot – yes, please to take that responsibility, and quit your far right.

            As you blame rape victims, for starters…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I think you’d find pregnancy through rape is one of the rare instances when abortion is palatable and always was. Note the term “rare”

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Except the blanket claim here did not in any way shape or form allow it for that.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No it’s you leftist degenerates who devalue life and celebrate abortion, by removing the safeguards.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, spew PC at the left for not wanting women dead in back alleys thanks to unsafe backstreet abortions.

            As I note your very clear your blanket claim, which includes raped women…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You prefer dead babies.
            My blanket claim as you put it excluded raped women , but comprehension was never your strong point.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I don’t support your views.

            As you try and backpeddle again. And given your views, let’s ask this – do you deny rape exists?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No I don’t, but did I not say that abortion for women made pregnant through rape was one of the rare instances where abortion may be justified.
            Try reading for a change.
            If you as quick in bed as you are at jumping to conclusions it explains why your missus ran off with the milkman.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You changed your tone from an absolutest stance after I pointed something out.
            I’m sure you’d also justify it for “my family”, for instance.

            As you confuse your situation with mine, it appears. I offer absolutely no sympathy at all. To you, anyway.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Righto chief, my missus says you are a tool as well.
            As for you family, I wager your mother is overcome with regret on a daily basis when she sees you. “How could this specimen have come from me”, rings through her mind every single day

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So someone not there says… and you can make your £100 donation to MSF, as you lose.
            (Or are you a liar?)

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Not really chum it’s only worth 1p. It was a 50:50 chance. You Should have named the price in advance. You brought family into it. Never mind.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, so you’re a liar.

            Right. As you try and blame me for your post about wives.
            Non-payer, you need a good tax audit.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Nope . I’ll give 1p to any charity. In fact I will in the morning on my way to work.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Right, so you’re a liar. Confirmed.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You never named a price. 1p is for your efforts is more than enough.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You break the law you pay the price. First cousin marriage is illegal in this country, yet all too common in the Muslim community.
            Hence the rise in birth defects .

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Hence, you say something you don’t know about… and blame kids for their parents, in fact.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            How am I blaming kids? Their parents should know they’re closely related by blood.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you don’t look at who you’re victimizing…etc.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Quite a bold accusation. Care to explain.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, commenting on your post…
            And no.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            They you go. Leon never explains himself.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Except when I do, except you reject my answers, so…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            So that’s why you don’t?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And there you go, rejecting my answer. Again.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            More people should.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, of course you want more fact-rejecting extremists like you.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, so ban arbitration and charge people for daring to use the arbitration act, charged for being people you hate…

          • Brian Jones

            Arbitration , as you are well aware, is completely different to Shariah law but if it keeps you happy to be deliberately opposed to almost anything that is posted on these pages keep it up, far be it from me to spoil your infantile fun.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Except that’s where Sharia is used. As you blame me for your posts.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Yes, far too clean for you.

    • Pugida UK will be in Rotherham on May 25. If you care, be there.
      Co-Leader Tommy Robinson was acquitted today.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Thanks for the warning for normal people to plan on evacuating!

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          If you are the new normal. God help us all.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Does Satan help you a lot?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’m tempted to let my 9 year old reply to you later. I’m just concerned you’d drag him down to your level of ineptitude

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, I might contaminate your little dear with, well, facts.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Doubt it very much. You’ve not produced one yet.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you don’t read my posts, right.

  • Fraser Bailey

    No mention of this on Al BBC’s 5Live this morning. Funny that. I guess they are more interested in the way that Marcus Rashford has integrated into Man U’s front line.

  • thomas_paine2

    For goodness sake, let’s just celebrate our new and exciting diversity.

  • Damaris Tighe

    I was pleased that the programme translated percentages that sounded small into absolute numbers. If I remember correctly, 4% with very hard line views on a particular topic was equivalent to 100,000 people. This reinforces my view that the root of the problem is the large size of the muslim community. If it were 4% of a few thousand there wouldn’t be social ramifications.

    The same applies to integration. If a small percentage of a small community (eg the Chinese) kept themselves to themselves and lived parallel lives outside our culture, Trevor Philips would not have feared them creating a ‘nation within a nation’. It all comes down to numbers and successive British governments’ policy of allowing mass immigration, facilitating the chasm within society he described. Where a culture is separatist and supremicist, large numbers create confidence and entitlement, and sustain their alternative universe.

    Under the spell of multiculturalism, governments saw only isolated individuals who could be absorbed into the globalist borg, not the reality of social, cultural and religious ties that bind.

    • Bonkim

      Larger the absolute numbers more emboldened the minority that wish us harm. These can find safe houses and disappear in the crowd unnticed until the day they choose to strike.

    • foxoles

      Will someone please explain this in words of one syllable to Mary Anne, above? She dismisses huge numbers with a wave of her hand.

      • Damaris Tighe

        I’ve given up.

      • Conway

        One cannot explain anything to Mary Anne; she lives in her own world where reality does not intrude.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          She actually lives in France which is why she is so out of touch.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And you live in Hateland, and?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            New one on me. Point to it on a map Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, I need to show you where you stand now.

    • beelzebub

      I think its also true that the larger the numbers, the more confident they become about challenging the host culture and asserting their own.

    • jamesdelingpole

      Damaris, can you not see it’s a bit discourteous to write the phrase “If I remember correctly, 4% with very hard line views on a particular topic was equivalent to 100,000 people” when the figure is spelled out in the review you have theoretically read.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Sorry James, it’s behind a paywall and I wasn’t able to read the whole review. I no longer subscribe for reasons I’d better not go into here. I apologise for any discourtesy. Perhaps I’d better not comment at all if I can’t read the complete review.

    • johnb1945

      Where a culture is separatist and supremicist, large numbers create confidence and entitlement, and sustain their alternative universe

      Phillips said this directly, to his credit. Islam is aggrandising and separatist.

      Another massive issue is the de rigeur nihilism and entitlement of the utilitarian, secular orthodoxy which afflicts the rest of society. It creates a perfect vacuum for an assertive, Utopian ideal that offers justice, fairness and riches while making victimhood a quality and legitimising violence.

      I’d be concerned about Trevor Phillips’s suggestion of, for example, quotas in Schools. Our “don’t believe in nothing ‘cept myself” generation of youth would have few defences against the lure of Islam. If I were a teenager and I’d had no exposure to the Judeo-Christian tradition of my forebears and no real boundaries, I would see the attraction of an exacting, simplistic and ritualistic religion with a strong sense of destiny and element of identity. It’s basically a gang that does God from a teenage perspective.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Re your last paragraph, that was exactly my thought. I started posting about their strong boundaries (in all the wrong places!) versus our culture’s lack of boundaries about 3 years ago but it wasn’t very well received. I think people (even conservatives) wanted a simple them v us narrative, with us being on the side of all that is good and healthy.

        You’re spot on about the lure of Islam for young people. And our post-Christian society has absolutely nothing to offer that will counter it. It’s a shame, because if young people want ritual, a rule of life. and moral boundaries it’s all there in traditional Christianity, but with much more subtlety. Only a few decades ago children were still introduced to this tradition. Now they’re not given anything apart from empty pc slogans.

        • johnb1945

          Sadly I think this argument is lost for now.

          My liberal friends tell me the solution is atheism, one even suggested “forced conversion” to atheism!

          So I asked him to conduct a little thought experiment and imagine me, on my knees, his gun at my head.

          “Are you an atheist?” he asks.

          “Yes. A cultural Muslim atheist who believes in Sharia.” I answer.

          What’s he going to do now? I’ve met his conditions to spare my life.

          Apart from the fact that it’s scary to hear people suggesting this kind of thing, it underlines the fact that we do need some clear universal values to which we all aspire. Otherwise our culture offers nothing, there is literally noting to make it coherent.

          The Judeo-Christian tradition is the framework in which our values evolved. It’s a mistake to turf them out or disparage them……

          • Conway

            I’ve been saying this for a while. Christianity has been sidelined, but nature abhors a vacuum. What fills it will not be enlightened atheism, as the anti-Christian mob think, but a nasty, vicious, intolerant ideology that is as inimical to atheism as it is to Christianity and other religions.

      • TheJustCity

        The irony is, Islam is a religion in which the individual, the heroic rebellious outsider is condemned. Religions like Christianity, Buddhism, et al, inculcate a credo; they endow a personal conscience from which the individual can meditate on matters and decisions from an independent moral standpoint. I would venture that Christian doctrinal principal is a manifesto which offers that there are alternatives to organised religion by saying that ‘these are universal moral absolutes. Whichever way you go, use them as they are the foundation of your innate humanitarian conscience’.

        Contrariwise, Islam is an ideology of rules, regulations, and codes – and the importance of submitting to those codes. Commonly, on pain of death. I’d suggest that this is where certain leftists and the progressives of the New Left see an agreeable consonance with their Orwellian/Huxleyan ideological submission to a big/supra-state.

        • johnb1945

          Or, more crudely, Islam is a Religion of collective observance and submission. It codifies God’s kingdom from the top down. In that respect it is similar to all other dogmas, which see collective action as the route to betterment.

          Christianity begins with the individual’s relationship with God and tries to build it from the bottom up, as a “spiritual realm” which, in turn, betters our temporal realm.

          Turning Islam into a personal faith will be difficult. I don’t even think it will be possible.

          I don’t know what the solution is, TBH. I believe in Religious freedom, but I think we’ve just got to have an honest conversation with British Muslims and see where it takes us. It’s not immediately foreseeable.

          • Conway

            How can you have “an honest conversation” with people whose ideology tells them to lie to you?

          • johnb1945

            I don’t think it will be too difficult. Most Muslims are not liars and the conversation about Islam is happening within Islam. We’ve just got to work out how to move forward.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I think you a very mistaken. Most Muslims will not betray their fundamental teachings in dialogue with the infidel, other than the obfuscation of the view that the ills we see on our news daily is nothing to do with islam and Islam is peaceful. How can that be when historical and present evidence does more than suggest the opposite is true. The liberal progressive, common purpose, cultural Marxists have and will continue to whitewash over these facts with the revisionist view that Islam is a religion of peace.
            We have been taken for fools for too long.

          • johnb1945

            Alright, calm down.

            I’m married to a Muslim, or rather, former Muslims, so I’ve seen quite a few of these dreaded people up close and interacted with them.

            And there are all sorts, nominal, cultural, disbelieving, salafist, good people, bad people, people who are neither all good nor all bad.

            You tar everyone with the same brush, and that is a mistake.

            Most Muslims find the current situation very painful. Something they’ve been brought up to think of as sacred is at the root of the Middle East’s implosion and every terror incident in Europe for the past decade has been perpetrated by Muslims.

            They don’t like it any more than anyone else, and many of them do want to address the issues.

            The documentary focused on Muslims who hold illiberal or aggrandising views. Among all the hype, it is very easy to miss the fact that in all cases a large proportion of British Muslims hold views similar to the majority.

            So yes, it is very possible and necessary to have a mature conversation with British Muslims.

            Put the pitchfork and the torch down.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Pussyfooting around is the mistake my friend. The mature conversation to which you allude should have happened twenty years ago when numbers were smaller but it was still blatantly obvious we had a serious problem. Now those numbers have more than doubled and the Muslim community are upping the ante in more ways than one.
            The surge in Muslim migration is the precursor to the European intifada. Your moderates will be powerless to rein in what is coming regrardless of how mature the conversation is. Plus considering your moderates are considered heretics I’m not sure where your talk will get you.
            I do not mean any disrespect to you or your wife with my next comment, but how does your wife feel that a significant and growing minority want to do her physical harm within this country as a result of her apostasy?
            This is the reality.
            Rotherham, Burnley, Rochdale, Oxford, Leicester, Luton, Sheffield, tower hamlets is the reality.
            The antics across German and other European cities at the hands of the migrants is the reality of what is coming. 3rd world backward 7th century dogma that will not integrate with us is what is coming. THIS is the reality.
            Talk will not solve this. Action will.

            When the slippery imams have convinced you during your talks that it is really nothing to do with Islam and those people are really not Muslims what is your next move?More submission? More concessions? More of the same?

            The longer this goes on the more harsh the action will have to be.
            Any fool can see that.

            Unfortunately, our morally reprehensible and mentally deficient liberal progressives wilfully fail to see that.

            We are all being manipulated like puppets by the global elite who have let Islam out of its containment in the middle east in order to further their global strategy.

            Churchill defined mohamedans perfectly. I do Not wish to be arrested today but you all know what I mean.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, the reality of your selective carting about crime, as you mention Islam is too advanced for you. Your desire for violence…as you, fool, try for your extremist actions… as you blame the left for your tendencies and views, as you ignore the fact Churchill was unpopular in peace for a reason.

            And the law exists to stop violence from people like you, right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I’d read my comment again if I were you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And you’re not me, so my perfectly good answer stands.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            As I said read my comment again as your “answer” didn’t really address any points I made

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you reject my relevant answer. Right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Read it again Leon then try again.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So stop using facts and try to be like you. No.

    • mohdanga

      Can anybody tell me one thing positive that has come about from Muslim immigration?? Just one thing.

      • Damaris Tighe

        Anything that makes the transformation of our countries into semi police states a worthwhile trade off?

  • Kenneth Brendan Houston

    Miqdaad Versi of the MCB did a cudgel job on the documentary in the Guardian.

    His piece is deconstructed here:

    http://thescholarist.blogspot.com/2016/04/checking-miqdaad-versis-privilege.html

    “Versi’s own ‘skewed’
    perspectives on this debate, doubtless a product of the MCB’s ideological origins
    in Jamaat-i-Islami, will get much more column inches in the Guardian
    than those of us who want to see genuine integration and a firmer and more
    robust embodiment of the very liberal principles that have benefitted both
    Muslim and non-Muslim UK citizens. Versi’s tactic is that of smoke and mirrors,
    distraction and ultimately self-contradiction. In Versi’s world there is no
    justification for calling Muslims anything other than model citizens. And we Muslims
    have the women Muslim activists fighting against social conservativism in
    Muslim ‘communities’ to prove that there is no social conservativism. See the
    problem?”

  • JOhn Mackie

    “And when it came to the really tricky question — the one about terrorism
    — a blank envelope was provided for the answer, so that respondents
    felt freer to say what they really thought.”

    A state which holds the safety of its citizens as paramount would have fooled those terrorist goatfcukers into thinking the blank envelope was anonymous and rounded up those who expressed any sympathy with terrorism. Simples!

  • greencoat

    The wind is changing direction so Mr Phillips is trimming his sails accordingly.

    • Well he has to keep on getting paid doesn’t he? He must have realised that it is now impossible to keep on propagating the line he has been doing for forty years and not be laughed out of the park.

  • zanzamander

    The problem is that by the time people like Trevor Phillips – the opinion makers, the media, educators, the movers and the shakers, realise the folly of their words and (in)action regarding Islam, it is already too late. The damage has been done.

    Added to this, another problem is that there are not many like Mr Phillips who have, albeit too late, come to realise their mistake. They’re still sleep walking us into what will eventually become an islamic State.

    Having said this, I have come to a conclusion that Islam has already won. No amount of back tracking or head scratching will save us now. In a few months time, US voters will replace one Islamo-dreamer promoter with another – Hillary Clinton.

    You would have thought that after 9/11 people would wise up, instead US immigration of Muslims increased by 4 million. So much for the back-lash predicted by the lefties and the media.

    We are going to lose on demographics alone. And by the looks of it, I’d give us no more than a couple of decades.

    Damage done by people like Mr Phillips can never be undone.

    • johnb1945

      I don’t think Trevor Phillips should be judged on a single problematic group.

      Back in the 60s, 70s and 80s, migrants from the Caribbean (for example) wanted to integrate with and be accepted by the rest of society. Racial prejudice inhibited this.

      Trevor Phillips et al., were instrumental in making sure this was overcome. He deserves credit for that.

      The mistake Phillips made, and which he now admits, was to assume that like all other Migrant groups, Muslims wanted to be integrated.

      It’s clear that a significant minority of them did not and do not want to be.

      I don’t think he should be judged on this. I think the more open society people like him have been instrumental in creating stands a far greater chance of overcoming this issue and integrating Muslims than the more closed society we had in the 70s or 80s.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        He should be judged on this. Someone in his position who can shape the narrative in our society should have carried out the due diligence on the group he felt needed to be integrated before encouraging more come.
        Had he bothered to read history and speak to counterparts in other countries like Victor orban he would have had his answer.
        So he needs to answer for his traitorous folly and pay the high price.

        • johnb1945

          You’re basically asking people to be perfect, and if they are not, to be judged solely on their imperfections.

          It’s very similar to your contention in your other post that, despite the survey showing many Muslims in agreement with the non-Muslim mainstream, all Muslims must be adjudged to be Islamic fundamentalists.

          It’s a black and white way of viewing the world and I would suggest unrealistic and unhelpful.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No I am asking people to be responsible and accountable, something sorely lacking in today’s liberal agenda.
            The longer we refuse to name and expose the enemy the more black and white and extreme the remedial action will have to be.

          • johnb1945

            You’re basic premise is that Muslim = liar, therefore we cannot talk to them.

            The only solution, therefore, is to contain them (probably physically, walls, ghettos etc.) or deport them.

            Both of which entirely lack compassion, are dehumanising and would cause civil unrest bordering on civil war as well as having other unintended effects – tanking our economy, making us a pariah state, for example.

            All based on the false premise that Muslim = liar.

            Great.

            Muslims are not liars and the solution to this is to work this issue out with their participation.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Compassion will get us all killed or subdued. Civil war is already coming, if not instigated by our elite, then by our guests. We are not alone and this is happening in every single western nation.

            Your time for talk was 20 years ago when numbers were low but it was blatantly obvious we had a problem and had the ability to control it. By allowing it to continue the liberati have allowed this to fester and infect our whole society.

            You liberals are utopians who do not seem to grasp the fact that we are not all alike. In the name of tolerance you are quite happy to give concessions to an ideogy which in theory and practice is at total odds with our own societal norms.
            Your actions have bred the intolerance we see within the Muslim community.
            Your actions have allowed critical analysis of the Islamic religion to be virtually outlawed.
            Your actions have led to our authorities turning a blind eye to violence against our girls and women.
            You action have sent the signal that victim culture works.
            We are seen as weak and ripe for subjugation.
            Your tolerance will see far more people killed than any scenario You suggested.
            You are blind to history past and present.
            The Hungarian prime minister has it right. Why? Because Hungary has suffered Islamic aggression in the past. We haven’t.
            You are acting like lambs being led to halal slaughter.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame not acting nasty… as you talk about the civil war you want… as you call the Other a problem, as you show how unlike normal people you are… as you demand concessions towards your extremism and your entirely out-of-step views. As you blame all Muslims… as you preach hate and call for the blood you so want… as you agree with the PM and ISIL on the doctrine of separation…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You obviously did not read, or understand my comment.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Sadly for you I did, hence my post.

          • mohdanga

            The backlash is coming in eastern Europe and will spread West, hopefully. We are tired of being told how we “lack compassion” and are “dehumanising” the poor Muslims. If some of the “moderate” Muslims you keep referring to would stand up to this so-called “minority of Muslims”, it might be different. But they won’t and as a result there will be more pandering, more backpedalling, more concessions by our spineless leaders.
            Kicking out terrorist Muslims and their sympathizers will “tank the economy” and “make us a pariah”. Good grief.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            The enemy is people like you – extremists.

            And the time to act is before you commit violent acts, as you call for them.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Don’t blame me Leon. But I’ll come back and say I told you so.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Don’t see you for who you are, as you make sure you’ll cause…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Do you speak the same way you write, trailing away…………

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And once more, all you have.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Which remarkably seems to be far more than you. Who would have thought?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, you don’t think, just refuse to read. Right.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, can’t allow democracy, gotta highlight the one out of step….

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            And inability to finish a sentence.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And that’s all you got.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            It’s the only thing identified worthy of response.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            That excuse, right.

  • Uusikaupunki

    “Unlimited tolerance must lead to the
    disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to
    those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant
    society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will
    be destroyed, and tolerance with them.”
    Karl Popper

  • grumpyoldrockape

    Cameron wants Turkey in the EU..and Angela Merkel, Europe’s paymaster, recently set about setting up visa-free travel to the EU for the 75 million Turks.
    And, because we have no sovereignty over immigration from the EU, if Frau
    Merkel is saying 75 million Turks can walk into Europe, then they can
    walk into Britain.And we won’t be able to do anything about it.
    The only way the UK can fully control who settles in this country is for the electorate to overwhelmingly Vote to Leave the EU.

    Vote Leave

    • johnb1945

      We’ll get top quality kebabs. Seriously, the Turks will not be allowed into the EU unless they drop the Authoritarian Islamist tendencies, along with a whole load of other eamples of malpractice..

      This is one good thing about the EU. Trade has always been a vehicle for ideas and values. Money talks.

      • Space 1999

        They are getting visa-free travel to the EU this summer.

        • johnb1945

          For 90 days. Consider it a taster. I suppose the idea is that people will take advantage of this, realise the benefits accruing from a deeper relationship when they see it with their own eyes and experience it, and pressure the Turkish government to affect the changes necessary to ensure it.

          This is classically how trade spreads ideas and values.

          Ironically, Islam was, itself, spread partially by trade!

    • Bill Kendall

      And Turks are 99% Muslims, we are fecked if they come over.

  • JOhn Mackie

    For our politicans to admit Islam is a huuuuuuuuuuuge problem would require them to admit

    1. They treasonously didn’t ask us democratically if we wanted 3 million of them here.
    2. They were utterly wrong (and obviously) to believe our liberal enlightened welfare state was so superior a model that would win Muslims over into a kumbaya state of happy coexistence
    3. they they are trying to pander to getting the Muslim block vote. Witness Saeeda Warsi meteoric rise….

    One day this lot will have to admit all three when Muslim on Muslim sectarian violence makes one of our cities resemble Falluja. Baghdad and Aleppo. Leading to we indigenous people to clean up the mess.

    • Primotivo Primotivo

      John, the troubles you guys face is a direct result of British colonialism. None of the colonized peoples asked for the British, but they got them anyway. This is called blowback. Your tiny elite got rich on the backs of your empire, and its now the ordinary folk who have to live with results- the surly muslims and agresive non-whites who occupy your towns and cities.

      • ThatOneChap

        How is this a result of colonialism, especially as it’s a result of immigration policies put into place after the British Empire was wound up? The vast majority of immigration to this country has occurred in the last 20 years. Having an empire and then giving it up does not automatically preclude a policy of encouraging mass migration. Look at Spain and Portugal, for instance. Both had global empires and yet neither country appears to have invited in mass immigration.

        • Primotivo Primotivo

          Indians, Pakistanis, Asian Kenyans, Afro-Caribbeans, Nigerians- what do all of these have in common? They make up the vast majority of your immigrant population and they are all ex-British colonies or dependencies. They had a link to Britain, a common language, which is why they came. Also, Britain felt guilty about her past so she welcomed them with open arms, to the cost of the local working classes.

          • ThatOneChap

            And yet, having an Empire, an Empire which might I add that anyone within could travel freely and work freely, didn’t lead to mass immigration while policy enacted afterwards did. You’re blaming the policy of immigration on the Empire, saying that it’s a consequence of it. Sweden has a similar policy, yet no Empire outside of Europe. The actual link appears to be social democratic internationalists rather than Empires.

      • Penny

        Your point might be valid if there had been just the British empire – but it was hardly the only colonial enterprise. “ThatOneChap” (comment below mine) has mentioned Spain and Portugal, to which I’d add the French, the Dutch, the Italian, the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman empires.

        If this is “blowback”, then why isn’t, say, Turkey, living with the results of its pretty vast and enduring empire?

        • mohdanga

          “If this is “blowback”, then why isn’t, say, Turkey, living with the results of its pretty vast and enduring empire?” And why doesn’t it apologize ad infinitum???

      • mohdanga

        Then the West should be terrorizing Islamic countries for their imperialism and colonialism from the year 700 onwards. But we’re not…but we should, at least according to your logic.
        And the British never “colonized” any of the Middle eastern countries or India. The British never had more than 200,000 soldiers and administrators in India at any time, this in a country with a population of over 300 million. The British were a tiny minority in the countries they controlled, they never sought to drive out the indigenous populations of the Middle East.
        Are the “refugees” in Austria, Germany, Sweden, etc raping and mugging because of British colonialism?

  • Bonkim

    You did not need Trevor Phillips to tell you that.

    The British of all people with theie hindsight of colonial history ought to know Islam better than others. Fast travel, instant communications, and international aid to the undeserving have combined to give new life to this dark ages belief system, emboldened its followers to new heights of bigotry. the West is under the delusion that talking up human rights and individual freedoms and offering refuge for those suffering internal conflicts of their own making will somehow reform inane bigotry.

    People like Peter Sutherland of the UN and do-gooding NGOs fed on massive aid budgets have only helped increase the populations that wish us harm and will act whenever opportunities arise. The Million + refugees will set up Ghettos in Europe and sources of future threats to those believe in law and order.

  • Bluebottle83

    Our politicians are endangering Western society because they fail to understand that muslims believe the Qu’ran to be the inalterable word of their deity. It instructs believers to murder non believers, rape their daughters, lie to them and take over their lands.

    • A Dufour

      How awful! You had better report this danger to the police!

      • foxoles

        And get your collar felt as a result of Mr Phillips’ great invention, Islamophobia (crime).

        • WFC

          Ah yes … “Islamaphobia”.

          Funny how neither Phillips, nor anybody else, has ever needed to coin Sikhphobia, or Hinduphobic, or Shintophobe, or the like.

      • Penny Henry

        Are you a ‘moderate’ Muslim yourself? We need ‘British Muslim’ views.

      • Primotivo Primotivo

        Troll alert! Bunked off school today Duffer and mummies blocked the naughty sites?Oh dear.

        • SunnyD

          his name’s Ahmed Megan Milano and he lives in France! FFS

      • Penny Henry

        A Dufour 4 months ago

        “Fact is, you and your ilk owe the Muslims big time. You go over and invade their lands – they will come to you. They will take your jobs, marry your women, and you will end up as a second class citizen working for them and cleaning their toilets. That is your place, so deal with it.”

        Ok. This answers my question.

      • SunnyD

        Ahmed Megan Milano – is that you?

  • A Dufour

    What a load of frothing at the mouth bigoted nonsense coming from the usual suspects, Spectator included. The programme must have been some sort of wet dream to you lot. Yes, some Muslims have traditional conservative views but actually, they identify more with Britain than the Muslim haters. So we are more British than you. You had better get used to it. No-one is really discussing this programme, thank goodness. It’s already yesterday’s news. Move on. You had your day. It’s finished. We’re here.

    • WFC

      “Bigot”, noun: a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

      Hmmm.

    • Ha ha ha ha ha – hilarious. No self awareness eh? The first thing needed to put this right is a realistic view of what has gone wrong, and you sir don’t have that at all do you. Well you’re here – for now. That can change as quickly as the next violent outrage by adherents of the laughable misnamed ‘Religion of Peace’. Do you REALLY think Trevor Philips is one of the ‘bigoted’, ‘usual suspects’? He is the archetypal lefty dreamer who caused this disaster in the first place by allowing migrants to just arrive and ‘do their thing’. Here’s how it works old chap; if I go to the Middle East, I would absolutely make sure I complied with all of the cultural expectations of the local people. I would NOT drink alcohol, wear skimpy clothing, chat up the local women, or do anything to offend my hosts. What has gone on here for forty years is that alien foreigners have arrived and done the exact opposite of consider their hosts. hundreds of thousands of you (perhaps not you – I don’t know you) have outraged the cultural expectations of the people who (stupidly in my view) opened their doors to your people and let them settle here. Hundreds of thousands of your womenfolk don’t speak English – even though they have lived here for decades; you abuse family re-union rules to systematically import more people from far away who know little of our country and don’t speak our language. You occupy our prisons at a rate three times that of the indigenous population, and there is not a city in the land which has a substantial Muslim population which does not have a massive police investigation into the systematic se xu al abuse and pro sti tution of under aged white girls. And you wonder why increasingly people feel hatred and contempt for these behaviours and the people who present them to us and expect us to suck it up?

    • ThatOneChap

      So to paraphrase you: “We very recently immigrated Muslims are more British than British people who have lived here for centuries. Our attitudes are what this country now stands for. We are here and your day is done.”

      Perhaps I might suggest that such attitudes are not British at all and that your post illustrates why the British people are increasingly concerned about Islam?

    • CharleyFarleyFive

      ‘You had your day. It’s finished. We’re here.’

      Never a truer word spoken.

    • Trofim

      They “identify with Britain”? What does “identifying with Britain” mean? Nothing, just a soundbite.

      “We’re here”. So you may be, but this country would be hugely better off if you weren’t here.

    • mohdanga

      Why don’t you go in live in some Muslim utopia, you idiot??

  • Zalacain

    It takes a big man to admit he was wrong. We should encourage more like him.

    • A Dufour

      The programme was a bit of as damp squib. Plus it has no traction with the people who matter. The only ones who are masturbating over it are the far right, including the Spectator.

      • Zalacain

        When you talk of the far right, do you include most Muslims in that description?

      • SunnyD

        there’s nowt more “far right” than the “religion of peace”

  • WFC

    The programme, and the reaction to it, highlights the contradiction inherent in “multicultural” beliefs.

    Which is that “multiculturalists” genuinely believe that if you take away the poverty, oppression etc etc, everybody in the world will be just like us.

    • A Dufour

      It’s arrogant to believe that everyone wants to be ‘like us’ because Jeremy Corbyn is not like David Cameron for a start so who is ‘us’. Multiculturalism says that the world is complex with people who have differing views and opinions and that it is not a big deal, actually. Actually it’s a pretty good thing.

      • Penny Henry

        “Kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.”

        Not a “big deal?” Learn from history.

      • WFC

        I agree that it is arrogant, but that is what they believe. The whole “give them a couple of generations and we’ll all be singing cumbayaa together” assumption which underpinned Phillips’ original report.

        • A Dufour

          We won’t be doing anything together. We’ll all be stuck to our mobile phones or be interacting with robots instead.

          • WFC

            🙂

            Britain as Solaria?

            Can’t see it somehow:-)

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            There won’t be anyone clever enough to make such devices, what with the issues of inter family marriage.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Multiculturalism is a construct and vehicle to dilute race and national features.
        Multiculturalism is a danger to us all. The host culture should prevail above all others.
        Multi ethnic community is a different matter. People from all corners of the earth accepting, integrating and living within the host cultural norms. Rather than dictating that the host culture change to align with their culture.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Allowing other cultures and their people… those evil Sikhs and Jews, a danger, as you demand your politics prevails.

          Anyone, as long as they sign your far right blood oath, check. And act exactly as the helots you want.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No Leon. Multiculturalism is an artificial construct, an ideology being forced on us by liberal progressive social engineers. They see white Caucasian as something to eradicate.
            If not this, explain why this policy is not being applied in the far east, middle east and other areas.

            By the way before I forget. Define far right Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes yes, you keep saying allowing more than old culture is “an artificial construct, an ideology being forced on us by liberal progressive social engineers.”

            The evils of allowing i.e. Sihks and Jews, as not being of your monocult…
            And of course, there is one monoculture – North Korea. Period.

            And before you “forget”, you try and wriggle out again you say Hmm!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I wish you’d stop banging on about Sikhs and Jews. You are totally missing the point. I’m sure you would object if you were told that your Jewish cultural practices had to change to accommodate a different cultures practices. That is exactly what is happening in the “multicultural” west.
            Are you prepared to dilute or comprise your culture?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yea, how dare I mention some of your other enemies, as I get the point 100% – I understand you demand I utterly abandon my views to suit your politics, and you won’t let any other culture exist.

            As you again declare your opposition to multicitultuiralism – so, again, to groups which include Sikhs and Jews…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I don’t object to a multi ethnic society within the host culture. Totally different to multiculturalism and you know it.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I know you’re trying to backpeddle frantically now. Allowing more than one culture is …a multiculture.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No, it’s what I’ve always said. And no, multiculture is not conceding your own culture. Other enthnic groups should integrate into the host culture, not agitate to change it.
            Try again if you would old chap.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your posts…try to paint your politics as a culture. and you admit you won’t tolerate any kind of other culture must be subjugated to your political views, right. Same old Stalinism, in this case!

            (Or are you arguing you’re more in line with the Spanish Inquisition?)

            The facts remain – you would clearly not allow i.e. a single Sihk or Jew, if you got your way!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Utter tosh as usual. You try and paint whatever you like. I know what I have said time and time again. You continue with your poor attempts to smear people with your leftist hate labels. It doesn’t and won’t work Leon.
            If we lived under a Stalinist system Leon neither you are I would be here.
            I cannot fathom why leftist like you want to embrace an ideology that would ultimately destroy them.
            The can be only one conclusion. You are suffering from an acute leftist mental disorder.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, you are spouting utter tosh as you use your hate lables and PC, as you try to ignore Stalin’s very similar policies on freedoms…

            And I don’t embrace you and your desire to destroy me.
            As you chant totalitarian, social darwinist hate, spewing that those not like you are mentally ill.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You sound like a gibbering fool to me Leon. Maybe you should seek a diagnosis.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Tip – sound does not travel across the internet. You’re hearing your own voice.

            And your issues are yours.

      • mohdanga

        If it’s no big deal then why do Muslims like you always kill people because of a cartoon or stuffed teddy bear?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Why do Christians like you support the IRA, or support people like Frank Silva Roque or Jim David Adkisson?

          Same (sad) collectivist viewpoint.
          Or don’t you? And perhaps you should find out what someone’s view are before you condemn them?

          • mohdanga

            Err, any evidence that I support the IRA? Have no idea who Frank Silva Roque or Jim David Adkisson are so go back to your toys in the corner.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Using your ideology, the fact you’re Christian.

            As you show you’re a howling hypocrite – judging others in a politically correct way, then whining when the same is applied to you!

          • mohdanga

            Umm, a significant chunk of Muslims agree with terrorist acts, sharia, etc. How many Christians agree with terrorist acts? Please try and keep up, dum dum.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I used 100% the same collectivism you did!

            And yes, ask American Christians why they supported the IRA, etc.

            So, Mr. Dum Dum, I am keeping up.

          • mohdanga

            Tens of millions of American Christians supported the IRA? Hmmm.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And there’s the excuses.

            I used, again, exactly your kind of collective blame there. Try judging people on what they actually think and believe rather than a PC image of what *you* think…

          • mohdanga

            Here’s what your Muslim friends believe…have fun. But, nothing to worry about, it’s a tiny number.https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659913/two-in-three-British-Muslims-would-NOT-give-police-terror-tip-offs

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame all Muslims, in your PC.

            As you support by that “logic” your buddy Brevik…

          • mohdanga

            I support Brevik? That’s odd, don’t recall saying that.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your collectivism encompasses him.
            Or are you just a major hypocrite, with different standards for different ideologies?

  • A Dufour

    “There wasn’t much to disagree with in this brave and honest programme, except for the odd momentary lapse, as when Phillips said, of Islamophobia, ‘I’ve no doubt that most of it emanates from sheer blind prejudice.’ ”

    Of course James Delingpole would conveniently disagree, because to do that would admit to his casual bigotry. Hitler disagreed that Jews were properly European, or even human.

    • Zalacain

      We mustn’t forget that many Muslims agreed with Hitler.

      • Rajmuld

        The Holocaust was carried out by white Europeans, many of them Christians. Your claim about Muslims ‘agreeing’ with Hitler is vague BS – the kind pumped out by hateful Zionists with no justification whatever .

        • Zalacain

          Logic doesn’t seem to be your strong suit. Do you agree that many Muslims agreed with Hitler, or not?

          • WFC

            Many still do.

        • Latimer Alder

          Here’s a contemporary example from a Labour councillor in multicultural Luton

          http://order-order.com/2016/04/10/labour-councillors-my-man-hitler-tweets/

        • Shazza

          The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem assured Hitler that he would finish off the job of exterminating the Jews for him. Google it – the facts are all there, including photographs.

          I believe also that Mein Kampf is quite a bestseller in moslem countries……. Google that as well.

          BTW The Holocaust was not carried out to further Christianity, albeit I am sure that a lot of Nazis were Christians, but WWII was not a religious war.
          The war that islam is fighting now, is a religious war – its purpose is to impose this dark age ideology on the non moslem world.

          • Rajmuld

            I don’t follow instructions from simpleton bigots called “Shazza”, whose education clearly amounts to “Googling it”. You’re a barely literate cretin.

          • SunnyD

            Ad hom, when you’ve provided no citations, no cogent arguments. Great. Try actually stepping back, taking a breath and engage brain. Googling things to seek answers isn’t something Islam would approve of though, is it? Islam would prefer you keep to 7th Century values and ideas I suppose?

            Having read carefully all the comments thus far, I can only conclude that you are an agent provocateur (of some description) – although even that term might be showing you a kindness you don’t deserve. I noted with much interest your complete failure to denounce the vile aspects of Islam’s tenets. Your utter failure to condemn the atrocities committed in Islam’s name (despite your fruitless attempts to “look over there! Israel bombed Palestine!” – pathetic!) .

            Please supply citations where we can read more about your suggestions on how Muslims should integrate with the societies in which they are situated. Otherwise, you’re p i ssing into the wind.

            aawjo!

          • Shazza

            Ad hominem attacks in lieu of constructive argument – a clear sign you have lost the argument.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Doesn’t mean Shazza isn’t right.

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          Tell the grand mufti of Jerusalem that.

        • mohdanga

          Umm, the Nazis weren’t Christian, they did their best to oppress the church once they were in power. And the Nazis were defeated by Christian countries.

      • A Dufour

        We musn’t forget that white European Christians voted him into power, and that he had a lot of support in Britain too.

        • Zalacain

          The big difference being that Hitler was beaten by Europeans. While many Muslims today still think highly of Hitler.

          • Space 1999

            Indeed, the Nazis were beaten by people of many countries and religions, including Indian Sikhs and Pakistani Muslims, all fighting for the British side.

          • red2black

            Far more Muslims in the Red Army than ever fought for Hitler. Franco found Muslims useful as well.

          • Zalacain

            Muslims fought for both sides during both world wars, but generally for their colonial masters.

          • red2black

            So did a lot of people from many other ‘colonial’ religions.

    • Latimer Alder

      Yep

      I’m pretty phobic about a religion that explicitly instructs its savage adherents to behead me as an infidel.

      And were I gay I’d get an involuntary skydiving lesson sans parachute as a sacrifice to your bloodthirsty skypixie.

      So when you’ve repealed the koran in favour of something a lot less murderous, we’ll talk.

    • Shazza

      I seem to remember that Mehdi Hasan in his infamous rant on Youtube referred to non moslems as ‘cattle’…..

  • tenbelly

    If only people would listen to this guy rather than the bien pensant Phillips.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4FpTvp0tgs&list=FLOekCJfjudWJBNs9gZZOGAA&index=13
    At least he calls a spade a spade.

  • THE <

    I’m not at all surprised by the survey.
    What I never hear are genuine feasible solutions to this problem.
    Here’s mine.
    The Bank of England gets printing and offers Muslims £50,000 to emigrate, hopefully to a country that already practices their religion.
    It will cost an awful lot of money but the cost if we don’t address this problem will be far higher.

    • ThatOneChap

      To be honest, if you look at lifetime cost to the Treasury regarding schooling, housing benefit, healthcare, policing, etc, it might be the cheaper option.

  • CharleyFarleyFive

    The ultimate question now is what will change? To get back to the position we should be in will be very difficult, nigh on impossible.

    Sharia councils and Halal meat for a start should never have been allowed.

    • foxoles

      Nor should being able to claim benefits for (at present) up to four wives.

      • Shazza

        You neglect to mention that although the powers that be shout out loud that polygamy is illegal in the UK, polygamous ‘marriages’ are recognised provided that such ‘marriages’ took place outside the UK. It goes without saying that these ‘wives’ are fully entitled to the relevant benefits.

        • fundamentallyflawed

          Cameron is preparing his speech now “Nothing to do with the EU”..

        • Richard

          I work in benefits and I have not come across this anywhere in my five years service? I suspect it happens, though.

          People criticising the poll are morons, there are hundereds of polls that advise us of what Muslims the world over believe, and not much of it is good!

  • Rajmuld

    Wonder if hate-mongering Trevor Phillips will now expose what another religious community in Britain “really thinks” about terrorism against Palestinian Muslims (you know – murdering boys playing football on a beach, burning babies, shooting prisoners in the head, regular genocides, land theft, false imprisonment…..)?… Thought not.

    • WFC

      If he did as you suggest, would that also be “hate mongering”?

    • CharleyFarleyFive

      Probably the same that they think about terrorism towards anyone, they abhor it. Unlike it would seem 4% of British Muslims.

    • CharleyFarleyFive

      Trevor Phillips, hate mongering, LOL. You clueless clown.

    • DaveAtherton20

      It is more than possible it was a Hamas weapon that killed the boys. The writer is James Delingpole.

      http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/10/10/claim-the-four-palestinian-boys-killed-on-the-beach-were-not-blown-up-by-israel-but-murdered-by-hamas/

      • Rajmuld

        It’s ‘more than possible’ that 99 per cent of the cowardly bigots on this thread will believe anything that’s in Zionist propaganda sewage outflows like Breitbart. Well done.

        • Zalacain

          You have totally failed to come up with a single coherent argument.

          • ThatOneChap

            He said that the people opposing his views are ‘cowardly bigots’ and ‘Zionist’. That’s enough to win ANY debate!

          • Zalacain

            any debate in front of the mirror at home…

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          Ah you are one of those precious idiots.

      • fundamentallyflawed

        Its one of those unwinnable arguments for anyone seeking to defend Israeli actions – Either they bombed children playing football or they are lying and trying to blame Hamas. The truth is that Hamas has honed propaganda and the use of civilian shields to a fine art

        *the first response from Rajmuld a primary case in point

    • A Dufour

      Well, I do remember that when Palestinians were being slaughtered, members of the religious minority celebrated in Trafalgar square to music and dance. It was disgusting.

    • nick

      the jewish army are easily identifiable, it’s not terrorism in the same vain as muslim cowards

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Is that in the UK? Who knew?

  • GM

    I didn’t need a documentary to tell me what the problems are. How comes we don’t have any issues with other minorities (english, chinese, asian i.e. hindus/sikhs etc…). Anyway, its too late. This sums it up (http://www.examiner.com/article/as-muslim-population-grows-what-can-happen-to-a-society).

    • A Dufour

      If you bombed India, I bet you would have problems with the Hindus and Sikhs here.

      • ThatOneChap

        When did Belgium last bomb anyone?

        • CharleyFarleyFive

          They made the mistake of daring to disturb the status quo, ie appeasement of terrorists living in their midst.

      • Zalacain

        If you bomb Serbia you don’t have a problem with Greek or Romanian Orthodox Christians. You cannot compare a religion with Islam which is an all encompassing ideology and death cult.

      • Space 1999

        We ruled India as recently as 66 years ago, having previously stole it by force – yet many Indians love living here and indeed India was the first non-white member of the Commonwealth. It’s an attitudinal thing…

        • WFC

          Actually, we “stole it” from the Mughal empire.

          To the joy of its Hindu subjects.

          • Space 1999

            Indeed – but you get my drift?

          • WFC

            I do.

          • Zalacain

            Exactly. We shouldn’t forget that Muslims had invaded India and ruled it for hundreds of years.

          • WFC

            Nor should we forget how the Hindu Kush came to be so named.

      • GM

        Doubt it! Indian/Sikhs would protest and debate to government but they would not take up arms against this country. You see their and the rest of the worlds mindset is different compared to Muslims.

        E.g. We all know that Muslims get pissed off when someone criticises islam or mohamed or even draws him. But we know that Muslims like insulting other religions but they think there is nothing wrong in that… can you see the different mindset now?

        • A Dufour

          Well, as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. You don’t know until you’ve done it. They have actually killed two Indian prime ministers – one was a Hindu suicide bomber and the other was Sikh bodyguards. There’s also female infanticide and the caste system. So all is not rosy and warm in that part of the world.

      • Space 1999

        We also stole Hong Kong from China, and invaded Peking in 1906. How have the Chinese community here responded? Would two thirds of them keep quiet about anti-British terrorists in their midst? In a word, no.

      • William Matthews

        Muslims did, and they do. Good for Hindu’s.

      • William Matthews

        In fact, Muslims bomb other Muslims, Christians, Secularists, Buddhists, Communists, Jews and god knows who else, from Nigeria to China, Russia to America, and ‘Muslims’ seem surprised when the world hates them? Irony isn’t in the Qu’ran is it?

        • Space 1999

          Indeed. Islamic State aren’t exactly carrying flowers in the barrels of their AK47s, are they? And last time I checked they were Muslims, fighting other Muslims. And what about Saudi Arabia’s involvement in Yemen? The idea that the Islamic world is somehow some unique and singled out victim of ‘white European’ aggression is as nonsensical as it is false. Yet why to do so many Muslims choose to believe this?

          • ThatOneChap

            This needs to be stated time and time again. The fact is that Western military action have barely done anything to Muslim peoples especially in the post-Cold War era. The vast majority of deaths of Muslims in conflict across the globe are a result of pre-dominantly Muslim groups and nations fighting against other Muslim groups and nations, generally over political, tribal and theological reasons, all of which are tied together. The Ummah appears to be a very dysfunctional family to say the least.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        We had a problem before we bombed anyone chum.

  • CharleyFarleyFive

    All this survey has done has confirm what most people already knew. Whether it will have any impact on the Guardianistas is debatable. I would imagine they’re already scribbling furiously in an attempt to discredit Philips.

    • WFC

      They’re already on here.

      They still haven’t realised that “playing the man” is not only not a refutation of his argument, it demonstrates that you are incapable of refuting the argument.

  • A Dufour

    The same survey showed that more non-Muslims (like James Delingpole) ‘support’ terrorism than Muslims.

    Fancy that. People like James Delingpole are more inclined to support terrorism than your average Muslim, according to the poll.

    According to the poll:
    “For instance, he describes as “alarming” the finding that only 34% of Muslims would report someone to the police who was involved with people who support terrorism in Syria. But for the survey’s “control” group – consisting of randomly selected people from across the country of all or no faiths – the figure is only 30%.”

    • CharleyFarleyFive

      If you were wondering, that’s the sound of a barrel being scraped.

      • fundamentallyflawed

        How many non-Muslims are flying to Syria in the first place for terrorist activities? 30% of 0 isn’t a number to be concerned about.

      • A Dufour

        I take it you’re all right with supporting terrorism then, since you’re so casual about it.

        • CharleyFarleyFive

          Tedious obfuscation, and a classic straw man argument from someone who offers no salient points to debate.

          • clampos

            Because there are none.

      • Space 1999

        I wouldn’t like to be in his shoes – defending the indefensible is never easy. It would be good if he did it with a bit more élan, though. Attacking Israel and claiming we somehow deserve what we get because we ‘bombed’ someone isn’t exactly new and original.

        • fundamentallyflawed

          Don’t need to defend the indefensible – just accuse Phillips of being an Islamaphobe and ignore the survey

    • William Matthews

      So there isn’t a problem with Islam in the UK and everything is peachy?

    • nick

      one wonders if the 30% in the control group were muslims

    • Phyllyp Sparowe

      Phrased like that it is highly unlikely to get an affirmative answer. If you don’t know any Muslims how confident are you that you’d spot a terrorist. Perhaps also they are terrified of reporting those who did dabble in terrorism, because they are Muslims.

    • Sarka

      It’s complicated. A lot of the Muslim correspondents didn’t answer the question on the grounds that it didn’t apply to them…(i.e. they couldn’t imagine knowing anyone who might do that).

  • Jack Smith

    Why do we pretend muslims are integrated? Because the narrative surrounding matters of immigration is tightly controlled and people are put under pressure to say things that are untrue. The same narrative forces us to pretend, in public at least, that mass immigration is necessary and diversity is enriching, when nothing could be further from the truth. Immigration is destroying and replacing our communities, obliterating our culture and rendering our towns and cities unrecognisable and hostile. To embrace multiculturalism is to embrace our own replacement. To celebrate diversity is to celebrate our own deaths. It is inadequate to criticise only muslim immigration, because almost all immigration is disruptive and damaging and threatens to overwhelm us; imminently.

    • foxoles

      As Dr Theodore Dalrymple pointed out re his experiences behind the Iron Curtain, the purpose of propaganda (and PC is the most pernicious form of propaganda) is not to persuade, but to humiliate. If you can force people to say what they know to be untrue, you have broken their spirit. Or you *hope* you have.

      • Jack Smith

        “A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.”

  • Space 1999

    As someone with many friends in the Chinese community in Britain (most of whom, by the way, are strong Brexiters), it’s fascinating to compare the way they have integrated compared to M slims. The former still speak Chinese (Mandarin or Cantonese) at home, still follow strict Chinese codes of conduct when bringing up children (basically, study hard and don’t get into trouble), and still eat Chinese food. They still socialise in tight-knit networks, too. Yet they’re very relaxed about the ‘host’ culture and never openly criticise it, because that would be disrespectful. They’re happy to socialise with Brits and think of themselves strongly as British, and Chinese – it’s not an either/or.

    • William Matthews

      I’ve converted an entire section of the Japanese community in the UK to eating Bangers & Mash. No mean feat, let me tell you.

      And while UK shop opening times ‘irks’ Japanese people immensely (Seriously, Boots isn’t open at 2am?) they have yet to bomb anywhere or demand their own legal system. I in return embraced Tofu. After learning it is supposed to look unnatural.

      A show dedicated to Japanese thought in the UK would only surprise people once they got to Gudetema. Seriously, Google it.

      Thankfully, being Japanese or Chinese or Indian or American, or French is not an ideology. There is no compulsion in race, but…

      • Space 1999

        I lived in Japan for 7 years and soon integrated to Japanese culture – and loved it. I didn’t walk around telling them they had to convert to Christianity or instigate British Common Law. The amazing food did ease my cultural transition, it must be said…

        • William Matthews

          They’re a doddle to get on with. Once they finish playing “Let’s see what the foreigner will eat” for s**ts and giggles.

          • Space 1999

            Indeed. The Chinese like that too, and playing the game is much harder there…

        • ThatOneChap

          But would it have been so easy if you wouldn’t drink alcohol, eat, let’s say… chicken, and demanded that any meat you were served was butchered in a specific manner?

          • Space 1999

            Funnily enough, I was a passionate vegetarian when I went there. I eventually just gave up, realising I couldn’t live as one in Tokyo at the time. That was hard, but I got over it.

          • William Matthews

            Weirdly, after live prawns, box fish, live squid, Okonomiyaki and natto beans, I drew the line at “raw chicken”.

          • Space 1999

            Natto for me was a point past which I would not go. They were quite cool about it – almost apologetic, whilst laughing hysterically at me…

          • William Matthews

            I like Natto. I eat it for breakfast frequently in the UK, but it is the Japanese Marmite in that respect 🙂

            The ‘Living Fish’ gag, where my wifes family, the other restaurant guests and the restaurant staff, waited with gleeful anticipation for my partly drunk reaction. I initially look stunned, when it moved, I ceremonially executed it with my chopsticks, not realizing it was already dead, to the pitter-patter of tiny Japanese tears splashing in hilarity in the room around me.

          • ThatOneChap

            That’s actually something I rather want to try. The very existence of chicken sashimi suggests that they’re either very confident in the hygiene of their poultry or they’ve developed a stunning resistance to it.

          • Space 1999

            The former, I’d say. I never once got food poisoning in Tokyo all the years I was there. In Beijing, I usually get ‘Delhi Belly’ within a week of landing…

          • William Matthews

            I lived by the rule; “180 million Japanese can’t be wrong”, so I ate pretty much anything I was offered. It was interesting. I struggled with cold tea and coffee, after years of being told you can’t drink it now, it’s cold! But raw chicken…? Now I feel like a wimp and a bit of hypocrite. When I go back next time, I’m having it. 🙂

  • fundamentallyflawed

    On this same day an absurd “diversity” statement from David Lammy about the BBC is allowed to go uncommented by the Spectator – calling for more BAME representation yet here we have proof that a large part of the BAME community are un-representable by British common ideals.

    • ThatOneChap

      “Labour MP for London Constituency calls for more diversity”

      Do we need an article to let us know this?

      • Hybird

        It’s not diversity he wants – it’s reinforcements.

    • Mr Grumpy

      BAME people who switch off when there’s a white face on the box = victims of racism.

      White people who switch off when there’s a BAME face on the box = racists.

      Perfectly straightforward and reasonable, I think.

    • William Matthews

      Yes. No comments allowed on that one. That irked me. The Left doesn’t approve of the voice of dissent, not even in right wing forum. Someone might bully them.

      • WFC

        The fact that no comments are allowed, under that article, speaks volumes about both Lammy’s and the Speccy’s views of its merits.

        • William Matthews

          Do you think they might have gotten both barrels? Because I do.

          • WFC

            So do they.

    • Phyllyp Sparowe

      Lammy knows his MP days are numbered and he’s chasing sinecures. Quotas for BAMES massively favour their proportionately smaller middle/upper class who can use their numbers in the working class to leverage up.

  • Sanctity Bet

    Who cares how ‘patriotic’ or how connected British Muslims feel to the UK and blah blah blah if they also think they have the right to force their beliefs on others (e.g. criminalising gay people)?? I’d rather have fellow countrymen and women who aren’t patriotic/jingoistic but who respect the rights of others to live their lives as they see fit.

  • CharleyFarleyFive

    If you need a chuckle I suggest you follow @JihadistJoe on Twitter.

    • William Matthews

      Aye.

  • Michael H Kenyon

    Didn’t surprise me a jot. But it might upset the media-ocrities and their safe evasions. This is why many of the indigenous people who live alongside Muslims are less sentimental.

  • gerronwithit

    Got to love Katie Hopkins straight talking and oh so true:_

    “The reason Muslims enjoy our country is because it is tolerant. Not the bits where we are tolerant of each other, you understand. Not the fact we respect your right to be Jewish or utterly ungodly. Or our warm embrace of those who identify as straight, gay, lesbian or as gender-fluid as a snail.

    No. They enjoy our country because we are tolerant of their right to be as as prejudiced against Jews and as homophobic as they please. “

    • Shazza

      I am so enjoying her on LBC on Sundays at 10.00am.

    • Chris Hobson

      Its why they thrive in Germany so afraid of appearing fascistic.

    • TartanTerrier

      Less than 50 years ago, homosexuality in UK was illegal and UK was as homophobic as you would find anywhere. Whats all this nonsense about Muslims being prejudiced against jews…..where is the evidence for this…..

      • gerronwithit

        Take the cheese out of your ears, open your eyes, look at the news or even try stepping outside of your left wing cave now and again. You truly are leading a delusional life.

        • TartanTerrier

          OK bigotry aside -where is the evidence that real life Muslims -rather than cartoon bad guys- are prejudiced against jews.

          • gerronwithit

            Sadly, the bigotry is all with people like yourself who have been getting away with racist and religious persecution because you are left wing and it’s against the hated indigenous population or Zionist oppressors from your own narrow perspective.

          • TartanTerrier

            I’m a lapsed Methodist. Apart from the odd missionary- I don’t think people like me have done much in the way of ‘persecution’ but if you think this is because of socialist principles- that’s just nutty.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Remember, he’s the person who’s spammed me (for being Jewish) with how he hates Jews, in nonsense format, over and over.

            I’m not sure at all he’s left wing though.

          • Dirk

            Google “jew walking through Paris” amd watch the video. Muslims are taught to hate Jews.

          • TartanTerrier

            Proves nothing.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            ..In France, where separation and indeed segregation is state policy.

            In Britain, we have a problem of foreign funding for extremist preachers, but refuse to act on it because Saudi Arabia. (sadly)

      • Planet Vague

        Funny thing is, homophobia is all OK if it’s the Right engaging in it, so why can’t Muslims?

        • TartanTerrier

          I dare say that some Muslims are prejudiced along with some catholics/atheists/Norwegians- indeed any in class of people. However, religion is as arbitrary a reason for that prejudice as any other thing.

    • itsthepatriarchy

      Yeah, MUSLIMS are allowed that prejudice…. white people would be in jail if they expressed it. We have come full circle. We have lost the plot. We have gone insane…collectively.

  • adonbilivit

    Rudyard Kipling wrote a great poem about how our fellow native countrymen might not be perfect, but they are ours! Let me go and find it…

  • Roger Hudson

    So now it’s out in the open what are the government , representing the whole British people, going to do about it ??
    Nothing or talk waffle probably.
    They could start by upholding the Law, no ‘court’ or tribunal may usurp the authority of the laws under the crown. People forget how Canon Law was relegated to a mere administrative place in the CoE.
    Crown allegiance and commonality under the one Law are the bedrock of England (likewise under Scots Law), we must act quickly to enforce or rights.

    • Conway

      I’m afraid EU law takes precedence now.

  • JSC

    Here’s a list of unfashionable minorities that are massively underrepresented, if ever represented at all, on the BBC:

    Scousers, Cockneys, Smoggies, Geordies, Mackems, Brummies, Poolies, Edinburgers, Glaswegians, Dundonian, Aberdonians, Peterborians, Cardiffers, Loiner, Scunthonians, Stopfordians, Moonrakers, Saddlers, etc. etc. etc.

    And here’s a tip BBC, when claiming to represent these minority groups on TV, try to actually pick people that actually represent the ethnic group in question. We know you’re itching to show us a black-asian “cockney” who’s been resident in the UK for a whole 5 years, speaking in “authentic” jamaican patois, (just like cockneys do) telling us how much he likes to drink tea. But please, put aside your skin-colour fetishism for just one second and you’ll find a rich underclass of people you’ve overlooked, complete with their own interesting histories and liberal cultures that rival (nay, surpass) those backwards foreign cultures which you’re so obsessed about foisting on to us.

    • William Brown

      Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear…Represent the working classes? I don’t think that will do at all. The BBC quite like to patronise those funny little foreigners, but god forbid they’d have to accommodate a scouser…a scouser, forgoodnesakes?!!? You are completely mad to suggest such folly.

      • #toryscum

        A scouser, at television centre!? no no no, think of all the things they would steal. our insurers wouldn’t allow it.

  • Franky

    .52 per cent of Britain’s three million Muslims think homosexuality
    should be illegal; 39 per cent think a woman should always obey her
    husband;

    .

    I wonder what the percentages were on these issues among the British people when, for example, they were fighting the Battle of Britain in 1940?

    • William Brown

      Our attitudes have changed in the past 70 + years. Islam hasn’t in 1400 years. It’s called progress, enlightenment, civilisation….take your pick.

      • Franky

        I wouldn’t pick any from that narrow choice list. But yes, attitudes do change. And perhaps the Muslim community is simply representing the beginnings of a further change in values that your great grandchildren will consider to be progress, enlightenment and civilisation etc…. But let’s not pretend that all these “Muslim” attitudes are so un-British.

        • William Brown

          OK, try evolution.

          • Franky

            yes, attitudes might be said to evolve. But they can go on to evolve the other way too.

    • stuartMilan

      let’s extend your attempt at moral equivalence by asking another question: how many people in 1940 would have it considered morally justified to gang rape children?

      • Blue_Frog

        In 1940 many thought homosexuality should remain illegal but not to the extent of sentencing homosexuals to prison or even to death.

        In 1940 (and even today) most of our ancestors also thought a woman should always obey her husband, but not to the extent of imprisoning her behind a niqab.

        Those liberals who are behind social progresses in terms of gay and women’s rights are illogic and inconsistent when they promote at the same time mass migration and multiculturalism, which will consequently annihilate the reaps of their struggles for more tolerance, freedom and equality.

        • stuartMilan

          yep. that the left doesn’t want to take this on board is surely its central intellectual failing

      • Franky

        I imagine very few. But doesn’t this mean that we need to focus on the areas where Islam is really a problem rather than put the focus on those areas that coincide with some politically correct agenda (e.g. gay rights and feminism), pretending that they are alien to “British culture” when they are actually quite new, and ignore those areas that are actually more serious (child gang rape) and really are contrary to a longer view (i.e. more than a couple of decades) of British culture?

        • Penny

          Franky – I disagree that gay rights and feminism are part of a politically correct agenda that we can ignore in terms of problematic issues within Islam.

          Firstly, if we ignore these issues then what we appear to be saying is that in British society women and gays have rights – but we’ll not put any focus on these areas if the women and gays in question happen to be Muslim.

          Secondly, the Muslim community is bound to grow in number and subsequent generations will inherit these views without challenge. The larger a community, the more sway it may hold in community, social and political arenas.

          • Franky

            The point I am making is that these views were very much part of the mainstream British culture within living memory. This raises a couple of points – firstly, to try and make Muslims seem “un-British” for holding these views is therefore absurd. That is why I linked it to the battle of Britain epoch when such views were very much mainstream. Secondly, British society was actually not so bad. Therefore to see these views still expressed in a sub section of present day British society is not really of much concern.

            Firstly, if we ignore these issues then what we appear to be saying is
            that in British society women and gays have rights – but we’ll not put
            any focus on these areas if the women and gays in question happen to be
            Muslim.

            No it doesn’t. Homosexuals and women still had rights before the 1960s when there would have been broad agreement on these questions. Secondly, allowing people to have their own opinions doesn’t mean that they are above the law.

            Secondly, the Muslim community is bound to grow in number and subsequent
            generations will inherit these views without challenge. The larger a
            community, the more sway it may hold in community, social and political
            arenas.

            And as I say, these particular views don’t particularly concern me. They are perfectly compatible with the views of most British people until quite recently. What concerns me is loyalty to Britain, willingness to blow ordinary people up, rape of children etc. Things that certainly were not common British attitudes prior to the 1960s.

    • Conway

      I wonder what percentage of the British 1940 population thought that homosexuals should be killed. Over the Channel, quite a few did, but we fought them.

      • Franky

        I don’t know either. But I also don’t know what percentage of British Muslims are in favour of that either. The survey result that we are discussing concerned making homosexual acts illegal. And you do realise that wanting something illegal does not necessarily mean that you advocate killing transgressors, right? I suspect that not everybody who thinks stealing should be illegal believes that it should be punished with hanging even though it was a hanging offense under British law until well into the 19th century.

        And by the way, although I know that rewriting history is popular these days, Britain didn’t fight the second world war in defense of homosexual rights..

  • stuartMilan

    the PC brigade have also got round this by severly limiting what articles on The Guardian may take comments and then aggressively moderating those comments which don’t toe the line. talk about cognitive dissonance…

  • andrew

    At the moment the Muslim population in Britain is said to be around 1-2%. So when questions are asked as to whether the Muslim population may one day ‘take over’ Britain, we can probably conclude any possible Islamic take over is far down the line.

    However, there is a possibility that the wrong question is being asked; because I think what most people are concerned about is something more realistic.

    And I would formulate the question like this:

    I acknowledge that the British Muslim population currently sits around 2%. And yet I am acutely aware of the affects of their presence, and the exponential influence of the Muslim demographic in Britain is already quite assertive, widespread and overt.

    So I must ask – what will the exponential influence of Muslims in Britain be like when their demographic reaches 10%?

    Of course this question isn’t being asked. Because it is both symbolic of a future that will most likely occur, and therefore exists as a difficult sell for the left.

    And this brings me to my next point:

    Anti-Islam organisations like PEGIDA are not just protesting Islamic extremism – and the component of terror associated within, they are protesting against the literal transformation brought about by a perceived Islamisation of European towns and cities.

    And I would have to query – are they wrong?

    And if a local, indigenous European feels their city is slowly transforming into a non-European, Islamic enclave, due to the many changes implemented upon the request of a continually growing, influential – yet imported Muslim community, is it right to simply tarnish this individual as a ‘racist’?

    I would say no. And I suspect if a Muslim nation was forced to undergo drastic religious and cultural changes for the benefit of an imported European influx, I suspect the left would feel an obligation to support the indigenous Muslims.

    Back to my first question:

    UK and European politicians are refusing to have a conversation about the possibility of a future that most researchers estimate will be felt by Europeans within only 30 years. It is a future in which imported Muslim communities are no longer stuck at the minimal 2% margin, and have actually grown to 10% or more. Therefore the Europe many of us have always known, will no longer be the same.

    And this is where the left – and the establishment right, would rather openly describe those with intellectual concerns as ‘racist’.

    • Shazza

      Correction. The muslim population is circa 5% (official figure) and this demograph historically has doubled every decade.
      As our friends across the pond say “Do the math”.

      • andrew

        Thanks. So that works out to about 3M?

        • Shazza

          I think that was according to the last census 2011 – 5 years ago. I would presume to say that I think this figure is underestimated as is our overall population.

    • Alex Rees

      I agree wholeheartedly with all you’ve said. It’s a cliche but it is true that the “liberal” elite mostly live in comfortable gentrified areas and are simply not effected by immigration on a day to day basis.

      One point of fact: I think it is a fairly well established fact that the Muslim population is more like 4-5%: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_Kingdom

    • Trofim

      The Muslim population has influence out of all proportion to its numbers, even at this very low level. It doesn’t bear thinking about what influence it might have with even 20% of the general population.

      • andrew

        Well said.

    • trobrianders

      Long before their number reaches 10%, instinct will have taken over from leftist intellect in policy-making. We will have resorted to internment and repatriation by then to rid us of the scourge.

    • gosh

      I will tell you what may happen when the minority reaches 10%, as it all looks too familiar.
      It’s unbelievable that the history is repeating itself.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#Interwar_period_1918.E2.80.931939
      Check the “Interwar period” and the similarities, in both minority and majority attitudes then and now, may really surprise you. I do realise these two religious groups are in many ways different but social mechanisms stay the same.

    • Mara Naile-Akim

      ‘So I must ask – what will the exponential influence of Muslims in Britain be like when their demographic reaches 10%?’

      in russia it’s far higher, and the influence isn’t really being felt

  • Hybird

    What Muslims really think is only a shock for those who have never asked them any questions. Time and time again we have Muslims appearing on our TV screens who are fawned over (Mo Farah? Nadya Hussein?) and assumed to be “moderates” because they do not shout “Allahu Akhbar!” all the time. But nobody ever asks them anything. Just a few relevant questions put to any Muslim will quickly reveal that “moderate Muslims” just don’t exist. Not one of them will condemn the barbaric punishments in the Koran or the barbaric actions of the “prophet.” I’ve tried it – and they will not condemn one tiny thing. Ask about wife-beating (Koran 4:34) and you get something like “It’s OK if it’s done gently with a little stick”!

    • Geoffmd

      One persons moderate is another persons extremist, Most “practising” Christians believe homosexuality is wrong, the only difference is action or non-action

      • polidorisghost

        “One persons moderate is another persons extremist, Most “practising” Christians believe homosexuality is wrong, the only difference is action or non-action”

        You bring new depth to the term “In denial”

        • Geoffmd

          So you deny that most practising Christians are opposed to homosexuality?

          • Tom Cullem

            What practising Christians actually THINK is, it may surprise you to find, not a letter for letter acceptance of everything directed at them. Christians used to burn people at the stake (“Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live”) – are we burning witches at the stake today? Christianity has evolved. Islam has not.

            All you need to do is look at all the women in Britain looking out at the world through a little slit in their veils to see the difference.

            I watched in cynical amusement last year as Nicky Morgan bawled “This has no place in modern 21st Britain!” as a few hundred Belzers in London tried to enforce a ban on women driving their kids to school because it was “immodest”.

            I have yet to hear Morgan point a finger at the burqa, which also has no place on the streets of modern 21st century Britain.

            So, why do you suppose Morgan is willing to point a finger at, oh, maybe 600 people in a tiny extreme Jewish sect, but NOT at the tens of thousands of women in burqas in our streets?

            Hint: Pandering to a larger voting bloc? Moral relativism? What the BBC will say? Lady Warsi, or worse, Polly Toynbee hunting her down in a car park and lecturing her on the beauties of “tolerance”?

            Do you know how many women in England and Wales have been affected by FGM over the last 30 years or so? Conservatively, 130,000. 1 in 20 girls in Southwark are still at risk, because their parents want them to find “respectable” husbands in the community – and “the community” clearly isn’t England.

            Stop setting up straw men. Phillips is absolutely right: “We have ‘understood’ too much, and challenged too little.”

            And we are paying a very heavy price for it, as will our grandchildren.

          • Geoffmd

            Islam cannot evolve it has to be practised as it is written, do you actually know anything about the Islamic faith? Whether you like it or not Orthodox/Conservative Christians still believe that Homosexuality and divorce are wrong, the only difference is the number of actual practising Christians left in the west is quite minimal, And FGM is more cultural than religious anyway so I think you are confusing the 2….and as far as dress codes go where do you draw the line? should school kids rebel from wearing a uniform, should I refuse to wear a suit to work, maybe people should be free to walk around naked?

          • You’re an idiot Geoff. Just my observation.

          • Geoffmd

            Thats great, your opinion doesnt bother me in the slightest…

          • Well even the FACTS don’t bother you so I’m not in the least surprised.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            It’s not an opinion.

          • Tom Cullem

            Give it a rest, son. Conservative Christians aren’t throwing gays off the roof and in this Christian country where the heir to the Throne must be a member of the CoE, the laws against homosexuality were taken off the books decades ago, if a bit later than they should have been.

            I don’t support adultery, generally, but I’m compassionate enough to know that life is more grey than black and white, and we’ve learnt a great deal about biology in the last 2,000 years. I blend that with my Christian heritage.

            Institutions are always a bit behind the times. Adultery is wrong, but I’m not about to stone anyone in the town square, either.

            You remember that story, right, also part of Christian heritage? “Let him who is without sin cast the first stone”?

            They’re still stoning adulteresses in the ME. You don’t see a difference? Then you’re blind.

          • Geoffmd

            But your confusing Heritage with actual religious practise…what you are basically saying is that the Christian faith is no longer truly practised in the west as it has been watered down over the centuries due to its ability to adapt to modern life, unfortunately the Islamic faith is forbidden from change as that is anti-islam…

          • Sarka

            Actually, the problem is not so much with some general belief that “homosexuality is wrong” but how wrong one thinks it and what one proposes to do about it. Quite a number of mainstream Christians and Christian leaders think gay marriage is wrong, but it is rare (in UK and Europe) to find any who believe that homosexuality should be recriminalised, let alone that it should merit the death penalty. Most Christians think that adultery is wrong (and even quite a number of atheists may believe it to be in general a bad thing), but they do not believe it should be a criminal offence, let alone a capital criminal offence.
            It’s easy to make soothing noises about how “socially conservative” Muslims are just the same as “socially conservative” other religionists, but um…on most of the issues concerned (such as homosexuality, sexual freedom, the place of women etc…even freedom of speech), some mere attribution of “negativity” covers rather large differences on penalties and generally the best way of ensuring social order. I’m afraid that very few Western Catholics or mainstream Protestants incl. Anglicans would support the criminalisation of homosexuality…and most would be horrified at the idea of the death penalty for it…
            As far as I can tell, one interesting omission from the survey was a question on apostasy….

          • “I have yet to hear Morgan point a finger at the burqa, which also has no place on the streets of modern 21st century Britain.”

            I’m afraid the Burqua very much does have a place on the streets of Britain. Try walking around Luton or ANY large British city where these people live and you’ll soon see.

          • Tom Cullem

            I meant in theory, of course. The Belzers, poor sods, gave in to pressure and withdrew their attempt to ban women driving their kids to school. The burqa not only isn’t going anywhere, it will probably blossom across Europe.

            That is how cultures are overwritten. It’s all about numbers.

          • Geoffmd

            And you dont think that people should be free to wear what they want?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            It’s double standards. Would I get served in a bank if I walked in wearing a balaclava or a motorbike helmet?
            Probably not.
            What about the safety aspects of driving whilst wearing the Islamic garb?

          • Damaris Tighe

            The Belzers are an example of the numbers game. A small fraction of an already small community, we may not like their customs but they have zero influence on the wider society. Small immigrant communities can be ignored as long as they’re peaceful. But the muslim population is now large enough in absolute numbers, and concentrated enough in many areas, to exert clout.

            For me, the lesson isn’t that all immigrants should completely assimilate desirable though that may be. The lesson is, no country should ever take in an alien population in such numbers that it will be game-changing for wider society.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            It is a DESERT outfit, it has no place in modern Western societies, and should only be worn in desert storms. It scares children, it makes people feel uncomfortable,it’s dangerous, anti social and inhumane.

          • I completely agree.

          • Conway

            It’s also a political statement; “I reject your culture and norms”.

          • polidorisghost

            Nope
            Suggest dude consults dictionary.

      • Hybird

        Prominent Christians ( Tim Farron?) get asked probing questions about gay marriage, female bishops etc. MusIim politicians, celebrities and athletes are never asked anything. Mo Farah is a devout Somali MusIim, for instance. FGM is a practice carried out by all devout Somali MusIims. Mo has twin girls. He’d actually be a fantastic front man for an anti-FGM campaign, wouldn’t he? I mean, he’s the most famous Somali on the planet. You’d think somebody might ask him about FGM; but no – nobody dares because it would spoil the illusion.

        • Geoffmd

          Has anyone ever actually asked him to front this? probably not…

        • justejudexultionis

          People are too scared to approach Muslims, let alone ask them anything, because they know that the reaction could be nasty, and even violent. In some cases, the reaction could even prove fatal to the questioner. We need to stand up to these Muslim hypocrites and expose their death cult for what it is.

          • Geoffmd

            I have known more white people commit violent acts than my Muslim friends so you statement is complete nonsense!

          • Hybird

            You have no MusIim friends. Allah repeatedly forbids MusIims from having non-Muslim friends in the Koran. Do you really think they’d admit you were their friend when they’re down at the mosque? You’ve been duped.

            “We smile in their faces and curse them in our hearts is an old Muslim saying.”

            BTW – These violent white people – were they following the example of their “prophet”? lslam is a violent, intolerant, misogynistic, supremacist ideology and their role model was a mass-murdering warlord. That’s the problem we have.

          • Geoffmd

            What you are advocating is the abolishment of a religion are you not? if you are suggesting that islam is banned in the UK then good luck..

          • Hybird

            I am. Thanks. Allowing Islam into the West is proving to be the biggest mistake made in the entire history of Western civilisation. It’s high time the mistake was corrected. We don’t want to end up like the Copts.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Start with the self confessed islamists, then see how many more extremists crawl out of the woodwork complaining. That’s your second tranche and so on. When you get to the truely moderates everything goes quiet and the problem has gone.
            Probably left with enough to fill a minibus.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame the 99%. Right.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Do I? Is that what I said? Quite obviously not Leon

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim your post does obviously not exist.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            My post exists , but you ignore the content.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            But your entire problem is because I don’t ignore it.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Or answer any questions. Define far right Leon.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            You see and hear no evil so it must be alright.
            Now that’s nonsense.

      • They generally don’t advocate punishing them for it though, and I certainly can’t recall any Christian society throwing them off buildings or hanging them for it in the last three hundred years.

        • Geoffmd

          Oh well thats OK then…as long as they dont practise their religion properly we are OK !

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Why are you bothered about people who are not following the religion?

            You would squeal with joy if a Christian did something so barbaric for religion.

            That is how sick and deranged leftard liberals are.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your inventions are just that, as you blame others for your issues.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            And you are still an annoying troll as you once again miss the point.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You still demand I fit your PC image, as I get the point and you get annoyed because of it.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Errrrrr …… No.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And yet your posts exists.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        You’ll probably find that they have no problem with homosexuality. It’s the sodomy that they probably object to.
        That Is what they will perceive to be unnatural.

        Admittedly it is not something that has ever appealed to me, but there you go.

  • gareth

    Clearly we need to support the sane 48% of them and deport what we can of the crazy 52%

    • Tom Cullem

      Deport them to where? If they were born here, there is nowhere to deport them.
      We can’t even deport the 1,000+ migrant children who got in last year, and for whose welfare in places like Kent, actual English children in care are being moved out of their home county – to make room for the migrant children who will, of course, eventually bring over the clever relatives who got the kiddies in first. And so it goes, ballooning, ballooning, ballooning whilst people like Cameron and May throw up their hands and talk about “unrealistic targets but don’t worry, vote IN and promise, promise, we DO have a plan!” And Corbyn and his lot talk about the wonders of multiculturalism.

      • foxoles

        Tim Farron and Hilary Benn on yesterday’s Daily Politics were still harping on about how ‘we’ need to ‘do our bit’ for the foreign children. No mention of the indigenous needy at all.

        • They don’t care about them. EVERY council house or social housing home given to a needy Syrian family is just one less home for a British family in trouble. Anyone would think we had no needy British families or children in trouble. We can drag in Middle Easterners though and Farron and Corbyn would bring in a whole lot more than Dodgy Dave will, you can be sure.

          • Conway

            Dave hasn’t exactly stemmed the flow, has he?

          • No he has not. He has been singularly useless.

        • Tom Cullem

          Citizenship in the EU these days is only relevant when they want your taxes and your IN vote. Beyond that, it is meaningless.

      • Geoffmd

        “actual English Children”? Seriously what planet are you from?

        • Tom Cullem

          And seriously, what planet have you been hiding on as both the Guardian (reluctantly) and the Express have recently acknowledged that English children in care in Kent have been moved out of their home county to make room for the migrant children. And yes, they are “actual English children” – children born here and authentic citizens of this country, who are being moved outside their home counties to make room for migrant children. What is your bloody problem with facts?

          • Geoffmd

            My problems is your interpretation of what a fact is..you mean white kids i suppose and I disagree with you

          • Tom Cullem

            So, your assumption is that all the children in care are white? I made no such assertion because in fact I don’t know, and in fact, neither did the articles themselves, which only mentioned that English children in care were being moved to make room for the migrant children. They made no mention of colour. Neither did I.

            The “white” bit, mate, was entirely your assumption. Perhaps you should check out the demographics of children in care in Kent. I haven’t. That is entirely your assumption.

            And you know what happens when you “ass-u-me”. And btw, amongst the most vocal opponents of high levels of immigration are recent immigrants themselves. The black British community is being outstripped in numbers and importance by the Muslim community. If you think they aren’t concerned about it, think again. Two recent instances of abuse of Muslims on public transport were by black English.

            Demographics are power; demographics are history. It always has been and always will be about power.

            Just ask the Sioux.

          • Geoffmd

            Your statement was “Actual English Children” which you meant pale faced kids..

      • gareth

        That iswhy I said we can, those that are born here should sadly stay, how ever if they weren’t born here they should be deported.

        • Geoffmd

          And as for the thousands of criminal white chavs in this country should we deport them somewhere as well?

          • gareth

            If they are immigrants then 100% they should deported to their country of origin, if they were born here no they shouldn’t.

    • justejudexultionis

      No. Any Muslims who refuse to abjure their faith should be deported.

      • Geoffmd

        So your a communist then?

    • Conway

      Who are the “sane 48%”? If they are muslims, they follow the koran. That exhorts them to lie to the unbeliever to promote islam (taqiyya and kitman), to practise jihad and not to rest until all the world submits (that’s the meaning of islam) to the word of allah, by violence if necessary. Islam is totally incompatible with Western values and it has no place here.

  • kitten

    There’s no such thing as ‘Islamophobia’; it’s just an inane, meaningless, recently made up word to silence debate on Islamofascists who’s ideology comes from Wahhabbism.

    If you look at countries where Wahhibbism is prevalent (Pakistan and Saudi Arabia) where you can be killed for blasphemy, you can see the folly of allowing these people to create apartheid in our country.

    • Geoffmd

      Well thats akin to saying racism doesnt exist…are you seriously telling me that there arent large sections of society that are anti islam?

      • kitten

        What a ridiculous analogy. Racism is when one thinks their race is superior to other races; “Islamophobia” means nothing as its made up, but no one has an irrational fear of Islam.

        • Geoffmd

          Errrr anti islam!

          • Anna Bananahammok

            What do you call Muslims slaughtering Muslims? The Ummah, LOL?

          • kitten

            Islam is a religious ideology people choose to follow in this country.

            Race is a biology distinction determined by your parents race/races.

            You’re conflating two completely different subjects as religion can be chosen and race cannot, religion can be hidden race cannot; so you’re either being divisive or you’re not very bright.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, that excuse for bigoted hate, as you once more show your ideology…

          • kitten

            The one one who hates is you, you demented stalking troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You’re blaming me for your posts again, as you deny your anti-Muslim posts now…

          • kitten

            You’re a deranged coward that stalks women online.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not you.

          • kitten

            No you are not me. You’re a nasty, vile stalker.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you say I’m not you, but then you say you are like you.

            Make your mind up!

      • Leon Wolfeson

        One, it’s Kitten – as you’re disagreeing with her, expect barrages of abuse.
        Two, the attempts to redefine racism to suit that ideology..

        Never mind, as you note, the arrant hostility… (Kitten’s also expressed anti-male, anti-Jewish, anti-German…)

        • kitten

          You’re proving yet again what a demented fascist stalker you are.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “demented fascist stalker”

            Keep screaming that fact and my being Jewish mean to you, in your Orwellian far right hate…

          • kitten

            Look at you going mental again.

            You are just a fascist that stalks women online.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Look at you screaming Jews are mental, as you say I’m you.

          • kitten

            The only one that screams “Jews are mental” is you, you anti-semite troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame me for your posts, and claim I as a Jew am magically anti-Semetic.

          • kitten

            You’re not Jewish you’re a nasty piece of work.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “UR NO JEW, JEW”.

            And no, Ms. Nasty Piece of Work…I’m not you.

          • kitten

            You’re a nasty racist that stalks British people because you’re a nasty racist.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not like you.

          • kitten

            No. You are not me. You stalk and harass British people because you are a vile racist.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim I’m not you, but then say I act like you.

            Make your mind up!

          • kitten

            Oi nutjob, no one likes you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you talk to yourself, and note nobody likes you. Which you’d know.

            Right.

          • kitten

            What a pathetic loser you are. Stalking British people and harassing us because you’re a nasty supremacist that thinks you can bully the British.

            You are pathetic.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You’re blaming me for your actions and beliefs, over and over. Spouting off odd fantasies, with no basis other than your love of abuse and hate.

            Your multiple personalities are one person, as well, and your exceptionalist beliefs…

          • kitten

            Look at you. What a coward . Trying to bully a women online.
            You’re pathetic. You’re a pathetic cowardly bully.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not you, as you try and switch argument again, spinning more fantasies…

          • kitten

            Anyone that looks can see you harassing me. You’re a coward. You wouldn’t dare harass me in real life because you’d be arrested you demented coward

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim to be anyone.

            And you seem to think your harasment and name-calling is acceptable, check.

          • kitten

            You are a racist coward. That’s why you stalk and harass people online.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not you. As you blame me for your actions.

          • kitten

            Your actions are all over the Spectator and DT for anyone to see.

            You harass and stalk British people because you are a nasty supremacist.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Correct. And they are not yours.

          • Planet Vague ✓ᵛᵉʳᶦᶠᶦᵉᵈ

            Now that’s more than true. You’re not a moron for one thing!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define far right Leon. You ignorant troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I’m not you, as you whine on your refusal to accept your enemy, English…

          • TartanTerrier

            Whine spew jew hate spew whine hate etc etc

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define the term Leon. Or take your idle nonsense somewhere else.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Pander to you and give you a potential entirely semantic escape, as you whine on for your belief in censorship…

            Or just go with English. Hm!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define the term Leon. You dare not because you know you are smearing people with an emotive term.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Pander to you, as you make up crap, and try and suppress debate by saying describing someone’s views is an “emotive term”, you’re just an orwellian censor.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Then define the term.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Then pander to your attempts to wriggle out, blah blah…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define it and I’ll tell you if you are anywhere close to the mark.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Try and let you wriggle out on semantics. No.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Define the term and you could end all this shyte.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, you will keep posting shyte, especially if I let you wriggle out from your clear hardline extremist views this time.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            What view are they Leon. Define the term. If you haven’t noticed I can be a determined soul.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, pander to you… I notice you’ve come out with your threats of violence elsewhere yes.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I suspect your definition of violence has about as much substance as your far right label. I.e. shallow and without foundation.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you make excuses for Fash violence, check.

            As you try and deny the raging fanaticism you have, including your stated intent to do violence unless people not like you are purged… you’re clearly far right.

            I agree you’re suspicious.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Provide evidence and a definition of that label you love so dearly and maybe this sorry excuse for dialogue can move forward.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you demand I pander to you and your refusal to admit your views in your own posts…
            As you what, will send thugs if I do?

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            The way you taunt its almost like you want someone to do so.
            Are you one of those fetish weirdos?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I’m not like you, no, as you try and make excuses for your far right again.

            Non-payer, you need a good tax audit.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Are you sure you are not itching to be knocked around a bit. Seems to me like you are gagging for it.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes yes, same old excuses for your desire for violence.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Sorry, I thought we were talking about your desires and fetishes.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yea, not thinking is your specialty, I know that, geez!

    • Larzlaff

      An “inane, meaningless” word that someone called “kitten” uses to express a meaning…..Dickhead.

      • kitten

        Inane and meaningless could also be applied to your pathetic ad hominem reply.

    • trobrianders

      Always worth repeating. “Islamophobia, a word created by fascists, and used by cowards, to manipulate morons.” – Hitchens, Cummins

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So you dent words, as you talk about how it should be your ideology and your apartheid, in the country you want to take away from it’s people and give it to your extremists.

      You’ll now prove this with a screaming torrent of personal hate and accusations. 3, 2, 1, go!

      • kitten

        Oh look. My demented stalker is stalking me again.

        Do you think stalking women is sane you deranged nutter?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          “Do you think stalking women is sane you deranged nutter?”

          You ask yourself if your stalking… sigh.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            PS, “You’ll now prove this with a screaming torrent of personal hate and accusations”

            Called it! The Abuse Anti-Cat is at it again.

          • kitten

            Obviously you do; but then you’re a lunatic.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “UR LUNATIC”, as you obviously spew hate at a Jew, blaming me for your issues.

          • kitten

            You are a demented fascist that stalks women online because you’re inadequate and insane.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not you and your issues, Jewhater.

          • kitten

            No you are not me. You are a demented troll that stalks women online.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you say I’m not you, then say I am you.
            You can’t even make your mind up in your hate…

          • kitten

            You can’t even form a coherent argument you demented troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your poor English skills… are yours.

          • kitten

            My nasty stalker is back.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You are? Well then.

          • kitten

            Look at you stalking me. What a nasty racist you are.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, the equating replying, any replying, with “stalking”.

            And the wild accusations entirely invented by you…

          • kitten

            All you do is stalk and harass British people. You’re a nasty racist.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not you.
            And no, I don’t share your views.

          • kitten

            And you are still stalking me you demented coward.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame me for your stalking fantasy, and blame me for your issues, and…

          • kitten

            No one likes you here. No one. Because you are a nasty racist that stalks and abuses people.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you, no one, likes me? k.

            As you speak for only yourself, as you blame me for your posts.

          • kitten

            Look at you. You’re demented. No one likes you. No one. You’re horrible. You’re a nasty cyber troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “UR DEMENTED”
            “I LIKE U”
            “UR HORRIBLE”
            “UR TROLL”

            You’re *creepy*. Your repeated, baseless fantasies, as you apparently see me as some kind of god to live up to…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            It’s not just women he stalks kitten. He’s a mentally challenged troll.

          • kitten

            He’s utterly deranged. I once corrected a post of his and he’s been stalking me ever since.
            Having seen his other posts I agree with you. He’s an insane stalking troll.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I am not like you, as you claim replies are stalking like your buddy there.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Your form suggest otherwise Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So the magical form you’ve invented and assigned to me in your head… as you factually support the contention made by Anti-Cat that replying is stalking…

  • Geoffmd

    Lets get this straight, the majority of Muslims are as peaceful as any other section of society in the UK…FACT…its a fact because its born of the stats on violent crime etc…now you have to move on to the question of views rather than action…why do “most” British Muslims believe that Homosexuality etc are wrong, well its because it says so in the Koran, as it does in the Bible etc…so still no real difference between “practising” members of most faiths Islam included…so next you move on to why is Islam going through a period in which a section of their following are murdering innocents and carrying out acts of “terrorism”…well there are generally 2 reasons for this…A. Islam is rigid, the word of god as stated in the Koran is not editable, it is to be practised as it is written and not to be deviated from, if it says Gays deserve to stoned to death then there isnt an islamic figure head (like the pope), that can amend the religious view or practise. B. Due to the aforementioned Muslim majority countries in the main (UAE besides) have not “PROGRESSED” into the 21st Century as per the Western Model and have therefore not benefited as much economically therefore created a large illiterate poor that are easily manipulated into believing that all the worlds ills are caused by the greedy oppressive west and how they persecute Muslims (partly true), You then have the knock on effect of those Muslims growing up in the west and seeing “innocent” Muslims dying in drone attacks thus enraging them and them wanting to go and protect their “innocent” Muslim brothers and sisters as the Koran says you have a duty to do so, You also have the issue of a Muslims duty to spread their religion and how this should be done, which is an even bigger can of worms, so as you can see, most of what you are told either by the media or politicians is self serving non-sense…Good luck to all !!

    • kitten

      Violent crime statistics are completely unreliable thanks to Keir Starmer politicising the CPS.

      They’ve been known to refuse to prosecute some violent crimes committed by Muslims amongst others, with the excuse that it “wasn’t in the public interest”.

      • Tom Cullem

        Cf. the Swedish government ordering Swedish law enforcement to stop identifying the ethnicity of sexual crime perps when it became obvious what a large percentage of them were men “of immigrant background”.

        • Geoffmd

          And again you have evidence of this happening in the UK?

          • trobrianders

            What’s the point. You will reject all evidence. You are a rabid ideologue.

      • Geoffmd

        And you have evidence of this? Cant say I have ever heard that latest conspiracy theory…

        • boultonzz .

          Rotherham

        • The Reincarnated Sausage

          Rotherham

          Nothing more to be added

      • SunnyD

        Not that I’m defending the CPS (assuming what you say is true) but perhaps they don’t want to increase the Muslim’s share of the prison population? Some reports claim that inmates are being intimidated http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9298578/Prisoners-under-pressure-to-convert-to-Muslim-gang.html

        • kitten

          I’ve heard accounts of prisoners converting in prison as they’re afforded protection from fellow Muslims plus you’re allowed out of your cell more often.

          • SunnyD

            yes, that was a reason I played my Catholic card when spending time inside too. In regards to Islam, some of them even think they get better food! You soon see who the “real” Muslims are when Ramadam comes along….

      • Leon Wolfeson

        And that excuse for it… as you spew hate about Muslims here, as you attack a key tenant of the legal system in this country…

        • kitten

          You know nothing about Britain you misogynistic stalker.

          Look at you, proving yet again how insane you are.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            A Jew posted and is hence insane, you say, as you scream hate at me and say you magically wiped information out of my mind.

            In fact, you just attacked the British legal system. As you blame me for your actions.

        • Nanoaggressive

          shut up Jew. Go find a gharqad tree to hide behind so Muslims don’t achieve their “final hour”. Try to keep the rocks quiet.

          idiot

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, be terrorized by you, Mr. idiot, as you want me to help your equally fanatic.. (to any Islamist…)

    • MBS

      So, what’s your point?

    • trobrianders

      I’ve spent thousands of hours in over a hundred Muslim households conversing in native tongue and the reality is far far worse than even these damning statistics suggest. You are peddling ideological lies about Muslims. I’m guessing you are a white lefty who knows nothing of what he speaks. Why seek knowledge when you have ideology?

      • Geoffmd

        Your statement makes literally zero sense without context…

        • trobrianders

          What do you know of the private feelings of Muslims? I can tell from your remarks you know absolutely nothing. After all why would a Muslim want to spend any time or trust on a filthy white kuffar as they see you. And if you are black than to racist Asian Muslims you are little more than a monkey. I on the other hand know their private thoughts completely. Remain in denial. You are a completely lost person. A waste of time.

          • Geoffmd

            I grew up with muslims and have also read the Koran thanks, the fact is you havent actually disagreed with a single point I have made so either come back with an alternative narrative or buzz off !

          • trobrianders

            My experience trumps your ideological nonsense with every reader on this board.

          • Geoffmd

            so again no actual response because you have no clue

          • trobrianders

            We’ll let other responders decide.

          • Nanoaggressive

            You guys are right. Geoff doesn’t want to talk about Mohammad. When you encounter a leftard that avoids Mohammad then he might be a Muslim appropriating an Anglo name to spread disinformation and sow support for the continued invasion of Muslims.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, that conspiracy theory, as you preach hate…like those you supposedly decry ..

          • Nanoaggressive

            eat chit Jew. Keep it up and in public. Jews that help Muslims are being tracked

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, the threats, because I don’t automatically hate Muslims…

          • Nanoaggressive

            days

            If you are a Jew, why do you support a group that states as one of its goals to kill every Jew on earth to bring about the “final hour” (aka the Apocalypse)?

            Youdumbshit

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I do *not* support you and your group.

          • Nanoaggressive

            I’m no follower of Mohammad. Every Muslim is REQUIRED to follow Mohammad.

            If you side with Mohammad and his army than you deserve to be summarily executed.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And? How does this excuse your group, which you described?

            As you call for mass murder…showing how fanatical you are.

          • Nanoaggressive

            You are nothing more than a Capo

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “UR CAPO”

            Ah, more wild accusations.

          • Nanoaggressive

            You would know, Jews are great at making accusations with no substance.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Nope, that’s you doing more collectivist, PC bigotry.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Will you just trot on Leon. You being nothing of note to the table.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, other views must be dismissed, running dog riding snood.

          • trobrianders

            Possibly but I know so many white leftards that spout this propaganda. There’s no shortage of them. The loonyversities have been spewing them out for decades.

          • upinthehills

            The mere content of his arguments proves he knows nothing about Islam. Unbelievable when he says the figures are untrue oh yes they are untrue they portray a people far more moderate than anyone like me who works and lives among know is true. All this nice middle class Geoff probably knows about them is what he’s read in the Guarduan. Or perhaps he met a nice doctor from the subcontinent at a dinner party he needs to spend some time in certain areas of former mill towns up here then he might know something.

    • Re the ‘innocent Muslims dying in drone attacks’.

      I am sure that some innocent Muslims do die in drone attacks BUT……

      In the case of both Islamic State and the Taliban and AQ in Iraq during the ill fated Iraq war, the Muslim extremist organisations kill ten times as many Muslims at least as any western forced eve did and I include the rather trigger happy American forces in that statement. The deaths of innocent Muslim bystanders in Afghanistan went through the roof when western forces left. There was a spectacular hike in car bombings IEDs and general shootings. As for DAESH in Iraq and Syria the deaths of ordinary folk from the region are truly shocking. It is an absolute lie that WE are the problem. Left to their own devices these Islamic lunatics will slaughter all who are not like them. They are doing right now.

      • Geoffmd

        But thats the point about them manipulating uneducated individuals and blaming all ills on the west, and any innocent victim of a drone strike will create more terrorists thats just a fact

        • That’s only a fact because Muslims are prone to take up terrorism, which as it happens was one of the points made in last night’s documentary. About quarter of Muslims were sympathetic to violence as a way of getting what you want. You’ve just confirmed that although you don’t want it said,it is in fact true.

          • Geoffmd

            OMG do you actually think that muslims woke up one day and said oh lets be a terrorist you idiot…do you even know why Osama Bin Laden targeted the US in the first place?

          • Hybird

            Mohammad said “I have been made victorious with terror.” He was the first Islamic terrorist. He was a murder, a slave-dealer and a rapist. He is the ultimate role model for ISIS, Boko Haram, Al-Shebab etc.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            OMG. They have had terrorist tendencies for 14 centuries. Ever since the first terrorist used terror to strike fear into the hearts of the unbeliever. That’s right the founder.
            You are extremely naive if you think Islamic terror is recent history.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      Post your stats. Muslims make up more than 13% of the prison population. Very much over represented. That is likely to increase now we are finally started to bang them up for kiddie fiddling.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Ah, so you care about precisely 13% there…as you deny prior persecutions and…

        • LittleRedRidingHood

          Whatever the fck that means Leon.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, only English.

  • ohforheavensake

    Dear me, James; not a very clever argument. You haven’t actually looked at the poll, have you?

    Here’s a better analysis-

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9666

    Note one of the findings: that Muslims in the sample are slightly more likely to think of themselves as British than the rest of the population. And this section is also worth noting:-

    ” Asked about support for terrorism, British Muslims were more likely to say they were sympathetic to terrorism than the GB control sample, but the net figures were extremely low in both cases.

    Asked about organising radical groups, the GB control sample was the more sympathetic. 11% would sympathise, 74% condemn. Among British Muslims the figures were 6% sympathise, 75% condemn.

    Now asked about making threats of terrorism, 6% of British Muslims said they would sympathise, 79% condemn. The figures in the GB control sample were 2% sympathise, 95% condemn.

    Asked about actually committing terrorist actions, 4% of British Muslims said they would sympathise, 83% condemn. In the GB control sample 1% would sympathise, 95% would condemn.”

    – It’s not that I mind you having an opinion, James. I do mind you skewing the facts to fit the analysis.

  • Malcolm Stevas

    “..large numbers of Muslims don’t want to integrate……their views aren’t remotely enlightened, and……more than a few of them sympathise with terrorism. It’s only the establishment elite that has ever pretended otherwise.”
    Indeed. I always assumed that the indigenous majority knew these things, just as it has always been wholly clear about the “establishment elite” pretending to believe everything in the garden was rosy, while sweeping the truth under the carpet.
    I doubt “national cognitive dissonance” comes into it, for the reasons above: most of us were at the very least dubious about mass immigration, and more often resentful and baffled as to why our leaders were doing this to us. I haven’t met many so naive or retarded that they actually thought “Muslims are sweet, smiley and integrated”.
    Where the great majority are to blame is in allowing the established duopoly of Lab/Con to get away with it. People whinge & moan but just keep voting for the same duplicitous spivs who’ve shafted them for decades.
    If you really care about your country and hate what is being done to it, you cannot vote for any Left party – so that’s Labour, the Greens. LibDems and SNP out of the running. And based on their record of serial incompetence and spineless vacillation, you can’t vote Tory either. The BNP are dimwit nutters. This leaves UKIP. You might not like that, but the logic is inescapable.

  • Tom Cullem

    I see the apologists and deniers are out in full force this afternoon.

    Englishness is being erased from England. Small wonder the newcomers identify more as “British”. They haven’t lost anything: they’re imposing something on something else and claiming it. Actual English people are having something whittled away, deliberately, and in a deliberate effort to loosen their sense of “connection” to their own heritage. And, what do you know: it’s working.

    • Geoffmd

      Can you define Englishness? there is no such thing, nearly every single Englishman is an immigrant of some sort…

      • Malcolm Stevas

        Utter bollocks, one of the most egregiously stupid errors one hears usually only from very dim people. If you consult anthropologists, geneticists and so on, you will learn that the English – while of course closely related to other NW European peoples – are fairly distinct even today, and we’ve been here a long time. We are settled, established, as much as any people in the world, for millennia. To describe us as “immigrants” is crass.

        • upinthehills

          Great reply and so illogical when The English were behind the first modern nation state well over a thousand years ago – far more of a people than somewhere like Scotland which didn’t even exist until hundreds of years later and all genetic studies show are concentrated in a country (England) whose borders (excluding Cornwall) have been the same for well over a millennia. If anyone is a nation it is the English.

      • trobrianders

        Even sheep display more intelligence in their baaas than you do.

      • Tom Cullem

        Oh for god’s sake, and humanity evolved out of a little band of hominids who walked out of the African savannah 200,000 years ago, are we all African?

        Native Americans actually came from “somewhere else” 12,000 years ago, as well. Are they, ipso facto, then, not really “Native” Americans?

        As for defining Englishness – you can start with a deep seated respect for law. No such thing as English culture? Really? Literature, art, political system, poetry, our countryside that so powerfully informed so much of our art and literature, our language . . .

        Do you know what sorts of pressures are being exerted on our schools system in London where it is estimated now that 1 in ten children in primary school do not speak English?

        Language is the glue of culture. In Molenbeek, eight of the 11 imams do not speak the local language.

        Don’t go simple on us. The burqa has no place on English streets. Period. End of.

        • Geoffmd

          Universal respect for law is not exclusive to England you moron!

          • trobrianders

            Law is only worthy of the name if it commands majority consent. This type is exclusive to the West and a few of its former dependents. Everything else is gangster code. And it’s you who is the moron. If these were quieter times I wouldn’t find myself wishing you genuine ill.

          • Conway

            The rule of law is a concept we’ve exported to English speaking nations. Respect for the law is a different matter.

          • Jab

            My home island of sicily has no respect for the law , here its different.

      • lms2

        Yes, most “immigrated” to Britain 6-9000 years ago. The rest came over the remaining years in far, far fewer numbers than had been previously thought. And those few that did, “immigrated” at the point of a sword, i.e., more as as conquerors than peaceful settlers. Until 1945, only around 1% of the total population were so-called immigrants. Now it’s around 13%.

        • Geoffmd

          HAHA you have absolutely no clue about your own country, the Welsh are the only true indigenous people on this Island, even the Scottish originated from Ireland, your clearly a member of the KKK, shame your leader blew his head off in the bunker!

      • Penny

        Do you travel, Geoffmd? If so, do you find it pointless because you see no difference between your country and any other?

        It may be that my in-laws could not define “Egyptian-ness” but when they arrived in the UK as immigrants (they didn’t stay long), they certainly knew that they weren’t in Cairo. Everything was different from the obvious to the subtle because their lives had been shaped by a very different country and culture. These differences were, for them, “Englishness”.

        • Geoffmd

          My wife and daughter actually live in India, I see no real difference between people around the world just different stages of progression economically due generally to colonization which has held progression back in a lot of countries…

          • Penny

            What of value systems? Do you find no difference between those of India and those of the UK?

          • Geoffmd

            No, if anything the value systems in India are a lot more moral than the value systems in the UK…

          • Penny

            Well, I’m not so sure, but reconciling one’s own values to a culture is, I suppose, a personal thing. But anyhow – if you believe that India’s value systems are a lot more moral than that of the UK, then you have seen a difference between the two, and that difference helps define what is meant by “Englishness”.

          • Geoffmd

            Actually to come back to an earlier point…My wife moved here in 2006 after we had met whilst I was working in India, when she came here she was horrified that the illusion she had created in her mind about England and the English was a complete fabrication…people were not very polite including the use of the word P…, on quite a few occasions, the broken homes, the level of benefit fraud and dependency, the vile drinking culture, the lack of respect for elders, the detachment within families, the lack of proper education etc…this all resulted in my wife wishing to move back to Bangalore after my daughter was born and to be honest I couldnt disagree with her…

          • Penny

            Well, no – these aren’t great adverts for England, but it does rather depend on what you take as an overall picture of societal values. I admire the Indian people, but dislike the caste system. I also recall reading that the Indian government has had to legislate on the sale of acid due to the throwing of it in women’s faces. The shame/honour culture that causes honour killings is another “value” that doesn’t strike a chord for me – albeit that this is mostly found in northern India. I am also not in favour of capital punishment, which India retains. I understand that India has a welfare system of sorts, but many are still living with little or no protections.

            I think when you contrast and compare one society to another, you have to take a wider view than how individuals behave. I would agree with your wife about the behaviours you mention but there are also some pretty horrible individuals and practices in India.

      • LittleRedRidingHood

        Thanks to you cultural Marxist vandals. Keep trotting out the old ad homs. Do Americans see themselves as immigrants from a bygone age or americans? What about Australians?

        • Geoffmd

          For the record I pretty much the opposite of a marxist LOL

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            There is really nothing to laugh about. If you support this vile social engineering experiment called multiculturalism you are one of them.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, if you don’t hate that “vile social engineering experiment” of allowing i.e. Jews and Sihks… as you see “them”…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            What to jews and sikhs have to do with the ideology of multiculturalism?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Everything. They’re not part of your proposed Monocult, and thus would need to be purged.

            The only Monocult, North Korea, has been known to execute people for owning bibles.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No nothing.they have their culture, but so do we. No one is preventing you from keeping your culture alive in the community but you should not expect or allow said cultures to demand the host culture changes to accommodate your cultural practices.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, your political views are not a culture, as you demand your tiny minority’s hate dictate to everyone else what is and isn’t acceptable, as you try now to back away from the monocult calls, lol!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Your obsession with monoculture is worrying. There can be multiple ethicities but the host culture is sacrosanct.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your political views are not a culture. As you make up nonsense and backpeddle.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            No. You don’t even know what my political views are. You are conflating supposed political views with an observation of social engineering.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim I can’t read, Fash.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Indeed I do.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            And that just shows your bigotry.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            That is not bigotry. That is in direct reply to a question you posed.
            So no, I don’t believe you have competent comprehension skills.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you claim bigotry is not bigotry, as you spew more bigotry.

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Bigotry -intolerance towards those who hold different opinions from oneself.

            You asked a question, I answered. That is not bigotry.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your stream of posts, check.
            When your spewing that for my holding different views to yours, you make up nonsensical accusations like “U NO READ”.

            And you hold views utterly unlike any moderate…

            “Violence is inevitable”
            “There will be civil disorder”

            Etc. – sure, as you’re trying to cause them!

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            I prefer U NO WRITE well.
            You are quite obviously blind to the world around you. The supposed tolerant liberals and leftist are the most violent and fascistic of all. A trait seen at almost every demonstration and counter demonstration held in the UK for years. Violence is inevitable when the great unwashed social justice warriors show up.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, am I not obviously you, as you condemn normal people who happen not to hold your views.

            As you talk about yiur right’s agrgression, and say your violence when faced with people you magically decide are “SJW’s”…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Such violence, how do you cope?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I don’t walk down dark alleyways alone, for starters.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, so your fantasies about Marxists…

          • LittleRedRidingHood

            Look up the term. You may learn something.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Right. And… right, I knew that.

            Now, your turn.

  • The_Missing_Think

    Ha… ha… ha… in other words, the BNP were 100% right.

    As I’ve been explaining to you… oh so clever people… for years.

    Irrelevant anyway, as you’ll never vote for a ‘racist’ party… so you’re all well doomed.

    • Tom Cullem

      If they had ever had decent media expertise they could have done much more with their message. It needed sophisticated packaging, they never had the money for that. Look how well the Sweden Democrats are doing – the Swedish PM had to cut a deal with five other parties to vote as a bloc to keep the SDs from having any power after they got 25% of the vote in the last election. The BNP never got that far – groups like that never get sophisticated messaging advice.

      • The Reincarnated Sausage

        The BNP was subverted by MI5 agents planted within its ranks to destabilize and destroy it

        They are probably doing the same to UKIP and Carswell and Suzanne Evans will be helping them along

        • Tom Cullem

          Hmmm, never heard that but suppose it is possible. I think it quite telling that the only political entity who publicly warned about the situation in Rotherham was Griffin, and he simply got taken to court for hate speech for his pains.

      • The_Missing_Think

        That’s right, oh so clever person…. it’s still all the BNPs fault, you’re in the clear, as a ‘well educated’ person, that couldn’t understand the word ‘borders’, as it’s not dressed up enough, in a sophisticated package for you.

        So are you now ready to vote for the BNP?

        No?

        Oh… so what’s your lame excuse today then?

    • SunnyD

      the point to be made, if I may expand your point, is that instead of labelling them as “far right” people should have just admitted that Tommy Robinson (et al) WAS RIGHT – non?

      • The_Missing_Think

        More or less, but it’s, ARE RIGHT, not WAS RIGHT. I’ve edited my error,

        And they will be right forever, even when England becomes Englisphate, they’ll still be right.

        Orwell wrote about transferred Nationality… he fell short, it’s actually transferred raciality, this is why the English prefer to bend their necks to Islam, rather than bend their knee to the BNP, they’ve ended up more Semite, than European.

        • SunnyD

          I stand corrected (on a point of semantics), leaving aside the issue that I was referring to past actions/words. I am going to read a copy of 1984 thanks to some of the posters on this site, which reminds me of HG Wells’ “The Shape of Things to Come” in which he foresaw the rise of the European Superstate

          • The_Missing_Think

            I think it’s more than semantics though, it’s a mindset footprint, Two years ago, the AfD were an economics only party, then Merkel went invite crazy, and now the AfD are full blown ‘we want borders’ Nationalist. They had a mindset change, which shows, it is possible, ‘was’ / ‘were’, can become ‘are’… with some Europeans.

          • SunnyD

            true that, and thanks again

  • trobrianders

    Absolutely no mention in the broadcast media about the doc the day after it aired. And there’ll be no discussion in parliament naturally. The Lyin’ Media is destroying western civilisation.

    • Tom Cullem

      Daily Express and Telegraph covered it after TIMES published it. Guardian, politico.eu, still pretending it never appeared. Instead, yesterday, the Guardian published a survey claiming that Arab youth did not support IS and think that the Caliphate will fail.

      I noticed that the Guardian also ignored the ICM poll of a few days ago that put the OUT vote three percentage points ahead of IN and another putting the vote at a dead heat – hence the rush to trot Corbyn out there.

      What the media refuse to discuss is as potent a weapon as what they choose to discuss. Distasteful as it is, I find it helpful to visit all the echo chambers regularly.

      • justejudexultionis

        The Guardian is about as pro-Islamic as you can get but for some bizarre, irrational reason despises Christianity, which it seems to hold responsible for just about every evil in the world. I’m surprised the The Guardian has not yet accused Anglicans of being behind Islamic suicide bombings.

        • Tom Cullem

          Not irrational: they are cultural Marxists. Internationalism is the Holy Grail of such. If they have to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so be it.

          • trobrianders

            Cultural Marxists wet their pants at the thought of concentrations of power like global capital or the EU have amassed. Unable to establish a power base of their own they dream of stealing one from others like the hyenas they are.

      • trobrianders

        Thank you for your helpful reply but I was speaking specifically of the broadcast media which goes much farther in determining the quality of public discourse and which is far more culturally Marxist than the press.

        • Tom Cullem

          Ah. Thanks for clarification.

  • justejudexultionis

    Well said, Mr. Dellingpole. We must recognise Islam (including so-called ‘moderate’ Islam) for the bigoted, irrational death cult that it is. The collusion of multiculturalists on both left and right with these Islamic bigots in an attempt to wipe out our Judeo-Christian civilisation will go down as one of the most pernicious acts of treachery in history.

    • Wildflowers

      Not if Islam is writing the history books 🙁

  • The Reincarnated Sausage

    The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan

    The ethnic genocide of the white caucasian people across Europe and N America

    Sweden will fall first, France and Belgium will follow

    • Tom Cullem

      Well, it won’t happen in Hungary, will it? You now why? Hungarians voted for Fidesz and Orban. We are voting to stay in the EU who don’t give a fig for us, vote in Cameron, who works for the EU and its multinational corporatist paymasters, or Corbyn, who’d empty the land of the lot of us in a heartbeat.

      That’s why voting OUT on 23 June is so important. It’s a blow the traitorous lying hypocrite Cameron would never recover from, Corbyn’s support for IN will stick to him, and the EU which is so intent on destroying European cultures, will reel.

      Voting is on us. Vote IN, vote for people like Cameron and Corbyn, and don’t complain about the immigration numbers and your lost cultural patrimony. The EU and the politicians only understand one language: losing.

      • The Reincarnated Sausage

        Orban is a true national hero. I wish we had a leader like him

      • Hybird

        The Slovakian PM (whose name I forget) has stated that he will not allow Islam to take root in Slovakia. He has refused to let them settle in his country. Wise man.

    • Rbeastlondon

      Really? How?

  • Jenny_Tells

    Didn’t watch the programme and by so doing, the television lives on, not destroyed by a fit of anger and frustration. How has it come to this that our society is nursing a viper close to its bosom? All those years ago, a certain Enoch Powell warned what would happen when irreconcilable religions and cultures clash. Islam does not belong in Britain. It is still stuck in the Middle Ages. But it’s too late: the British public have been betrayed by its politicians, and now there is no obvious solution in sight.

    This article in the Daily Mail sums it up:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3539431/KATIE-HOPKINS-British-Muslims-Really-Think-know-s-terrifying.html

    Yes it is terrifying, and it will only get worse. Perhaps we should should start by banning Muslim faith schools where the indoctrination begins. The problem, as always, is that the host nation cannot be seen to be prejudiced against a specific religion, so all faith schools of whatever religion would have to be banned, and that will never happen.

    • justejudexultionis

      Well said, but much easier just to ban Islam entirely from this country. Such a policy works very well in Japan, where there are no suicide bombings.

      • red2black

        There are seven Mosques in Japan:
        Fukuoka Mosque
        Kobe Mosque
        Yokohama Mosque
        Edogawa Islam Bunka Center, Tokyo
        Asakusa Mosque, Tokyo – Kamata Mosque, Tokyo
        Tokyo Camii
        Whether Islam is banned and the Mosques are empty; I don’t know (?)

        • Leon Wolfeson

          It’s not. Have a link;

          http://www.snopes.com/muslims-in-japan/

          (Oh and I’m told *any* foreigner without good Japanese friends has a struggle to rent somewhere, not just Islamic people)

          • red2black

            I’ve seen that site – there was a chance something might have changed most recently.

  • justejudexultionis

    To cap it all, it seems we are about to get an Islamic bigot as mayor of London. These people should be barred from office. Anybody who adheres to a religious dogma that advocates deliberate lying to unbelievers (taqqiya and kitman) and death penalty for apostasy (in all four major schools of Islamic jurisprudence) is clearly not fit for government.

    • Tom Cullem

      They can be barred from office: by the voters. Oh wait: London is less than 50% Christian these days, ‘ere, how did that ‘appen?

      Oh, yes . . . . immigration.

      • Conway

        Not just immigration, even those who would normally be nominally Christian have had any adherence to Christianity systematically belittled.

    • Bill Fitzgerald

      How Kahn becomes the London Mayor is exactly what is happening nationwide. Muslims getting into government as councillors then as MPs. It is a fifth column working for our demise.

      • Conway

        Applauded by our dhimmi Prime Minister – search out the video of him saying he looked forward to a muslim PM.

  • Sean L

    This arithmetical interpretation falsifies the true nature of political life and allegiance. At the time of the Iraq war, all the polls showed a majority of Britons *opposed* to our involvement. But no one’s ever suggested that *Britain* wasn’t responsible for bombing Iraq merely because only a tiny number of Britons actually participated, with the majority of Britons against any military action whatever. And rightly so, because we *are* the British state – or to put it another way, there’s no *us* or *we* without a state. No one hates the actual agencies of the British state more than me: it’s just a truth of logic, an inescapable political fact.

    Of course Islam isn’t itself a state, in the legally constituted form implied by the British national state here. But surely the allegiance it commands is far greater in many respects than that enjoined by *any* man made institution, certainly by its own tenets. What isn’t at all tenable is the notion that military acts carried out in its name, throughout the world, throughout its entire military history of imperial expansion, are the sole responsibility of the individuals involved.

    If the reason we *are* the British state is that “we” wouldn’t and couldn’t exist without it – “state”, by definition, implying the military means to maintain its existence – the same is no less true, perhaps more so, of Islam. That doesn’t mean that every Muslim is culpable for 9/11, any more than every Briton for the bombing of Baghdad. But if collective responsibility applies to “us” as Britons, how can it not also apply to “us” as Muslims? Otherwise what does this collective identity consist in? For non-Europeans, at least as portrayed in public discourse, which dominates all others, it seems to be something of a pick and choose, cherry picking affair…

  • mr humphreys

    Why does everyone think Trevor Phillips is such an asset when its obvious he wants to hijack a debate he has nothing to do with but which he is using as a vehicle for his own wicked and nefarious designs. Can’t you see that? Are you so braindead that after all these years and all these Phillips reports you don’t suspect this man of being a card carrying Cultural Marxist and secret admirer of the writings of Coudenhove-Kalergi?

    Doesn’t he make himself very clear about his poisonous desire to racially integrate the indigenous white British with every black and brown Commonwealth interloper that ever descended on our British field of wheaten people like a hungry swarm of locusts?

    Isn’t it his declared single-minded genocidal purpose as Satan is his witness to destroy the white indigenous British by a policy agonising race miscegenation. A man like that is full of poison envy no doubt borne out of a particularly serious racial inferiority complex. Can’t stand the sight of him.

    • Aggie

      And I’m sure Trevor Phillips speaks highly of you, too. Dear me.

    • trobrianders

      Summed up very well. I look forward to a time when Cultural Marxists are hung from lampposts 1930s style. 40 years of leftist indoctrination has left our intellects powerless to resist but instinct will take over from intellect as the threat grows ever closer. I would not want to be a Muslim or a leftist in Europe when that happens.

      • Bill Fitzgerald

        Bring it on soon. The liberal scum have caused all this and should be made to pay.

  • AK

    This ICM survey does not demonstrate Muslims “opposing” British culture – as was broadcast this morning on the radio. The survey does not show Muslims demanding change or actively resisting British culture. They were asked a question, and a minority of Muslims answered no differently to Catholics and Jews!

    In fact, it is the liberals of today who would have clashed with British culture a few decades ago. Do you think their support for homosexuality was in line with mainstream British culture back then? Would you have banished liberals or liberal views because it clashed? But today, because Muslims THINK differently and despite not having made ANY demands for Britain to change – Muslims are made to feel like they are guilty of something! This is nothing but thought policing!

    Muslims in Britain are British citizens like any other faith group, and the democratic system should reflect that irrespective of whether their views are mainstream or not. It is that process that allowed for a modern, liberal Britain to develop and will continue to develop.

    Anyone who doesn’t believe in that fundamental principle is arguably far less British and ought to be called out for the illiberal views THEY hold.

    • antoncheckout

      Sorry, no, you don’t get a pass for demanding that we tolerate the intolerant.

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      A faith group? It’s a proactive theocratic movement, for God’s sake, go and read a book and stop watching Eastenders.

    • Malcolm Stevas

      “Modern, liberal Britain” did not develop in the homelands of our mass-immigrant Muslim communities, and could not have done so since Islam is inimical to our value system and culture. It wasn’t “illiberal” to oppose assault from the Third Reich, and neither is it illiberal to scorn the primitive values exposed by this ICM survey, or to resist the spread of such values since they represent just as severe a threat.

    • E.I.Cronin

      You’re operating on thought policing software. People should be free to publicly disapprove or dislike anything they choose – as long as they do not incite violence. Islamophobia, homophobia, xenophobia etc are fraudulent, totalitarian concepts. Abuse and violence against individuals certainly exists and is never acceptable – but everything in our societies should be debatable and open for rational, honest enquiry. Christians and Jews have every right to express their religious disapproval of homos.&.xuality – the difference is only a small percentage would vote to re-criminalise consenting acts between adults of the same gender. 52% of Muslims would. That’s a crucial difference. Plus 20+% favour the implementation of Sharia – to my mind that means when Muslim politicians and electorates have the numbers they will change the UK. In fact, UK law has already been bypassed with the existence of Sharia ‘courts’.

      You’re argument is basically that any counter-cultural movement or anti-establishment ideology is relevant and beneficial to British society – which is absurd. If you think the attitudes displayed in the ICM survey are going to contribute to the ‘tolerant, pluralistic, vibrant multicultural society’ the progressives bang on about then you have an extremely tenuous grip on reality. Or you’re lying to yourself.

      • AK

        We don’t legislate and create laws in Britain based on referendums, so you’re wrong. 52% of Muslims would not vote to “re-criminalise consenting acts between adults of the same gender.”

        Not to mention, the survey does not show Muslims demanding change to the law. They were asked a question and they answered as per their private thoughts and beliefs – nothing more.

        “Christians and Jews have every right to express their religious disapproval of homos.&.xuality – the difference is only a small percentage would vote to re-criminalise consenting acts between adults of the same gender.”

        You have no evidence or data to support your conclusion. Until you’ve conducted a survey of the Christian or Jewish population, you are in no position to determine whether or not they would support a re-criminalisation of homosexuality.

        “counter-cultural movement or anti-establishment ideology is relevant and beneficial to British society – which is absurd”

        It is the liberal counter-cultural movement that resulted in the legalisation of homosexuality in the first place.

        I have confidence in the democratic system and I believe every citizen should exercise his democratic right to vote. I also don’t believe in thought policing. It is you who threatens Britain’s liberal way of life.

        • E.I.Cronin

          1) I did not mention referenda at all.

          2) ”They were asked a question and they answered as per their private thoughts and beliefs – nothing more”. That’s dishonest sophistry. 52% declared they believed homosexuality should be ILLEGAL in the UK. That means exactly what it says. 29% (?) want Sharia implemented in the UK. That means exactly what it says.

          If the issue came to a vote – what leads you to state they would hesitate to vote accordingly? I suggest it’s your progressive spin. Also I notice you haven’t answered my point about a parallel legal system already operating in the UK – this has irrevocably changed Britain. The Jihadist subculture has permanently changed Britain and all Western nations. So these are definitely NOT ”private thoughts” as you seem to believe – they are religious principles being enacted in your country as we speak.

          3) Of course I have no direct proof. But I come from a practicing Christian family, I read the media constantly and tune in to what Church leaders are saying. I listen to conservative media in particular and while few devout Christians approve of homosexuality even fewer express the belief it should be illegal. Basic human rights and the ideals of liberty and individualism were formulated in Christian nations. Forgiveness and compassion are fundamental principles of Christ’s teachings which are absent in Islam. But yes, we will have to wait for a survey.

          4) ”It is you who threatens Britain’s liberal way of life”. You haven’t answered my point that not all anti-establishment, minority or counter-cultural ideologies are rational, beneficial or moral. Anyone adolescent can ”rage against the system”. A friend pointed out the intelligent question that isn’t being asked is exactly *what* are we replacing our traditions with.

      • AK

        What wasn’t reporting on the documentary raises suspicion. Here are a few examples:

        1. According to the data, the participants were asked if they understand why Jihadi John was radicalised, the control group (non-Muslims) response was higher than Muslims, 27% to 13%. They didn’t mention this as it obviously did not suit Trevor Phillips’ agenda.

        2. They were also asked if they understand why schoolgirls were attracted to become “jihadi brides”. The control group (non Muslim) response was marginally higher than Muslims, 26% to 25%.

        3. The data also showed that 34% of Muslims and 30% of the control group (non Muslim) would not report to police someone they thought was getting involved in terrorism. The results was very similar, yet the Muslims were highlighted as having a unique problem.

        You can verify the results yourself by downloading the data here http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

        • E.I.Cronin

          Questions 1 & 2 don’t make sense. Of course we will never know without talking to him, but everyone ‘understands’ the general reasons why Jihadi John may have been ‘radicalised’ or why Muslim schoolgirls are attracted to become Jihadi brides.

          1) Jihad is a specific religious doctrine in Islamic scripture that is praised and fervently idealised.
          2) Hatred of Non-Muslims and anti-Western sentiment
          3) Adolescent fantasy and rebellion.
          4) Identity politics

          Question 3 is disturbing. I would like to know the reasons WHY the Muslim group would not report Jihadis (shame, fear, tacit approval) while the Non-Muslim group would likely answer for fear of retribution; fear of being called a racist or ‘Islamophobe’.

          These 3 questions don’t undermine the other frightening results of the survey.

  • AK

    Christians, Jews, atheists or anyone else is allowed to hold what might be considered Islamophobic, homophobic or anti-semitic views. If you disagree with this, then you are advocating a society where people are not allowed to THINK freely.

    It’s only worthy of condemnation in this country IF people say something derogatory or exhibit negative behavior. And even IF it were technically Islamophobic or homophobic to merely hold such views, it would be far worse to prevent or condemn people for privately thinking or believing anything as this would be tantamount to thought policing!

    The responses of this survey did not fall foul of either speaking or acting in a homophobic manner. Why? Because the survey ELICITED private thoughts of individuals. The survey intended on asking people what they privately BELIEVED. These Muslims did not come out and SAY or ACT against homosexuals.

    You can disagree with such views but to condemn Muslims for holding such views is far worse; you are stifling freedom of thought and you might even be advocating thought-policing. Likewise, if you privately THOUGHT Muslims are evil, I would not consider it Islamophobic until you said something of the sort or acted on it.

    • trobrianders

      That notion leaves policy-makers nowhere. Are you advocating the abandonment of policy-making?

    • justejudexultionis

      Islam should nevertheless be banned from this country in the interests of peace, freedom and democracy.

      SOLI DEO GLORIA

      • Alex

        Funny notion of “peace freedom and democracy” you have going on there.

        For insight, try translating “soli Deo gloria” into Arabic … you may be surprised what you find.

        What animus religious nutters have for those who worship their same god in a slightly different way.

        I had thought Christianity, if not Islam, had got over that some centuries ago.

    • antoncheckout

      “52 per cent of Britain’s three million Muslims think homosexuality should be illegal
      39 per cent think a woman should always obey her husband;
      18 per cent sympathise with people who take part in violence against those who mock the Prophet;
      4 per cent — that equates to about 100,000 Muslims — have ‘sympathy for people who take part in suicide bombing to fight injustice’. ”

      52% – just to remind you – is a majority, not a minority.

      None of these opinions has any place in ‘Catholic or Jewish beliefs’. Violence, coercion and the demand for state intervention to enforce moral codes are completely at odds with any Christian belief. Nor could any reasonable, informed and thinking person be confused for a moment on the issue.

      So one must reluctantly conclude that you are either grossly misinformed, or employing agressive taquiyya.

      • The Sage

        The first two points I can probably agree with.

        • red2black

          Parallel surveys with other religions and non-religious people would have been interesting.

  • foxoles

    Ot (or is it?)

    Tommy Robinson charges dismissed – even the judge questioned the police’s motives

    https://mobile.twitter.com/trobinsonnewera

    • steelraptor from Saturn

      God I hope so. The bravest man in the UK and his trials and tribulations are all the proof you need that the UK is a fascist state.

      • trobrianders

        Even though he’s not the most articulate guy around he’s retained the normal human capacity for nuance in thought that is routinely ironed out by the Marxist loonyversities whose graduates make up the chattering classes.

        • Sean L

          The guy’s a hero: putting into deeds what pathetic people on here like you and me can only prattle about anonymously – unless you *are* him… and this is just a bit of light relief for you.

          • trobrianders

            Don’t misunderstand me. He has made huge sacrifices. Sacrifices I couldn’t have made. No need to insult me for it. I would have thought evidence from someone like me who has real life experience of Muslim households who is prepared to back what Tommy is saying is useful to the overall cause.

          • Sean L

            No insult mate, your contributions on here are top drawer, just taking the mick – out of myself as much as anyone. By the way, your people are welcome in this country as far as I’m concerned. Just not too many of you. It’s all about the numbers.

          • trobrianders

            No worries. Your contributions are good too.

        • William Brown

          I used to believe the negative propaganda regarding TR, (which wasn’t helped by his EDL followers, some of who, I won’t pretend, were on the wrong side of being genuinely racist), until I took the time to listen to him during his TV appearances – he appeared completely rational, as did his arguments – today, even more so.

          • DearyMe

            Me too re propaganda. His speech at the Oxford Union changed my opinion about him.

          • David Hawk

            Mine too.

        • Alex

          Nuance in thought, is that the type of thought whereby one says Muslims are all cackling cartoon villains?

          • trobrianders

            Tommy has never just described them that way. You have to make things up because you can’t address the truth. Your ideology forbids it.

          • Alex

            I find him insightful, intelligent and principled. The target of my comment was some of you right-wing rabble-rousers BTL. Your ideology forbids any other nuance. Tommy Robinson however works with secularist Muslims.

          • trobrianders

            That’s true. Tommy does work with Muslims but we’re still in a calm before the storm. A storm I don’t want to see brought on. Mine is a defensive posture. Leftists and Muslims are the ones pushing and pushing, driving centrists to the right. Look back in history. It has always been the Left provoking a right wing backlash, never the other way around.

          • trobrianders

            That’s true. Tommy does work with Muslims but we’re still in a calm before the storm. A storm I don’t want to see brought on. Mine is a defensive posture. Leftists and Muslims are the ones pushing and pushing, driving centrists to the right. Look back in history. It has always been the Left provoking a right wing backlash, never the other way round.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Hooray! Nothing to do with the fact that Tommy now has a legal fighting fund that bought him a decent lawyer? The authorities must have been sh*tting themselves.

    • Shazza

      Wonderful news for such a brave man.

      Please read his book ‘Enemy of the State’ available on Amazon – not available in any of our book shops/supermarkets. I wonder why – too cowardly to stock it, don’t want to publicise it, don’t want the apathetic public to learn the truth………..

  • SunnyD

    Let’s not forget the blinding obvious point: this programme only (claimed) to tell us what British Muslims TOLD THEM they think. Goodness only knows what they held back!

    • trobrianders

      As I mentioned below. I’ve spent thousands of hours in over a hundred Muslim households conversing in native tongue and the reality is far far worse than even these damning statistics suggest. I realise this is only anecdotal evidence but if you have any doubts I urge you to make your own enquiries. Your security will depend on it.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Yes, they’re Muslim, right. Same old.

        The “security” blanket of hate…

        • trobrianders

          What do you know about Muslims? Absolutely nothing and not by accident either. You couldn’t defend them if you actually knew them. Tell us what you actually know about Muslims through personal experience or shut your mouth.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Tell us”

            I don’t, by policy, give information to multiple personalities like you, especially hate-filled censorious fanatics who are like Islamists clearly quite extreme – and you assumed I am, like you, utterly ignorant of the people involved…

            Those hundreds of hours posting hate, no doubt.

          • trobrianders

            Only extremists revert to demonising people with opposing arguments rather than addressing the arguments. That’s always you, not me.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I don’t make your posts.

          • trobrianders

            Are you a 5 year old?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, child-hater, I am not.

          • TartanTerrier

            Hate whine hate jew hate spew etc

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Hate whine hate jew hate spew etc”

            Yes, you do, constantly, Jewhater. You and your bots like “TheJewsAreLiars” and “Planet Vague”…

          • TartanTerrier

            Hate spew whine whine jew hate Zionist whine victim phhhrrrt etc etc

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, you make it utterly plain what your views are, 100% yours and 100% spam hate.

          • TartanTerrier

            Spam hate whine spam hate spew etc etc

          • TartanTerrier

            That’s you, that is.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, I’m a Jew. Right, same old.

          • TartanTerrier

            So you say but who knows exactly WHAT you are!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes yes, you deny I’m a Jew because of your hate. Same old.

          • TartanTerrier

            I didn’t deny you as anything. But you stating it doesn’t mean to say that it is true “Leon”

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you deny your denial, as you then deny I’m a Jew again in your hate, Scottish Company (or imposter thereof). You do have their permission, right…

          • TartanTerrier

            Denying jewhate whine moan hate hate phhhhrrrt etc etc

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Denying jewhate whine moan hate hate phhhhrrrt etc etc”

            Yes, your bigoted hate goes on, and on, and…

          • TartanTerrier

            How does an anonymous blogger seriously claim anything about themselves and how is it verifiable. You definitely don’t have English as a mother tongue and you have some mental problems. Apart from that you could be any religion….even a Muslim!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “U FOREIGN, JEW”
            “U MENTALLY ILL, JEW”

            “U MUSLIM, JEW”

            Same old torrent of abusive Jewhate from you, check.

          • TartanTerrier

            Jew hate whine moan I’m not ill moan I’m a jew HONEST hate hate phrrt !!! etc etc

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, you’re not a Jew.

            Why you think you need to spew your Jewhate constantly, liar…

          • TartanTerrier

            Well ‘ve spent 18 years lining in a Muslim country- and you couldn’t be farther from the truth nut just a word or two for Leon…..jewhate vile spew hate hare phhhhrrrrttttt etc etc

          • trobrianders

            I’ve travelled extensively in the Muslim world. What’s your point?

          • TartanTerrier

            Muslims, generally, are just as law-abiding as non-Muslims. Just look at the annual homicide rates- most Muslim states have muder rates less than USA.

          • trobrianders

            Being careful and being law-abiding aren’t quite the same.

          • TartanTerrier

            I understand that but what has that got to do with Muslims being per se traitors or fifth columnists.

          • trobrianders

            All Muslims share in fear of Allah with violent jihadists. It’s the reason you don’t hear unequivocal condemnations of violent extremism from the “law-abiding” ones you speak of. Given a straight choice, were social order to breakdown, we know whose side Muslims would be on. They can’t go against extremists any more than they can go against Allah. Please don’t take my word for it. Make your own enquiries.

          • TartanTerrier

            All 1.5 billion Muslims from all different economic classes and levels of education spread all over the World think in one homogenous way. Thats the essence of bigotry to write that they do. Social order is in no danger of breaking down and in that event I have no fecking idea whose side anyone would be on let alone 1.5 billion Muslims etc etc. Christians/west have their own brand of extremists – or is extremism purely a Muslim character trait.

          • trobrianders

            Plenty of straw men there. I don’t know where to begin. Clearly I’m speaking of British Muslims (and they come predominately from Pakistan, India and East Africa) and not all 1.5 bn of them. You want it both ways. You want neither to say they are compatible with life in the west nor incompatible. What you want is to have no one talking about them at all. That allows you to toe the line about saying they’re law-abiding, peaceful etc without ever having to discover an alarming thing about them, without your notions ever being tested.

          • Mara Naile-Akim

            ‘You want neither to say they are compatible with life in the west nor incompatible.’

            surely the reality is far too complex to just say it’s one or the other. Relations between the west and islam are long-standing and very complex, and there are many reasons behind the present situation.

          • trobrianders

            In other words shut your eyes and ears and stop talking about it.

    • Nick

      Excellent point.

      • SunnyD

        thanks Nick(olai – just kidding!)

        • Nick

          I’m thinking of naming our house The Kremlin.;-)

    • Sargon the bone crusher

      Of course. If 38 % agree, you know it is really 67 % plus.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Magically, in your PC. Right.

        • Sargon the bone crusher

          TAKE THE PILLS LEON!!!!! NURSIE IS HERE WITH THE NEEDLE!!!!!!!!
          ACCEPT HELP NOW!!!!!!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            More fantasies about poisoning me in your screaming frenzy, I see.
            Your political correctness is working overtime.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            you are sick and need help leon1111111

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I’m not the sick little creep who posts in caps repeatedly about needles and bums, that’s you.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            YOU ARE ILL LEON
            BUM
            NEEDLE
            NOW!!!!!

  • Nick

    I had so much to say about the programme but having read this article,there is no need for me to say anything as the article says it all and all that I wanted to say.

    Most excellent article Mr.Delingpole.

  • JJD

    I’ll have to have a look at the documentary. Thanks, James.

  • Chingford Man

    Why should we believe even these stats? The experience of past polling in Northern Ireland shows that people often pretended to pollsters that they held more moderate opinions than was the case. I’d be interested to know whether the raw data for this programme was adjusted to take account of the fact that not everyone who holds controversial opinions will disclose them to a stranger.

    • Bonzo

      Don’t know if you listened to “The Deobandis” on Radio 4, it was broadcast this month and is still on the iplayer. The Deobandis are the largest group of muslims in this country. The presenter, BBC correspondent Owen Bennett Jones, asked various questions of senior UK Deobandi leaders. They lied consistently even when Jones presented them with undeniable evidence. The Deobandis run more than 40% of British mosques and have a near monopoly on Islamic seminaries.

      • Conway

        Of course they lied; they are bound to practise taquiyya and kitman. It’s also their culture.

      • Zhang Wei

        The Deobandis grip on UK mosques is finally being challenged from within the British Muslim community especially in Glasgow.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        See, there’s an actual problem – foreign-funded Islamic preachers coming in…

        • Bonzo

          Most of those interviewed were British citizens.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            One, prove it.
            Two, what does that have to do with what I said?

      • justejudexultionis

        Lying is actually integral to Islamic theology – look up ‘taqqiya’ and ‘kitman’.

        • TartanTerrier

          Nonsense. Utter bollocks.

    • Alex

      Quite, why should we believe these statistics? Read the post(s) above about the control group.

  • Yorkieeye

    I live in the heart of the Muslim stronghold of West Yorkshire and have mixed with a lot of Muslim people socially and politically. It’s getting worse for liberals as they come under increasing pressure to conform to third world practises. I’ve worked with young people who have been just like everyone else until Grandma decides they are too western ; then they’re off on Hadj and never come out after work any more. As for a couple of guys we all knew were gay being forced into arranged marriages! There is now a purity race on; who is most religious? Who behaves in the most Muslim way? Etc etc. I worked with a guy who was high up in the accounts department in my company who went to prayers every Friday, where he was routinely mocked for wearing a suit. He left the company after a couple of years of it. But before he went he cajoled a young Muslim colleague into accompanying him to Friday prayers when he had previously joined in with the Friday pizza run and played Half Life at lunch time instead of praying. Unless this pressure can be reversed every Muslim will at least pay lip service to the wilder strictures of the ROP. We have pandered for so long they think they are untouchable and the refuseniks have no one to turn to. For decades the contraception advisors at Dewsbury maternity hospital have been banned from advising Muslim women ‘because their GPs don’t like it’. I don’t know about Muslim men having a paternal and infantilising attitude to women, the left leaning establishment are no better.

    • Damaris Tighe

      “For decades the contraception advisors at Dewsbury maternity hospital have been banned from advising Muslim women ‘because their GPs don’t like it'” That’s absolutely shocking – not only from the aspect of a Muslim woman’s right to receive the same NHS service as everybody else, but also reminds me of the caution I feel when I have to see a Muslim doctor who looks devout. Why must I and other non-Muslim women have to consult with someone who may well view us in a denigrating way?

      • Leon Wolfeson

        I’d want proof of it, myself, sounds like a lot of other urban myths.

        If it can be proven, yes, but..

    • logdon

      Very well put.

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      It’s already too late.

    • Penny

      If memory serves it was the worry of an “I’m more pious than thou” attitude sweeping her school that gave the Muslim headmistress in the Shabina Begum case the will to stand her ground

      I read about this case some years back but what I think troubled the Head was the way in which an immature piety might lead girls to either abandon or take less seriously their education and the opportunities it afforded them. It struck me then – as it does now when I see young women from the nearby Muslim community playing at being pious – that Islamic piety is a bandwagon that they may not be able to jump off, even if the novelty wears thin and they want to return to normality.

      When I say “playing at being pious”, it seems to me that these girls, with their high heels clicking below their jilbab and their excessively made-up eyes peering from their niqab, are not remotely “modest ” or pious. They’re being exotic… rebellious…daring.. (take your pick!).which is pretty normal for young people. But having donned this garb in the first place, and contributed to the rapid spread of the “I’m more pious than thou” schema within their community, how easy will it be for them to back track?

      • Yorkieeye

        Completely agree with you Penny. We’ve got lots of burkas around here but it’s almost a political/fashion statement. It’s a bit like being a punk or a goth, it’s tribe identity and has little to do with belief.

        • Kathy Prendergast

          I don’t know about “fashion statement”, but it’s definitely a political one, which is all the more reason for it not to be tolerated. Islam is not a religion; it’s a supremacist political ideology akin to Nazism. And you’re right that there’s nothing “modest” about it at all. The hijab and niqab have never been about modesty; they’re about erasure of individual identity.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, totalitarian control of what people wear must happen, as you say Islam is like your views….

          • Kathy Prendergast

            Where did I mention totalitarian control? All I meant is that sensible people should view niqab wearing in the same way they would view the sporting of large swastikas.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Legally controlling what people wear is just that.

            And given the far right, well, I’m not sure why you want many of them to view niqab wearing as a good thing…

          • red2black

            Islam: A religion, founded by Muhammad, whose members worship the one God of Jews and Christians (God is called Allah in Arabic) and follow the teachings of the Koran. Islam means ‘submission to the will of God’.

          • DBF

            Islam: a cancer.

          • red2black

            All totalitarian and authoritarian religious and political ideologies are.

          • Alex

            Like the one that wants to ban Muslims from practising their religion? Or is that one special?

          • red2black

            Which one do you mean?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          It’s a political statement.

          (And hence has no protection in law)

    • Leon Wolfeson

      I’m sure you’re putting pressure on liberals to join your hate, yes.

      Arranged Marriages? Common in a lot of cultures, including the religious part of my Jewish one, so…

      • Yorkieeye

        Arranged marriages for gay men? That’s not going to be a lot of fun for either party.
        Hate? Bit of a leap there from wanting liberals to be free to live their lives as they wish to hating everybody.

        • Mara Naile-Akim

          if you’re gay and jewish you could easily be forced into an arranged marriage, yes

          • Yorkieeye

            It doesn’t make it okay because Jews do it too.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah, the freedom from tax…

    • justejudexultionis

      Well said. Corbyn is an Islamist tool and a misogynist.

      • kitten

        Why do you think Corbyn is a misogynist?

    • Alex

      Letting people do what they want isn’t pandering…

      If their beliefs cause them to break the law then punish them ex post facto. Otherwise tolerate.

  • Dr. Heath

    In a review of Mark Steyn’s “Facing the Islamist Menace”, Christopher Hitchens [pbuh] said this of our liberals by way of explaining their tendency to both ignore and excuse the barbaric acts and barbaric points of view of people who imagine belief in, and, consequently, submission to their ridiculous invisible friend are the most important things in the entire world…

    [They] cannot shake their subliminal identification of the Muslim religion with the wretched of the earth: the black- and brown-skinned denizens of what we once called the “Third World”. You can see this identification in the way that the Palestinians (about 20 percent of whom were Christian until their numbers began to decline) have become an “Islamic” cause and in the amazing ignorance that most leftists display about India, a multi-ethnic secular democracy under attack from al-Qaida and its surrogates long before the United States was. And you can see it, too, in the stupid neologism “Islamophobia,” which aims to promote criticism of Islam to the gallery of special offenses associated with racism.

    There is also, of course, an explanation which has it that if Western people and governments are overly harsh [???] in their reactions to barbarism, they risk making ‘moderate’ Muslims more inclined to side with the overtly pyscho branches of their religion.

    • trobrianders

      The heart of any ideology is denial. Muslims/Islam present the Left with a near perfect object of their denial.

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Keep projecting!

        • trobrianders

          Nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh.

    • Alex

      In Palestine lefties tend to support the Sharon/Arafat rapprochement, the two-state solution and the secularists Fatah.

  • Freddythreepwood

    ‘As Ray Honeyford was so maligned for telling us just 32 years ago.’

    And one John Enoch Powell before that.

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      Too true and very, very sad. Maybe one day, we can dig up Heath and do to him, what they did to Cromwell.

      • Yorkieeye

        Followed by Blair and Straw!

      • Conway

        Unfortunately, he was cremated. He thought ahead.

        • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

          A pity, that head would’ve looked just right on a twenty foot pole, swinging above Westminster Hall or even better if it still exists the West Midlands Area Conservative Political Centre in Birmingham.

          • Alex

            All sounds very ISIS to me. What was it the survey said about supporting violence and terrorism?

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Yes, of course you belong to that long-ago era.

      • justejudexultionis

        Cromwell would have dealt with the Muhammedan hordes in a very effective and terminal manner.

        SOLI DEO GLORIA

    • LaurenceBoyce

      Powell never even mentioned Islam. So much for his much-heralded powers of prophesy.

      • Freddythreepwood

        Powell was a war hero, who rose through the ranks from private to Brigadier. He was also the most impressive politician of my lifetime, and there isn’t a politician alive today who is fit to speak his name. As for his powers of prophesy, take a walk around Bradford, and tell me he wasn’t right.

        • DBF

          How is someone who never once saw combat a war hero?

          • Nicholas Street

            It wasn’t for the want of trying that he didn’t see combat, he was just too valuable in other roles.

          • DBF

            That still doesn’t make him a war hero.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          And he threw it away to work for foreign interests.

          • Nicholas Street

            In what way?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            …History is quite clear

          • DBF

            If it is so clear why are you incapable of discussing it?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Discussion starts with reading history books, it doesn’t end there.

          • DBF

            You made a claim that he threw it away to work for foreign interests and, when challenged, made the simplistic claim that history is quite clear. If that is the case, why are you incapable of demonstrating that? You made the claim so the burden of proof rests with you. Are you capable of doing so?

          • Nicholas Street

            Bollocks.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, the fifth column’s witty retort…

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            not bollocks leon, the nurse needs to put the needle in your bum leon!!!!!

          • Nicholas Street

            I’ve seen your other posts, you’re not worthy of a proper response.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            I have views other than yours so you’ll whine at me, ah, right.
            No debate or thought needed for you, I hear.

          • Maureen Fisher

            Best not to engage with that particular troll who just spams threads with incoherent accusations.

  • Graeme S

    If non eu immigration is not halted and indeed reversed, we will loose this country of ours, there is a wickedness, an inexorable deluge happening and I just cannot see any politician stopping it

    • Sargon the bone crusher

      So do you want REPATRIATION – BE HONEST!!!!!!!!!!!

      • Mongo

        we want this nightmare to be halted before mass repatriation becomes necessary. Except for the terrorist sympathisers – they should be kicked out now

        • Sargon the bone crusher

          You avoided the question . HOW can it new avoided? HOW?HOW?HOW?

          • Fulgentian

            How would it even work?

        • Zhang Wei

          What about Harvey Price can he stay?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Your personalities want to stop people fleeing those like you now, so you can ensure they’re trapped, right, when the mass action starts. As you want to kick out millions of White British people for not being right wing… same old.

          • DBF

            Dafuq are you trying to say?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            English.

      • Graeme S

        Of course, all those who have been here for a number of years, cannot speak English , never had a job and above all failed miserably to add any value to society

    • Leon Wolfeson

      If those who happen to come from say Australia are not purged…the country you want to take away from it’s people…as you spew your wicked deluge…

    • Zhang Wei

      See if you had the opportunity would you piledriver a Muslim granny through a concrete slab?

      • Graeme S

        Yep

        • Zhang Wei

          Would you tie her by the ankles to a big crane and swing her around really really fast and slam her against a brick wall?

    • DBF

      Will lose? I hate to break it to you, but that ship has long since sailed.

    • justejudexultionis

      The problem is the low indigenous birthrate – indigenous Brits are not having children – coupled with a deliberately anti-Christian, anti-white multiculturalist policy of uncontrolled mass immigration and Islamo-appeasement.

  • lolwut?

    Donald Trump – The Vicious Snake

    https://www.youtube.com/v/yeJ-iv3MOTo

    .

    • DBF

      What does that buffon have to do with this?

      • minaka2

        Apparently even a buffoon can figure out that it’s suicidally stupid to add more hostile unassimilating Muslim colonizers to the ones already breeding and justifying terror among us. But Britain’s oh so proper well spoken traitorous gentlemen in government cannot.

  • DBF

    Islam is a cancer and Britain, indeed the world, badly needs a dose of chemotherapy.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      So, after the billions you’d slaughter, and things were worse..who next?

      • DBF

        Nice straw man. At no point did I advocate the slaughter of anyone. I said that the religion is a cancer and that we need chemotherapy for that. The religion needs to be eradicated but I never advocated that people be eradicated. But I suspect you knew that and simply didn’t have a counter argument so you resorted to your straw man argument. But since those are logical fallacies, you failed.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Those are not straw men, as you ignore the fact that cancer cells are destroyed in treatment. This is advocating genocide, period.

          You “suspect” I believe your attempt at revisionism? Well, let’s see what you’ve switched to advocating now anyway…oh, a totalitarian state far harsher than say the USSR, which never did manage to eliminate the beliefs of it’s religious minorities.

          You’re *suspicious*, Mr. “U FAILED”

          • DBF

            Yes, it is a straw man as you argued against a claim that I did not make. And yes, cancer cells are destroyed by chemotherapy but it should be fairly obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together (ie. not you) that, since I said Islam was the cancer and did not say that about its adherents, that it is the religion/belief system that I think needs to be destroyed and not the people.

            As for your nonsensical claim that I am advocating a totalitarian state worse than the USSR – once again, I said no such thing so you are, yet again, resorting to a straw man argument. Are you capable of constructing and defending an argument that isn’t based on straw men?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Islam is a religion practiced by people – your attempts to hide your calls for murdering those people are sad.

            As you say facts about the USSR are nonsense… as you talk about the very real targets you have, the Humans you try and dress up as “straw men”, in your desire to, apparently, be nastier than any prior nasty fanatic…

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            NO it is not.
            It is YOU who practices it

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah, accuse the Jew of…

            Same old, little sick creep as you are.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            Yoo is antee-semyte, bruv!!!!!

          • minaka2

            Hopefully your Jewish “allowed to spout idiocy without criticism” card is wearing thin from over use.

          • If you oppose his insane assertions, even if you have no idea that he is Jewish (or claims to be) he suddenly pops up and accuses you of being an anti-Semite and or a member of Stormfront. I think the diseased logic is that since he is Jewish, any opposition denotes anti-Semitism. Once he starts this, he follows you about the Internet accusing you of anti-Semitism. He does this on multiple forums in fact – not just this one. Google ‘Leon Wolfeson’ and you will find many examples of this insane and dishonest behaviour. Up above here in this thread, when I was commenting on the Channel Four programmes discovery that Sharia Courts are handing down misogynistic and backward judgements he popped up and said, “Your pretend-hate of Sharia, when your target is clearly Beis Din…”

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your problem with my being Jewish and alive rolls on.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            As a Jewess, I think you’re either mentally ill or, you are a troll. I have never seen a Jew declaring to be Jewish so repetitively, after each ridicule.
            People who usually play the Jew card this repeatedly ad nauseam, aren’t Jews, but wish to be perceived as such.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So as someone making a wild claim… you spew PC bigotry at me, and scream I’m not a Jew.

            Thanks for the anti-Semitism.

          • He THRIVES on confrontational attention.

          • DBF

            You really are a special kind of stupid aren’t you? Calling for the eradication of a belief system is not the same as calling for the eradication of people. Reagan and Thatcher called for an end to Communism without ever advocating the extermination of Communists. Are you really such a simpleton that you cannot understand the difference between advocating the eradication of an idea/belief system and the eradication of people? If you cannot grasp the difference then you are a real credit to whichever school system you came out of because it is clear that they failed spectacularly with you.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “UR SPECIAL STOOPID”

            Regan and Thatcher did not use your wording, for a reason, as I understand your genocidal views. And your attempts to hide that, now, badly and with excuses (rather than just say backing down)

            As you hate the British schools, check, for teaching me English… they “failed” for you as I don’t think murder’s great… I hear.

          • DBF

            Yep, you are definitely a credit to whichever school you came out of because not only are you incapable of constructing a rational argument, but now it seems that you are incapable of constructing a coherent sentence.

            Maybe they should have had you riding the short bus to school.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you blame me for your issues, as you hate on…

          • Mongo

            I really hope you don’t develop cancer, Leon. That would break my heart. What would the Spec articles be without you?

            want a cigarette?

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            Laced with arsenic

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your attempts at sarcasm are about as funny as Cameron.

      • Anna Bananahammok

        Not is they slaughter us first (or if they slaughter each other first, which they same to like doing). Now STFU Leon, you turd.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Ah yes, those turds (Jews) who must be silenced.

          And it’s your far right who tend to kill each other here.

    • richard

      All religion is a cancer, all of humanity needs this dose of chemotherapy.

  • Kasperlos

    Britain is lost: the 7th century Arabian Desert death cult has ingrained itself upon these shores with the connivance of our so-called ‘betters’. And to think of the countless thousands who lost their lives in the Great War – the centenary of which we are supposedly observing when not distracted by scandal, migration, EU implosion – and the Second World War. Most don’t want to realise it, but we are in a second Battle of Britain. Time is very short to turn things around.

    • Fulgentian

      Things will not turn around, because those who run Britain are intent on its ruin. Blinded by the cultural Marxism they have absorbed since the 60s, their primary enemies are those they see as the traditionally ‘privileged’ of Britain – the white, borgeois Christian males. They will stop at nothing to fulfil their bizarre Stalinist phantasies, even if it involves calling in the Mujahedeen and being killed in the process.
      Their last thought when being lined up against the wall by the Sharia police will be ‘at least they’re not Tories…’

      • Sargon the bone crusher

        Indeed.
        It is finished.
        I left a long time ago, and would not live there again.
        You lot should put most of the New Labour scumbags in jail. After a trial of course.
        You are gutless and too bloody soft.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Yes, end democracy after fake “trials”… same as any dictatorship.

          So, where do you live? Belarus?

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            THE NEEDLE NEEDS TO GO IN YOUR BUM NOW LEON!!!!!!

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Your odd fantasies…you’re a nasty little screaming creep, no more.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            IN THE BUM NOIW LEON!!!!!

      • Leon Wolfeson

        Ah, the Marxists and Stalinists in your head.

        As you claim your lot are Sharia…

        • Here is a classic example of an insane person trying to engage in a confrontational exchange. Note the lack of logic. Insane subject accuses the other person of the very thing he had just criticised.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            “Here is a classic example of an insane person trying to engage in a
            confrontational exchange. Note the lack of logic. Insane subject accuses
            the other person of the very thing he had just criticised.”

            Yes, thanks for deconstructing your post.

      • DBF

        A lot of self loathers in that group.

      • red2black

        Even so, all the mainstream religions are conservative.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      You’re confused, the far right are not Arabian.

      As you mention your enemies who defeated you in wars before… as you take the side of Britain’s enemies in wanting a coup…

      • Mongo

        who are Britain’s enemies?

        • DBF

          Not sure about that but logic is clearly Leon’s enemy.

          • red2black

            “Logic, n. The art of thinking and reasoning in strict accordance with the limitations and incapacities of human misunderstanding. The basic of logic is the syllogism, consisting of a major and a minor premise and a conclusion – thus:
            Major Premise: Sixty men can do a piece of work sixty times as quickly as one man.
            Minor Premise: One man can dig a post-hole in sixty seconds; therefore –
            Conclusion: Sixty men can dig a post-hole in one second.
            This may be called syllogism arithmetical, in which, by combining logic and mathematics, we obtain a double certainty and are twice blessed.” Ambrose Bierce

          • Leon’s logic is that someone doesn’t agree with him. He identifies as Jewish ergo person disagreeing with him is an anti-Semite.

          • red2black

            It seems Jewish people disagree among themselves; but there again, so does everyone else.

          • Of course. My problem with him is that out of the blue and with no discussion of the subject he started to accuse me of anti-Semitism. We had never discussed any such subject, or any subject related to that issue.

      • Sargon the bone crusher

        Nurse will strap you down an stuff the needle in SOON leon!!!!!

        • Leon Wolfeson

          No, you’re no nurse, you’re just a creepy idiot.

      • PhilTTipp

        Wahabists are fascists. Why will you not see this? Quite bizarre. The ‘far right’ is a figment of your sorrowful and fevered imagination. The real fascist enemy facing the semites are Wahabist muslim arabs.

        • He will not see it because he suffers from severe delusions. You can see this by the illogical conclusions he jumps to whenever he gets the chance.

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Fachism has a definition, and they don’t meet it. Does not mean they’re anything but nasty ****s and a threat, of course.

          As you claim that existing people are imagined by me…as you try and trick me into letting my guard down. There’s more than one enemy of the Jewish people.

  • Conway

    But the depressing thing is that I doubt they will, actually. I think the general British public have known for some time what Phillips’s documentary professed to find surprising: that large numbers of Muslims don’t want to integrate, that their views aren’t remotely enlightened, and that more than a few of them sympathise with terrorism. It’s only the establishment elite that has ever pretended otherwise.” Actually, what is depressing is that the establishment elite has pretended otherwise and stubbornly continues to do so. The average person has been able to see for some time how the religion of submission has been pushing the boundaries to change our way of life rather than fitting in. They were just silenced every time they might have ventured to express their concern.

    • Fulgentian

      And there’s nothing we can do about it. Whomever we vote for will continue the pathetic charade because, whether they admit it or not, they can see the future of Britain is Muslim.

    • Leon Wolfeson

      No, the average person is not a Stormfront reader, for instance.

      Or believes the conspiracy theory you espoused, you’re being quite vocal here.

      • DBF

        Where is a facepalm smilie when I need one?

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Stormfront has several you can copy/paste.

          • SunnyD

            you know an awful lot about Stormfront for a Stockholm-syndrome Zionist

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Ah yes, those “Stockholm-syndrome Zionist”, i.e. Jews.

            And I know my enemy.

          • He isn’t in Stormfront you loon. Nobody here is. YOU are the one who talks about Stormfront…… Don’t you realise yet? You are insane and having delusions. Seek help and keep away from us with your vile accusations.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you have no idea what Stormfront is, as you say, nobody, that you’re into Stormfront. You’re very confused.

            As you spew that I have your issues, as you want other views, those “vile accusations” to eb kept away, as you desperately wish thugs to beat me up… to “help” my existence to end, yada yada.

  • MikeF

    ”‘This attitude is not acceptable in state schools in Britain,’ observed Ms Hussain.” It is not – or ought not to be – acceptable anywhere in 21st century Britain.

  • Sargon the bone crusher

    THERE IS NOTHING ‘SHOCKING’ ABOUT THIS STUDY.
    Trev has bunked off and avoided the nasty reality when he suggests a touch of integrated schooling will ‘solve the problem’.
    Joke.These folk will NOT be put off.
    It is an incompatible civilisation.
    Hint No 1.
    The key word is ‘incompatible’.
    Did you get that:
    INCOMPATIBLE!!!!!!!!

    • Leon Wolfeson

      It’s not a study.

      You won’t be put off, and I hear your view you are incompatible, yes,

      • Sargon the bone crusher

        LET NURSIE INJECT YOU NOW,LEON!!!
        YOU NEED IT NOW LEON!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        • Leon Wolfeson

          Spamming me with crap about your poisoning fantasies? Oh dear.

          edit: You’re a little creep, it’s clear, as you *prove* yourself utterly incompatible…

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            NEEDLE!!
            YOUR BUM!!!
            FORM A UNION NOW LEON!!!!!

          • Anti psychotics are his friend …….

      • Mongo

        the most boring troll returns to spread his tediousness. Still haven’t learnt basic grammer, Leon? (AKA Noel Noseflow)

        • Leon Wolfeson

          No, Mr. Noel Noseflow, your name is “Mongo”. But thanks for the confession.

          • Mongo

            it’s your name backwards!! Are you still an anti-semite?

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Yes, I’m aware of the spelling you use for your other personalities name. I still don’t care.

            “Are you still an anti-semite?”

            No, I do not share your Anti-Semetic views. Never have – I’m Jewish for one, as you whine on and try and make this thread all about your hate of me…

          • Mongo

            you’re Jewish and yet you apologise for the very people who want to see you and your people and your country wiped from the face of the earth?

            there’s a cure for Stockholm syndrome you know…

          • Leon Wolfeson

            No, I don’t apologize for you. Or Islamists.

            And then take it, geez. Your issues are yours!

          • A Alan

            Internet connection working again Gollum !!

            46,000 posts and only 6,500 upvotes so that is 0.14 of an upvote for your inane and incomprehensible comments. Do you actually have a job ?

          • Yesss Precccssiosssss. Gollum guards the compuuuuter from the goblinnnnns precsioussssss.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Mr. Gollum, as you measure epeen frantically, and scream that I make your posts…

            I work. And not for Mr. Putin either.

          • A Alan

            Do translate Gollum.

            Are you actually Doug the Head ?

            Pretends he’s Jewish. Wishes he was Jewish. Even tells his family they’re Jewish, but he’s about as Jewish as he is a f**k**g monkey

          • Leon Wolfeson

            Mr. Gollum/Doug the Head, I don’t believe you’re Jewish either.

            You’re also not me.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            I am Jewish and you do not speak for me Leon!! I reckon you are a troll.

          • Well said good lady. Shallom. That loon constantly accuses me of anti-Semitism and issuing death threats to him. Niether are true. Apparently, because he identifies as Jewish, anyone who opposes the illogical nonsense he expounds or disagrees with what he believes in is an anti-Semite because they do so. When I mentioned the shocking revelation in this documentary which shows extremely bad approaches to the rights of women who attend Sharia tribunals and have their children removed by religious figures who were described by the Yemeni woman researcher who had attended sharia courts in Britian as more backward and fundamentalist than those in Sharia courts in Yemen, Mad Leon announced that Sharia Courts were not my target but that the Beth din was!! :((

            He is a VILE individual and a monstrous liar.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            I agree.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            So you’re one of the 2% not Zionist, as you “reckon” I’m like you…

          • Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha – the loon follows others too…… ha ha ha ha h a…

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You do? Thanks for that.

    • minaka2

      Most of the terrorists and those attempting terrorism in the West have grown up here and received their schooling here. They’re taught that the native western culture is evil and “owes” backward cultures like Islam. So how is that going to counteract a SUPREMACIST belief system that imagines with all its backwardness and lack of achievement it’s nevertheless destined to rule the world? The two are a perfect fit, aren’t they? Self hating libs teaching supremacist Muslims that their barbarism is superior to western civilization.

    • John Motson

      Maybe you are just INCOMPATIBLE and don’t give people a chance!!!

  • Zhang Wei

    Repatriate all the darkies NOW!

    • Fulgentian

      Sarcasm?

      • Zhang Wei

        Realism!

      • Leon Wolfeson

        More a prime example of the sort of fellow traveler who many on the right want to brush under the carpet.

        • trobrianders

          Nazis were also famous for their lack of humour. It will be your undoing.

          • Leon Wolfeson

            You will? Ha.

    • Sargon the bone crusher

      Yf ooo reepatreeayts dem darkies, does you see da light?????

    • Bonkim

      How about the other shades?

  • Leon Wolfeson

    “We” don’t. But taking a TV program looking for headlines…

    • SunnyD

      You’d obviously rather ignore the pressing issues of our time – perhaps you miss the good old days when jets were falling out of the sky and tellytubbies ruled the morning television screens?

      • Leon Wolfeson

        No, I don’t ignore the Tories. Or their economics.

        And no, I don’t like your favored days, but thanks.

  • Zhang Wei

    The British state has every right to set the guidelines in terms of what is disseminated in UK Mosques.

    • guest

      They may have, but will never use such right as they are scared.

  • Mongo

    Islam = The Borg

    It’s only aim and purpose is to forcibly assimilate (convert) unbelievers into the collective. Negotiation, compromise and co-existence is impossible

    • DBF

      What of Seven of Nine?

      • Sargon the bone crusher

        nice bum.

        • DBF

          She has other assets that are nicer.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            Yoo is not a bummer???

          • DBF

            Not when there is a rack like that on the front side.

          • Sargon the bone crusher

            You is a nippsieman????

      • Mongo

        she was an apostate

      • trobrianders

        Reason incarnate (and great bod).

      • Mr.D.Advocate

        Seven of Nine would have been buried up to her neck in sand then stoned for showing a bit too much skin.

  • peterspc

    what percentage of this group has a job ?

  • peterspc

    what percentage of this group claim benefits ?

    • Sargon the bone crusher

      dey is borasyc, bruv.

  • peterspc

    what they believe is irrelevant , if they act out such which causes harm to another then such is relevant ?

    • Sargon the bone crusher

      You is not brite, is yooo?

      • DBF

        Shouldn’t that comment have been directed at Leon?

        • Sargon the bone crusher

          Leon is sow dym he is yncaypubul of seeing da powint.

  • lmao

    1081 Muslims took part in the polls for the C4 programme… yet every Muslim in the UK is accounted for in this article. What rubbish

    • Mongo

      you’re right. I expect the reality is even worse than those polls suggest

      • lmao

        Silence, you ignoramus

        • Mongo

          Ha Ha! it must sting that your first ever comment on disqus was so pi$$poor that the only upvote it recieved was from yourself

          • PhilTTipp

            Lolworthy. Good grief.

      • minaka2

        Of course the reality is even worse when you factor in the number of Muslims who follow Islamic instruction to LIE to infidels to gain strategic advantage for allah. It’s called takiya and people who believe polling of Muslims elicits truth from these colonizers are incredibly uninformed and naive.

        • red2black

          A few years ago I was assured by a Christian Fundamentalist work colleague that it was fine for him to lie to non-believers. And lie he did.

          • rosebery

            Which tells you a lot about the fundamentalist religious of whatever doctrine.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Funny you should say that. I’ve found that Catholics and Jews will lie through their teeth when cornered. But that’s not to say that all Christians are truthful. Equal opportunity hate monger, me.

          • red2black

            You equal opportunity hate monger, you.

    • Bonkim

      That is how statistical analysis is made. How you draw the survey sample is a critical part of the exercise.

    • Sean L

      In 1081 we were compiling the Domesday book, documenting what belonged to whom. Meanwhile the Castillian Kings were having some military successes against a number of Islamic principalities in southern Iberia, in what was otherwise the golden age of Islam. You could say we’ve gone or are going full circle. Except this time the Muslims are here by invitation. And they didn’t have to *take* our land, we’re giving it to them. Where I live that’s In the form of publicly subsidised housing. But I dare say half the madrasas are in receipt of public money also. We could do with another Domesday book: how much of England is owned by the English?

      • lmao

        Thanks for all the land, Shawn

        • Sean L

          Thank *you* for thanking me. But it’s political not personal. I happen to agree with your original comment. But whether or not the poll represents the true opinion of a greater or lesser proportion of Muslims is an irrelevance. Indeed if they polled me on many of these things, according to what we’re told are “British values” I’d probably be categorised as a Muslim myself. But that only shows how misconceived it is to construe political allegiance as a matter of mere opinion on the political fashion of the day. After all, segregating the sexes was and still ought to be commonplace in many contexts here, while homosexual acts were illegal until very recently. Does that mean if the Islamic colonisation occurred a hundred years ago there’d have been automatic concord? Half the problem is that we’ve created a political culture where the question of allegiance on the part of the indigenous cannot even be articulated. Whereas to previous generations it was instinctive: When asked by an interviewer long after his retirement what he *truly believed*, former Labour PM Harold Wilson replied: “Oh, Queen and country, the rest is just politics.” While his contemporary, the former member for Wolverhampton, a hard core conservative, once told Mrs Thatcher that he’d fight for this country even if it had a communist government. But by the logic of this survey Islam might as well be just another political party, rather than a form of membership and allegiance whose expansion is commanded by divine sanction.

          • SunnyD

            Your last sentence hits the nail on the head: Islam isn’t just a religion. Islam is a cultural, religious and political system. Only the political system is of interest to kafirs since it determines how we are defined and treated – I take it you’re either a convert or you quite like the idea of paying jizya?

          • Damaris Tighe

            During the programme I was struck by the low percentage (20%?) of the control group who were against same s*x marriage. It shows how quickly public opinion in the general population has moved. Even ten years ago I doubt the proportion would be so low. This fast change in cultural/social mores is without precedent.

            I have to say I was concerned that Muslim opinion was compared with fashionable liberal issues that have only become normative in the last few years.

            And asking the Muslim respondents whether they agree with SSM gives it a status in British society that it doesn’t deserve. It’s a novelty whereas monogamous (as opposed to polygamous) marriage between man & woman was the ideal for two thousand years. The survey nevertheless made SSM the standard, an example of smuggling in an assumption of extreme liberal values.

            Edit: I am aware that there was a separate question about polygamy.

          • Mr.D.Advocate

            ‘This fast change in cultural/social mores is without precedent.’

            Fear of being hounded by screaming PC harpy hordes across all forms of social media is a powerful motivator to hide your true feelings.

          • rosebery

            Just as well that voting is still in secret [so far]. Although we will have to do something about postal vote fraud eventually, as it has become egregiously corrupt in some areas.

          • Sean L

            Now known as “British values” – didn’t you get the memo?

      • SunnyD

        so you’re responsible for the Domesday book? that’s a rather outlandish claim, even for you!

      • red2black

        The Domesday Book was commissioned by foreigners.

    • AK

      What wasn’t reporting on the documentary raises suspicion. Here are a few examples:

      1. According to the data, the participants were asked if they understand why Jihadi John was radicalised, the control group (non-Muslims) response was higher than Muslims, 27% to 13%. They didn’t mention this as it obviously did not suit Trevor Phillips’ agenda.

      2. They were also asked if they understand why schoolgirls were attracted to become “jihadi brides”. The control group (non Muslim) response was marginally higher than Muslims, 26% to 25%.

      3. The data also showed that 34% of Muslims and 30% of the control group (non Muslim) would not report to police someone they thought was getting involved in terrorism. The results was very similar, yet the Muslims were highlighted as having a unique problem.

      You can verify the results yourself by downloading the data: http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

    • PhilTTipp

      Can you spell ‘s t a t i s t i c a l l y – s i g n i f i c a n t’ Dummkopf?

      • SunnyD

        don’t you mean “dummfok”?

      • Cal

        In this case, even if the data is statistically significant (and we don’t know if it is) we have no knowledge of the prior population probabilities. We really need to have this information to make sense of the data presented.

    • Marcus

      It’s called a representative sample, as with all studies about anything. How many do you think would be appropriate?

    • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

      So, if was 99.99% of the demographic you’d still have a problem?

  • God’s Honor

    Is there a way to blame this on the Joooos?

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      Actually, yes. It’s dificult to prosecute Muslims for female genital mutilation, while circumcision is ignored.

      • Anna Bananahammok

        Idiotic comparison.
        I have never met a circumcised man (fortunately for myself, I have met a few) who complained about being circumcised, the contrary actually. They are all very happy.
        While FGM is designed to inflict as much pain as possible, for the rest of the sexual life of the woman, male circumcision, achieves the exact opposite: prolonged pleasure for both men and women.
        Personally I’d also like to say that I find uncircumcised men terribly unattractive, always have, and the way they complain about circumcision, while being blissfully ignorant that the circumcised men are much superior lovers, is rather hilarious.

        • kitten

          That’s absolute rubbish. Male circumcision is still mutilation and it gives reduced pleasure as the end is desensitised as its unprotected.

        • Johnny Foreigner ✓ Very angry

          Is that why you’ve never invited me round for tea & crumpets then?

        • Ha ha ha ha – you swallowed the Koolaid for sure. Circumcision of males removes hundreds of thousands of important sensitivity providing nerve cells present in the foreskin, and then exposes the glans of the pe nis to the open air and the chaffing of underwear which causes the skin to thicken and desensitise. The end of the pe nis was designed by evolution to be wet and covered in mucosa. Circumcision prevents that and damages the sensitivity of the organ in an irrevocable way. What insanity causes fans of circumcision to think that you can improve on the design of the body of healthy normal individuals by surgical alteration? It is the most insane thing ever propagated on certain religious groups and Americans in general. It must make a large income stream for the dishonest physicians of America though, chopping off the foreskins of virtually every healthy male child.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            ‘Ha ha ha ha ha’ must be the sound you hear after your deed, you poor thing.

            Nowhere have I written that I have not had uncircumcised lovers, but you live in some strange parallel universe, where you write with conviction about things you know nothing of, while I wrote about things I do know, and I have experienced.

            You just don’t like coming out the loser in the equation. Sorry mate, you should have been used to it by now.

          • Surprisingly aggressive but hey…. that’s fine if it’s how you like it.

            “Nowhere have I written that I have not had uncircumcised lovers”

            “I have never met a circumcised man (fortunately for myself, ”

            Forgive my confusion Anna, but what am I to make of this. these quotes are lifted directly from the posts of yours and can be found immediately above this remark…..

            My position on the damage done to penile sensitivity by circumcision is well supported in clinical studies and even in common sense. Indeed your comment about the prolonging of the act above supports it…. ‘The act of love’ prolonged because the male part is functioning at a less than optimum sensitivity. In fact males who make good lovers control their own state of arousal mentally for the benefit of their partners…. They don’t require bits to be cut off the natural male equipment. How would you feel about a pseudo medical procedure which took a healthy female vulva and cut off the labia so that the naturally damp tissue dried out and became less sensitive? How about some primitive tribe cutting off the lips on their children’s faces and revealing dry gums and teeth? These mucosa including the natural pe nis are designed by nature and are perfectly wholesome and healthy in so far as people operate normal hygiene procedures such as cleaning the teeth and normal washing of the body.

            It completely astounds me that any developed society would operate such a barbaric practice of cutting off parts of healthy genitalia of any person, male or female. This is how we are designed. There is nothing wrong or unwholesome about it. It exists only because of ridiculous superstition and pseudo medical nonsense designed to drag money into the coffers of medics and hospitals from unnecessary and damaging surgery.

            You will notice that I am not responding in an abusive fashion to your own abusive tone. Have a good day.

          • Anna Bananahammok

            Sorry, I assumed you knew how to read properly.

          • You seem to think appalling rudeness is a useful attribute. There is nothing more to be said to you madam.

          • Dominic Stockford

            Recent research shows that sensitivity is utterly unaltered by circumcision.

          • Ha ha ha ha Bet you’ve had it done. No one who has one would say that.

          • trobrianders

            It’s a barbaric practice for sure but nowhere in human skin is the layer of protective ceratin as thin. Circumcision did at least inadvertently save countless lives, especially in the 80s/90s.

        • Dominic Stockford

          And many circumcisions take place for medical reasons – anyone who has heard the tears of pain from a child with a foreskin that is too small has wept with them.

        • Jackthesmilingblack

          Clearly you believe God’s handiwork can be improved upon.

      • God’s Honor

        It’s not difficult at all. Just try really hard.

    • Why bring that up? I watched the programme and I can’t recall any mention of such a group as ‘Joooos’. They didn’t mention ‘Jews’ either, or even Clingons. Stick to the point why not.

      • God’s Honor

        Because I don’t want to.

  • AK

    What wasn’t reporting on the documentary raises suspicion. Here are a few examples:

    1. According to the data, the participants were asked if they understand why Jihadi John was radicalised, the control group (non-Muslims) response was higher than Muslims, 27% to 13%. They didn’t mention this as it obviously did not suit Trevor Phillips’ agenda.

    2. They were also asked if they understand why schoolgirls were attracted to become “jihadi brides”. The control group (non Muslim) response was marginally higher than Muslims, 26% to 25%.

    3. The data also showed that 34% of Muslims and 30% of the control group (non Muslim) would not report to police someone they thought was getting involved in terrorism. The results was very similar, yet the Muslims were highlighted as having a unique problem.

    You can verify the results yourself by downloading the data here http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/Mulims-full-suite-data-plus-topline.pdf

    • E.I.Cronin

      I respond to these irrelevant points in our conversation below, but you know what strikes me about your responses? Diversity extremists & Multicultists will sacrifice anything for their cause. They will jettison any principle. They will gleefully throw reason & honesty to the winds and abandon anyone’s welfare and safety to accomplish their aims. Indeed, even the bodily integrity of children is regarded as an acceptable loss – as the brutal rapes and assaults across Germany and Sweden show. That’s how morally reprehensible Multiculturalism has become.

      • Penny

        After some searching I found your earlier comment – it pretty much echoes the reply I was poised to give AK.

        I could quite easily have responded in the affirmative to Q1 and Q2, because the word “understand” allows for interpretation. I “understand” why “Jihadi John” was radicalised and I “understand” why girls may want to be jihadi brides because I’ve reviewed the many articles written about both and, intellectually, the information has been noted. This, of course, is not the same as sympathetically “understanding”.

        As for Q3, I can understand wariness, and for the reasons you cite. After the arrest of that man for his unfortunate Tweet, I felt that the police, in acting as they did, had not learned much from Rotherham. If “Can you explain Brussels?” can land you in so much trouble, what might happen if you are mistaken in voicing your suspicions about a potential terrorist?

        • E.I.Cronin

          Thanks Penny – your 2nd paragraph expresses what I was trying to say to AK much more clearly.

          It would be so useful to see more honest, nuanced surveys that elicit the emotional sympathy the ideal of Jihad (and hatred of the Kuffar) evokes from Muslims. On reading the texts, particularly the al-Bukhari Hadith, what strikes me is how Jihad is presented as a heroic, noble and moral sacrifice – everything a devout, idealistic young man or woman strives to be. Because until most Westerners understand we are dealing with a radically different type of religion to what we are accustomed to in the Judeo-Christian or in Eastern faiths, there’s no chance of social policy changing. Or so I believe.

          Yes absolutely – we are all wary now and for good reason. A friend just told me about the CDU agreeing to the prosecution of a German comedian for mocking Erdogan! Isn’t that sinister? The EUrocrats are showing their true face – a totalitarian one. Still, there do seem to be cracks in the wall and so many are speaking their doubts publicly I can’t see how they can silence us all. Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s comment about all of us ‘sharing the risks’ is more and more relevant.

          • Penny

            I think the point you make about Westerners understanding a radically different type of religion is very pertinent. The England of my childhood memories is one in which religion was barely discernible – it simply wasn’t important. I often think of it as being almost a quaint picture postcard: vicarages in leafy lanes; church fetes with hat-wearing ladies behind the Victoria sponge stall; Sunday schools where children coloured in drawings of Noah’s ark or listened to stories about Jonah and the whale; Christmas carols; organ music; hymns; weddings, christenings and funerals – that was the external face of the dominant religion in England.

            Having spoken to friends about my childhood memories, it would seem we all share this image of a country in which “faith” was quiet and benign. As I grew older I was taught that it was impolite to ask others about their politics, their salary and their religious beliefs. You might know that your neighbours were Catholics, Anglicans, Jews etc – but it simply wasn’t a matter of interest or discussion. Everyone got on with their faith behind their own front door and nowhere else.

            Which is all a long way round saying that because our experience of religion was of this picture postcard scene, we were so very ill-prepared for the arrival of a faith that dominates every aspect of life. With our own historical and bloody religious events hundreds of years in the past, we had no framework by which to know how to even begin to manage a religion like Islam because it simply hadn’t been in our cultural experience. Where we were decades ago with our leafy lane vicarages, hat-wearing, church fete-managing and carol singing congregations is where I want to be now. I find it mind-boggling that we’ve travelled from there to a place where religion is now of great concern.

          • E.I.Cronin

            Thanks for the great message Penny. The evocation of childhood England is lovely. It made me think of my dear grandparents, working class Anglo Aussies, devoted Christians but who wore their faith gently and led by example. You’re right there was a quiet, private dignity about that kind of faith. I was quite surprised on being told (long after they’d died) how devout they were as I can’t remember being lectured or preached to even once.

            A friend pointed out Jesus criticises public displays of prayer in the NT. And of course Muslims in the West make quite a spectacle of praying in public – it’s a real affront to our cultural tradition of private religious practice. I can’t remember which French leader or writer compared the public bowing to a gesture of occupation.

    • SunnyD

      even if what you say is true, all it tells me is that the control group are: a) more honest and/or b) have better understanding (due to not having been brainwashed) of the underlying causes
      you can go back to the UAE now

    • You need to consider such statistical concepts as effect size and statistical significance. Small differences between groups are not important so will be ignored. It is the major differences in attitudes which are important.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Kick the clitchoppers out.

  • Glen

    Who is this ‘we’ to whom you refer?

    • Sean L

      Good question. But say you require legal protection of your person, whom do you expect to provide it? Does that not in itself constitute a form of membership?

      • Glen

        In the context of the article I am not included in that particular ‘we’

    • trobrianders

      Reminds me of Homer Simpson’s telephone call to a Japanese corporation, “To whom may I say is speaking to me?”

  • Maureen Fisher

    In my youth it was fashionable to be a Marxist. Now it’s fashionable for certain young people to be Islamists. What is most disturbing is that the fashionable young Marxists who grew up think they have some common ground with younger Islamists. The fact is, the Islamo left have given oxygen to Islamists.

    • SunnyD

      which proves my point that the loony left ARE OXYGEN THIEVES! 😀

      • kitten

        I think its the uber liberals that are responsible.

    • The marxists generally sought to achieve their aims by persuasion as opposed to murder and self immolation in suicide bombings.

      • John

        Opposed to murder?

        Hmmmm

        • I’m talking about western Marxists. I don’t and didn’t support them by the way, but they were not threatening us.

          • rosebery

            So, all those marxist terrorist groups in Europe [including the IRA, ETA, Red Army Fraction, etc] in the 70s were not threatening anyone?

          • OKAY – fair point. My remark was wrong.

          • trobrianders

            Although Georges Marchais was a pussycat

          • Never heard of him.

          • trobrianders

            Really? The most famous of the western communists of whom you were speaking.

          • hepworth

            They are now.

      • Fulgentian

        Like ‘persuading’ them to go to the Gulag?

      • rosebery

        Really? Really? My entire experience of history has, apparently, happened in an alternative universe from yours.

      • Toy Pupanbai

        Are you joking?

    • trobrianders

      Even a mainstream figure like Ken who is once again at the top of policy-making, can appear on primetime tv applauding the sacrifice of the suicide Islamists of 7/7 and there is no comeback. Have things really degenerated so far?

  • Richard Baranov

    Three was nothing “shocking” in this programme. Nothing was said that I or thousands of others who have lived experience of Islam didn’t already know. What is shocking is that the establishment has wilfully followed a path that made it possible fo