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I can understand those seduced by Isis; once, it could have been me

I think I can understand the young people seduced by Isis– because once upon a time, it could have been me

25 July 2015

9:00 AM

25 July 2015

9:00 AM

One of the great moments of my student life was opening the door and seeing visitors step back, shocked. I’d shaved my hair off to an eighth of an inch. It felt like velvet but looked spiky and hard. It was all down to Ulrike Meinhof, co-founder with Andreas Baader of the Red Army Faction, who’d just hanged herself in Stammheim prison, in Germany.

My friends liked my haircut as we conflated Ulrike the martyr with images of a mullet-haired Jane Fonda raising her fist against the US army on behalf of the tortured Viet Cong. I was reminded of that haircut — and my shocked visitors — by the Prime Minister’s speech in Birmingham this week, when he said that the country needs ‘to confront a tragic truth’ that there are people born and raised here ‘who don’t really identify with Britain’.

Many of us white British middle-class students in the 1970s didn’t identify with Britain either. Our heroes were German terrorists and the IRA, men and, more excitingly, women who were fighting, or rather murdering, for freedom. If you had asked me why I was supporting urban guerrillas who’d massacred athletes at the Munich Olympics, I would have been unable to say. I never asked myself why the extreme left in West Germany didn’t just hop over the wall into the bosom of Erich Honecker, leader of the East German dictatorship waiting on the other side.

The Baader-Meinhof gang had a good excuse for being messed up; they have been termed ‘Hitler’s children’. Andreas Baader’s father returned from university on the day the students who distributed the ‘White Rose’ leaflets against Hitler were executed. Young Baader heard him say, ‘How can we stop this?’ It seemed to me that, in his violence against West Germany, Andreas was taking the correct response to his father’s failure. Photos of him with his lover, Gudrun Ensslin, a Marianne Faithfull lookalike, showed us romantic outsiders; bombing, burning and kidnapping in protest against their parents’ past crimes and current injustices. My infatuation was irrational, but no ‘counter-narrative’ from anyone in government would have persuaded me out of it.


I don’t have any children, so I lack detailed knowledge about the thoughts and aspirations of the modern teenager, but from my past I think I can understand why a large number of them choose to band together to assist the murderous Islamic State. The majority of them come from Middle Eastern countries, but about 2,300 are westerners. UK Security services say that since March this year, 600 have been British. Around 60 are teenage girls. The Prime Minister puts this down to ‘issues of identity and failures of integration’.

I think it is about deep failures of identity, but I’m not sure that the PM really understands psychology, or that the government can tackle problems of poor parenting which have nothing to do with poverty and class. You don’t have to be Muslim to be a dangerously unhappy teenager. I was adopted as a baby by very good people, but they were the last generation brought up by Victorians and mistook my sadness for ingratitude. Aged 21, hoping for a new, more successful attachment, I met my original mother. She wasn’t interested. I rang my natural grandmother, who told me, ‘Your birth was the worst thing that happened to our family.’ I was almost overwhelmed by feelings of rejection. I also had feelings of intense guilt at the pain my birth had caused.

According to John Horgan, a psychologist at the University of Massachusetts’s Centre for Terrorism and Security Studies, ‘Foreign fighters are driven to join Isis by the need to belong to something special. They want to find something meaningful for their life. Some are seeking redemption.’

Feeling I fitted in nowhere without proper closeness to my parents, I began searching for a more worthy identity. The advice ‘Just be yourself’, which I seemed to hear a lot, was terrible to my ears: I had no idea who I was. Some young people who feel displaced or suffer self-loathing take up drink, drugs and underage sex; some go into showbusiness; others, like me, take the trajectory of terrorism. What I wanted was some kind of belonging and this was most easily found in a group. This coterie had to consist of other outsiders.

For members of Isis, belonging to a group means promoting the idea of a perfect caliphate where they will entirely belong. I chose the IRA, at that time apparently taking on the British empire from their council houses in Derry, and erudite young Germans, who set about robbing banks for socialism. We were all victims together, fighting back in small battalions against crushing forces. I could see that my heroes’ actions were often vicious, but justified them because they sprang from historic injuries.

Throughout my obsession, I never took my troubles to the Troubles or left my bedroom to tote a Kalashnikov on the beach, but I did move to live in a communist dictatorship: Poland. I was quickly locked up and realised my mistake. I came home a lot more circumspect about the then pervasive Soviet propaganda. I was also saved from annihilation, although I often wanted it, because I yearned for conventional success. I wanted to be a journalist, and having a practical ambition helped to overcome my nihilism.

In 1985, 50 years after the extremist Nuremburg Laws were passed by the Nazis, I visited that city to talk to the older generation. Most were pleasantly evasive — memory loss can be useful — but one old lady still hated our RAF, accusing it of war crimes. She insisted that Hitler had known nothing about the Holocaust, which she termed ‘those things’, claiming it was all down to Himmler. I was fascinated by her visceral hatred because it gave me a true glimpse of her past life; a young girl deeply engrossed in Hitler. For whatever tortured reasons, she was still in her mental cell, seduced by dark, narcissistic violence, backing a regime dedicated to death.

Sitting in her garden chair in the pleasant care-home, she had never escaped from the terrorism of the mind, with its compulsive need for skewed thinking and denial of truth. I had, but it had taken years and some luck.

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Show comments
  • grimm

    Stefan Aust book ‘The Baader Meinhof Complex’ shows what a depressing organisation of misfits they really were. Far from being a serious revolutionary force they operated like a fanatical religious cult centred around the two ‘gurus’, Baader and Ensslin.

    In England the usual useful idiots on the far Left were, of course, ready to give them praise. I remember one particularly half-baked article in a London listings magazine (probably Time Out in its left wing days) which insisted that The Red Army Faction was not their true name. It was in fact The Red Army FRACTION. Calling them a faction was, apparently, a conspiracy to make them look like a small band of rogue terrorists rather than part of the Red Army(!) struggling to bring down Western Capitalism.

    • sidor

      One problem is that nobody of these romantic people or their opponents would be able to explain in rational terms of political economy what is capitalism that they try to bring down or defend. It was just a sporty entertainment without any comprehensible goal. These young people were irritated by the process of degradation of the German society that began after WW1. But you cannot stop a historical process by some funny escapades.

  • sidor

    It is utterly idiotic to try to understand the current global religious war within Islam in terms of European post-WW2 political movements. This war should be compared with the huge butchery of the religious wars in the 17th century Europe, when the population of Germany and related territories was reduced by factor 3. Approximately the same scale conflict is going on in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan and Libya.

    We are dealing with the phenomenon of conflict of civilisations. In order to understand a historical event of that scale, one needs to put it in the historical context. It this case one needs to know the history of the Middle East for 3000 years. Who does in the US Dept. of State?

    • blandings

      “It is utterly idiotic to try to understand the current global religious
      war within Islam in terms of European post-WW2 political movements.”

      I’m not that keen to understand it – I have more edifying matters to think about. My only concern is to ensure that it is not fought in Europe or any other nom-muslim country. That aside they can do what they like to each other.

  • Teacher

    You are not telling me that an intelligent teenager/20 something couldn’t work out for herself that killing innocent people going about their daily business for the sake of whatever self-centred cause wasn’t a horrific outrage. I could easily have been an IRA sympathiser when I was an adolescent as my mother was an Irish, RC immigrant. However, a second’s thought gave me permanent pause. I don’t buy any justification of torture, rape and murder of innocent people. These youngsters have no excuse.

  • Mow_the_Grass

    Indulged self absorbed wealthy western societies have always produced these indulged liberal (and sometimes dangerous) misfits – who see glamour in their role of ‘defending downtrodden’ (real or imagined)
    These fringe lunatics fortunately represent/have represented a tiny minority of dissafected youth – who for one reason or another usually grow out of this madness.
    The situation with the Muslim in western society who seeks to make jihad and maybe become a martyr for his prophet – is altogether another thing and a comparison between the two is a stretch at best.
    His/her enviroment is determined not by some vague cause ie Baader/Red Brigade/IRA (in this case) but by a religious belief system which narrative is the accepted norm for millions of its adherents.
    This is not a vague minority call to arms to the young and naive – this is a clarion call to all adherents young/old male/female to join a new caliphate to eventually (when the blood letting in the ME pauses) confront western civilization.
    A classic clash of civilizations – which will eventually have to be faced down/subdued/destroyed so that the world can move on from these 7th century medieval barbarians.

    • sidor

      Would you call those following Muhammed in the 7th century “fringe lunatics”? This would be a very interesting description of a fundamental civilisational phenomenon which had a huge impact on history. A leader of an obscure tribe was able to impose his civilisation on a huge territory. We need to understand the essence of that phenomenon, and the reason of its attraction. This problem is very deep and its discussion requires some education and cognitive capacity.

      • Mow_the_Grass

        Hey – i’m all ears.

        • sidor

          Try to engage what is between the ears to comprehend what was so attractive in Islam, from the beginning, that forced millions to follow. Take Jack Philby as an example of a convert.

          • Mow_the_Grass

            LOL
            I’m trying my best.
            Listen ‘pal/ette’ – might have a far more pragmatic and realistic take on the subject ie Islamic terror – considering my proximity to it here in the ME.
            What about you with the smart jibes
            Where you typing out of – some leafy little village no doubt.

          • ugly_fish
          • sidor

            Which “islamic terror” are you talking about? Sunni or shia? They are killing each other by hundreds every day.

          • Infidelissima

            THANK GOD FOR THAT!

            at least something you mussies are doing right.

          • blandings

            I think we can see what was so attractive in Islam, then, as it is now: An excuse to rape, pillage and kill – such larks!

          • sidor

            Mongols were killing and destroying much more effectively than Arabs. But they failed to create a civilisation and an empire. The same failure happened earlier with vikings who too didn’t hesitated to kill and pillage. Try to find another reason for the Arab’s success.

          • Infidelissima

            LMAO – Arabs created a CIVILIZATION??

            Which one is that? The one who is busy destroying ancient artefacts, museums and archaeological treasures, or the one who treats women like cattle, or the one who legalised marriage to 8 year old girls?

            Are you drunk?

          • sidor

            Europe couldn’t count until Fibonacci brought arithmetics from the Arabs.

          • blandings

            1) The Arabs took our numerical system from India I thought.
            All their culture was lifted from those they conquered – with the exception of camel racing.

            2)Europeans did count

          • Helen Fairgrieve

            pythagorus ? ring any bells? (along with an incalculable host of others)

          • sidor

            Pythagoras was a Phoenician by origin, and lived long time in Egypt. You shouldn’t confuse the Hellenistic civilisation with the Latin one. The latter was a scientific desert.

          • Infidelissima

            only scientific giants shoot Polio vaccinators because they fear it’s a zionist serum

          • Richard

            DNA testing has shown that the Greeks were European. The Minoans were, too.

          • Infidelissima

            Bwaahahahahah, funny stuff!

            Yeah before Arab numerals (which they stole from India) there was no geometry, architecture or even navigation astronomy, cause there were no numbers…..the pyramids were built by fairies, Rome and Athens by wood creatures and everybody just sat home, not counting.

            you mussie retards never stop with your inbred delusions, do you??

          • sidor

            Try to multiply and divide using Roman numerals. Report the result.

          • Infidelissima

            But the Romans did it!
            And the Greeks did it!
            Rome & Athens and hundreds of other metropolis’ have shown that YOU CAN multiply and divide using Roman numerals – maybe YOU can’t, cause you’re too inbred, but clearly people did!

            Did you actually notice what civilisations looked liked before 700 A.D.?
            They did have arches, temples, houses, arenas, aqueducts, ships, romans even built a canalisation system under Rome, that still functions today!

            Did you know that you *cough cough* clever mussies, have the highest rates of illiteracy on the planet, and that due to your violent inbreeding, your collective IQ points drop every couple of generations?

            Not that one wouldn’t; know just by looking at you, or reading your incoherent delusional comments..

          • And see how well the Europeans have developed. Now look at your muzzie Arab friends: they have invented NOTHING for the last 1400 years. They must be so jealous when they use planes, cars, computers, phones, medicine, modern agriculture, desalinated water, etc, etc, etc, and know not one of these inventions came from them. Hahahaaaa!

          • Richard

            Do you really believe that? And if so, why? Even if you dislike Europeans and like Arabs, how can you masquerade such an untruth? A belief based on a known untruth is a very odd thing.

          • cyrusthevirus

            Dont be monumentally stupid—-do you think the Romans managed their incredible building feats without maths ?????

          • sidor

            Try to do division using the Roman numerals. Report your experience so that the public will be able to see who is stupid.

          • Patrick Swan

            Are you 12? Maybe you didn’t get to that part in history class yet.

          • Infidelissima

            I’m not 12, but you surely went to retard-school, if they taught you that Arabs had anything to do with civilisation.

          • Fillbert

            When you do get to be 12, you might consider how foolish it is to talk about Arabs they way certain germans used to talk about Jews.

          • Infidelissima

            Jews have always contributed and ended up in gas chamber and ovens!
            What do Arab contribute besides wars, suicide attacks, school infiltration, mass rape of little girls, etc?

            To compare Jews to Arabs, is like comparing a ceramic fruit bowl, to the trainspotting toilet.
            Only a mussie would do that, because it’d flatter their backwards, useless, primitive and ignorant ideology,, as Jews do not force convert by war, believe in education and knowledge, and not child-marriage and beheadings.

          • blandings

            The Mongols did create an empire.
            I don’t think they bothered with the prophet bit though.

          • Gilbert White

            Actually it was rather amazing one, a message could get from the Med to China in less than ten days! Coleridge was certainly impressed.

          • Infidelissima

            hm, what’s attractive about Islam?

            – raping defensless women and children, trading them as slaves
            – killing infidels and stealing their homes, wives and possessions
            – having a great excuse for pedophilia
            – having an even greater excuse to inbreed
            – having superb excuses as to why muslims have the highest rates of illiteracy on the planet (for whom dislikes education)

            I can’t think of any other things that would be attractive, for potential psychotic, depraved and sick dregs of the earth.

      • Michael H Kenyon

        When Mohammed was leading a devotional, ascetic cult, he gained few followers in 15 years. When he started converting by the sword and turns apocalyptic, he conquered by murder, war, and intimidation. People, especially ignorant and brutal ones, delight in violence and overbearing dominance. They still do, as do fellow- travellers who never seem to know better The enlightenment is a weapon against might is right, and even “God’s will” too. The (ironically) bloodless tone you and other Islamist apologists take avoids addressing the issues. Stop hiding behind abstractions and detachment, and learn why we have the freedoms we have today. Also grow up: the education and cognitive capacity to understand this is present on the non-Left; it is the left and the ummah who use their intellect to abstract away the violent details and facts which perpetuate Islamic barbarity.

        • sidor

          This is ridiculous. Arabs were not that numerous and militarily capable as to conquer these vast territories by force. This cannot explain the rapid spread of their civilisation. And Islamic Spain in the Middle ages was by far the most civilised part of the Western Europe.

          • Tom M

            Interesting take. I seem to remember that it was a Muslim army that was confronted and beaten near Poitiers after progressing clockwise around the Mediterranean. There were of course others who went around the Mediterranean anti-clockwise till they were confornted at Vienna again by military force.
            You might want to remind yourself of that other lot who went off on another religious mission and were stopped, again militarily, in what is today’s Pakistan.
            That amounts to an awful lot of military capability to me.

          • ugly_fish

            I exhort everyone on this thread to read this book:

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/Did-Muhammad-Exist-Inquiry-Obscure/dp/161017061X

          • Helen Fairgrieve

            you are wrong about that – the byzantine empire at this point was corrupt and so ineffective that at this point a small pack of angry dogs could have sized the region.

          • Perplexed

            Read up the subject. Or better still stop discussing history completely.

          • Perplexed

            Yawn.
            Read the history books. They most definitely won crushing military victories. Do you by any chance work for the BBC?

          • davidshort10

            Bloody long time ago.

          • Richard

            Actually, that was earlier revisionism. The reality turns out to have been rather different. If you weren’t Muslim, you had a pretty tough time. Even the Jews who collaborated with them in Spain (Sephardic Jews) had to walk a very careful line. People were killed. It was quite a brutal mediaevalism.

      • ugly_fish
      • I’d call the followers “lunatics”.

  • sidor

    Here is one example of a Brit who happened to be a follower of radical Islam:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_John_Philby

  • Steve Larson

    The IRA’s response was a legitimate recourse to defend their country against a foreign occupying power.

    Even if you didn’t see it that way, people had little choice there with the RUC and army running wild killing people.

    Many British people honour the most brutal criminals every November, along with their normal war dead, they are also terror fans.

    Britain built its power and global reach on terror.

    • Mow_the_Grass

      So how come much of the violence in N Ireland – was Irish on Irish.
      Understand that there was a sectarian/religious element to this – but if your enemy was the Brit forces – then why as an IRA terrorist did you not target that specifically.
      btw – not British but just not a terror supporter ie IRA

      • Picquet

        Stop wittering, read the statistics in the Sutton database (CAIN project at the University of Ulster) and return when you’ve been educated.

      • Steve Larson

        The overwhelmingly majority of those killed by the IRA were enemy combatants or those involved in the running of the State.

        • Guest 1

          And the overwhelming majority of them were Irish.

          • Steve Larson

            They were still in the security forces, about 1/3 rd were from Britain itself with another 1/3rd from the UDR/RUC.

            As Churchill said ” Still, it is the primary right of men to … to punish with exceptional severity all members of their own race who have warmed their hands at the invaders’ hearth.”

          • Guest 1

            They were still Irish. Just as the Irish who were blown up, shot down, or stood in front of firing squads from 1922-23 were Irish killed by Irish. Just as the unarmed RIC shot down at Easter, 1916, along with the ‘looters’, in Dublin were Irish, while 60,000 nationalist Irishmen fought with the British Army. None of them were ‘warming their hands at the invaders’ hearth’. If we know one thing about the dreadful historical mess, it’s that none of it was straightforward or simple. And b*gger what Churchill said – he made it quite clear, for example, that there would be no investigation into collaboration on the Channel Islands during the war.

    • GUBU

      Indeed.

      Strangely enough, this ‘legitimate recourse’ involved the IRA killing more people from its own community than the RUC and British army managed whilst ‘running wild’.

      As the article suggests, every cause, however malevolent, will always have its quota of useful idiots in tow.

      Thank you for so deftly illustrating this further.

    • will91

      The IRA had a very obtainable political objective. It was never, for instance, a charter obligation of the IRA to destroy the British state or subjugate the entire population.

      Hence the IRA/Islamism parallel just doesn’t work.

    • Picquet

      You really don’t want to start an argument about this here. Mind you, most former servicemen would see you as a deranged fool, and merely ignore you.

    • Colin

      You are clearly, f@cking mental. Either that, or a depraved bell end.

    • 1__1_1

      “….a foreign occupying power…” Yes, because no Irishmen ever sat in Parliament as equals, nor were there ever any Irishmen as Ministers of State or as Prime Minister.

      Oh, hold on a sec, that complete b*llocks and so are you.

    • RufusChoate

      I am an American and Catholic whose family fled Ireland in the 1860’s for Fenian inclinations but realized sometime ago that the Provisional IRA was a terrorist cadre uninterested in actual success. They were a mix of totalitarian Leftists thugs and feral criminals who engaged violence for profit. In that sense they are indistinguishable from ISIS.

      Britain is not sinless but in the case of the Provisional IRA. They were more sinned against than sinning.

      • Steve Larson

        So you haven’t an idea of history or politics bar what happened to your ancestors 150 years ago.

  • Infidelissima

    Duh – ISIS are the New Nazis, just like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, AL Shabaab, Boko Haram, Hiztub Tahrir, Muslim Brotherhood, PLO, and the other 100+ muslim terrorist organisations.
    It’s the ideology that needs to be either destroyed, or violently confined to their own pits.

    p.s.: since most teenagers do not join groups that murder innocent people, I assume you must be part of that ‘small minority’ of heavily inbred psychotic mutants, or just a humanly inferior and cerebrally underdeveloped dreg of humanity that is prominently featured in the news today

  • jim

    Here’s the truth:you were ,(and for all I know still are) a narcissistic brat , angry with your parents, working out the tediously oh so familiar “daddy issues” which always come with spoiled over educated under-smart suburban types who seek refuge from the real world in drivelling sociology courses where they can empower themselves by shagging the lecturer while dad works on his first heart attack trying to pay the school fees. I’ll bet you thought Bono was a philosopher. I’ll bet you rate Chomsky. I’ll bet you were a boycotter and a blacklister and today you’re probably a fully paid up member of the twitter gaystapo trying to get people fired for “incorrect thinking”. In short ,you are poison. The sooner we realise that fifth columnists like you are the cause of all our woes,the sooner we can start taking back our country.

    • Infidelissima

      well said

    • pyewacket

      Flippin eck mate!

    • Melocanayaya

      “the cause of all our woes”? Speak for yourself. Or better yet, don’t speak at all.

      My woes could do without your indignant hissy fit.

      • jim

        “…don’t speak at all..” You’d like that wouldn’t you ? The left and their “daddy issues”!!.You spend a lifetime getting even with dad by signing up for any dingbat cause which places it self in opposition to the straight white male establishment. Doesn’t matter what the cause is,just so long as it annoys dad.Hence Harry Harperson making political alliances with pedos,feminist harpies banging on about islamaphobia,or feminazis allying themselves with gay men to protest about gender discrimination in the workplace when so many of the jobs women really covet are the preserve of a gay male mafia. You lot are a joke. …

      • Infidelissima

        you forgot: “waaa waaa a waacist, a WAACIST!”

      • “Or better yet, don’t speak at all.” …. yeah another typical socialist reply … how tolerant you are.

    • Feminister

      Says the internet comment hobbyist.

      • jim

        I’m guessing you’re single….right?

        • Infidelissima

          even her cat ran away

          • Frank Marker

            She hovers overhead like some Heinkel bomber ready to dump her load over us and I don’t mean bombs either.

    • John Thomas

      Probably she was/is the things you say – but how would you or I cope with being told ‘Your birth was the worst thing that happened to our family.’ ?

      • jim

        Let’s not have competing sob stories here.This isn’t The Guardian and I don’t buy the “abuse excuse”. Even if I did buy it, I don’t see how that changes anything.It doesn’t make these people less dangerous.You might feel sorry for an abuse victim but when he becomes an abuser you’ve got to stop him. Too much empathy these days in our feminized culture. To quote Conan:

        “Crush your enemies. See them driven before you. Hear the lamentations of their women.”

        • Simon Morgan

          Sure that was Conan the Barbarian? Sounded more like the Prophet to me!

    • AJ

      As a former soldier who served in NI and have seen people literally shredded by bombs and bullets, people like you make me sick, you’re a traitor, your piece wasn’t even worth reading, the first two lines were enough.

      • jim

        You clown.The author of this piece was the one cheer leading the bombers…and I’m guessing the NI plug is BS. The guys I know aren’t so chatty about those things.

    • Bertie

      Well said that man.

      Succinct sumnation. Spot on too boot.

  • William_Brown

    Interesting, but flawed.

    Many of us saw ourselves as disenfranchised teenagers, identifying with odd causes – (I used to sell the Socialist Worker between the ages of 16 – 18 forgoodnessakes)! I, like many teenagers, was convinced that I must’ve been adopted, or there had been a cruel mix up at the maternity unit, as far as my relationship and identification with my parents (and their generation) was concerned. But there’s the rub – these kids are not really rebelling against their parents, or many of the grown-ups that they encounter at the Mosque – they are doing quite the opposite.

    We in the west need to understand that unless we insist and encourage Islamic integration into western society and culture – (which, incidentally, I’m not convinced is realistically possible), we will always have this issue. We, in our western, ‘civilised’ way, will always look for excuses and reasons for the incomprehensible behaviour of ISIL and its sympathisers, but the fact is, we are not comparing like for like. The mantra that my generation were brought up on; that all cultures and civilisations are equal, is fatally flawed and until we embrace this uncomfortable truth, there is little chance of any improvement.

    • jim

      Do you really want to integrate with islam?.I don’t.

      • William_Brown

        Like I said; I don’t think it realistically possible.

      • Brogan75

        Problem is, they don’t want either.

    • blandings

      I was only interested in sex and drugs and rock ‘n’ roll.
      I was the well – balanced one

      • William_Brown

        Oh, I did all that too 🙂

        • blandings

          Yeah but were you concentrating?

    • Zaba

      the incomprehensible behaviour of ISIL and its sympathizers

      Clear as day, in the koran

  • Chris

    The phrase notable by its absence from this self-indulgent waffle: ‘radical chic’.

    • Perplexed

      Hear, hear. Difficult to think of a more irrelevant or misleading discussion of the Isil problem. Not least because many of the Muslim kids going out to Syria seem to have been pleasant conformist types rather than middle class rebels.

  • Monkish

    All the answers are to be found in Philip Roth’s beautiful novel “American Pastoral.”

  • /O43 |_|K19!!

    Execute the parents.

  • Muttley

    Blimey. I have known people from the most horrendous backgrounds with parents who weren’t even “good people,” but they would never for a moment have entertained the idea that the way to right the wrongs society had done them was to take out a few innocent people.

    Stop making excuses for yourself and for people who leave Britain to join ISIS. You were all privileged to be brought in one of the best places on earth to live and get an education, despite its many flaws. Contemplating acts of terror and worshipping terrorists is pure self-indulgent stupidity. Joining them is pure, unadulterated evil.

    • Frank Marker

      Well said Muttley.

  • TonyB58

    Would we even be having this debate about “understanding” recruits to ISIS (sorry So-called Islamic State) if the organisation was an extreme, white supremacist organisation? No excuses for signing up to pure evil.

  • Mark

    Funny to read this, I too was a teenage radical born of parents who had either fought in the war or kept the home fires burning.

    I learned about the holocaust, the French resistance, the rottenness at the core of totalitarianism in bothe its Nazi and Soviet varieties.

    When I came to spread my wings it was off to a kibbutz I went, I wanted to live in a socialist commune with other consenting adults, rather than an oppressed Soviet satellite. I went a second time, this time nearer the Lebanese border and so on several occasions was on the receiving end of the trendiest cause on earth at the time. Katyusha rockets, hang gliders even a hot air balloon were used by them to try to get at us.

    It taught me a lot, sharing a reinforced bunker with holocaust survivors. A lesson never forgotten. The main one being pick your side with care.

    Bad causes are always anti Semitic at heart. That includes the fascist left, whose double standards take the breath away. Baader meinhof, Japanese Red army, Brigate rossa, the IRA and their Arab friends re created the wartime axis as tragedy (for their victims) and farce (in their pretensions).

    I’ll never forget the look on the faces of “comrades” at party meetings when they learned that when I said I had lived a socialist life I meant that I had been a kibbutz volunteer.
    I soon stopped attending.

  • 1__1_1

    I cannot understand those seduced by Isis; once, it could not have been me as I have no desire to slit the throats of Muslims belonging to the wrong sect; nor do I have the desire to force people into sex slavery.

    It’s high time we stopped making excuses for people and started expecting people to take some responsibility for their actions.

    • Richard

      That goes directly against what the Left preaches.

    • Gabriel

      You also need to research who a lot of these ISIS idiots are. They are the worst of the worst violent criminals that Saudi Arabia released, armed to the teeth, cried ‘Holy Jihad’ into their ear for a few hours then pointed to Syria…
      The whole ISIS show is a Western-controlled, Saudi and Israel-backed assault on the Middle East to create death, destruction and a flood of refugees into the West to destabilise our countries and economies to herald the collapse of the nation-states into the New World Order.
      Remember,… “When we’re successful, and we will be…” (Daddy Bush)

  • RufusChoate

    The really fun part of this puerile revolutionary angst in affluent middle class twits is if you have the misfortune of actually participating in one of these “movement” you will end badly. Invariably the people who end up running the: revolution, state, collective or cult are murderous sociopaths who put you up against wall at the first opportunity once you’ve served your purpose. True believers are the worse but dimwitted kids are a close second.

    Islam is different because they are all murderous sociopaths if given the opportunity.

  • MacGuffin

    “The majority of them come from Middle Eastern countries, but about 2,300 are westerners. UK Security services say that since March this year, 600 have been British. ”

    Westerners? British? Really? I doubt very much if these people pass any kind of meaningful standard of western-ness or British-ness.

    • Perplexed

      Isn’t it about time than we started talking about Bangladeshi-British, Somali-British, and Pakistani-British, just as we talk about Greek-Americans, African-Americans, and Swedish-Americans? What’s the problem in doing that?

      • Mark

        Why? Because it’s silly. Like calling people Scottish-English or Welsh-Irish.

        The purpose is to deny the existence of national characteristics, to reduce the notion of nationality to a government granted piece of paper rather than an inheritance.

    • marxistgulag

      Did you here the joke about being on the wrong side in ww1 and ww2,its not funny.brainwashing is not funny.

  • Richard

    As somebody who grew up as a minority white person in Africa, it has always fascinated me that it is only white people who seem to embrace politics that will weaken and destroy them, in the name of ideology. A prime example of this is mass immigration, for instance. In the case of ISIS, as with all political movements in populations other than white, it is a case of the old saying, Blood is Thicker than Water. Ethnic minorities retain a very strong bond with their countries of origin, as we see from the huge incidence of female genital mutilation, going home to bring back spouses, etc. Supporting, say, other Middle Easterners or Pakistanis or whoever your ethnic group is, is so much more visceral than being conjoined with a nationality by virtue of a law or two. Laws are subject to change anyway, whereas your genes were formed over millennia. It is all as Kipling wrote in “The Gods of the Copybook Headings”.

    In Africa, it is a given that you will act in the interests of your tribe. Laws to satisfy the West are passed, but ignored. You have a descending hierarchy of allegiances, and those “allegiances” that are based on constitution or notions of “equality” are meaningless and ignored. Witness the recent incident of South Africa going against legal undertakings to the ICC and allowing (a fellow-African) to fly home to Sudan. Had it been, say, another black African who had asked for him to be arrested, you would probably have found them complying, because the Arab Sudanese is further removed by blood than a fellow Bantu-speaker.

    This simple fact is why the West will disappear fairly soon, and other nations and peoples will long outlive them. Blood Is Thicker Than Water.

  • davidshort10

    did not read this. Knew it was just an opp for an ancient contrib of the md to get a few quid.

  • global city

    eighth of an inch….freckin xenophobe!

  • Kasperlos

    Valid points made. Youth lacks wisdom that comes with age. That said, we have lived in an era long enough where all in Britain have access to basic knowledge. Knowledge about the glories of British civilisation, the beauty of the Western Judeo-Christian tradition, the magnificent ascent of these islands and its remarkable peoples. With communication and information technology there’s the ability to see what the wider world offers. Everyone can juxtapose our civilisation with, say, the horrendous era of Stalinism (no paradise that). There has been an almost complete lack of parenting, of traditional values of educating our young, of teaching them, guiding them, and cheering them on, to give them attention to their natural inquisitiveness. Sadly, to a great degree the native inhabitants have left the Judeo-Christian realm to a reversion mean of Paganism. This whilst migrant Saracens, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and Buddhists arriving on Britain’s doorstep, as we see, keep their ultra orthodox religious practises. And in their newfound home some of these groups flourish academically and professionally. Why is that? It’s right under our noses: Not having a more humble appreciation for the toil of our forefathers in creating great British traditions has been nothing less than a catastrophe. Some migrants entering the UK seem to value some of the British values, the chance to succeed is certainly one of them. Running off in search of ‘something’ better, more adventurous has always been part of the youthful urge, but with the globe having become so small is it not even more the instance where one would value what one has at home, and to defend it – as did the countless honourable men of 1914 and 1939 – against the existential peril that is ISIL. If that doesn’t give a sense of belonging, then what can.

  • antoinettewreeves

    Quality Of performance ssppeect…. <…. Find Here

  • Maureen Fisher

    You are talking about a completely different kettle of fish. Men joining Isis will be killed and women joining Isis will be raped. Slightly different from the comfort zone of for the most part armchair Marxists in the West. Though the author did go to Poland and did time in prison – still nothing akin to joining the Isis death cult.

  • davidshort10

    The people who have gone over to Isis from the UK are not ‘British’. They just happen to have British passports. A lot of them must be drawn by the chance to murder and rape at will. A lot better than signing on the dole in the East End. They are not the same as 70s middle class university student dreamers, not at all.

    • Agreed, I wish I could vote you up 100 times.

  • sidor

    Jane, you don’t. You are discussing something beyond your comprehension. There were no foreigners in IRA: it was just a local ethnic conflict, one of many. The current events in the Middle East are a part of global religious war within Islam. This is a fundamental conflict of civilisations. Comparing it with the conflict in N. Ireland is like comparing WWII with the drunk fight in a local pub.

  • Fasdunkle

    IS aren’t murdering for freedom, they are murdering for the removal of any freedom

  • Malcolm Stevas

    As a teenager, your enthusiasms and infatuations were meaningless: young people think largely with their stomachs and their gonads, not their brains. A great many of us (possibly the great majority, I don’t know) had strange romantic ideas about this or that movement, party, set of events and so on, which as we matured we came to realise were unwise to say the least. It’s called growing up. The IRA? Vicious gangsters with a specious veneer of political idealism to deceive the credulous – and the young.

  • The Masked Marvel

    Shorter version: It’s nowt to do with Islam. As usual.

  • Dan O’Connor
  • Dan O’Connor

    White middle / upper class cosmopolitan Leftists / Liberals / Progressives
    ( CultMarxian usefull idiots ) are like mice who have been born with an affection for cats.
    They are the only group in human history who have strived to make their own group economically, culturally, politically, territorially and demographically weaker.
    The nature of this historical anomily alone must lead anyone who still retains the ability of independent thought to recognise it for what it is –a deliberately inserted collective psychosis introduced like a bacilli into the body politic of Western man.

  • Dan O’Connor

    I love it when Lefty commentators attempt to invoke the Northern Irish troubles as proof that Muslims are no more prone to violent conflict than Europeans are , without realising that they are arguing against themselves, until I respond with ..

    ” Yup, the perils of ancestral, historical, cultural, and religious diversity ..eh ? “

    • sidor

      If anyone is interested in examples of European religious cruelty. The population on the territory of Germany was reduced by factor 3 as a result of the 30-years war. We still remember WWII when millions in Europe were killed because of their religion.

      • Dan O’Connor

        Nobody is more aware of that than the movement I belong to.
        But I am not a Christian, so why are you telling me this ?
        Are you using this to morally justify giving an alien , hostile and rival culture like Islam a demographic beachhead in Europe ?
        Having a selective memory you remember the millions in WW2 who were killed because of their tribal identity but you have forgotten the crimes of the Bolshevik goverment that comprised 80 % ethnic Jews , was financed and imported from New York and that exterminated between 20 to 30 million Christian Slavs in the name of equality, social progress and love for humanity .
        You may not have noticed that unlike White liberals, Muslims do not run around weeping and sobbing about the people they have conquered, enslaved, colonised or the 200 million victims they left in their wake.
        There are no good guys ( saints ) in this story . European man is no more and no less capable of any particular level of cruelties than any other race or civilzation.
        What is your ethnic background ?

        • sidor

          Your lecture on Russian history is particularly entertaining. Your personal experience? Or private communication?

          • Dan O’Connor

            Your lecture on European history is particularly entertaining .
            Your personal experience ? Or private communication ?
            See , I can play that game as well .
            I fall for it everytime. Your tribe don’t want to debate in the free market place of ideas on a level playing field , do you ?
            You being self ordained as being synonimous with virtue itself are not required to engage in philisophical sportsmanship , right ? Just the usual sly smug sneering innuendo
            I still don’t get the point you were trying to make in your first post.
            So the history of mankind is the history of human conflict all over the planet for tens of thousands of years…and ..?

          • sidor

            I am interested in facts, not in “philisophical sportsmanship”. What is your source about Russia?

          • Dan O’Connor

            Oh I get it . This is an interrogation and you are the one asking the questions.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “They’re hanging men and women
    For the wearing of the Green”

  • Dan O’Connor

    The IRA and the Irish political establishment is busy rubbing the face of the Irish in die-versity and transforming the Irish into a future electoral minority and Ireland into a third world cess pit.

  • kingkevin3

    What a heap of old cobblers. How even the dozziest teenage bint can mix up the IRA and the RAF is bizarre. The RAF numbered, at most , at anyone time, 10-20 active members. They of course, were complete sociopaths and the group existed for no more than around 7 years. Well we know the IRA is a completely different beast. Then to extrapolate to the present and empathise with retards who have some sympathies with ISIS suggests the authoress still has some lingering psychological issues. No one, not even the most troubled teenager, can see anything positive in ISIS. You may disagree with the IRA tactics , and I mostly certainly never identified with them, although 3/4 of my family are Irish. In fact I find the modern IRA repulsive. But historically their forefathers, like Casement and others, did fight out of principle and were courageous men. To link these people with ISIS is something only a dim Bint could possible do.

    • Clive

      Sociopaths ? That is one of those words now being adopted by psychology because psychologists believe they know how people should be. They don’t.

      In fact sociopathy – as defined by DSM5 – is not really a psychological condition at all. It’s just a description of someone who does not fit in too well. Here is a description from the Huffington Post drawn from DSM5. Note, by the way, that sociopathy is believed to be entirely a ‘nurture’ based condition unlike psychopathy which is nature based.

      Sociopathic Personality Disorder

      – Prone to nervousness, distress and temper meltdowns, not easily calm and suave like the psychopath

      – Usually not well-educated, often non-gainfully employed, the drifter type, the one whom everyone sees as “troubled” or “disturbed.”

      – Their crimes typically are sloppy rather than meticulously premeditated and planned.

      – Capable of emotional bonds with others, but this is difficult to achieve.

      – Despite the capability of emotional attachments, they disregard social mores as a whole.

      So they’re really not particularly nice people. So what ? I remember that the USSR used to put dissidents in mental institutions and I thought it was just to discredit them. That may have been true but I read later that the justification was that if you were a dissident from a society as good as the USSR then you must be mentally unsound

      Surely that’s what ‘sociopaths’ are – and we are all sociopaths sometimes.

  • Chingford Man

    “Many of us white British middle-class students in the 1970s didn’t identify with Britain either. Our heroes were German terrorists and the IRA, men and, more excitingly, women who were fighting, or rather murdering, for freedom.”

    You must have been reasonably intelligent to be a student in the 1970s so how on earth could you have been in any doubt about the depravity of the IRA? Did you watch the pictures of Bloody Friday when scattered bits of humanity were shovelled into bin bags? Did you know what a bomb that explodes inside an enclosed space does to people?

    Stop making excuses for your immorality as a young person.

    • Dan O’Connor

      For the 60’s quarter educated and spoilt rotten baby boomer cult of permanent intellectual adolescence that took its march through all of the West’s cultural institutions, taking the side of the the ” Other ” against your own by knee jerk reflext at every available opportunity was interpreted as being ” different ”
      ” not ordinary ” and therefore proof of one’s cultural sophistication , revolutionary outlook, intellectual superiority and being modern and morally superior. The Western version of the Soviet New World Man.
      It meant feeling as if one was a member of a select group of people who were destined by some act of historical or evolutionary inevitability to heroically bring about the fall of the evil West and usher in the happy clappy rainbow nation brotherhood of man utopia
      It was all shallow naive fakery and hype and nothing else

      • Malcolm Stevas

        Careful with those generalisations: I’m of the same generation and never for one minute engaged in the bizarre Leftist extremism you rightly criticise. Neither did the majority of others of the same age, who were working as plumbers, bakers, candlestick makers, or studying to be accountants, engineers, teachers… The placard-waving loons sympathising with terrorism had a high profile, but were hardly representative of an entire generation or of the “baby boom” years in general.

        • Mc

          Yes, it usually requires a critical mass of a murderous / brutish minority to intimidate the majority into getting their way. One sees similar dynamics of dominance at play in virtually every social grouping.

    • Mc

      I don’t think the journalist was very good at putting across the point that both she and the Islamists were / are drawn to murderous groups because their sense of humanity is overridden by their own messed up mindset. That isn’t an excuse for such behaviour – simply pointing out that that there are a lot of people who have no inherent ethical boundaries.

  • “Many of us white British middle-class students in the 1970s didn’t identify with Britain either. Our heroes were German terrorists and the IRA, men and, more excitingly, women who were fighting, or rather murdering, for freedom.”

    Comrade Jane Kelly doesn’t mention she and the “many” (read: ‘many’ is Marxist dialectics for ‘few’) white middle class friends she associated with are Marxists! Since the IRA and other Western terrorist groups existed in the West, therefore they were front groups operated by the West’s Marxist co-opted intelligence services, as is the Marxist front group Islamic [sic] State…

    Approximately 20% of the Marxist front group Islamic [sic] State are Ukraine Ground Forces (UGF) posing as Islamic [sic] State, the UGF mission in Iraq being to cut Iraq’s oil exports–once American ground forces return to Iraq–for the purpose of assisting Russia’s oil based economy, thereby allowing Russia to complete her military modernization program. The Marxist governments of the West and Marxist media* are spinning the reality of what’s taking place in the Ukraine and Iraq, where in the Ukraine the anti-Communist Ukrainian people are waging a war against the Marxist Kiev government and mis-named “Ukrainian separatists” who are really Russian Spetsnaz/Guards Airborne troops assisting the Marxist Kiev government suppress the anti-Communist revolution raging throughout the Ukraine. The revolution could only have occurred thanks to the weakened security apparatus within the Ukraine, where a critical number of Ukraine Ground Forces are currently in Iraq preparing to assist Russia’s oil based economy by destroying Iraq’s oil production.

    With the weakened Marxist security throughout the Ukraine, due to the UGF presence in Iraq, the Ukrainian population destroyed, to date, over 700 statues to the reviled Vladimir Lenin, and other Marxist “heroes”, statues that were supposed to have been destroyed in 1991 if the collapse of the USSR were real and not the strategic ruse it is. Currently approximately 1,400 statues to the butcher of Ukrainian nationalism/Orthodoxy remain standing throughout the Ukraine, rubbing salt into the wounds of every non-Marxist Ukrainian (95% of the population) that is forced to view such monuments to the infamous butcher.

    Russian regular forces are also in the eastern Ukraine (attired in UGF uniforms) fighting the Ukrainian freedom fighters, losing to combat operations approximately 25,000 soldiers, which is why on January 2 Vladimir Putin was ordered by his superiors in the Russian Communist Party to sign a four-year old piece of legislation that allows foreigners who speak Russian to join the Russian military…

    http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-foreigners-serving-in-military/26779601.html

    The following is a discovery I made last month regarding the fake collapse of the USSR…

    When Soviet citizens were liberated from 74 years of Marxist oppression on December 26, 1991 there were ZERO celebrations throughout the USSR, proving (1) the “collapse” of the USSR was a strategic ruse; and (2) the political parties of the West were already co-opted by Marxists, otherwise the USSR (and East Bloc nations) couldn’t have gotten away with the ruse.

    ZERO celebrations, as the The Atlantic article inadvertently informs us…

    http://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/12/20-years-since-the-fall-of-the-soviet-union/100214/

    For more on this discovery see my blog…

    https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/

    Conclusion:

    The West will form new political parties where candidates are vetted for Marxist ideology, the use of the polygraph to be an important tool for such vetting. Then the West can finally liberate the globe of vanguard Communism.

    ————————-

    *The failed socialist inspired and controlled pan-European revolutions that swept the continent in 1848 thought Marxists and socialists a powerful lesson, that lesson being they couldn’t win overtly, so they adopted the tactic of infiltration of the West’s political parties/institutions. In the case of the United States…(continue reading at DNotice)…

    https://sites.google.com/site/deanjackson60/now-you-see-me-now-you-don-t

    Now you know why not one political party in the West requested verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the “alternative” media. When determining whether the “former” USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the “former” USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    The fraudulent “collapse” of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Marxists, which explains why verification of the “collapse” was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    It gets worse–the “freed” Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested/de-mobilized the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!

    There can be no collapse of the USSR (or East Bloc nations) without…

    Verification, De-Communization and De-mobilization.

    The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.

    The above means that the so-called “War on Terror” is an operation being carried out by the Marxist co-opted governments of the West in alliance with the USSR and other Communist nations, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending “War on Terror”; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union “From the Atlantic to Vladivostok”; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    Now you know how Bolshevik Russia survived in 1917; how the West “lost” China to the Communists in 1949; why the Eisenhower administration turned a deaf ear to the anti-Communist Hungarian uprising in 1956; why the Eisenhower administration in 1959 was indifferent to the Castro brothers’ Communist fidelity, actually used the CIA to overthrow the Batista government; why the Nixon administration abandoned Taiwan for Communist China, and signed treaties/provided economic aid to the USSR; why the Nixon administration refused to tell the American People that over 50% of North Vietnamese NVA regiments were actually Chinese People’s Liberation Army soldiers (attired in NVA uniforms, and proving that the Sino/Soviet Split was a ruse, as KGB defector Major Anatoliy Golitsyn told the West back in 1962), thereby (1) ensuring the Vietnam War would be lost; (2) destroying the prominence of the United States abroad and at home; (3) breeding distrust between the American people and their government; and (4) securing Communist victories in Southeast Asia. Working in the background within the political parties of the United States and Great Britain were Marxist agents doing their best to (1) ensure the survival of Communist nations when they popped up; and (2) sabotage any policies that would bring down a Communist nation. That’s why after the fake collapses of the East Bloc nations and USSR there was no mandatory Western verification process to ensure the Communists weren’t still in control.

    • Malcolm Stevas

      Wow… When you engage in conspiracy theory, you don’t do things by halves.

      • “Wow… When you engage in conspiracy theory, you don’t do things by halves.”

        Where did I engage in “theory”? Everything I mentioned is fact.

        Fact: The Republican Party in the United States was founded in 1854 by a coalition of Marxists and Lincoln abolitionists.

        Fact: The World War I Allies refused to overthrow Lenin and Bolsheviks, even though Lenin took Russia out of the war, critically weakening the Allies’ war effort!

        Fact: When Lenin and Bolsheviks overthrew the Provisional government, the next day the Russian Imperial Army dissolved itself!

        Fact: Not one Communist nation was liberated by the West!

        Fact: The West didn’t VERIFY the collapse of the USSR!

        Fact: The Soviet Military officer corps was never de-Communized!

        Fact: The vigilantes that assisted in controlling the Soviet populations are still in place!

        Fact: The post Soviet Union was supposed to have joined NATO, where NATO military officers would assist in de-Communizing the Soviet Armed Forces.

        Fact: The religious denominations behind the Iron Curtain were never purged of their KGB agent clergy, including the KGB agent clergy leaderships!

        Fact: American military forces were fighting mostly Chinese soldiers in the Vietnam War!

        How is it you’re still clueless to what the above FACTS informs us about the Marxist co-option if the West?

        • Malcolm Stevas

          Haven’t we been here before? You’re that bloke who believes he has access to all manner of “facts” that seem unavaliable to the rest of us, or which the majority dispute; or perhaps you’re that guy I saw in the High Street a few days ago preaching and ranting about something improbable…
          Haven’t you got a job? I have lots of work to do, must get on with it…

          • “You’re that bloke who believes he has access to all manner of “facts” that seem unavaliable to the rest of us…”

            How are they unavailable when I present them?

          • Malcolm Stevas

            Lovely stuff – you’re a bit off your head, aren’t you…

          • “Lovely stuff – you’re a bit off your head, aren’t you…”

            Ah, a Marxist operative attempting the usual abysmal damage control. One can always tell, because only an imbecile (God bless) would be unable to comprehend what my observations prove.

    • BetrayedRosse

      Mr C&P is back

      • “Mr C&P is back”

        An Irish man on the pulse of the Marxist co-option of the West can’t resist the temptation to save the British! Since the British united Ireland (not always nicely, but nation building isn’t an intrinsically kind venture), I feel obliged to return a kind favor!

    • Mc

      How ever noble or not your cause, keep in mind that it is plain rude to go and paste a gargantuan comment below a article – but somehow I don’t think trying to appeal to your sense of politeness will be sufficient to reign in your unhinged urges.

      • “How ever noble or not your cause, keep in mind that it is plain rude to go and paste a gargantuan comment below a article – but somehow I don’t think trying to appeal to your sense of politeness will be sufficient to reign in your unhinged urges.”

        For those not conversant in Marxist dialectics, allow me to translate Mc’s concern…

        Mc is horrified that the 167 year Marxist subterfuge of the West has been thrown into full light, hence the new etiquette where comments be kept as brief as possible. Note that Mc isn’t shocked by the following observations…

        ‘The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.’

        …and…

        ‘It gets worse–the “freed” Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested/de-mobilized the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!’

        …and…

        ‘When Soviet citizens were liberated from 74 years of Marxist oppression on December 26, 1991 there were ZERO celebrations throughout the USSR, proving (1) the “collapse” of the USSR was a strategic ruse; and (2) the political parties of the West were already co-opted by Marxists, otherwise the USSR (and East Bloc nations) couldn’t have gotten away with the ruse.’

        But Mc is shocked by the length of my comment! What does that tell you?

  • Vickitweaver

    Going Back bblloo google Online Work

  • BetrayedRosse

    You utterly stupid person.

  • Patrick Roy

    PROOF that 16 year olds should not vote…

  • cartimandua

    I remember the terrified face of a young hostage being driven off by BM who then shot her.
    You are a tool now and you always were madam. BM was bad enough. Daesh are known to enjoy beheading and their latest wheeze blowing up live babies to practice
    bomb booby traps.
    And that shrink is a fool.
    Muslims produce insecure attachments because of the way women are treated. They produce more brain damage because of covering and Ramadan.
    The Dutch found more psychopathy after famine in WW2.
    Islam creates more people “vulnerable” to being conned by serial killers by proxy.
    Was the author every stupid and self hating enough to want to die? I don’t think so.

  • Paul Moylan

    The false narrative that their terrorism is just like any other western terrorism, because we are all the same really. Bullshlt. For a start take your example, the IRA; Means and motivation were, targeting the state and representations thereof and they were a separatist group/politically driven respectively.
    There were no Irish Catholics targeting civilians in the name of Jesus.

    Now take Middle Eastern terrorism means and motivation, targeting civilians/non-combatants/women/children and religiously driven. These are not idiosyncratic differences. Western civilization at their worst look upon non-combatants with indifference, at worst. These newcomers look at them as targets. Exceptions to this rule are sources of shame to all white Western people, holocaust etc. the likewise is not true. How many Turks are sorry for the Armenian genocide. how many Iraqi Muslims want to protect the Yazidi’s. not many if any. Most are driven by selfish goals.

  • luciddreamer1

    Jane, your youthful idealism (like mine) was very different. We managed to overlook our idols’ violence, whereas violence is what attracts recruits to Islamic State. Look at its advertising videos on youtube. Would you have been enticed by the chance to torture children or hack prisoners’ heads off?

    We fell for “romantic outsiders”, seeing them as oppressed but heroic. By contrast, Islamic State offers the chance to join a dictatorship that rules by terror. Women left England to join a sharia police force that lets them whip and terrorise other women. Men own slaves and enjoy the right to rape children. They make the craziest political extremists I used to know look angelic!

  • Sun

    The Ooooooooh they’re disenfranchised teenagers. I was teenager. I didn’t fit in. Yet, I didn’t pick up a ak-47 and join some Jihad. Why do you think that is Left wing trash?

  • Mr.Johnson Brown

    100% POWERFUL AND GENUINE SPELL CASTER,My name is Mr.Johnson from France and I am a 59 years old man. I was married to Mrs.Helen Baines Johnson and I’m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she didn’t love me anymore.So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife.So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.{salvationlovetemple@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who didn’t call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to “bringing your ex back. So thanks to the Dr Sam for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again. salvationlovetemple@gmail.com, Thanks..

  • Mr.Johnson Brown

    100% POWERFUL AND GENUINE SPELL CASTER,My name is Mr.Johnson from France and I am a 59 years old man. I was married to Mrs.Helen Baines Johnson and I’m happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she didn’t love me anymore.So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife.So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.{salvationlovetemple@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who didn’t call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to “bringing your ex back. So thanks to the Dr Sam for bringing back my wife,and brought great joy to my family once again. salvationlovetemple@gmail.com, Thanks..

  • newname

    So because some young people are mixed up and finding themselves, the rest of the world has to suffer the fear of terrorist acts, the inconvenience of anti-terrorism measures and the loss of freedom such measures entail. Reading this makes me think that all adolescents should simply be locked up until they can demonstrate they are free of such ideas.

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