Ancient and modern

How ancient Rome turned immigrants into citizens

12 September 2015

9:00 AM

12 September 2015

9:00 AM

In the migration crisis, the EU is currently acting just like the ancients, as if border controls did not exist, though the mass, peaceful migration we see today was not a tremendously common occurrence then.

The reason is that in the ancient world, every male was a potential warrior. So in conflict they would either fight to defend their land and, if they lost, be killed or sold into slavery, or they would flee, en masse, as Germanic tribes did into the Roman Empire in the 4th century ad, escaping the Hun onslaught. Since this represented a potential threat, Romans fought off some, but welcomed others, giving them land and status in return for service in the army. Many did well out of it.


At the individual level, however, there was constant movement of people wanting to better themselves. Places like Rome acted as a magnet, and in one instance Rome had to send back arrivals from local Latin states which complained of losing manpower so fast that soon ‘towns and farms would be deserted’. As for foreigners, Romans were prejudiced, but not racist. Those with talent who did in Rome what Romans did could do very well. Acculturation was the key.

It was Rome’s boast that from early times they had understood the virtues of intelligent dealing with outsiders. Livy tells the story of Rome’s peaceful takeover of the town of Alba (c. 650 bc), whose leaders had broken oaths of loyalty to Rome. The town was to be razed to the ground, but the Albans were assured that they would be made welcome. Livy movingly describes the natural feelings of despair among the inhabitants as they abandoned their homes and gods and saw their town being destroyed, but goes on: ‘Rome grew on Alba’s ruins.’ The Albans were made citizens and settled on the Caelian hill, their chief men became senators, and prestigious squadrons of Alban soldiers were formed.

The emperor Claudius (ad 41–54) said that Rome’s success lay in knowing how to turn outsiders into allies. The EU countries now have a chance to show they can do the same.

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Show comments
  • misomiso

    But we can’t under EU Law.

    The Bargain with immigration used to be that there was a obligation to assimilate into the host society through learning the language, respecting the culture etc.

    multiculturalism has destroyed that, as we say that all cultures are relative and must be respected under EU law; the state must even provide resources to those who can’t speak English.

    There would be a lot loss of a backlash if we had stronger legal safeguards to preserve British culture and society.

    • Bonkim

      No harm trying.

      • Alyssa

        seriously- i’m from the US but NOW is the time to try. I doubt anyone would go for this- but maybe you can try getting people with more similar cultures to move to the UK? . People with European descent are extremely spread out.

        Honestly- UK (and others) can’t be afraid to bluntly admit that for cultural reasons (and financial reasons)- they are NOT accepting more immigration. Many countries do this (Japan, South Korea, China, the rich Gulf States, etc. without the LEAST bit of shame). The biggest roadblock is the EU government (may counties are getting annoyed at the EU- maybe collectively you can work out a deal). its not a crime to not want to be multi cultural.

        • Bonkim

          Europe’s days are numbered. As are the US’

          • Sue Smith

            Yes, with a lame duck president biding his time with Bear Grills in Alaska things can only go from bad to worse. Seriously.

          • Bonkim

            Nothing is for ever – everything in nature has a life cycle.

          • Sue Smith

            Undoubtedly, but why give it a leg up – on steroids?

          • Alyssa

            seriously…. what’s going on was premeditated by the global elites

          • Sue Smith

            And, as I’ve said elsewhere here, the Germans do everything by extremes. This is just another example.

          • Alyssa

            this argument could support us though………………

            and I disagree NOTHING is forever. some things are forever.

          • Alyssa

            I think Obama is getting exactly what he wants

          • Alyssa

            then people who want to maintain their culture should move elsewhere

          • Neil Saunders

            I’m English, Alyssa. Where do you suggest I should move to in order to maintain my culture?

          • The Hoxton Hockler

            Gibraltar.

          • Neil Saunders

            Your name isn’t Alyssa, is it?

            Still, your little tip might come in useful if the 30,000 or so current inhabitants of Gibraltar can somehow be persuaded to make room on their little peninsula for several tens of millions of us.

          • Alyssa

            lol would be nice.. i have a feeling that wouldn’t work out though

          • Alyssa

            The people of European descent (who at least have more similar cultures to each other than others) either have to consolidate or give up their culture and way of life. People in the US and many places in Europe are ALL having immigration concerns. They need to work together if they actually want to do something about it.

            If this is something people care about- they need to start thinking of solutions. If not- then they can continue doing nothing

          • Neil Saunders

            That’s true enough.

          • Bonkim

            The solution is to get rid of the misfits.

          • Alyssa

            western society have too much land for the amount of people they have though

          • Bonkim

            Better organised and hard working – and not breeding like flies.

          • Alyssa

            I’m saying that if they don’t consolidate they won’t be able to maintain their culture- that is all.

          • Bonkim

            Who cares? If they consolidate too much – will take over.

          • Alyssa

            maybe .. i guess peace is just not an option for some people. it’s sad

          • Neil Saunders

            The South-East of England is one of the most densely populated places on the planet, Alyssa.

            England as a whole is the most densely populated country in Europe, and is third in the world behind Bangladesh and South Korea.

            If you think that the area adjacent to the M25 resembles the endless open prairies of the American Midwest then you are misinformed.

          • Alyssa

            England also has lots of immigration (hence London being known as the International City).. but yes the US is huge. Europe has a lot of immigration as does the US. China with all Chinese people is densely populated as is india so not much immigration to those places….

            Japan refuses immigration even though they have an aging population…. not everybody feels bad doing that.

          • Alyssa

            those of european descent are 15% of the world population

            a true minority. just wait until they are a minority everywhere

          • Alyssa

            think of other minorities (the Armenians and the Ashkenazi Jews.. however supposedly the Armenians contributed a high amount of DNA to modern Europe.)

            …Then imagine being a minority without a homeland.

          • Neil Saunders

            On current trends we don’t have to wait very long.

          • Alyssa

            People should note- 75% of the “refugees” are men, 12% women, and 13% children………….

            Most of these people are NOT refugees……

          • Neil Saunders

            No, they’re economic migrants. Not that that makes any difference in terms of its demographic consequences.

          • Neil Saunders

            Japan is right, and other societies that really want to survive and flourish should follow her example. GDP may fall with a declining population but per capita income is likely to rise; this is something that the banks and transnational corporations (along with their political enablers in bodies like the EU, the UN, the World Bank, the BIS, etc.) dread.

          • Mr B J Mann

            Interestingly, apparently Japan tried to re-import the descendants of Japanese emigrants from South America, but even though they were thought to have retained the Japanese culture they could not be re-integrated easily!

          • Alyssa

            It might be better than an alternative though…

            What solution are you proposing?

          • Alyssa

            and I think many white people are willing to make an effort to integrate in certain situations….There are some very important values that many of those with European descent share.

          • Neil Saunders

            Two spectres are currently haunting Europe: 1) A decadent, globalising elite, hell bent on the destruction of sovereign nations, the dilution and replacement of their native populations and the consequent erasure of their cultures; 2) A resurgent Islam, brought by immigrants (arriving under whatever pretext) from the Muslim crescent that encircles the southern and eastern flanks of Europe.

            A third spectre, however, is arising in response: 3) Nationalism, based on blood-and-soil rather than the civic abstractions of “proposition nations” (or the transnational leviathans created as a result of conjoining them – like the body parts of Frankenstein’s Monster stitched crudely together – by the bureaucratic fiat of stateless carpetbaggers and one-world utopians).

          • Alyssa

            good points

          • Callipygian

            Some of us don’t want any of that but just believe in freedom and decent self-government. That’s what America was founded on; that’s what Britain arrived at by different means; and that’s what the Anglosphere as a whole stands for.

          • Neil Saunders

            It doesn’t matter what you want, or what you believe in; the “spectres” are what you’ve got and will continue to get.

          • Callipygian

            I’ll just reply with three words: Not Dead Yet!

          • Neil Saunders

            We might wish we were before too long, though.

          • Callipygian

            Don’t be so defeatist. Give me liberty etc.

          • Neil Saunders

            Go on, finish the quotation.

          • Callipygian

            Or I’ll fight to the death.

          • Neil Saunders

            A little bit of poetic licence there, I’d say.

          • Callipygian

            No, it means the same thing: I mean merely to emphasize that the death is not necessarily my own.

          • Alyssa

            are you hoping for the death of white people?

          • Neil Saunders

            No! Why do you think that I might?

          • Alyssa

            Many of your responses are defeatist and negative regarding this topic

          • Neil Saunders

            They’re realistic, Alyssa. If you lived in the South-East of England, as I do, you’d understand.

          • Alyssa

            You remind me of a very important trait that is associated with white people: Innovation.

          • Neil Saunders

            Well, I think all human beings are capable of innovation – it’s one of the things that defines us as a species. That said, white Europeans have been abundantly inventive in ways that other races have not been, or not so conspicuously.

          • Alyssa

            I agree all humans are capable of innovation- was saying that its a trait that Europeans and European cultures have valued/been associated as having.

            do you believe many cultures have abundant innovations behind closed doors? I know Japan has been experimenting with robots to help with their aging population problems (as opposed to immigrants)- I wouldn’t say that’s a secret though.

          • Neil Saunders

            Do I think that the Headhunters of New Guinea have independently discovered Calculus, developed Penicillin and perfected nuclear weapons, but are just hiding their light under the rainforest to keep us all guessing? No.

          • Alyssa

            Then what do you think exactly

          • Neil Saunders

            How long have you got, Alyssa?

          • Alyssa

            This is true. Freedom of speech and expression among the most important of our values and should never be taken away (for men AND women). Another thing that stands out to me is that many white people are (or value) creativity/big picture thinkers (sometimes called “ADHD” LOL). Christianity is another unifying factor (although I am aware many are not religious, which is not always a good thing).

            Important to note- what many perceive as freedom isn’t always such. Powerful lobbying groups influence public opinion. Centralized power controls mainstream media. Too much centralized power is NEVER good.There are those who appear moral who are working for their own special interests, and are working against other groups including and especially white people.. “The illusion of altruism is often used to hide selfish intentions”.

            The Earth does not have unlimited access to resources, so unlimited freedom and complete self- government is likely not possible.

          • PaD
          • Neil Saunders

            Dear old Peter Sutherland! He really is a man of the people, isn’t he? An EU Commissioner, non-executive director of Goldman Sachs International, on the Steering Committee of the Bilderberg Group, erstwhile Director General of GATT – the list goes on and on – and now the UN’s Special Representative for Migration.

          • Bonkim

            Up to them if they cannot adapt and change.

          • Alyssa

            Or they can forage a new path. it’s not a question of whether they CAN adapt and change- it’s a question of whether they want to.

            As Japan is clearly aware, not everything should be changed.

            The question is- what’s worth (non-violently) fighting for? Is there a solution that allow all parties to retain the fundamental aspects of their culture and most important values?

          • Bonkim

            Absolutely we need to guard against backward religions and cultures corrupting the gains made over the last two centuries.

            Not sure why people fleeing persecution should expect to be accommodated in an advanced society if they are not prepared to adapt and change to more enlightened ways.

            Islamic societies are by and large failed or failing simply because they have not changed for centuries. Best they stay where they feel at home and not where they will be discriminated against and exploited for generations – living in voluntary Apartheid.

          • Alyssa

            I think they should be allowed to live how they want to as long as they aren’t being violent/forcing their ways upon other people. The people making decisions about and wanting to get involved in the middle east are the same ones forcing this mass migration

          • Alyssa

            we don’t actually know WHY the gov does anything it does (including whatever it is doing in the middle east…) i mean its not like the gov is honest and open LOL

          • Bonkim

            How long do you think it will last?

          • Alyssa

            you seem to be posting comments that are arguing opposite stances—

            what is your opinion about the mass immigration to europe?

          • Bonkim

            Keep them out – the mistake was not to sink the boats and rescuing the rubbish. Islam is contagion.

          • Alyssa

            keep WHO out

          • PaD
          • Alyssa

            Also- so many articles criticizing Europe are like “Why is Europe so anti-immigration?”

            What about about all of the countries that are actually anti-immigration? Europe and the US are the MOST accepting of immigration. I wonder who is publishing these articles …. and I’m surprised so many people fall for these blatantly obvious lies

          • Bonkim

            Have you tried emigrating to Islamic countries? Best of luck!

          • Alyssa

            Your comments aren’t making sense-

            I’m saying that the refugees should immigrate to the gulf states. why would i go there I am not a Muslim refugee

          • Bonkim

            Refugees have no choice – beggars cannot be choosers. They should stay at the first safe location – not travel thousands of miles paying people traffickers – they are mostly economic migrants – and no sympathy.

          • Alyssa

            according to the media- they can be choosers. they WANT to go to Germany and then change their mind demanding to go to Sweden. I wonder the impact this will have on Europe’s poor.

            The immigrants are embarking on a dangerous journey as opposed to going to the wealthy countries right near where they came from……………………..

          • PaD
          • Bonkim

            Sutherland is an idiot – don’t give him publicity.

          • Alyssa

            that’s really messed up what he’s said though- you don’t think people should be aware?

          • Bonkim

            Sutherland is an idiot.

          • Alyssa

            with that i agree. however, he should get publicity

          • Neil Saunders

            A powerful idiot, though. The kind we need to be aware of.

          • PaD

            better start that stand…and soon

            http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

        • Neil Saunders

          You fail to understand the secretive and undemocratic nature of the EU, an unaccountable transnational tyranny which has destroyed the sovereignty of the member states gradually and stealthily over its few decades of existence.

          • Alyssa

            I believe it- there is no harm in trying to do something about it though. Hungary is already building a fence and publicly complaining about the immigration. The more people that take their stance/work with them, the higher chance there is of success.

          • Alyssa

            Never thought I was saying this- but Putin was right about this. He warned the EU gov would do this and they will continue to do it if people continue to do nothing (I should say the EU AND US gov)

          • Neil Saunders

            For all his faults, Putin is looking like the last real European statesman, and Russia the last redoubt of Western Civilisation.

          • Alyssa

            you think his support is temporary?

            Don’t get me wrong- I’m not against Western Civilization, but I am against certain aspects of current Western Civilization. It is not what it was meant to be and has become corrupt.

            For example- freedom is important, but so are family values.

          • Neil Saunders

            I’d agree, Alyssa. However, I don’t think that cut-throat capitalism is part of Western Civilisation, but a perversion of it.

          • Neil Saunders

            I agree, but surely just running away is not the answer, Alyssa, is it?

          • Alyssa

            I wouldn’t use the term “running away”- but it’s def not ideal. Do you have an alternative idea? Unless you are a fan of the do nothing option.

          • Neil Saunders

            I have plenty of alternative ideas, Alyssa. Unfortunately, they are exactly 180 degrees from the ideas of the recent and current political, media and business elites here and of anyone who’s likely to run the country in the future.

            We indigenous English who recognise our current and prospective condition are utterly disenfranchised, and we are rapidly (and intentionally) being outbred. A similar pattern is playing out across the rest of Western Europe.

          • Alyssa

            Christians have been running for thousands of years. Now is the time to unite.

          • Alyssa

            Denmark is standing strong as well! It looks like those opposed to this immigration have lots of allies

          • PaD
        • PaD
        • seriously.

          White people are the biggest sleeping giant.

          White people need to have a unifying culture. Everyone else has a culture- we need to stand up for ourselves. The media is trying to make white men be wimps.

    • Alyssa

      then protest the EU law

      • Neil Saunders

        Or even “protest against” it on this side of the Atlantic.

        Which, in any case, would be just as futile.

      • Franny

        the eu is so unaccountable that protests simply would not work – any protests can be compartmentalised within countries, treated as national issues and dealt with my local governments without anyone in the eu commission or parliament batting an eyelid. it would take the entire eu to protest at the same time, specifically against the eu, in a widespread manner to make any difference. think about it like a ship. the eu has various watertight bulkheads – if several fill up, the ship will still carry on as usual. a more accountable country (e.g. the usa – which, as well, contains a homogenous culture which means that protests – e.g. black lives matter – spread far further) will be holed before the waterline and just sink, or ‘give in’ in real terms.

        • Alyssa

          I think that peaceful protests would have impact if enough people participated.

          many in the “Black Lives Matter” group have started violent chants though/or even acts of violence…….. Why wouldn’t that be shut down?

          • Franny

            i was just naming an example of how easily a protest can spread in a relatively homogenous country, like the usa, not referencing the violent acts committed – the difference is that europe is made up of multiple different nations with huge historic divides and different languages, meaning that these protests do not spread between countries, hence peaceful or other protests are absolutely useless because they can be compartmentalised and do not exert any real pressure on the politicians in brussels, many of whom are unelected anyway

          • Martin Christensen

            This is simply not true, there has been several cases of protests that are widespread over countries in the EU. Of course it has to be issues that concern people in different parts of EU and not just national issues, but is this really different from the U.S.?
            And please don’t misunderstand me, I’m extremely critical to EU, to the point of wanting out of it. My concern is the lack of democracy as well.

          • Franny

            I think that you misunderstand what I am getting at. Obviously, the same things piss us all off – immigration, gay marriage, etc. which means that we will have protests on the same subject, but we will never be able to coordinate protests across multiple different countries and groups that create enough concerted pressure in a certain time and a certain place to change EU policy, and hence protests area obsolete as a democratic instrument against EU policy – it is part of the genius of the madcap scheme. Without the formation of a huge, inter-European movement (all but impossible), this will remain the case. Have you ever seen Whitehall, the Champs Elysees and Gendarmenmarkt full of people protesting the same thing at the same time?

            A case in point is milk – just as an example; the actual protests were not that important. British, French and Belgian farmers all conducted lively protests against low milk prices, but they occurred in different times and with different focuses. Part of this is that people only saw it as a national issue (when it was EU – a huge problem with many protests) and the other part is that it was simply impossible to coordinate with other countries. The farmers don’t speak the same language or even have any bespoke links with other European farmers. The difference with the USA is obvious – protests there can spread through social media/national news outlets in the same language across the same region and can be coordinated by national bodies against the federal government, which quite rightly is given its share of blame – it does not take a genius to work any of this out.

            Part of the real genius of the EU is this – it is one stage removed from democratic accountability (little of which exists anyway), and so the weak divided protests can be passed off and compartmentalised within national structures, and hence, nothing affects the overriding EU. The only salvation are national Eurosceptic movements.

          • Martin Christensen

            Haha, no one is actually protestant against gay marriage in Europe, we are not american. But that’s beside the main discussion. Actually it has happend, for example Frence farmers have had their way with the EU by protesting.
            I do agree that the EU lack democratic accountability but I don’t agree that it’s especially hard to make protests in several countries, not really harder than in the U.S.

          • Alyssa

            I am not against gay marriage, however I am against the over-emphasis of gay marriage by the media.

            This has caused much damage to American society (most protestants I know don’t have strong opinions against gay marriage even though they don’t necessarily agree with it) that is just not the most concerning issue

          • Martin Christensen

            Somehow most of the politicians we elect in Europe are very pro EU. If we elected a majority of EU sceptical politicians then the EU as we know it would be in trouble.

            I think we disagree on many things but agree that the EU is not very democratic and it’s a huge problem. Maybe we can end the discussion with that.

          • Alyssa

            won’t work- elections can be manipulated

          • Martin Christensen

            If elections are manipulated then the Democratic structure doesn’t matter anyway. I live in a small country and I have full confidence in elections here, we have a much closer relationship with politicians than in larger countries I guess. Some things are just easier in small societies.

          • Franny

            I think that we’d agree on more than you think – my Euroscepticism is fundamentally based on the lack of democracy and the internal cultural differences (Northern Europe has the rule of law while the South has the rule of corruption), rather than on immigration, etc. Disagreeing over the power of protest is really a small point in comparison – I’ll leave it at that

          • Alyssa

            Unless the people opposed to those things complain together (leaders of countries that are opposed).

            What do you think should be done? Besides nothing, the only options seem to be work out a protest in unity (there is a first time for everything), or for people opposed to move elsewhere if their government is not cooperative.

          • Franny

            As a selfish Brit, Brexit seems the only option

      • PaD

        No point while people like this have massive influence.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

    • Martin Christensen

      What EU laws are you talking about?
      In my country if you want to become citizen you both have to pass language exams, knowledge test about the culture and have stayed here consistently with only few breaks for a number of years.

      • PaD

        not if this EU BIGWIG gets his way.

        http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

        • Martin Christensen

          Did you actually read what he says.
          It’s a fact that refugees are very expensive, we do not take asylum seekers for economical reasons but for humanitarian reasons. But he’s talking about working immigrants which is something very different.
          Multiculturalism is not a problem, what is a problem is parallel societies. There’s a difference in being assimilated and integrated. If people are not integrated then it’s a huge problem. Assimilation is something that happens, perhaps not in the first generation. Clearly integration becomes harder if a society cannot adapt to more freedom and higher level of acceptance of differences.

          • Alyssa

            the problem is certain groups working AGAINST the country

    • PaD

      you are not wrong…..check this Sutherland character out….it’s the stuff of nightmares…but it’s really happening

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18519395

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  • “As Livy explains, it was Rome’s boast that from early times they understood the virtues of intelligent dealing with outsiders”

    Rome didn’t cause the chaos that produced refugees, as the Marxist co-opted West is…

    The so-called ‘War on Terror’ is an operation being carried out by the Marxist co-opted governments of the West in alliance with the USSR and other Communist nations, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending ‘War on Terror’; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union ‘From the Atlantic to Vladivostok’; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    The following is a discovery I made in April regarding the fake collapse of the USSR, and what that fraudulent collapse proves about the institutions of the West…

    When Soviet citizens were liberated from up to 74 years of horrific Marxist oppression on December 26, 1991 there were ZERO celebrations throughout the USSR, proving (1) the ‘collapse’ of the USSR was a strategic ruse; and (2) the political parties of the West were already co-opted by Marxists,* otherwise the USSR (and East Bloc nations) couldn’t have gotten away with the ruse.

    ZERO celebrations, as the The Atlantic article inadvertently informs us…

    http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/12/20-years-since-the-fall-of-the-soviet-union/100214/

    Notice, however, the Kremlin staged demonstrations that took place in Russia (and other Soviet republics) in the years immediately preceding the ‘collapse’, yet ZERO celebrations after the ‘collapse’!

    For more on this discovery see my blog…

    https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/

    Conclusion:

    The West will form new political parties where candidates are vetted for Marxist ideology, the use of the polygraph to be an important tool for such vetting. Then the West can finally liberate the globe of vanguard Communism.

    ————————-

    * The failed socialist inspired and controlled pan-European revolutions that swept the continent in 1848(1) thought Marxists and socialists a powerful lesson, that lesson being they couldn’t win overtly,(2) so they adopted the tactic of infiltration of the West’s political parties/institutions. In the case of the United States…(continue reading at DNotice)…

    https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/now-you-see-me-now-you-don-t

    Now you know why not one political party in the West requested verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the ‘alternative’ media. When determining whether the ‘former’ USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the ‘former’ USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    The fraudulent ‘collapse’ of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Marxists, which explains why verification of the ‘collapse’ was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    It gets worse–the ‘freed’ Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested/de-mobilized the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of ‘Perestroika’ (1986-1991)!

    There can be no collapse of the USSR (or East Bloc nations) without…

    Verification, De-Communization and De-mobilization.

    The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.

    The above means that the so-called ‘War on Terror’ is an operation being carried out by the Marxist co-opted governments of the West in alliance with the USSR and other Communist nations, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending ‘War on Terror’; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union ‘From the Atlantic to Vladivostok’; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    Now you know how Bolshevik Russia survived in 1917; how the West ‘lost’ China to the Communists in 1949; why the Eisenhower administration turned a deaf ear to the anti-Communist Hungarian uprising in 1956; why the Eisenhower administration in 1959 was indifferent to the Castro brothers’ Communist fidelity, actually used the CIA to overthrow the Batista government; why the Nixon administration abandoned Taiwan for Communist China, and signed treaties/provided economic aid to the USSR; why the Nixon administration refused to tell the American People that over 50% of North Vietnamese NVA regiments were actually Chinese People’s Liberation Army soldiers (attired in NVA uniforms, and proving that the Sino/Soviet Split was a ruse, as KGB defector Major Anatoliy Golitsyn told the West back in 1962), thereby (1) ensuring the Vietnam War would be lost; (2) destroying the prominence of the United States abroad and at home; (3) breeding distrust between the American people and their government; and (4) securing Communist victories in Southeast Asia. Working in the background within the political parties of the United States and Great Britain were Marxist agents doing their best to (1) ensure the survival of Communist nations when they popped up; and (2) sabotage any policies that would bring down a Communist nation. That’s why after the fake collapses of the East Bloc nations and USSR there was no mandatory Western verification process to ensure the Communists weren’t still in control.

    • Tamerlane

      That is some seriously good reefer you’re smoking.

      • Alyssa

        for real lmao

      • “That is some seriously good reefer you’re smoking.”

        Yeah, contrary to accepted scientific opinion marijuana actually concentrates the cognitive senses, allowing one to comprehend the following proofs…

        ‘The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.’

        …and…

        ‘When Soviet citizens were liberated from up to 74 years of horrific Marxist oppression on December 26, 1991 there were ZERO celebrations throughout the USSR, proving (1) the ‘collapse’ of the USSR was a strategic ruse; and (2) the political parties of the West were already co-opted by Marxists,* otherwise the USSR (and East Bloc nations) couldn’t have gotten away with the ruse.’

        …and…

        ‘…the ‘freed’ Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested/de-mobilized the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of ‘Perestroika’ (1986-1991)!’

        The consumption of one marijuana joint per day allows one to see things previously hidden to the sober citizen, such as…

        Red Star, the official newspaper of the Soviet Ministry of Defense…

        http://www.callsignalpha.co.uk/newspaper.jpg

        Note the four Soviet emblems (awards) to the left of the masthead, including the image of Vladimir Lenin in the outer left emblem. Now, click the following link to see the front page for the Russian Ministry of Defense’s official newspaper…

        http://www.redstar.ru/

        It’s still Red Star(!) and continues to proudly showcase the four Soviet awards next to the masthead(!), the outer left award showcasing Lenin! The Soviet era newspaper was never shut down, as the newspaper itself proclaims, “Red Star» © 1924-2014.

        The brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine inexplicably never destroyed their detested Soviet banners, nor did Kiev order the armed forces to destroy the reviled Soviet era banners…

        http://blouinnews.com/sites/default/files/styles/640×432/public/images/story/2014_03_04/7f095050f5b1431d027e102cb4b5d681.jpeg

        …and the left side of the Soviet banner…

        http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/cms/binary/9577387.jpg?size=640×420

        • Tamerlane

          Who has time to read all this? Not me.

          • “Who has time to read all this?”

            Certainly not a Marxist operative such as you, spewing the usual abysmal damage control.

          • Tamerlane

            Darn. How did you know? We’re watching you, I can see what you’re doing through that webcam of yours…tut…tut…I never knew an egg whisk could fit in there…

          • “How did you know?”

            The non-shocked behavior exhibited when you were informed of all the facts I posted above. Very easy! The only reply a Marxist can make are ad hominem in nature. A non-Marxist is shocked and replies accordingly.

          • Tamerlane

            You are sooooo clever. Tell me more Comrade Dean.

          • “Tell me more Comrade Dean.”

            That would be too much for a thread. It’s all at my blog, including this month’s revolutionary article–a political analysis of the Gospels that for the first time poses the question (it’s unbelievable that I’m the only one observing!): How could the Jewish authorities in Judea and Galilee openly affirm Jesus the Messiah when there was a Roman occupation in Judea and Roman soldiers watching King Antipas in the nominally independent Galilee/Perea?!…

            https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/home

          • Tamerlane

            A man can not live on meat alone.

          • The Hoxton Hockler

            Slow reader

      • The Hoxton Hockler

        What is reefer?

  • blandings

    “but welcomed others, giving them land and status in return for service in the army.”

    Well Pete, You’re the prof, but I thought that ended badly.

    • The_greyhound

      Specifically, the arrival en masse of the Goths precipitated the collapse of the Empire in the West.

      Perhaps Pete didn’t know that. Anyone can be an academic these days.

      • blandings

        He knows. Maybe he is being a little mischievous.

    • Callipygian

      I didn’t expect to laugh on this comment scroll, but I just did!

  • The_greyhound

    Sentimental tripe.

    For most people, Roman society was hell on earth. Consider the uses to which slaves were put on the latifundia – beasts of burden, and animals used to turn farm equipment.

    The sentimentalisation of the vile Roman Empire is a favourite topic of that second-rate scholar, and first-rate self-publicist, Mary Beard.

    • Tamerlane

      Wasn’t vile if you were a wealthy Roman, it was bloomin’ marvellous.

      • The Hoxton Hockler

        Wolf nipple chips, get ’em while they’re hot. Otter’s noses. Badger’s spleens.

    • Bonkim

      Look up Ben Hur. Christianity ruined Rome.

      • Alyssa

        The original Romans moved north, no? recent archeology studies have stated that (at least I thought so haha I can check)

      • Sue Smith

        Ben Hur is a fictitious story written by General Lew Wallace. It is an allegorical story about the Christ.

      • msmysterygirl

        A work of fiction? You obviously know little about history. Go grind your axe elsewhere.

    • aspeckofboggart

      It’s part of the proud heritage of Boris. Check out his bestseller.

    • NorthernFirst

      I can see why the elite would admire it.

      I expect it was very easy for the rich to become richer in the Empire.

  • WTF

    Romans were prejudiced, but not racist. Those with talent who did in Rome what Romans did could do very well. Shouldn’t that be Romans were pragmatic and ensured that the only immigrants they wanted were ones that contributed to their well being and culture.

    Now that’s a novel thought, integration of like minded peoples and culture instead of what we now have in Europe a religious culture that is alien to us and brings with it too many barbaric practices. The Romans certainly knew how to deal with malcontents and those unwilling to integrate, off to the Colosseum for the ultimate entertainment of the masses !

    • Tamerlane

      Trouble is they didn’t. Those ‘migrants’ eventually overran and destroyed the Empire. Sound familiar?

      • Velo

        You tell him.

      • WTF

        I think they got complacent and lazy just like the west has. There used to be real immigration checks that are still applied to white people trying to live in the UK or USA but they aren’t applied to ethnic minorities and especially illegals claiming refugee and persecution.

        • Alyssa

          http://milk.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000661

          Look at the variation in Italy, that strengthens the immigration point. The problem is that Europe is accepting too many migrants too quickly to properly assimilate them into the culture. This will ultimately be the destruction of the culture if DRASTIC action is not taken NOW. (no half-way bs)

      • Bonkim

        Yes the vandals and other barbarians brought Rome down – but then Roman power was decimated by bigoted Christianity and Romans became wimps.

  • veritas

    Claudius – invaded Britain.
    ‘Already, while alive, he received the widespread private worship of a living Princeps and was worshipped in Britannia in his own temple in Camulodunum.’

    Shall we be worshipping the divine Jun[c]kers at Colchester soon?

    • Bonkim

      Absolute monarchs need to be worshipped absolutely.

  • Bonkim

    There were no Islamic or Christian bigots then and most incomers adapted and changed to norms set by the ruling classes. Human rights as we know them today did not exist and it was easy to manage servants and slaves – they did what they were told. No UN or EU human rights courts either.

  • Tellytubby

    The comparison is a slightly mistaken one.

    The way I interpret this is that Rome in the late republic and early imperial era did an excellent job of incorporating immigrants because they didn’t extend the franchise of Roman Citizenship to all and sundry immediately. This was a period when Rome was still expanding and was at the absolute zenith of its power. It was something to be greatly aspired to – to be a Roman citizen. As Cicero wrote – the statement “Civis romanus sum” was almost a magic incantation that would allow privilege and protection under the law throughout the known world – from Britannia to Syria. What made it so attractive, and why it was aspired to by non-Romans was its legal and cultural power to transform a person into something higher than what they were….but where its power came from – thats the key. Its power came from self-belief. The morale of the Romans at that point was incredibly high. The self-confidence of the Roman Republic or Empire in the time of Augustus or Claudius was such that they had no doubt in their mind at all that Roman Citizenship, and thus Roman culture were the greatest culture on earth – and that attainment of Roman goals (even if these were based on other cultures – such as Greek), was a mark of refinemeny par excellence, simply because they believed in themselves as being the greatest people on earth.

    This self confidence can be compared more closely to the age of colonialism. The British and the French in particular wanted the conquered and subjugated “barbarians” of Empire to feel some sort of aspiration to be “civilized” and turned into British or Frenchmen by proxy. This idea lasted well into the 20th century – the first generation of immigrants to this country after the war by Indian and Pakistani families saw people coming to Britain and trying to emulate the respectable British middle class way of life. They would try and become “more British than the British”. The comedy sketch show “Goodness Gracious Me” satirised this by lampooning two Indian families who tried to adopt the cultural values of what they obviously never saw as their overlords.

    Unfortunately, as Britain’s place in the world has been lost, and our idea of what we are supposed to do now as a nation has eroded – our national morale too has been destroyed. We are assailed by people saying “we’re just another small country now like Belgium” for example – as an argument for us to renounce our sovereignty altogether. How then are we to expect immigrants to this country to proudly adopt our story? How are they to feel like winners in a nation of losers? We denigrate our own history and our own beliefs and yet expect people to feel as though they have some sort of stake in the corrupt society we have built?

    The comparison between Rome at its peak to its later years and to Britain at its Victorian peak to now goes further. As Rome broke down under corruption and instability, its people lost the idea of Rome as being the very center of the world and of all culture. Barbarians crossing the Rhine and Danube began to inherit local Roman positions of power – retaining titles and duties, but instead of carrying them out for the glory of Rome, began to seek to further instead their own influence and the influence of their particular tribe or nation rather – that they’d rather be a part of than the corrupt, fallen sick Empire they were technically a part of.

    Just as nowadays, people look at Britain and say “its not the same country it used to be – I don’t recognize it” and thus the moral tone is defeatist and resigned. Young people see this and don’t feel any alleigance to it or that they have a stake in it – we saw this in 2011 with the riots – it becomes a free-for-all as soon as law and order break down and we see it with immigrants and their children now – failing to integrate because the thing they are expected to integrate into isn’t really that great or so they feel – and isn’t even big enough or brave enough to try and tell itself (and others) that it is actually a pretty good thing.

    • The Hoxton Hockler

      Blimey.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Brilliant. Thanks for taking the time to write this.

      • Tellytubby

        Ah thanks for saying so.

    • Callipygian

      You might have made the point that the British in particular, and the Americans after them, spread ideas of freedom, accountable and rational self-government, and equality (such that, for instance, Indian men could no longer burn Indian widows with impunity). You might also note that whatever is corrupt in the Anglosphere pales to the point of being meaningless when compared with the corruption virtually everywhere else.

  • Kasperlos

    One aspect from ancien Rome that the EU should emulate is to form an army from the hundreds of thousands of fit, young fighting age males who have trekked illegally into Europe. Train them, equip them and transport them to the Middle East where they can fight to rid it of the myriad of radical extremists. After victory they can settle anew there, in their own lands from whence they came. As tribute offer them a stipend to get started. What could be more just and fair for these young males to do something for their own peoples and lands rather then staying in the West to do nothing. Consider the various nationals such as the Polish men who fled to the UK in World War II but fought on in the Polish Brigades or in the RAF. They did not flee to some high street cafe to smoke a hookah, talk on phones, and finger prayer beads all day long.

  • Alyssa

    Immigration is one of the MAJOR contributing reasons to the fall of the Roman Empire…….

    • Sue Smith

      That’s a very controversial statement and I’ve never heard this before. I’d be surprised if there was ONE single cause for the fall of the Roman Empire.

    • Fairly Educated Scot

      No, (like the British Empire) it was their unquenshing desire to expand into other people’s land, take their stuff, live in relative luxury thanks to the plunder and neglect the plebs that gradually wore down Rome until they lost their moral, financial and military superiority.

      • Franny

        no, utter rubbish – they had stopped expanding centuries earlier. indeed, they even retreated a bit, leaving dacia and parts of germany, and losing ground to the parthian juggernaught in the east. there was a 250 year period between the end of the expansion and the end of the empire. to put this into perspective, we hadn’t even fought the 7 years war (e.g. begun our real expansive period as the british empire) 250 years ago. what made the difference that the barbarian tribes became more powerful – contact with rome gave them greater political organisation and wealth, allowing their armies to become larger and more potent over time. there was also an economic crisis and a dilution of the military caused by immigration – immigrants from germany favoured longer, slashing swords and looser formations which was translated into the military system, far less effective than the bunched up earlier legions and the gladius, built for stabbing at extremely close quarters, meaning that roman legions were less effective at fighting as a unit and using their collective weight to dictate the pace. i think that they may even have abandoned the manipular system – can’t remember.

    • justin astbury

      An economic decline.. cost of keeping a large army was a big contributing factor.. pensions for an ever expanding public servants etc.. sound familiar?

  • Sue Smith

    Acculturation was the key. ABSOLUTELY.

  • msmysterygirl

    This really worked out well for Flavius Julius Valens, right?

  • sebastian2

    What did Rome do with assimilation refuseniks? I can guess the choice given to members of the defeated but spared: Do in Rome as the Romans do……….. or else.

    A Roman solution must surely have come with stern Roman conditions attached. “You have been spared death. Assimilate, but on Rome’s terms.”

    Our problem is that of unconditionality. Not “Do in Rome ……………” but “Do what you like, and assimilate, or not, as you choose.”

    The Romans would be astonished: “Incredibilis!! Omnino incredibile!”

    • Alyssa

      lol the empire fell because of them

      • sebastian2

        Well …………. I wasn’t actually there at the time but you may have a point. There appear to be strict, practical limits to how “multi” a culture can be.

        • Alyssa

          and people shouldn’t be FORCED or intimidated into being multi cultural

    • aspeckofboggart

      The English aren’t Romans. An Englishman told me 35 years ago in my first job not to emulate someone who was my boss and insisted that I’d just “be yourself”. Ruth Benedict said as much in her book on the Japanese that the English are known for this characteristic. It’s what makes them great through their up’s and down’s. Oh, and the Englishman was the boss’ boss.

  • ArtieHarris

    IMO, our politicians are giving away our country because they can profit themselves by doing so.

  • Bob Gunter

    Just one small point. The Romans didn’t have a massive welfare state entitlement program. I hardly think the sack of Rome by the Visigoths was a good advertisement for ordered integration of outsiders.

  • JamesPaulHiroda

    The article is completely misguided. These are not immigrant families, or Germans in Roman times bringing with them their families… these are Arab and African men of ages 16-30!!! eighty percent of them are male because this is a Youth Bulge. They have not been displaced by Huns!!!!

    Moreover, Rome experienced a Youth Bulge in its demographics and conquered its neighbours. It turned many into soldiers but Rome had many soldiers. We have no youth to protect our wives and daughters from this onslaught.

    Europe later experienced a Youth Bulge and conquered the world:Spanish empire, French empire, Portuguese empire, British empire and others.

    Europe today has no Youth Bulge!!!! It is the Muslim countries that experience today the Youth Bulge now increasing their populations in the past 30 years by 600 percent!

    So the Romans are the Muslims invading Europe and we are no longer the Romans!

    • JamesPaulHiroda

      Not all conflicts are the results of Youth Bulges but for example: WW1 and this invasion of Europe by Arab and African countries clearly are. The numbers of the invaders are too massive, 80 percent are young males (what do you think they want? they want your wife or daughters!) and equal or exceed the numbers of men of fighting ages in Europe. If these migrants had superior technology they would not be asking for asylum but simply coming to kills us, take our homes and women and enslave our children. We must not get confused here. As it is they will aim for all this but by more peaceful means but crime will increase massively.

  • michael buckler

    “they abandoned their homes and gods,” That would be a good start.

  • cartimandua

    The key bit was almost hidden “service in the Army”.

  • Bonkim

    Every Muslim male entering the EU is a potential warrior for Islam – and count the numbers of future warriors – the youngsters now being brought in. Europe is under existential threat and its leaders are spouting politically correct waffle. The only government standing form is the Hungarian and our support should go to them.

    The media is wailing from the heart and the UNHCR is totally useless. Firm action needed. Junk Juncker.

  • commenteer

    Didn’t turn out well for them in the end though, did it?

  • Sunshine Sux

    What a remarkably stupid comparison and article.

  • outlawState

    The Roman system only worked under the pagan conception. As long as Roman gods could be demonstrated to prevail against the gods of a lesser State, such as by burning the chief town, the inhabitants could then be prevailed to transfer allegiance to the Roman gods and so integrated. Pagan gods were of little consequence, mere symbols of State power.

    With Islam, it’s rather different. No muslim is permitted to renounce Islam. The Roman system will not work with Islam. It would have been broken, and was broken by Islam, with the whole of Roman North Africa falling to Islam in under 100 years and the Levant too. Only Christianity saved fortress Europe from collapse. In India, which had no Christianity, the entire sub-continent fell to the Islamic mughals in a short space of time.

  • Mr B J Mann

    What was the population density of Rome, and of ltaly, in Roman times, and today?

    And note that Italy could take in more than 18 MILLION “refugees” and STILL have a lower population density than the UK, never mind England!

  • drnono

    The Roman empire was soon destroyed when a huge influx of refugees which didn’t share its values and culture and could not be assimilated entered c.360-410AD. The increasing costs of providing security to it’s citizens from increasing internal and external threats needed a new political-economy – the feudal system. Europe entered the dark ages – for over 1000 years

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