James Delingpole

The Islamic sermon that taught me what’s happened to Birmingham

Discovering a parallel culture in my old home town

8 November 2014

9:00 AM

8 November 2014

9:00 AM

Birmingham has changed a bit since I grew up there in the 1970s. Back then, the stories of the hour were the usual industrial unrest at Longbridge, the IRA bombs in the Tavern in the Town and the Mulberry Bush, and the ongoing success of local lads Slade, Wizzard and ELO. Today, though, it’s mainly stuff like Operation Trojan Horse, and I barely recognise the place or the culture at all.

So when, driving back from the Conservative party conference the other week, I found the radio button that normally takes me to Radio 4 mysteriously tuning instead to a local Islamic station, I thought I’d do a bit of homework and listen to the sermon it was playing. I’d never heard an Islamic sermon before. Nor probably have you. But if you want to understand what’s been happening in inner-city Britain these last few decades, I recommend you do. It will give you an insight as to why there’s a parallel culture developing which has little or no interest in integrating with the one most of the rest of us inhabit.

You know how, in C of E sermons, the vicar is at pains to make his sermons as locally relevant and as secular as possible? Well, Islamic sermons are the exact opposite of that. Though this one had been recorded in a Cape Town mosque it could have come from anywhere in the ummah, from Islamabad to Jeddah to Luton. The preacher would illustrate his points by regularly breaking into fluent, chanted excerpts from the Koran or the Hadith, and he spoke with the absolute conviction of a man who is relaying directly the word of God to the ignorant masses.

His theme was ‘Din’: the correct way in which all good Muslims should live their lives. Whether you are rich or poor, the preacher told us, it is imperative that you should accept your lot because this is what Allah intended for you. There is no point grumbling that the rich are undeserving because, unlike Allah, you do not have the full information. The preacher explained that Allah chose them to be rich for a reason, which we lack the divine wisdom to understand.


As I listened to this uncompromising message, two thoughts struck me. The first was: ‘Is it any wonder that Islamic countries  perform so poorly in the economic league tables when their religious leaders seek to destroy the single quality most likely to encourage economic growth: aspiration?’

And the second was: how desperately pre-medieval it was. At the time, by coincidence, I’d been stuck into the 12th-century chapter of Ian Mortimer’s excellent new history book Centuries of Change, and been reading about Peter Abelard.

Abelard is best remembered today as the monk who was barbarously castrated as a punishment for having impregnated Heloise, the niece of one of his fellow canons at Notre Dame cathedral. But his most lasting influence was as the rock-star intellectual who kicked off the medieval renaissance by questioning the absolute authority of the church and effectively inventing secular inquiry and rationalism.

He did so in his book Sic et Non (Yes and No), in which, as Mortimer explains, Abelard examined 158 apparent contradictions in the writings of the Church Fathers, directly challenging the biblical dictum that ‘without faith, there is no understanding’. At the time this bordered on heresy, especially when he proposed that the counter to the proposition that ‘God can know everything’ is the possibility that God does not know everything. This suggested to those of an open mind that if God is not omnipotent, neither are the churchmen, kings and princes who claim to rule with His absolute authority. It was thus the first step on the road to the Enlightenment. As Abelard put it: ‘Doubt leads to inquiry and inquiry leads to truth.’

Much more had to happen before we would get where we are today. Another major development was the widespread availability of vernacular Bibles by the 16th century which meant that, for the first time, an increasingly literate population had access to the word of God without the intervention of a priest. Compare and contrast with the teachings of the Koran which, even in the 21st century, are still largely mediated by specialist, Arabic-speaking imams, the majority of them these days schooled in the purist Deobandi and Wahhabi traditions. If this is the version of Islam that most Muslims are taught is the correct one, is it any wonder they choose not to integrate with kuffar whose ways are haram?

I know I’m not the first person to point out that the problem with Islam is that it’s a seventh-century religion which still carries on as though the subsequent 1,400 years of intellectual development never happened. But though we’re most of us aware of the theory, we clearly haven’t given much thought to the practical implications because if we did, we wouldn’t be so shocked and surprised by the existence of schemes like Operation Trojan Horse and the parallel sharia courts springing up all over Britain.

Of course it seems quite wrong to us, schooled as we are in the values of western liberalism and in concepts like equality before the law. But suppose you believe  with the adamantine conviction imparted by your friendly local Islamist cleric that Wahhabist/Deobandi Islam is the one true way and that all others are vile heresies, well you’d be doing exactly what our Muslim communities are doing now, would you not?

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Show comments
  • Rik

    Yes James they would and they are,mass Muslim immigration is and will continue to be a disaster for this country.
    Integration?? no chance it is their way or no way on every issue and at the slightest criticism they scream “victimisation”
    No other group has so badly abused the welcome given to immigrants by the host nation we have been “culturally enriched in so many delightful ways.
    Demands for Sharia courts
    Trojan horses in our schools
    Rampant postal vote fraud
    Utterly corrupt Local Government
    No go areas enforced by young Muslim thugs
    FGM victims 100,000 plus
    The “grooming” atrocities
    etc etc etc
    All perfectly acceptable as normal in Islamic societies but NOT wanted here

    • David Prentice

      Unlike Lutfur Rahman in Tower Hamlets, I can’t deliver you any more votes.

      • WorthSayingAgain

        Look at the up voting / down voting on the Bradford telegraph and Argos website! Very creative!

      • will91

        Minaret Hamlets… :/

    • Terry Field

      You did not mention the ongoing mass nationwide rape-fest perpetrated by these aliens on OUR girls – on ‘kuffar pigs’ as they call them.
      With the Labour belief-system imposed that effectively gave them immunity care of the lickspittle careerist police who do what their leftie paymasters want – and now it is describe as ‘ the agencies did not believe these girls’!!!!
      Britain has become a truly evil place.
      A murderous, sordid place.
      And, Mr. UKIP supporter, it is entirely home grown.
      You would seek the muslim vote, and keep out Christian Europeans, Insane as well as bloody nasty. It should be the other way round.

      • AverageGuyInTheStreet

        On a slight tangent, an Omar Al-Mukhtar, one of the cadets speaking for the 300 Libyan soldiers (some of whom are now claiming asylum) who had to be kicked out of Bassingbourn due to raping and assaulting the Cambridge locals, complained that it was discriminatory and that no one had explained to them the differences between “right” and “wrong” in this country. The implication being that it is our fault for not explaining to Muslim immigrants that it is wrong to rape men (and women of course).

        That’s the problem – their (Muslim) concepts of right and wrong are at polar opposites to ours. On a day when we remember our war dead its sobering to observe that allowing them into our country in their millions is a far more effective way to destroy us than the Germans could have ever envisaged.

        • Terry Field

          No, they are just a bunch or putrid liars – plus they have deranged barbaric sexual attitudes.Scum of the earth. Yes, much more serious a danger than Krauts or commies. Off the scale in comparison. We used to put them down every century to keep them under control. Lost our bottle now.

          • Greenbit

            ‘Put them down’? You morons were the people who have given them so much power! All those centuries of sacrifice by Hindus, Russians & Jews & all gone to waste because Whitey wanted cheaper bric-a-brac!

          • Terry Field

            Yes, that is corrrect, but I did say ‘we USED to’. A past tense. Not the present tense. Se nursie and she will give you a pill to help you understand.

    • Peter Gardner

      Ah but they mostly vote Labour like half the voters in Britain.

    • myfindhorn

      Time for the army to break up the no go areas as the police seem helpless to enforce our rights to walk in any area of our choice.

  • interesting – i think there must be a lot of cognative dissonance for a young muslim (male) who is told by his religion that he’s a lord of the earth, and who is told by the world he actually lives in that he’s a bit of a nobody. hopefully the trend will be for young muslims to hang onto some mulsim cultural identity but scrap the aggro stuff.

    • gerontius

      Why would they want to scrap the aggro stuff?

    • Ngaire Lowndes

      And therein lies the seeds of terrorism… how better to proclaim his ineffable superiority to the real world than to do his best to destroy it – and gain glory in the doing?

  • Rowland Nelken

    Quite apart from the invocations to Jihad, I understand that it is common practice in Islam, just as it was in the foul cult of Jehovah’s Witnesses in which I was reared, for apostates to be shunned by their families. Fortunately the UK is not one of the many Muslim countries where apostasy from Islam gets you the death penalty, but the threat of rejection by family must be a great incentive for, at least, keepng up Islamic appearances.

    I get increasingly irritated with those who imagine that all religions are the same as, say, Anglicans and Methodists, with Mothers’ Unions, Choir and Flower Festivals Bell ringing, hymn singing, Christmas dinner for the old folks and garden fetes, but simply in different shaped buildings and rather more foreign looking funny clothes.

    It should not take an ex fundie to recognise a fundie, but where the multi culti diversity celebrating brigade are concerned, I fear it does. James Delingpole is an admirable exception.

    • Martin Luffa

      You know those “Honour killings”?

      That’s really just the Islamic death sentence for apostasy. It’s already here.

    • Terry Field

      Brown, Blair, the putrid
      liars of the last Labour so-called ‘government’ should be in prison for life
      for the crimes that they committed. Ruined economy; illegal and utterly
      catastrophic foreign policy, and the cherry on the cake, deliberate flooding of
      a society they utterly loathed with as many migrants as they could find,
      despite the continuously expressed extreme disapproval of over 80% the whole
      nation.

    • Fraser Bailey

      Exactly. It’s not all Muslim Brotherhood and apple pie.

  • Hole_in_One

    And Cameron wants an Asian PM ! Might I suggest Rutfur Rahman

  • lookout

    The muslims are not allowed forensic examination of their texts because to do so would expose the koran as a total sham. Western government think tanks know this but politicians will not take on the information because of oil and money pressures from saudi Arabia etc. Not many leaders are prepared to stand up and tell the truth about islam, Winston Churchill was the last statesman to do so, the politicians today are cowards. See walid shoebat.com

  • Paddy Kilshamus

    I think there is a possibility of a modus vivendi here. For instance I have a
    little Muslim chap I look after when the owner is on holiday. I take him for a walk three times a day so he can do his ablutions and prayers. He is quite well behaved but tends to growl when he sees a short skirted woman. Not sure if he is angry or in heat. I groom him in return for the grooming his people did on those girls in that place I forget the name of. This involves combing his beard and testing him on the Koran texts. I get a lot of attention from other Muslim owners as they like this exotic breed and wish to know about maintenance and temperament etc. I can only tell them that he is very emotionally unstable but utterly devoted as long as you draw a very firm line by hitting him on the nose in training to show him who is boss. Often I will be awoken very early in the morning when he will insist on climbing to the top of the lamppost outside the house and reciting the call to prayer. Some of the neighbors have complained but I pacify them by getting him to sing some nice Cat Stevens songs to them. So in conclusion I recommend any interested owner to keep these chaps on a very strong leash and never ever let them anywhere near a synagogue as the beard plucking and aggression from both sides is ferocious and a sight to behold.

    • Guest

      brilliant

  • MichtyMe

    I have to say, the bit about the imperative of accepting your lot as the will of Allah sounds just like the Christianity of my youth, many decades ago.
    It went like this “The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly and ordered their estate” from Hymns for Little Children, at school, long ago.

    • Mikesmount

      My goodness! How old are you? I am pretty ancient, and “all things bright and beautiful” was already expurgated in my childhood.

      Did you sing “O Valiant Hearts”, as well?

      • MichtyMe

        No, don’t remember that one, but “all things bright and beautiful” is embedded, perhaps because it made me feel so much better about my abode, amidst marbled halls and towers.

    • callimachus

      You seem to be basing your view on a single verse of a hymn first published in the 1840s, a verse that was removed from most hymn books a good many years ago. At the time, it was argued that Mrs Alexander’s original meaning had probably been misconstrued, but the verse still had to go.
      FWIW, the original line was “God made them high or lowly”

      • Damaris Tighe

        Islam’s predestinationism though reminds me of Calvinism. Though Calvinism still managed to be aspirational.

        • Arthur Rusdell-Wilson

          That is because Calvinism is based on the teaching of Augustine of Hippo, who had a very good head on his shoulders. Unlike the Moslems he could reconcile predestination with aspiration.

          • EschersStairs

            Ascriptivism is the word I believe.

            Hinduism has the most extreme form, being theologically tied to the caste system. (Although this is changing)

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Augustine of Hippo

            Quite a lot on that joker’s rap sheet.
            Original sin
            Setting back science and astronomy for over 1,000 years by proclaiming the Earth was flat
            Free will? Of course we have free will. The Boss says so.
            Good head? More like dickhead.

          • Arthur Rusdell-Wilson

            Can you please give me a reference in the works of St. Augustine where he argues that the Earth is flat? Could you also explain why it is always the atheists and secularists that are so rude in the comments they post?

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            “Unfortunately St. Augustine (354-430 AD) found it absurd to think that there might be sons of Adam at the antipodies (anti, opposed and podes, feet) with their feet “opposite” our own, and he declared the Earth was flat — a reversal of knowledge that was corrected only in the late Middle Ages”
            “A Question and Answer Guide to Astronomy” Pierre-Bely et al.
            Keep in mind that Eratosthenes had conclusively proved that the Earth was essentially spherical in around 240 BC and had accurately calculated the circumference, thus to provide radius, volume and even mass.
            And while I at it, take the notion of Limbo: Augustine’s cruel and stupid solution to a non-exisistant problem. Namely, the destination for the souls of children who died before they could be baptised. In retrospect, this was a deliberate piece of Catholic propaganda to encourage parents to have their children baptised sooner rather than later. But imagine the anguish this piece of Augustinian sadism must has caused to literally millions of parents over the centuries. Now at long last the Vatican has revised this insanity. “Limbo? You weren’t supposed to take that seriously.”
            Rude? You should see what I deleted.
            Jack, Japan Alps

          • Arthur Rusdell-Wilson

            I do not know how reliable your secondary source is. A scholarly work would have had a footnote citing the primary source. From its title your work of reference seems to be a popular guide. You do strike me as being unfair to Augustine, given the historical context within which he wrote. I would suggest that neither of us has the time to conduct a polemical discussion in these comments. Like all polemics this would generate more heat than light.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            You really think you can find a pejorative reference to “St” Augustine in a theological tome? What we have here is religious faith going head-to-head with science. “Like all polemics this would generate more heat than light”
            You can’t have light without heat. Presupposing you reside in UK, try Blackwells in Oxford for the text I mention. You might learn something. Assuming you can tear yourself away from Religion and Philosophy, subsection Mysticism and the Occult.
            Jack, Japan Alps

          • Arthur Rusdell-Wilson

            Whilst we’re on science, Jack. Never heard of a light-emitting diode?

    • Old Nick

      Actually it went like this:
      “The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made them COMMA high and lowly and ordered their estate”. The comma indicates that high and lowly is not the predicate of them, but in apposition, that is to say that ‘the Lord God made them all’. And ordering their estate means that He also provided for them (and that Mrs. C.M. Alexander was short of a rhyme).

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        And they call me pedantic.

  • Des Demona

    ”I know I’m not the first person to point out that the problem with Islam is that it’s a seventh-century religion which still carries on as though the subsequent 1,400 years of intellectual development never happened”

    Perhaps not the first, but it certainly bears repeating..

    • MichtyMe

      It could also be pointed out that it ignored the preceding intellectual development of Greco-Roman civilization.

      • Des Demona

        Interestingly enough there was a medieval flowering in Islamic countries in Maths, Science Literature and Architecture back in the day when they still liked a drop of wine and it wasn’t considered taboo. Tells you something maybe?

        • MichtyMe

          Yes, some the rulers of moslem lands took an interest but the religious authorities didn’t approve of sticking the nose into pagan texts.

          • Des Demona

            Very possibly, however one of my favourite poetry verses is by Omar Khayyam written in the 11th Century and is an ode to getting p1xxsed.

            ”Though much as wine has played the infidel
            And robbed me of my robe of honour, well,
            I often wonder what the vintners buy
            One half so precious as the stuff they sell.”

            There’s your problem with Islam right there. A severe lack of alcohol nowadays.

            A few more like Omar and those IS tosspots would be struggling for recruits methinks.

            Alcohol the cause and the cure for all the worlds problems – Homer …… (Simpson)

          • Fenman

            Actually Johnny Walker Blacks 3rd largest market is Saudi. That’s what you call hypocricy. The best private bar I ever saw was in the palace of a prince in Jeddah.

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Johnnie Walker

            What is the matter with you guys? You only have to reach in the trash and read the label on the empty bottle.

          • colchar

            And if they weren’t so repressive when it comes to sex they wouldn’t be nearly as uptight as they are.

          • mrs1234

            Omar Khayyam was a Persian Sufi Muslim and probably despised the kind of organised conservative Arabic Islam that had been spread during his lifetime following the conquering of Persia. It threw a dampener on any further ‘flowering’ as it continues to do so today across the vast swathes of the world in the guise of Wahabism and Deobandism. No opposition is brooked. I need to learn more about it but I truly think it is time, given the enormous number of Muslim children in English schools, that our Department of Education started to look at teaching the spread of Islam during the Middle Ages – why and how this was achieved etc, the role played by Arabs in the slave trade etc. It would be pertinent as the focus on the evils of the West – empire, slavery, crusades etc is throwing things dangerously out of balance and giving many young people the belief that Islam was only ever about peace and joy and fuelling in young Muslim a sense of misplaced victimhood and in non-Muslim Brits a misplaced sense of guilt.
            Would be great if the BBC did a no-holds barred documentary on it but I wont hold my breath!

        • Keith Thomas

          It was in Islamic countries, but was in spite of Islam, not because of it. Many of the scholars of the time were Jews and Christians, and some of the few Muslims involved ended up suffering apostasy or blasphemy charges.

          • evad666

            True one famous emir was killed by the priests for suggesting they should make the use of satraps illegal.

        • redsquirrel

          I’ve read somewhere that coffee helps you get on with the task, but alcohol helps you come up with the idea. It’s one of my guiding principles at work.

          • Des Demona

            Drink Irish coffee all day? Marvellous idea!

        • Oddsbods

          But then the religious leaders, the Imams, got the upper hand over the more secular leaders and they have retained it ever since.

        • Oddsbods

          Yes it shows that at that time the fanatical religious leaders got the upper hand over the modernising more liberal leaders and they have kept and entrenched that power ever since.

  • liam

    Ah good old “Unity FM”, which I often pick up accidentally because it is on a very near wavelength to Radio 4. “Unity”, by the way, is not referring to unity between different communities or the unity of the human race or any high-minded ideal like that – it refers to unity of the Muslim ummah – the “One Ummah” movement which calls for the unity of the Sunnis and Shias against the unbelievers. Judging by your description, the broadcast you heard was fairly tame. I’ve heard much worse on “Unity FM”; they’re really not keen on the so-called kufaar. If you’d been away from Birmingham for 30 odd years, I’m not surprised you felt a bit of culture-shock. It’s also worth pointing out that this is no pirate station – it actually has a broadcasting license from Ofcom, who were probably too scared to ask any serious questions (or quite likely, they were impressed by the use of the word “Unity” and completely misunderstood it).

    • Brogan75

      But WHY on earth someone should give them permission to transmit? why?

    • ArchiePonsonby

      One Ummah? Isn’t he a contender for the Labour leadership?

  • Keith Thomas

    I won’t feel safe until every mosque service, not just the sermons, is available publicly in English. The sermon is one thing, but it’s the ritual litanies in Arabic that tell people that they are special, chosen and superior to the kuffar, who are to be held in contempt. This assumption of superiority together with injunctions to keep the kuffar

  • elaineland

    I’m still trying to understand the mindsets of the people who seem to actually take great delight in this country being racially, culturally, religiously and demographically changed forever, beyond any recognition, unlike anything we have ever seen in our history before.What kind of insane people actually WANT to become a minority in their own country or just dont see a problem in it?

    Maniacs.

    • David Prentice

      The dwarves are for the dwarves, as CS Lewis once said. The left has reached into its grab-bag of moral perversity and decided, for reasons as much of cowardice as of convenience, that it is going to be the guardian/enabler of Islam in western lands. Much easier to kick Christians anyway, eh, they don’t try to behead you in return.

      • global city

        It is the latter-day, secular version of collecting souls…that’s all they’re doing. Once their army of intersectionality and victim/identity groups is larger than those with ‘white privilege’ then their phantom armies will strike.

        They are all mental

    • Coastliner

      Trying to understand the mindset of cultural Marxists is totally impossible. Along with happily facilitating the destruction of their own country, they are more than happy to throw two of their biggest cause celebres under the bus i.e. women’s rights and gay rights just to suck up to the mindsick individuals who subscribe to the ghastly ideologies of Islam. Lefties truly are an evil f*cked up group.

      • colchar

        Excellent comment.

      • Brogan75

        Exactly.I never understood this, never.

        • global city

          Trumps

          Islam trumps feminism and gay rights in the hierarchy of greivancemongering.

          They are all mental

      • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

        How can you confuse Marx with religion. These people are not left wing the are like Hitler and his demand for total submission.

        • TDrowry

          Their ‘internationalist’ world Ummah and the multi racial Muslim ideology is far more like Marxism, the total submission just what Stalin demanded.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Adolf Hitler a Christian demanded total submission to Der Fuhrer and the German and other Christian nations complied.

          • lailahaillallah

            Er, AH was NOT a Christian, other than in the sense he lived in a country with a Christian heritage.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            A christian is someone who says he is a christian. Adolf told his minder that he had been born a roman catholic and would die a roman catholic. All of the Nazi nations were and even today are still christian. It is typical for christians to deny they were responsible for the destruction of much of Europe.

          • global city

            this really is the stupidest post I’ve ever had to read.

            Jesus akbar……never heard on either the western or eastern front….. not once!

            The point is that these people are not just Muslims, they do what they do explicitly in the name of Islam. Hitler did not do what he did for God, Jesus or the Pope.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Of course Hitler did what he did in the name of jesus. All of the Nazi nations were christian and the invasion of the Soviet Union was described by Hitler as a war against athieism.

          • kevinlynch1005

            Start educating yourself about what being a true Christian really meant under the Nazis. Here’s two examples to get you going; Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Maximilian Kolbe, one a Protestant, the other Catholic (for the sake of balance).

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Thats the wonderful thing about religious folk they argue about whom are true to Christianity, Islam etc. Who decides ?

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            You seem to think only the Germans were Nazis.In fact countries like Finland. Romania. Hungary, Italy all very Christian countries and provided no opposition to Nazi policies.

          • global city

            How embarrassing that you have so fundamentally (no pun intended) the whole issue.

          • ArthurSparknottle

            Your idiocy knows no bounds. Nazism used propaganda to persuade and justify all kinds of monstrous actions and beliefs. To say that the Nazis were Christians as if they were motivated by their Christianity to act as they did ignores the fact that the texts and traditions of Christianity are diametrically opposed to what the Nazis did. I don’t even believe that you are seriously of the view that what you say here is the truth. You are just seeking attention.

          • NOYB12345

            And, Hitler poses no threat in 2015 except as fodder for Islamic apologists. (Sorry to repeat a comment I made earlier)

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            All of the Nazi nations were Christian not Muslim,Hindu,Buddist or Taoist. Your insulting response suggests you are a typical intolerant Christian in denial.

          • ArthurSparknottle

            You persist in your error. The fact that Hitler was born a Catholic, does not mean that Catholicism advocates putting people in gas chambers and murdering millions of people in conquered lands. The fact that the defining racial characteristic of Stalin is that he was white, does not make white men mass murderers. You need to go and buy a children’s maths book and look up ‘set theory’. While you are about it, try and find out more about ’cause and effect’. In a complex world of many variables the fact that a person has one feature in their makeup or history does not mean that this is the cause of particular outcomes. I don’t know why I bother to write this; you are obviously deranged. I deduce this fact from your persistence in advocating a ludicrous idea.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Of course he did. Christians are Jew haters and Hitler saw his mission to destroy all Jews.

          • global city

            You are utterly confusing influence, heritage and deliberate action in the name of!

            I (and you?) live in a culture utterly shaped by Judeo-Christian traditions and thought. Its demands influenced society from the palace to the hovel bedroom. I also live in a society that has seen other developments that has stripped back that influence and complete adherence to one religious doctrine.

            I do not do anything as a result in the name of God, or because the Pope said to do so. It has no input into my daily life. I have never done anything ‘for Jesus’.

            It really is an idiot point that you are pursuing.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            I Do not understand your point. Many people do things in the name of God/Jesus and upon the instructions of the Pope. Religion in this country still has not been stripped back and Bishops still influence legislation. Why did you feel that my comment was idiotic yet you still responded ?

          • global city

            It’s like when you leave home. You were raised by your Mum and dad and the morals they taught you will still influence your actions, but your Dad will not longer be in control of your life….you’ve moved on from that period of your life.

            your stuff about Bishops is largely irrelevant.

          • Ivan Ewan

            “A christian is someone who says he is a christian”?

            You got any grey matter between the ears or is it all sawdust? This may be news to you, but Hitler was a liar.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Then perhaps all christians are liars.

          • akrasia

            Hitler was a biped mammal with opposable thumbs and breathed oxygen. You are too.
            Then you must be a Nazi.
            Spooky.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Using your logic every homo-sapiens is a Nazi.

          • Ivan Ewan

            Is it always everything or nothing to you?

          • ArthurSparknottle

            I bear no torch for Christianity, but you should be aware of the logical error you just committed.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            There is nothing logical about religion. I have always felt difficulty in believing that people who said they were Christians were telling the truth.

          • Russ Littler

            You two clowns have lost the plot. You have totally digressed from the content of this forum and it has degenerated into a private argument. Your energies may be better employed with useful comments addressing the article in question..

          • ‘ere we go

            I must admit I was briefly distracted from the original issue. Some who post here are like kids banging a big drum, difficult to ignore.
            Like most non muslims the influence of Islamic beliefs, their
            settlement in Europe, and their rejection of our ways is I think of great concern. in more recent times the cruel deeds of extremists makes a response essential. If the Imans cannot or will not do so we must. This needs to be a bipartisan issue, more important than the electioneering which currently dominates the news.

          • Russ Littler

            “nuff” said i guess. Sorry to be so blunt, but i think that these type of forums are a geat opportunity to address the real issues that have been deliberately implemented by the “looney left infra-structure that currently pervades every council/ public service office in this country. They have put everyone in this impossible position through their progressive liberal, politically correct, brainwashed ideology. (why i have no idea? it’s like shooting your own foot) but we have the power to push back the tide, provided we collectively speak up for our rights, and highlight their deliberate policy of eroding British culture and values.
            The British voter is beginning to wake up, and they are looking for a genuine way of getting rid of the current political class, and trying to get real change. Unity of voice is the only way people will get real change. We must stop being afraid to speak the truth, no matter whether we get branded as “offensive”, “racist”, bigots, or any other derogatry names. If we all air our grievances publically, it will give others the courage to follow suit and vote for a new political system. People respect the truth, even if the politicians don’t.
            We cannot carry on undermining our own country and society in the way we have over the last 30 years. It will be too late.

          • Ed  

            Hitler explicitly rejected Christianity. A lot of his torchlight and runes crap was aimed at replacing it.

          • Ed_Burroughs

            Hitler’s Birthday was celebrated in Rome though. The fact is, like much of Germany at the time, the Nazis were Catholic. Hitler repeatedly appealed to Christianity as the basis for his doctrine:http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler. Even if this was a canard it clearly had “grass roots” appeal and Christianity certainly did nothing to inoculate against the spread of fascism.

          • Ed  

            Rome likes Hitler Hitler likes Rome. It’s pretty clear that even if he used it to his advantage at times, Hitler disliked and resented the mass appeal of Christianity, as well as the possibility of ethical challenges to his activities, such as Father Bonhoeffer posed.

          • Ed_Burroughs

            Hitler wasn’t amenable to any challenges to his authority though.

          • NOYB12345

            And regardless, Hitler poses no threat to us in 2015 except as fodder for Islamic apologists.

          • Ed  

            I find he poses a threat to the left, as well. When you point out that national socialists were socialists, every so often some unhinged leftie goes 360-head-spin on you. There’s definitely a nerve out there about it, and touching it can be valuable.

          • NOYB12345

            Did you see Ben Affleck go jihadi on Bill Maher and Sam Harris (if not, google it). To me that moment was the embodiment of Liberal shut-down of dialogue, talking in circles, making accusations of racism and bigotry. I don’t understand why, if “all muslims aren’t bad” we are not permitted to acknowledge, and discuss, the fact that a great many ARE, just like any other ideology we seem to be free to critique.

          • Ed  

            It seems the President of Egypt now agrees with us. We need more people like him……

          • NOYB12345

            And Mayor of Rotterdam.

          • Ed  

            Yes. I just saw that today. Wonderful. Cross your fingers; is the muslim world starting to have that discussion? I’ve argued for years that there’s hope for the middle east, because if the Irish can figure it out, anyone can. I’m saying my prayers tonight.

          • NOYB12345

            And keep commenting. Maybe it all helps.

          • Ed  

            I’m very gentle about it, but I also talk to my muslim friends and colleagues about islam figuring itself out. The ones I know are nice folks, and I’d just like more of the middle east to be like them.

          • ‘ere we go

            I, like Hitler am vegetarian. And I am a Labour supporter. Which in your book no doubt makes me a total raving looney. I don’t feel any urges to harm Jews however. Or start ww3.
            I think your suggestion that socialists are like Hitlers National Socialists is a childish misrepresentation. Hitler and the Nazi party were funded by wealthy business men. So they were Tories?

          • Ed  

            Well, you and I are both less than 200 feet tall, which makes us both sequoia trees. We’re both under the influence of Earth’s gravity, which makes us moons. We can play this airhead game all day, if you want.

            Meanwhile, back here in the real world:

            There are a wide variety of socialists, from Canada’s gentle NDP right over to Mao’s bloodthirsty communists. And all sorts of reasonableness and psychopathy in between. It’s just not right to not include socialists of a nationalistic bent when discussing socialism.

            Many on the left are perfectly happy to gloss over the various evils committed by international socialists, while screaming mightily when national socialists come up, so keeping in focus the nazis’ proper place on the political spectrum is a good idea.

          • ‘ere we go

            I have no interest in playing any of your games ; I grew up in a Labour family with an uncle who witnessed Churchill’s mounted troops disperse striking miners; striking you will know because their wages had been reduced. If you read ‘Road to Wigan pier’ you will know what a miners lot was like.
            Mrs T had more success dealing with miners. She closed them down, making a wilderness for once bright hard working townsfolk. You know of some link you say between men like this and Hitlers Nazis? Perhaps also you will say the Spanish Nationalist government asked Hitlers and Mussolini’s airforce to destroy their city of Guernica? This was the real world you may wish to gloss over.

          • Ed  

            OK then, let’s list the worst people in all history.

            1. Mao (socialist)
            2. Stalin (socialist)
            3. Hitler (socialist)
            4. Napoleon (I’ve never tried to categorize him beyond simply “dictator”, but I suppose the argument that he was some sort of proto-socialist could be made, based on liberté, fraternité, egalité and bayonetté)

            Carrying on down from there, we can easily find lots more socialist dictators. Mugabe. Pol Pot. I won’t go on. It’s making me sick.

            I don’t know that family connections are much value in the discussion either. My father’s been voting Labour (and then Canadian NDP) since Churchill was given the Order of the Boot, and yet his family had to leave Labour Britain. They’ve done much, much better in Canada (a country that doesn’t have a working class in the British sense) than they ever could have back home. He’s always voted one way, and lived his life another.

            You also discuss funding. How much of that funding was at gunpoint? A thought experiment. What would be the fate of a German industrialist canvassed for funds by your friendly neigbourhood gauleiter if he was recalcitrant? The Labour governments of the 50s and 60s funded themselves with wrecking taxes on the aristocracy. Why do you think all those stately homes are in the National Trust? It’s not because of voluntary tax payments. 19 and six in the pound will do that to the best heeled duke. Does this make
            Aneurin Bevan an aristocrat?

            I thought not.

          • ‘ere we go

            Those you name wore cloaks of socialism. Only the raving right will tar the Labour party and their supporters with the same brush.
            Going back to the topic, you may recall it is about the spread of Islam and the numbers of Muslims settling in UK cities. As you will be aware the situation is much the same in France where I live now. ‘Charlie’ shows courage but should be tempered with common sense, for extremist will target our family as well as ourselves. Courage alone will not defeat those who wish us ill.
            Security must be a first priority. It is unfortunate that a general election will distract from this issue.
            In Europe the situation is rather different to the UK. The Germans are anxious not to appear intolerant post war, while the French it seems have more security in place already. Post Algerian war I guess.

          • Ed  

            All we’re doing is acknowledging that there’s a continuum of ideology on the left. There are socialists who are quite reasonable and you can have sensible discussions with, such as many in the Labour party, even if there’s thoughtful disagreement over whether particular policies work. Then at the other end of the spectrum there’s Stalin. There’s a lot of room in between – including national socialism. That’s not “tarring”, that’s clear thinking.

            I don’t like the argument that elections “distract” from issues. Having discussions and elections about issues is sort of the point.

            Having said all that, you’re absolutely right about security. Part of being an open and tolerant society is being appropriately intolerant of those who are intolerant. This is hard to do, particularly when carrying baggage such as the Germans do.

          • Roger Hudson

            Hitler was a Catholic, it was Himmler who pushed the nordic pre-christian ( mostly made-up) stuff.

          • Ed  

            Right. And Hitler did how much to discourage and rein in his off-the-reservation subordinate? Yeah. Blaming Catholics for Hitler is like blaming Africans for Obama. Not a good idea.

          • ‘ere we go

            Hitler was a Catholic? He didn’t seem to have Christian values. Stalin was a Marxist? Didn’t he have Trotsky butchered for Marxist views? Blair a Thatcherite? That’s about right. All three enjoyed absolute power for a while!

          • The Laughing Cavalier

            Hitler rejected his Christian heritage in favour of a bastardised neo-pagan mythology. Many Christians were persecuted by his regime.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Nonsense Hitler declared himself to be a Roman Catholic and there were no christians persecuted by the Nazi regime.

          • christine

            Kirchenkampf, baby!
            The Nazi persecution of Christian churches esp. Catholic.

            It’s history,

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            No it is not.All of the Nazi nations encouraged Christianity and even SS divisions had their chaplains.The Nazis destroyed Synagogues but not any church or cathedral

          • christine

            I don’t understand your argument. Who are “all the Nazi nations” you refer to?
            I think we are talking about Hitler in Germany.
            I’m reluctant to debate with you because you are so entrenched in your Nazi/Christian narrative, but you should know that concentration camps had special sections for Catholic priests.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            The Nazi nations were Finland,Italy Austria,Vichy France,Hungary,Romania,Bulgaria,Slovakia and Croatia.

          • Ed  

            So the hundreds of German churches bombed to smithereens by the USAAF and the RAF weren’t the fault of the nazis?

            You’re sure you’ve thought this through?

          • kevinlynch1005

            That is monumentally ignorant. See my two examples above, just to get your education started.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            What examples ?

          • Ed  

            Ahahahaha! No Christians persecuted by the nazis? You do remember that they invaded Catholic France, right? You do remember that they bombed the living Hell out of Anglican Britain, right? Yikes, dude.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Of course this happened because all religions are pernicious and there is no difference between Islam and Christianity as to the depth of there depravity.

          • Ed_Burroughs

            Which Nations complied? None of them!

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            The nations who complied were Finland, Italy,Romania,Hungary Slovakia,Croatia and Bulgaria.

          • Ed_Burroughs

            Allied and complied are different in my book.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            They complied in invading the Soviet Union and taking part in the holocaust.

          • Ed_Burroughs

            I understood that the term complied suggests that they only went along with the scheme under duress. I’m not sure that was the case?

          • Michael H Kenyon

            Note the collective Ummah, so excised by global Islamic problems half a world away that it excuses their atrocities locally suddenly say they are not responsible when it happens in Paris.

        • Ed  

          National socialists were socialists, something the left today is at great pains to hide (and to hide from). Looking at their activities in this light clarifies quite a lot.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            Thats like claiming New Labour are socialists.

          • Ed  

            I’m going to make the assumption that New Labour aren’t Thatcherite……

          • Neil Saunders

            But they are, aren’t they?

          • Ed  

            I doubt they’d reply in the affirmative, if asked.

          • Neil Saunders

            So do I.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            It is an assumption, Tony Blair was often called the son of Thatcher.

          • Ed  

            Ah, but did he ever admit it himself? I think Thatcher, like Howard in Australia, and possibly Harper in Canada, was transformative. If Blair wanted to get elected, he had to swim in the new currents. This doesn’t mean he wanted to.

        • McQueue

          Collectivism is left wing. They are left wing.

      • Richard

        Not all Feminists and Gays are pro-Islam, to say the least but I see that Ken Livingstone is calling the inquiry into Luftur Rahman ‘islamaphobic’.

        I Think LR just might end up douing a little bit of bird.

        • David Prentice

          Porridge for Luftur? Inshallah!

        • hal8999

          There is, as always, a surprisingly large tranche of gay men – usually the invisible majority – who are comfortably to the right of Cameron, and you will find that nearly all of them despise Islam whatever their political views; it is only their well-meaning “friends” who are stupid enough to apologise for those idiots. I think their experience of their own instincts is enough to persuade them that the feminist shibboleths about the constructed nature of desire and identity are dangerous and nonsensical.

      • Dauer_Gast

        The logic behind what the left does is that in order to replace what exists right now with what the left thinks is a better society what currently exists has to be destroyed: the family, arts, patriotism, religion, demography, traditions etc.
        I’m sure everyone can figure out what pet peeve of the left serves to attack which institution of western societies.

        • global city

          they are destroying the west, quite deliberately…then they in turn will be destroyed by darker forces still.

          They miss that bit out of their deluded iconoclastic wankoffdreams.

          imagine what Jihadi John would do with telemachus?

        • ‘ere we go

          Replace the word left with Islamic extremist and you will have made a useful point in this debate. Otherwise stick your head back where it was.

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      The truth is almost certainly far more banal than that. We have a population problem (often called a “time bomb”), mostly due to the Ponzi-like nature of our pension and welfare system. I think something like 1 in 60 people are over 80 at the moment. In a few decades it will be 1 in 12. Quite shocking in many ways to think about the immense burden that will put on the State.

      • Kevin T

        Will it though be 1 in 12? Unless we dramatically change our eating and lifestyle habits, today’s young and middle aged will be dropping a lot earlier than 80.

        • Ed  

          Nah. The Americans keep coming up with health innovations that keep the deep-fried-mars-bar crowd stitched up. Of course, obamacare may change that…

      • sfin

        That is the only rational argument in favour of mass immigration I’ve heard…

        …but never from our political class. It has never been put to the electorate that ,whilst the wartime generation made huge sacrifices to safe guard our western, post-enlightenment, democratic way of life, the baby boomers have rendered that sacrifice worthless in creating the giant Ponzi scheme that is now our economy. In short, they p*ssed it all up against the wall.

        Our polical masters didn’t offer us choices (such as a longer working life, increased pension contributions etc) – they foisted their solution on us by stealth (and let’s not forget the social spin off of ‘rubbing the right’s nose in diversity’).

        The problem now is the influx and entrenchment of a pre-enlightenment ideology in our midst and the idiots that spout ‘tolerance’ are going to see that tolerance consumed.

        We reap what we sow.

        • Tom M

          This giant Ponzi sceheme you refer to was, as any left-wing adherant will tell you, a creation of the Labour Party with their usual far reaching visonary perspective called the Welfare State.
          Please do not label all the people who seen the problem under the collective term of baby-boomers.
          I just happen to be one of them born into that era and all my adult life these problems you mention have been apparent to anyone who looked. Even the (rare) intelligent politicians appear sometimes to comprehend.
          The problem faced by all politicians is that the population expects continually better and better living conditions and many voters vote on that hope alone. Few people vote for someone who tells them it’s going to get worse.
          You yourself of course could stand as a candidate promising that the country must live within it’s means and see how many votes you get.

          • sfin

            Me too – just (b. 1963).

            I think you’re making my point – in more detail. I certainly cannot find anything to disagree with, even if it is slightly off topic. I think the ‘continually wanting better and better’ is a post war phenomenon that has seen us bequeath £1.5T (and counting) of debt to future generations. Home ownership is looking like an increasingly unlikely dream for my son’s generation and I don’t expect anything like the retirement my father enjoyed.

            Your last paragraph makes my point exactly. Which is that

            a) Politicians don’t consult the electorate on the realities of the state of the nation.

            b) They’re willing to disrupt a thousand years of societal evolution in the cause of short term political power.

      • andyrwebman

        There are solutions around this

        1. We all have to work for longer – the price of our increased life expectancy and better health.

        2. Industry becomes increasingly mechanized and the number of jobs available for people falls sharply. Note that if this happens and we’ve imported lots of immigrants, we’ll have the worst of all worlds – high unemployment, a crowded country, and cultural fragmentation.

    • GraveDave

      Yes, James’ leader even wants to see an Asian primeminisiter.

    • Terry Field

      Criminal maniacs, as are the police forces who serve their requirements.

    • Gerhardt Kippets

      Well, you’ve answered your own question – insane people.

    • Gareth Mailer

      Yep.

      Also, who wants to be part of a group anyone can join? An inclusive, diverse national identity is an unavoidably weaker one.

    • SeanieRyan

      While I agree with you and think that Islam is a threat to Europe, the new Communism or fascism.

      I also have to admit that I can see the delicious irony of Britain being on the receiving end of what it practiced for so long.

      Though given it is happening all over the Western World I let that pass on just as quick.

      • TDrowry

        It’s also a delicious irony that Ireland is now being introduced to Mass immigration after all the emigrants they sent out over the world

        • Kennie

          Yes, ironic isn’t it, that the Irish have gone all round the world, singing about how wonderful Ireland is. I often used to wonder, could that be because most of them are not there?

      • Richard

        What do you feel about, say, Negroid South Africans having ethnically-cleansed the indigenous peoples from southern Africa? Or the Irish immigrants to Texas having burned down the farms and killed the indigenous people who lived there? Or the one-and-a-half million Europeans carried off into slavery by the Barbary Pirates? Just wondering if you are able to think outside the standard IRA-type stuff.

      • Simon Fay

        Yeah, right on, Mick – cos if Britain sinks there won’t be any ripples big enough to swamp the smaller country just a few miles away now, will there?

        • SeanieRyan

          I can still see the irony of your son living with a pakistani man or your own husband running off with the Nigerian woman up the road.

          • Simon Fay

            Irony. A great comfort when everything is being destroyed. I’m sure the 1916 rebels would smirk knowingly at the prospect of the Dail needing approval for its budget from Berlin. “Sure, how utterly delicious”…

            Make no mistake: the forces attempting to dissolve Britain won’t stop at its borders, and those shoulder-shrugging cracks from the student-union bar can’t cover up the wrong done to both countries’ ordinary peoples.

          • SeanieRyan

            I agree that every nation in Europe is at risk of becoming a multi-cultural carbon copy of everywhere else.

            At great cost to society as we know it.

    • Liberty

      It is because they hate Western culture and will support any culture that seems as it if will destroy it. They rationalise this by telling themselves that it is the Western culture that oppresses Muslims, Blacks, etc and and forces them to rebel but when Western culture is overthrown sweetness and light will prevail and all conflict will end. They think this because Marx told them it is so.

      • Jews believe if all their enemies were eliminated it would be sweetness and light. Christians believe if all unsaved sinners were saved, it would be all sweetness and light.

        Where do the Muslims get the idea of 72 virgins? From the Jewish-Christian Book of Genesis.

        So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
        And God blessed them, and God said to them, Be fruitful, and
        multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over
        the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every
        living thing that moves upon the earth…………….And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day……………..And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed…….
        And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where are you?
        And he said, I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
        And he said, Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the
        tree, whereof I commanded you that you should not eat?
        Genesis 2 & 3

        What tree? Most people have been trained not to think or question beyond the ‘apple tree’ but is is recorded as being the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, and since then, everybody has had a taste of that tree.

        From what is recorded in the Genesis, the man and the woman were naked with no hang ups about it. All their children would have been naked too, so there would be virgins galore in that Paradise Garden God created for Humans on Earth in the Beginning according the the Judea-Christian Bible story.

        • Ed  

          If everyone on Earth has tasted from the Tree of Knowledge, why are so many of them still so stupid?

        • The Laughing Cavalier

          Nothing about 72 virgins in the above.

          • John Vernon

            They must surely have run out by now? But anyway, imagine the bitchiness (cattiness?) such a menage would engender.. surely, long term, it must be a threat to any young man?

    • GenJackRipper

      Ethnomasochist I think it’s called.

    • Alphahel1x

      The late Lawrence Auster delved more deeply into these murky questions than anyone else I know of. Google “Western Liberals’ Ultimate Embrace of Islam”. Excerpt:

      “I realized that these spiritually emptied-out elites are not just anti-Western … they literally do not want our civilization to continue, it’s too guilty, too powerful, and its guilt and its power are too much of a burden for them. How do you go on upholding something that you don’t believe in anyway? … Western liberals can no longer stand pretending to care about and to be responsible for a civilization that they no longer believe in. They resent the charge; they’re weary of the task. If the opportunity were offered to them, they would much prefer to be the retainers and attendants of a Muslim Caliph of Europe, no longer having to carry the unwanted and disliked burden of Western-ness and white-ness, but serving in a subordinate though still useful and honorable role in a new Islamic Golden Age. They would be happier and more fulfilled that way.”

    • Richard

      No, no, it’s quite simple. The Left are desperate to get more votes. Ethnics vote for them overwhelmingly. The more ethnics they import, they more votes they get. It is in their interests to destroy the indigenous culture and people because they represent an obstacle to the hegemony of the Left. British whitey is too much of a gamble – maybe he’ll vote for you, maybe he won’t – but these people are a dead certainty. Which horse would you back in a race? The one who wins sometimes, or the one who wins always? There you have it. Never underestimate the self-interest of the Left.

    • Liberty

      Because they hate the US, UK, Western free thinking in general and vote Labour.

    • Ed  

      This stuff reminds me of the time Chandra Bose met with Hitler, to ask for help in ejecting the British from India. After Bose left, Hitler said “after we’ve been there for a week, they’ll be begging for the British back”.

      I genuinely don’t understand why the socialist left is so hung up on the jihidiots. If the jihidiots ever got real power over feminists and gays, they’d not be begging for the C of E back only because they all. be. dead.

      Every time the issue comes up of how mistreated gays and women and blacks are in the west, I ask “how many gays are there in Iran?” Answer? Zero. Source? The government of Iran, which is proud that they’ve all been hanged. Not to mention the stomach-turning evil of girl genital mutilation.

      How are they so blind as to not SEE this?

      • mightymark

        They have lost the allegiance of the Western working class and so resort “any port in a storm”.

      • Greenbit

        This stuff reminds me of the time Chandra Bose met with Hitler, to ask for help in ejecting the British from India. After Bose left, Hitler said “after we’ve been there for a week, they’ll be begging for the British back”.

        That’s War propaganda, created by the British during the time of the Naval Mutiny of 1946. In reality, Bose NEVER got any response from Hitler, was pissed off that the Nazis were attacking nations willy-nilly without any semblance of a future plan & most importantly- finally got around to reading Hitler’s Love Letter to the British Empire- the Mein Kampf.

        I know it’s part of the great WW2 narrative about how the West was the guardian of peace & freedom & democracy- but that’s bullshit. Gatling guns mowing down peaceful demonstrators is NOT peace. Man-made famines targeted at restive provinces is NOT freedom. A 85% tax on Indian commerical entities is NOT Democracy.

        I don’t understand why you Brits re still obsessed with us. Go away. Forget about us.

        There was once a chance that a resurgent India would target Britain for vengeance- but that’ll never happen now. The Muslims will destroy you guys before that come to pass. Stop bothering us & do something about the poor kid in Rotherham.

        • Ed  

          Whoo. Down boy. Nerve touched, I see.

          While Bose wasn’t as nasty as Jinnah, I’m not about to give him any credit. Nor am I about to credit anyone over the nazis in the field of propaganda.

          History is what it was; “obsessing” over it is simply hoping to avoid its horrors, through study.

          I’d love to see “a resurgent India target Britain for vengeance”; watching them try, while speaking English, would be amusing.

    • Stuck-Record

      You can’t begin to understand them without realising that they perceive themselves to be much cleverer than anybody else.

      Their embrace of anything anti-western is simply a tactic with which to beat down their own societies. The long-term goal is to create distrust, anarchy, confusion and dissatisfaction with a liberal Western capitalism. The endgame being gradual dawning amongst the ‘lumpenproletariat’ that Marxism is the only true way to control society. And they, and their descendants, can take their rightful place as the true ruling elite of a Marxist state.

      The belief in their own ‘cleverness’ is so total that they believe this long game to outmanoeuvre capitalism will work. The monstrous arrogance (and their persistent failure) is to misunderstand that those they seek to manipulate may, in fact, genuinely have agendas of their own and may actually be cleverer and more manipulative than they are.

      Islam is just the latest in a long series of tools that cultural Marxists have attempted to manipulate. And in their superior blindness, the cultural Marxists failed to perceive that they have been played.

    • oregun

      If a cultural group looks to move into your country then they should abide by the local norms and customs. If their intent is to change your culture to theirs then they should be asked to leave or made to leave. It is your country.

    • andyrwebman

      It’s hatred for the culture that spawned them, pure and simple. A “grass is greener on the other side” philosophy which doesn’t really stand for anything it regards as good, rather it “knows” that the parent culture is “bad”.

      This despite the fact that we live in a culture with more wealth, freedoms, and life span than any in history.

    • Russ Littler

      Intellectually challanged people, usually the “progressive” liberal left, who’ve been taught “what” to think, instead of “how” to think.

  • Mr_Ominous

    Islam has no place in a modern prosperous country or a country that seeks to become prosperous. Allowing mass migration of Muslims into the UK (and Europe) has been a disaster. We are now just starting to get a glimpse of what lay ahead with the goings on in Birmingham, Tower Hamlets and Rotherham. What is the solution? Tolerance (obedience) seems to be what the majority of English people have chosen. Banning Islam and repatriating Muslims is the only peaceful means by which violent social breakdown will be avoided in England.

    • Terry Field

      The rapefest is all over the country
      Not just the few places mentioned so far

      • jesseventura2

        Where ever there is a filthy muslim take away there will be muslim grooming dogs kept under the carpet by labour vermin?

        • Terry Field

          WHy the question mark? Are you a policeman??

    • MaSek12

      Germany also has problems with muslims. Sweden too. When will we damn well wake up?

    • Jiffy

      It would be good to know what people think the limits of tolerance are.

  • LindaRivera

    The global muslim community are deeply aware that muslim immigrants and muslim invaders who cunningly call themselves asylum seekers and refugees are immediately given free infidel money, benefits and social housing that belongs to indigenous Brits. And that UK authorities ALLOW dirty, demonic, savage, inhuman sex-slaver muslim monsters — the Spawn of Satan, to gang rape, torture and force into prostitution and sex-slavery many thousands of Britain’s infidel little girls. Muslims can’t wait to get into Islamic Paradise Britain where racist white-hater ruling elites persecute, arrest, and unjustly jail white Brits, such as EDL human rights activists who protest against evil muslim sex-slavery and where muslims get to sexually attack and sexually enslave little British girls. Please God, help Britons.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815055/Police-cap-arrests-Rochdale-sex-abuse-inquiry-Social-worker-whistleblower-says-dozens-offenders-streets.html 30 October 2014 Police ‘put cap on arrests’ in Rochdale sex abuse inquiry: Social worker whistleblower says dozens of offenders are still on streets. Dozens of child sex offenders are still walking free, whistleblower says. Sara Rowbotham accuses police of ‘having a cap’ on the number of arrests. Child rapists and abusers are still preying on children, she has claimed. She says police chiefs became obsessed with convicting just nine men.

    Meanwhile many more were ‘allowed to escape’, Miss Rowbotham said. Dozens of child sex offenders are still walking the streets because police refused to arrest them, according to a whistleblower. Sara Rowbotham has accused police of putting a cap on the number of child sex offenders they arrested for raping and abusing young girls.
    The veteran social worker, who was responsible for gathering the main evidence in the 2012 Rochdale child sex abuse case, said that as a result dozens of sex offenders were still walking the streets preying on children. But not only did they cap the number of offenders but they also put a ceiling on the number of victims they would interview and proceed with.’

    Her explosive comments will stun Greater Manchester Police whose Police and Crime Commissioner yesterday launched a report highlighting the massive problem of child sexual exploitation. The report highlighted 13,000 cases of child sex abuse in the last six years but revealed that only 1,078 offenders were convicted.

    But Miss Rowbotham, a social worker in Rochdale for more than 13 years, said the police were still doing far too little to combat on-street grooming. She said: ‘It’s still going on. The same perpetrators are still out there because police put a ceiling on the number of arrests. The actual number of suspects is huge but the number of victims is equally large. ‘They are still having to deal with the trauma of that on a day-to-day basis knowing no-one has ever been brought to justice for abusing them.’ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815055/Police-cap-arrests-Rochdale-sex-abuse-inquiry-Social-worker-whistleblower-says-dozens-offenders-streets.html

    Racist, white-hater ruling elites PROTECT muslim sex-attacker savages and hate and despise white, sex-slave child victims. The social worker whistleblower who cares deeply about sex-slave child victims and wants the barbarian filth punished and every last victim rescued was made redundant. Weep for Britain’s children.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk: Miss Rowbotham, who fought for a Serious Case Review and was commended for her work by the Home Affairs Select Committee, was made redundant in February. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815055/Police-cap-arrests-Rochdale-sex-abuse-inquiry-Social-worker-whistleblower-says-dozens-offenders-streets.html

    UK racist, rabid white-hater authorities are profoundly evil and the biggest traitors that ever walked God’s earth.

    THERE is NO ONE to PROTECT the CHILDREN! Join in the fight for our freedom and survival! Join EDL protest demos and join patriotic Liberty GB! http://libertygb.org.uk/v1/
    British Schoolgirl’s Testimony – Muslims Threaten Children With Violence & Rape Outside School Daily
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO1yN-eKjmo

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      “Sara Rowbotham accuses police of ‘having a cap’ on the number of arrests.”
      If this is anything like accurate, it’s high time the UK “Lame Stream Media” got on the case. What about it, Spectator?

      • ArchiePonsonby

        Fat chance! The Barclays are after gongs, doncha know, hence the emasculation of the Telegraph and its no-nonsense former readership?

  • quovadis2014

    How ironic he mentions the Enlightenment. England has Enlightened itself right off the edge of a cliff. What started so well and brought so much has now mutated into a type of Cultural Leukemia where white blood cells which once brought health now have attacked its host. They will soon kill England if nothing changes.
    As I watch from over here in ‘Murika, I can’t help but laugh and shake my head. All those years of looking down your nose at us, all the condescension, all that and now it turns out we were right all along England. Turns out we need to start air dropping “Keeping It Real” on your sorry Island. You should hire some mercenary Republicans to go over there and eradicate the Elitist brain cancer that has allowed your “Enlightened Academics” to drive your heads so far up your collective asses it must really be hurting right about now.

    • Simon_in_London

      You’re killing yourselves too, just more slowly.

    • Gregory Mason

      Some of your states are in a much worse than anywhere in this country lol.

      I would however like to take your offer of some Republicans though. It’d be nice to see some actual conservatives run for an election.

  • redsquirrel

    This is the most depressing page on the internet.

  • evad666

    Remember be careful we have a PM who prefers this philosophy to scientific rationalism wishing more voters were subject to the intellectual rigor of wahabi and deobandi islam as the political elite encourage across northern mill towns.
    The PM and his chums would do well to check out the real fiscal roots of immigrant success such as benefit fraud and the “black” economy.

  • Richard

    Could it be that this is the path of civilisation destruction? Struggle, expansion, stability, retreat, loss of belief in oneself, cloud-cuckoo land, miscegenation, death. This is what it looks like to me for the West.

  • The sad truth is that Britain, as we know it anyway, is dying. We have been utterly betrayed by our socialist government of the last 15 years, who have enacted changes which seem to me to be irreversible. And, as socialism always does (Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, North Korea, etc), it has caused social conditions which will lead to many thousands, perhaps millions, dead. I, like many of us here, will fight until the bitter end, but the way things are going, with metropolitan areas already largely annexed by the Religion Of Peace (TM) and our pathetic, spineless establishment still refusing to do anything, we need a drastic change in the ideology of millions of voters.

    We are a small island, and within 3-4 decades, if current demographic breeding rates continue (and many Brits are leaving while they still can), we will become an Islamic state, and the world will have lost one of history’s greatest and fairest powers. Socialism is and always has been pure evil, and Tony Blair must forever be reviled as the sickest, most twisted despot in British history (which may now be coming to an end as we know it). He knew exactly what he was doing to change his country in every possible sense for the worse (economically, culturally, religiously, politically, legally) and did it anyway, so that the minorities his sick government protected could vote to keep him in power. Words cannot do justice to how much I despise this most evil traitor, and I only hope we have a future Britain left to spit on his grave and curse his name.

    It is impossible to understate exactly how much trouble we are in. It’s the same across Europe, but we are the worst; the largest relative Muslim population, the furthest away from doing something about it. Our society is weak, because liberalism kills societies, as everyone here well knows. We have lived lives of luxury and decadence for so long in our rainbow bubbles, never anticipating war (and understanding war as between nations, not between races, the latter of which has a far longer history). But war, when it comes, will be against a hyper-conservative force from a part of the world which has only ever known war, and has utterly no bounds on its brutality. We’ve celebrated degeneracy (sorry, Diversity (TM)) for far too long. I wonder how this will impact our ability to conflict one of the most sick, twisted, and evil ideologies mankind has ever known, by fanatics who our government continues to protect. We need to deport them now and ban Islam. But our socialist brainwashing has been so strong that we are a long way from electing a party with that kind of ideology.

    • Simon_in_London

      “Liberalism kills societies”

      Unfortunately this does seem to be true, of radical liberalism at least. Without countervailing conservative elements it turns into a suicide cult, as we have been seeing since 1997.

    • Coastliner

      As you say – what Blair & his vile ilk did has caused an irreversible change in this country and the change – as is proven on a daily basis – is most certainly not for the better, as our once great towns and cities become run down, filthy third world slums populated by unemployable third world benefit vampires.

    • AverageGuyInTheStreet

      Well yes but you have to recognize that the Tories are equally culpable in this mess, representing as they do the business leaders, who use mass immigration to flood the labour market – its been a race to the bottom between Labour and Cons. Last election immigration was in the top 3 issues, along with the economy. The Tories said, no OK, we lied before, but this time we really mean it- vote for us and we’ll get the numbers coming in down to the 10s of 1000s. Come on. The damage to our country is now so great we can’t allow the established parties another chance to wreck it further.

      • I was very much including the Tories when I mentioned the socialist government of the past 15 years. Camerloon’s bunch of sellouts are just as much a part of the bourgeois bohemian leftist liberal establishment which has utterly destroyed this country. And I am voting UKIP, needless to say.

        • dado_trunking

          Of course you are Rich, and your own profile page says you’re Paul Weston’s son.
          How is he btw? My regards to your Romanian mother.

          • Hello, Comrade! Have you recited the Three Mantras today? Mass Immigration Was/Is Necessary. Islam Is Peaceful. Multiculturalism Is Wonderful.

      • colchar

        The problem is that the Tories are stuck in a coalition with the Lib-Dems and thus cannot implement many of their promises. If they had been given a majority government I am sure they would have acted differently.

        • ArchiePonsonby

          I wouldn’t bet on it!

    • ArchiePonsonby

      Leaving the ghastly Blair and his grotesque wife to enjoy their millions!

  • Simon_in_London

    I don’t think Wahabbism (including Deobandi) bears much resemblance to 7th century Islam – or to 12th century Islam, for that matter. Not that it is necessarily worse (though it might be), but it seems to be a reaction to Islam’s weakening position in the 18th century, which gives it a different tone compared to the older conquerors’-religion.

  • Fenman

    It is exactly this truth that our 3 main parties are desperate no to admit, because the core values of Islam as preached are in direct conflict with those of liberal Western civilisation. Therefore, it is crazy to allow them to settle in this country. It is a 5th column.
    It was once explained to me by Western educated ‘moderate’ Muslim that it was all right to lie to me or any other kuffar, because as non-believers we do not count. This has been interpreted by many that they can do anything against non-believers with impunity, as we see daily. But our cowardly politicians and judges remain in denial.

  • Trofim

    I think it’s wrong to suggest that Muslims are incapable of technological innovation. Look at this, for instance:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkCe7V6jQYU#t=10

  • AlecM

    One idea would be to restrict mosques to an area of the UK which would be part of the Caliphate and which would have to exist on its own economic potential.

    I suggest the outer Hebrides

    • Hole_in_One

      Why should the Hebrides suffer this? I suggest East London

  • GraveDave

    I know I’m not the first person to point out that the problem with Islam is that it’s a seventh-century religion which still carries on as though the subsequent 1,400 years of intellectual development never happened.

    You are joking me! They love YouTube and the internet and their I pads and Mercedes Benz and all the rest of it. It’s just the geniuses who invented them they despise, for not doing it for Mohammed instead.

  • Anthony

    “There is no point grumbling that the rich are undeserving because, unlike Allah, you do not have the full information. The preacher explained that Allah chose them to be rich for a reason, which we lack the divine wisdom to understand.”

    As it happens, I have heard respected Rabbis say exactly the same thing.

    Some of the other points of this article may be valid in isolation, but replace “Allah” with “God” and you have something that Christianity, Judaism and Islam agree on.

    e.g. “Who is rich? Those who are happy with their lot” is from Piket Avot ‘Ethics of our Fathers” a [Jewish] Talmudic text.

    Christianity, often goes much further, as if wealth is almost inherently sinful: “Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?”, Matthew 19:24.

    I’m no believer of any religion, but isn’t it usually Christianity that has the most counter-productive attitude to money. Just listen to our recent Arch Bishops.

  • mikewaller

    “Of course it seems quite wrong to us, schooled as we are in the values of western liberalism and in concepts like equality before the law.”

    The above seems a bit rich to me coming from one who frequently courts being seen as a latter day Lord Salisbury; however it is of critically important. Instead of banging on about the iniquities of the ECHR and the Human Rights Act we should be distilling “the values of western liberalism” into something along the lines of the Ten Commandments and routinely banging them into the heads of kids at school. Most important, any school which for any reason refused to endorse such values should have all State funding withdrawn.

  • Terry Field

    It must by now surely be glaringly obvious that the islamic horde in our midst are an absolute and potent danger. Their incompatibility should inevitably mean their continuation in their place of occupation is no longer acceptable.

  • AverageGuyInTheStreet

    Why are they here? Open-door immigration policy. Why do we have an open-door immigration policy? Because business leaders want one (it is only in the Financial Times that I have read editorial openly calling for completely unlimited and unfettered immigration). So we know the cause… what’s the solution?

    • UKSteve

      Well, it’s complicated.

      http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=85284

      Always puzzled me why UKIP had Digby Jones as main speaker at their Birmingham conference, when twice in the previous 12 months, he’d been on Question Time praising Bliar’s immigration policy!

      You know, this one.

      Only found out recently that the ECHR still stops all European countries from repatriating failed asylum seekers…to France and Germany! Switzerland are disobeying, and repatriating back to Italy!

  • JohnCrichton89

    Yes we would be doing the same thing. The biggest victims of mass immigration and multiculturalism are Muslims who were lead to our countries under this mantra, only too be told that they have to change something that they can’t.
    It’s the equivalent of asking me to be a theist, or visa versa for a theist.
    We have to influence their societal development, wherever they come from. And we can’t just drop our secular pluralistic culture and liberalism out of a plane, as the ‘Arab Spring’ showed us. With modern tech bleeding through to their societies we simply cant have them living in the dark ages with a suicidal mentality. So we let them create mini states in our countries, as a sort of cultural bridge, where we can help shape with criticism their growth and it can hopefully bleed back into their own societies.
    That’s what I try to convince myself the left is actually doing, it’s the only argument I can think of for wanting what we currently have. Being said, it’s asking a bit much from me. My humanistic comradery with others is a little overstretched when asked to accept a second dark ages with modern tech. I don’t want to go through the dark ages thank you very much. Nor do I want to live beside any demographic that is, as is forever the contrast drawn by apologists.

  • JoBennets

    The EDL have been saying the same thing for 5 years, what took you so long?

  • A Brit

    Well done the Spectator for printing James Delingpole’s article. It is about time there was an open discussion on the alien theology of Islam and what it bodes for Britain and Europe, without someone screaming ” Islamaphobia ” They – the followers of Mohammed have been trying to take over Europe since the 717 when Leo the Isaurian managed to defend Constantinople, and they have been trying to conquer us ever since. As Mosques and faith schools multiply we keep our heads in the sand, hoping ” Sharia Law ” will just go away but it wont and it is time we gave some serious thought to how we deal with the situation, if it is’nt too late already for the Christian west and it’s civilasation.

  • ohforheavensake

    You got all this from one sermon?

    Strange thing is, if someone tried to summarise British culture from one source- say, your articles, James- they’d conclude that we were all a bunch of anti-scientific neo-liberal idiots.

    • UncleTits

      What bit do you disagree with?

  • jesseventura2

    What do you think the result of a referendum would be asking if muslim immigrants should be returned to countries of origin?
    The muslims have not come up with one country that is not a hell hole?
    Fantasy allah is not working and you are running like dogs to infidel countries?

  • Mc

    Relating to Delingpole’s point about Islam’s absence of intellectual development, a Muslim colleague once claimed that Islam has been around since the beginning. I didn’t waste my time trying to disabuse her of her notions. Interestingly, she conveniently didn’t adhere to those Islamic norms that didn’t suit her.

  • Picquet

    So, you’re not celebrating vibrant diversity, then? I’d keep that quiet, or Abelard’s end will be as a welcome gift to you. It’s the Law.

  • WorthSayingAgain

    James, what did you expect? If you allow mass immigration they will bring their culture with them and keep it forever. England is now permanently racially and religiously segregated.

    I look forward with foreboding, like the Roman I see …….

  • UncleTits

    Yet David Cameron has publicly lamented the “sea of White Christian faces” that must be suffered by the imported Muslim colony and has publicly expressed a desire to see “many more Muslim men and women at the top of British businesses, many more Muslim soldiers in the highest level of command and, of course, more Muslims in our party, so it’s not just one Muslim in the Cabinet and one in the shadow cabinet, but British Muslims all across government in positions of leadership and authority.”

    • WorthSayingAgain

      We are building a funeral pyre for ourselves……..

      • licjjs

        Perhaps literally: see the comment I just made.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      I’ve got a white face but I’m sure not Christian.

    • Donafugata

      May I suggest to anyone wishing to see more Muslims that they take themselves off to an Islamic country since the UK is white and culturally Christian.

  • ohforheavensake

    Hello, James.

    Just came across this absolutely hilarious sort-of-correction from the website that pays your wages. You must be proud to be associated with such a responsible journalistic organisation-

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/breitbart-issues-best-correction-since-forever

    • So called “conservative” magazines such as Breitbart, The Washington Times and National Review are Marxist mouth pieces, parroting the “War on Terror” taking points coming out of the Kremlin. That’s why when KGB defector Major Anatoliy Golitsyn’s prophetic book came out in 1984, the “conservative” community either ignored it or trashed it.

  • “But suppose you believe with the adamantine conviction imparted by your friendly local Islamist cleric that Wahhabist/Deobandi Islam is the one true way and that all others are vile heresies, well you’d be doing exactly what our Muslim communities are doing now, would you not?”

    Doing what exactly? Like planting pools of blood on the sidewalk after partially chopping off the head of a soldier…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=woolwich+london+pictures&sa=X&es_sm=93&biw=1440&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=gaxgVIDqD8SigwTNrYPABg&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=no+blood+on+sidewalk+lee+rigby&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=sMn-A-JElKA5LM%253A%3Baa7u7gWnCueJAM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Ftheageofvolcanoes.files.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F05%252Fbs-4.jpg%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Ftheageofvolcanoes.wordpress.com%252F2013%252F08%252F11%252Fa-russian-reversal-of-murder-most-ghastly-in-brazil%252F%3B620%3B413

    Oops, MI5 forgot the pools of blood!

    Or forgetting to cut the hair from the right side of Malala Yousafzai’s head…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=woolwich+london+pictures&sa=X&es_sm=93&biw=1440&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=gaxgVIDqD8SigwTNrYPABg&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=malala+yousafzai+hospital+&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=Q3CGgmyKlC88VM%253A%3BDLT7hE7zBT69_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.newsprintnow.net%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2013%252F10%252FMalala-Yousafzai-1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fnewsprintnow.net%252Fnews%252F2013%252F10%252F08%252Fmalala-yousafzai-death-didnt-want-to-kill-me%252F%3B1963%3B2937

    By the way, Malala was shot in the forehead, right above the right eye, so where’s the wound…

    https://www.google.com/search?q=woolwich+london+pictures&sa=X&es_sm=93&biw=1440&bih=809&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=gaxgVIDqD8SigwTNrYPABg&ved=0CB0QsAQ#tbm=isch&q=malala+yousafzai+hospital+&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=-OCA-CM5k97J_M%253A%3BqPHm60wOrr6tqM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F2.bp.blogspot.com%252F-JWs0m0YFUkw%252FUILCZZ7nEWI%252FAAAAAAAAAAc%252FXf7oXl9jG-8%252Fs320%252Fmalala%252Bno%252Bcomments.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.davidicke.com%252Fforum%252Farchive%252Findex.php%252Ft-232368.html%3B320%3B289

    The above means that the so-called “War on Terror” (or “War on Islam”) is a USSR & Allies-tasked operation being carried out by the co-opted governments of the West, the purpose being to (1) destroy the prominence of the West in the eyes of the world, where the West is seen (i) invading nations without cause; (ii) causing chaos around the globe; and (iii) killing over one-million civilians and boasting of torture; (2) close off non-Russian supplies of oil for export, thereby increasing the price of oil, the higher price allowing oil exporting Russia to maintain economic stability while she modernizes and increases her military forces; (3) destroy the United States Armed Forces via the never-ending “War on Terror”; the ultimate purpose of the aforementioned to (4) bring about the demise of the United States in the world, opening up a political void to be filled by a new pan-national entity composed of Europe and Russia (replacing the European Union), a union “From the Atlantic to Vladivostok”; which will (5) see the end of NATO.

    The fraudulent “collapse” of the USSR (and East Bloc) couldn’t have been pulled off until both political parties in the United States (and political parties elsewhere in the West) were co-opted by Moscow & Allies, which explains why verification of the “collapse” was never undertaken by the West, such verification being (1) a natural administrative procedure (since the USSR wasn’t occupied by Western military forces); and (2) necessary for the survival of the West. Recall President Reagan’s favorite phrase, “Trust, but verify”.

    Notice that not one political party in the West demanded verification of the collapse of the USSR, and the media failed to alert your attention to this fact, including the “alternative” media. When determining whether the “former” USSR is complying with arms control treaties, what does the United States do to confirm compliance? Right, the United States sends into the “former” USSR investigative teams to VERIFY compliance, yet when it’s the fate of the West that’s at stake should the collapse of the USSR be a ruse, what does the United States do to confirm the collapse? Nothing!

    It gets worse–the “freed” Soviets and West also never (1) de-Communized the Soviet Armed Forces of its Communist Party officer corps, which was 90% officered by Communist Party members; and (2) arrested and detained the 6-million vigilantes that assisted the Soviet Union’s Ministry of the Interior and police control the populations of the larger cities during the period of “Perestroika” (1986-1991)!

    There can be no collapse of the USSR (or East Bloc nations) without…

    Verification, De-Communization and De-mobilization.

    The West never verified the collapse of the USSR because no collapse occurred, since if a real collapse had occurred the West would have verified it, since the survival of the West depends on verification. Conversely, this proves that the political parties of the West were co-opted by Marxists long before the fraudulent collapse of the USSR, since the survival of the West depends on verification.

    • AJAX

      If this is the case why did the Russians withdraw governmentally, militarily & administratively from all those European Eastern Bloc countries & Asiatic Soviet states like Kazakhstan?

      • “If this is the case why did the Russians withdraw governmentally, militarily & administratively from all those European Eastern Bloc countries & Asiatic Soviet states like Kazakhstan?

        Because the Communists in those nations (new nations for USSR republics) are in control. That’s why the Ukraine erupted in February 2014, where for the first time statues of Lenin were actually destroyed. The only statues to Lenin that were destroyed in the “former” USSR occurred in February 2014, when hundreds were toppled…

        http://leninstatues.ru/leninopad

        …due to the weakened security apparatus within the nation, where most of the Ukrainian Army was in either Syria or Iraq, or preparing to enter Iraq from Turkey, pretending to be Muslim “Jihadists” (Islamic State). The Islamic State “Jihadists” attired in Ninja uniforms, wearing the silly balaclava masks, are the Ukrainians, hiding their pale Caucasian/Slavic identities under those masks…

        http://www.cp24.com/polopoly_fs/1.1920657!/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.jpg

        Those are professional soldiers cradling their weapons in the military stand down position, with trigger finger positioned just outside the trigger guard.

        Not one statue to Lenin, nor any other Communist “hero”, was destroyed in Russia after the Soviets were “freed” of Communist oppression back in late 1991*…

        “Almost every town in Russia has a prominent statue of Vladimir Ilyich Lenin, father of the October Revolution…”

        http://www.saint-petersburg.com/monuments/ploshchad-lenina/

        …and those statues that were taken down in Russia, and other republics that make up the USSR, are safely hidden in parks or museums, to be eventually returned to their former locations after the defeat of the West.

        The only statues to Lenin (and other Communist heroes) taken down in Russia were located in those areas where Western tourists visit the most. Those statues were carefully lifted and relocated, in the case of Moscow, to Fallen Monument Park…

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Monument_Park

        The same subterfuge is taking place in other republics that make up the USSR, where statues to Lenin (and Marx) taken down are hidden, not destroyed, in the case of Tallinn, Estonia, at the Maarjamaë Palace…

        http://nienkebos.wordpress.com/category/maarjamae-palace/

        …and in Lithuania, statues to Lenin and Marx are located at Grūtas Park, which also incredulously has, now get this, a Soviet theme park, replete with “…a mini-zoo and cafes, all containing relics of the Soviet era. On special occasions actors stage re-enactments of various Soviet-sponsored festivals”!…

        http://www.goworldtravel.com/travel-lithuania-grutas-park-reminder-of-dark-past/

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gr%C5%ABtas_Park

        • AJAX

          5th Column Soviet Communists are governing Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Georgia, the Baltic States, East Germany, etc.?

          • “5th Column Soviet Communists are governing Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Rumania, Bulgaria, Georgia, the Baltic States, East Germany, etc ….?”

            In fact, the West too, and you don’t need the word “Soviet”. They’re simply Marxists. There were no Soviets when the West allowed Bolshevik Russia to survive.

          • AJAX

            You think Poland, Lithuania, Georgia, Latvia, Eastern Germany, etc. are currently being governed by Marxist Administrations?

  • AJAX

    The problem here isn’t religion, it’s ethnicity.

    • “The problem here isn’t religion, it’s ethnicity.”

      The problem is the Marxist co-option of the West…

      Take a look at what the Russian government ordered the Russian Ministry of Defense to keep on the masthead of its official newspaper…see if you notice something odd…

      http://www.redstar.ru/

      “Krasnaya Zvezda” is Russian for “Red Star”, the official newspaper of Soviet and later Russian Ministry of Defense. The paper’s official designation is, “Central Organ of the Russian Ministry of Defense.” Note the four Soviet emblems next to the still existing Soviet era caption titled “Red Star”(!), one of the Soviet emblems including the image of Lenin!

      Then for Russian Naval vessels, take a look at the following photo from 2013, and note what’s still appended to the bows (enlarge picture)…

      http://flashtrafficblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/08/9225/

      See the Soviet era Red Star still attached to the port bow, near the anchor!

      Now, take a look at the Soviet nationality roundel on a Russian military aircraft in 2009:

      http://www.airliners.net/photo/Russia—Air/Sukhoi-Su-25SM/1606418/L/

      Take a look at what’s still on Aeroflot aircraft…

      http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.airplane-pictures.net/images/uploaded-images/2013-8/31/316500.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/316500/vp-bdn-aeroflot-airbus-a319/&h=853&w=1200&sz=342&tbnid=LpEalOG0f8GrcM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=142&zoom=1&usg=__G489DWC7zsP5bnmGg5-Pi0QB8xs=&docid=xUpoGn9FHxnMDM&sa=X&ei=evRRUtGuJNGs4APLsoDICg&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA

      Note the Communist emblem of the hammer & sickle stenciled on the Aeroflot aircraft’s fuselage! Imagine the Swastika still on Lufthansa commercial aircraft!

      Now you know why up until 2013 the “electorates” of Russia, Ukraine and Georgia were only “electing” for president Soviet era vanguard Communist Party member Quislings, except for the first president of Georgia, Zviad Gamsakhurdia, a true dissident who didn’t even last nine months in office before he was ousted in a coup, later said to have committed “suicide”. Zviad Gamsakhurdia was a failed test run to see if a non-Communist Party member president could be controlled.

      • AJAX

        Interesting & well informed post, & yes I was also surprised to see the T-50 trials flying recently with the Red Soviet Star emblem on its fuselage, as well as the Russian Bear bombers that are flying around European continental airspace threateningly right now displaying it, & it does pose ?s about why Russia is continuing with these emblems from a disgraced & discredited regime if she has rejected it after its bankruptcy & collapse in 1989.

        But as interesting as that is, …. what’s it got to do with the Indian sub-continental city of Birmingham? =/

        • “…why Russia is continuing with these emblems from a disgraced & discredited regime if she has rejected it after its bankruptcy & collapse in 1989.”

          That’s precisely what my comments talk to–the collapse of the USSR was a strategic ruse, and those Soviet nationality emblems remain in-place to remind non-officers of this fact. Did you also notice the masthead for the official newspaper of the Russian Ministry of Defense? Here it is again…

          http://www.redstar.ru/

          “Krasnaya Zvezda” is Russian for “Red Star”, the official newspaper of Soviet and later Russian Ministry of Defense. The paper’s official designation is, “Central Organ of the Russian Ministry of Defense.” Note the four Soviet emblems next to the still existing Soviet era caption titled “Red Star”(!), one of the Soviet emblems including the image of Lenin!

          “But as interesting as that is, …. what’s it got to do with the Indian sub-continental city of Birmingham? =/”

          It has to do with the article’s subtle message–that Islam poses a threat to the West! It doesn’t, since Islam is being used by the co-opted West to divert attention from the still existing USSR.

          Did you read my comment below? The one that begins with, “But suppose you believe with the adamantine conviction…”?

  • Very very good, James.

  • Shorne

    As I have posted before I was a Probation Officer for 30 years and spent 13 of those years working full-time in a prison with an office on the wing where the sex offenders were held. I am open to correction but I suspect I know more about child sex offences than most (all?) of the others commenting here as I spent many hours reading CPS evidence and such things as Victim Impact Statements and interviewing the offenders themselves.
    Without detracting for one second from how appalling the events in Rotherham and other places were I am concerned that the almost perverse glee with which some are expounding their dog whistle politics (“all the sex offenders were Asian so all Asians are sex offenders”) could detract from the real circumstances of child sex offences in the UK namely over 80% of the offenders are white and 90% of the victims are abused by somebody they know.
    Nobody for example mentions that the chief CPS lawyer who led the successful prosecutions was of Pakistani origin.
    Also nobody mentions that the recent Police and Crime Commissioner elections in South Yorkshire (includes Rotherham) where Farage said he was ‘putting his tanks on Labour’s lawn’ and used the slogan “There are 1,400 reasons why you should not trust Labour again,” was won by Labour on the first ballot. One of the 1400 victims, a 25-year-old who was groomed, raped and passed between a group of older men from the age of 12, criticised Ukip’s campaign. The role of candidates should be to “put Rotherham back together”, she told the Independent: “People shouldn’t be making such comments and using it to get themselves into high positions. That’s very disrespectful to us victims.”

    • Ambientereal

      Well, the point is that we are obliged to cope with “our” criminals but not with the foreign ones. In fact, we should speak about rates of criminality per inhabitant, and there we will see another reality. Between foreigners of other cultures, rates are much higher, and it is also no consolation that the prosecutor, the police officer or even the judge are of pakistani origin. It actually makes things worse.

      • Shorne

        The latest figures I could find for the Prison Population (2013)
        White 73.8%, Asia or Asian British 7.9%
        Christian/No religion 79.2%, Muslim 13.1%
        BME Staff in the Criminal Justice system Police 4.8%, CPS 14.9%,
        Judiciary 4.2%, NOMS 6.0% and Probation 14.1% respectively.

        Asian Population of the UK (2012) 5.87% in many regions it is less than 1%.

    • Mike

      We can all play with statistics and your 13 years as a PO dealing with sex offenders hardly gives you any real knowledge of the motivation behind Rotherham, Derby, Rochdale, Manchester & Oxford to name just 5 cities that have suffered with ‘Asian’ sex grooming in the last 10 years.

      But first, your stats !

      Firstly, if 80% of sex offenders are white, that implies that most are family member pedophiles abusing young children of both sexes. That leaves 20% of your prison population who are non white and its likely that at least half of them are non Muslim. That 10% who are from the Islamic faith are disproportionately based as a percentage of the population as a whole. They seem to commit at least twice as many sex offenses as others groups and rather than being just a family member they abuse, their preference is for main stream gang rape.

      Secondly, the report into Rotherham clearly spelled out that due to political correctness, the authorities deliberately and knowingly ignored the plight of these poor girls for over 10 years. Had these criminals been apprehended as they should have been, the ratio of non white offenders and more specifically those from the Islamic faith would have soared in comparison.

      The fact that a Labour Police and Crime Commissioner was re-elected is hardly surprising given the ethnic mix in Rotherham as turkeys don’t vote for Xmas and the UKIP white vote was overwhelmed by those wishing to ignore what happened.

      In a nut shell, I find your post deeply offensive to those 1400 girls who were not raped by a family member but were raped many times by different men in a deliberate and orchestrated manner worthy of Japanese troops in China in the 1930’s or the ‘comfort’ women of Korea. The enormity of this criminal enterprise obviously escapes you as does the statistics of those who committed these crimes. It wasn’t an individual who was perverted it was an organised gang acting out their prophets teachings.

    • Mike

      Seems my last post was removed but lets try again.

      Firstly, despite your ‘experience’ in child sex abuses, surely you must see there is a world of difference between a pedophile family member abusing one or two kids in the family (usually just one) and the wholesale organized criminal activities carried out by mainly Pakistani men. The sexual abuses carried out by family members although terrible do not in most cases involve penetrative sex unlike what happened in Rotherham. Both are obviously sickening but the scale of the latter is beyond comprehension with petrol dousing and other threats.

      Secondly, had the authorities pursued these criminal acts when they first started rather than ignore them for PC reasons, a much greater number of non white offenders would now be languishing in prison rather than the small percentage you are claiming.

      Thirdly, your perverse claim that many are saying (“all the sex offenders were Asian so all Asians are sex offenders”) is patently wrong as the opposite is really the case. In fact, you even have the ethnic group wrong in your quote as most will call it as it is rather than air brush out the real culprits by labeling every ethnic group in Asia as potential rapists. The inquiry into Rotherham spelled out who the main criminals were and I don’t need to remind you that.

      When it comes to ‘excusing’ Islamic criminals of any offence, whether its sex grooming, gang rape, Jihadist killing Lee Rigby, attacking the Canadian parliament or 3 police officers in New York, the PC establishment goes out of its way to deny any connection to Islam and pretends its just your regular criminal at work.

      Just what was the point you were trying to make here other than to dilute the obscenity that happens in many of our cities due to mass immigration.

    • English Majority

      You disgust me.

      The issue is that it was ASIAN MEN RAPING OUR WHITE GIRLS.

      And the turn out for Police Commissioner was 14%.

      • Shorne

        What really disgusts you and your kind is literally having to face those things you can never deal with, namely facts.
        I said the events in Rotherham were appalling and as I also said I have read the harrowing accounts given by victims in similar cases.
        Lets look at some of your comments,

        ‘Our white girls’ many of them were nobody’s girls in the sense that they were in care and in many ways nobody cared about them.
        ‘14% turn out’ if the UKIP candidate had been elected you would have seen it as a triumph for democracy.
        ‘Far more interested in locking up people for non-existent racism’
        Five minutes research showed, from the most recently available figures, that the South Yorkshire CPS only prosecuted 5% of the offences the Police identified as racist.
        Also you have totally ignored the rather plaintive request from the victim to stop exploiting her past for you own ends, now that disgusts me.

    • sebastian2

      In this case 100% of the victims were white “christians” and 100% of the offenders finally brought to trial were “asian” mohammedans. This was organised abuse, selective of victims (age, ethnicity, “religion”), and conspiratorial. It was more than abuse, actually; it was serial sexual slavery of a particular kind. That puts it in a sordid league of its own.

  • beenzrgud

    As far as I can see Muslims don’t really have any sort of loyalty to their countries, well certainly not in comparison to their adherence to their religion. At some point in the future I expect the UK and the rest of Europe to be overrun with them. When this happens I expect that the minority population (us) will be subject to their laws, namely sharia plus various cultural practices. I certainly don’t expect they will adopt our liberal laws, there’s no indication that they will anyway. Just think about it, no more going out on the piss, no more holidays based on Christianity, having to watch all your p’s and q’s in case you accidentally blaspheme. In some ways it feels just like when we were taken into the EU. We were lied to, or at the very least mislead, about where we were actually going. All the liberals making excuses MUST know where we are headed. To think that Muslims will adopt our ways is delusional, they haven’t anywhere else they are in the majority.

  • Charles_Dilkes

    Sorry to play devils advocate but that Islamic ‘know thy place’ little dictum isn’t all that different from predestination theology of orthodox Calvinists in the 17th century: the elect and reprobates.

    And you’re massively over egging the importance of Abelard. Suggesting that he ‘invented’ rationalism or rational enquiry is absurd: St. Thomas Aquinas’ theological work is pure Aristotle rationalism. ‘Logic’ was THE definition of Scholastic enquiry of Medieval intellectuals.

    • EnosBurrows

      Abelard lived before Aquinas, so he could easily have influenced him.

      The Sic et Non method, however, was already in use in in legal teaching in Bologna *before* it was applied to theology.

      • Charles_Dilkes

        Any evidence he influenced him?

        Aquinas is pure Aristotle.

        • EnosBurrows

          I don’t quite know why I am having this debate, but,

          1. Aquinas is, you are right, most famous for “taming” Aristotle for Catholic philosophy and theology. However Aquinas’ basic assumptions remain Augustinian and Neoplatonic.

          2. Abelard’s work was not used in teaching, but a work based on it – The Four Books of Sentences by Peter Lombard – was used. Peter Lombard took the basic approach of Abelard (placing conflicting statements from authoritative sources next to each other) but provided a solution. Later university teachers taught by making (and sometimes publishing) commentaries on the Books of Sentences. Aquinas was one of the many who did this.

          • Charles_Dilkes

            We’re not debating anything.

            Authours tend to have habit of embellishing historical figures simply because they’re currently reading a book on them. I think Dellingpole has done just that with this Abelard fella.

    • Cincinnatus

      isn’t all that different from predestination theology of orthodox Calvinists in the 17th

      True but this is the 21st century.

  • licjjs

    Could someone please explain why the MSM has been so completely silent about the fate of two young Catholics in Pakistan a week or so ago? This young mother and father were subjected to unspeakable horror, culminating in being thrown into a furnace

    “Someone made the accusation that public opinion was more scandalized by the investigation on the TV show, “Report”, on the source of the goose down used in making expensive ski jackets, namely, that the feathers were plucked from geese four times a year, causing the geese a great deal of pain—than by the fate of these Christians.”

    http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/calls-for-pakistan-to-protect-citizens-arise-in-wake-of-mob-killing-43648/

    It is utterly unacceptable that we, having such a huge Pakistani section in our country, should not publish this on the front pages of ALL our newspapers and as the leading item in our news programmes. I was incensed to read of Yasmin Alibhai-Brown’s latest tirade about the ‘resurgence of racism’ here in the UK while she, along with all her colleagues in the press and news, ignore such atrocities in her home country. This is not the only case; there is the ongoing case of Asia Bibi, condemned to death on the say-so of someone at a well.

    So much for our enrichment by islam.

    • Jackthesmilingblack

      “Could someone please explain why the MSM has been so completely silent about the fate of two young Catholics in Pakistan a week or so ago?”
      Bottom line: You don’t have a free press, Britisher pals.

    • sebastian2

      No respectable blogger stoops readily to personal insult but, really, Yasmin Alibhai-Brown is a very shallow, jaundiced, single issue prattler. Living proof of reincarnation, since no-one could be so stupid in just one lifetime.

    • Cincinnatus

      Could someone please explain why the MSM has been so completely silent
      about the fate of two young Catholics in Pakistan a week or so ago?

      At The Guardian and the BBC the mantra is “Islam is a/the religion of peace” and no report that contradicts this mantra shall be permitted.

  • English Aborigine

    Meet the new pervert

    Same as the old pervert

    We won’t get fooled again

  • Anthorny

    Unfortunately Britain cannot now disislamify. Also with current Muslim birth rates and the import of ready-made large Muslim families, Britain will be a majority Muslim country in 20 or so years.

    This means that the indigenous population must simply get ready for Islamic rule. Some advice and tips therefore are:

    1. Learn not to be squeamish and accept all meat must be Halal, where the animal is killed without stunning in a slow and agonizing death.

    2. Learn not be squeamish regarding hand or foot removal punishments for theft.

    3. Learn not to be squeamish when witnessing beheadings for more serious crimes.

    4. Don’t waste funds on education for daughters as no form of female career can exist under Islamic rule

    4. Start to reduce alcohol consumption in order that you are teetotal by the time Britain is under Sharia law.

    5. Prepare daughters for the concept of their “ownership” by males and for forced marriage by dissuading them from reading western “love stories”.

    6. Prepare for your own possible murder, as for Apostacy (leaving Islam) the penalty is death.

  • sebastian2

    Yesterday (Remembrance Sunday) I had a brief chat with my local C of E Vicar who’d hosted the local Bishop (a very senior one actually) to the service. Wondering why the Bishop and colleagues were so silent about mohammedism in Britain and elsewhere these days, I was told that a) they wouldn’t be saying anything; b) they don’t want to inflame the situation; and c) dialogue is best.

    I’m still struggling to calm down.

    • Donafugata

      Since its inception, Islam has been a political movement which masquerades as a religion so as to obtain special status.

      Why can’t our Christian clergy see through this lie?

      • sebastian2

        I agree, adding only that it’s an imperial political movement that established through conquest, a huge empire.

        As to your question, I really don’t know; but this blindness adds nothing to the clergy’s reputation. They cannot see it and, so it seems, will not. The one who did, Michael Nazir Ali – was promptly sidelined.

  • English Majority

    I feel your fear here, James. You’re resigned to the rancid, filthy sh*t that’s happening all around us, and closing in. You’re scared to speak your mind properly, because you know it only takes one sentence to have your life destroyed by the sneering Third World immigrant hordes that have invaded and colonised Birmingham, Bradford, London and many other places.

    British people built every city, street, town, house and road in Britain; now its all being destroyed by masses of Muslim and African immigrants who already have entire continents full entirely of their own kind. They kill us, rape our women, cost us 10’s of billions of pounds a year and they’ve crippled our quality of life, as well as our futures.

    I should say England, because its England that’s been destroyed.

    The hatred and rage is in my bone and blood.

    • Donafugata

      Hear, hear.

      The cancer that began with the moral relativism of the 1960s has metastasised throughout and weakened society at every level.

      This has created ideal conditions for the pernicious, supremacist death cult to flourish.

      Those in authority are also in denial and the vast majority of the population are retail zombies and Internet addicted narcissists.

      We need to wake up and put up some serious resistance to islam starting with the equivalent of the Nuremberg Laws that make the practice of Islam virtually impossible.

  • tomgreaves

    Islam recognises no boundaries. It’s sees itself as a global religion and its caliphates in the making are not influenced by the national cultures of the lands they have set their sights on. The UK has not understood the gravity of its so called political correctness, which refuses to acknowledge that those innocent looking Muslims may well turn out to seriously undermine the British culture just as this article suggests. The dreamers and the idealists have walked this nation into a nightmare that has only just begun to unfold.

  • Bonkim

    A religion more dangerous than Ebola.

    • red2black

      You mean Football. Who does Ebola play for?

      • Bonkim

        Caliphates XI

        • red2black

          The same team as Kalashnikov.

  • Anthorny

    With majority Muslim Britain only a decade or two (at most) away, practical parents should be preparing their kids for this inevitability. They will be failing as parents if they do not teach their children to:

    >Never drink alcohol;
    >Don’t waste time on education if a daughter;
    >Be prepared for your marriage to be arranged;
    >Accept the barbaric torture of animals through Halal slaughter;
    >Don’t bother voting as the move to a theocracy will mean there won’t be any more elections;
    >Forget the Judeo-Christian tenet of Love Thy Neighbour and embrace Death to the Infidel;
    >Turn a blind eye to child abuse;
    >Learn not to be squeamish about hand and foot amputation as punishment for theft, stoning to death for adulterous wives and beheading for more serious crimes;
    >Prepare for their own possible execution,as the punishment for Apostasy is death.

    I’m sure there’s a longer list of essential preparations.

  • flippit

    And digressing a bit I know, but this surely must be of concern to all those blithely talking of regional assemblies and separating England within itself just to make a federal UK work (at the moment England to big for that). Imagine how it could be if mini-states are created.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Britain’s immigration policy: No more bloody Muslims, and deport those child-raping Pakistanis. As an aside, how long a pause can you leave between Paki and stani before you’re considered a racist?

    • Donafugata

      Strangely, no-one is considered racist for using the term”Brit” which is only the truncated form of British.

      Geese and ganders come to mind.

  • Gareth Mailer

    we wouldn’t be so shocked and surprised by the existence of schemes like Operation Trojan Horse and the parallel sharia courts springing up all over Britain.

    Mass immigration, all over Europe, has been an unmitigated disaster.

    It’s 17,000 forced marriages and 6,000 cases of female genital mutilation every year, it’s the enforced subservience of women, it’s rocket attacks against our police forces, it’s mass riots in Stockholm, it’s the publication of a cartoon cited as the catalyst for mass riots all over the world, it’s purported electoral fraud in London Boroughs, it’s the perceived inferiority of the white race and subsequent molestation of 1,400 white girls, it’s terror plots against our Monarch, it’s the denouncement of secularism, it’s the 7/7 bombings, it’s Lee Rigby, it’s attacks against The Canadian National Parliament, it’s British Jihadists, it’s leafleting campaigns calling for the imposition of Sharia Law, it’s Sharia courts and the appeasement of those seeking to undermine the rule of law, it’s advocating tribalism and discrimination against the majority, it’s white flight from our nation’s capital to the tune of 600,000 people in 10 years etc.

    It’s a disaster zone fuelled by apathy. It’s the manufacturing, by our political elite, of a “morally superior” social movement which preaches tolerance of the intolerant.

    But when staring down the barrel of a shotgun armed with progressive rhetoric we quiver at the idea of looking them in the eye and challenging them to pull the trigger, just to see if they can argue against our version of morality.

    In a culture which deems nationalism antiquated, prioritises diversity over solidarity and relies upon an MSM more concerned about omitting and filtering than reporting the unvarnished truth, we’re too meek to foster the required collective spirit, or an emotional attachment to our taken for granted political institutions, to do anything about it.

  • Liberty

    It cannot last. The immigrant generation will obey to avoid ostracism, the next generation will go along with them or be stricken with existential angst and give up, go Islamist or keep mum. The next generation will test the boundaries and find them flexible. The following generation will do what they like – mostly – which will be lip service to the faith of their fathers and do what the rest of their generation – Muslim or not – do. All this should – must – be aided and abetted by the enforcement of justice for women, freeing employers/schools/public buildings/sports grounds/etc not to only accept people who dress in a non-threatening way, children’s secular education, learn English and the need to get a job and not too many of them within the Muslim community.

    • Cincinnatus

      The next generation will test the boundaries and find them flexible.

      Already happening. Unfortunately it the boundaries of British society that are being tested and found to be “flexible”. Just today Rowan Williams has said that there is no need to “panic” about Muslim primary school teachers wearing the full-face veil in class.

      • Donafugata

        And the meek shall inherit the earth if that is all right with everybody else.

        Islam is political, supremacist and militant, Christianity doesn’t stand a chance.

        Traditional British values are being exploited in the way Christianity is.
        With the help of greedy human rights lawyers, freedom of speech, habeus corpus, refuge and asylum are now shamelessly exploited by the most barbaric culture on the face of the earth.

        Our once great strengths have become our Achilles heel.

        • Ordinaryman

          And the meek shall inherit the Earth —– if they don’t get killed in the rush.

    • Bonkim

      but many Muslim youngsters are much more bigoted than their parents that came from the Commonwealth countries – and they are also well informed in modern science and technology and social media to work effectively for their bigoted cause.

  • Chris Hobson

    The cool Brittania guardianista baby boomers of the 90’s Notting Hill/islington set have a lot to answer for.

  • Sean L

    The quote about being resigned to one’s lot is somewhat missing the point and could just as easily come from an orthodox Christian or Jewish standpoint: meek inheriting the earth; camels through eyes of needles: there are any number of biblical quotes extolling the virtues of poverty. Didn’t Jesus himself personally expel the money changers? Preaching equanimity to the poor would at one time have been a job description for many an English vicar. The issue with Islam in this country is primarily one of allegiance. And with Islam in general, its totalistic nature; that it recognises no secular space. As distinct from the Christian separation of powers: or as Jesus put it “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.” Thus Christendom in principle allowed for free enquiry. Though in practice that freedom was hard won. . . Otherwise I’d have thought it’s to the Muslims’ credit if they’re preaching humility. Rather that than the prevalent standard issue self-entitled something for nothing attitude. . .

    • Donafugata

      It is one thing to have to develop techniques to get Jehovah’s Witnesses off your doorstep, in fact, it can be rather fun.
      They try but eventually these door-to-door salesmen do shove off.
      Islam is different, it is supremacist, global and militant and if you do not submit you are dead, there is no alternative.

      Terrorism, proselytising and demographic invasion are the three main methods from which every Muslim can choose to bring “pi$$” to the world, inshallah, NOT.

      • Bonkim

        JVs are only doing what the Bible teaches you to do – go out and spread the word of God – what Christian missionaries did and still do all over the world – trying to steer the Heathens towards the rightful path – so no joke there. You life is at stake.

  • john

    My name is yurich jerry am from USA. i want to use this opportunity to thank my great doctor who really made my life a pleasurable one today. This great man DR.Ogboni brought my husband back to me, i had three lovely kids for my husband, about four years ago i and my husband has been into one quarrel or the other until he finally left me for one lady. i felt my life was over and my kids thought they would never see their father again. i tried to be strong just for the kids but i could not control the pains that torments my heart, my heart was filled with sorrows and pains because i was really in love with my husband. Every day and night i think of him and always wish he would come back to me, until one day i met a good friend of mine that was also in a situation like me but her problem was her ex-boyfriend who she had an unwanted pregnancy for and he refused to take responsibility and dumped her. she told me that mine was a small case and that i should not worry about it at all, so i asked her what was the solution to my problems and she gave me this great man email address. i was doubting if this man was the solution, so i contacted this great man and he told me what to do and i deed them all, he told me to wait for just two day and that my husband will come crawling on his kneels just for forgiveness so i faithfully deed what this great man asked me to do and for sure after two days i heard a knock on the door, in a great surprise i saw him on his kneels and i was speechless, when he saw me, all he did was crying and asking me for forgiveness, from that day, all the pains and sorrows in my heart flew away,since then i and my husband and our lovely kids are happy.that’s why i want to say a big thank you to DR.Ogboni spiritual temple. This great man made me to understand that there is no problem on earth that has no solution so please if you know that you have this same problem or any problem that is similar, i will advise you to come straight to this great man. you can email him at: ogbonispelitemple@hotmail.com ,, . , . ,.

    • Gareth Mailer

      My name is Apu Nahasapeemapetilon. I am Prince of far-eastern African state mere mortals never have heard of.

      I was travelling on this contraption native peoples call buses to be nearer to the people when I lost my gold card and couldn’t find my way to back my gold chariot.

      Can you send me £10,000 so I make my way home and fulfil my promise to my Father and ruler, King Jaffe? In return, my family will bestow upon you all the riches of our land; you may live in our palace, in a state of perpetual happiness.

      • Bonkim

        Post your address and bank account details.

  • Mrs.JosephineHydeHartley

    ‘Is it any wonder that Islamic countries perform so poorly in the economic league tables when their religious leaders seek to destroy the single quality most likely to encourage economic growth: aspiration?’

    Is this supposed to be a rhetorical question? i suppose the answer could be both yes and no.. So yes, one could wonder whether Islamic countries that aspire towards the encouragement of economic growth exist at all, though of course their leaders will surely have to be well versed in the language of globaleconomics/ capitalism just to be able to get along in this world.

    ..And/or it’s no wonder Islamic countries perform poorly in the economic league, since they’re in another league altogether.

    And western or otherwise, anyone can see it’s stupid to think of aspiration as the preserve of economic development alone.

    • Donafugata

      The summation of Islamic territory would be nothing if it wasn’t for the oil beneath the desert and its extraction and the wealth generated is entirely due to western technology.

  • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

    What gives these religious people the right to pretend that they know what the Gods state more than anybody else ?

    • Bonkim

      Ask the pope.

      • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

        Of course the Pope believes he has a direct contact to God but more to the point millions of Romans agree with him.Having said that the current Pope seems more connected to real life than most.

        • Bonkim

          Are there more Catholics than Muslims in the world and is God swayed by the numbers voting for him/her?

          Ultimately Muslims believe theirs is the one true God and Catholics don’t even bring their God Jehovah in their belief – only through God’s representative on earth who is replaced periodically – think about it – who would you believe? a God and his Prophet from antiquity and their unaltered message in a single language or a spokesman for God that is elected every so often and a message that is ever changing depending on the political connection with fallible people.

          For me all religion is hog-wash and irrelevant to address the very serious challenges of over-population and fast depleting resources on earth and impending end of humanity as we know it in the not too distant future.

          • disqus_9I6C4azbIA

            It is more than hogwash, religion is a very real threat to humanity.

          • Bonkim

            Yes – but people will worship stone pillars until the end.

  • George Orwell

    The only possible hope we have is to vote Ukip

    • red2black

      Stop quoting from ‘Animal Farm’ and write something new. (tee hee)

  • ConstablePlod

    As Winston Churchill once opined:
    “They’re either at your feet, or at your throat.”

  • rockylives

    Of course the general sentiments expressed in this article are correct, but this section: “Whether you are rich or poor, the preacher told us, it is imperative that you should accept your lot because this is what Allah intended for you,” did bring to mind some lines from a much loved C of E hymn:

    The rich man in his castle,
    The poor man at his gate,
    God made them high and lowly,
    And ordered their estate.

    All things bright and beautiful,
    All creatures great and small,
    All things wise and wonderful,
    The Lord God made them all.

    • Bonkim

      Where is the surprise – religion was invented to keep everyone in their place and bring harmony to society.

  • UK is doomed

  • MrJones

    “because if we did, we wouldn’t be so shocked and surprised”

    Exactimundo.

  • James

    Equality before the law? Oh James, where have you been all this time? It’s a nice concept but without juries to keep judges honest, then the law is merely a tool for rapacious thieves. Dickens sussed it out years ago in Bleak House.

  • TDrowry

    For over a thousand years the Muslims of Middle East and North Africa had slaves ( inc many captured Europeans) to do all their manual work- which was seen as demeaning for Muslims.

  • avloppsbrunn

    Good article, but to leave out Black Sabbath when mentioning Birmingham bands is unfair.

    • red2black

      Totally discredits everything the man says as far as I’m concerned. (tee hee)
      All Hail The Godfathers Of Doom!

  • nfw

    You said “culture” and islam in the same breath. I just don’t equate “culture” with women being forced to wear tents; having to have male permission to do anything; women being treated as breeding stock without rights; that rape gangs of white girls are okay. I just love all the “but Hitler was a Christian” mob below. So what? Two wrongs do not a right make. Hitler might have been born of parents who practised the Catholic faith but does not mean he either accepted it or believed in it. There is an automatic assumption (sic) by some of parental rights to enforce beliefs on children. No Muslimism is all about those who can read and remember excerpts of a book put together, note I do not say written, a couple of hundred years after the great blokes death. Imagine today if you tried to tell people to do what this alleged “religion of peace” tells people to do? You would be locked away, as the tellers and purveyors of such racist, misogynistic and envious fairy stories should be.

  • nancy Alfred

    A couple of weeks ago I was in a dark period in my life, the man I love to bits had gone off with someone else, that was when I was told about this Esango Priest. Well he told me he could see that we would get back together that gave me hope, and he was right, because this week we have moved in with each other and we are so happy. A big thank you to Esango Priest. If you are in need of an angel please get in touch with my Esango Priest via email:esangopriest@gmail.com, esangopriest@hotmail.com and you can also reach me on http://www.esangopriestspelltemple.webs.com

  • Michael H Kenyon

    It’s even worse than this. Islam has institutionalised ignorance in the notion that innovations (bid’ah) are suspect or even haram. Ostensibly this applies to matters of faith, but given the rule-bound nature of how to live, overlaps into most other developments. The Sunni/ Wahabi/ Salafist fundamentalists are particularly driven by this. Boko Haram and the half-witted homicidal proselytisers in our Muslim ghettos push this, and it falls on fertile ground.

  • Bonkim

    Spot on Mr Delingpole – good analysis – yes Islam is kept alive in its dark ages belief system and social coercion. It took Britain/Europe centuries of warfare and soul-searching to come out of similar dark ages mindsets and enlighten itself. Finding the new world and colonies with their resources and technological developments helped in improving the economic condition of common man helped.

    The real question is how do you destroy the dark-ages-Islamic mindset within a few years/decades – large numbers in the Islamic world and in immigrant communities in the west are illiterate and poor. That is the dilemma for the West. The other alternative – expulsion of Muslims (to where?) will destroy the liberal values that the west has gained over centuries of conflict.

  • Sean L

    That could just as well serve as a traditional High Tory vindication of inequality, offering consolation to the poor. The kind of doctrine only Peregrine Worsthorne or Roger Scruton would nowadays defend. Whereas the kind of vulgar self serving Manchester Liberalism you espouse breeds resentment and entitlement, at once blaming people for their plight while at a stroke absolving their betters of any responsibility toward them. Thus the state fills the void, usurping the charitable impulse. Either way your main point still stands: it’s an alien incursion, their ‘we’ is not ours, excludes us.

    • ItwasBlairwotdunnit

      “The rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate” (All things bright and beautiful).

  • Perseus Slade

    It would appear that Islam is going thorough a process analogous to the reformation in the Christian church: a return to scripture as the valid basis of the faith, a going back to basics. Unfortunately the image of Christ presented in the New Testament was of a mild and non-violent person preaching forgiveness and turning the other cheek to the striker. Unfortunately, the Moslem equivalent, Mohammed, was, as described in their holy books, of a totally different nature, being some kind of violent warlord.

    Therefore, there is little hope that Islam will tend to grow weak and non-threatening like Christianity. Rather the opposite, with spite and jealousy contributing factors (the Moslem world did not invent modern technical civilisation).

    The mask is coming off,
    despite the professional politicians bleating and handwringning.
    The idea of it being Islam that we are a war with
    being just to horrid for them to contemplate.

  • ardenjm

    “It was thus the first step on the road to the Enlightenment. As Abelard put it: ‘Doubt leads to inquiry and inquiry leads to truth.’”

    Delingpole has an uneasy relationship with religion.
    He’s aware that the Enlightenment won’t furnish the resources to meet the challenge of Islam because the Enlightenment ends up with relativistic nonsense and hopeless unbelief. But he doesn’t much like religion either – even though he knows that it, specifically, Christianity, vehicules much that could be drawn upon to nourish and, indeed, enlighten.

    So it is to be welcomed that he has made a personal discovery of the medieval roots to the Enlightenment. The standard post-Christian trope is that we lived in ignorance until the 18th century. So well done James for finding light in the darkness way back in the 11th century.
    And guess what? If you care to look you’ll find that, in fact, it happens even before Abelard.
    Why? Because of the nature of Christianity.
    The Enlightenment is in large part the child beating its Mother, the Church. They are nevertheless of the same family. The Enlightenment COULD NOT have happened without Christianity.

    • Rifleman1853

      “The standard post-Christian trope is that we lived in ignorance until
      the 18th century. So well done James for finding light in the darkness
      way back in the 11th century.”

      And there is more evidence of that in the equipment used by Medieval English archers, as found by the professor of crystal physics at the London School of Science and Technology, who carried out an assessment of two 13th century arrowheads. He found that both of them were made in the same 4-sided pyramid shape, and with the same included angle, as modern masonry nails, which was one reason why they were so effective at piercing contemporary armour. The other reason was, as he found, that though the main body of the arrowhead was of a fairly coarse-grained steel, which helped it to absorb and withstand the shock of impact, the first quarter of an inch had been hardened and tempered into a very fine-grained austenitic steel, hard enough to make the initial hole without crumpling, for the rest of the arrow to drive through (see the book on the history of archery in England, by Robert Hardy). The professor gave it as his opinion that modern heat treatment plants could not achieve any better results than those obtained by medieval arrowsmiths, working with nothing more sophisticated than a forge, a hammer, an anvil, and water!

      As if all that wasn’t enough, documents from that and earlier periods show that fletchers, who assembled arrows, and added the fletchings (feathers) were well aware of the fact that – due to the curve of the feathers – the fletchings spun the arrows in flight, making them more accurate. They also knew that by angling the fletchings, you could make the arrow spin even faster, and that that made it even more accurate, though with a loss of velocity and range.

      In other words, they had observed and noted the results of experiments in ballistics, and applied the lessons learnt to their products!

      It seems to me that, when new learning came through in the period called the Renaissance, far from being a beacon of learning piercing the darkness of ignorance and superstition, it was more a case of new seed falling on fertile and well-tended ground – and that the skilled tradesmen of England were well prepared to make the best use of it.

      Just remembered; another little gem. Many people, including historians who really should know better, assume that the fanciful shapes of plate armour in the late Medieval period was purely for show. Wrong. The armourers knew that the best way to prevent a weapon getting through armour, without making it unmanageably heavy, was to angle the armour so as to make it as difficult as possible for the weapon to impact at 90 degrees to the surface.

      Once armour went out of fashion, that lesson was forgotten, until the Russians brought out the T34 tank in WWII, and the Germans were baffled as to why their armour piercing 88mm shells bounced off it. Assuming the Russians had developed some amazing new steel alloy, they pulled out all the stops to capture a T34, and sent it back to the Krupps steelworks in Germany. They were shocked when Krupps reported that the metal was just plain old cast steel, of not very good quality, at that! It took the German a while to figure out that it was nothing to do with the metal, and everything to do with the shape.

      Compare the shape of contemporary tanks with a T34; the rest of them look like boxes, with bolt upright surfaces. The T34 looks like a jelly mould, with more curves than a Page 3 model! And that was the secret; don’t try and stop the incoming shell – just deflect it.

      It makes me wonder; if that’s the level of sophistication and scientific understanding achieved by medieval arrowsmiths and fletchers, what hi-tech stuff was going on in other trades, all passed on by word of mouth from master to apprentice, and all jealously guarded by the Medieval guilds? And how much other knowledge has been lost, because it was never written down?

  • Bert

    Whilst Fox news may be a little extreme at times, we desperately need a foil to counter the Newspeak of our state monoploy propoganda machine.

    • WTF

      Spot on as I’ve watched them many times when in the USA and they don’t mince words and just say it as it is.

    • red2black

      Perhaps we need a state monopoly propaganda machine to foil the fucking idiotic comments made by people on Fox News.

  • WTF

    Birmingham, Southall, Slough and most definitely Tower Hamlets, even Brits would think that they beamed down to Islamabad so its hardly surprising Fox news said what they did !

  • lakelander

    Very good article which tells us all we really need to know about why this religion is causing such problems for Europe.

  • Mr Grumpy

    Wouldn’t the heritage of the Enlightenment be best honoured by simply admitting that the guy on Fox News was talking b******s (as he himself has acknowledged, though for all his grovelling he’s very coy sbout his reasons for doing so)?

  • Richard Baranov

    James, if I may, I will give you an insight from experience. Growing up in North Africa I witnessed an incident that explains what is wrong with Islam. A young boy, tragically, was trampled to death by a camel. There was much lamentation and wailing for about half an hour, after that everything was back to normal, it was, you see, the will of Allah. Islam is riddled through and through with this fatalistic mentality and it is the reason why no progress can be made. There is no intellectual trick to be had in understanding Islam in its day to day practice. Simply Islam is fatalistic to the core and thereby cripples all aspiration and initiative. Your lot in life is predetermined and that is that, so no point in struggling or trying to improve things. To try is to go against the will of Allah is shirk, i.e. blasphemy, because you are putting your own will above the will of Allah who has determined all things from the beginning of creation.

    • Damaris Tighe

      It seems to me that an ignorant Arabian who fancied himself a prophet, looked at Judaism &/or Christianity, saw the monotheism but failed to see the subtleties, & created a simplistic parody of those two faiths which he thought he’d ‘improved’.

      • Richard Baranov

        Actually Damaris, bear in mind we are talking about an illiterate so his understanding is going to be limited, not as if he could go and refer to a book to refresh or correct what he thought he understood. Further the Christians he would have learnt anything from would have been, it is surmised, monophysites or Nestorians and just ordinary individuals, not priests and not some organized group or church, such a thing did not exist on the Arbian peninsula. So his understanding would have been far from accurate in the first place, hence his inability to understand and his misrepresentation of the Trinity.

        As I also pointed out elsewhere. Allah is probably the pre-Islamic storm god of the Arabs. So the idea that Islam is a continuation of the Judeo-Christian tradition is simply false. The confusion in peoples minds concerning Islam is exactly that, thinking that Islam is a form of the Judeo-Christian religion. As a storm god onto which a confused Judeo-Christianity is grafted, the violent behaviour of Islam falls into place.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Generally agree with this analysis. However, Yahweh was also a storm god so I don’t take the origins of our deities too seriously. They are capable of evolving, as we see in Judaism & Christianity.

          The main problem with Islam as I see it is the nature & character of its founder who was a charlatan without genuine spiritual inspiration & insight. I can see no light in him, although many Sufis have struggled & to some extent succeeded in finding the light that their religion sorely needs.

          • Richard Baranov

            Au contraire, as they say, Yahweh is most definitely not a storm god. The storm god is Baal who is most assuredly the enemy of Yahweh. Yahweh seems to be an amalgam of two
            gods, El and Yahweh. El is the father of the gods, Yahweh is the servant of El and the protector god of the Israelites, hence the arc, the dwelling place of the god carried into battle, ‘god with us’ and all that but literally. The two, the father of the gods, El, and his servant, Yahweh, become amalgamated and evolve into the god of the Jews and the Christians. In the first temple period, evidence suggests that the Israelites worshiped the two separately.

            Baal, the god of the Canaanites, does, in fact, seem to be none other than Allah, who was originally called, Hubal his dwelling place was none other than the Ka’aba at Mecca, and you can see in that early name for Allah, the etymological core of his origin as Baal.

            What is fascinating in all this, to me at any rate. Is that what we have in our contemporary period is a continuation of a battle between Yahweh and Baal. On the one hand the God
            of the Jews & Christians, on the other the God of the Canaanites/Islam. It is a battle archetypal in nature and therefore not easily solved other than, I suspect, by the utter destruction of one or the other because each side
            represent a primordial struggle in which there can be no compromise.

            As for Mohammad being a charlatan, quite so. He was accused at one point of putting seed in his ear so that Gabriel, his messenger, in the form of a dove would seem to be whispering in his ear. If true, that is pretty damming.

            I would like to elaborate but obviously this is not a forum for religious history and myth and this reply would end up being very long indeed.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Yes, there seems to have been an amalgam of El & Yahweh, with El being the father, Yahweh the Son (see Margaret Barker) & god/protector of the Israelites. But this seems to have happened once they were in Canaan.

            The primitive roots of Yahweh, who was probably not native to Canaan but a desert god, do seem to associate him with thunder, storms & mountain tops (nearer to the source of these phenomena). Hence Sinai & the many references associating Yahweh with thunder, lightening, storms & mountain tops in the oldest verses of the OT & some psalms.

            There’s no conflict here with Baal also being a storm god, as he was native to the more settled peoples of the Levant. A different storm god in other words. And it doesn’t matter because the Hebrew conception of God evolved away from this very early on.

            The rest of what you say is very interesting indeed & exactly what I suspected. I’ve long been wondering who Allah really is – perhaps the child devouring Moloch (interesting how that practice also continues today in the Holy Land). But I can see the etymological connection with Hubal (what does hu mean? I know baal means lord).

            And yes, I’ve believed for some time that there is an archetypal conflict going on. It really does seem that there are ancient forces at work. I was accepted at the Jung Institute in Zurich but couldn’t afford more than one year.

          • Richard Baranov

            Hu makes what precedes it more emphatic. Rather like saying ‘yes’ as an expression of triumph.
            Se also what I just added above about Edward Conze.

          • Damaris Tighe

            PS to my long reply: apart from the founder of Islam being a charlatan, I also believe in the possibility that he was ‘in contact’ with one of the forces in this primordial struggle. I’ll say no more.

          • Richard Baranov

            You don’t need to, the equivalency has been noted many times. Baal is often equated with the thing you are thinking of and by extension… And judging by behaviour, it doesn’t seem to be to far wrong.
            I always go by the criteria: ‘By their fruits shall ye know them.’ It cuts through an awful lot of intellectual dribble and false abstraction.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Re parag. 2: exactly, especially if the fruits persist over time, duplicating & re-duplicating. I’ll look up Conze.

  • rtj1211

    Your most thoughtful argument yet, Mr Delingpole. A shame it couldn’t be mass market, rather than in the speccie niche. Probably around 10 million ‘true Brits’ who could probably do with reading it…….

    Perish the thought that the leaps and bounds improvements lead to you succeeding Justin Welby any time soon?!

  • Sean L

    Let’s not pretend this Fox news bloke didn’t have a point. A few years back, 07 I think, I was driving with an Essex based Pakistani client employee to their Birmingham office in Handsworth. He’d been in this country about five years and had never before travelled north of Watford. As we we turned right on to Soho Road, Handsworth’s main thoroughfare, he said “Wow this is like Karachi! What is happening to this country.” His tone was apologetic more than anything.

  • OldFlashy

    i just posted the statement below on another site but would welcome opinions by anyone who might still be reading this article.

    When on holiday in Spain a friend of mine flicked the telly on to the Islam channel, as he noticed it and we thought it interesting to see what was going on, quite innocently. It was morning so it was a cartoon of young Muslim children playing about to a song that sounded a bit like a chant( it’s a religious channel I guess so you can imagine). They were all playing nicely in a field or whatever, no bother. Out of nowhere up popped a white businessman looking type with wads of cash in his hands, laughing uncontrollably until he swiftly went up in flames. Obviously not speaking the language I’m not 100% on the context but I can have a good idea. This was at about 11am (it was a rainy day and a late start) but we found it quite worrying.

  • wudyermucuss

    Yanks make blunders about the UK all the time.
    A CIA chap on Sky referred to Raol Mote’s gun spree in “the West Country”
    No “controversy”,no headlines,but then,no narrative to be upheld.

  • Tam

    Now in democratic France the home of liberty they have had to post armed Police and Soldiers outside Jewish Schools to protect the poor innocent children from the Cowardly Islamic Racist and bigoted “Soldiers” who prefer to attack schools. I do not know who supplies these sub humans with their Guns and Money, but they should be identified and Eradicated.

  • dan

    there’s so much bollox in this article.

    what the hell is pre-medieval? do you mean classical? ignoramus.

    the majority of immans are wahabi? really what about all the shia ones then? most muslims are taught this version of islam? again what about the shia?

    how bout a fairly straightforward explanation of why fox got it wrong? cos it employs beligerent fuck wits instead of journalists – the likes of james delingpole in fact

  • ROGER

    The article is based on a extreme sermon Delingpole heard on the Radio recorded in a Cape Town mosque for world-wide
    distribution, and then wonders why there are no local issues as you would find
    in a local church. From this single Cape Town radio broadcast he argues that the
    whole of Muslim Britain is non-aspiration, even though there are many Muslim
    MP’s, Lords, and Millionaire Business people.

    • Tom M

      On the few words of the sermon given to us by Delingpole I don’t think it was extreme at all just very sad.

  • flippit

    Yes, so please remember when talking about decentralisation and city states etc. It could backfire.

  • global city

    Islam needs to undergo the same assault that Cultural Marxism succeeded in doing to Christianity. Critique and highlighting both the religious contradictions as well as the basic question of whether God exists at all should be daily played out….starting in the West!

    What chance of our ‘comrades’ taking on this task?

    None.

  • Ivan Ewan

    I remember reading this article and thinking – is it possible? Is it possible that a journalist has actually bothered to find out something all by themselves?

  • Dodgy Geezer

    …Whether you are rich or poor, the preacher told us, it is imperative that you should accept your lot because this is what Allah intended for you. There is no point grumbling that the rich are undeserving because, unlike Allah, you do not have the full information. Allah chose them to be rich for a reason, which we lack the divine wisdom to understand.
    As I listened to this uncompromising message, two thoughts struck me. The first was: ‘Is it any wonder that Islamic countries perform so poorly in the economic league tables when their religious leaders seek to destroy the single quality most likely to encourage economic growth: aspiration?’…

    Odd, that. I am sure Dellingpole is aware of the ‘All things bright and beautiful’ hymn. Written about 1850, it presents exactly the same ‘anti-aspirational’ message. Which is what the British religious leaders would have been pushing.

    And yet Britain at that time was well into the Industrial revolution, and creating the most economically advanced Empire the world had ever seen – with capitalist aspiration everywhere.

    Some mistake, surely?

    • Rifleman1853

      No – it proves that, even if the congregations sang that hymn when it was on the list at church services, they acted in accordance with their own beliefs that they could improve their lot in life.

      In fact, reference to many Victorian books and articles (many of them written by churchmen and self-professed Christians) shows that people believed that the poor were poor due to their own lack of diligence or thrift, and not because God decreed that they should be poor.

      • Damaris Tighe

        And then of course there was the book ‘Self Help’ by Samuel Smiles – much derided by my leftist history teacher.

    • PeterS

      Drivel – if anything, ‘All things bright and beautiful’ seeks to contextualise ‘capitalist aspiration everywhere’. It could easily be titled ‘There’s more to life than money, y’know’… but it wouldn’t have quite the same ring to it.

  • Jankers

    but they all aspire to own a German car and an I phone, that’s western values right there.

    • sebastian2

      Actually not. They aspire to western gadgetry not the western values that give rise to them. They can purchase a Mercedes and an iPhone, but never invent and manufacture them.

      • Jankers

        Western values 101-
        Stack ’em high & sell’em cheap.

  • sebastian2

    “imparted by your friendly local Islamist cleric that Wahhabist/Deobandi Islam is the one true way and that all others are vile heresies,”.
    When will we be hearing these comforting sentiments on “Thought for the Day”?

  • kevla head

    Similarly the sentiment can be applied to schooling.
    Modern comprehensive Ed. might be seen as Madrasas (for want of a better word) to liberal/ secular indoctrination whereas many Muslim schools may be seen as Madrasas mainly for the promotion of Islam.

  • sebastian2

    You’ve got to wonder how many mosques are routinely preaching this sort of segregationist, 5th column type bigotry. Quite a lot I imagine – and doing it unchallenged.
    So the Religion of Peace is also the Religion of Division. What a surprise! We should be sending in regular monitors to check on what these imams are encouraging their susceptible congregations to.

  • mightymark

    “Whether you are rich or poor, the preacher told us, it is imperative that you should accept your lot because this is what Allah intended for you. ”

    So all the excuses about “they only do terrorism it because of poverty” – quite apart from not being true – is also misguided because they are theologically urged not to aspire higher by their own clergy.

  • Kugelschreiber

    I don’t mind a FEW foreigners (it’s nice for them to have the opportunity to reach their potential in our civilised land, this makes me happy for them) but I get very nostalgic and wet-eyed when I look at the photos of OLD Brum, back in the 50s for example, with pictures of ALL WHITE English people queuing at the bus stops up town or of our Dad standing smiling outside his old factory in Sparkbrook with his motorbike and sidecar.

    Those endless factories in which the Birmingham people worked so hard for so little, their efforts eventually being rewarded by their country being given away to foreigners by the politicians.

    • kevinlynch1005

      To be fair, many of those foreigners arrived in Britain following a period when British people didn’t just arrive in THEIR part of the world in large numbers, but actually took it over and ran it as a business for their own benefit!

      • Kugelschreiber

        Kevinlynch1005

        I respect that we have to look at all arguments and it is true that many of the British Empire countries were exploited after being defeated in battle (also often IMPROVED generally though!)

        But it was only a small NUMBER of British people who went OUT there, DIRECTED by our RULING CLASSES, while the great MAJORITY of British people remained AT HOME minding their own business and , actually ALSO being EXPLOITED by the RULING CLASSES, who lived lives of luxury of the backs of OUR LABOUR and squalid living conditions and most of us living very POOR lives ,with little wealth

        An additional point is that if those invaded countries of the Empire could have done the same to US then they WOULD have.

        The Africans apparently were fierce fighters, difficult to defeat and thus little invaded UNTIL the British travellers of the Empire got themselves the “advantage” of the fire power of the GUN

  • Kasperlos

    Injecting, without asking the peoples of the West, totally and radically contradictory mores and religions into a civilisation in which it has taken centuries to formulate with values we still have is a monstrosity truly bordering on insanity. The mainstream media has hijacked the message of the Germany’s anti-Islam demonstrations, reducing their message to one of hatred. Their message is this: We refuse to be sacrificed on the alter of the new world order, we demand that our governments reject to the full extent any changes to the values and traditions of our country, and we will not surrender to ideas of a 7th century foreign religion. What’s wrong with that? Plenty, if you’re of the Marxist cultural bent and either a social re-engineer or an acolyte of the same. The West is in peril and few see it for what it is.

  • Russ Littler

    I dispair at the modern left-wing society of todays Britain. why are “we” the indigenous people not allowed to speak out? Why are our “equality” laws all based around preventing freedom of speech? Why are we “all” subject to anti-terrorism laws, when it’s always the Islamic community that continually flaunt and break our national security laws. Why will our corrupt politicians never listen to what we are saying? Why will they not apply the existing laws to protect our national cultural heritage? Why do they want to destroy British society? I cannot understand this lemming-like mentality.
    The single biggest threat to our demise as a country are our very own politicians. The sooner we rid ourselves of this sub-species of invertabrates the better.

  • Persuasive

    But God does know all things and his ways are not our ways. http://www.couragetolaugh.com

  • Roger Hudson

    All ‘progressives’ should help set up christian churches in saudi-arabia for foreign workers ( like catholic philippinos) just to maintain balance. Can you imagine it.

  • terry oneil

    operation trojan horse hmmmm seems that was a hoax dear old delingpole bit like your view of birmingham.

    on the imaginary trojan horse

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-31923024

    “A series of official investigations found the claims to be groundless.”

  • Russ Littler

    Maybe it is time for the people of Britain to hold the political elite to account. we should take a leaf out of the Dutch governments new laws.
    http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/2219/netherlands-abandons-multiculturalism

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