Matthew Parris

Reading the comments on my Ukip columns, I finally understand the Nazis

I was rude about Ukip voters. I can take rudeness in return. But it’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there…

18 October 2014

9:00 AM

18 October 2014

9:00 AM

Like many, I’ve always been a bit baffled by the story of the rise of Nazism. The Germans I’ve met have appeared to be human beings like any other: in no signal way a different breed from my own countrymen.

Yet these are the great-grandchildren, grandchildren and children of a generation that was taken in by Adolf Hitler; or, worse, carried him forward; who supported (many of them) the Nazis; who knew or guessed what was happening to Jews, homosexuals and other minorities; who must either have turned a blind eye or positively encouraged what was happening.

How could they have? I’ve tried to insert myself into that era, imagine how it must have felt, picture a society in economic turmoil and gripped by personal insecurity, and think myself into a 1930s German frame of mind. I’ve rehearsed all the allowances that can be made: ignorance, despair, excitement at a leadership that seemed to offer hope and glory. I’ve even asked myself whether there could have been a scintilla of justification for believing at the time that one’s country was being debauched by international Jewry. Pushing my imagination as hard as I can, I’ve tried to feel how this madness might arise among a people such as my own.

But I’ve always failed. Clinging to the belief that the Germans cannot be very different, I’ve nevertheless been unable to suspend the here and now: to feel how it must have felt to them at the time.

Until now. In what I’m going to say there’s a very great danger of overstatement — or of being read in that way. So let me be absolutely clear at the outset. I am not saying that the new populist right in Britain are proto-fascists, neo-fascists, or anything like the European fascists of the past century. I don’t believe that in the end my fellow–Britons could ever be led on to the madness that was 1930s Germany. I retain a faith in the essential decency of most of my countrymen — and, more important, their ingrained restraint and sense of proportion.

So let me say it again: I see not a glimmer of the dawn of fascism in modern Britain, and to say otherwise would be scare-mongering; I know of no significant political figures today who would even dream of going that way; and, yes, for the record, that does include the leadership of Ukip.

But I’ve had recently a glimpse into the psyche of populism in our era and country; and this has helped me understand how things might have felt in another. I’ve experienced a month’s immersion in a strange and disturbing world: the online readers’ internet posts in my own newspaper, the Times; in the Daily Telegraph; on Conservative Home; and on the website run by ‘Guido Fawkes’.

There’s a reason for my adventure. I have been writing scornfully in the Times about Ukip and its supporters and about some (not most) of the Tory right; and I’ve painted a disobliging picture of the places and cultures — such as Clacton — where these tendencies thrive.

Let’s not beat about the bush. I’ve been rude about these people. Urging the Conservative party not to take the colour of its opinions from theirs, I’ve characterised their culture as being marked by failure. Though not quite as rude as Boris Johnson’s or Kenneth Clarke’s, my remarks have been insulting. I must therefore expect — and did expect — to be insulted back. I dish it out and (unlike many of them) I can take it. So I have not been surprised and must not feel traduced to be called a snob, an arrogant little squirt, a pinko and proto-Marxoid, and (on the Fawkes website) a puss-filled queer — or words to that effect: I forbear to recheck the reference. And worse. And that’s fine.

So leave me out of it. It’s these voters’ opinions about their fellow countrymen, about foreigners, about immigrants, about Muslims, about MPs (all MPs), about the rich, about London, about culture, about business people, and about anyone of a liberal disposition, that have offered me the dismaying glimpse I describe. It’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there among the readers’ posts.

You’ll remind me that these commentators are no more representative than the loudmouths who call in to shock-jock radio phone-ins; that I’m looking at a grotesquely skewed sample; that such individuals have always existed and may signify little. Well, I remind myself of that too, when depressed in the small hours, in the dark, ploughing through and responding as our editors enjoin us to do, and temporarily plunged into a kind of Hieronymus Bosch netherworld. So yes, they aren’t typical, may not be numerous, and may not signify….

And yet. I hear echoes of their craziness from the real world of real politics among the right. The worst of it — the nub of it — is, first, the paranoia; second, the blind hatred that follows the paranoia; and third (and relatedly) the blanking of their minds, the glazing over of their eyes, the blocking of their ears, whenever confounded by a counter-example or incontrovertible correction to a false claim.

If you set out with sufficient determination from the founding premise that we’re all going to the dogs, and foreigners, Brussels, rich people and a massive conspiracy led by corrupt Westminster politicians and European ringmasters are driving us there, and anyone who argues otherwise must be part of the conspiracy, then there is almost no counter-argument, no fact, that cannot be navigated round. When stymied in their argument, they simply change the subject. I am coming miserably to the conclusion that a kind of collective mental illness can whip large numbers of people into a Gadarene rush — and reason is helpless in its path.

So no, these people aren’t Nazis and I’m sure never will be. But I have begun to understand the mass psychosis we call populism and, rather late in my life, almost to despair.

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Show comments
  • Sean Grainger

    Bliimey, this edition should have been called UKIP Special

  • EschersStairs

    In democracy, legitimacy is derived from the people. When politicians fail to reflect the will of the people, sure, we expect public opinion to foment towards change.
    When the Weimar Republic fell it was because they had lost their basis of legitimacy. The German people, rightly or wrongly, felt that they were kowtowing to the will of (what they perceived to be) the vindictive victors of the first world war. Coupled with the serious economic fall-out that followed WWI, opinion fomented towards change.
    The prevailing economic climate is at least part of the motivation of the change in political temperature. But as with post-WWI Germany, it would be a mistake to separate the economics from the plethora of other issues (immigration, EU etc.) that are upsetting people.
    So what would de-escalate the situation? One acceptable answer would be for the politicians to make a dramatic shift (not gradual like the Weimar Republic) to link themselves to the will of the people. The second, and perhaps more rational way would be to declare a clear and positive vision for the UK and to back it up with real, measurable actions.

  • Joe Long

    “So leave me out of it. It’s these voters’ opinions about their fellow countrymen, about foreigners, about immigrants, about Muslims, about MPs (all MPs), about the rich, about London, about culture, about business people, and about anyone of a liberal disposition, that have offered me the dismaying glimpse I describe. It’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there among the readers’ posts.”

    To take one example are you denying that there is, and has been for many years, a Muslim grooming, rape, torture, trafficking, pimping and prostituting epidemic?

    Are you denying that what passes for authority in this country has been utterly derelict in its duty to protect young girls and their families from the most extreme abuse and threats of physical violence?

    What greater proof could there be of the degeneracy of the political/media class of which you are such a spiteful little ornament?

    Prof Jay has reported that in Rotherham girls as young as 11 have been repeatedly raped by multiple perpetrators, she says that they are discarded by age 15, and new victims, new “fresh meat” is groomed.

    You don’t give a damn about this Parris and there is culpability in your neglect.

    No wonder we hate people like you, liberalism is a mental illness and you present with advanced symptoms

    • StepByStep2004

      Never realised Jimmy Savile was a Muslim – or his many friends and fellow-abusers

      • Damaris Tighe

        There is a qualitative as well as a quantitative difference between Savile et al & the ‘grooming’ gangs. When immigrants & their descendents who’ve been given a home here start preying on the natives, people have a right to be especially outraged.

        Indigenous people everywhere naturally expect newcomers to behave as ‘guests’, as my own forbears did. In return the natives should behave as gracious ‘hosts’. It’s an unwritten code that we all instinctively understand – except of course liberal/leftists who obscure with self-hating whataboutary the particularly henious crime (by a minority) of immigrant supremicism, aka colonialism.

        • StepByStep2004

          Because that isn’t colonialism. So anyway … Damaris … it’s not so bad if your rapist is white – that’s what you’re saying, is it?

          • JohnRedLantern

            stepbystep2004 – What you are saying is that it’s not so bad if your rapist is NON white… You are the problem and your ilk.

          • StepByStep2004

            Where did I say that?

          • Damaris Tighe

            You have to look at it on two levels: the individual & the social. I understand that the me-generation (including myself) find this difficult. On the level of the individual it doesn’t matter what colour the rapist is (unless they’re racist). On the social level when the host society sees members of an immigrant community treating native children like sh*t in an organised way, involving extended families, it feels collectively abused. So we have individual abuse & we have collective abuse.

          • rtj1211

            I think the goings on at Elm Guest House and plenty of other places showed that the natives were perfectly capable of treating native children like shit in an organised manner and we covered that up just as horrendously as people claim is happening about the Muslims now.

            No difference at all.

          • MrJones

            Most of the worst children’s home related child abuse cases are the result of it being covered up – usually because one or more of the perpetrators was an MP.

            Adding PC to the list of reasons for a cover up is not an improvement.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            “No difference at all”.

            Equally vile and equally deserving of media coverage, official investigation and public condemnation.

          • Fergus Pickering

            There is a difference. More muslims do it. It is more normal for them because oof their views on women in general..

          • StepByStep2004

            So you’re saying you believe in collective punishment – holding a whole community to account, and punishing them for the crimes of some of its members?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Yet another ‘so you’re saying ..’ comment. No, I’m not saying that or anything remotely like it. I’m analysing. All are individuals & equal before the law. You need to read what posts actually say, not what you expect them to say due to your negative stereotypes.

          • StepByStep2004

            Just trying to understand your point of view.

            Time for one last try.

            Your words were: “when the host society sees members of an immigrant community treating native children like sh*t in an organised way, involving extended families, it feels collectively abused. So we have individual abuse & we have collective abuse.” So: when that happens, are there any *innocent* people in the immigrant community? Or is the entire “immigrant community” guilty of “collective abuse”?

            Your view on this is that “All are individuals & equal before the law.” Okay – then how can any one of them be guilty of “collective abuse”? Each individual either committed a crime, or they didn’t. If they did, let them be caught and punished before they harm others. If they didn’t – well, holding innocent relatives and neighbours responsible for crimes they didn’t commit is – well … it’s not British. For one thing.

          • Damaris Tighe

            The individual rape victim experiences abuse by an individual. But when this abuse comes from networks within an immigrant group the host community ‘as a whole’ feels abused as a community. It feels treated with contempt, as if its hospitality has been abused. Thus there are two levels of abuse when there is organised, widespread criminal activity coming from within an immigrant group where most of the victims are natives. This makes it different from, & even worse than, an ordinary crime (the ‘white rapist’ you referred to).

            I can see that my phrase ‘collective abuse’ could be subject to misinterpretation. I hope it’s clear now that by collective I meant the host society, not immigrants. And of course I didn’t mean collective punishment.

          • StepByStep2004

            Thanks Damaris. It is a matter of concern when there’s evidence (some on this thread I think) that the issue is being taken as an excuse to further victimise other innocent people and/or hijack the whole issue for political ends. Some people are doing that and I say shame on them. But I take your points in some respects – I would take issue with “worse than” for example – but let us agree to differ on that for the time being

          • Damaris Tighe

            Thanks for being so open-minded & I’m glad we got there in the end!

          • mohdanga

            Umm, when did anyone condone Savile because he was white?? Please use logic.
            There are enough native born criminals running around, we don’t need to augment this with foreign born ones.

          • rtj1211

            Based on what’s happening to a white English footballer, I tend to disagree with you there. I don’t have a clue about the truth of that case, but he has maintained his innocence for 2.5 years and now he’s told that ‘his way back into football is to acknowledge his crime and show remorse’. Would you show remorse if you thought you were innocent and were continuing to fight for what you saw as justice??

          • Fergus Pickering

            No I wouldn’t. But he was found guilty by a court. Consider the case of a burglar who similarly thought he was not guilty. He would not get out early, would he. This guy has another two-and-a-half years to do. Why isn’t he doing them?

        • AJH1968

          How about a sizeable immigrant community committing all manner of atrocities; whilst receiving without any semblance of gratitude the largesse of the host nation. And if that is not enough engaging in all manner of outrage and hostility at the mere hint of the most supine reproaches.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Gratitude is out of fashion AJH. It has been replaced by entitlement. The whole host-guest-gratitude thing is a nexus that many no longer understand.

        • rtj1211

          Did those European settlers end up getting away with it??

          I think you’ll find it was considered ‘one of the perks of office’.

          I don’t think anyone disagrees with you about what the Muslim gangs are doing is evil.

          What they object to is some claim that that behaviour is a consequence of being a Muslim, being a socialist or whatever.

          That claim is pure malignant evil and is the cause of all your own outrage about others’ reaction.

          99.99% of socialists hate paedophilia. Same figure for Muslims. Same figure for Liberals. Same figure for Conservatives.

          Just focus on the crime and stop trying to equate it with political philosophy. Then you might get somewhere.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I don’t think for one minute that socialists, liberals or conservatives in general like paedophilia. Where on earth did you get that idea? I don’t even think that muslims like ‘paedophilia’. It’s a totally anachronistic term for the custom of marrying off very young girls in the rural subcontinent.

          • John Croston

            “99.99% of socialists hate paedophilia. Same figure for Muslims.”
            Nonsense. Find me one Muslim who will condemn Mohammad having sex with Ayesha when she was nine years old. Find me one Muslim who will condemn his and his followers’ rape of captured women and girls.

          • Fergus Pickering

            99.99%. So there are only 6,000 people attracted to paedophilia here, by which you mean sex with underage girls and boys. I think you will find….

        • Andrew Tucker

          In what universe is the scale vaguely comparable?

      • global city

        That’s just soooooooooooooo clever. I bet it shuts down the debate!

        • Joe Long

          Funny really that Savile was disinterred only a few months after the 3rd Rochdale grooming trial when the extent of the grooming/rape epidemic was becoming apparent and could no longer be suppressed

      • Jerome Leroy

        Jimmy Saville was protected by the BBC and police, the Muslim rape gangs have been protected by social services, the police, Labour councillors, also each girl under the age of 16 was worth £200,000, and they where sold to everyone apart from native British white people, sex tourism exists in UK, deal with it.

        Over 1400 cases over a period of 16 years in Rochdale alone, you are a foul human being for bringing up Saville to stop debating the issue.

        Completely difference cases all together, you must study the arch bold.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Jerome, I’ve been waiting for someone to bring up Savile et al in relation to Rotherham. I knew it would happen & had already sharpened my pencils.

        • rtj1211

          Given the numbers of children who disappeared from care homes in the UK and given the noted scandals of paedophilia, it’s fairly safe to assume that sex slavery and human trafficking was occurring as an industry in this country the past 50 years without a single Muslim lifting their fingers.

          • John Croston

            The big difference is that non-Muslim peados know that what they are doing is wrong and do their best to keep it secret. Muslims know that their religion justifies what they do and phone their cousins, uncles and friends to join in “the fun.” And nobody in their community says a thing.

      • JohnRedLantern

        What has Jimmy Saville been convicted of?

        Most if not all of what has been said about him is by vested interests and those seeking easy money.

        The man is unable to defend himself as the leeches and cowards waited until he was dead.

        It is simply unrealistic to believe most or all of the accusations against him, unless you simply want to believe and put reason out of the window.

        • Fergus Pickering

          I am amazed. Do you also believe Obama is a muslim? And that Tony Blair is a child abuser?

      • Joe Long

        “Mothers of prevention

        The Times
        September 30, 2007
        by Julie Bindel

        Schoolgirls in Lancashire and Yorkshire are falling prey to sinister gangs of pimps.”

        Astonishingly enough the “sinister gangs of pimps” to which Bindel referred in this article were not ancient or dead celebs or politicians.

        In 2007 the operations of grooming rape pimping gangs(1 girl can bring in 300k pa) were not understand, for the most part they were denied.

        But now, in the town of Rotherham alone Prof Jay says that “at a conservative estimate” there were 1400 victims; she says there may be many more – victims and their families were too terrified by the extreme threats made by Pakistani gangs to come forward.

        No more diversions, no more lies

        • StepByStep2004

          Abusers and grooming gangs come in all shapes, sizes, and colours: white British, Afghan, Kurdish, you name it. Reliable figures are hard to come by, but a quarter to a half of child abuse gangs are believed be of Asian/Pakistani background, and about half the gangs abusing teenagers and vulnerable adults are believed to be Asian, while the rest are white or unknown. The percentage of Asian/Pakistani backgrounds among the abusers is therefore hard to determine, but they seem to be a minority of abusing gangs. White gangs are also in the minority. No one ethnic group seems to predominate.

          Organised grooming gangs are only a small piece of the jigsaw of abuse. An estimated quarter of all young adults are thought to have experienced some abuse in childhood. Most of this abuse never comes to court.

          So it’s hard to tell, but the typical British sex abuser does not seem to be an Asian or Muslim grooming gang member at all. Rather, the one thing that most abusers seem to have in common is that they’re men. Some people on this thread seem to want to start another civil war to wipe out sex abusers. They think they can do this by targeting Pakistanis. Logically, if they target anyone, on the evidence, they ought to target men. Men in general. Just try and wipe out the male half of the entire population. Nobody would want that, because it’s obviously stupid. But it’s not as stupid as targeting Pakistanis.

          So why target Pakistanis?

          • Joe Long

            “Reliable figures are hard to come by, but a quarter to a half of child abuse gangs are believed be of Asian/Pakistani background, and about half the gangs abusing teenagers and vulnerable adults are believed to be Asian, while the rest are white or unknown. The percentage of Asian/Pakistani backgrounds among the abusers is therefore hard to determine, but they seem to be a minority of abusing gangs. ”

            Where did all this come from?

            Andrew Norfolk of the Times demonstrated the reality of the Pakistani grooming model in 2011, aware of the inadequacy of official information he examined the group grooming trials since 1997 – and showed from that sample overwhelming Pakistani preponderance.

            This has been reinforced by subsequent trials(there have been 20+ now) and obviously by the Jay Report, which is conclusive.

            Jay found that at a “conservative estimate” there had been 1400 victims over the period, and that the vast majority of abusers were Pakistanis. She said it may be that the number is twice as many; victims and families are too scared to come forward, getting doused with petrol is a convincing threat.

            It speaks for itself, Rotherham is a town of 250000 people, and the Pakistani population there is 8000

            This is an epidemic, only today it is reported that


            “Asian” of course does not mean Asian, it is a politically correct euphemism – and it is outrageous given that Sikhs for instance have been on the receiving end.

            Where are the White British grooming gang court cases to support your contention? To be proportionate in terms of population there would have to be hundreds

            Rochdale – there have been 4 trials over the period 2010-2013; the vast majority of those tried and convicted were Pakistani. And nobody supposes that there are not many rapists of the same ilk wandering round free


            Where’s the White British equivalent?

          • StepByStep2004

            NSPCC and Office of the Children’s Commissioner. The link’s at

          • Joe Long

            The inadequacies of CEOP were dissected in the Law and Freedom Report


            However the CEOP information, for what it’s worth, shows a massive disproportionality in terms of “Asian” groomers


            It’s very much more more disproportionate in reality given that the vast majority of group/gang grooming rape convictions are handed down to Pakistanis

            Berelowitz has her own agenda – she accused Andrew Norfolk of “racialising” grooming. What he did was to take the only reliable info – that of court cases, and analyse it, winning the Orwell Prize in the process.

            Norfolk commented as follows about Pakistani grooming – Q641

            “this is a normalised group activity-not among a major criminal gang, but among friends, work colleagues and relatives-that does not have the same sense of shame attached to it as would be the case for your typical white offender, who works alone because if he told too many people, somebody would report him.”


            If White British were engaging in this foul gang/group practice on any scale then there would be a track record in the courts – and there isn’t

            “The Rotherham findings related to sexual exploitation more generally, and was not restricted to either gangs or groups.”

            typical weasel words

          • StepByStep2004

            Law and Freedom Foundation – “or Mosquebusters” as they seem to prefer to call themselves! What are your criteria for selecting reliable sources of information?

          • Joe Long

            Well Taj Hargey did draw a direct link between mosques and grooming rings


            This ties in with what Norfolk said about “normalised group activity” – to which can be added the helpful comments of Ahmed idea though he has his own ideas of what constitutes fun in this context


            I take you didn’t get much further than the first page with the law and freedom material – shame because there’s lots of material there you would have appreciated



            here’s a heart-warming follow up to that vibrant tale of enrichment


            I did think that some of the law and freedom statistical projections might be a bit of a stretch, but that was before the Jay Report revealed the horrific scale in 1 town alone

            And it would be naive to think that official bodies and political parties do not have their own agenda and a great deal to hide.

            eg Rotherham Council and SYP – and there must be many Rotherhams; only reason we know about it is because a whistleblower leaked the files to the Times,

            The Labour Party has certainly been corrupted

            “whole body of the Labour Party has been polluted”


            The blind eye to grooming for bloc votes equation holds in many Labour run areas

            And Political correctness is the order of the day

            “Another confidential 2010 report, for the Rotherham Safeguarding Children Board, warns against drawing too much attention to the ethnic origin of the alleged abusers.

            It states: ‘Great care will be taken in drafting…this report to ensure that its findings embrace Rotherham’s qualities of diversity. It is imperative that suggestions of a wider cultural phenomenon are avoided.’


            Say politically incorrect stuff – like CROP did – and the funding gets withdrawn


          • StepByStep2004

            Keep your hair on Joe, I’m showing you a consideration I wouldn’t show to many, which is to have a proper look at the Mosquebuster guy’s report. I have a feeling the clue will prove to be in the name but let’s not prejudge the report – I’ll get back

          • Joe Long


            “Police and child-protection workers in England’s second-largest city concealed evidence about the scale of sex-grooming offences and the ethnicity of offenders, it was claimed yesterday.

            In an echo of blunders exposed in Rotherham, West Midlands Police and a safeguarding board were accused of withholding reports that gave details of the force’s consistent failure to protect victims and prosecute offenders.”


          • Fergus Pickering

            Who estimates this quarter. How is it estimated. There can’t be a schoolgirl in the land who hasn’t been flashed at and very few schoolboys who haven’t been approached by dirty old men, and dirty yong men, come to that. But serious exual abuse? 25%? I don’t believe it.I think you are making it up.

    • global city

      When it comes down to it, his disdain shows that he is really pretty uncouth…and yet he thinks he is a young cosmopolitan. I have more class and humanity in my little finger.

      • Joe Long

        He’s 64 apparently, must devote a lot of the scribbling proceeds to filling the cracks in his features

      • Andrew Tucker

        Do you fuck.

        • global city

          Obviously more than you!

        • Bonkim

          Are you an imbecile?

    • dms0001

      As far as I’m concerned, Government, it’s agencies, social services, police, etc, have been nothing less than pimps for the pedo Muslim, as well as the Saville agenda. They should be called that from now on, PIMPS. As for this odious Parris, does anyone actually bother to read his diatribes any longer. telegraph would do better to cease publishing his tripe. Nov 1st fast approaches, yet, do we hear anything on the subject?

      • Stigenace

        Parris writes primarily for the Times and the Spectator.

    • rtj1211

      Liberalism is not a mental illness and it has nothing to do with Muslims grooming girls for gang rape. LIberalism, primarily, was about Free Trade and Liberty of the Subject, freedom to make decisions.

      White Conservatives have organised paedophile parties, including removing children from care homes so to do. So have Labour supporters. As did a few Liberals.

      You need to learn to distinguish between political philosophies and the evil behaviour of individuals.

    • Andrew Tucker

      Yep. Fascism for all then I suppose.

  • flippit

    Oh Matthew, it is all about you isn’t it. Wonderful you, not down there with the riffraff, you were just harmlessly critical of the people of Clacton were you? (never seen a nastier portrayal of poor whites all uneducated and common – to the likes of you and your fellow ‘elites’). Of course you can’t imagine what turned the Germans into Nazis, you’re too good, you have to always distance yourself from anything bad first, portray yourself as reasonable. You hate it when people are nasty to moderate Muslims online, because you see yourself as personally courteous, everyone else should be too. Look at the flip flop you did on Scottish independence, at first we should be noble and let them have it, but when it got close you sure changed your mind, after all they were saying some nasty stuff!
    Of course there’s meanness out there and down there. Horrible stuff. But you are not better than them. Your masterly sneer at the people of clacton, or people who are discourteous to moderate muslims online, is to denigrate humankind. People are human, they’re bitchy some of them, stupid some of them, but only a minority get online and pour it out, most just should at the telly and get on with it, or ignore it altogether – how many people voted last time? And in any case they’re probably a lot more personally kind than you. In every word you write your aim is to differentiate yourself, rather than get at the truth, and you have a problem.

    • actually it isn’t all about matthew parris, which he also says. stupid of him to bring up nazis because you can’t go anywhere with that debate, but he’s right about this underworld down here, “BT”, this territory is a foetid mass of hatred and paranoia, the targets are as MatthewP says – muslims, london, rich people, brussells, MPs, anyone who has made a success of life.

      • Ivorschwartzporsche

        I don’t see what this has to do with people who prefer to vote UKIP

      • Richard Reeves

        “brussells”? What about the other vegetables, I think he is targeting those as well!

      • rtj1211

        My experience of people who have purportedly ‘made a success of life’ is that they are primarily driven by destroying similar aspirations of those below them and in some cases, their own siblings.

        ‘Knowing your place’ is something those who ‘have made a success of their lives’ find very important in others.

        Actually it’s a sign of their own incompetence at management or a sign of a very primitive and pathetic dominance complex.

        I’ve never hated people who made a success of their lives. I hate implacably those who expect me to hand my own chance over to them because of their pathetic psychological derangements.

        Our society pays a lot of money to some right psychopaths you know. A lot of queen bees. And a lot of secret dictators.

        Many people would prefer society to reward those who were generous with their success……..

        • Ganpati23

          So logically, given what you said, you can believe one of two things:
          a) You have made a success of your life and you are therefore as evil as everyone as successful as you and Parris.
          b) You have not made a success of life, and therefore seem to blame others for your inadequacies. In this case, Parris. (Some others seem to blame immigrants, foreigners, LibLabCon, the metropolitan elite, Brussels and the EU, and some, harking back to an earlier time, also blame Gypsies, homosexuals and Jews. But for you it’s Parris and his ilk. Today, on this thread, anyway.)

          So which is it?

          But as the pseudo-Thatcheroid author says, don’t expect an intelligent response.

          • gfr

            You should probably read what “RTJ” wrote again because your response was neither “logical” nor “comprehensible”..
            I tend to doubt that he was talking about you anyway.
            And IF Parris has made a success of himself by running down his country, I guess I’d just as soon be unsuccessful..

          • UKSteve

            Troll alarm triggered!!!!

          • Wessex Man

            so logically you are a pompous di**head!

          • Andrew Tucker

            c) That you, Ganpati, belong to the aforementioned group and are in denial about it.

      • andagain

        If it’s acceptable to draw analogies between the National Socialists and Socialists, I don’t see why it’s unacceptable to draw analogies between National Socialists and Nationalists.

        Common sense might suggest thay have as much in common with one as with the other.

        • Ali

          UKIP are not a Nationalist party they are a Libertarian party. They are patriotic but their love of country is because we invented freedom. Nationalists put the state before all other considerations, they are therefore always left wing, because to be right wing means to put the individual first if it means anything. It is this confusion between Nationalism and a patriotic wish to protect this cradle of democracy, justice, and above all Liberty that causes difficulty for those who like to imagine they are the nice, tolerant, liberal, good guys. But we are only intolerant of what is intolerable, such as the rape and prostitution of girls as young as eleven, by Muslim men and the turning a blind eye to that sort of vileness by right on, politically correct, liberal, good guys, in return for votes, or because they ‘don’t want to rock the multi cultural boat’. Calling the people who are prepared to speak the truth about such issues either mad or Nazi-like is insulting to those children, some of whom are still waiting for counselling.

          • andagain

            They want to declare independence. In fact, that is the major selling point of the party, or it was until their publicity started to be dominated by opposition to immigration.

            So they are as much nationalists as the Scottish and Welsh nationalist parties.

          • Rifleman1853

            Andagain – I think you’ll find that one of the key points in the UN Charter is that all people have the right to self-determination – in other words, to have control over who runs their country, and the right to hold those people to democratic account.

            If that’s what you mean by ‘nationalism’, can you explain what you have against such a right? Or do you think it is, somehow, morally superior to have your country run by an unelected and democratically unaccountable bunch of foreign bureaucrats?

          • andagain

            If that’s what you mean by ‘nationalism’

            Everyone seems to think so when discussing Scottish and Welsh nationalists.

          • Rifleman1853

            Yes, but why do you have a problem with it?

          • andagain

            I didn’t say I had a problem with anything. I made an observation.

          • moggie79

            In coming round to the view that UKIP is the English nationalist movement that was bound to respond eventually to Scottish, Welsh and Irish nationalism, years of neglect of the English pov while pandering to the other 3 nations, and of course, anti ‘establishment’/’we are the people’ rage fuelled by the Net.
            I see parallels between the populist nationalism of Farage and Salmond/Sturgeon, both claiming to be fighting ‘the elite’ – the bogeymen of Westminster. With two ruthlessly nationalist/populist forces rampant, I fear that, tragically, the future of the UK as a united kingdom doesn’t look rosy. As a Brit to the bone, I want to be convinced otherwise though.

          • nancledra

            ‘we invented freedom’. Oh. We did? You half-wit!

          • Conway

            England was free long before the continent – it had a democratic system long before most continental countries. Common law and the adversarial system meant that torture was relatively rare in Tudor England, but common under the continental Roman law (which is nowadays replacing Common law thanks to the EU). We had Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights.

          • Ordinaryman

            “nancledra”. Good Cornish name.

          • Simon_in_London

            “Nationalists put the state before all other considerations”

            State-Nationalists put the State first. There are also Ethno-Nationalists, they put the people first. State-Nationalists may be Fascists, or they may be Liberal Democrats, or somewhere in between (eg the French FN). Ethnonationalists may be Nazis, or they may be Liberal Democrats (eg both the main Irish parties, more or less) or somewhere in between (eg Sinn Fein, which is Nationalist-Socialist, or Vlaams Belang, which is economically fairly liberal).

          • moggie79

            Do you know what Libertarian means?You are ‘only tolerant of what is intolerable’? Are gay people intolerable? I don’t see many UKIP supporters backing gay marriage, which is the epitome of libertarianism. What I see are people desperate to impose their own social mores on others and restrict the rights of those who don’t fit in their ideal mould. Not Libertarian. Something else entirely.

          • JayJay

            Gay marriage is the epitome of libertarianism? According to who? Not Ayn Rand or any of the other great thinkers. Marriage is a construct, it is a religious model adopted by the state and as such has no place in legislation. I say this a someone who is both a Christian and a gay man, but also a libertarian.

          • moggie79

            Then ban civil marriage for everyone and only allow religious believers who can prove their belief to marry. Make it a solely religious rite with no economic or social benefits over any other state. When that happens, theres a libertarian argument against gay marriage – the right of a particular sect to deny non believers access to its rites because then that is all it will be. A religious commitment defined by each religious sect. Though even then some Quakers would still allow gay people too marry.
            And Ayn Rand is a great thinker? You think that as a gay man? Given she finds you ”immoral and disgusting’?

          • JayJay

            Ayn Rand was a product of her time too. She had a sanctioned affair with a much younger man, and the very last thing she would do would be to bring the question of morality into any discussion. She founded objectivism. So, sorry, but you’re clearly just talking out of your ass. And even though you’re being a douchbag, I do agree fully with your first statements. The state has absolutely no right to legislate over marriage. It is a rite and as such should be excluded from the fat green fingers of the state. The state should preside purely over contractual law. If a man and a woman, two men, two woman, 3 men and a woman… would like to enter into a contractual agreement relating to their “relationship”, who are we to stop them. Additionally, this does not change the definition of marriage for those who chose to enter it on a different platform in a different time.

          • Fergus Pickering

            I must say,speaking for myself, I think a huge age gap between the partners, like that between Dante and Beatrice say, much more dodgy morally and aesthetically, than marriage between people of the same sex. But I would allow both, since my morals and aesthetics are my own, and should not shape public policy.

          • UKSteve

            It isn’t a religious model at all. Marriage is not the exclusive preserve of any religion.

            It is a civic status. Ayn Rand? Pffff!

          • JayJay

            Its both a legal definition and a religious rite. I believe it should remain the former rather than the latter. Just another excuse for the state to meddle.

          • UKSteve

            I agree with your first sentence, but there is no state meddling whatsoever as I see it.

            They are simply levelling the playing field and it should have been done years ago.

          • IMarcher

            The imposition without democratic mandate of fake marriage was the act of a ruling class desperate to impose their own social mores on an entire nation and they are now busily restricting the rights – especially of freedom of expression – of those who don’t fit their ideal mould.

          • moggie79

            Fake marriage? Really? Do all those couples over the years who married in civil ceremonies know they’re not really married? You want to restrict the rights of a certain group of people who are no threat to anyone because …?

          • Andrew Tucker

            ‘Fake marriage’.

            Yeah, because all the loveless, perfectly Christian 19th century marriages were real. But gay ones born of love between consenting adults are fake. Gotcha.

          • alfredo

            Gay marriage has nothing to do with libertarianism or liberty and a lot to do with authoritarian ideology.

          • moggie79

            The right of people like you and I to have the same ability to marry as you or I. Please explain how thats authoritarian.

          • IMarcher

            Everybody already had exactly the same rights to get married!

          • moggie79

            Im not sure Im understanding you. Everybody had the same rights to get married before gay people were allowed to get married?

          • IMarcher

            Well yes obviously. Everyone had exactly the same rights to get married regardless of any weird personal habits they might have. Strange habits have never precluded marriage.

          • UKSteve

            What a completely ignorant piece of nonsense.

          • IMarcher

            Oh are you saying that marriage has been forbidden for those with weird personal habits? I have never heard of anyone enquiring into such matters before permitting anyone to get married. Do enlighten me of such enquiries.

          • UKSteve

            Nurse, he’s out of bed again!

          • Andrew Tucker

            Utterly incorrect. Must try harder.

          • UKSteve

            What bollocks.

          • alfredo

            How too, too kind, Maud.

          • UKSteve

            To be honest, it was. I restrained myself.

          • alfredo

            No, no. Let it all come out. You’ll feel better for it. What exactly is your problem?

          • Andrew Tucker


          • cremaster

            TROLL ALERT!


          • UKSteve

            Doesn’t seem to be a libertarian party any more:

            “UKIP is a patriotic party that promotes independence: from the EU, and from government interference. We believe in free trade, lower taxes, personal freedom and responsibility.”

          • Andrew Tucker

            ‘Nationalists put the state before all other considerations, they are therefore always left wing, because to be right wing means to put the individual first if it means anything.’

            Wrong, wrong, wrongety-wrong.

            Look up ‘political compass’.

            It is perfectly possible to have right-wing economics but be authoritarian. Likewise you can be a libertarian socialist – left-wing economics with strong personal freedoms.

        • UKSteve

          Because both are nonsense.

          Any reading of any serious political texts will reveal why just mixing words in different arrangements doesn’t work.

      • gfr

        So your idea of being a success is sponging off the taxpayer?

      • Conway

        If you want to target “anyone who has made a success of life”, then Labour with their politics of envy is the party for you.

    • John Carins

      This is a poor disingenuous attempt at an apology. The insinuation that UKIP voters could be associated with the Nazis is contemptible.

      • Wessex Man

        This is no attempt at an apology, it’s merely a not very clever attempt by a bloke whose importance is greatly exaggerated by himself!

      • Marmalade Sandwich

        Matthew Parris believes he understands an important subject! I can’t understand how he is is paid by the Spectator to write such tosh. I wrote on his last post to say the same. Will I/others renew (my) subs? Something I hope he passes on to the editor.

        • Kohagen

          You pay for this nonsense?

      • Ganpati23


        • gfr

          Because UKIP is diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING that the Nazis believed.
          The EU is the logical successor to the Nazis – as people are beginning to find out.

          • Ganpati23

            So EVERY Ukip member, including those expelled from the party or from a position of prominence within it – those who said that Lenny Henry should go back to a black country, or that Mo Farrah wasn’t British, or talked of Bongo-Bongo Land, or said that God punished gay marriage with bad weather, or denigrated Jews, Romanians, Nigerians, or gays, lesbians and Muslims, etc etc etc – are diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING that the Nazis believed?


            I think you should study a little more history.

            And if you really think that “The EU is the logical successor to the Nazis” then I think you need to read an awlful lot more.

            But as the pseudo-Thatcheroid author said, I shouldn’t expect a rational response.

          • IMarcher

            Lenny Henry had complained that television was “too white”.
            Mo Farah is Somalian.
            It was a Tory who said bad weather could be blamed on fake marriage.

            So you really, really think it’s OK to complain that there are too many white people around, that it is OK to deny someone their origins, that it’s OK to be batty as long as it’s a Tory being batty?

          • Shorne

            Mo Farrar’s father was born in Britain, that makes him British. Perhaps you feel Kevin Petersen shouldn’t be allowed to play cricket for England…?

          • Airey Belvoir

            Surely Mo is only really ‘British’ for athletic/career purposes. He lives, mostly works and pays taxes in the USA, where he is raising his family.

          • Shorne

            Like David Beckham did you mean?

          • Wessex Man

            I certainly do! as for Mo Farah, I as UKip member have absolutely no problem with him or his father. What I do have a problem with is our Capital being occupied with Eastern European beggers who are now trying to jump the housing queue. I have a problem with the Eurpoean Parliament’s fake outrage when my party’s MEPs turn their backs when Ode to Joy is being played, the same music which was being played as millions were murdered in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s.

          • Shorne

            Funny you should mention the 1930s and 40s as the Polish MEP Farage has persuaded to join EFDD is from a party whose leader reckons Hitler didn’t know about the holocaust. Still now Nige will get his millions of Euros as well as his £79000 salary, travel expenses and subsistence for him and his crew that came to £800,000 in 2013.

          • ukfred

            I think enough of English cricket feel that Kevin Pietersen should never again play cricket for England.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Pietersen isn’t. Effectively. And none too soon.

          • Craig Yates

            If a dog is born in a stable does it make it a horse?

          • Shorne

            If a dog is born in an English stable it’s an English dog.

          • Kaschner

            “Mo Farrar’s father was born in Britain, that makes him British.”

            An interesting debate beckons. What does “British” actually mean? If a pregnant Japanese lady gives birth at Heathrow does that make her child British? Does it give her baby the same status as me? Would the same be true in reverse? Or would it be, as Shorne implies, only that child’s offspring who would be British? The word ‘British’ may need to be redefined, don’t you think?

          • UKSteve

            Why would anyone offer a rational response to such a deranged and childishly selective rant? Same goes for the author; it was a bizarre thing to write.

            And that you suggest gfr “reads a lot more” is a howler.

            People who live in glass houses……




            And that’s just Labour!

          • All of your examples there were misrepresented by the media. You’re showing your gullibility.

          • Shorne

            Having worked in a prison for 13 years I saw direct evidence of the negative consequences of uncontrolled immigration, perhaps more so than most other people commenting here but I am opposed to UKIP because, well as Aristotle said “A man is known by the company he keeps.”

            “Nigel Farage says he is ‘proud’ to have secured former BNP supporters”
            “Nigel Farage has joined forces in the European parliament with a Swedish party that was founded by white supremacists, including a former member of the Waffen SS. In an apparent change of tack, after he pledged to avoid parties on the far right, the Ukip leader also invited a French MEP who was elected for Marine Le Pen’s Front National last month to join his pan-European group in the parliament.”

            “Nigel Farage’s UK Independence party has told its MEPs not to oppose a package that would fund some of Europe’s most extreme parties. The Alliance of European National Movements, a grouping of far-right MEPs, is looking to get £340,000 from the European commission, with a similar amount for a possible think tank. The alliance includes the British National party, Hungary’s neo-fascist Jobbik party (whose supporters dress in Nazi-type uniforms, spout anti-Semitic rhetoric, and express concern about Israeli “colonization” of Hungary) and Bulgaria’s far-right National Democratic party.

            You claim ‘UKIP is diametrically opposed to EVERYTHING that the Nazis believed.” – damn funny way of showing it.

            Still for some of us there is good news
            “UKIP leader Nigel Farage’s group in the European Parliament, the Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD), was dissolved on Thursday (16 October) after Latvian MEP Iveta Gricule decided to leave the group.”

            So as somebody said;
            “Just like his new MP Nigel Farage will now have to shout from the back benches, that is if he actually bothers to turn up.”

          • vieuxceps2

            It is because of the ultra-lefty libby luvvy approach to immigration that the realists who oppose it need to adopt a right wing stance to balance the animus against white people in Europe displayed by the marxoids.Let’s have fairness for all,not just for immigrants.

          • Shorne

            Your emphasis on white people shows that you truly belong in UKIP

          • vieuxceps2

            Just as truly as your comment shows that you belong in the racist anti-white lefty luvvies.

          • Shorne

            I think you are trying to pack too many insults into your frothing little rant, ‘luvvies’ really only applies to actors.

          • Wessex Man

            For a liar like you to accuse him of a rant is laughable!

          • UKSteve

            A stupid comment, and unworthy of you it seems, the type which has completely poisoned debate in this country.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Shorne = anti-white racist.

            Your rejection of the mention of white people shows that you truly belong with the anti-white anti-nation left wing ar s eholes.

          • Shorne

            It’s funny how members of the UKIP claque are incapable of commenting without resorting to insults which instantly weaken their always simplistic arguments.

          • Conway

            BNP members are not allowed to be UKIP members, unlike in the Labour party where they have become councillors.

          • David In Rome

            Yeah well that’s another bit of Ukip propaganda not matched by reality.

            So what is the difference ideologically between BNP members and BNP voters?


          • Damaris Tighe

            You’d like to think there’s no difference. BNP voters are often disaffected with the whole political system & without ideology. They will have voted BNP because no true centre right option was available (unlike now).

          • Wessex Man

            Nine Asian Councillors in london resign from Labour en masse because of racist behaviour shown to them!

          • Wessex Man

            You are a liar! supply the Link where Nigel Darage has ever said that he was prod to secured former BNP supporters!


            Labour on the other now former BNP members as Councillors.

            You’ve also forgot to mention that she admitted that her arm was twisted with a job!

            You seem to make a habit of being a liar!

          • Shorne

            With friends like you UKIP doesn’t need enemies. 20 days ago I drew attention to a remark by Derek Batten, UKIP MEP and founder member, that it wasn’t UKIP’s policy to hold an in/out referendum on EU membership. You called me a ‘lying toerag’ and demanded I provide a link, I did. This time you have done the same and here is the link
            I’m beginning to wonder if people will think I’m posting miss spelled links (‘Darage’, ‘prod’) under another name just to imply UKIPers make a habit of being dickheads.

          • ukfred

            So just because you disagree with someone else’s view, you think that different rulesshould apply to them. That is the democracy of Stalin, Mao, Kim, and Hitler.

          • Shorne

            What different rules? He called me a liar, I proved I wasn’t. If he hasn’t got the sense to check facts before hurling insults about then he deserves all he gets. Reactionaries have problems with facts as they can’t stand being proved wrong.
            Space bar got stuck did it?

          • Cyril Sneer

            He is an A typical lefty fascist.


          • colchar

            The German failed in their first couple of attempts at taking over Europe but this one is definitely going much better for them!

          • Craig Yates

            The Zionists and Bolsheviks won in case you missed it and now have been systematically ethnically and culturally cleansing us as part of their white genocide project and bankrupting as part of their talmudic instruction to create usury upon the gentiles.

            Something the Nazis stood against as they were on the RIGHT side of history.

            because our enemies have total hegemony over our finance politics and media they have all the dumb sheep like yourself singing to their tune. they tell you who the boogey man is and you accept without question.

          • terry sulivan

            very true–eaw etc

          • Guest

            I’m one who supports a holistic Europe…

            OMG! I’M A NAZI!

          • Craig Yates

            Nope. the Nazis tried to stop the Bolshevik and Zionist enslavement of the people of Europe.

            But they have sheep like you so well programmed such truths rarely get the scrutiny and recognition they thoroughly deserve.

        • Andrew Tucker

          *cue borderline Nazi ‘anti-white’ (anti-German) rhetoric.*

          Yeah, us whites have it so hard, don’t we. Get stuffed.

      • David Ganz

        Look at their allies in Strassbourg.

        • John Carins

          Sie sind ein Dummkopf.

      • ButcombeMan

        Parris has become an intolerant disgrace to good journalism.

        Basically, you disagree with his line, you are a Nazi.

        Odious Mathew, below you. This is democracy. Get over it.

        • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

          Once the word ‘populism’ appeared I stopped reading.
          Clearly an article written by a narcissistic pseud.

          The masses could not possibly be ‘right’ about anything.
          The outlook of a fool!

          • mikewaller

            Clearly a response from a guy desperate to protect his own world view. What is the next stage, book burning?

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            What a silly comment.
            Illogical too.
            When you discuss matters do you always put the ‘other’ point of view ?
            Change your name to Mr Wally forthwith.

            (a)Parris IS a pseud of ginormous proportions.
            (b)The masses may well be right.

            Large scale immigration is an example
            The rumblings against it began years ago.
            Willfully ignored ; one of the reasons belng that it was populist pov.

            I assume you’re against uncontrolled culture changing immigration. ?
            It would not surprise me in the least to find out that you are not.
            If so after changing your name go and live in Tower Hamlets asap if not forthwith.

          • mikewaller

            This, a rant rather than a considered response, rather makes my point.

          • I am proud to be a Populist.

        • mikewaller

          Your response and what he is objecting to is not democracy but a nasty combination of yob ignorance and spleen.

          • disqus_KdiRmsUO4U

            There are more ‘yobs’ than clever dicks’ like you.
            Your ‘democracy’ point fails completely.

            The yobs have controlled nothing and been sent to die in suspect causes.
            Clever dicks have ruined the nation with a mixture of looney idealism and a failure to recognise the importance of value added manufacture.

            Quangos, the arts, overstaffed government departments etc etc we have aplenty. all fit for non yobs yet financed by yobs , borrowing and funny money..

      • ted hagan

        Did you actually read the piece? You just underline his point

      • Hegelguy

        I would prefer not to take the chance, thanks.

        In these things you never can be too careful.

        History shows that when demagogues bray and break lose, it is the innocents who suffer.

      • Not sure about that….

    • Pootles

      Well put, Flippit – and without being unpleasant.

    • Kohagen

      You sure nailed it there.

    • Lancastrian_Oik

      Well said, flippit.

      Funny how he chose the example of Nazism to illustrate his exegesis of political populism, isn’t it?

    • pointlesswasteoftime

      And you’re not doing the exact same thing in differentiating yourself? How noble.

    • Penny

      “Of course there’s meanness out there and down there. Horrible stuff. But you are not better than them”


      I find Matthew’s article darkly amusing. Unless UKIP supporters are serial non-voters, then they have previously voted ConLabLib – but I don’t recall any politicians in the past charging up to the moral high ground, writing articles and requesting that such oiks abstain from voting for their party. And they should be honest – they would in a heartbeat take back the votes of the very same people at whom they’ve been sneering.

    • Noa

      One reads this disingenuous sneer of an ‘apology’, from a man who described his fellow Britons in the near untermenschian terms one would normally associate with Joseph Geobblels, with amazement and dismay.

    • mikewaller

      That’s crap. To your own discredit, you are reacting negatively to a decent man’s clear distress at the yob ignorance of so many of his fellow citizens. My father, a tradesman, had much the same reaction as Matthew having been exposed to thousands of his fellow citizens during the war. A good number he considered outstanding, many others perfectly reasonable, but there were also a disturbingly large number whose outpourings reflected a toxic mix of anger and ignorance. Only a fool would suggest the UK is paradise on earth; but for the most part I think the anger stems from good old self-serving bias i.e. the human universal of preferring to blame others for problems largely of their own making. Given the downward direction our economy is inevitably heading in the this fast changing world, it is far more comforting to blame the immigrant and the politician for what was in fact a National orgy of borrowing, failing to invest, and comparatively low productivity that landed us in the current mess. Owning up to the coming generations about how we threw it all away would be a far more constructive move than voting for that fantasist Farage.

  • Ricky Strong

    Given that there are many UKIP supporters who remember the two great wars and many who lost loved ones, the suggestion that you could somehow dredge up the argument that there is a correlation between Nazis and UKIP supporters especially on this year of all years is utterly vile.

    • Alan Wager

      Utterly contemptible to claim that nothing can be learnt from history. Particularly history that is still, as you say, contemporary. There, mock outrage isn’t too difficult. It isn’t clever.

      • global city

        Year Zero person.

      • Rallan

        What a smug, thoughtless response.

        8 years ago I was backpacking through Romania. I saw a street market stall selling WW2 antiques, all of which were German and had a swastika motif. At the time I was a smoker, and they had an awesome lighter for sale. It was a beautiful, interesting piece and I would only have cost about a fiver. I obviously didn’t buy it. The stigma of carrying a Nazi badged item in the UK would have been appalling.

        That’s how powerful the Nazi association is. Carrying such a thing in England would deservedly invite violence.

        During the recent mass media anti-UKIP onslaught of abuse & vilification I was repeatedly branded a Nazi, racist, xenophobe, homophobe and a moron. Think about that. I had to justify myself to friends and family.

        My outrage is real.

      • Ricky Strong

        The Nazis? Really?

    • is there nothing kippers can’t do!? those many kippers who remember not one, but two great wars. who can remember the mess of gallipoli, when daddy joined the old contemptibles, the terrible dark days of the somme. and now he’s here, nigel farage, their saviour!

      • global city

        speaking of ‘contemptible’.

        Sneering is not cutting comment…. you continually fail in your attempts to embarrass people.

      • Wessex Man

        Do one di** head!

      • Ricky Strong

        That you can even use the Somme as some sort of mockery speaks volumes about you.

  • Here’s a guide to common Ukipper debating tactics. It doesn’t matter whether you’re perfectly polite, try to have a bit of a laugh at them (political satire) or you choose to be openly rude to them (which I try not to), the result is always the same. A stream of angry comments like these:

    • Jerome Leroy

      I see that all the time from Labour/LibDem/Green voters on CiF, whats your point? you are judging a political party based on a comments section on a website, its rather idiotic.

    • Richard Reeves

      Tom, I have visited your website and I can’t quite understand where you are in the political spectrum…you’re not LibLabCon or Ukip, I’m guessing you must be either SWP, Hope not Hate, UAF or ISIS

  • Jenson Phaedor

    “Gaderene rush”, best insult ever. Filthy swine chosen for their disgusting inferior qualities in order for the more deserving to be free from their demons. Hmmm. Nazis you say?

  • Diggery Whiggery

    Matthew, when Tony Blair swept to power on a wave of populist hysteria and hope in 1997, did you call it populism? Was that not also a kind of mass psychosis?

    Well we’ve seen where Blair’s politics has taken us and therefore we know where Cameron’s politics will take us too. Blair’s reforms for reform’s sake, in the name of something called ‘modernity’, without first understanding what he wanted to reform has led this country to the brink of cultural, societal and institutional destruction.

    Social liberals create anarchy and call it paradise. They undermine the building blocks of civilization itself and then claim to defend it.

    “But I have begun to understand the mass psychosis we call populism and, rather late in my life, almost to despair.”

    Populist mass psychosis always has it’s roots in the same problem Matthew and that’s the inability of ‘les bien-pensants’ to listen to people who are considered to be lower than themselves, until it’s too late that is. They never admit their mistakes however and so are doomed to repeat them.

    The conditions for the Nazi rise were created by people like you Matthew. To take a present day example, the rise of Islamism is the muslim world’s reaction to people like you Matthew. Now rather than writing yet another puerile and self-absorbed article, why not try and consider this simple truth and act accordingly.

    • Alberto Dietz

      Agreed, though it must be made clear that anarchy, real anarchy, is simply the absence of that cancer called goverment. Both proggressive and neocons create chaos. Progressive Woodrow Wilson created evils such as the IRS and the FED, as well as the conditions for the Nazi rise via wrongly entering and prolonging WW1 and imposing impossible conditions on Germany. Over the last three decades DC has been hijacked by neocons (recycled trotskyites), a most dangerous bunch of genocidal psychopaths and termagants bent on world domination. If nukes are not yet flying all over as a result of their criminal activities and most recklessly via their nazi goons in Ukraine, it is only thanks to the world’s only statesman and coolest person alive, a paleo-conservative Russian patriot and class act known as Vladimir Putin. Cheers, Vlad!!

      • noix

        Just a quick point, I think it was the French that imposed the harsh Versailles conditions, or at least were the driving force.

        • Andy C

          That is a very minor error compared to the quite incredible assertions made in the rest of that comment. You say neo-cons are ‘recycled Trotskyites’ – I’m not sure whether you don’t understand neo-conservatism or Trotskyism. My money is on both.

          And as for stating that we are only experiencing nuclear war thanks to the great statesman Putin, you have moved from common or garden political and historical ignorance to plain insanity.

          • noix

            I think you are replying to the wrong post.

      • pointlesswasteoftime

        So you’d have liked to see the Kaiser win and Mexico enter the war on his side? Interesting.

    • andyrwebman

      “The rise of Islamism is the muslim world’s reaction to people like you

      What, so without his sort the muslim world would be moving towards being a liberal paradise, open tolerant of religious criticism and women’s rights? Dream on.

      • Diggery Whiggery

        That’s not what I said.

        Matthew sees himself as a moderate, yet that is a relative term. To a moderate muslim his politics of social liberalism enforced by the state are extreme. The West makes the adoption of this kind of politics a condition of being part of the ‘global community’ and so we force it on other countries, cultures and religions, whether they like it or not.

        In the case of the UK, many first generation muslim migrants made their way to a conservative and traditional Britain that while christian in nature afforded them the possibility of finding their place in society without having to completely change their beliefs.

        Today, their decedents find it much harder to reconcile their faith or culture with the Britain around them and it’s aggressive, ever expanding atheist secularism.

        Social liberalism has gone from meaning that the state keeps its nose out of what you do in your own home and personal life, to imposing a set of views and correct thinking on everyone. Under those circumstances people who disagree either have to submit, or find ways of fighting it.

        If we only give the muslim world a choice between our secular liberalism that they see as a barbarism alien to their culture, or a barbarism that comes from their own culture, they will unfortunately choose the latter more often than the former.

        • Damaris Tighe

          This is a great post Diggery. Please re-post as often as possible. In my experience many people don’t want to hear this.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Will do, thanks.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I had similar thoughts during the ‘trojan horse’ controversy. We railed against conservative muslim infiltration into schools, but didn’t look at what they were/are responding to in wider society.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Quite, if Britain was economically and socially free in the classic sense and had maintained her sense of morality in order to temper the excesses that those two things can produce, we wouldn’t be in this mess.

            Today’s UK is where you are free to think one thing. That everyone should be free to succumb to any urge or desire and do as they please, no questions asked, no responsibility taken and no judgment given. Whatever the corrosive effect it has on others or society in general is of no consequence.

            The result is a society that is incompatible with pretty much anyone of faith (not just muslims) or even people with no faith but who still have a traditional sense of right and wrong.

            Most muslims find it abhorrent and IMHO most native Britons do too.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Not so sure about ‘most native Britons’. Even regular speccie commentators have given me flack for saying something similar to you – although not as well put, I must admit. I fear we’ve gone beyond the point of return, culturally. I bet you receive a lot of flack for your comment.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            We’ll see. I don’t care though because if I get flack it’s because it’s the truth and they know it, but they can’t bear to think about it.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I agree totally.

          • Simon_in_London

            People are very keen to defend their right to do what they want. Political types especially seem to really enjoy the whole Sodom & Gomorrah thing we’ve got going on.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Gin Lane.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Not much Sodom and Gomorrah in Canterbury, my love. Where do you live?

          • Simon_in_London

            Look at my user name and make a guess. >:)

          • Fergus Pickering

            London is a big place O wise one. Not much Sodom and Gomorrah at Strawberry Hill where my parents lived. Not to notice. Nor where my daughter lives which is packed with jews in funny hats.

          • Simon_in_London

            I work in central London, live in zone 3. Plenty of S&G in both.

          • Fergus Pickering

            And the best of luck to youse all!

          • rtj1211

            Actually, Britain has merely rejected the centuries old hypocrisy of the Establishment telling the oiks how to behave whilst doing what ever they felt like behind closed doors.

            Henry VIII and marriage?? The British Empire and drug pushing (yes that’s right, we were drug pushers all over Asia during the height of our ‘glorious Empire’)??

            Paedophilia in the royal palaces??

            Britain never had the society you dream of and probably never will. It had upstairs, downstairs and what went on upstairs was usually less disciplined than what went on downstairs.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Wow more assumptions.

            Who the hell mentioned the empire?

            All I’m saying is that since the war we’ve gradually been assuming that because some people are hypocrites who don’t respect such and such a law or social taboo, then the rule or taboo has no purpose. I think that’s profoundly dumb.

            Murder is illegal, some people still commit murder and yet not many people are proposing that we should make it legal.

            As for Opium, you know that opium was grown and sold in China before we came along right? We imported the concept of opium dens from China not the other way around. The only thing that annoyed the Chinese elite was that British opium was cheaper and so their own opium plantations lost revenue. Judge history in its context not according to your politics or CCP propaganda.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Muslims don’t mind raping under age girls and boys though, do they? Nor are they against honour killing i.e. the killing of their female relatives. Nor do they suppose a woman has the same worth as a man -m a quarter of the worth I think. Most Britons share in none of these views and practices.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Like I said, they’ve moved to the extremes.

            “Most Britons share in none of these views and practices.”

            I never said otherwise

          • Fergus Pickering

            No. They were always like that.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            I don’t agree.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Why not?

          • IMarcher

            If those Muslims didn’t like the “wider society” they shouldn’t be here.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Did you even read Diggery Whiggery’s post?

          • John Croston

            Even if they like it, they shouldn’t be here. They have their own lands. This is ours.

          • mohdanga

            “We railed against conservative muslim infiltration into schools, but didn’t look at what they were/are responding to in wider society.”
            That may be true but surely the onus should be on Muslims to either accept what they see in our secular society or leave. They knew what they were getting into when they came here, there should be no apologies made for their behaviour.

          • Damaris Tighe

            “They knew what they were getting into ..”: not exactly. Read Diggery Whiggery’s post to AndyWebman that I was replying to.

          • Simon_in_London

            “They knew what they were getting into when they came here” – No they didn’t. Anyway it is the second & third generation ones who are radicalised.
            Not that I think Britain should change to accommodate them, or any other tiny interest group.

          • Baron

            Seconded, and seconded once more.

        • So lets go back to pre-1960’s world to accommodate the Al Qeada/ISIL death cult because they cannot deal with women driving and gay marriage?

          • Diggery Whiggery

            That’s not what I said either and I didn’t mention gay marriage or women’s rights, you did.

            At the moment we have secular extremists screaming at Islamic extremists with the rest of the world caught in the middle. At some point there’s going to have to be some sort of compromise.

            I don’t think that most muslims have a problem with women driving, but most of them do have a problem with gay marriage as do many other Britons actually, myself included. Why do you think they didn’t publish the consultation?

            Had there been a referendum on gay marriage, the votes cast in the ballot box would not have been the same as the answers given to pollsters.

          • So you want the right to decide who a person falls in love with? That is why you and Al Qaeda/ISIL are a pain to society you want to tell people what to do with their own mind and bodies.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Stop emoting & start thinking. Did he say anything about the ‘right to decide who a person falls in love with’? He spoke about the institution of marriage. Before SSM gay couples already had the civil partnership. I for one & I suspect most posters here had no objection to civil union.

          • So what is wrong with gay marriage….? Oh that’s right it has been banned by religious text. Problem being these religious text also say you can live in heaven and have 72 virgins if you behead a man or wipe out whole nations because they would not convert.

          • pointlesswasteoftime

            Yeah, but some religions are more equal than other religions, except where they agree.. Go figure.

          • Fergus Pickering

            What? Only 72. I’ll think again about beheading my next-door-neighbour then.I gthought the going rate was 1,000.

          • Andrew Tucker

            ‘Will you civil partnership me?’

            Eff off. Equal rights.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            “So you want the right to decide who a person falls in love with? ”

            Nope, see reply to rtj121 and stop making assumptions to suit your politics.

            Once again you mentioned gay marriage first, I didn’t.

          • Basically I am tying all modern right wing ideology together as an example of how they are setting the agenda for modern day intolerance and potential genocide and it usually has its basis in religion.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            That’s your choice, but it would be better to respond to what people write rather than what you would like them to have written.

            Libertarianism is not right wing it’s bang down the middle. Google Nolan chart.

          • gfr

            You have a problem with the definition of marriage that has existed EVERYWHERE for THOUSANDS OF YEARS?
            I couldn’t care less what a tiny handful of perverts do. I do have a problem with them trying to tell me that a psychological pathology is “normal” and that I MUST accept it..

          • rtj1211

            Ah so the minority who are the Muslims, because they are ‘conservative’ like you, can be accommodated, but the gays who are not, cannot.

            You appear to simply be choosing those more similar to you in temperament, rather than expressing any deep principles……

            Gays are going to be gay, whether you like it or not. They want the same status in society for their long-term, stable relationships that you want from marriage.

            If they can’t have that, they are secondary citizens and all who oppose it are equivalent to racists, because they are merely transposing nationality or skin colour onto sexual orientation.

            I have said this many, many times to right wingers like you: your marriage is only down to you and your wife. Nothing anyone else says or does in their own personal space has any effect on it. You for whatever reason need everyone to be like you and, if they aren’t, they have to be controlled.

            Well: please explain how gays are your competitor in choosing a wife? Please explain how your ability to reproduce is affected by the population becoming increasingly homosexual (since you still have all the heterosexual women to yourself)? Please explain how the vows you made are affected by 1 million gay couples (or whatever the number is) doing exactly the same?

            Your christian beliefs need to evolve beyond the days when life for all was a genuine struggle for survival and you had to breed eight times to secure two adults. Now, overpopulation is the issue on this planet and, to be brutal, if 50% of the population became gay and didn’t have kids that would help the population time bomb enormously. They won’t, but you know what I mean.

            The Christian Church is supposed to espouse three things: forgiveness, understanding and mercy.

            You don’t seem to understand gays very well, you seem incapable of forgiving them for living their lives true to their own views and you think that gays should be accorded secondary status in society.

            I don’t care what you call gay ‘marriage’ as long as the societal rights for that institution are identical in law as traditional marriages. I don’t believe that churches should be required to carry out gay marriage ceremonies unless they wish to, but I don’t believe that those churches have any right to imply that those not a member of them should experience any less rights under law than a christian marriage.

            Britain always spends decades resisting, resisting and resisting before then telling the world how forward thinking it is.

            Gay marriage is a classic example.

            By 2050, the pols will be telling the world how Britain ‘led the world on this’. Don’t think it is, myself. But history never did tell the truth down the line. It spouted the PC line of the winners.

          • Suzy61

            I ask a genuine question here so please do not misunderstand my motives…does a civil partnership not defer the same rights as marriage?

          • Simon_in_London

            It did.

          • Damaris Tighe

            If civil partnerships did confer the same rights as marriage, as I’m pretty sure they did, you have to wonder why there was such a push to get SSM. After all, marriage was simply a traditional form of union that heterosexual couples could call their own. It was taken away from them in the name of ‘equality’, an empty equality because no extra substantial rights were gained.

          • Suzy61

            Thanks Damaris. I’m pretty sure I’ll be unpopular for what I will say now, but here goes…

            I am not religious. Agnostic I think best describes me. I have nothing against those who believe but I simply don’t ‘feel it’. For that reason, I did not marry in Church (but did not feel any less married for that) and did not have my children Christened. To me, it would have somehow felt hypocritical to do so.

            If a civil ceremony does confer (I stand corrected) the same rights as a marriage then I cannot see the appeal of gay marriage unless it is between two religious people or it is deliberately antagonistic.

            It seems to me that those who are not religious are not merely fighting for equality – but want something more than that. They want to claim this symbol of religion and hetrosexuality as a trophy. Much like ‘rubbing their noses in gay rights’. An act of provocation that brings no more benefit than a civil partnership would, apart from upsetting the natives. If agnostic hetrosexual couples are happy with a civil ceremony, why not they?

            If the couple are religious then I believe they may well have a stronger argument but I can only imagine they are a very, very small minority as against all their fellow church-goers who maybe find this whole thing just a step beyond. Should we praise their defiance or maybe expect them to defer to the majority for the sake of the religion they profess to love?

            It seems to me that it is the ‘militant’ gays who foster the intolerance they complain of.

            Why does tolerance never cut both ways?

          • moggie79

            Look at Stephenesque’s reply above. Asking a minority that have, even in this country, a long history of oppression, violence committed against them, and are regularly abused as ‘unnatural’ and told they should be grateful to be allowed any rights at all, why tolerance cant cut both ways, is an interesting way to go.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Nail. Head.

            My own preference is: civil partnerships for all couples, including same s*x; marriage for religious ceremonies only.

          • gfr

            Holland has had Gay marriage since 2000 and so far only 20% of the people who COULD have gotten “Gay-married” HAVE gotten “Gay-married”..

          • Fergus Pickering

            So what? People marry much less often than they used to everywhere.

          • Stephenesque

            No, it doesn’t. Pension rights are different and Civil Partnerships are not recognised in countries like Sweden, Argentina and Portugal where gay marriage is legal.

            There are more details here…


          • Conway

            Then the answer was to tweak civil partnerships so they had all the same pension rights. Are you saying that civil weddings (between those of the opposite s*x) are not recognised in Sweden, Argentina and Portugal?

          • Stephenesque

            No, the answer was to open up marriage to everybody, which is what is happening.

            And, no, that is not what I am saying. All marriages, whether in a register office, a hotel a church, a synagogue or anywhere they can legally be held are recognised in those countries.

            However Civil Partnerships are not recognised or teated as marriages in those, and other countries, where gay marriage is legal.

            Incidentally now that marriage is open to all couples, I think if Civil Partnerships are to remain they should also be available to couples of the opposite sex.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Exactly. Words. Out of. Mouth.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Wow, lot of assumptions in there. Nice of you to tell me what my opinions are though.

            I’m a libertarian mostly (which is not politically conservative), and actually not that religious but I recognize the value of faith to others and the necessity to keep religion in check with secularism and secularism in check with religion (any ideology needs to be held in balance by another). In my view secularism has taken too much of the upper hand and it’s leading to us swapping one bigotry for another. Tolerance is a two way street.

            I personally think religious marriage should be left to religions, if there is one that wants to accept gay marriage fine, if they don’t that’s up to them. The problem I have with gay marriage is that we have a state church and at some point Peter Tatchell or someone else will take it to court over it and despite government assurances, a crack will be found somewhere by some smart lawyer. Some anglicans might not mind, but others will and it would mean that there religion had been altered by a secular court and I find that profoundly illiberal. For those that are not religious, I think there is a common law solution.

            The only reason we’re having this conversation is that the state gets involved with marriage in the first place. Married couples have certain rights that come with the status and naturally gay couples want the same rights. I would argue that marriage is a personal decision, whether it be a religious marriage or common law marriage and so no extra state freebies should come with it. For those that want legal protection to go with it, there are contracts and every couple is free to sign one or not.

            Once again, I didn’t mention gay marriage originally PokerKnave did, and he too was making assumptions and putting words in my mouth just so he could vent the political chip he has on his shoulder.

          • pointlesswasteoftime

            Since when does the desire for equality for women and gays equal secular extremism?

          • Conway

            So when are men going to give birth? It’s unequal that they can’t, isn’t it?

          • pointlesswasteoftime

            I can’t believe these things need explaining in 2014. A woman can give birth because she is born with a uterus, has ovaries and is inseminated through her vagina, by a man.

            The baby gestates for nine months and then the woman gives birth.

            Because she is the one who has nurtured the child through pregnancy, strained her own body and then cares for the newborn, men often think they have the right to make other parts of their lives more difficult (i.e. expect them to work and raise the child, but pay them less for doing the same work a man would). Some men even think they don’t have to play any part in rearing the child. Other men think they should have the right to control what a woman does with her own body.

            So your childish fatuous example deserves to be shoved where the sun don’t shine. And I would suggest it’s not your uterus because I bet you are a “clever” man.

          • reg

            Why would the number of votes cast be different to the polls? The majority of the British public supported gay marriage – get over it.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            See the UK polling report website as they did a good analysis of the polls at the time and how the question asked could yield wildly different results. Furthermore, if there had been a referendum there would have been a much larger debate on potential implications for the CofE as a state church and other religions too due to legislative creep.

            This is important because in the consultation which received about 230,000 replies (way more than any poll), a small majority did indeed support civil same-sex marriage, but a majority were against the legislation impacting on religious ceremonies.

            If the UK had a strict separation of church and state this would be less of a problem, but we don’t, so it is.

          • Richard Saint

            Diggery, like Damaris I too wanted to express solidarity to your point of view. I too would have opposed gay marriage, and I am an atheist.

            I think there’s been a mistaken assumption that ‘absolute equality’ of any two completely disparate social entities can and should exist without causing any harm to anyone else or societal institutions as a whole. The question of gay marriage was framed in two ways: on one side, the social justice warriors fighting for equality who were displaying the open minds and tolerance. On the other, the dinosaurs from the 1950s, the bigots, fascists, homophobes, what you will. Now, regardless of what your opinion is on any issue – and none can deny that that which is voted for should be passed into law – the popular narrative which surrounds the consensus has a powerful influence on human psychology. It feels like true conservative moral opinions are quickly becoming completely unacceptable, which is a huge shame and in my opinion defeats the idea we live in a free society. The language of liberalism does tend to lend itself much more readily to narratives of empowerment and freedom. However, if one looks deeper it does not reflect the reality.

            I have learnt much of what the equality and feminist movements have protested for and won with regards to marriage in terms of no-fault divorces and alimony payments. Things liberals conveniently overlook in their pursuit of justice are the rising divorce rates, lower rates of marriage itself, the new demographic of single mothers living off the state, and the increasing phenomenon of sexless or discontented marriages. I do worry that allowing everybody to marry for the sake of equal nomenclature makes a mockery of a very important social institution, especially as civil unions bestow equal rights.

            While liberalism does de facto allow everyone the right to do largely the same things, it does not take into account the differences between separate societal entities. I’ll give another example – that of men and women. Only someone truly unaware of biological science would argue that women and men do not think and behave completely differently. Indeed, there are several studies on brain activity which prove as much. Consequently, it seems somewhat perverse to me that they are raised almost identically nowadays. Much as it would be nice for women to go around having lots of sex as men can, the reason historically this behaviour has been ‘slut-shamed’, as feminists happily remind us, is because there was a serious penalty for doing so – the risk of becoming pregnant. This was not done out of some selfish desire to oppress women – on the contrary, there was a truly altruistic concern behind the societal norms of this period – the idea that a child might be raised without the necessary guidestones of a mother and father. Of course, the traditional marriage supported this aim.

            Nowadays, we have seen the Sexual Revolution come and go, for better or for worse (I’m sure you can guess my view on this – I wrote a long essay on it which I could share if you are interested enough), and the laws on marriage have changed several times, usually to the detriment of men. The traditional marriage is on its last legs. Even if couples nowadays do get married, I find it saddening that perhaps the most important duty of the nuclear family, that of childcare, is outsourced as both parents work. I don’t think women shouldn’t work, or that they shouldn’t go into business, or be leaders (Margaret Thatcher is one of my ultimate idols). I just think many of them don’t want to – and that’s fine too. Women are, in general (and that is important), better at raising children, and much more empathetic and social than men. It shouldn’t be taboo to say so, but it is. There is nothing wrong with the traditional family (indeed, I’d argue there’s a lot RIGHT with it) and yet we tend to look upon it nowadays as backwards and immoral, when it arguably suits the needs of children, our future society, best. The problem with words and phrases like ‘progressivism’, ‘equality’ ‘celebrating diversity’ is that it frames within narrative, giving moral values to societal items that should be questioned just as any other. What some might look at as progress, others might see as degeneracy.

            It is my firm belief that every action does indeed have some kind of reaction. Nothing happens in a vacuum, and there are always consequences to any new law, even if it may at first glimpse seem like a push for equality is ‘not hurting anybody’. And that’s why I opposed gay marriage.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Thanks for your contribution, you make some very interesting points.

            I think the ‘social justice warriors’ of today see themselves as part of some unstoppable continuity or evolution. In reality public opinion, on the issue of social liberty or on any political issue actually, swings like a pendulum. The amount of swing might diminish over time but swing it still does. The victorian era and the ‘moral’ politics that went with it was a reaction to the politics of the preceding era. The application of free trade principles in the 19th century was a reaction to the failures of the previous policy of protectionism.

            In the UK today, the pendulum is beginning to swing back and those its swinging away from don’t like it and are trying to yank it back. It won’t work.

          • Richard Saint

            I absolutely agree on the pendulum analogy, and hope you’re right that it is truly happening now. Sadly, some of the actions of the recent left orthodoxy are likely to have lasting effects even as the public mood does shift back, as it will. Conservatism is largely about preserving traditions and cultural norms, some of which have already been defiled. I suppose the left would have easy pickings at making it seem like reinstating some of these traditions is ‘going backwards’. People may now be seeing sense, but it will be a long, long process.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            ” I suppose the left would have easy pickings at making it seem like reinstating some of these traditions is ‘going backwards’. People may now be seeing sense, but it will be a long, long process.”

            Of course they would, but all change is not progress. Progressive politics is progressive in name only, which is exactly why they put it in the name incidentally.

            From your photo you seem quite young, so I’m encouraged to see that some members of the next generation have seen the light. It gives me hope.

          • Richard Saint

            Absolutely, I’ve written about as much before. It’s doublespeak, using language which in its natural etymology had moral values to push a political agenda. It makes it very easy to dismiss those who question, and effectively upholds an entirely new type of prejudice while masquerading as doing the exact opposite. We’re each preaching to the converted, of course. I think we’re ideologically very similar.

            I’m 22. Don’t make the mistake of thinking that these beliefs are at all common amongst people in my age-group, though. I was raised in a broken home with parents who never communicated if not in argument. They should have divorced but never did due to financial reasons. I feel I’ve had to learn a lot on my own, and have much more still to learn. But I frequently write stuff to this effect on my social media, and find myself arguing against a huge barracking (of course, many of my friends are students). People are raised into liberalism, told what to think and accept from a young age through religious education, the mainstream media, and the twisting of words we’ve both mentioned. Again, it is changing. But amongst my generation, the shift seems to be a slow one.

          • Ordinaryman

            Richard, may I compliment you. I, at your age, would never have had the maturity or eloquence to express myself as you have done. I have grown pessimistic with age, but your comments have allowed me a spark of hope that civilisation can, indeed, progress and improve. You will come up against fierce opposition, but remain true to your beliefs and maintain an open mind. The whole of life is a learning experience, otherwise it’s devoid of meaning.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Lots of Tories and UKipers among the young. Some of them don’t know that’s what they are, but lots of them nonetheless. As soon as youreceive your first pay cheque and note the difference between what you earned and what you got, you move to the right substantially. Spongers stay left of course. For bleeding ever..That’s why Socialism was invented.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Diggery, you mention the pendulum swinging back – did you mean in terms of personal/social mores?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Hello Richard. I enjoyed your post & just wanted to add a point. Traditional western monogamous marriage is of most advantage to the woman. It is a framework in which the man is bonded into a life long commitment against his natural instincts (hence all the old jokes about the ‘millstone”) & forced to become (forgive me) a house-trained provider, thus freeing up the woman to care for children if that’s what she wants. It provides sanctions against infidelity, again hobbling man’s natural instincts.

            There is also more gender equality in monogamous than polygamous marriage. A man with four wives has far more power by playing off each against the other than a man with one wife. It’s notable that polygamous marriage usually goes hand in hand with easy divorce, so the woman is easily disposed of especially if her husband wishes to add a younger model to his ‘portfolio’.

            So our western model of marriage, although like all human institutions having many failings, provides the best protection for women by civilising & hobbling men! Without it, as you point out, mothers become brides of the state. And young men without marriage prospects (because women don’t need them) become feral.

          • moggie79

            You know that do you? You want to believe most other people share your prejudices and urge to restrict other people freedoms – they must have been lying to pollsters. Of course they must. UKIP posters certainly give the lie to the claim upthread that UKIP are libertarian. If they were, I might even consider voting for them. But they’re not – they’re regressive. The suggestion that we should base our society around a model that is acceptable to Islam is staggering.

            I’m not gay, I see myself as ‘conservative’ and Ive lived in a Muslim society. I share some of UKIPs views on Europe and immigration for example. There are limits, as with everything.

            But I do not as a matter of principle believe its any of my business who someone else chooses to sleep with and I do NOT believe it is the state’s right to restrict their freedoms because of their sexuality, assuming said sexuality involves consenting adults. Marriage is a right they should have, just as you and I have it. If churches choose to deny it – its their ball and they can take it home if they want. But that does not negate the right to marry for gay people any more than it negates the right to marry for atheists. Interesting of course that the churches here are more than happy to ignore religious rules to marry straight people who’ve divorced, lived together and had children outside wedlock but that’s another matter.

            Having lived in the kind of Muslim society you trumpet I am deeply glad to be British and living here with all its flaws. You have no idea what it is to live in a country that forcibly constrains other people’s basic freedoms, until you experience it. Its people like you that turn people like me off UKIP

          • Diggery Whiggery

            Who the hell mentioned UKIP?

            I replied to someone else on my position on polling and the consultation and why I believe a referendum would have yielded a no vote.

            As for the rest of your assumptions, read reply to rtj1211 and you’ll probably find that we agree on more things than you think. You won’t of course, because your not arguing against me, your venting anger at certain opinions that I have not expressed.

            I’m not trumpeting any muslim society. Never have, never will. However, the fact that muslim societies are heading to a more extreme islamism is due to the global culture war that is raging. Turkey is the perfect example. There will have to be some sort of compromise but that does not mean we should turn Britain more Islamic, quite the reverse.

            Nuance isn’t your thing is it.

            Stop reading between the lines to try and fit what people say to the political chip on your shoulder. Stop emoting start thinking.

          • moggie79

            Who the hell mentioned UKIP? Matthew Parris mentioned UKIP. Hadn’t you noticed the whole thread is about UKIP and UKIP supporters? Maybe you’re in the wrong place to pronounce on whats wrong with the world. If you’re not a UKIP voter though I do apologise for the assumption (and that one only) – but you must admit, you do fit the bill perfectly.

            I also suggest that accusing other people of having political chips on their shoulders is a bit rich given your own rant on social liberalism and the downfall of civilisation. Id say thats a political boulder up there.

            I *am* actually arguing against you I’m afraid given you say you as a libertarian oppose gay marriage – though I admit I cant find your answer to why you know the real hearts and minds of the people of Britain whatever they actually say our loud to pollsters. I look forward to seeing that one given your unprejudiced values.

            You blame the ‘decadence’ of the west (yes I know you didn’t use that exact word) for the response of radical Islam and imply – yes you do – that they must be appeased by the West changing our socially liberal ways . Is that reading between the lines? Because if thats not what you mean, then perhaps you should look again at what you wrote

            You say that Muslims were quite able to cope with our Western ways when we ran a society based on certain values. Now our society has dared to change (along the lines it was always going even in the 60s) – what can we expect but that young Muslims will react with outrage? So we will have to compromise – rein in our chosen liberal values to pander to a minority of people who came from another culture altogether and if you’re to be believed, are still wedded to it. Mind you social conservatives in the west share many values with Islam – many of them in practice, deeply unpleasant, as I have cause to know.

            Ironically we do agree on some things – I even accept that parts of PC culture are out of control- in the UK the politics of outrage, the belittling of Christianity in contrast to a craven attitude to certain other faiths, the fear of ‘racism that creates the climate for the outrages we’ve seen, the desperation to please and compromise thats seen schools in this country turned into indoctrination centres for radical islam. Ironically the social conservatives of islam have been brilliant at taking advantage of our desperate desire to be ‘fair’.

            All that said though, for all the inevitable flaws and complexities, I entirely embrace the doctrine of personal freedom and personal self determination which to me is the cornerstone of libertarianism and the liberal west. That means equality – whatever your gender, race or sexuality. In my book that means you are free to conduct your religion; it does not mean you can impose your religion on anyone else.

          • Diggery Whiggery

            “I *am* actually arguing against you I’m afraid given you say you as a libertarian oppose gay marriage ”

            I didn’t say that, I said I have a problem with it and I explained why in the post to rtj… that’s not the same thing. As I say nuance isn’t your thing.

            As for UKIP, yes Parris mentioned UKIP, but I didn’t. Personally, the libertarian bits of their prospectus interest me, but I feel they’re undermining it by chasing old Labour votes.

            “I also suggest that accusing other people of having political chips on their shoulders is a bit rich given your own rant on social liberalism and the downfall of civilisation. Id say thats a political boulder up there.”

            I didn’t criticize you for having a political chip on your shoulder (we all do), only that you read into my comments what you wanted to read so that you could respond to the views that you wanted to respond to.

            Once again, if you read my reply to the other guy, you’d understand that I’m not opposing gay marriage but that I oppose government getting involved in it. Gay marriage is only an issue because the state gets involved in marriage in the first place.

            As for our social liberalism, the only problem I have with it is that the freedom is often not tempered with responsibility and that is usually due to the state sticking its nose in and protecting people from the consequences of their actions. Most of the antisocial consequences of our social freedom comes from there IMHO.

            If more people recognised that with social freedom comes a responsibility to consider how your actions effect not only yourself but others, then I think that the anti-social consequences of that freedom would all but disappear. In that case I think most moderate muslims would find their place in society more easily and they’d wouldn’t therefore recoil from our society and look to their own extremists. Both sides need to take a step into the centre ground.

            There’s no such thing as complete freedom but I’m not advocating going back to the 60’s in this country or destroying women’s equality before the law or anything like that. However, I am saying that we should stop clumsily shoving our ideas of social liberalism on other cultures as a quid pro quo for trade and other things, because it’s having the opposite effect of the one we want. It’s causing those cultures to dig their heals in and retreat into their own extremism.

            You can stay camped on your position of no compromise if you like, but it will just mean that the culture wars will continue and it’s in no-one’s interest for it to do so.

          • Fergus Pickering

            People in UKIP hve different views on many things, like people in other vparties, don’t you know. We are united in supposing that there has been toomuch immigration and that we would be better off outside the horrible EU. Got it?

          • Simon_in_London

            “Opposing gay marriage = Al Qaeda” seems like a good example of the radicalism discussed above.

          • gfr

            No – let’s go back to the pre-1960s world, because nobody cares about a handful of perverts, and women are bad drivers..

          • Wessex Man

            do grow up!

        • andyrwebman

          “Unless we’re planning on deporting millions of people, which would be absurd”

          I suspect the idea will become less absurd with time – for instance, Geert Wilders has already proposed it.

          If the alternative to doing this was the death of western culture and its being subsumed into an exponentially growing Muslim majority, what would we do?

          It would never be an easy option, but I have no faith in our ability to contain Islam whilst preserving our own freedoms. When they become the majority they will be able to write the rules as they see fit.

        • Flintshire Ian

          I think that in actual fact from the 1970s onwards, Britain offered a tolerance to the incomers that has never been reciprocated. So they and their offspring now feel that the rules of our society do not apply to them.

        • John Croston

          “Unless we’re planning on deporting millions of people, which would be absurd…”
          Far from being absurd, it is the only thing that will ensure the future existence of our people. The alternative is to accept increasing terrorist attacks as Muslim numbers grow and ours decrease until we become a defenceless hated minority in our own country and end up like the Yaziris.

          Deportation was successful in Czechoslovakia and Poland after WW2 and in Algeria in the 1960s. Millions of unwanted people were expelled – and it worked. There are no Germans causing problems in the Sudetenland or the Polish Corridor these days.

        • MountainousIpswich

          An excellent and penetrating analysis that should be repeated as often as possible.

        • Simon_in_London

          I definitely think you have a point; the radical Totalitarian Humanism that has consumed Britain since 1997 did spur the growth of an equally radical reaction. Most Muslims felt a lot more comfortable in a conservative Christian culture than in Cool Britannia, and that did have an impact on the rapid growth of Islamism here.

          Modern Britain, America, and Europe are a massive departure from any moral norms ever seen before. I agree there is nothing at all moderate about our current cultures.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Did you ever read about the Roman Empire?

      • Rifleman1853

        No – they would have exactly the same attitudes as they do now (and as they have done for the last 1200 years or so), but they would find it a damn sight harder to bring their primitive attitudes and behaviour into non-Muslim countries, without the help of dhimmis like Parris.

      • Simon_in_London

        No, there is no prospect of the Muslim world being a liberal paradise, but there are plenty of other models, such as traditional autocratic monarchy and strong-man secular socialism. Without the people who try to impose Liberalism on the Arab-Muslim world I guess there might be less support for Al Qaeda (remember the neocons are avowed liberal democrats & supposedly wanted to bring liberal democracy to Iraq) but I don’t particularly buy the argument: obnoxious liberals do spur an anti-liberal reaction, but there are plenty of other elements at work.

    • Andrew Tucker

      ‘Social liberals create anarchy and call it paradise. They undermine the building blocks of civilization itself and then claim to defend it.’

      I suspect you’re old, Diggery. No shame in that.

      • Diggery Whiggery

        Is 38 old?

  • ChrisTavareIsMyIdol

    Matthew “Finger on the pulse” Parris :

    Educated in a private school in South Africa, then to Cambridge to study law. He had a promising career in Foreign and Commonwealth Office but was bored with it (something many working class people would love to be but never get the chance because daddy doesn’t know someone) so runs away to seek his fortune as Mrs T’s correspondence secretary. How did he get that job? Good question.

    Then on to be an MP, until he got bored again, when he moved to TV’s prestigious Weekend World, which had been running for 14 years. Thanks to him it sank without trace within 2 years.

    No wonder he can’t understand the working class, most of whom have to compete for jobs and fight damn hard for every penny.

    • cambridge to study law! wow, slam dunk, he must be stupid! glad we’ve got your contributions!

      • global city

        I think that list was to illustrate Parris’ cosseted life experience, not his intellect, or lack of.

        • ChrisTavareIsMyIdol

          Exactly. I’m afraid our friend is a little dim, and should probably be ignored.

      • Damaris Tighe

        And your point is (apart from sneering at ukippers)?

        • Jerome Leroy

          Its probably Mr Parris using an alias.

  • DG Jones

    Flippit has just about the measure of it, Parris. You are locked, Narcissus-like, into a perma-sneer of condescendence at this lumpy lumpenproletariat!

    However, I have to give you your due. You do hit upon, albeit at best unintentionally, and at worst begrudgingly, that populism isn’t borne of hate but of hope. The populist movement of the right – UKIP in this country, the Tea Party in the USA – have begun to succeed wildly because they foresee a better way for their country, a better life, a less intruded life. And if that is derided as naive fantasy, it is only because two generations of intrusion courtesy of Big State have embedded it thus.

    The other reason for the success of the populist right is that it is based not upon strategic vision and the top-down thinking so popular in party politics, but the freedom of expression and exchange in a democratic fashion by the people “at the bottom”. Sure, this approach may not work in the world of big business and corporate affairs, but politically it is the sign of a healthy democracy.

    Contrarily, what could be a clearer sign of a democracy in debilitation than the continued attacks and shut-downs upon individuals expressing ideas and discourse. One wonders from where the actual fascism emanates.

    Oh, and your comparison with the rise of Nazism (with caveats that you’re not comparing UKIP with Nazis, yadda yadda yadda) is disingenuous, precisely because Nazism WAS imposed / directed / steered from the top-down. It was one of the primary examples of Big State imposition in 20th Century history, so I have to disagree with you there.

    We do not expect you to understand, Matthew. You are kept in a lovely, cultured bubble, from which I would ordinarily would suggest you escape from time to time to see what life is like out there, but your recent hatchet job on Clacton impresses upon me that you are not only insulated, but also immoveable in your doctrine.

    But perhaps Jarvis Cocker put it better:

    “You will never understand
    What it feels to live your life
    With no meaning or control
    And with nowhere left to go.
    You are amazed that they exist!
    And they burn so bright while you can only wonder why!”

    • DougDaniel

      “Oh, and your comparison with the rise of Nazism (with caveats that you’re not comparing UKIP with Nazis, yadda yadda yadda) is disingenuous, precisely because Nazism WAS imposed / directed / steered from the top-down. It was one of the primary examples of Big State imposition in 20th Century history, so I have to disagree with you there.”

      Nazism wasn’t imposed by the state – the Nazis took over the state. Hitler started off making speeches in beer halls, and the NSDAP grew from there (which you’re tacitly admitting by talking of “the rise of Nazism”…) It wasn’t an ideology imposed by the political elite.

      Populism isn’t born from hope as you suggest, it’s born from despair. Hitler tapped into people’s fears and offered them a solution: blame it on the Jews. This is no different to the populist right tapping into people’s fears today and blaming it on immigrants. Where Hitler railed against the Treaty of Versailles, the populist right today rail against the EU or ECHR. There’s no equivalent of the storm troopers yet, although some might disagree and point towards the likes of the EDL…

      None of that is to say we’re in the middle of 1930s Germany right now. But then, fascism didn’t start in 1930s Germany…

      • DG Jones

        Doug, I take your point about hope/vs despair, but they are different sides of the same coin; despair at the way things are – hope that things can improve.

        And I concede the point about the ‘rise’ of Nazism from beer halls, I can’t refute that.

        But here’s the key difference: the rise of Nazism was designed to smash the (skewed version of) capitalism that filtered through the Weimar Republic. And it did this by escalating into Big State and the imposition of rigid social ideals and conformity.

        Today’s populism wants exactly the opposite: to reduce the size of the state, give more freedoms and liberties back to localities and individuals, and revert to the type of mid-20th century capitalism (not corporatism) that improved people’s lives, prospects, and social mobility.

        • DougDaniel

          “revert to the type of mid-20th century capitalism (not corporatism) that improved people’s lives, prospects, and social mobility.”

          Except in situations where “people” refers to the unemployed, the disabled or the non-indigenous, right?

          You’re following mantras set down by a former stockbroker, for crying out loud.

          • global city

            Your denouncements are based on fallacies.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Did DG Jones say anything that would not include non-indigenous people currently living here? As is usual with people like you, you’re not listening.

          • DougDaniel

            We’re talking about “today’s populism”, which includes the drive to reduce immigration, stop immigrants from receiving benefits, etcetera. As is usual with people like you, you’re incapable of understanding wider points.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Oh yes, I did indeed understand your wider points. I have a master’s degree in politics from LSE, so quite able to comprehend them. And I support UKIP.

          • DougDaniel

            Don’t worry, it was quite clear you support UKIP.

          • mohdanga

            What’s the matter with reducing immigration and not allowing people who have moved to the UK, never contributed but allowed to jump on the social services train as soon as they set foot in the country????? Since when is allowing mass immigration some kind of natural law not ever to be tampered with? The country is being changed for the worse because of this and yet the solution is more of the same. Talk about incapable of understanding wider points.

          • DougDaniel

            The idea that masses of people migrate to the UK just to pick up benefits is a myth, created by and for racist idiots. Immigrants claim proportionately fewer benefits than UK-born people. They come here to work and pay taxes, often doing jobs that UK-born people have no interest in doing. Some sectors of the economy would practically grind to a halt if it wasn’t for immigrant workers.

            So there’s your answer. The reason it’s wrong to reduce immigration for the reasons you state is because they’re false reasons. Just admit you don’t like people who don’t look like you – at least it would be honest.

          • mohdanga

            “The idea that masses of people migrate to the UK just to pick up benefits is a myth, created by and for racist idiots. Immigrants claim proportionately fewer benefits than UK-born people. They come here to work and pay taxes, often doing jobs that UK-born people have no interest in doing.”

            Which is why 75% of Muslim women and 50% of the men don’t work….yup, real contributors.

          • DougDaniel

            Ahh, linking to a renowned anti-Islamic blog. Well, that’s not going to be cherry picking data at all, is it?

            “Muslim” is not a nationality. There is such a thing as British-born Muslims. So, is it immigration you’re against, or Muslims?

          • mohdanga

            Both, actually, because Britain and the West do not need more 3rd world immigrants who don’t assimilate or contribute. But keep up the ‘diversity is our strength’ mantra as the country slips into 3rd world status.
            And Gellar’s website links to gov’t publications which include these stats….are they anti-Islamic?? Try reading the actual article before spouting off.

          • DougDaniel

            I didn’t say “diversity is strength”, I just don’t believe in blaming minority groups for things that aren’t their fault. But if you think the UK is in any danger of becoming a third-world country, then you really are a moron.

          • mohdanga

            And you’re the moron for ignoring reality. Try checking the demographics for Muslims and 3rd world enrichers in the UK and what it holds for the future of Britain. Import the 3rd world, become the 3rd world.

      • Brimstone52

        “There’s no equivalent of the storm troopers yet…”

        The EU is developing its own army and police force as we speak.

        The Tory Party Brown Shirts and the Socialist Workers Party have formed a perfect union in the masterfully ironically named Unite Against Fascism.

        • global city

          UAF/SWP/Hope not Hate are the latter day Brown Shirts

          Matthew doesn’t mind this, as they are his storm troopers. He no doubt views them as the enlightened vanguard.

      • global city

        I think you missed an obvious section from the timeline there

      • andyrwebman

        “Hitler tapped into people’s fears and offered them a solution: blame it
        on the Jews. This is no different to the populist right tapping into
        people’s fears today and blaming it on immigrants.”

        Only true if you can demonstrate that there are no issues from immigration – which you can’t. If there are issues arising from it, then it’s a true point which happens to also have popular appeal.

        People in the North and london in particular have seen a vast cultural change, so their areas resemble a pocket of the middle east. The sheer nubmers of people in the country make it unpleasant to live in.

        People have been screaming about this for decades and it won’t go away.

        • DougDaniel

          No, manipulating people’s fears is manipulating people’s fears, regardless of how baseless or otherwise those fears may be. But it’s pretty easy to demonstrate actually. Just take a look at Clacton, which has levels of immigration far below the UK average, and yet still thinks immigrants are the root of their problems.

          Tell me, what are the issues to which the answer is “blame the immigrants”?

          “People in the North and london in particular have seen a vast cultural change, so their areas resemble a pocket of the middle east. “

          Here’s a challenge for you: tell me why this is a problem, without being racist.

          • Absolutely_Passionate

            @DougDaniel > If you threw a boat party with free drinks and food and the boat sank under the weight of guests, would it be the guests fault for availing themselves of your hospitality or your fault for allowing too many revellers?

          • DougDaniel

            If you can’t make your point without hiding behind spurious metaphors that don’t even work (the percentage of benefit claimants who are immigrants is much lower than the percentage of immigrants in the UK as a whole – people come here to work and pay taxes), then I think that rather proves my point.

          • Absolutely_Passionate

            @DougDaniel > So perhaps you could tell us why it takes two weeks to see a doctor, we can’t get our children into schools within reasonable travelling distance, and there’s a mile long queue for any vacant living accommodation.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Rename him DougDenial.

          • DougDaniel

            It takes two weeks to see a doctor (well, does it really?) because there aren’t enough doctors due to cuts to NHS spending, a problem which would be exacerbated if immigrants were stopped from being able to come here to study and practice medicine.

            You can’t get your children into schools within a reasonable travelling distance because there aren’t enough schools, because spending on education is being reduced.

            You can’t find vacant living accommodation because there aren’t enough houses being built, because spending on house building is being reduced.

            Now there’s a common theme running through those, and it’s not immigration. I could give you a suggestion, but I’ve got a feeling you probably wouldn’t like it, because it involves (whisper it) increasing taxes.

            Once we stop immigrants getting in and these problems aren’t solved, who will you start blaming instead?

          • Chris Morriss

            Just read what you have written and use Ockham’s razor to cut through the obfuscation. Perhaps, just perhaps, there is another single answer to all of the questions that is very likely to be both simpler and more accurate than the ones you suggest.

          • DougDaniel

            Actually, Ockham’s razor goes against blaming immigration, because doing so requires you to make a lot of assumptions.You’re assuming immigrants use the NHS as much as (or maybe more than) indigenous folk – in fact, you’re assuming they even know how to register with a doctor. You’re assuming the removal of immigrants wouldn’t lead to a disproportionate loss of doctors. You’re assuming immigrants have a negative net effect on NHS budgets.

            Well, I say “you’re assuming”, but you’re not actually making any of those assumptions personally – you’re just going “uuurgh, there’s a problem, let’s blame the immigrants.”

          • Simon Fay

            Oh, let me see…maybe…I dunno…maybe the native population didn’t actually want to live in a foreign land. Sad and provincial, though that is.

            I take your point though. If you think about it, all property is really theft, and some kids who suffer sexual abuse later avow that it was the making of them.

          • DougDaniel

            “If you think about it, all property is really theft, and some kids who suffer sexual abuse later avow that it was the making of them.”

            To clarify: are you saying immigrants are to blame for child sex abuse? Bearing in mind Jimmy Savile came from Leeds…

            (Oh and if you’re saying immigrants are to blame for a housing shortage, then no, governments who haven’t built enough homes are to blame for the housing shortage.)

          • Simon Fay

            I expect Jimmy blacked himself up for much of his prolific abusing career, cunningly deflecting blame onto innocent taxi drivers and kebab sellers. And even if he wasn’t responsible for all of it, well, it’s up to the State and its captive native human capital to service the randy foreign entrepeneurs’ needs one way or another

          • DougDaniel

            It’d be a lot quicker if you just said “I don’t like immigrants because I’m racist”.

          • Damaris Tighe

            You’d like to think that because it keeps your ready-made categories in order. But consider, many people don’t like mass immigration from third world countries because of culture, not race.

          • DougDaniel

            What part of “I expect Jimmy blacked himself up” and “randy foreign entrepreneurs” did you not understand to be racist?

          • Damaris Tighe

            What part of a sarcastic comment did you not understand, because you see racism in every anti-mass immigration post?

          • DougDaniel

            Defending your racist viewpoint with sarcasm and using racist language sarcastically are not the same thing. He was doing the first. Are you his boyfriend or something?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Why do you assume I’m a man? For someone so concerned with racism I’d have thought you would be equally concerned to avoid sexism.

          • DougDaniel

            Are you a woman?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Does it matter?

          • DougDaniel

            It’s pretty relevant to your accusation, yeah.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Yes I’m a woman. Damaris is a Greek woman’s name.

          • DougDaniel

            Ah well, I assumed wrong then. Congratulations on proving that it’s not just men who come on comment sections of right-wing rags to doggedly defend the right to discriminate against immigrants, though.

          • Damaris Tighe

            You see, your thinking is full of stereotypes despite (or maybe because of) your inclination to see racism everywhere. I’m female, I’m from an immigrant family, & I’m highly educated.

          • DougDaniel

            And yet you’re on the internet trying to defend discrimination against immigrants. Ah well.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Where in any of my replies have I defended discrimination against immigrants living here? I’m opposed to further mass immigration.

          • DougDaniel

            Oh dear, you actually think putting “mass” at the start makes a difference, don’t you?

          • Damaris Tighe

            Of course it does.

          • Chris Morriss

            If you were a little more learned, perhaps the name “Damaris” might give you a teeny-weeny clue?

          • mohdanga

            How about “I don’t like immigrants because I prefer to be with people similar to myself in custom, language and heritage”? You know, just like people in every other country and society in the world. Where’s the outrage over Japan’s non-immigration? Do you advocate mass immigration and multiculturalism in non-white, non-Western countries? If you don’t advocated for this aren’t you racist?

          • DougDaniel

            I advocate allowing people to live where they want without fear of being harangued by dimwitted racists who want to blame them for all their own problems.

            Oh and “I don’t like immigrants because I prefer to be with people similar to myself in custom, language and heritage” is just a long-winded way of saying what I suggested.

            Please learn how to spell before replying in future. You wouldn’t want people to think English isn’t your first language, would you?

          • mohdanga

            “Please learn how to spell before replying in future. You wouldn’t want people to think English isn’t your first language, would you?”
            Ever made a spelling mistake in your life, Mr. Mensa??

          • DougDaniel

            Funny you should say that, I did an official Mensa test with a bad hangover once, and still passed.

            Spelling isn’t tested in a Mensa test, however. I learned how to spell by paying attention in English.

          • mohdanga

            And you’ve never made a spelling mistake once in your life, right?

          • DougDaniel

            Several times, but they happen with far less frequency than yourself.

          • Damaris Tighe

            So governments should build more & more homes to accommodate anyone who wishes to come here?

          • DougDaniel

            That’s kind of the point of having a government housing policy, yeah.

          • mohdanga

            How about you donate your house to the wonderful immigrants?

          • DougDaniel

            That’s certainly a unique solution to housing problems. It’s pretty stupid, though.

          • mohdanga

            And your solution of the gov’t building more and more homes to house non-contributing immigrants makes perfect sense.

          • DougDaniel

            Government capital spending projects tend to stimulate the economy, so aye, it’d be pretty sensible.

            But you’re an idiot who’s convinced that immigrants come here to live off benefits despite statistics (the real ones, not the carefully-selected ones from anti-Islamic blogs), so I doubt you’re going to change your mind on this.

          • mohdanga

            And you’re and idiot for not looking around you and seeing what is actually happening. House prices through the roof, congestion, social services stretched, schools overflowing with non-English speaking students….what’s not to like.
            You can find similar info on here…but this gorup is probably anti-Islamic as well so why bother.

          • DougDaniel

            No, they’re anti-immigration. Not all immigrants are Muslims, and not all Muslims are immigrants, but it’s telling that you confuse the two terms.

            If you cared to look beyond the easy target of immigrants, you’d find the real reasons for the problems you identify. UK governments are quite happy to see house prices rise, because the nature of the UK economy means growth is (over-)dependent on the housing market, and governments like to be able to claim they’ve created growth. Social services are stretched because the government is implementing austerity cuts. And so on and so forth.

            The problem is you want to believe immigration is the source of the problems, because it’s easier to blame them than to recognise the fundamental changes the UK needs to make, mainly that you simply cannot have decent public services without taxing people properly. Unfortunately, once you’ve stopped immigration, you’ll still have these problems, so you’ll have to find another scapegoat instead. Luckily for you, the unemployed and the disabled are already being lined up next.

          • mohdanga

            “Social services are stretched because the government is implementing austerity cuts.”
            Uh,no, they are stretched because there are too many people collecting benefits that haven’t contributed.
            So mass immigration has nothing to do with increased congestion, overcrowded schools and hospitals, lack of sufficient public housing, ethnic ghettoes (see Tower Hamlets) and increases in public debt to fund all of this? As an experiment the government should stop all non-essential immigration for five years and see what happens. I doubt the country would crumble. Somehow the UK managed to survive up until the 1950s without immigration from 3rd world countries…yet now without all of these freeloaders the country won’t survive.
            And where did I say that the unemployed and disabled should be made scapegoats? There are enough problems with the native born population, there is no need to import more!

          • Chris Morriss

            You know that’s a really fascist remark don’t you?

          • DougDaniel

            Oh wow, that’s even more moronic than your “urgh, maybe you’re the racist” comment. Don’t throw around terms you don’t understand, unless you can explain why “that’s kind of the point of having a government housing policy, yeah” is a fascist remark.

          • Damaris Tighe

            I’m assuming he’s referring to your enthusiasm for the command economy, a core fascist policy.

          • DougDaniel

            The command economy is a core tenet of communism, not fascism. But that’s beside the point really, because suggesting governments should be building houses isn’t a call for a command economy. All governments build houses, and I’m fairly sure no one would describe the UK as a command economy…

          • Damaris Tighe

            Doesn’t Rotherham & all the other towns where similar crimes are happening strike you as at least one problem of immigration? And I see it as a problem of culture, not of race.

          • DougDaniel

            I see it as a problem of law and order, but then I don’t feel the need to find ways of making immigrant-bashing sound acceptable.

            How would stopping immigrants getting into the country have prevented the culture of sex abuse that was prolific in the BBC amongst the likes of Jimmy Savile? What about priests in the Catholic church? Or is it only when the perpetrator is non-white that you decide it’s a “cultural” problem?

          • Damaris Tighe

            (1) I’m descended from immigrants. My objection is to mass immigration from culturally incompatable countries. (2) I’ve answered your second question comprehensively in another part of this thread.

          • DougDaniel

            Rolf Harris comes from Australia. Would Australia be on your list of culturally-incompatible countries? What would the criteria be? And do you have the statistics to show that immigrants from specific countries commit certain crimes to justify this blanket assumption that everyone from these countries is a potential criminal?

          • mohdanga

            “How would stopping immigrants getting into the country have prevented the culture of sex abuse that was prolific in the BBC amongst the likes of Jimmy Savile?” It wouldn’t….but it would have stopped the grooming gangs. See how logic works?

          • DougDaniel

            That’s not logic, that’s putting two and two together and coming up with five. “A gang of immigrants committed a crime, therefore we must stop immigration.”

            Jimmy Savile was from Leeds. Should we deport everyone from Leeds? It would have prevented Savile raping all those people if we’d had a policy of deporting people from Leeds all those years ago. Bloody liberals, refusing to deport people from Leeds on the spurious supposition that not everyone from Leeds is like Jimmy Savile. This country, eh?

          • Chris Morriss

            And the grooming gangs have raped orders of magnitude more young girls than Saville ever did.

          • andyrwebman

            “what are the issues to which the answer is “blame the immigrants”?”

            1. The fact that this country’s population is as high as it is. All other considerations aside, without immigration the population would be lower by millions.

            And I consider a lower population a good thing – just as I consider all the extra house building and further expansion of our towns and villages to be an evil thing. Sick of the human swarm turning a beautiful country into an anthill.

            Consider the question “what is the maximum desirable steady state population of Britain”? Immigration proponents act as if it can go up forever, which it can’t – it’s dreadfully short term thinking. On the other hand, I think that for the environment’s sake alone we should aim for 40 million or less.

            2. The strain placed on teachers in schools where there are children speaking 5 or more different languages in one class. Their slow comprehension also slows down the rate of learning for the native English speaking children – ruining their education. This hits the poor students the most

            3. The increasing ghettosim and Balkanisation of our country – whilst a gradual influx could have been absorbed into the culture, rapid influx causes people to not try and assimilate. Thus we develop areas holding increasingly different values, and the level of trust and co-operation in society decreases.

            4. The increasing burden of useless people – in a minimum wage economy jobs are few and need to be skilled, high tech ones. We can produce goods the world wants, but we don’t need many people to do it – and can’t beat the third world for labour intensive manufacturing because they can undercut us. The excess unskilled people just take up space and available housing in an already crowded country.

            “Here’s a challenge for you: tell me why this is a problem, without being racist”

            Partly it depends on two things

            1. Your definition of racism

            If your problem is not with the race of people but the culture they embody then you are not – in my opinion – racist, but rather “culturist”. Culture and sets of values are a valid point to judge people by, although not in a knee jerk and uninformed manner.

            However, if you observe the fact that Islamic countries have greater levels of repression of the freedoms that we hold dear, and a greater tendency towards terrorism and strife, you have a legitimate reason for wanting to control the level of Islam in your area.

            Read this for further evidence that this view isn’t bigotry but rational –

            Should we not care that so many people have come to us from a country where they hold these views?

            If you furthermore observe that their birth rate happens to be much higher than ours – and you understand the power of exponential growth – then you have a sense of a ticking clock, draining away the time until those who share your values are a minority.

            If you note that dislike of Islam is not just a western phenomenon – Hindus and Buddhists worldwide have expressed concerns about the growth of Islam in their areas – then you realise it isn’t just blind white supremacist racism, but a recognition of a rational fear that is shared by many worldwide.

            2. Is racism always wrong?

            To me, the justification for not being racist lies in the assumption that one race of people aren’t different from us in ways that matter. If, for example, 50% of blue skinned people were murderers, you’d be justified in keeping them out entirely.

            Is there any similar property of the immigrants we have? The one I would mention is high birth rate – it’s easy to see how certain countries are overflowing with people despite the number of people who emigrate to Europe – because of an overly high birth rate.

            Whether or not it’s racist depends whether the undeserably high birth rate is cultural (in which case it’s not racism but culturism) or whether their is some genetic propensity towards high breeding – in which case racism on these grounds would be a rational prejudice.

            In either case, the native population can see a rapid and exponential increase of a culture that could very well undo all the hard won gains in freedoms and human rights attained in the west.

            Whether or not it’s “racist” to oppose it should be of secondary concern to the overwhelming need to oppose it.
            Don’t let the anti racism tail wag the dog of all other concerns.

          • DougDaniel

            Trying to define racism and explain why not all racism is bad – yeah, that’s pretty racist. You lose the challenge, I’m afraid.

          • Chris Morriss

            If you really cannot see yourself why it is a problem, then perhaps it’s you who is the racist.

          • DougDaniel

            Okay Einstein, why is it racist to not see a problem there?

          • Roberto

            “No, manipulating people’s fears is manipulating people’s fears, regardless of how baseless or otherwise those fears may be.”

            So, if a politician (or anyone) identifies a group of people as causing or contributing to a problem, you would invariably describe that as “manipulating people’s fears”?

            Would, for example, villagers living near an illegal gypsy camp be “manipulating people’s fears” if they asserted that its residents were responsible for a rise in crime? Was Churchill “manipulating people’s fears” when he spoke of the dangers of German rearmament in the run-up to WWII?

            Your position is absurd.

          • DougDaniel

            Churchill did not use the rise of the Nazis to get the public to start blaming immigrants, the unemployed, the disabled and any other minority group for problems caused by bankers and a failed economic model.

            Your position is absurd.

      • Alexsandr

        NAZIs also got to power through violence. They had a private army of ex WW1 soldiers who saw their elite had sold them down the river. The SA was its own private army
        If you fail to understand people living in a regime run by violent and armed bullies, and who are from a culture of obedience to authority, you wont understand the rise if Nazis in germany
        And anyway, anti-jew feeling had been rife in that part of Europe for generations, so that was nothing new.
        Read Winter by Len Deighton. OK, its a novel, but gives some perspective to Germany at that time.

        • DougDaniel

          None of which makes the slightest bit of difference to what I said. And what, are you trying to make out that xenophobia/racism is a new phenomenon in England?

    • global city

      The Court of Louis XVI no doubt were dismissing the rabble in Paris in exactly the same way that princess Matthew does today.

      I wonder if he took a tray of fine pastries down to Clacton when he visited there a few weeks ago?

  • edithgrove

    I think Matthew it may be democracy that’s smacked you in the face, rather than Nazism. Its been a bit of a shock for you and now you relate your experience to that of jews, homosexuals and other minorities under Adolf Hitler. You aren’t, of course ,in their position, you’re a member of a comfortable and privileged elite who has poured nastiness on the good people of Clacton, about people who are different from yourself or who don’t belong to your group. Can you imagine how offensive, how opportunist, how phoney your victimhood seems to people who have endured real persecution or to many of your readers?

  • sian

    It is very easy to be ” paranoid” when the UK’s sovernighty has been systematically dismantled over a generation and no vote has been allowed on any of the treaties other than the original entry to a common market.

  • AJH1968

    In the face of numerous outrages (Rotherham the murder of Lee Rigby 7/7 and countless others) I feel the British public have displayed the patience of Job. When in pure desperation they vote UKIP a legitimately democratic the only thing the Elite can do is indulge in nasty vituperative. Perhaps if the established parties had taken their concerns seriously and not abrogated their responsibility they would not be facing a rout at the poll stations. For the record, UKIP does not indulge in openly xenophobic rabble rousing and neither does it advocate pogroms of any sort as the Author so disingenuously implies.

  • Okay, so I’ll avoid insult, because Matthew will simply dismiss that. Let me instead pose a few questions: if UKIP voters are eye-glazed sheep, what are Labour voters, backing their own impoverishment because their grandparents did? If UKIP is purely populist, why then are we opposing the Iraq bombing, when every survey shows a majority of the population backs it? If our members are the type that’s easily led, why then are they themselves the backbone and engine of this insurrection, building political change from the grassroots up, across the country? And if we are the “mentally ill”, how is it that it is the other parties, and their pals in Brussels, who are resolutely pursuing the same failing policies to dig us out of our mess, that failed so many times before?

    It’s not crazy to want control of your own country Matthew. If it is, then how many billions have been insane down the generations? Sovereignty and national identity have mattered for as long as there have been nation states – perhaps one day they will not, but today, they do. I believe in this country – I am proud to be English, and I will not let it be eradicated from the earth.

    You’re a bright man Matthew, but you are wrong on this. We should meet – how about a debate? I’d be happy to do it, but perhaps you’d prefer a senior Kipper. Either way I’m sure something could be arranged. I don’t like to think of so many people getting this SO wrong.

    • Alan Wager

      Are you seriously claiming Ukip isn’t populist? And your example is being against a military intervention, in Iraq? I mean… c’mon.

      • Brimstone52

        As I’ve said elsewhere, “Populist” is currently the sneering description of democracy.

        I seem to recall that Mr Parris’s favourite female Prime Minister won a number of elections on the basis of “populist” policies.

        • maggie t was not populist. it is an insult, and can be used cheaply, but at best it means a policy designed primarily to attract votes, above all else. that’s mr farage in a tea-cup.

          • global city

            Populist vs elitist

            Why are you content to be led by the nose by your betters?

          • Brimstone52

            As I said “populist” has become the current insult by those who despise democracy.

            “policy designed primarily to attract votes”

            Which party has policies designed to repel votes?

            Thatcher was extremely “populist”. You might find this revealing…

            “Thus Mrs Thatcher was reborn as a Grantham housewife. Out went the grating voice, hats and pearls of the aspiring Tory grande dame; in came the softer voice, kitchen photo-opportunities in her apron, and endless homilies about corner-shop values and balancing the books. She read her Hayek (which she was also prone to produce from her handbag), but it was her new populist style that made her a winner.”


            And this…

            Margaret Thatcher’s populist instinct had
            made her more cautious in these areas, but after the election
            success of 1987, when she saw her monetary policies threatened by
            runaway costs, she introduced dramatic reform in all these areas.
            Again they were not properly implemented until she had been forced
            from office.


          • Jerome Leroy

            Cleggs “decriminalisation of cannabis” and “reduction or removal of tuition fees” aren’t populist?

          • Alexsandr

            i dont think decriminalisation of cannabis will be popular with parents who have teenage kids, who live in fear of their kids taking up drugs.

          • davidraynes

            It isn’t. YouGov are just doing an online poll on it-amongst other things

            I saw it this morning, over 70% against when I voted.

            BUT it is far more popular with the young LibDems.

            The LibDems make much of their policy by what people odd enough to join them, think and support. That is why their policies are so often, self reinforcing madness.

          • andagain

            The LibDems make much of their policy by what people odd enough to join them, think and support. That is why their policies are so often, self reinforcing madness.

            Something they have in common with every other party…

          • davidraynes

            Not exactly. All Libdem policy has to be approved by a vote of conference. In that respect it is different. Of course conference consists of enthusiastic nutters. Drug legalization came up that way.

          • andagain

            Well,they are a more extreme case than most, but the same dynamic happens in all of them.

            Incidentaly, about half the population want to legalise cannabis, so its not as nutty a policy as all that.


            Governments do less popular things all the time.

          • davidraynes

            It is quite wise not to believe all the propaganda.

            There is so much business money behind legalization (Soros, Branson etc) that things get heavily corrupted and spun

            The YouGov poll I saw this morning, was at over 70% against, when I responded to it.

            The article that you point at, also highlights Cameron and Obama and their earlier views.

            Cameron has certainly changed his mind, On 6th April 2008 he responded to that effect to questions from Adam Boulton on Sky News. It was a planted question from me, designed to pin him down. Very difficult for him to reverse again.

            The Chair of the UK Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, Professsor Les Iversen also seems to have changed his mind and he, historically, was an active campaigner.

            Both the major UK parties are against it so it is unlikely to happen and an active LibDem on it, Evan Harris, lost his seat last time, probably partly over his attitude to drugs legalization.

            Even the most active UK legalisation/normalization lobby group, “Transform” (part financed by Soros), now say that “cannabis is dangerous” and “more harmful than we thought”.

            So altogether unlikely.

          • rtj1211

            I don’t think that it’s stopped great waves of addiction in teenagers in the past, you know. In pubic schools or sink estates.

          • Colonel Mustard

            That is nonsense, putting the cart before the horse. You can keep denying polling for concern about immigration as much as you like but Farage is the receptacle for the concern not its instigator. And that is simply because all the other parties are living in cloud cuckoo land on the issue.

            In our minority-left dominated society any majority expression of right wing views that are disagreed with become “populist”. It’s the same sneering elitism that lefties deploy when they proclaim their intellectual superiority over the “right”.

          • Lady Magdalene

            So selling council houses at vastly discounted rates to their residents wasn’t populist?
            Selling shares in publicly-owned businesses, such as BT and British Gas, at a discounted rate to ordinary people wasn’t populist?
            Cutting taxes wasn’t populist?
            Who are you trying to kid.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Imagine it. A party had policies that will attract votes! Where wil it ever end. We want parties with policies that LOSE votes.

      • Jerome Leroy

        If UKIP are populist then so was Blairs new Labour, extremely populist.

        • andagain

          Then Blairs new Labour can’t have been elitist, can it? And yet a lot of UKIPers seem to think it was,,,

    • Wessex Man

      He’s not bright it’s just a rumour he likes to spread!

    • Kohagen

      Good points, well made.

    • Patricia

      “You’re a bright man Matthew….”

      I’m not so sure anymore – his article made him seem rather like a ballerina storming offstage because she had a hole in her tights.

      • Fergus Pickering

        I am sure Matthew never has a hole in his tights.

  • Rebecca Baty

    DG James has it spot on. The social policy of Naziism was similar to today’s top down behavioral edicts. It is telling that it was the Nazis who wanted to ban smoking, and to enforce standards of personal health and diet. Top down social engineering is the province of your left Matthew. People focus on the death camps and not all the other aspects of National Socialist philosophy. Your repeated sneering at anyone who disagrees with you is typical of that mind set which ends in reeducation camps. Usually at gunpoint.

    • Richard Saint

      Indeed. It has also always been a staple of socialism to invent new meanings of words to suit twisted political agendas – the Orwellian ‘doublespeak’. The positive-discrimination rainbow ‘equality’ lunacy we see today is just another – politically correct and state-endorsed – type of bigotry. Gays over straights. Women over men. Minorities over whites.

      The liberal language of lies has no inherited etymology. ‘Homophobe’ – who has an irrational fear of gays? True evil happens when people are told what to think, and not how to. Political correctness keeps people who are getting screwed quiet about what is going on around them. The result is that the left are paradoxically protecting some of the truly intolerant cultures which go against the minority rights they have, as the narrative goes, ‘fought so hard’ for.

      How is any of this mind control different from warped Nazi concepts like ‘blood and soil’, or ‘living space’?

      • AJH1968

        Excellent post Sir!

      • andyrwebman

        Madder than the Nazis in many ways. At least the Nazis had a clear idea of protecting their own interests. The left, as you rightly pointed out, seem to be hell bent on introducing elements who would destroy both them and the rest of western culture.

        • Richard Reeves

          Vote Labour. …. wake up with Rotherham.
          In fact vote LibLabCon. …. wake up with Rotherham!

      • Colonel Mustard

        “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

  • stickywicket

    In his recent musings, Matthew Parris has demonstrated he simply has no idea what is causing rising levels of anger in the country and he would rather scream insults at those who dare to disagree with the metropolitan liberal consensus.

    Well, Mr Parris, when everyone thinks the same thing, then no-one is thinking at all.

    And yes, there is a problem with uncontrolled immigration. There is nothing particularly right wing about wishing to implement a points based system for all immigrants like many other countries do. Don’t you think it would be more “liberal” to allow more highly skilled technology workers from India into the country and fewer cabbage pickers form eastern europe?

    And yes, we do have a problem with the hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil authorities in places like Rotherham, and yes there is a pernicious and dangerous culture amongst a significant minority of Muslims in these places who treat young white girls as fair game.

    I personally don’t have a problem with London, or with rich people, provided they have earned their wealth in a fair way and have not relied upon crony capitalism. And that is the problem many have with some of the senior business people: not enough people in banking have taken responsibility for the financial crash and too many wealthy landowners are taking over-generous subsidies for running bat chomping, bird slicing eco-crucifix wind farms.

    Matthew, have you considered that it is you who are part of the mass psychosis?

    • Bob Sleigh

      “Don’t you think it would be more “liberal” to allow more highly skilled
      technology workers from India into the country and fewer cabbage pickers
      form eastern europe?”

      Yes, probably, but who will pick the cabbages?

      • stickywicket

        Unemployed citizens of the UK. Surely even the illiterate can be trained enough to work in the fields.

        • andyrwebman

          Agreed. The argument “we need immigrants to do the jobs we won’t” is shocking – and it seems that after a while they stop being willing to do these jobs – otherwise we wouldn’t have to import more, would we?

        • Wessex Man

          They were working in the fields until the work gangs came in and undercut them way below the minimum wage.

          • FDUK

            No they weren’t.

            Many people stopped picking fruit and veg when the National Minimum Wage came in. This was because they couldn’t pick enough to earn NMW and often treated the work as pin money anyway.

            Farmers can include the cost of accommodation on the farm for foreign workers earning NMW. This makes it economic to employ foreign workers but not those who live in the UK.

            In addition, much of the work is rural and seasonal, while the unemployed are urban and not looking for temp work as this disrupts their benefits. This means when you leave temp work you have to go weeks with no money, not a very enticing prospect when you’re earning NMW.

      • ChrisTavareIsMyIdol

        If they can’t be picked for a decent wages then maybe the UK isn’t the right place to grow cabbages? Maybe they should be grown in Poland and the UK land turned over to more productive use.

  • Geoff103

    So, when Parris writes: “I was rude about Ukip voters. I can take rudeness in return. But it’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there…” instead of a calm refutation from Kippers, there’s just further bile and resentment to reinforce his inital point.

    Parris was right, is right and will continue to be right about these small-minded, narrow, resentful and ignorant people who flock to the UKIP banner and populate the ‘below the line’ comments.

    • stickywicket

      Its the “down there” that reveals his true colours.

      Everyone is beneath him.

    • flippit

      Like there aren’t any of those comments from readers of the Guardian? So small-minded is just for UKIP people?

      • Geoff103

        Strange as it may seem to you, we are not discussing the comments below Guardian articles.

        The very touchy, over-sensitive, prickly nature of your response is further endorsement of Parris’s view. Though, given the nature of Kippers (as seen here, the DT and below his Times articles) it would be foolish to expect otherwise.

        • flippit

          You are trying to ascribe, as is Parris, a set of characteristics to one particular group – just as the famous fascist did himself. By the way, your response to me was a reactive and spiteful little diatribe in itself.

          • Geoff103

            Complaining at supposed ‘spiteful little diatribe[s]’ is a bit rich in the context of the wholesale appropriation of bile and resentment by Kipper commenters.

          • global city

            Why are they kippers? Perhaps they just don’t like obvious snobs?

          • Jerome Leroy

            No no no, its not one sided sir, if someone who votes for a political party, then another member of the electorate ridicules them for voting for a particular party, they will vent their frustrations on the internet.

            Judging a party based on the comments section on websites is just idiotic.

      • global city

        Of course. When the same people vote Labour they are the ‘socially excluded’, when they turn to UKIP they are ‘too stupid to cope in the new Jerusalem’ that the likes of Parris have created for them.

        They should be greatful…and know their place.

    • cambridgeelephant

      Yea ! Sure Geoff ! It must be a tough world for the likes of you and Matthew knowing your ‘untermench’ inferiors can actually express an opinion different from yours and sometimes vote that way too. My profoundest sympathies.

      Any idea whereabouts on the planet might be more suitable to your exalted tastes ? Just asking that’s all…..

      • Geoff103

        I suggest you keep those chips well balanced on your shoulders otherwise you may well topple over into your own cesspit of indignation.

        • cambridgeelephant

          Take your dentures out the carpet Geoff. It’s bad for you at your age. I think I know what ails you – a bad does of ‘the Clacton Blues’. I’m told ‘Rochester and Strood-itis’ is even worse.

          I suggest you calm down before next May, or you may do some permanent damage and we wouldn’t want that.

    • Jerome Leroy

      Can he do the same for Labour drones, Green idiots and so forth? its getting tedious arguing with nut jobs.

  • Richard


  • Brimstone52

    “Populism” is the Islington Intelligentsia/Metropolitan Elite’s sneering term for democracy.

    • global city

      They use it that way every day in the EU parliament.

      UKIP may be a cypher for a lot of anger, but it is a healthy manifestation of it, like the American Revolution was. Anger translated into a healthy determination to take action….to right wrongs.

      What better for democracy?

  • Simon Fay

    “So no, these people aren’t Nazis and I’m sure never will be”

    Provided you keep making spurious comparisons whilst simultaneously disavowing them, eh?

    Time you fell on your pork-sword, love.

  • Mehrdad

    Mr Parris

    Indeed, what you call “mass psychosis” is and has been very damaging to our society.

    That “mass psychosis” has been the accepted wisdom that mass, uncontrolled immigration of peoples, many of who are from societies with deep-rooted social problems benefits British society.

    That “mass psychosis” has been the ovine acceptance of pronouncements from people like you that super-diversity & ‘multiculturalism’ are to be desired despite all the empirical evidence and the truth before our own, lying eyes that it shouldn’t be.

    And that “mass psychosis” has been most tragically demonstrated by the unfortunate millions of working class people who have voted Labour or Conservative for decades unaware of the absolute contempt in which those parties hold them.

    (Finally, before my truths are attacked with ad hominem, I should say I’m a first generation immigrant from Iran with a foreign wife. I vote Conservative through gritted-teeth and I’ve never voted UKIP)

    • andyrwebman

      Your comments and your Iranian nationality are of interest – particularly given the conflict in Iran between those who wish to shed the influence of the mullahs vs the hard liners.

      Can I ask for your take on that situation?

  • PeteCW

    Yes, you’re right Matthew. And the open sewer of frightened, worthless little men who ooze about Coffee House’s comments section is a prime example of what you describe. A quick glance below any article here, and it is very easy to spot the kind of sick individuals who would have flocked to man the gas chambers and rape the inmates if the Nazis had ever invaded England.

    • Simon Fay

      Pete – you’re talking my language, sweetie. Can we arrange a session at Max Moseley’s place? Full dress, of course.

    • MikeF

      “frightened, worthless little men who ooze about Coffee House’s comments section” – that is what you are doing at the moment.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Godwin’s Law.

  • DavidMurphy57

    Self-obsessed patrician in reality-check shock!

    • Richard Reeves

      Sorry didn’t mean to give you negative. . Should have been a positive vote

  • kazdix

    Hmm Matthew “if it does not hinder me at all then it does not exist” Parris. I am a degree level educated 45 year old mother and I will be voting UKIP. I also used to think that Parris was an articulate and thoughtful journalist/politician. Its quite amusing how he has been pushing his own prejudices while complaining of others er prejudices!

  • Max07

    Walk down one of the poorer streets in Clacton or Medway, Matthew, and count how many times you hear people speaking in English rather than, for example, one of the Eastern European languages. You’ll find that English speakers are often a bit thin on the ground. There is the problem – and it IS a problem to those who have seen unprecedented and rapid change in their towns. Generally the natives of those areas are rather more hospitable than the nimbys in more prosperous areas. They are used to living in mixed communities. But when your child’s class contains more children who don’t have English as a first language than those who do, and your local hospital struggles to cope with the sheer weight of traffic, it becomes difficult to remain hospitable. Meanwhile, people on both sides of the political divide who can afford to buy themselves out of the problems have been busy telling them that they are ignorant little bigots who just don’t understand. They feel dumped on. And they feel they don’t have a voice. Of course unpleasant paranoia is likely to take hold in this sort of situation; it is the fault of successive governments that have just sat on their hands while it came about.

    • andyrwebman

      It’s infuriating to see the evidence of somehting in front of your eyes, and yet have someone in their ivory tower tell you that you are a bigot, isn’t it?

  • DougDaniel

    “I am not saying that the new populist right in Britain are proto-fascists, neo-fascists, or anything like the European fascists of the past century. I don’t believe that in the end my fellow–Britons could ever be led on to the madness that was 1930s Germany. I retain a faith in the essential decency of most of my countrymen — and, more important, their ingrained restraint and sense of proportion.”

    Of course, Britain would never flirt with fascism, would it? We’ll just conveniently ignore Oswald Moseley, the Lord Rothermere-funded BUF, and the Daily Mail’s “Hurrah for the Blackshirts!” headline.

    We’ve just had a member of the government try to claim that disabled people are not worth the minimum wage. In such times, it’s perhaps worth not patting ourselves on the back, claiming certain ideas couldn’t possibly take hold here because it simply isn’t British, or whatever your excuse is. It’s also probably worth remembering that the eugenics movement started not in Germany, but in Britain, with the writings of Francis Galton, and it counted many supporters amongst the well-to-do, including none other than Winston Churchill (“The multiplication of the feeble-minded is a very terrible danger to the race”).

    So no, there is no British exceptionalism that somehow insures us against falling prey to fascism, although the way World War II is taught in the UK (they were the baddies and we were the goodies), that complacency is perhaps not surprising.

    • Al Bowlly

      “The multiplication of the feeble-minded is a very terrible danger to the race”. You’ve rather proved his point, haven’t you?

      • DougDaniel

        That’s not a nice way to talk about UKIP supporters. They’re humans like the rest of us, you know.

        Or are you trying to suggest people with mental health problems are somehow to blame for the structural problems of the UK economy?

    • MikeF

      ‘Eugenic’ ideas of the sort expressed there by Churchill were very common a century or so ago. They were actually quite popular on the left where they were seen as ‘scientific’ and ‘progressive’. Socialism in general being a doctrine of human perfectionism has always been rather poor at dealing with disability.

      • DougDaniel

        “‘Eugenic’ ideas of the sort expressed there by Churchill were very common a century or so ago.”

        Yes, that was the point I was making…

        • MikeF

          And the point I was making is that they were regarded at the time as ‘progressive’ and enlightened.

  • HamtunscireKippa

    I have come to like you Matthew, along with Clarke, you have done more for the UKIP cause than anyone in being a living, breath example of the contempt that the top has for the little people. The fact that you cannot see it, that you think yourself the pious one, is frankly just amusing and you have become nothing more than a bad joke. But useful all the same. Dont change, UKIP needs useful idiots and every time you write an article, you help UKIP. Hope that helps you sleep at night.

    • Lady Magdalene

      I’m waiting for a Parris article castigating the good people of Rochester and Strood for being “nasty, uncouth, working class (yuk) oiks” and calling the Constituency a boil on the ar$e of north Kent.

      It must be due any day now.

      • Stigenace

        Rochester has an unhealthy obsession with things Dickensian. It’s about time it cast off this fixation with the evils of Victorian Britain and embraced progressive modernism. ;^)

  • stephengreen

    No. Matthew Parris wishes to castigate populism, but reactionary tendencies are just that. Reactions against a fundamental failure of political representation. The criticisms are best aimed in the other direction. But all these tendencies are exemplified by the metrosexual Parris and so he can’t direct his analysis in that direction.

    So we get a bland and tired caricature of “paranoia”, “hatred”, “glazing over of
    their eyes”, when supposedly those plebs he so superciliously tries to represent, attempt to contradict his “counter-examples”.

    Yet many of the more educated or informed among these people have spent years, vainly trying to have a conversation with liberals, and met much the same response. Because a liberal political system is a faith system, not the logical battle of ideas so beloved of those who quote their Mill. And their over-representation in political life with the centralisation of party lists, their dominance in the media, drowns out many other voices and presents a wall around political discussion, that only upstart outsiders can form up and try to breach.

    So to repay the analogy, like the Communists, liberals are increasingly forced to enact more repressive laws and to create taboos to protect their faith system from a full-frontal assault and the fractured society that they have created gives them plenty of scope to use surrogate arguments to do so. Mrs May’s proposed legislation to tackle online ‘extremism’ being a good recent example.

  • lilly valley

    “pus filled”, not “puss filled”. Puss is a cat. You forgot creepy, too.

  • elaineland

    Mass immigration has been disastrous for social cohesion in Britain. The very fact we’re arguing about it is a symptom on how divided our society has become.

  • stephengreen

    Get the feeling that Matthew Parris is coming to fulfil the role of click-bait for the Spectator’s advertising revenue.

  • cambridgeelephant

    ” the blind hatred that follows the paranoia; and third (and relatedly) the blanking of their minds, the glazing over of their eyes, the blocking of their ears, whenever confounded by a counter-example or incontrovertible correction to a false claim.”

    Yes indeed Mr Parris ! I’m with you all the way there.

    A perfect summation of Cameron and his little clique. Of the euro loons, who have tried to ram every toxic demand they can down the throats of the British people, despite the latters clear revulsion and rejection.

    A perfect summation of the central London political class that ‘thinks’ that it just doesn’t know best but bitterly resents the fact that those who”don’t ” – not merely vote but actually draw breath.

    I couldn’t have put it better myself.

  • Ian Walker

    “If you set out with sufficient determination from the founding premise
    that we’re all going to the dogs, and foreigners, Brussels, rich people
    and a massive conspiracy led by corrupt Westminster politicians and
    European ringmasters are driving us there, and anyone who argues
    otherwise must be part of the conspiracy, then there is almost no
    counter-argument, no fact, that cannot be navigated round. When stymied
    in their argument, they simply change the subject. I am coming miserably
    to the conclusion that a kind of collective mental illness can whip
    large numbers of people into a Gadarene rush — and reason is helpless in
    its path.”

    Or in short, bar the ‘founding premise,’ the tactics of the liberal left for at least 30 years

  • Blimey, we usually have to wait for a few comments before someone proves Godwin’s Law. Parris has saved them the trouble by mentioning Nazis, Hitler, Jews and Germany in his first two paragraphs.

    • Kevin Harper

      Godwins law doesn’t mean ‘comparing [blah] to Hitler’

      Godwins law means: eventually, every argument on the internet, if it goes on for long enough, will have one party comparing the other party to Hitler, in a hilariously inappropriate context.

      Therefore, comparing someone who doesn’t like a video game or cat meme or superhero movie to Hitler invokes Godwin’s Law. Comparing one far right populist party to another, on a political magazine website… does not.

      Also.. it’s not a real law.

      • FFS! I know perfectly well what it means. Lighten up, buddy. It was a lighthearted response to a silly article. In any case, making the connection between the Nazis and UKIP may be less inappropriate in this particular case but it is still facile and risible.

        “Also, it’s not a real law”. Really? Well blow me down with a feather, I was utterly convinced that it was. I thought it was there between Faraday’s First Law of Electromagnetic Induction and Hooke’s law. Thank you for putting me straight on that. What would the internet do without tiresome, humourless, supercilious commenters like you?

        • Kevin Harper

          calls someone humourless, responds to obvious joke about godwin’s law not being an actual law like he’s been told he’s adopted. hahaha, well done.

          • If that was your (obvious) attempt at humour it failed, miserably.

          • Kevin Harper

            Hey, lighten up buddy!

            it failed to make YOU laugh, but I was’t trying to make you laugh, I was amusing myself. I’m pissing myself here. Specifically at the speed with which you’ve descended into throwing insults.

            You’ve now attempted to insult me twice..miserably. Please look at my original reply and tell me where I was so disrespectful to you? Did I call you names? Did i presume to know what kind of person you are? Nope. I was simply correcting the (popular and recent) misconception from people who are possibly only just starting to get round to using the internet, (possibly in their twilight years.. I don’t know) that Godwin’s law is something it isn’t.

            The article doesn’t ‘make the connection’ between UKIP and the Nazi’s’. It makes the connection fairly clearly that there SEEMS to be a mindset among UKIP supporters akin to that of people who supported the Nazi’s. People who are so sure they’re right they will not listen to an opposing viewpoint and will instead hurl insults at people.

            Not that you’re one of those people. I would’t be so gauche as to suggest you’re one thing or another.

            If you knew what Godwin’s Law is, I was mistaken and i apologise, Your original post however, did not convey that fact very well, if at all. Have a nice day BUDDY

          • andyrwebman

            ” People who are so sure they’re right they will not listen to an opposing viewpoint and will instead hurl insults at people.”

            Really? I thought that was usually the preserve of those who usually shout “Islamophobe” and “bigot” and “Xenophobe”

            I’m happy to debate and include evidence as much as anyone likes. Of course there will be opposing viewpoints. If someone makes their case eloquently and with enough evidence they might even change my mind, at least in subtle modifying ways.

            What I can’t stand is the atmosphere of not being able to even voice ideas – particularly prevelant when a minister dares to say something unpopular and his job is demanded.

  • MikeF

    Self-absorbed drivel Matthew. The real danger to democracy in this country at the moment is not ‘right wing’ populism but ‘left wing’ bureaucratic oligarchy – as in Rotherham for instance.

  • Tony Allwright

    It sounds like you’re the one with the “mental illness”. You seem incapable of understanding the rationale of those who place their own country and their own fellow-countrymen and their own co-religionists on top of all other countries and all other peoples and all other religions. But why wouldn’t they? Why would anyone place herself/himself second?

    • Sir_Hugo_Baskerville

      Parris isn’t British – I think that explains a lot.

  • Tom Armstrong

    Oh dear, poor little Matty is all upset.

    He was rude about 80% of his country and countrymen, but failed to take into account that they now have the means to tell him exactly what they think of him, when mentally he was expecting plaudits from his fellow bein pensants of the chatterati.

    Now, Mr Parris is so precious, self-regarding and smug in his rectitude, that he obviously thinks that anybody who disagrees with him must by definition be a Nazi.

    Well, let me tell you bonny lad, that you and your ilk have acted with the arrogance and ruthlessness of the Nazis in forcing your perverted views, mass immigration and a disastrous cultural revolution on the British people by lies and stealth.

    And the British people aren’t happy about it.

    Carry on sneering Mr Parris – your day is nearly done.

  • John Mangan

    Hello UKIP trolls. Come in. Sit down and roll up your sleeves to do a working man’s job of explaining how your far-right, fascist, rich man’s Tory Party is a new force in British politics, rather like Mosley’s British Union of Fascists was in the 1930s. You’re led by a millionaire public school ex City trader, your MPs are Tory deserters who have the same background and you are financed by loony ultra right wing Billionaires and Corporations, just like the Tories. You only hear the “bloody foreigner” bs while Farrago does no work at all in the EU Parliament and socks millions away in an offshore fund to avouid UK tax. He supportsd tax cuts for the rich and the TTIP which will remove all our human rights in the UK. Yes, truly a man of the people. Very very rich people.

    • Kevin Harper

      Agreed. Let also not forget they’re the kind of party who does things like hilariously trying to brush off the racist insult ‘ting tong’ as ‘a tv character’ like we’re all idiots or something.

      If Nigel was a man of the people he’d publish his accounts.

    • Jerome Leroy

      #Vote green innit? lolz

      <3<3 Russell Brand, #Rainbow alliance!?

      No thanks.

      • John Mangan

        Sorry, but adding “lolz” to a dumbass response does not make you funny. You must be a scream at parties, assuming you ever get invited to one……lolz

  • Hippograd

    So let me say it again: I see not a glimmer of the dawn of fascism in
    modern Britain, and to say otherwise would be scare-mongering…

    Yes, not a glimmer. Not with our vibrant Islamic communities growing at their present heart-warming rates. As a prominent Tory, perhaps you could move to an enriched area of London and reach out to Muslims, Matthew. It’s vital that the Tories attract the ethnic vote, after all. You need to build a rainbow coalition of the oppressed and just as immigrants are natural Conservatives, so gays and Muslims are natural allies:

    Then I saw three more kids walking towards us. Suddenly the first three
    were coming up behind and that’s when I knew: this is orchestrated and
    it’s going to be serious.” All six teenagers had hoods pulled up over
    their faces, which, with the darkness, masked their faces entirely. Gay/Muslim dialogue

  • steve patriarca

    I also ventured onto “Conservative Home” thinking there might be space to put the Centre Right, pro European case. I was surprised by the fact that the voices there are almost all the same. I even wonder if there is a room somewhere filled with people brainwashed with conspiracy theories and simplism – churning out endless versions of the same message under different pseudonyms. For the first time, as a broadly Thatcherite, liberal conservative with a belief in small government, I was called a “Pink Tory” – As a Headmaster I advocated the privatisation of schools, I believe passionately in the duty of the state to provide resources for education and health and I am equally sure the state should have no role at all in supplying either! I do believe in human rights, I too think the UK has an international and a European role to play and I find some of the hysteria about immigration just misinformed.

    But a Pink Tory! I had not thought the Party had shifted so far to the right.

    Clacton of course suffers not from too much immigration but from too little. There are no hard working Eastern Europeans setting up new small businesses or opening and running corner shops at all ours. There are fewer and fewer working families to pay the bills for the social capital necessary to run one of Britain’s largest open air old folks homes.

    I have friends who support UKIP. One talks about individual issues or policies and they accept the fact that UKIP gets them wrong but somehow belief in UKIP is like religious faith – nothing can be said to count against it. Thus the original belief dies what my old friend Tony Flew would have called “death by a thousand qualifications” (though curiously Flew was himself an ardent Freedom Association supporter! – an association strongly inked to UKIP).

    The conventional wisdom is that up to 25% of the electorate will support “protest parties” at any one time. The LIb Dems are no longer a “protest party” having been in government. So UKIP takes the protest vote. Labour has a leader who rightly or wrongly is perceived to be not Prime Ministerial material and one who only became leader to spite his brother. That is another source of UKIP protest votes.

    But I do not think Parris is right in inferring from UKIP successes such frightening conclusions about the public. Here in Austria there is also a protest but the far right is not significantly stronger. Rather the new liberals (“Neos”) came from nowhere to take over 10%. “Team Stronach” rose like a phoenix only to fall again a few months later.

    I think Conservative Home and the Right Wing press are wrong to believe that the British public has finally lost its sense of decency and fair play, its sense of judgement and of proportion, and become a force for nationalism and reactionary isolationism.

    People are just pissed off.

    “Nigel” seems like a lovable rogue, and he has that touch of the toff about him which means he is a better class of rebel than those we used to find on the left who (other than Benn and Foot) often had a touch of loutishness about them.

    To recover the centre politicians have to go after the “pissed off” vote. I am not sure this vote is tied to any particular ideology. It can be recaptured by anyone who shows some inspirational leadership and a bit of determination. Thatcher did it, Blair did it. Miliband is not up to it and Cameron isn’t even trying.

    By the way Miliband cannot succeed because he has the worst quality of any politician – he embarrasses people. It is embarrassing to listen to him, he embarrasses his own party, he embarasses the public. If he were just bad it would not matter so much but people do not like to be embarrassed.

  • global city

    Matthew, the point is that you are entirely and utterly wrong in just about everything. Your analysis of the country, the progressive policies that have been pursued for a generation, their impact….and UKIP.

    You will never be able to get a handle on the issue of UKIP and why you have drawn such contempt until you understand that you are the problem.

    You are the man who is behind the times, who has not yet realised that his visions for the future have already been at play and have caused loads of problems.

    I once saw a man like you at some stupid Lefty event I was invited to. The ‘Star Turn’ was some old fogey who had cut his teeth in the turbulent 1920s’, but had not adjusted his world view since then. His calls for plans and policies that would usher in the new utopia have been tried over and over again in the subsequent decades, but their failures and cruelty had not registered. He was like an old record, stuck in a groove.

    That’s also you Matthew. The ideals and people that so inspired you in the 1960s’ have been tried and seen to fail. you still imagine that your worldview is young and fresh, interesting and visionary, with an idealistic eye on the future. They are not. Time (and events) has caught you up and passed you by. You need a new set of ideas. Get rid of the musty ones.

    • English Majority

      Its particularly creepy, and odd, that Parris is a ‘Conservative’; or, he thinks he is.

      Its akin to Hitler calling himself a Capitalist African.

    • Alexandrovich

      I suspect that it’s because the Left have a pathological inability to contextualise history.

  • ohforheavensake

    You’re right, Matthew: only thing is, this bilious, paranoid hatred was always there, in your own party. Your most successful modern Prime Minister harnessed it; and the Tory right (and Ukip, for that matter) are made in her nastily populist image.

  • Joe Long

    Parris drives a coach horses through Godwin’s Law, and then when he’s shrilled sufficiently to his satisfaction with his liberal dog whistle he trots out this contemptible cant

    “Until now. In what I’m going to say there’s a very great danger of overstatement — or of being read in that way. So let me be absolutely clear at the outset. I am not saying that the new populist right in Britain are proto-fascists, neo-fascists, or anything like the European fascists of the past century.”

    He is a viper

    To all but the deluded bubble denizens it is plain to see that Britain is sliding rapidly down the tube, and that the political class is rotten to the core.

    Parris seems to be a superficial creature and he needs a reminder that Ancien Regimes fall, even elective dictatorship ones.

    “Let’s talk of graves, of worms, and epitaphs;
    Make dust our paper and with rainy eyes
    Write sorrow on the bosom of the earth,
    Let’s choose executors and talk of wills:
    And yet not so, for what can we bequeath
    Save our deposed bodies to the ground?”

    Parris has earned an ignominious one-way trip in the cart to a re-erected triple tree at Tyburn

  • Damaris Tighe

    Reply to Kevin Harper who has made his post ‘inactive’ so can’t be directly responded to although he begs us to read it!

    The immigration that people are complaining about started in the 1950s & has been more or less continuous since then. In terms of numbers it has far outstripped the previous immigrations of the Irish, Jews or Hugenots.

    The problem with historical anti-immigration protests is that they in effect cried ‘wolf’. You’re right, there wasn’t a problem but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one now. Our leaders always seem to fight previous battles & are blinkered to the realities of the present. To paraphrase Macmillan, it’s numbers dear boy, numbers.

  • silent_pilot

    Newsflash: Godwin’s law is dead, long live Parris’ law!

  • Damaris Tighe

    Matthew if, God forbid, we went to war again on our own soil it will be the sons & grandsons of the people of places like Clacton who’ll defend your sorry a*rse.

    • Simon Fay

      Matthew’s arse has likely never needed defending. I expect no attempt is ever made to repel boarders

  • AJAX

    We’re witnessing the Death of the 20th Century’s Conservative Party, & the winds of change beginning the sweeping away of its worn out & discredited Liblabcon order, & Parris has obligingly assumed for us the role of a 1 man Greek Chorus, running around the stage hysterically lamenting it. … Quite entertaining. : |


  • English Majority

    “You’ll remind me that these commentators are no more representative than the loudmouths who call in to shock-jock radio phone-ins; that I’m looking at a grotesquely skewed sample; that such individuals have always existed and may signify little. Well, I remind myself of that too, when depressed in the small hours, in the dark, ploughing through and responding as our editors enjoin us to do, and temporarily plunged into a kind of Hieronymus Bosch netherworld. So yes, they aren’t typical, may not be numerous, and may not signify….” – Matthew Marxist Parris

    Sorry to break it to you, Parris (I’m not sorry at all), but the comments are absolutely representive of the native British people – certainly the native English. So, you keep on rocking in your armchair like a deranged old Marxist, telling yourself they/we represent a tiny minority. You couldn’t be anymore wrong. Trust me.

    In fact, the comments you speak of are timid compared to what the people really think and say.

    You see, its you and your felow Leftist, pro-immigration, pro-Islam, pro-multiculturalism traitors who’re the minority, mate. You do realise that, right? Ah, you didn’t know, did you.

    I’m a young working class lad from the North, by the way. From a council estate.

    • ohforheavensake

      & speaking as a Scottish working-class lad, from a council estate, I can tell you that the polls are right. Most people don’t like Ukip.

      • English Majority

        That’s Scotland. As you know, the Scots and English have deeply different political opinions.

        • Joe Long

          I am not at all sure that fundamental attitudes are different – and I seem to recall a survey to that effect not so long ago.

          But it’s very well for some Scots to say they espouse a progressive civic nationalism when they simply have not been “enriched” to the degree that England has; utterly overwhelming in many of our cities and towns now

          • Damaris Tighe

            I’m not sure what ‘civic nationalism’ means. I suspect it means a ‘nation’ as a paper jurisdiction, whose population can be infinitely interchangable with other jurisdictions, & in which ancient roots mean very little.

          • English Majority

            Yep, D.

          • Damaris Tighe

            Hello EM. Long time no see. I know you agree but I can’t subscribe to your solution. I just can’t.

          • English Majority

            Hello, sweetheart.

            And yes: I know you’re a moderate, and liberal, on these matters.

          • Joe Long

            Indeed, we been arm-twisted away out of the position everybody took for granted only a short historical space away – Churchill’s famous island race(proven to be genetically correct in recent years pity, the technology wasn’t available much earlier)

            Now apparently anyone from anywhere can be deemed British, either on the basis of passing a Mickey Mouse test, or birth in what are effectively foreign colonies in our country.

            We have always had a level of immigration, generally modest, but what we are seeing now is a colonisation event, or a series of colonisation events.

            Ancient roots, as you correctly put it, have been discarded by the political class in favour of the complete guff that is British values and which allegedly form the basis of so-called civic nationalism.

            To claim there is some British exceptionalism in terms of values smacks of hubris, they can’t be defined and it is pretty clear that imported populations don’t share them anyway

          • Damaris Tighe

            Agreed. The recent dna analyses of the British are very interesting & I always have them in mind when I comment on mass immigration. I’m descended from 19th century immigrants myself & I recognise the difference between my forefathers’ migration & what’s happening today.

          • English Majority

            Exactly, Joe.

      • Joe Long

        Scotland’s got the SNP

        Why do you think UKIP won 10 seats in Rotherham and nearly took the white working class constituency of Heywood and Middleton?

        To their great credit UKIP have been active in trying to make progress in dealing with the Pakistani rape epidemic in Rotherham, particularly Jane Collins MEP

        The site, Rotherham Politics, which is left inclined and previously apparently favoured Respect(though god alone knows why) now gives UKIP credit for their efforts

        • English Majority

          UKIP, though, is a very moderate party. The disastrous mistake they’re making, is trying to appeal to “ethnic minorities” (black and brown hordes are actually the huge global majority, not ethnic minorities).

          UKIP need to concentrate on speaking for the White working class, and the Patriotic White middle class. If they do that, they’ll win big.

          • Joe Long

            I think that is pretty much the logic of the position, but it has got to be handled with great care because of the completely biased left agenda led media

  • Joe Long

    Ooh look

    Xenophobic parents launch petition

    They must be UKIP supporters.

    I hope they don’t expect too much from South Yorkshire Plod or the Labour “authorities”

    This is what voting Labour gets you, complete and utter betrayal

    “In the centre of Rotherham is the Interchange, a modern glass concourse providing a nexus for the buses, taxis and trains that travel across the town. Rotherham’s sex gangs used the Interchange to recruit victims and transport them to waiting clients. According to the Alexis Jay report, which detailed the abuse of 1,400 young girls over 16 years, within the well-lit and sterile corridors of the Interchange, school children “ran a gauntlet” of “drug dealers, addicts and people involved in a range of criminal activity”.”

    I’m sure Parris thinks this is all very enriching, and that he is very familiar with the areas that have been blessed by such diversity

  • I’ve seen the kind of single minded bile UKIP supporters say on Conservative Home and The Commentator. That latter website should serve as a warning about giving in to an agenda shaped by trolling on the internet. Once, not too long ago, The Commentator was as sceptical and critical of UKIP as it was with the other political parties. True, the Commentator is more forthright and wears it’s right wing ideology on its sleeve but every pro-Conservative and UKIP critique article was swamped by UKIP supporters crying foul, hurling abuse at the authors and saying a lot worse to people who were likewise critical of Farage and his party. What was coming out was nasty, vindictive, paranoid and downright abusive and directed at people who the UKIPpers had never met and who had merely a different opinion to them. I noticed that over time The Commentator became increasingly pro-UKIP and anti-Conservative and that the articles seemed to give in to the mob that had swarmed the discussion threads.
    Now a similar thing is being attempted on Conservative Home, and this time UKIPpers are blatantly saying they’re trying to colonise the site and bring down the old Conservative order of modernisers, wets and liberals amongst the parties ranks. Fortunately the editorship of ConHome is more robust but heaven help you if you take a stance critical of UKIP on their discussion boards. Their comments are paranoid (LibLabCon and Westminster Cabal), vindictive (foreigners), reactionary (women should give up work), deluded (referencing a Thatcher golden age that never existed the way they think it did) and hostile to any criticism (which is why you will get personally attacked if you dare to do likewise). Most seem to be very bitter men over the age of 50, but you ignore their trolling at your peril because they intend for the tail to wag the dog.

    • Jerome Leroy

      Hyperbole in regards to people who vote UKIP, you cannot say every one who comments FOR UKIP are the same.

      • No, not hyperbole at all if you’ve spent time on The Commentator and Conservative home websites. You’ll see exactly what Matthew describes.

        • Alexsandr

          try labour list for nastiness.

        • Bryan Tomlinson

          Oh bless !!
          Isn’t democracy and freedom of speech working for you anymore ?

          • Bryan, you illustrate my point perfectly: We’ve never met, we know next to nothing about each other and yet you decide you’re going to act like an ass when you read something you don’t like. Are you like this with people you meet in person? Trolling isn’t a good thing, it would not be tolerated outside of the internet.

          • Oh, and trolling on the internet, being nasty and rude isn’t democracy.

  • Jerome Leroy

    Finally, I understand the nature of how the Nazi party rose up, and that is no one stopped them in public debate, because nobody had the chance to stop them.

    UAF are the Nazi party, they’ve already stopped UKIP taking part in debate, you are a terrible human being Mr Parris, I do not acknowledge you as a human being, but these articles do nothing but give UKIP more support, keep it up.

    Good luck getting this article on the streets of Rochester and strood, please do it, two MPs are better then one.

    The problem with politics are journalists and politicians like you, I hope Douglas Murray rips you a new one.

    And its getting deeper.

  • stickywicket

    Matthew, Might I remind you of Godwin’s Law?

    Godwin’s law (or Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is an Internet adage asserting that “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1″[2][3]—​ that is, if an online discussion (regardless of topic or scope) goes on long enough, sooner or later someone will compare someone or something to Hitler or Nazism.'s_law

    It is pretty lame for a supposedly quality journalist to bring up Hitler is the main article. You are madder than those you disparage.

  • andyrwebman

    The trouble with our tabloid sensalitionalising of issues is that it lends a smear to the rational core of truth on which it is based.

    It’s clear that many of the accusations made about immigrants don’t apply to all of them – and so it becomes the fashion to say that “immigrants are demonised – therefore they must be entirely innocent of all charges”. It then becomes impossible to make a more considered, evidence based approach, such as “the sheer number of people in this island is an issue”

    Indeed, the author in this article is suggesting that any attempt to make a moderate point is really just an extremist point in disguise – which is actually rather underhand. It’s like saying “all your arguments are false if they even slightly resemble a sensationalist extremist”.

    It’s yet another example of the tendency to try and short cut arguments by slandering the proponents – or, in this case, the people who the proponents vaguely resemble.

    Every argument and policy must be taken on its own merit. The question of whether or not you trust its proponent to implement the policy is a different matter.

    You might well say “Farage’s argument is correct but I don’t trust Farage” – that means that we need to find a more trustworthy person, not to fly to the arms of a party with different policies.

  • Mike E

    Such utter nonsense! I hope the Spectator doesn’t pay for this because then I have to reconsider my subscription.

  • Rallan

    Poor Matthew Parris, forced to endure the common folk! It must be terrible for him to share a world with the rest of us.

    He’s simply so much better than ordinary people. He just knows he’s more moral, more intelligent, more compassionate, more righteous and, if he’s being honest, more valuable than everyone else.

  • WorthSayingAgain

    ‘Jews, homosexuals and other minorities’

    What about everybody else? Shouldn’t that read, gentiles (60 million plus), Russians (25 Million), lots of others, then Jews (5 million plus), lots and lots and lots of others and then homosexuals (a few thousand).

    Why does Parris, and the rest of the elite in London, carry with them this almost unconscious segregated hierarchy – often defined by race – topped by Jews and homosexuals? Who are the Nazi’s in this?

  • Sir_Hugo_Baskerville

    Parris isn’t British – I think that explains his contempt for the British people.

  • Mark Bishop

    It’s true those people are angry. The question you should be asking yourself is ‘why?’

    Either they are all demented neo-Nazis or they have grounds for being angry. Your column might have carried more credibility had it developed the latter theme beyond the dismissive suggestion that they are ‘failures’

    • WorthSayingAgain

      It’s Parris’s attitude that is reminiscent of another country in another decade. We are the untermench who don’t quite deserve to inhabit the same place as Parris. His comments on Clacton and the good people who live there were disgusting.

      • Mark Bishop

        Agreed, and I can’t help feeling some of his thoughts are shared by individuals currently leading the major parties. Similar in age, class, education and even in height, they are a gilded group that moved into politics early in life, largely untroubled by the need to earn a living in the real world and shielded from us, the lumpen proles who toil and pay our taxes.

        This elite understands neither the rise of UKIP nor, on the left, the unexpected surge in support for Scottish independence. Worse, they are bewildered to be told that the two phenomena have the same underlying cause, namely alienation from the political system by the silent majority.

  • starfish

    Mr Parris is a fully-paid up member of the London ‘intelligentsia’, enjoying a cosseted life untroubled by real work and insulated from the realties of life outside inner London
    He seems to be apologising for insulting Kippers – I suspect they really don’t care what he thinks

  • Mike E

    Aside from the fact that this article oozes of political correctness and is nonsense, it also perpetuates the liberal-left smear of the right by claiming that Nazism was a rightwing movement.

    The “fact” that, primarily the left, for decades have hammered in, that Fascism and Nazism (i.e. “National Socialism”) are rightwing doesn’t make it true. The left saw these movements as its enemies and wanted to distance itself from it and at the same time smear the right and capitalism. It was a smart move but it only worked because the left “won” WW2 especially in Europe, and dominated (even more so today) the media.

    Nazism started as a clear socialist movement with SA doing their business. This was later watered down but capitalist is was never. It, and Fascism, were collectivist movements just like socialism, and the state and its leader was the master. Furthermore, Fascism’s economic model is Corporatism were the companies are not free but there to serve the state or collective. This is the absolute opposite to what the rightwing capitalists want. They want individualism, private ownership and a free market.

    Finally, to claim that nationalists have to be rightwing is nonsense. There are many examples of leftwing movements that are nationalist. To claim that GDR was anything but nationalist with its wall closing the country hermetically is of course absurd. GDR only accepted one culture and way of life, namely GDRs own. And that goes for all the former socialist states.

  • The Blue Baron

    Oh sit down Matthew, you’re making a fool out of yourself.

    • cambridgeelephant


      Parris is one of those little souls who love to invent a ‘straw man’ argument. Anyone who carefully rebuts his chosen line is ignored. But anyone who puts a careless turn of phrase his way is immediately symptomatic of the world soon to be ending.

      Basicallly he’s just a lazy journalists whose been paid too much, for too little, too long. Although he’s not alone in that boat.

  • XH558

    I am coming miserably to the conclusion that a kind of collective mental illness can whip large numbers of people into a Gadarene rush — and reason is helpless in its path.

    The rise of the EU and its doomed currency are evidence enough of that.

  • Hole_in_One

    I think the key, Matthew, is the frustration of the populace that there is no choice – on anything. If the scale of ultra-right to ultra-left positions in politics were represented by 1 to 100, we have two (and a half) parties who occupy the ground between 49.5 and 50.5. Hence there is no debate about anything coming from Westminster. Take yesterday’s bashing of Freud – a 24 hullabaloo about a clearly misplaced set of words. Not policy, not planned policy, not a straw man for policy.
    At the same time our country is being rapidly changed into a defacto multi-culti one. Without declaring any position on whether this is either right or wrong the fact remains that no one has explicitly placed this on a manifesto, no one seems interested in the public’s view, and UKIP (who appear to listen here) will inevitably be seen as a choice for some. The wider issue is the complete lack of connection between Conservative, Labour or Liberal with any constituency – because to ask is to seek views and potential disfavour. They prefer to profess to nothing and let nature take its course.

  • majentah

    UKIP is s black hole for the ignorant to fall into
    But we in the sane moderate right must take our share of the blame. Cameron has been grossly ineffective at smothering the UKIP cuckoo in the nest .

    I never thought I’d hear myself say it but one almost longs for the days of nuLab when the denizens of this underworld of fear and hatred of the other seemed to feel less able to spout forth their unseemly views.

    I had the misfortune to read the comments in the Daily Mail about Nalala receiving the Nobel prize. My God, the resentment and envy of the perceived ‘perks’ being allocated to a child who had almost had her head blown off for going to school. Ranting and raving about her travelling the world and staying in nice hotels when giving speeches. I’m afraid our own Conservative Party has helped to spread this malaise with all its talk of health tourism in it’s attempts to obfuscate about the spending on the NHS.

    In the end UKIP will be the greater victim if its own success. All these vague hopes and hatreds of a flailing underclass will never be rewarded by the shallow opportunist Farage. They are merely grist to his anti EU mill. If and when he succeeds with his Brexit they will be most surprised to find themselves cast adrift on sea of Libertarian reality .

    • Joe Long

      The Tory Party is being pulled towards the majority opinion on immigration by those UKIP supporters you are pleased to despise

    • andyrwebman

      “I never thought I’d hear myself say it but one almost longs for the days
      of nuLab when the denizens of this underworld of fear and hatred of the
      other seemed to feel less able to spout forth their unseemly views.”

      It’s hardly an underworld, is it? It’s an increasingly significant part of the population.

      For the record, I believe that properly handled, immigration can enrich a country, with the following caveats:

      1. Control the rate of people entering, so that there isn’t culture shock and ghettoism, so that the elements mix into one large society – i.e. not multicultural, but one very rich culture.

      2. Control the overall numbers – because this country is only a small island and nature is precious beyond measure. At some level of population net immigration has to be zero or even negation.

      3. Control the quality of people in terms of qualifications and skills.

      4. Don’t be afraid to say that there are some cultures we just don’t want. Not racism, but culturism, beliefism. After all you wouldn’t import huge numbers of white people from a country which was massively Naziu, would you?

      None of this is a dismissal of potential immigrants based on race, nor is it a blanket disissal of all other cultures. It’s a cautious., pragmatic and realistic assessment of an imperfect world, which says foreigners may be nice but they may also be nasty.

      They are not a priori all equally nice!

      • GraveDave

        “I never thought I’d hear myself say it but one almost longs for the days of nuLab when the denizens of this underworld of fear and hatred of the other seemed to feel less able to spout forth their unseemly views.”

        What, lock ’em all up you mean? As for the ‘fear and hatred’ bit that’s just another ploy to make people not taken in by mass diversity seem irrational. Emma West was irrational. True. But she certainly didn’t deserve what they did to her just for saying ‘My England’s gone.’

    • Brimstone52

      UKIP was created during John Major’s leadership of the Tory party, because he signed the Maastrict treaty despite the pleas of many of his own MPs (remember the “bastards”?) and has found new life under the disaster that is David Cameron.

      However, you are at liberty to remain comfortable in your delusions.

    • Rallan

      … one almost longs for the days of nuLab when the denizens of this underworld of fear and hatred of the other seemed to feel less able to spout forth their unseemly views.

      I’m sure you do.

      Realise now that your “denizens of this underworld of fear and hatred” are ordinary British people, and they number in the millions.

      Democracy is coming to get you.

      • majentah

        Oh, it really isn’t. UKIP no more represents democracy than the LibLabCon trio. It only appears to at tbis point in time .

        UKIP is harnessing the apparatus of democracy for its own ends, which will not deliver a democratic outcome. It cannot for example it contains within it something ludicrously entitled RedUKIP – how is it to reconcile the disparate views of ex Labour voters who feel their party had moved too far to the right and ex Tory voters who feel their party is not far enough to the right? Blaming Johnny foreigner will only go so far..

        Privatisers and renationalisers. Blue collar Tories and socialist Labourites. Racists and Carswells… odd bedfellows all, in Mr Farage’s strange sozzled world ..

        • Rallan

          Well then, you’ve got nothing to worry about do you? You can relax. Public opinion will once again be suppressed, as you wish it to be. Enlightened “goodthink” people like you can continue to impose your world view onto the brow-beaten millions of unimportant, uncultured proles who once had the temerity to speak up for their country.

          Except that’s not going to happen. The genie is out of the bottle. We’re going to fight you, and we’re going to win.

        • Bryan Tomlinson

          The more UKIP grow, the louder you squeal.

  • monty61

    Reminiscent of the cybernats in the recent referendum … reason doesn’t come into it.

  • Tantric Guru


  • fathomwest

    But he is a writer, a columnist, a leading light in the gay community and whose partner is working directly for David Cameron. So we can safely assume Cameron must be of a similar view. It stinks. The people are not allowed to disagree with this ghastly man. He started this abuse and this article proves he cannot take it.

  • Absolutely_Passionate

    I suggest you drop the tendentious clap trap and have a crack at debating some real issues. Perhaps you could explain to the tax paying working classes (not just whites) how our free for all NHS, schools, housing and cash benefits can be compatible with open borders.
    It’s not racism it’s mathematics!

  • JohnRedLantern

    The liberal elite like Parris and the faux lefties simply do not understand that immigration has been and is the primary problem in the UK.

    UKIP simply do not understand that most of the immigration, twice as much comes from OUTSIDE of the EU, NON-EU countries. The EU hatred is misplaced and pointless.

    Parris will never understand the problem with immigration as he does not have to live cheek to jowl with the newcomers.

    UKIP are a reaction to the faux leftie & liberal elite who run this country and shove their irrelevant to most of us values down our throats.

    UKIP are the inevitable reaction to liberal elite & faux lefties who have damaged this country almost beyond repair, by making it pretty much unlivable for most of our young people who have zero prospect of owning their own homes or being paid a living wage.

    If you treat people ugly by ignoring their needs, they react in an ugly way.

  • English Majority

    What’s most fascinating, and a bit rancid and disgusting, is how Parris and his fellow Marxist, Leftist, fascist, rootless cosmopolitans genuinely think theirs is the majority view.

    They think extreme-Liberalism, pro-mass immigration, pro-Third World hordes and pro-Islam is the default stance of people. And they fully believe they have the right to enforce them upon the majority – who despise, viscerally, all those things.

    • Simon Fay

      I must disagree: I strongly suspect that they know full well their rationale for treachery really appeals to only a venal predominantly-metro slice of the native population, but their hitherto-unassailable grip on power tends to make them feel untouchable in their professing such toxic stuff – like perverts rationalising their depravity via video-link from the snuff-orgy whilst knowing that Hattie and co will defend them.

  • ADW

    Well I guess when the bankers’ part of the Docklands gets a bit much for you Matthew you flit off to Derbyshire and Spain, nice for some. If you ever met any UKIP voters you might find them ordinary, decent folk who quite like their own way of life, enjoy visiting Europe but enjoy coming home again, and don’t like having to compete with open border migration for social housing, education, other public services and employment. They find that multicultural areas aren’t just international food and arts festivals, but now strange countries transplanted into their own.

  • Dexter vs Sinister

    The one-man UKIP recruiting tool called Matthew Parris strikes again.
    Thanks, mate, the cheque’s in the post.

  • Jim

    I’m not saying that UKIP are like the Nazi’s but here I am linking them in yet another smear article, cos I really am that dishonest.

  • Callan

    I suggest Mr. Parris takes a couple of months off to read the collected works and view the many interviews given by Melanie Phillips a, a thoughtful, forthright and articulate journalist who has a grasp of the problems bedevilling this country. Seems at present he has been too long in the company of Soubry.

  • Julian Beach

    Look at my avatar, Mr Parris. Study it closely.

    Then call me a Nazi again and I’ll be happy to discuss your lazy generalisation with you in person.

  • Bryan J. Maloney

    You DO realize that Labour and Conservative have the same sorts of people who merely direct their vitriol to different targets, do you not?

  • Bryan J. Maloney

    So, then, if populism is bad, then self-selecting oligarchy is good.

  • CraigET

    Kudos Mr Parris, I don’t think I ever seen Godwin’s law satisfied by the headline of an article before. You must be a special kind of stupid.

  • Dgw201

    To be fair to Matthew, before his UKIP articles, the only thing I remember him writing was about how he never uses shampoo.

  • Veronica Lake

    Matthew. You are a geezer. Plenty of old blokes retain their mental agility. But you should leave these newfangled politics to the youngsters.

  • Kazakhkhanate

    You are blind to the False Flag events that symbolized Nazi Germany such as the burning of the Reichstag burning of 1933. Under the Blair Government we had the London Bombings, a False Flag event (easily researched as per 9/11 is) and under Cameron we have the downing MH17 clearly yet another False Flag event. It is UKIP that promises a return to the Conservative Ideals, still shared by so many; of minimum participation of the state and the party of British Identity. We all wish for a Government that does not spy on it’s own people nor set out to unduly manouevre public opinion. (such as by lies around Climate and False Flag events)
    We wish Britain to be free to trade with the whole world and to be free from the spiral of decline and even moral decline into which the European Union is falling.

  • b.edwards

    So it’s ‘fascist’ for wanting to preserve our sovereignty and
    independence and not to be ruled by Brussels, to object to having my
    nose rubbed in ‘it’ by a party who imported 3,000,000 immigrants for
    political gain,to feel like
    a stranger in my home town, schools and classrooms with no single
    indigenous pupil,have my English ethnicity deleted from the census,towns
    cities with,or very soon to be,a minority indigenous
    population,25% of births last year to foreign mothers,FGM,trojan horse
    schools,soldier hacked to death on an England street,’British’
    jihadists,bus and tube station blown up,modern day slavery,people
    trafficking,sham marriages,an over representation of foreign criminals
    in our jails,murderers,rapists and terrorists we’re not allowed to
    deport,a party’s political correct ideology allowing mass paedophilia in
    our towns and cities,TB and Rickets on the rise,possibly an Ebola
    threat,millions of immigrants taking out the pot without ever
    contributing a
    penny,thousands of low-paid,low-skilled immigrants, who can earn 4-5
    times the amount here as compared in their countries, are supposedly
    good for our economy yet our GDP per capita is stagnant,our national
    debt rising,our services overstretched,more land concreted
    over,community cohesion destroyed in many towns and cities,yet the loony
    call all this a modern,progressive 21st century civilised country, and
    opposing all the above, which has been encouraged and implemented by
    the never ending vicious cycle of successive labour and tory
    governments, is somehow construed as ‘fascism’?? Here’s an idea, reverse
    situation what is happening in this country,in particular England, to
    the home countries of the immigrants,especially East Europe, and then
    let’s see the reaction and how
    ‘tolerant’ they would be.

  • Veronica Lake

    Matthew. You are a geezer. Plenty of old blokes retain their mental agility. But you should leave these newfangled developments to the youngsters.

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    Bog standard internet trolling, nothing to get excited about and certainly no reason to bring Godwin’s law into play.

  • obiwan

    Mr Parris does a nice line in barely concealed accusations of fascism and racism (‘I’m not going to accuse UKIP of such things, but I’m going to invoke these concepts, anyway’).

    Perhaps what he does not understand is that his self-congratulatory smugness and sly insinuation is typical of the liberal progressive left – all of which leaves one wondering, between his casual UKIP bashing and his cosy, no doubt fruitful, relationship with the Bolshevik Brainwashing Comintern, why he even bothers to put himself forward as any kind of ‘conservative’ at all?

    Personally, Parris is a laughing stock to most UKIP supporters like myself (and I’m a gay man – just like him!). His petty sniping from the sidelines – aided by his ever-willing friends at the BBC – is entirely redundant to a sizeable section of the electorate looking for genuine, radical change in British politics.

    Mr Parris can continue evoking images of swastikas till the cows come home – he doesn’t yet understand such immature Godwinisms embarrass only himself. It isn’t working, Matthew, because it isn’t true and you know it. But don’t let that trifling fact stop you from trying.

    • Lady Magdalene

      You may be a gay man …. but you’re nothing like Matthew Parris.
      He’s an egotisical, privileged prat. You quite obviously aren’t.

  • chris_xxxx

    “I am coming miserably to the conclusion that a kind of collective mental illness can whip large numbers of people into a Gadarene rush — and reason is helpless in its path.”

    Thank you Matthew for informing me that I suffer from a mental illness for supporting UKIP. There was I, believing that a party which has commonsense policies on immigration, education, defense and energy would be good for my country. I have booked an appointment with my local GP and will get back to you on his recommendations.

    Parris’s passive aggressive articles on UKIP are hilarious, in that they will have the opposite effect of what he wishes: more supporters for UKIP just before another by-election caused by an ex-Tory MP.

  • Jim_Watford

    As a Ukip member I’d like to thank you for all you do for us, keep up the good work.

    • Damaris Tighe

      Welcome to the speccie Jim_Watford.

      • Jim_Watford

        Thank you.

  • MRDODsas

    We are all voting UKIP, Parris you out of touch Toff tosser.

  • MangoBCoconut

    Here’s an interesting Wikipedia entry: Political abuse of psychiatry in the Soviet Union

    Want to shut down your political opponents? Call them mentally ill.

    • Simon Fay

      I never imagined, whilst watching the palace-coups in Eastern Europe circa 1989, that I was watching an attempt at rebooting systems with V1.0 in place, whilst V2.0 was already being rolled out in my own land.

  • Andrew Smith

    I am not a UKIP supporter and I won’t vote for them. I also find some of the monomania very simplistic. Not everything under the sun can be explained by reference to Brussels.

    Nevertheless, I can understand the anger, frustration and thus the motivation of UKIP. Great Britain as the UKIP supporters knew it between say 1964 and 1997 has been changed almost unrecognizably. A lot of this is due to Brussels, some to Blair’s governments and much of it has been adopted by Cameron’s conservative party.

    No-one really voted for any of this and those who complain about it are derieded, pooh poohed and generally ignored, called fascists, populists, swivel-eyed loons etc.

    No wonder UKIP gets support.

  • Wessex Man

    Oh really Mr Parris, your aim with the crude stupid remarks in your column wasn’t a bit of a jolly it was aa attempt to do down all things Ukip and in turn the electorate of Clacton, this is the sad silly as the the ‘New’ Tory party of David Cameron and his hangers on like you and Boris Johnson do as a matter of course.

    You and they so full of your own self importance you fail to grasp that every insult , every smear sends more people to the ranks of UKip.

    You and the modern day Tory Party will learn only when humilated in May that you have been too ‘clever’ and ensured years in opposition!

  • Greyfox

    Just can’t stop being condescending can he? It is this sort of patronising twaddle which instigates the malicious replies he complains about.

    • MRDODsas

      He sums up and personifies the Tory Party: Posh ,Rich, Out of touch, patronising.

      No wonder UKIP are hoovering up votes from the working class

  • Tim Morrison

    It is always contemptible to compare people with Nazis. No one is advocating genocide. That some of those comments made against Parris were dreadful is clear but I doubt anyone was contemplating doing to him what the SA did to their critics. Farage, whatever I think of him, is promoting a legitimate political view. I disagree with it but calling his supporters names does not win the argument or make them go away.

    It is also offensive. Everyone reading this will have had relatives killed in WW2. The left and the right with few exceptions united against Hitler. I don’t doubt that would happen again.

  • anyfool

    I see no Muslims moderate or not with their camp followers in the press and parliament shouting about all the disgusting attacks carried out on thousands of white schoolgirls.

    I see no Muslims or their camp followers in the press and parliament shouting about the disgusting mutilations and cultural treatments they enact on the own female children.

    And Mr Parris I see nothing that anyone can say that will change your childish view of other races.

    The vast majority in this country live next to these savages, they are not BBC Blacks and Muslims with their feigned civil personages, these people you know do not live in ghettoes with the black on black stabbing, with secret justice including honour killings dished out by third world peasants in the name of a savage ideology.

    The police do not even bother to go to these places now, why don’t you go and try living among them, just try it for a month, a bit like the fools who went to live on the dole for a week.
    Then come and spout your nonsense about Nazis and such among the indigenous population, even though you try to abrogate your use of the word, you must be really into the leftie tactics book by now.

  • Terry Field

    MP is all about being gay; a reality we are supposed to resolutely ignore. No it needs to be clearly articulated, that his orientation dominates his view of anything that does not smack of super-inclusivity. He feels directly threatened by anthing else. But that fear is in error.
    He is much more in danger by islamic attitudes than by gentle UKIP folk – and the Islamic lot came in as part of the open-border, tambourine-bashing leftie nonsense.
    The unthinking accept-all in British political life has been a long-standing dominant characteristic, and it is being re-assessed in the light of the obvious difficulties that such an undifferentiated approach has brought; Islam and its attendant difficulties, cultural dilution which is unwelcome to many, pressure on space, resources, etc. The incursion of foreign continental ideas like the present version of hard-faced corporate state socialism (dressed up as a third way) that we had rammed down our throats by cheesy little Blair and the slab-faced monster has produced a real and healthy reaction.
    Add to this the wars and adventurism as an alternative to hard confrontation of the seriously dangerous terrorist culture and its attendant massive number of passive acolytes, and the British worm is – at last – turning.
    As for ‘failure’, it is British style socialism that dines out on, and actively lives off personal failure; it sucks at the breast of individual desperation and failure with utter cynicism. The Scottish horror created a massive dependency culture, with more takers than givers – utterly degenerate and not as condemned as it should be even by what passes for the ‘right’.
    Many of its victims are quite reasonably attracted to UKIP
    British politics has lurched to the left over the last three decades, and anything previously thought a middle of the road is now characterised as ‘fascist’ or some other stupid unthinking idiotic word of abuse.
    Paris obviously fears for his life to even include nazism in the same paragraph as a conversation about UKIP.
    That is an obscenity, and he should recall that the gentle monoculture and petty conservatism of a very settled and traditional society was the one that withstood the horrors of German Nazi slaughter.
    I would remind Parris that the Mega-elephant in the room – the 1.4 TRILLION of un-repayable, accumulated state-issued debt is the result of governments of ALL shades, except that of the blessed Margeret (who Mathew also knew) using every device – including off-balance sheet private bank dodgy lending – to maintain the populations living standard well above productive output for every decade since the defeat of the very Nazis he refers to here.
    The Scot pushed personal borrowing against private assets, and then crowed about the ‘growth’ it brought to the much more conservative Germans.
    This is conveniently forgotten by the prostitutional political left that now invents the ‘evil banker’ diversion. For a lender, old son, there needs to be a borrower!!!!
    That degree of incompetent corruption – to generate an un-repayable debt – he NEVER refers to.
    Is he aware that the interest burden of servicing the debt is the same as the deficit??
    We are, in effect, capitalising the interest liability on the debt.
    Britain is all but incapable of uttering a budget that will sustain confidence and keep spending going even AFTER the coming cut of 80 or so billions!
    Is he so smooth and remote from these tiresome details that they are too tedious to recall- as they are for the idiot (or liar, you choose) Bilimand?????
    That vice-grip on the future is also part of the reason UKIP people are appearing like water from liquefied earth in an earth-quake.
    There is an earthquake going on, Mathew – and you should be bloody thankful that in Britain all that happens is that nice folk decide on a conservative sensible course of action like UKIP – and not like the antisemitic French horrors waiting in the nasty continental wings.
    Get a grip, Parris.
    Be thankful you are surrounded by gentle English folk and stop you absurd characterisations.
    I am sick of you over-compensating for being gay – get therapy if you cannot become normally objective.
    Frankly I am bored stiff by your bloody sexuality; We DO NOT CARE ABOUT IT
    You are probably a perfectly decent bloke, but so are the fellow citizens you abuse.
    Stop it now.

    • Richard Saint

      Well said, agree with everything. I think people are finally, slowly but surely, waking up.

      • Terry Field

        Yes, the tectonic plates are moving, but so much damage has been done now. SO much.

    • Alexandrovich


      • Terry Field


  • Samson


    Surely the worst type of Marxoid

    • Brimstone52

      I’m also wary of neo-Marxoids and those who have converted to Marxoidism. The latter are invariably more fervent than those born into the belief.

  • Meeshell Fooko

    It’s lovely to see the Kippers down here, in various states of dementia, proving Matthew Parris’s point.

    • Brimstone52

      As always, one of Parris’s little friends can be relied on to make juvenile jibes at whoever he’s attacking this week.

      • Meeshell Fooko

        I’m not a friend of Matthew Parris. But thanks again for proving his point.

        • Brimstone52

          Your sycophantic comment says you are a friend. You might just as well have said “I agree with Matthew”.

          Parris has no point, other than pathetic attacks on people with a different view.

          • Meeshell Fooko

            I do agree with Matthew. Kippers are a bunch of fruitcakes. You prove the point

          • Brimstone52

            Fruitcake, and decent cup of tea, has kept this country going through many trials and tribulations. Thank you for the compliment.

  • Colonel Mustard

    If you had the slightest knowledge of the rise of National Socialism in Germany you would understand that it had very little to do with populism until after the event and then most of that was coerced.

    The more chilling parallels are not from the modern British right at all but rather from the modern British left. There is of course a clue in the notion of one politicised nation and socialism.

  • Kevin T

    Parris is a troll, in the classical sense. Not the tabloid definition of someone who bullies people online, but the proper definition of someone who says inflammatory things purely to sit back and enjoy the reaction.

    Don’t feed the troll.

    • Chris Morriss

      In the classical sense? Perhaps if we expose him to the sun he’ll turn to stone!

  • Tim Hall

    This piece is priceless. He finally understands “populism”. In my world that is synonymous with the Real World, y’know, the one all us plebs live in. Light-years away from the hum, crackle and throb of Canary Wharf possibilities, sure, but ours nonetheless. How long exactly has Parris inhabited his rarefied bubble.? Oh, that’s right, all his adult life. Idiot representative of the “political class”

  • AyrshireThistle

    I totally agree with Matthew, I am also concerned at the move away from political discussion on policies and the drive to mass populist appeasement. When you have no core beliefs, except perhaps a single point such as get the UK out of EU, you can say whatever you like for your other policies, twisting and turning and playing to the media. Unfortunately the mainstream parties are making it easy by also focusing on populism rather than policies. One-trick ponies who are only there for power are the path to the unknown – exactly how do we know how they would govern, and am sure the Germans faced the same predicament. Thank you for this article, nice to know I am not the only person who is watching events with real concern about where all of this is going.

    • Colonel Mustard

      I’m more concerned about the way the leftist collective always try to shut down dissent – and thereby debate – by vilifying any dissenters.

      • AyrshireThistle

        left, right, nationalists – they are all at trying to shut down debate but it is easier if your core message is the UK is better than anyone else, makes a dissenter sound unpatriotic, and no-one wants to play the role of why the UK isn’t better so they shut down discussion and are ready to charge if you attack their one policy – all good for media manipulation. Of course in the meantime, the poverty gap gets wider, costs rise etc etc and we get embroiled in meaningless discussions and no-one actually works to change things for the better

    • Brimstone52

      I don’t think Parris’s favourite female prime minister was a “one trick pony” but she had some very strong core beliefs which chimed with many of the electorate and she was populist,even down to changing her voice, personal appearance and general style.

      • AyrshireThistle

        makes my point, all politicians now think that success is based on media appearance, rather than thought through policies and real social and economic change, balance has swung too much on to style rather than substance

        • Brimstone52

          Thatcher made her changes thirty five – forty years ago. It has only got worse since.

          Thatcher was also the first career politician to become PM. Thus far, the last with any real convictions.

          Sadly, far too many people are taken in by a pretty face and a smooth tongue rather than the substance of what is being proposed.

    • Bryan Tomlinson

      Scared of change and stuck in the past ?

      • AyrshireThistle

        hardly, I just prefer decisions to be based on more than jingoism

  • Alexandria

    Clue? Hasn’t got one – so far wrong it is unbelievable. There is no UKIP type. It is about democracy and lots of others things.

  • Nick

    Paris is a straight forward left winger.Therefore,he is ill.

    • Max07

      Funny … I thought he worked for Margaret Thatcher.

  • Antonia Willis

    Oh really. Perhaps Matthew Parris could dip into readers’ posts on the Mirror or New Statesman, which aren’t exactly uniformly charming; relief can be found over at Socialist Worker, though, who don’t allow any internet posts at all…

  • Tox66

    Matthew dear boy, how is it you can’t imagine the British being swept away by Jew-hatred? Of course they can be and, indeed, many of them are. The thing is though that the Jew-haters are predominantly on the left and can be read above the line and seen in plain view if you will but look. Cognitive dissonance is a terrible thing.

  • Funny enough the same thing is happening to the right wing in the US with TEA Party supporters suffering the Obama Derangement Syndrome (Muslim. Kenyan, Communist, Fascist, Gay, Manchurian Candidate) and Al Qaeda/ISIL death cult fetishism (suicide bombing, beheading, woman hating, music hating 72 virgin fantasy).

  • tolpuddle1

    Reading Matthew Parris, I finally understand the Nazis.

  • wattys123

    a couple of important points Hitler was a Lefty a National socialist, just like Stalin Mao Pol Pot and all the authoritarian other nut-jobs, if you want Right Wing look to Islam. UKIP are Libertarian you complete idiot

  • Laguna Beach Fogey

    It’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there among the readers’ posts.

    Of for fuck’s sake, Matthew, don’t be such a drama queen. We all know you have a sensitive disposition, but making shit up just isn’t on.

    • Max07

      Any online forum gets vile contributions. It’s the nature of the beast. I think Parris just doesn’t like the fact that people disagree with him.

  • Roger Hudson

    Internet ‘trolls’ are not the people who batter down doors just before dawn and will subdue you by screaming ‘police’ as loudly as possible, UKIP are not the people who have enacted ‘night and fog’ type legislation since the late 1990s.
    Wasn’t it Goebbels who looked at the measures the British Parliament came up with and marvelled at it’s draconian clauses.
    Britain is turning into a nasty mediocre bureau-fascist state and most people are day dreaming.

  • Mr Starter

    Parris thinks UKIP supporters have a mental illness which shows that he is unable to understand the rational behaviour of people who have become exasperated by years of bad political leadership with lies and deceit becoming more blatant as the country descends into an ungovernable chaos.Things have to change and if Parris thinks he can stop the change by insulting those who are at the forefront of change he is mistaken.

  • tolpuddle1

    Matthew, you come from a culture marked by arrogance.

    You suffer from the mass psychosis called elitism, that afflicts 99% of the British Establisment and upper-middles, and manifests itself in the symptoms of an insane optimism and the even crazier pretence that everything’s O.K. really.

    Reading you, I find myself sinking into a Hieronymus Bosch netherworld.

    And BTW, we are all going to the dogs, though not as fast as the “United” Kingdom itself.

  • Richard Reeves

    Dear Matthew,
    I would advise you to not read the comments posted here….. it’s probably going to ruin your weekend.
    Best wishes

  • tomgreaves

    Honest and interesting article. I think there needs to be a clear distinction made between thoughts that express emotions, especially highly charged and negative emotions like hatred and rage, and thoughts that assemble a reasoned argument or belief. Populism, as we have it in UKIP, is an expression of hatred and rage driven by perceptions of betrayal by the establishment. And no matter our opinion about the correctness of moral values involved it is plainly understandable that powerful emotions have been fired up in the relatively sudden appearance in the UK, of millions of immigrants at a time of economic uncertainty and stress. Many populists wish to punish the establishment anyway they can, and no argument has even a remote chance of being heard over the drums of rage. And I think you are being over sanguine Mr Parris, when you assume that the current rise of populist hatred is not on the scale of the Nazis. It is, but so far it has been sabotaged by an establishment effort to control it. I fear though, that we are at the early stages of a dangerous period and the rising tide of hatred is unlikely to abate without some kind of catharsis, which could easily be violent civil conflict and strife.

    • Bryan Tomlinson

      So it’s our fault for not agreeing with the minority views of Establishment Fascists ?

  • woohoo02

    Keep it up Mathew, with every piece of crap article you write, more Tory voters are moving to UKIP.
    UKIP HQ may even promote you to campaign manager 🙂

  • The_Average_Joe_UK

    M Parris, the best rallying call that UKIP has, please keep it up Matt, you are a prized pratt.

  • Polly Radial

    Population bad.
    Urban liberals good.
    Free speech bad.
    Urban liberals good.
    Immigration controls bad.
    Urban liberals good.

  • alainfahri

    There’s safety in numbers.

    It is uncomfortably predictable that the two recent Spectator articles attacking UKIP were written by the representatives of two minorities who always feel threatened – Jews and homosexuals. You share with Hugo Rifkind an understandable fear of a popular majority taking control. There is a difference between democracy and populism you would have us believe, so that opinion selectively canvassed and policies with the smell of powerful interest groups are better for us in the long term than the desires of the less well-connected masses, those who daily choke on the sophistry and hypocrisy that flows like diarrhoea from an incontinent media.

    Is there really need of more reasons to vote UKIP?

    • Alexandrovich

      Excellent. He would, lion-like, select populist wildebeest from the democratic herd but the futility and enormity of his task has now dawned upon him.

    • edithgrove

      That’s an unacceptable and incorrect response. You need to think about what you’re saying.

      • alainfahri

        If it is unacceptable to you I suggest that you do not reread it,but you should not deny that possibility to others. As for incorrect, what can that mean in relation to opinion?

    • timinsingapore

      So you think that it’s OK for popular majorities, the ‘less well-connected masses’, to intimidate Jews and homosexuals then?

  • Adem Aljo

    Yes! Finally, a journalist with the gumption to call out the UKIP online monster for what it is: a racist, bigoted and vain, even masturbatory group of ill conceiving, populist and bandwagon-chasing scum of the earth who want nothing more than the complete ruination of Great Britain and the United Kingdom because they’ve all either been raised incorrectly or had their minds corrupted as a result of the putrid and shallow, pointless little lives they lead.

    • Mr Starter

      Scary or what ! Matthew Parris alter ego speaks.

    • Sam_Beresford

      No sense of irony there then!

  • Windymac

    If it’s Nazis you’re interested in then you’re finally on the right track. Why don’t you research the origins of your beloved EU Empire? Clue: Start in 1940s Germany.
    Dark, biliious resentfulness? I think your irony filter is broken, Parris.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    “…a puss-filled queer…”

    I am a long way from being a spelling Nazi, but I think that that should be ‘pus-filled queer’.

    • Derek Phibes

      puss-filled ??

      So some kind of misunderstanding (hopefully) like ‘hamster heat’?

    • Max07

      Yes, ‘puss’ seems strangely inappropriate, in the circumstances.

      • Bill_der_Berg

        Perhaps someone was being a bit catty about Mr P.

  • timinsingapore

    I’ve felt for months, indeed years, that the general tone of much pro-UKIP commentary on these websites is indeed reminiscent of what one reads in serious accounts of pre-WW2 Germany – the same sense of grievance, blaming ‘them’, whoever they may be – immigrants, gays who want to get married, people who let them get married, the EU, LibLabCon, Cameron. Of course the line is that UKIP is not racist, that it’s opposed mainly to unrestricted immigration from EU countries. That is a whitewash, belied by any review of comments on these websites over any period of time, certainly not representative of UKIP supporters as they present themselves on line.

  • Russell MaJimmies

    So we have gone from a bunch of harmless, bigoted, old fuddy duddies to the greatest threat to world peace in a century?

  • Common Sense ✟ كافر

    No surprise Independent / Cambridge educated silver spoon Parris with multiple properties here and abroad has absolutely no idea.
    Never understood why “populism” is seen as a bad thing i.e what is popular and what the people want but do not get from our “leaders”.
    Anything from mass third world immigration to real sentencing for criminals – we get ignored over and over again.

  • Derek Phibes

    ” If you set out with sufficient determination from the founding premise that we’re all going to the dogs, and foreigners, Brussels, rich people and a massive conspiracy led by corrupt Westminster politicians and European ringmasters are driving us there…”

    As the British people only ever assented to a Common Market with no loss of sovereignty , and as the LibLabCon are desperate to not let the British people vote on this issue
    then one can only conclude your deliberate smears, misdirections and lies are to support the LibLabCon.

    People can read above your sneering association of democracy with the Far Left Nazis, and your opinion that your political opponents are mentally ill.
    Such is the level of your ‘counter-argument’ and ‘fact’.

    After reading your unsubstantiated drivel people can make up their own minds about your desperate ravings, motivations and mental state.

    • timinsingapore

      ‘As the British people only ever assented to a Common Market with no loss of sovereignty’ … so you don’t think that the Treaty of Rome (to which the British public assented by referendum) involves any loss of sovereignty?

      So Nazis were on the far left, were they? You are taking the term ‘national socialist’ far too literally.

  • Augustus Pugin

    “But I’ve always failed.”

    You’ve always failed because the picture of Nazi Germany presented to us, has always been from the side of the victors, who took every opportunity to present those they destroyed as inhuman and gripped by an insane form of evil that needed to be extinguished from the world. The Nazis are not meant to be understood, that is not the position they occupy within our culture, they are meant to be decried and opposed in order to give us some justification for having traded our empire away to engage in a European civil war in which millions of lives were needlessly lost.

    • Terry Field

      Yes, victor-propaganda is tiresome, but the Nazis were just a tiny touch naughty, do you not think???????

      • Augustus Pugin

        Sure, but no more than the Bolsheviks were. You don’t see us singling them out culturally as an example of radical, unholy evil.

    • Sam_Beresford

      Those lives were needlessly lost because of the Nazis of course! Surely you’re not suggesting that the UK fighting Hitler was ‘needless’?!

  • Aethelflaed

    My goodness Matthew, what an absolute hypocrit you are: your own tactics are straight out of the the book of propaganda written by Joseph Goebbels. Your slimy insinuations about Nazis, your put downs about people’s views (and worries). Why don’t you show a film about rats at the same time ????

    You want to see a ‘fascist’, then look in the mirror. Look at your item, whipping up hatred against anyone who disagrees with you that the EU and mass immigration are bad things for this country. Fascism has its roots in collectivism and putting the ‘state above all’ – hardly a ‘right wing’ position, is it?

    Have you ever written about the hatred of the left – UAF, SWP, the people who did terrible things after Mrs Thatcher died? It has been written (by sane men) that the ‘left’ are pathologically sick, and have infected society. Care to comment?

    Have you ever written about the fact it is wrong to label people as racists, bigots etc, and set the ‘attack dogs’ on them via the MSM – instead of listening to opinion and debating?

    Have you ever written about the tactics of the EU in Greece, Italy, Ukraine, in, getting rid of legitimate Governments and installing their own place men?

    Have you ever written about the ‘brown shirt’ tactis of the SNP during the Scottish referendum?

    Have you ever written about the ‘ROP’ and all the vile cultural practices that we now have to put up with on pain of being had up for a ‘hate crime’. Tell me Matthew, how come George Galloway had not been charged with a ‘hate crime’ for announcing Bradford as a ‘Jewish free area’?? Where as when a load of ROP adherants shouted abuse at soldiers in Luton, it was the crowd who answered back at them who got arrested. And, out of that injustice arose the EDL.

    You fully deserve every ‘nasty’ comment you get – and I suspect that your face will, justly, not be very welcome in Clacton.

  • ohforheavensake

    A little note to the people commenting below.

    You do know you’re proving Matthew’s right, don’t you?

    • Pootles

      No they are no. Take ‘flippit’s’ post – it’s not nasty, aggressive, unpleasant, or vicious, it is just outlinig an opposing view.

    • Sam_Beresford

      Have you actually read the comments below? There is scant evidence of the sub-fascist excreta Mr Parris describes – apart from those who agree with him about UKIP!

    • Aethelflaed

      Perhaps you could give us some examples of comments below that might belong in an ‘Hieronymus Bosch netherworld’.

      Personally, I think Hieronymus would have far more fun with a caricature of the mind that produces Matthew’s posts.

  • sfin


    When a culture welcomes another culture into it’s country – with open arms and no obligation for that culture to change, to assimilate with the host culture. The leaders of the host culture can pat itself on the back for its ‘tolerance’ – its openness to diversity.

    When the situation arises whereby the second generation of the immigrant culture feels it expedient to kill over 50 people, at random, on the public transport of the capital city of the host culture, attempt to saw the head off a soldier of the host culture, systematically rape thousands of underage females of the host culture, flock, in their hundreds, to join a foreign enemy of the host culture and barbarically slaughter host culture hostages…

    …then surely, the members of the host culture have the right to ask of its elected representatives:

    “What the f**k is going on?”

    • Damaris Tighe

      Great post, only just found it buried in the middle of the thead.

  • DDownie

    Yes Mr Parris.

    I had a glimpse of this a long, long time ago. There was a public meeting at a school about a proposed site for travellers, the proposal being led by a Lib Dem councillor. The school hall was packed. We (speaking as a Lib Dem supporter) were on a suicide mission even then. It was a very, very angry meeting. A Sikh stood up to support the idea and was howled down. The meeting was a look into the abyss.

    UKIP and the like are playing with fire. They know exactly what they are doing.

    I believe that the ability to post anonymously is just plain wrong. It allows people to express opinions that they would be ashamed to acknowledge publicly. Perhaps it even encourages them to be more vile than the last person to post.

    • teepee

      Would you be good enough to provide me with a list of opinions it’s acceptable to hold?

    • Derek Phibes

      ” We (speaking as a Lib Dem supporter) were on a suicide mission even then…”

      Yes, we know what you lot are about now, but most of us want to keep Britain and its ideals alive.

    • Kevin T

      You mean the horrid people didn’t want a traveller site near them?

    • teepee

      ‘A Sikh stood up to support the idea and was howled down.’ And where on the spectrum of naughtiness does failing to defer to the opinion of a brown-skinned person fall? A social faux pas, or an indicator of genocidal intent?

      • Derek Phibes

        ‘A Sikh stood up to support the idea and was howled down.’

        DDownie appears to regret that the Sikh supported the Lib Dems. He doesn’t understand that the idea was howled down.
        (Otherwise why would DDownie even mention ethnicity – its irrelevant in the context given?)

        • Max07

          Very strange. If you replace ‘sikh’ with ‘white C of E person’ it becomes even stranger. Where does ethnicity come into it? Unless of course he’s trying to say ‘majority whites = bad, ‘ethnic minorities = good.’ Typical naive LibDem tosh.

    • Aethelflaed

      Many people dislike having ‘travellers sites’ near to their homes as it causes many ‘problems’. Without, know the circumstances of this case, none of us can make any judgement whatever.

      Why should being Lib Dem or Sikh be of any relevance in the matter?

    • gerronwithit

      Go on, admit that you wrote the above tripe just to incense the implied Spectator audience. What we are all sick of is the travellers’ rights trumping the taxpayers’ rights and the use of a minority figure (Sikh) to justify your stance is equally obnoxious. So, come on tell us you were just having a laugh!

      • Max07

        Ha ha Gerronwithit – yes, perhaps it is a wind-up. It’s a little hard to tell these days.

    • Max07

      Did you give any thought to the poor unfortunates who would have to live next door to your proposed site for travellers? Somehow I’m betting that it wasn’t at the bottom of your own garden.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Michael Foot was a loveable old buffer who would not have dreamed of making nasty comments about Gypsies (as they were called in his day). For all that, he managed to get a band of travellers moved on pretty quickly when they set up camp near his favourite walk on Hampstead Heath.

      Another MP, a liberal Tory, was not overjoyed when Camden Council proposed to establish a Gypsy caravan site next to his home. Possibly he was concerned about the likely impact on property prices. Whatever the reason, the council was forced to think again.

      Neither MP was regarded as illiberal. Perhaps they preferred to look benignly on travellers from a distance.

      • Max07

        Absolutely, Bill der Berg. Having been the unwilling (and unwitting, as far as the cloak-and-dagger set up was concerned) recipient of a delightful group of ‘vulnerable people’ as next door neighbours, I know just what sort of double-dealing goes on behind the scenes to ensure that no one who has any sort of clout gets inconvenienced by the people they purport to champion. That tired old phrase ‘they have to go somewhere’ was trotted out to me on numerous occasions by a fairly diverse group of people. They did, however, have one thing in common: none of them actually lived next door to problem people themselves. They felt for them, they cried real tears for them, but in the end they didn’t live with them.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          In my experience, nobody – whatever their politics – welcomes the establishment of Gypsy sites near their homes. Well, except for Matthew Parris, of course.

  • souptonuts

    The title to this vainglorious piece is shockingly inappropriate.

  • Jonathan Sheridan

    What a depressingly stupid article

  • Aethelflaed

    Reading Matthew Parris’ Articles, I Finally Understand How ‘Airstrip One’ Might Have Been Created.

  • gerronwithit

    Matthew, when you decided to get down and dirty with the proletariat it appears that you did not like the experience one little bit. You chose the agenda, the wording and the none too subtle criticism of the people who live in Clacton. What you have received in return I am sure ranges from agreement, reasoned argument against, vilification, and downright nastiness. When you stir the hornets’ nest with a big stick you really must expect to be stung!

    However, what your still do not do, to use a Cameronianism, is Get It! For far too many years you and your cosseted colleagues have been living in the Bubble of Westminster with all your little minority groups whose wishes have been allowed to supersede those of the great unwashed British public for far too many years.

    You do not seem to have been humbled in any way by your experience so far. You provide us with a valid list of our grievances which you appear to define as paranoia on our part. The word ‘populism’ is the latest insult to be thrown by your elite coterie at the majority of the British public, which actually means that you know better than the rest of us all of the time and implies that a vote by the British public is almost an insult to the intelligence of the bien pensant.

    Just as well you are no longer an MP, Matthew, or the reality of your ill considered views of the electorate would almost certainly have resulted in you gifting your seat to UKIP. And I don’t believe I was really genuinely nasty to you personally in this comment.

  • annewareham

    I knew what we are all capable of when I was at school – a good place to learn about how badly people can behave.

    If we don’t face our own vulnerability to feeling hatred and contempt we also stay vulnerable to being evil.

    This seems to me to be a more accurate view of our current political situation :

  • IMarcher

    What a dishonest, sneaky and nasty article.
    If he really didn’t think his opponents were like Nazis he wouldn’t have mentioned them.
    Parris really is a nasty piece of work.

  • mohdanga

    “If you set out with sufficient determination from the founding premise that we’re all going to the dogs, and foreigners, Brussels, rich people and a massive conspiracy led by corrupt Westminster politicians and European ringmasters are driving us there, and anyone who argues otherwise must be part of the conspiracy, then there is almost no counter-argument, no fact, that cannot be navigated round. ”
    Yet the left and it’s multiculti, mass immigration proponents do exactly this when they are presented the facts that their social engineering experiments are a failure!! Anyone who objects to mass immigration and the changing of their culture right before their eyes because of Muslim and 3rd world enrichers (much of it foisted on the country by unelected EU bureaucrats) is labelled (pick your favourite) a ‘racist’, ‘xenophobe’, ‘bigot’, ‘Islamophobe’, ‘hater’, ‘little Englander’. People are fed up with their societies being changed for the worse and being told by the likes of Parris that it is for the better!

  • pobinr

    The left like immigration for votes
    The right like immigration for cheap labour
    We in the squeezed middle have to put up with & pay for;
    * Low wage immigrants entitled to more than they pay in tax from child benefit, social housing, working family tax credits, NHS, subsidised Nursery care etc
    * Cheap imported labour that drives wages down & take jobs from locals
    * Classes full of kids that need special lessons in speaking basic English
    * Being told it’s just Daily Mail fiction when we see it with our own eyes
    * £600k a day going in child benefits to children in Eastern Euorpe
    * 28,000 or is it 5,000 Romanians I don’t care, held for crimes
    * Higher house prices & rents due to increased demand
    * More crowded surgeries & longer NHS queues
    * More dependance on food & energy imports
    * Worst housing shortage since WWII
    * More & more houses on greenbelt
    * More & more road congestion
    * Child grooming gangs
    * People traffickers
    * More red tape
    * More pollution
    * More crowds
    * More queues
    UKIP are not right wing. They are the party for people in the middle who are victims of decades treachery & treason from FibDemLabCon MP’s, many of whom I hope to see getting their P45’s next year.
    Here’s to the people’s army in 2015

  • pobinr

    Our membership of the EU & the ECHR is unlawful.
    We should withdraw from both immediately.
    The people’s army should be mobilised to arrest all EUrophile MP’s for treason.
    Our politicians were not entitled to abandon our rule of law by handing over the powers of British governments to a foreign power.
    They betrayed our heroes that fought in two world wars & a cold war to defend our right to be a self governed nation.
    Democracy ended on the day Edward Heath broke his oaths of office by signing the 1972 European Communities Act & thus surrendered our sovereignty to the EU.
    He even had the gaul to say in a television broadcast:
    “There are some in this country who fear that in going into Europe we shall in some way sacrifice independence and sovereignty. These fears, I need hardly say, are completely unjustified”
    The real face of the EU
    22 minutes in
    In 2001 a market trader was convicted for selling a pound of bananas weighed with British imperial measures rather than metric ones.

    In passing judgment Judge Morgan said – ‘We are now living under a new legal order. The 1972 European Communities act was a one off, not an ordinary treaty, but a new way of life. These are new constitutional powers. The British Parliament surrendered its sovereignty in 1972. European laws have overriding force with priority over our own laws… The articles on the supremacy of the British parliament are now only of historical perspective – They are non binding.’

    Question – Were our politicians entitled to abandon our rule of law by handing over the powers of British governments to a foreign power?

    Answer is a simple NO – We have much written constitution which is not really fully appreciated in this country. These documents our bill of rights & declaration of rights along with Magna Carta & many other legal instruments make it quite plain that allegiance is owed to the queen & that allegiance is returned by her through the contract of her coronation oath to the people & that is not something which may be broken & our politicans are not entiled to break their oaths of office.

    The question you can ask our ministers is – How is it they have sworn oaths of office that say they will defend all jurisdictions & authorities belonging to her majesty against all foreign powers & then they give away those powers of governance or are purporting to give away those powers of governance to those that owe no allegiance to this crown?’

    John Bingley – consitutional expert

    • bhutanbeau

      He even had the gaul to say in a television broadcast..
      esus and he calls himself an expert…:)

      • Chris Morriss

        Perhaps the broadcast was by Asterix!

  • scott01634

    articles like this crack me up

  • David

    So sad that someone I once used to read avidly in the nineties – and find perfectly reasonable – has got to the stage of cheap ad hominem platitudes about a party that is simply insisting that we should govern ourselves, just like we once did. Every time someone mentions UKIP, racist and/or Nazi in the same article they’re just reinforcing a trope that has no base in reality and is there simply to cause political damage to the only party that is currently speaking truth to power.

  • NickG

    Henceforth to be known as Mathew Godwin Parris.

  • jeffersonian

    “…and reason is helpless in its path.”

    ‘Reason’ being Mr Parris presumably.

    The self-regard of this man is astounding.

  • teigitur

    You were not much of a politician Mr Parris, seems you are not much of a journalist either. Perhaps you should just stick to running marathons.

  • pobinr

    Mass immigration means wages driven down & house prices driven upwards & traffic queues made longer.
    Yet Labour support this!
    If you are mad then Vote Labour.
    If you’re plain confused & live in a bubble, then Vote DimLib

  • pobinr

    ‘mass psychosis we call populism ‘
    I call it democracy.
    Paris is such a snob he doesn’t think the masses are intelligent enough to decide anything for themselves.
    Apparently the thinking classes like Paris believe we should all love the following things;
    * Low wage immigrants entitled to more than they pay in tax from child benefit, social housing, working family tax credits, NHS, subsidised Nursery care etc
    * Cheap imported labour that drives wages down & take jobs from locals
    * Classes full of kids that need special lessons in speaking basic English
    * Being told it’s just Daily Mail fiction when we see it with our own eyes
    * £600k a day going in child benefits to children in Eastern Euorpe
    * 28,000 or is it 5,000 Romanians I don’t care, held for crimes
    * Higher house prices & rents due to increased demand
    * More crowded surgeries & longer NHS queues
    * More dependance on food & energy imports
    * More & more centralised control by the EU
    * Worst housing shortage since WWII
    * More & more houses on greenbelt
    * More & more road congestion
    * Child grooming gangs
    * People traffickers
    * More red tape
    * More pollution
    * More crowds
    * More queues
    UKIP are not right wing. They are the party for people in the middle who are victims of decades treachery & treason from FibDemLabCon MP’s, many of whom I hope to see getting their P45’s next year.
    Here’s to the people’s army in 2015

    • GraveDave

      Paris is such a snob he doesn’t think the masses are intelligent enough to decide anything for themselves.

      Be honest most of them aren’t. And the right have said as much themselves often enough.

  • MartinWW

    My only response to such a scandalous article is too feel a deep pity for the writer.

  • pobinr

    What’s the difference between cigarettes and Eastern European murderers?
    You can only bring 200 cigarettes into the UK before the authorities start asking questions.
    This has gone on for a decade too long.
    Vote LibLab & it will go on forever.
    VoteTory & it will go on for at least another 3 years.
    Vote UKIP to get it sorted next year.

    • GraveDave

      What’s the difference between having a f a g and having a puff.

  • Ali

    Matthew Parris.

    Democracy is hard to understand,
    For him who knows that his ways are the best.
    It troubles him that over all the land,
    Are people who think differently, attest
    To the idea that you cannot predict
    What others care about by asking those
    You know already think like you. The strict
    Illiberal rules he loves, and would impose
    On all the world are held in deep contempt
    By other, wiser men. And so he flounces,
    And gets into a childish pet. To tempt
    His betters from their lairs he pronounces
    That they’re Nazi-like and must be mad.
    From one who once was likeable it’s sad!

  • blingmun

    I could be very rude about Matthew Parris and it’s sorely tempting to bate someone who is so narcissistic. But he has a role in convincing the undecided about the aloofness and arrogance of the ruling elite and how much contempt they have for normal people. He’s doing a great job for UKIP and it time he will be fired by the likes of the Times who will come to realise how out of sync he is with their readers.

  • ugly_fish

    I used to enjoy reading Parris’s columns, but now he has lost the plot completely, and I am afraid I have had to give up on him.

  • thomasaikenhead

    “Like many, I’ve always been a bit baffled by the story of the rise of Nazism.”

    Really, I would have thought that it is rather well-documented and widely understood by now, or are you saying that you think that the Holocaust Education Trust is not doing a good job Matthew?

  • berosos_bubos

    Rape stats up 50% in a year ?

    • MrJones

      now some of the truth has broken through the media silence the police don’t have to fiddle the stats so much – so it didn’t really go up 50% – the stat fiddling went down x%

      (the police can’t deal with crime the political class says doesn’t exist because then the political class will say its racial harassment – so it gets fiddled instead)

  • pointlesswasteoftime

    You’ll bring out the bile here. But that proves your point.

  • Richard Eldritch

    What a knob.

  • Ian

    What a load of wining drivel. And there’s an advert to pay to read this nonsense!!

  • pobinr

    Some words from a Southampton Resident on the UKIP leaflet.

    ‘My Name is Albert Griffiths and I was born in 1924 in London. My father was injured in the first world war and had to have both legs amputated. He could not provide for all six children on his small pension, so I was adoptedby a family and moved to live with them in Romford, Essex when I was nine.

    At age 14 I was sent to a training farm where learned about looking after animals and crops. I also joined the Dagenham Sea Cadets. We were issued with old carbine rifles that had been used in the American Civil war!

    In 1942 I signed up for the Royal Navy as a trainee radio operator. I was assigned to HMS London and sailed on Arctic Convoy PQ20, taking essential supplies to northern Russia. The weather conditions were quite bad. I was later posted on the Wild Goose, which sank more German U boats than any other vessel. I took part in the Normandy landings, and that was a traumatic experience. I left the Navy in 1946, but continued to work in radio for many years.

    I support UKIP because I am fed up with the people’s voice not being heard and even now, in my senior years will strive for an independant self-governed country.’

    • Richard Eldritch

      Clearly he’s an insane Nazi populist.

      • pobinr

        Brilliant 🙂

    • timinsingapore

      It has escaped Albert, and you, that one of the prime motivations behind formation of the EU was to interlock the interests of European countries so that such a conflict never happens again. That’s why the generation of leading politicians who played active military parts in the war were generally pro-EU. ‘Independent self-governed countries’ have done a pretty good job of slaughtering each other’s populations over the last century or two.

  • Rifleman1853

    So, you think that what you call ‘populism’ – and what I call “taking heed of the views of voters” – is a mass psychosis?

    And you think that WE are mentally ill?

    The bad news is that you’re suffering from a well-known condition which psychiatrists call ‘projection’, Parris; but the good news is that there are effective treatments available.

  • Terence Wilkinson

    Interesting article and since I have been the victim of UKiP rancour on The Telegraph’s website I can relate with Matthew. However I would be interested to know where Matthew places the SNP on his fascist scale especially since losing their referendum they have been talking about days of retribution and revenge against those who dared to vote against their nationalist-socialist paradise, especially the rich and the elderly. The soon to be ex-First Minister has been using language, in my opinion, as bad, if not worse, as that used by Enoch Powell in his “Rivers of Blood” speech. One last thing I think the assumption that Nazis/Fascists were “right-wing” is old hat and was invented by Marxists to disguise the similarities between the two ideologies. Many prominent fascists started life as Marxists, while the Nazis were The National Socialist Workers Party.

    • Morgoth

      The SNP do not challenge the Politically Correct hegemony or try to protect Scottish ethnic interests at all, so a Liberal such as Matthew doesn’t mind them in the slightest.

  • Richard Eldritch

    Just remember this odious little girl when you’re in the voting booth.

  • FrankS2

    “Dear David,
    We must get a new electorate.
    Yours, Matthew (former MP)”

    • Absolutely_Passionate

      They’re working on it.

  • Morgoth

    I finally understand the Nazis as well, Matthew, they were terrified that Europe would come to be dominated by people such as yourself.

    Given the utter hatred and contempt Liberals such as you have shown towards the Natives of Europe the Nazis were correct in their assessment of the dangers you people represented.

  • 70sgirly

    Get over yourself Parris, you spat your contempt at the people of Clacton. You really shouldn’t be surprised at the vitriol thrown back at you, but you are and from that; “you understand the Nazis”?! Now that’s crazy.

  • evad666

    Mathew dear boy may I suggest you urgently familiarize yourself with the idea of the cultural disconnect and group think.
    Then start to reconnect with the people and start to think for yourself.

  • JonBW

    There is no excuse for the kind of abuse that is described here.

    However, if you judge any argument by the behaviour of all those who would make it, you would dismiss every argument.

    I have seen equally abhorrent posts in response to articles on everything from homeopathy to the death of Baroness Thatcher.

    The fact that some people are filled with vitriol and have no manners is irrelevant to politics.

    And if this debate has enabled you to understand populism, you’ve misunderstood it… though your original remarks did illustrate very effectively what most people mean by ‘elitism’ (and, dare I say, snobbery?).

  • Gerschwin

    How precious can you be?

  • Storris

    Matthew Parris: Troll-Bait extraordinaire

    Your essential point seems to be that all Ukip supporters are bigots. I can’t think of a more bigoted statement to make.

    Matthew, had you taken the time to come down from your ivory tower more regularly and with objectives other than confirming your prejudice, you would notice some important things.

    Crack-pots exist, everywhere.

    The BBC is seemingly full of misogynist, paedophilic rapists. The Labour Party, the PLP, is full of men and women intent on defrauding the nation, Lib Dems have their own Misogynist sex offenders to deal with, while over at Conservative HQ we see people intent on going to war as often as possible with as little provocation as can be mustered into outrage. And all three of them are hiding from the allegations of a Westminster paedophile ring cover-up.

    Yes Ukip has gained support from people one wouldn’t invite to dinner, but hasn’t every party?

    But Ukip the party has one goal, of removing the Uk from the clutches of the Eu. Their goal is supported by some pretty common sense arguments, all built on the historically empirical fact that we can do better. Ukip supporters do not start from a place of despair, but from a place of optimism.

    That ‘the media’ has been unable to counter these arguments with any success should tell you something about the verity of Ukip’s position. That ‘the media’, you included’ has taken to out-bigoting the supposed bigots, should tell you even more.

  • DeadEye Jill

    I’m sorry you’ve experienced rudeness, I myself am a UKIP supporter, as are many of my formerly Labour voting friends and family, we’re usually mild mannered people.

    I’ve seen all the Facebook, twitter, Reddit and tumblr rants about UKIP, most of the hysterical screaming about “Nazis, fascism, bigotry blah blah” can be debunked by going through a few UKIP videos on youtube or actually by talking to UKIP voters like fellow human beings.
    How hard is it to understand that most UKIP voters love Europe but dislike the EU? We are not anti immigration but pro controlled immigration. We don’t believe in treating people like special little snowflakes just because they’re not heterosexual or white, and we don’t believe in bestowing “minorities” with the left’s preferred status of ‘perpetual victim’, but we most certainly do respect that everyone has a right to a decent standard of life and equal opportunities. It’s common sense politics and who can blame us after seeing what the alternative has done to Britain? Some of the articles I’ve been reading right here this evening about the monumental twattery of the left gives me further determination to keep on voting UKIP so they can really start to change the political landscape of the country I love.

    • David

      Spot on. Fairness, for everyone! No positive discrimination, no negative discrimination. Commonsense. Accountability. Democracy. All alien concepts to the EU and LibLabCon.

    • CO Jones

      Perhaps with views like that you should offer yourself as a UKIP candidate: you’ve got my vote!

  • Michael Ellis

    Still sulking are we 🙂

  • Alb Einstein

    Oh great, so those of us that disgracefully have a different view to you must be mentally ill? Seriously, think about that sounds and what it says about you.

  • rodger the dodger

    This is a classic, like Oborne’s piece over on the Telegraph today. Two old men who just can’t leave the twentieth century behind. You’re like people who complained when coins went decimal.

  • Hegelguy

    Yes, the recent events in the UK and Europe have at least one virtue: they finally have helped me to clear up a lifelong puzzle of mine? How could an accomplished people like the Germans have fallen for Hitler?

    You get a cynical society that doesn’t care for the poor, and you get Hitler.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Pre-war Britain was not greatly concerned about the poor, yet the country was not hitlerised.

      • Hegelguy

        I have ideas on this.

        YOU do some thinking. Why did Britain not get hitlerised then and why does that not apply today?

        • Bill_der_Berg

          A Hitleresque party would have meant militarism, an aggressive foreign policy with its risk of war; a state-controlled press; the suppression of political opposition, traders unions, and the jailing of dissidents.

          Not an appetizing prospect for a public who wanted to avoid war.

          • Hegelguy

            All of which applied to Germany, too.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Do you really believe that the Nazis were able to seize power with no public support?

          • Hegelguy

            No, they had plenty of it.

            The real question is why fascism did not happen in the UK in the Thirties in any big way (discounting the clowning of the Mosley Blackshirts).

            Why not the UK – if Germany was hit so badly?

            Moreover, why are the conditions for UK immunity weakening today?

            Think about it !

          • Bill_der_Berg

            You might ask that question if you think that, for some reason, the UK should have turned fascist. It might be more pertinent to ask why communism did not take hold here. It certainly made more headway than fascism. There were a few communist MP’s, academics and trade union leaders supported communism.

            What makes you think that conditions are more favourable for fascism these days?

          • Hegelguy

            “What makes you think that conditions are more favourable for fascism these days?”

            I want you to think about that.

  • Suzy61

    Who chose your headline Matthew?


    • David

      In Matthew’s defence, I doubt it was him. It will have been a (not very subtle) sub-editor at the Spectator.

      Still, this is a pisspoor piece of writing from Matthew and you can understand how the sub arrived at that headline.

      Can we please stop this ‘guilt by association’ strategy that UKIP’s detractors are running – UKIP/Nazi/Racist/BNP.

      UKIP are mostly middle aged men in pullovers, and aren’t likely to start murdering people on grounds of ethnicity anytime soon – or indeed ever.

  • Lady Magdalene

    Matthew Parris: Still arrogant; still patronising and still completely out-of-touch.
    The point about “populist” policies is that they are popular – so they attract votes.

    That seems to be something which the LibCONs surrounding Cameron (like Parris and his boyfriend) don’t seem to understand. Their brand of BluLabour isn’t popular: the voters don’t want Blair-lite. And they don’t want the pro-EU soft-left policies espoused by the LibCons:.

    But Parris will never admit that. How could he possibly be wrong: he’s ALWAYS right, because ……… because …….. because …… he MUST BE. He can’t possibly admit that he just might be wrong.

  • weejonnie

    I must admit that I thought the whole reason for democracy was vox populi. And if you thought UKIP comments are bad then you should spend a few evenings over at the Guardian Website.

  • Matthew, you might want to descend from the ivory tower, and see how Peter C.Newman soiled his reputation in Canada.

    For you are repeating the mistakes he made, because both of you encountered what is foreign to your sensibilities, and frankly doubt was close by that those you deride could actually be correct.

  • pobinr

    Labour – Anti referendum, pro EU and pro immigration.
    Result = Mass immigration of cheap labour driving down wages, taking jobs, taking homes, making more traffic congestion and making slumlords & low wage payers richer.
    But that’s the opposite of Socialism isn’t it?
    Labour the party for people that don’t believe in Labour principles!

    Liberal Democrats – The party of liberty, democracy and equality who are anti having the liberty to decide on Europe via a referendum and anti democracy in being EUrophiles. Pro equality yet they want to treat EU citizens preferentially!
    But that’s the opposite of liberty and democracy & equality isn’t it?
    LibDems the Party for people that don’t believe in liberty, democracy or equality

    Tories – The party of small government most of whom are EUrophiles meaning gigantic bloated centralised EU government that’s ballooning out of control.
    But that’s the opposite of Conservatism isn’t it?
    Conservatives in reality the party for People that need to vote UKIP if they are conservative

    Vote for the three main parties and get the opposite of what you want!

    The common sense solution >

  • Rockin Ron


  • Isage000

    Carswell astounded the political establishment by voluntarily seeking an elected mandate from his constituents under the UKIP banner. Reckless is doing likewise. Smear attacks like this demonstrate why the Westminster stables need Herculean cleansing. And why that cosy clique are running so scared that smearing is all they have left.

    • Keep on speaking honestly, and with a smile, and the harvest of votes gathered by UKIP would be truly monumental.

  • pobinr

    Mathew Parish has brain wiring issues. If you know what I mean!
    It shows in his warped batty liberalism whereby he hates the majority & thinks when they have the liberty to decide on anything then it’s populism rather than democracy !
    In fact his kind are more libero fascists.
    You vill agree with us pandering to minorities. Vee know what is best for you !
    Also a brain wiring issue in other respects. Say no more ducky !

  • Isage000

    Someone apparently once quipped on twitter that every time James Delingpole opened his mouth a thousand new socialists were created. It was unlikely to be true. But every time Matthew Parris opens his mouth, 10,000 new UKIP supporters are created, and that IS likely to be true.

  • Simon_in_London

    They’re not Nazis, but they act like Nazis because they (who may well be Americans, or other non-British!) have low “opinions about their fellow countrymen, about foreigners, about immigrants, about Muslims, about MPs (all MPs), about the rich, about London, about culture, about business people, and about anyone of a liberal disposition”? Wow. Have you seen any 18th century political pamphlets?

    The reality – which you seem to recognise – is that anything at all like Nazism has hardly any support in Britain, even from people who hate what Britain has become. Thus the post-Fascist BNP, who would be considered quite a mild Far-Right party in most of Europe, were never successful even after 13 years of Blair-Brown’s efforts to ‘Rub the Right’s Noses in Diversity’ (per Andrew Neather). UKIP is only successful because the Left’s attempts to paint its leaders and supporters as brownshirts are so transparently untrue.

    As for anonymous Internet comments, if they upset you I strongly suggest not reading them.

  • Anton Duem

    A lot of us Ukippers are very fond you Mr Parris. You say as it is, UKIP and the Conservatives are very different and the Conservatives shouldn’t bother pursuing or pandering to Ukip supporters. Obviously listening to Cameron’s proposals on immigration today he doesn’t agree with you, so take it up with him.

    As for the Nazis I’m with Orwell, if we saw people Goosestepping down the street we’d just burst out laughing.

    BTW a 2:32 Marathon……Respect!

  • Kennie

    Suggested entry for wikipedia:
    Matthew Parris: Would-be Upper class toff, shows same signs of stupidity and aloofness as his Westminster/Downing Street masters and idols.
    Also known as one of the best Recruiting sergeants for UKIP. (notice that Parris, you are not officer material, an NCO)

  • pobinr

    LibLab love immigration & the Jihadi seekers allowance >

  • UmUmUmUmUmUm

    I urge everyone to read James Delingpole’s take on Matt’s run in with Clacton on his Breitbart blog, ” Matthew Parris’s year zero attitudes owe more to Pol Pot than Conservatism”. I think James gets Matthew bang to rights.

  • And why exactly do you think it has become so “dark and resentful down there”, Matthew?!

  • DaHitman

    The Nazis were Socialists just like your Lib-Lab-Con and their beloved EU

  • UKSteve

    “Reading the comments on my Ukip columns, I finally understand the Nazis.”

    Reading your brainless bilge makes me understand why the country is in such a God-awful mess.

  • UKIP, Ron Paulites, Libertarians and Nazis are very similar. They love their leaders

    • gfr

      As opposed to LibLabCon who HATE Camoron, Millipede and Clegg

    • Storris

      Libertarians love leaders? I think you’ve missed something fundamental about libertarians here.

  • you_kid

    Matthew, not to worry.
    Ukip supporters are not [N-word], cannot be compared to [N-word] and do not aspire to be [N-word]. They are just not clever, organised and sangfroided enough.

  • pobinr

    Parris is doing exactly what racists do.
    Judging a group of people based on a small minority of the group.
    I’m in UKIP. I’ve yet to meet any racists.
    We simply want our democracy back & proper controls on immigration to prevent the problems now caused by too much immigration.
    What is racist about that?

    • gfr

      When somebody calls you a racist it’s USELESS to say: “I’m not a racist”..
      The correct response is to say: “You eat babies, and you should be drummed out of polite society, and here’s WHY…”
      And then write out a long list of reasons why that person SUCKS..

  • gfr

    Parris says that UKIP members are all Nazis because some of them have made comments that show that they have a low opinion of muslims.
    But when muslims commit mass rape, murder women and children in large numbers, sell people into slavery, and cut the heads off of British aid workers – in his mind, somehow that DOESN’T reflect on the majority of muslims.
    What POSSIBLE reason could the SPECTATOR have for employing a man who APPROVES of these DESPICABLE acts?
    If only those poor benighted UKIP voters were able to cleanse their minds and appreciate the manifold benefits of jihad, they would be fit to join the mainstream LibLabCon voters and fully partake of the joys of the EU Hive-mind..
    Right up to the point when they have their heads cut off..

  • pobinr

    I recently drove from Bedford to Southampton at 8pm on a Sunday evening on our gridlocked M1, M25 & M3.
    Took 3.5 hours instead of 2 is used to take.
    Immigration good for us ????
    Yes if you’re a tarmac contractor !
    Thanks FibDemLabCon messing up our country
    The best way I can get back at the traitors is to vote UKIP
    Roll on 2015

    • gfr

      Is it still Sunday in the UK?

  • Innit Bruv

    There are a lot more of these people than you think Matthew!!
    A lot of them read this publication,( some of them even write for it)…

  • David Prentice

    Matthew, you have led a charmed life – Oxford, politics, flitting between BBC studios and the Times, dispensing your pearls. But you don’t have children, you’re not really a stakeholder, so the anxiety people feel when they consider what they’re bequeathing their children, including the state of the country, is beyond you.

    • gfr

      A lot of things are beyond him, and will remain that way..

  • stag

    Have you never read ‘Heart of Darkness’ by Conrad? One of the clearest and most eloquent acknowledgements of that violence and chaos which civilization constantly suppresses, but never eliminates. Rather late in life to be having an epiphany about that…

    But please don’t despair, Matthew. Don’t feast on that “carrion comfort”, as Manley-Hopkins memorably called it.

  • TRAV1S

    Don’t you talk about Nazis to me mate, I’m the son of a Blitz survivor.

    And if Hitler was around today he’d be a Multiculturalist, because he loved ethic cleansing. You sir are the Ernst Rohm of the Metropolitan Liberal Elite with all your ethic cleansing policies. And you do so from your house in Portugal.

    • gfr

      I’m the Grandson of a Blitz Survivor, two of them actually. And two of my Uncles DIDN’T survive..

  • brotherbaldrick

    Ha, ha Mathew Paris, the little narcissistic sociopath. Boy he doesn’t like it up ‘im!

  • English Aborigine

    I wasn’t aware that UKIP predates the nazi party

  • John Andrews

    Dear Matthew, had you but mentioned Rochester in this article you could have done UKIP as much good as you did with your joke about Clacton being a “friendly resort trying not to die, filled with friendly people trying not to die”. Perhaps you have forgotten that in March 2012 ‘Geoffrey Butler subjected Reinhard and Kathryn Wendt to four years of ”misery” by loudly playing Vera Lynn’s White Cliffs Of Dover, the Dambusters theme tune and Rule Britannia, Medway Magistrates’ Court was told today.’

  • Jabez Foodbotham

    who knew or guessed what was happening to Jews, homosexuals and other minorities

    Another anti-historical special pleader spreading the bullshit line that the Nazis singled out homosexuals for the terrible fate destined for the Jews. Schoolkids are probably taught this line these days, but he should know better.

    • moggie79

      What? Are you saying the Nazis didn’t kill homosexuals?

  • Tim Reed

    “The worst of it — the nub of it — is, first, the paranoia; second, the
    blind hatred that follows the paranoia; and third (and relatedly) the
    blanking of their minds, the glazing over of their eyes, the blocking of
    their ears, whenever confounded by a counter-example or
    incontrovertible correction to a false claim.”

    In this I see a perfect description of the hard left – those of the UAF and HopeNotHate and other union linked protest groups.

    I see no right-of-centre groups taking to the streets regularly to harass and verbally abuse their opponents, or organise demonstrations that almost inevitably descend into violence and vandalism.

    I see much of that from very well organised and funded leftist groups.
    So which is the greater threat to civility in this country?

    It was also the author of this piece who effectively labelled the people of Clacton, and those of a similar demographic, as ‘untermenschen’. Who is doing the de-humanising?

  • Wessex Man

    #You should feel very very happy, you haven’t had this much of an airing for so many years. The fact that most of us are gagging in distaste of even having to debate with you matters not at all. To you all publicity is good, the fact that your very fertile brain is fillled with bilge matters not at all!

  • MrJones

    The political and media class covered up the gang-rape and forced prostitution of thousands of English children because it conflicted with their PC narrative and the political class – by their continued silence over “how many Rotherhams?” – are still trying to bury it.

    As long as kippers keep pointing that out the moral authority of the political class will keep draining away bit by bit and their morality based attacks will become increasingly ineffective.

  • CO Jones

    You may not realise this, Mr. Parris, but you have become a caricature of yourself and your ilk. Please keep it up: every twisted line that emanates from your twisted thought processes is worth a lorry-load of votes for UKIP.

    • alfredo

      Quite. I’m not sure many UKIP members, on learning from Parris that not only are they pigs – of the Gadarene variety – but psychotic pigs, are going to cancel their membership or change their voting intentions instantly.
      I’m surprised that the Tories don’t take a break from shooting themselves in both feet and shoot Parris instead.

      • CO Jones

        Can’t be done, alfredo: if the Tories stopped shooting themselves in the foot they would remove the only target that they are able to hit with any degree of certainty …

  • colchar

    Can I invoke Godwin’s Law on this entire column?

  • Lydia Robinson

    Matthew is evidently not familiar with the Jew baiting columns of the Guardian and the North Korean style censorship of its Komment Macht Frei section. If you want Neo Nazis, one has to look no further than the sordid and bizarre alliance between the ultra left and Islamists.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      The Guardian talkboard, now defunct, was pretty rancid. Things were so bad that newcomers were strongly advised to avoid giving out personal information that might have revealed their identities. A few posters who ignored this advice were subjected to attempts to stir up trouble with their employers, or were harassed in other ways.

      The victims were from the right wing and left wing, so perhaps the persecutors were acting out of apolitical spite, rather than from any political motive.

      • Lydia Robinson

        I’m familiar with that talkboard and the new version is no better – From what I’ve seen on there, anyone even mildly right of centre is subjected to horrific personal abuse and hounded off the site. It’s just a rancid little circle jerk. Lefties are never shy of breaking their own PC rules when someone expresses an opinion they don’t like.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          Fortunately, there were so many people posting on the talkboard in its heyday, and there were so many discussion threads, that it was possible to find some reasonable people to talk to. One just did one’s best to ignore the loonies.

          • Lydia Robinson

            As far as I know, the Guardian closed down the original one because someone was being harassed in real life and being smeared as a pedophile. The only reason for this was because he had some unpopular right wing views. This person threatened legal action so the Guardian decided to get rid of them all. The comments BTL here are pretty reasonable compared to any leftist cesspit one might find elsewhere.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            That’s more or less what I heard, although I was told that the Guardian made a payment of several thousand pounds (£15,000 or more) to the person concerned. It was said that the moderators were at fault for doing nothing about the harassment.

          • Lydia Robinson

            From what I know, the moderators allowed a gang to run that site – the same gang who’ve gravitated to the new one. They’re not much better on CiF – allowing all kinds of Jew baiting and abuse – and booting off anyone with the “wrong kind” of views.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            No surprises there. The old GUT crowd have just migrated.

  • Ben Kelly

    Mr. Parris, check the comments pages below articles not about Ukip on these sites and you will find the same thing. The comments pages on The Telegraph, The Times, Guido etc. are dominated by trolls and hostility, and have you ever read the comments pages on Youtube? Seriously, check on ANY video and behold the human misery. The same on comments about the “gamergate” stuff.

    The point is that this is something that goes far beyond the “cyber Kippers”, it is the reason I generally steer clear of comments pages. So despite your disclaimers you are just being disingenuous, you ARE equating Ukip with the Nazis here. Sadly, the comments below your Ukip articles are far from unique and the same bile can be found below millions of articles crossing millions of different subjects.

    • UKSteve

      Maybe have a read of flippit‘s view below? He seems to have hit the nail on the head with 363 people.

      Youtube? Are you serious? There are posters on there still learning to breathe and walk at he same time. You have taken a single theme here – Matthew Parris writing on UKIP – and opened it out wildly to include the entire internet! A less generous mind might accuse this of being….trolling!

      The vast majority of rabidly ultra-right loons posting in these forums do it at weekends (I’ve noticed) and they’re usually followers of Janet Daly and such; certainly not people with any understanding of anything outside America.

      You seem to have restricted your comments to the right of centre; I was on an appalling Lefty blog weeks ago (lesson learned, they delete everything they don’t agree with!), and because I said (paraphrase) that ‘I am proud of my country, and the contributions it has made to the world, despite some dark passages’, I was called a “flag waving bellend” by some ignorant, self-loathing cretin who completely distorted documented history to make his “point”.

      UKIP people and supporters are the most marginalised and victimised people in this country in terms of political understanding and coverage – and by far the most unfairly treated by the media. Mr. Parris poked a stick at a poisonous snake, when conventional wisdom, physically and metaphorically says ‘leave well alone’. He then expressed astonishment on this same organ, presumably for more lucre, that a nasty snake viciously bit him.

      As you refer to posts from UKIPers as “bile”, it explains why you seem to feel as offended as he does; it’s because you’ve probably never spoken to or engaged with any of them.

      • Ben Kelly

        My point, which you don’t seem to have grasped, is that trolling and bile ridden nasty comments are common on comments pages on all kinds of sites, not restricted to Ukip supporters who comment. How you managed to take offence from my comment DEFENDING Ukip supporters against his narrow criticism I really don’t know. The fact is this, there ARE people who are Ukip supporters who write stupid comments on pages, but so there are supporters from other parties who do so too, its not unique to this single group of people, which pretty much ruins the premise of his article.

        Your comment is ignorant, you have not read what I said properly, I know plenty of people who support Ukip.

        • UKSteve

          If you’d read my comment, which you clearly didn’t, I said:

          “The vast majority of rabidly ultra-right loons posting in these forums do it at weekends (I’ve noticed) and they’re usually (American) followers of Janet Daly and such; certainly not people with any understanding of anything outside America.”

          Can you explain how this is directed at you? Do you think the Universe swirls around you at the centre?

          My point was, ‘Yes, there are plenty of poisonous trolls on the internet’, but I tend to go places where they don’t gather, and I see they are infesting my favoured sites less these days. I made an aside at Lefties who make ridiculous statements about UKIP – does that include you?

          Your comment is foolish.

  • serialluncher

    Yes Ukip are simplistic populists in my view but the reference to Nazis is a bit unnecessary.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    “I dish it out and (unlike many of them) I can take it”.

    I am not sure that you can take it, Mr Parris. You are making far more fuss than other columnists who have been the target of robust comments. You let the Scottish Nationalists get under your skin, now it’s UKIP (again). Who will be next to outrage your delicate sensibilities?

  • travis scott

    – “The unabated influx of immigrants to (our country), has the effect of overwhelming (our) distinct cultural and religious identity and reducing (my people) to an insignificant minority in their own country, amounts to a policy of cultural genocide”

    Which “racist” said this? The Dalai Lama!

    Anti-whites do not call the Dalai Lama “racist” or “Tibetan supremacist” because of his views against Tibetan genocide.

    However, white people are when they express their opposition to white genocide.

    Anti-racist is code for anti-white!

  • Paddy Kilshamus

    The Nazi smear will eventually over time lose its stigma and then what will the destroyers use to silence dissent? Certainly not logic.

  • AJ

    Matthew, I hope you are reading this, because I don’t think you know much about Nazis or Nazism and where the ideology comes from. But just to enlighten you, it stems from Islam, its a fact that Adolph Hitler based his book Mein Kampf on the Koran and his study of Islam. Have you ever stopped to read about Islamic teachings, its vile treatment of women for example, they are second class citizens under Sharia law, and are the property of their menfolk all their lives, the fact that you can be stoned to death for being gay might interest you, or perhaps you are too naive to be aware of that one, or maybe the foul treatment and cruelty to animals and the production of Halal meat. Islam is fascism full stop, its not a religion of peace, far from it, its a political ideology very much akin to Nazism, with its own political, military and pseudo religious wings. In fact the Koran encourages its followers to kill anyone who is not Muslim or willing to convert or pay the tax for non believers known as Jizja. Islam and its followers are the real Nazis, not the poor oppressed, had enough of the establishment UKIP voter, who’s had his fill of mass immigration and massive taxes to pay for them, with National Debt in the trillions. The sooner people like you with a back ground in the Westminster bubble elite realise this, the better for all concerned and perhaps you’ll stop bashing UKIP supporters and let us vote for a government that cares about the future of the UK rather than a change of management that insists on following some bizarre social experiment called mass immigration.I firmly believe that people like you have had your day, move over the political landscape is changing

    • Paddy Kilshamus

      ‘its a fact that Adolph Hitler based his book Mein Kampf on the Koran and his study of Islam. ‘ Really? care to substantiate that claim? Or are you just using the link to vilify? Still smearing with the N word. It is such a brain dead manoeuvre used by every manipulator of the slightly more brain dead.

    • Johnny Rebel

      If you don’t understand that “Nazi” was a smear word made up by a Zionist enemy of Hitler’s, similar to SOZI for the Social Democrats (Marxist shills of the KPD-Communist party) Then you should keep you’re conspiracy theories to yourself. The NSDAP was not fascist. This filthy red columnist doesn’t understand that it was International Jewry that declared economic war on Germany in 33′ They used all their money and power to create lies and ferment hate against the NSDAP. Hitler hated Communism and so many leading Communists were Jews. 150,000 Jewish soldiers fought for Germany. Hitler did everything possible to to make peace happen but Zionists wanted war and kept their lobbying GB who in turn dragged the US into fighting the wrong enemy with the help of US Zionist money bags influencing politicians. Try googling Adolf Hitler:The Greatest story never told. It’s not NSDAP propaganda it simply uncovers the Zionist and Allied lies about Hitler and The German people. I had grandfather as NSDAP member since early 30’s joining a SA Division fighting Communists on the streets before NSDAP was “VOTED” into power. Once disbanded he joined The German Army and fought bravely for his Heimatland as did half a million “foreign” volunteers who joined the ranks of various Waffen SS Divisions from every country in Europe including Britain. There was no murderous goal against Jews. Stalin’s mass murderers were their enemy. Even Russians joined to try and save their Motherland from Red terror holding Russia Hostage.

      I agree with you Mass immigration today is the problem and would argue we are witnessing a “Cultural Genocide” and ethnic cleansing of the entire west. If you read the UN Charter on Genocide Moving millions of non-White immigrants into traditionally White countries over a period of years and Legally chasing down and forcing White areas to accept “diversity“. This is known as “Forced Assimilation“.

      A combination of mass immigration (of different groups of people) plus forced assimilation would qualify as genocide, as defined by Article II, part (C) of the United Nations Genocide Conventions:

      “Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part.”

      This red rat needs to take a look around and watch as the true Brits get harder and harder to find. as will Europeans, I believe Sweden is 1st in line to be completely Ethnically cleansed with Holland 2nd. At this rate in 50 years The west will be nothing but Islamic tribal factions constantly at war with each other with third worlders killing each other over what used to be our Homeland. There’s already some 85′ Sharia courts in England, It no secret mixing into British or any Western society is not their wish. They want our land and with the help of Socialists this the author of this article. They will have it. Unless Those not afraid of those labels and start defending our nations. Why is it Asia for Asians, Africa for Africans, but Europe for Everyone? Many of us will go down fighting and if we win we’ll deal harshly with the treasonous rats responsible for promoting this Genocide.

    • Schlomo Finkelstein

      I agree totally. Nazi’s are ISLAM. We want all Gentiles to take on this menace called ISLAM. It is a blight on this earth. there were never a Palestinian people. They came after we built Israel into the land of milk and honey. Now they want to steal it from us. G*D promised us, the Chosen Race ISRAEL. Know one shall have it but us, If you stand against ISRAEL you stand against G*D. Beware the world that stands against the chosen people. We refuse to be loaded into box cars by the 100’s of millions this time. Our blood is far to precious.

  • Ludo

    I shouldn’t let vermin goad me into voting for UKIP but there’s a lot of time until May. I was dead-set a UKIP voter until Cameron’s speech at the conference, but I’m persuadable.

    Five years of Miliband government and we’ll be ready to leave without negotiation. Seeing as Cameron is likely to get very little and spin it as returning freedoms, it probably doesn’t matter which we get as far as EU membership is concerned.

  • Rhys

    It isn’t the populist aspect of Ukipism that bothers some ‘impartial spectators’. It’s the tendency of its more credulous enthusiasts to exalt Ukip as a political panacea which is a bit disturbing.

    • Rallan

      So what? The unthinking tribalism of some Labour supporters is no less disturbing. Likewise the unquestioning arrogance of some Tory supporters, and the absolute certainty of some LibDems..

      What you really mean is, you feel threatened because some UKIP voters are simply not interested in the establishment arguments. Who’s fault is that?

      • Rhys

        How do you know what I “really mean” ? Why should I feel “threatened”? Is it your habit to seek a personal weakness or to discover a “fault” in the expression of any opinion which you happen not to share?

        • Rallan

          You find a certain behaviour “a bit disturbing” in a new group, but completely ignore the exact same behaviour in established groups, I questioned why. My conclusion was that you feel threatened by the new group. This is not unreasonable.

          • Rhys

            I made no comparison to other political parties. I referred only to Ukipism.

            If you’ve abandoned your critical judgment in your zeal for UKIP, the fact, if it is a fact, that lots of Labour and Conservative supporters make the same mistake, isn’t relevant to your state of mind.

          • Max07

            Surely the point is, Rhys, that many Labour and Conservative voters are no less unthinking. You can’t criticise some UKIP voters for seeing it as a political panacea without also recognising that a significant number of supporters of the main parties feel the same about the parties they support.

          • Rhys

            It’s true that unthinking people do dream of political panaceas. However, we should distinguish between socialist and conservative attitudes on this point.

            Conservatives have no disposition to believe in the perfectibility of man: they generally proceed on pragmatic assumptions. So conservatives reject political panaceas as a matter of principle.

            Socialists of the far left who still cling to the Marxist ‘analysis’, could be accused of believing in a panacea. But the modern Labour party has so many things in common with the Tories that chimerical ‘lefty’ solutions to political problems hardly exist in their lines of argument nowadays. Generally speaking, many Labour policies differ from their Tory equivalents only in the amount of money which is promised by each. Both sides gravitate toward egalitarian ideals and have legislated accordingly.

            I understand that UKIP is here to correct the mistakes and to avoid the follies by which so-called LIblabcon has misgoverned the country. A new beginning beckons, and a populist philosophy will successfully address a number of awkward questions which the old parties have failed to grapple with etc. In short: UKIP can effect a rapid and radical transformation of politics and society.

            My impression is that the ‘average’ Ukipper tends to believe something like this with a religious enthusiasm. They resent sceptical enquiry and have an almost millenarian militancy which is sometimes impervious to reasoned criticism. That’s why the word ‘panacea’ seems an apt label for their expectations.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    Long before the internet existed, politicians and newspaper columnists were bombarded with anonymous hate mail and other unwelcome material. Peter Simple, who wrote for the telegraph was sent a cylindrical package. He was advised by his secretary, a Frenchwoman, ‘Do not open it, it’s sheet’.

    Some hooligans went further. The bay window of Quintin Hogg’s house was permanently boarded up because the glass had been broken so many times that he could no longer insure it.

    The culprits were probably left wingers.

  • Jock McSporran

    Does ‘populism’ mean advocating policies that the electorate actually want? Oh we can’t have that – giving the electorate what they want simply isn’t done in a parliamentary democracy. That would be ‘populist’.

  • pobinr

    I’ve too have been a bit baffled by the story of the rise of Nazism. The Germans I’ve met have appeared to be human beings like any other: in no signal way a different breed from my own countrymen.
    Mr Parris who we’re told is highly educated. Yet not well educated enough to realise that a similar thing is now happening due to the EU.

    Hitler took over half of Europe in a matter of weeks by means of force to spread his form of totalitariansim. The EU has taken a slower route to spread its form of toalitariansim. An economic & political war. It’s taken decades but make no mistake. The EU now has massive power vested with unelected commisioners. MEP’s cannot shape legislation. They can only vote on what the commision put in front of them. The EU is dismantling the mechanisms of nationstate democracy.
    The EU is malignant. It gobbles small countries up. Only EUrophiliacs get the top jobs. It grows like a tumour. It cannot be reformed anymore than the Soviet Union could. It needs breaking up like the Soviet union before it destroys democracy in Europe.
    It’s already destroyed Greece’s democracy & economy.
    Greece is now run by EUropuppets with a cheque book of bailouts. As in ‘Do what we say or get no further bailouts’
    Lord Rothschild said – ‘Give me control of a nation’s money supply & I care not who makes the laws’.
    Europe is now controlled more & more by the EU banksters, big business & big bureaucrats. Democracy is being snuffed out

  • Dave

    Does Matthew Parris actually understand the nazis were the German socialist party, you know, Labour

    • Hello_Old_Sausage

      The fact that the word Nazi was an English abbreviation for the National Socialist German Workers Party Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterparte has been conveniently erased from history

  • English_Woman

    I think you’ll find the left wing much nastier, even violent.

  • Ricayboy

    The more they heap scorn on UKIP and its supporters the more determined I am to support that party.

    • Ludo

      Me too. I’ve been UKIP for two years until Cameron’s speech, when I thought maybe I’ll likely vote for him. But if I find Parris to be anything like representative of Tory scum MPs, I’ll will be very happy to vote for UKIP, despite living in a Tory/Labour marginal.

      Labour will put a bigger nail in the coffin of the British economy and Englishness than would the Tories, but it’s much-of-muchness.

      I expect we need to fathom the true nadir of socialism before we can bring about emancipation.

  • DaHitman

    Matthew the Nazis were Socialists just like your friends in the EU and the Lib-Lab-con clique

  • pp22pp

    The mass psychosis is called PC. I read this self-regarding sanctimonious twaddle and wonder why I ever voted Tory. Parris, you are a fool. When we are Islamic, you gay-friendly wonderland will be right royally screwed. And yes it is happening!

    Your conviction that you are morally superior is repugnant and likening those who disagree with you to Nazis says more about you than it does about your opponents. Your nose is so firmly stuck in the air that you cannot see what is in front of you. The world that you think is so marvelous may be a lovely play ground for a well heeled homo like yourself, but take a trip down the average high street and open your eyes. Britain is now a dirty, dystopic, multicultural hell-hole and it happened on your watch.

    And what did happen to all those missing police files on the crimes commited by our betters in Parliament?

    • Ordinaryman

      Yes, what did happen to them and why has the matter gone quiet?

  • Spectre

    I had thought to write a reply to some of the points Matthew raised but then thought ‘why bother?’ There’s no reaching people like Matthew: they’re totally impervious to reason. He’s careful to distinguish between certain types of UKIP supporters, but he invariably depicts all Kippers as mentally defective in some way: they’re mad; stupid; paranoid; etc.

    For Matthew’s benefit, the appeal of UKIP explained:

    The three established parties are Liberal: Labour and the Lib Dems are Modern Liberals and the Tories are Classical Liberals. I think Liberalism is incapable of addressing the nation’s problems; indeed, it is the cause of some of them. I like UKIP because they’re One-Nation Conservatives. They’re filling an obvious gap in the market. It’s not hard to understand.

    • Hello_Old_Sausage

      Tho “modernised” tory party isn’t classical liberal at all. Gladstone would be appalled by our current political class.

      The British political class ALL fall under the same ideology, progressive socialism. They all seem to be heavily influenced by Fabian philosophy

  • Hello_Old_Sausage

    First they called me a racist

    Then they called me a fascist

    Then they called me swivel eyed

    Then they called me a loon

    And then Matthew Parris told me I am mentally ill

    Donchya just love “liberals”

    • Ordinaryman

      Take satisfaction from the fact that name-calling is a substitute for the lack of an intellectual viewpoint.

  • Patricia

    “… It’s these voters’ opinions about their fellow countrymen, about foreigners, about immigrants, about Muslims, about MPs (all MPs), about the rich, about London, about culture, about business people, and about anyone of a liberal disposition, that have offered me the dismaying glimpse I describe. It’s a dark, bilious and resentful world down there among the readers’ posts.”

    No Matthew it’s about people whose voices are never heard when they voice concern about our burgeoning population, overloaded infrastructure and way of life that is rapidly disappearing and according to your snivelling article, anyone who disagrees is called psychotic and bordering on Nazism.

    “But I have begun to understand the mass psychosis we call populism and, rather late in my life, almost to despair.”

    Just listen to yourself – who has the psychosis ?

  • Conway

    The Germans I’ve met have appeared to be human beings like any other: in no signal way a different breed from my own countrymen.” Funny, the Germans I have met have shown themselves lacking in any sort of feeling of responsibility for the less privileged, have had a strict adherence to rules regardless of context and generally like being organised and ordered around. That’s very different from most of my fellow countrymen (I’m English). Perhaps we’ve just met different Germans. Or perhaps your “own countrymen” are not traditional bolshy English people with a well developed sense of fair play.

  • mandelson

    The Spectator should ask for its money back from M Parris after this tripe.

  • pobinr

    The growing remoteness of our politcal class & the exports of Westminster’s powers to unelected, unknown bureaucrats & polticians in Brussels has changed everything. The old divide between left, right & centre is now redundant.
    It’s UKIP against the rest.
    UKIP is the force against the dismantling of representative government, a revolt of the people against the political class.

    • David In Rome

      “a revolt of the people against the political class. It’s UKIP against the rest”

      Again that presumption to represent the people, as in “the People’s Army” – a particularly obnoxious piece of hyperbole, the same as that used by the fundamentalist Christians in the USA that used to term themselves the Moral Majority.

      Remember that In the so called “Earthquake Elections”, Ukip was rejected by 91% of the electorate despite Farage spending MILLIONS on getting re-elected to the trough.

      Ukip is a nasty little minority party led by the biggest hypocrite in British politics.

      • pobinr

        Unlike the EU which is led by saints >
        Why do they not bother you ?

      • Bill_der_Berg

        That’s a very cheeky claim by UKIP. David Cameron has informed us that his party is the only one that speaks for Britain (even though the Tories were rejected by a majority of the electorate, as were all the other parties).

        • David In Rome

          “David Cameron has informed us that his party is the only one that speaks for Britain”

          No he hasn’t.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            Checking my sources, I see that he came out with the obnoxious hyperbole in 2007.

          • David In Rome

            Perhaps you would provide a link to these sources.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            On May 4th 2007 the Daily Express reported that –

            “The Tories claimed “stunning” successes in South Ribble and East Yorkshire and won council seats across the North.

            They are now “the one national party speaking up for Britain”, said Mr Cameron”.

            As far as I know, the remark passed unnoticed. There were, and are, far more important things to worry about than such remarks by politicians.

          • David In Rome

            Thank you Bill. You were right.

            However it was a very long time ago and a reasonable claim in the context of Brown as PM.

          • BLdeQ

            Claims about council by elections? My hero has no such feet of clay, I trust, something to do with intellectual contempt for the LDs I expect.

          • Bill_der_Berg

            It is a bit stale. Obnoxious hyperboles are at their best when newly minted.

  • shebamurphy

    You’re good with words, Matthew; an artist one might say. I have admired your writings in the past – even recommended them to others. Sadly, those days are gone. I now see the person for what he truly is. So, I can no longer enjoy his writings or recommend them to others. You, Matthew, are a nasty, jumped up little snob.

  • David In Rome

    Well said Matthew, though I WOULD have gone further.

    I too used to wonder if the UK was capable of responding to the seduction of the extremists that Germany fell for in the 30s, more specifically if we could furnish the concentration camp guards. Blogging has told me we could.

    • pobinr

      The EU is an economic dictatorship.
      During WWII the Nazis installed a puppet prime minister in Greece.
      Now 70 years on Greece has another puppet prime minister Samaras courtesy of the EU velvet Nazis who now control Greece via its money supply.
      ‘Do as we say or get no more bailouts’.
      And this is going on all around Europe!

    • Ordinaryman

      You obviously have a point to make, so please make it, but this time apply some intellectual rigour to your thought processes. The question you should be addressing is: why are so many people “responding to the seduction of the (so called) extremists”? To do this, first of all identify which “extremists” you are talking about. Then, explain why you believe they are “extremists”. By doing this you will get people to listen to you, even if they don’t agree with what you have to say.

  • PaderB

    If anyone should want to know about extremism, they should do a search on ‘Democracy in a Federalized Europe’. It is a compilation of EU and other official documents (mostly with references). The Conservatives, in their panic are busily backtracking to try and regain some of the popular vote. But they are too late and the Labour Party are not even trying to get us out of a particularly pernicious EU that seem so much more like the Nazi Party but are, in fact, closer in make up to the Soviet era Politburo. They follow exactly the Kremlin pattern. The publication illustrates, among other things, the surreptitious laws that have been enacted without any publicity that have to do with the subjugation of the peoples of the EU in a lethal manner. The EU Commission are extremely dangerous people.

    • Hello_Old_Sausage

      “The EU Commission are extremely dangerous people.”

      Agreed 100%

      In another few years, we’ll get arrested for saying so

    • Ordinaryman

      You are perfectly correct. I have been increasingly concerned about the developments in the EU, and in particular the way this country is becoming subservient to unelected, face-less bureaucrats in Brussels. I have no faith in any of our political parties reversing the trend, so, what can we effectively do about it, before it too late?

  • Bill_der_Berg

    Daniel Hannan has noticed a glaring inconsistency in Matthew Parris’s opinions.

    “For years, Matthew had mockingly urged Eurosceptic MPs to join UKIP. If they had a shred of honour, he argued, if they were not such cowards about risking their seats, they would jump.

    Two weeks ago, one MP took him at his word. But far from being pleased, Matthew began to rave, accusing Douglas Carswell – “a stupid person’s thinking man” – of an act of calculated betrayal”,.

  • SchtenGraby

    I don’t like extremists of any kind, be they IS or UKIP. Both have the whiff of the mob about them.

    • Paddy Kilshamus

      I couldn’t help but think of Winston Churchill when I read your description. But on another note would that same description not apply to Cromwell and Martin Luther or Menachim Begin or Trotsky and many other disgruntled extremists who shaped History?

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Have you had much experience of IS extremists?

    • Ordinaryman

      This is democracy. People have a perfect right to express their views as passionately as they wish. To revert to name-calling and insults is intellectually shortsighted. You may not have realised it, but you have ranted in your comments in the same manner that your decry in those “little people” you obviously dislike.

    • pp22pp

      Wow, it’s an honour read the writings of someone like you. I can understand your contempt for the little people. There are no words to express my admiration. You started a billion dollar company from scratch and won a Nobel Prize in physics at the same time. To do all that and still find the time two write in the comments section here! You are force of nature!

      Also, while you were fighting with the Muslim moderates in Syria, I can imagine that you got a real insight into their mindset and can see how you might see a similarity between ISIS and the little people who vote UKIP.

      P.S. Sad that the world isn’t as you think it is! Sad that you are not what you think you are.

  • Mc

    The reasons readers have a go at Parris are that he writes third rate articles and he’s a b****y old woman.

  • pobinr

    How much more overburdoned does our NHS & infra structure have to get
    How much lower do salaries have to be driven by cheap imported labour
    How much worse does the housing shortage have to get
    How much worse does traffic congestion have to get
    Before those with their heads in the sand realise that we need more people in these over crowded tiny islands like a man on fire needs petrol ?
    They’ll keep coming here until we’re as poor as them.
    We are overuled & overrun.
    We want ot live once again in a self governed country which is wehat I thought we fought Nazism for!
    Vote UKIP

    Ooops sorry for what I said above. It means I’m a Nazi according to Parris

    • Ordinaryman

      It doesn’t matter if you feel insulted. Haven’t you realised? You don’t count!

  • pobinr

    According to Parris this man is comparable to a Nazi !
    Some words from a Southampton Resident on the UKIP leaflet;
    ‘My Name is Albert Griffiths and I was born in 1924 in London.
    My father was injured in the first world war and had to have both legs amputated.
    He could not provide for all six children on his small pension, so I was adoptedby a family and moved to live with them in Romford, Essex when I was nine.
    At age 14 I was sent to a training farm where learned about looking after animals and crops.
    I also joined the Dagenham Sea Cadets. We were issued with old carbine rifles that had been used in the American Civil war!
    In 1942 I signed up for the Royal Navy as a trainee radio operator. I was assigned to HMS London and sailed on Arctic Convoy PQ20, taking essential supplies to northern Russia.
    The weather conditions were quite bad. I was later posted on the Wild Goose, which sank more German U boats than any other vessel.
    I took part in the Normandy landings, and that was a traumatic experience.
    I left the Navy in 1946, but continued to work in radio for many years.
    I support UKIP because I am fed up of the people’s voice not being heard and even now, in my senior years will strive for an independant self-governed country.’

  • Trofim

    Mr Parris should, on principle, be satisfied with living in one house in a densely populated small country which in 2008 became the most crowded country in the most crowded continent. I’m sure he can afford to give one of his houses away to the homeless.

  • pobinr

    EU = More & more centralised control & a desire to impose political union on the people of Europe without their consent

    How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe;

    The unelected crooks & recycled Communists running the EU

    Nigel Farage of UKIP Confronts the EU Commissioners

    We’re now run by Big Banks, Big Business & Big Bureaucrats

    EU new Soviet Union ?

    Remote control by the EU

    Creeping EU totalitarianism>

    The Nazi-Fascist Origins of the EU Superstate >

  • Antonia Willis

    What a faux-naif argument. I don’t believe for a second that Matthew Parris has never come across the “strange and disturbing” world of readers’ on line comments in the Guardian, the Mirror or the New Statesman – it’s all much of a muchness out there, and often unpleasant, as Matthew Parris must know.

    As a UKIP activist, I have often enjoyed Matthew Parris’s articles and regarded him as a genial and intelligent guide through his own opinions, even if I have not shared them. But the sheer bile and bias he has shown in his pieces on Clacton, followed by his comments that the proletariat should follow government elites rather than vice-versa, followed by this ghastly attempt to smeer UKIP voters with the taint of Naziism, has given many of us the strong impression that a once-genial man has become an unpleasant and unbalanced man. Enough, please.

  • Kugelschreiber

    One might compare the Germans of the 30s ( Nazis) to the angry Moslem countries of today in that both felt their own countries to be viciously and excessively ATTACKED by other nations, eg, the brutal war reparations demanded of the Germans after WW1, themore recent bombing of Iraq (just one of many reasons for the resentment of the Nazis/Moslems)

    And the result being perhaps that when a nation (Germany/Moslem nations) are attacked by other countries in such a way, then their natural INSTINCT in response is to gain POWER over those other nations who have so brutally attacked and ruined them.

    A desire for POWER over them, not only because they wanted to STOP them attacking Germany/Moslem countries, but also because they were very ANGRY with them

    To gain POWER over them for example by taking over as many parts of the World as they are able, by threatening to enforce their OWN doctrine upon other parts of the world outside their traditional sphere of influence

    A POWER complex that only GREW because the subject was ATTACKED

    For some peculiar reason, our LibLabCon govts have chosen to SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTACK Muslim countries WHILE importing 1000s of Muslims into Britain.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      “… the brutal war reparations demanded of the Germans after WW1….”
      Don’t forget that the conditions imposed by the Germans on the defeated Russians were pretty brutal, too.

  • cremaster

    A (couple of days) late and a dollar short. But I’d like to point out that the raging gay marriage debate here has NOTHING to do with the subject at hand.

    I really wish people would learn not to feed Matthew’s trolls.

  • Innit Bruv

    ” a dark,bilious and resentful world down there….”
    Look no further than the readers’ comments below,Matthew……..

    • pp22pp

      Yes, I am angry. One of the most successful societies in human history has been trashed. We are broke, we export nothing but “financial services” and second-rate pop music and our beautiful country is being paved over to house a tidal wave of newcomers from failed societies bringing with them attitudes and practices that Mr Parris would abhor if practiced by a white man.

      He is the true Nazi. Rotherham showed what he and his ilk think of the 99% of us who do not belong to the liberal HOMINTERN. Where are the 167 files detailing the abuses by Westminster MP’s. Lost? I don’t think so.

      • Innit Bruv

        You need to get out more…

  • Banjo

    Actually, there was quite a robust fascist movement in England, as it was then called, during the ‘Thirties. They wore black shirts and had support in the big houses. Quite a good novel and film, Remains of the Day, were based on it. That said, the author of this article sounds like one of the Pajama Boys across the Atlantic.

  • Kugelschreiber

    As my comment of an hour or so hasn’t been shown, I was hoping that YOU could TELL me what to say , so that I could say it right like you want me to,, and then you could show what I’d said.

  • Lawrence in Arabia

    Matthew, perhaps what you complain of is simply a reaction to your sort incessantly shouting words such as ‘racist’ in an attempt to close down reasoned debate.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    In some ways, the Nazis would have been more acceptable than UKippers to Matthew Parris. They wore smart uniforms, not shell suits. They were not opposed to allowing foreign workers into Germany, in fact they insisted that they come. And nobody could have complained that the Nazis were going nowhere. They went all over Europe and the Middle East.

    • foxoles

      Lol – many a true word spoken in jest!

      • Bill_der_Berg

        I forgot to mention that the Nazis were all for a united Europe.

  • William_Brown

    Yet another ‘angle’ to try to discredit millions of UK citizens by accusing them of being Nazi’s.

    If only you would recognise who the real fascists are and which organisations facilitate their aims in this country and abroad.

    For the record, I do not believe for one moment that UKIP are either capable of recognising what really needs to be done in Britain, let alone deliver it in government. They are the same. They will deliver more of the same. They are not the revolutionaries many hoped they would be.

  • Ah, UKIP’s finest recruiting sergeant opens his mouth again. Keep
    spouting off, Parris. Farage’s stock jumps every time you do!

  • foxoles

    ‘”I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left’. (M. Thatcher)

  • Peter Scout

    If you really don’t think that neo-nazi’s are on the rise in the UK, I suggest you have a look at Britain First – or better still Exposing Britain First on FB and Twitter – to see comments about Kristallnacht, Zyclon B, mass extermination, mass sterilisation, medical experiments, torture and misinformation all directed towards hatred of Muslims. Britain First are making the best use of social media to spread their message of hate and people ARE frightened. Check out Tell MAMA UK for detailed information about the increasing attacks on Muslims and look our for the hashtag boybottmuslimbusinesses. They have links with UKIP but are even more chilling

  • Dazed & Confused

    Oh for Gods sake you’re pathetic Parris…..Ever thought about joining the UAF, or are you already involved as a “covert” member?

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Post erased because it was addressed to the wrong person.

  • Malcolm Clark

    Have any of the people commenting here actually read Matthew P’s article? He was expressly saying that no one in UKIP is remotely close to fascism…he’s commenting on an irrational populist mood. You guys are proving his point rather.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Private Eye used to publish joke ‘readers letters’ beginning, ‘Dear Sir, I am no racist but…….”. Matthew Parris’s denials should be taken in the same spirit.

  • AnthonySGThompson

    Dear Matthew,

    Can I introduce you to Darren and Chrissie? They are the UKIP councillors from Walsall I found myself sitting next to at a UKIP dinner in Doncaster. They talked and talked about the difficulties people in their wards were faced with and how little the councillors of other parties cared about these things. “Sometimes” – cue Black Country accent – “there’s nothing you can do to help but you can still go back and tell them what’s happening. We do, don’t we love, but no-one else does”.

    Since joining UKIP two and a half years ago I have met literally hundreds of Darrens and Chrissies. What strikes me again and again is their simple earnestness. These are really good people. They have a deep, unassuming love for their community and their country. Yes, I would not invite them to dinner with my Oxbridge friends but I am so glad to live in a country where such people can thrive.

    It is true, there is antagonism towards gross immigration of over 500,000 a year but I have never come across a scintilla of antagonism towards immigrants. (Curiously a lot of UKIP supporters – including myself – are married to immigrants; I think that being married to an immigrant acts as a protection against accusations of ‘racism’ that others are exposed to). UKIP is a classless and ‘wing’-less party; its glue is an intense attachment to ‘government by the people’. It is much further away in thought and action from Nazism than any of the other political parties.

    By limiting your research on UKIP to comment threads you announce to the world that you are interested only in feeding your prejudices. When you describe Ukippers, you describe what is in your imagination. If you are to write about UKIP you should speak to those people you saw canvassing in Derby, not walk by on the other side.

  • jaz

    Of course Parris over-eggs his case, he is a polemicist, but his three-point analysis of the kind of commentators on so many of these sites is spot on. Introduce facts into an argument and you will be flamed or ultimately, as in Breitbart’s case, banned. These are not sites that place a high value on freedom of speech.

  • Peter_Mac

    Yes Matthew, all of what you say above is true. There do exist many people whose views are somewhat shocking and unpleasant and it can be a bit disconcerting reading their posts.

    But you fail to recognise that on the opposite side are those, such as yourself, who are unwittingly as bad. I had always enjoyed your writing, agreed with the great majority of what you said, and thought you were pretty much an all round OK guy.

    Until you showed another side. Your dismissal and obvious loathing of those who take a different viewpoint to your own was fairly shocking. We all have disagreements, we all find things about our political enemies which drive us mad. But what came across from you was of a different order altogether. You genuinely believe yourself to be a superior person, and you believe your superior intellect and modern opinions are the only ones to be taken seriously. The middle and working classes, those with old fashioned opinions, you see as beneath contempt and should be ignored completely. It’s not even their ideas you have the problem with, it’s the type of people who hold these ideas and it’s these people you hate, more than their politics.

    This is the behaviour and attitude of fascists and the ultra left-wing intelligentsia . What has surprised me is how for many years I was taken in by you. I never suspected you held those opinions and I’m repulsed to discover the reality behind the mask. I never believed the Tory party was the “nasty” party. Never. However now, I’m not so sure. Your views are genuinely nasty and if they are typical of the Tory senior members, then I want nothing to do with this party and will be voting appropriately.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    If Matthew Parris thinks that it was big mistake to give the vote to the plebs who he so obviously despises, he should come right out and say so instead of hiding behind weasel words.

    (Not that I am suggesting, even remotely, that he does hold such views).

  • English Aborigine

    UKIP supporters will have noticed parris’s remarkable transformation

    Into being a student of Goebbelsian Newspeak

    A Picture of Dorian Grey and all that

  • TheDragonDoji

    I came here hoping to read some hateful, bile-filled comments from the angry racists of the UKIP world (yes; talk to ANY Ukip supporter for more than 10 minutes, they are). Instead it turns out to be a lip trembling non-apology with some poor quality attempt at reverse psychology in comparing but ‘not’ comparing UKIP supporters to Nazis.
    Wow. What an excellent example of how to completely remove all substance from any political comment you could ever make.

    • Chingford Man

      Better try “Hope Not Hate” then.

      • red2black

        Bob was a wonderful entertainer. (tee hee)

  • lojolondon

    1. Stop pretending – the Nazis were and still are National Socialists – left wing, not right wing.
    2. Stop pretending – UKIP is all about our democracy. It is about electing accountable representatives in Westminster, who do represent their constituents and represent the majority opinion in their area, UKIP is NOT about immigration.
    3. For ‘pretending’, read ‘lying’, because you should know better and I have no doubt that, like the rest of the MSM, you do know better.

    • red2black

      If you had accused the NSDAP of being ‘left wing’, most likely they would have killed you. ‘Left wing’, at least then, meant ‘Communist’ or ‘Red’ – the thing they were most afraid of – ‘Jewish Bolshevism’.

      • lojolondon

        Likely you weren’t born when the Nazis came to power, so not sure how you know that ‘most likely they would have killed you’. National Socialists, nationalising every industry in Germany, and micro-managing every aspect of life, from childbirth, manufacturing, agriculture and the arts, through to euthanasia – they certainly were left wing, no matter what who says!

        • red2black

          Much of the Nazi economy was re-privatised during the mid-1930s and later. The purpose of concentration camps in the early days was partly to ‘persuade’ Communists and others to abandon their ‘class snobbery’. Race and nation were of prime importance to National Socialists, whereas social class and ‘a dictatorship of the proletariat’ were the chief concerns of the Communists. Read about what happened to people like Gustav Landauer, Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, and many other people from the Left (as defined at the time) at the hands of the Nazis.

  • Stout Yeoman

    This is indeed a very nasty article. I am shocked by Parris and shocked by the Spectator publishing this. Is Parris comforting himself with the thought that support for UKIP is some kind of mental illness or is he trying to discredit UKIP by insinuating that its voters we are akin to Nazis? So political discourse and commentary is reduced to manufactured insult and straw man arguments. To want to control our borders is mental illness? To want to stop the hollowing out of democracy that is the EU is mental illness? And those of us who do hold such views are int he grip of sort of national socialist movement? Each adult who chooses to support UKIP makes a legitimate democratic choice. Imagining them as some Nazi horde or mentally ill group is to treat the electorate with contempt. I do not want to see Parris in the Spectator again. I expect higher editorial standards.

    • Lydia Robinson

      “I am shocked by Parris and shocked by the Spectator publishing this.”

      The Speccie is one of the few free speech organs left in our society. If you are so shocked, please feel free to join the Guardian’s “Comment is Free” – aka – “Komment Ist Nicht Frei” – to experience free speech curtailed by politically correct Kommisars.

      • Stout Yeoman

        Actually, Parris first put these very same views in the Guardian. The Spectator is not a free speech organ because it copies the Guardian or includes nasty straw man arguments. Nor is free speech the complete absence of editorial policy or taste.

  • disqus_pXtmm5boND

    Diane Abbot used this article in support of continued unlimited immigration and was supported by Michael Portillo on BBC1’s ‘This Week’. It was a real scream at the telly moment. When will these people listen? The country is facing an existential crisis and they all just shut your eyes and block out anything you don’t want to here. We’re on the brink

  • darwins beard

    From the man who handed Clacton to UKIP on a platter

  • Bill_der_Berg

    Matthew Parris regards Clacton as a bit naff and far prefers Canary Wharf, an area where there are a large number of ‘massage parlours’, or so I’m told. It may be that these ‘parlours’ are operated discreetly and are tastefully decorated, but surely they are for more seedy than any tattooing premises. Perhaps their nearness to great wealth makes them respectable in Mattew Parris’s eyes.

  • Chingford Man

    UKIP now at 24pc in the latest opinion poll. Keep up the good work, Agent Parris.

  • Robert Andersen

    Dear Mathew,
    Do you write Nick Cleggs speeches?
    I only ask because you both speak in platitudes and sound very ‘preachy’ about things. I genuinely didn’t think 2 people could be such sanctimonious twats so soon after Blair. Ah well.

  • mailbiter

    Why is UKIP purple?

    At heart, UKIP is a single-issue pressure group. Get us out of the EU (also, the party has managed to stoke the fires of anti-immigration as part of the same issue). That is fine for those that gravitate to that issue – and, of course, a single issue can stretch across the political divide. But a programme for government cannot.

    We are seeing the biggest division of Left and Right since the ’80s. But, in order to stand any chance of gaining power, UKIP must somehow appeal to both Left and Right voters through its policies. This is immiscible and cannot be done, so UKIP has developed a somewhat bipolar personality when addressing policy decisions For example:

    Farage says he does not want to privatise the NHS: Nuttall says he does.
    Farage wants to screen immigrants (not migrants, you will note) for HIV: Carswell does not.
    Farage says he will cancel HS2: the unfortunately-named Reckless disagrees.

    This is a serious condition, and it is caused because UKIP has no political philosophy; no one can think of an issue and identify how UKIP would handle it – save for the same old EU/immigration issue.

    Why did UKIP pick purple? Because it is attempting to mix blue and red. That may be messy, it may require a lot of cleaning-up afterwards. But, in terms of gaining real power, it makes UKIP ultimately unelectable.

  • Matthew, you’re a supercilious twat. You can add that to the collection. This is disingenuous, cowardly rubbish. It ignores the context of the Gramsci-ite campaign of destabilisation and turning common sense on it’s head that the left has been fighting for the best part of a century and with which the leadership of the Tory party, with pretty much the sole exception of Thatcher, has conspired with and appeased. The latest examples might be the faux outrage over imposing travel bans on the Ebola infected countries of West Africa (racist, although much of the rest of Sub-Saharan Africa has done it), English votes for English laws (not an obvious corollary of Scottish devolution, but a stitch up) and charging British ISIS volunteers with Treason… read the Guardian’s pieces on any of these.

    We have been stitched up and lied to for years by a left that set out to destroy the core institutions of our culture and has largely succeeded. It’s no suprise that people are angry, very angry, and don’t be too shocked if they occasionally give vent to that anger. But the difference between us and the German of the 20s and 30s is that we have the example of the Nazis. That is undoubtedly why the National Front and the BNP never attracted mass support even in the darkest days of the Blair and Wilson/Callaghan administrations. UKIP (and to an extent, the SNP) are harnessing the anger and disaffection and mounting a critique of the culture you would rather smear with Nazi associations than address head on. Shame on you

  • ukfred

    I have also read some of Matthew Parris’ columns on UKIP and the Tory right. I can only conclude that if Matthew Parris is the future of the Conservative party, then that future is only for a small number of the metrosexual elite and not for most people. Enjoy your decline, Matthew.

  • Athelstan

    “If you set out with sufficient determination from the founding premise that we’re all magically equal, and anyone who argues otherwise must be part of the [nazi/racist] conspiracy, then there is almost no counter-argument, no fact, that cannot be navigated round. ”

    Fixed that for you.

  • Rudi774

    “I retain a faith in the essential decency of most of my countrymen — and, more important, their ingrained restraint and sense of proportion.”

    Whoehaha! Try reading The Guardian or watching Question Time.

    About that Rotherham scandal: 1400 girls were abused, the fathers were arrested and a detective was sent to sensitivity training. Take it from an evil Tschermann: I cannot think of any post-WW II regime in Europe that was that cruel to some of it’s own subjects as New Labour. But at least they weren’t Nazi’s!

    Love the Wikipedia page of this Homocon: “He owns homes in Spain, Derbyshire, and the Docklands of east London.” Not the stuff a populist right base is built on.

  • Major Plonquer

    Sir, you are just so, so, so out of touch with what’s happening in this country. Perhaps it’s time to find another job?

  • Meggg

    You might want to watch out Parris…They’re handing out tougher sentences for Trolls!

    • Joe Long

      Shouldn’t allowances be made for raddled old trolls, well past their sell by date, in desperate search of attention?

  • Dave Collier

    Matthew I think to get an idea of how it might have been in Nazi-German times it’s worth reading ‘Not I’ by Joachim Fest. (Maybe you have, but in any case . . .) Fest’s family were firmly anti-Nazi and had an idea of what was happening, but as Fest says, when you have a country run by thugs and criminals it is extremely difficult to do anything about that at the time.
    As he and others have also pointed out, Germany in the 1930s had suffered the collapse of the middle classes, leading people to latch on to what seemed like a magic solution – someone who promised everything and, for a time appeared to be delivering everything too.
    While I agree with you that UKIP are not Nazis (and certainly agree about the bizarre and maniacal vitriol poured out by many of UKIP’s supporters on comments boards online), there is the similarity in the magic solution (as opposed to the Final Solution, though some might not see much difference I suspect).

  • yoyoegg

    I see not a glimmer of the dawn of fascism in modern Britain

    Really? Come up to Scotland, you’ll find the SNP are national socialist to their core

  • Scradje

    ‘So let me say it again: I see not a glimmer of the dawn of fascism in modern Britain’.
    A rather surprising comment, given that there is unfortunately no shortage of muslim extremists in ‘modern Britain’.

    • Simon_in_London

      Parris types tend to not to count non-Europeans as capable of moral agency, and even white Muslim converts become ‘the other’ and thus immune to judgement. So Islamic extremism never counts in their worldview.

      • Bill_der_Berg


  • Fergus Pickering

    You are daily becoming more snobbish, egotistical and overbearing, Matthew. Is it age?

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      It’s more the baityness of his writing, the clickyness of the easily offended and the general click-baity joy of the headlines he generates.

      In short, follow the money.

      • Fergus Pickering

        But the poor fellow sounded quite hurt. I think he wants to be loved you know.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          I believe that he is no longer on speaking terms with Scotland because of ‘things that were said’ by the ‘Yes’ campaigners during the referendum campaign.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Curious really. I’ve always thought of Scotland as the gay capital of the world.Something to do with the kits perhaps, or perhaps it’s just Edinburgh.

          • EricHobsbawmtwit

            It’s pretty much just the Scottish rugby team these days.

          • Fergus Pickering

            Heavens, how awful. Shades of Mike Campbell-Lamerton and Jim Telfer.

  • Bill_der_Berg

    I have been trying to work out what it is about the people of Clacton that makes Matthew Parris look forward to their extinction. A fondness for tattoos, Ken Dodd and meat pies retailing at £1.50 is not in itself a grave sin. Voting UKIP is a more serious offence, but even so.

    Perhaps they just have no place in world made safe for Matthew Parris and his fellow thinkers. Whatever the explanation, I offer for Mr Parris’s attention the solution proposed by the great Liberal reformer Lord Beveridge.

    “….those men who through general defects are unable to fill such a whole place in industry are to be recognized as unemployable. They must become the acknowledged dependents of the State… but with complete and permanent loss of all citizen rights – including not only the franchise but civil freedom and fatherhood”.

  • Davey

    It is because the British are ‘essentially decent’ and are ‘restrained’ with a ‘sense of proportion’ that we have allowed ourselves to be swamped and our own culture put on the endangered list! Why are journalists like this bloke so surprised that finally people have had quite enough of it?
    Trouble is, people like him never get out into the real world – sounds like he spends all of his online. He should go into the workplaces and the homes of British people and he’d sure find out how disgruntled we all are.
    My 80 year-old mum, who’s lived here and paid her dues all her life has just seen her favourite shoe shop closing up and being replaced with a Polish grocery store, of all things. She wants to buy shoes Mr Parris, not jars of pickled cabbage! Shame on you!

  • EnosBurrows

    It is almost as if Matthew Parris had paid the commentators here to prove his point for him!

    • Davey

      I’m quite sure Mr Parris receives comments like these wherever he has the temerity to air his prissy views.Coincidence? I think not Perhaps he should begin to understand that a huge number of people disagree with him.

  • EricHobsbawmtwit

    The paranoia is true. The words of Hitler to Sir Neville Henderson (British Ambassador to Germany) that the English were “determined to destroy and exterminate Germany” is precisely the kind of rhetoric I read in comments from kippers with respect to the EU and our politicians.

    But let’s look at the facts of the matter here: They are determined to change our society in various ways and are largely doing so without consent. And that in my view is the root of the problem.

    So Parris is as usual half right, but the half he’s wrong is much more important.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      “…the English were “determined to destroy and exterminate Germany” is precisely the kind of rhetoric I read in comments from kippers with respect to the EU and our politicians…”

      I shall take that with a pinch of salt.

      • EricHobsbawmtwit

        I often read such things about our government and the EU’s desire to “destroy the British people” in UKIP comments, especially at the DT. It’s meat and potatoes to the average kipper.

        • Bill_der_Berg

          Such behaviour is not at all typical. In my experience, UKippers are wise, reasonable and broad-minded people.

  • Fenman

    Mr Parris, what your last few articles proved beyond doubt is that you are a fully paid up member of the politically correct liberal metro establishment, in total denial as to the justified worries of the indigenous people of the UK.
    On a recent month’s visit to London and the East of England, as far North as York, the most common comments I heard from all sections of society, from gentlemen’s clubs to public bar , across the social spectrum were;
    1. The sheer number of immigrants is more than our infrastructure and culture can absorb, and as a result schools and surgeries are over-loaded in many areas.
    2. A large percentage refuse to integrate but try and impose their values, which are often particularly among Muslims incompatible with our core values, and create ghettoes.
    3. The amount of semi and unskilled workers coming in has kept down wages.
    Most people were not against immigration per se,but felt it was out of control, and this covered both those who were pro-EU and skeptics. What they all I spoke of from labourer to millionaire was a deep disillusion with an out of touch liberal establishment in politics, the judiciary and the media, which you clearly epitomise.

  • Craig Yates

    The author of this piece has gone further than most others in mentioning the Nazis possibly being justified in their opposition to the Zionist conspiracy against them. I suspect he is reading, like some of us are, about the very real Zionist conspiracy against the Germans and indeed the slaughter of 60 million Christian Europeans by Jewish Bolsheviks and their commie minions.

    For him to have admitted this possibility means his curiosity has been stimulated by so called neo Nazis and has realised there may be far more to history and Nazism than we’re brain washed with int the west.

    The rest of the piece appears to me to be a self confessed reinforcement of his own programmed view.

    One relevant paragraph mentioning the blocking of ears.

    Once he reads a little more he will soon come to realise it is not the so called neo Nazis/fascists and such who have their hands over their ears but the entire liberati mainstream puppets and their supporters.

    You speak of the white genocide project and most cannot even begin to debate this topic despite it being the single most important issue facing the entire white race today. And once this author reads some more beyond the brain wash educating himself on material provided by the so called Nazis he will one day realise the fool hardiness of his position and his gullible parroting of prgrammed stigma and propaganda and quite possibly one day admit the Nazis were right all along.

    The right wingers are the most educated on matters of politics, finance and history yet you will never see a single one of them allowed a teaching position in any school for truth is something the true masters will do their very best to keep hidden.

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      Thank you Mr Streicher.

  • Cyril Sneer

    Matthew, you echo the left and the establishment in that you are utterly clueless.

    Despair away Matthew, alternatively you can always emigrate along with all the other multi-cult cultists and cease writing amateurish garbage such as this.

    Take one for the team Matthew and vanish.

  • RobX

    It’s your lot’s fault that UKIP exists at all, sir.

    Regarding the Internet: A viewpoint may attract any number of impolite advocates. People online are often unpleasant – just look at the comments on YouTube.

    I think that the British have been brow-beaten into not being allowed to voice their concerns in any forum – no matter how moderately – about all sorts of things for fear of feeling the branding iron of a very power political and media class on their backsides.

    People haven’t been taken seriously on any of the issues that UKIP (claim to) take seriously. You can only witheringly patronise and be rude (your words) to people for so long, you know, Mr Parris. And you would indeed know: think “Clacton” and “calling people Nazis and offering a retraction in the same breath” as recent examples. But the Internet and the ballot box offer a safe haven to speak freely and vote in anonymity. Where else do you expect all the anger it to spill out?

  • Observer1951

    Mathew, of course you cannot understand the mindset of people who supported Hitler or UKIP supporters. You live in your lovely Derbyshire cottage with not a care in the world. How would you have felt if you had lost everything through devastating economic decline and your wages were delivered in a wheel barrow. How can you equate to people who believe that jobs they could do are being given to people from abroad who work for less than minimum wage.

  • bengeo

    Well, I haven’t seen such a vindication of an article, by the comments, since I last read The Drudge Report.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      Which bit of the article? This one?

      “You’ll remind me that these commentators are no more representative than the loudmouths who call in to shock-jock radio phone-ins; that I’m looking at a grotesquely skewed sample”.

  • Mike

    When LibLabCon refuse to take the threat of Islam seriously then its hardly surprising there’s comments spelling it out in plain English which Parris chooses not to do.

    Fifteen years of gang rape of vulnerable underage girls by men who follow a religion with the mother-lode of bad ideas and then covered up by the three main stream parties is just one example of how the electorate has been betrayed by our politicians. Clearly you’re an apologist and denier over the religion of evil thats a cancer on the world and far more dangerous than Ebola !

  • anneteak

    I’ve also been interested in why German people became so extreme.

    I spoke to one and she said that she hadn’t been political but had heard Adolf Hitler speak at a rally and been convinced by him.

    What it was is that he had voiced what she was feeling and gave a logical and spirited account of how he would solve her problem

    What is happening us that politicians gave taken their eye off why they were elected are permanently locked into dissing the other parties ( see Question Time).

    Because a vacuum exists, UKIP has stepped into it. Because many people vote on their specific situations…you can’t sell anything to anyone without them desiring it in some way.

    UKIP has something tangible to sell. Curbing immigration.

    Both the Tories and Labour parties haven’t.

    Not even the ‘promise’ of a referendum will help at this stage because of the promises broken at the last election.

    Unless the Tories are in a position to offer a solution to people’s problems, and they seem to be the way large amounts if immigrants are sharing the UK’s services, they won’t win.

    It’s nothing to do with Naziism.

    • EricHobsbawmtwit

      “you can’t sell anything to anyone without them desiring it in some way”

      It’s a kind-of ratchet. It’s not absolute.

    • Paddy Kilshamus

      ‘I’ve also been interested in why German people became so extreme.’ All you need to do to understand why is to watch ‘The Greatest Story Never Told’ on YouTube.

  • Lydia Robinson

    I rather think Matthew has never been exposed to the hate filled, antisemitic, frothing far left in this country. If he wants to see pure hatred and bile and various “converts” spewing forth disgusting and hate filled rhetoric, look no further than those kind of people. Literally, the only kind of “discourse” these kind of people understand is screaming and shouting down at those who disagree with them. If he sees any of this kind of behaviour from UKIP types, I’d be surprised.

  • Joy Bent

    The sad thing is that you don’t realise Nigel Farage IS TELLING THE TRUTH. EU is the dictatorship, we are being driven, like sheep, into a black-hole that is the EU. When they make rules we obey/follow like sheep. Only Farage is strong enough to get us out. A saint in my eyes.

  • Geoff Cockayne

    “It’s a dark bilious and resentful world down there among the readers’ posts.”
    Yes indeed.
    Some twenty years ago when I participated in the first internet forums, I foolishly foretold a web-based new enlightenment, where people from around the world would exchange ideas – and treat each other with some kind of respect. I spent ten years trying to engage in rational debate, sine ad hominem, giving up when I realised that exposing oneself to such toxins has an impact even if one adopts Ebola strength protection.
    The great majority of decently minded people, for obvious reasons, steer clear of these forums, and I intend to return to my happy exile as soon as this post is completed. At least here on the Spectator, most people seem able to construct sentences which demonstrate acquaintance with the conventions of the English language. The content for the most part, sadly, demonstrates the accuracy of Mr Parris’ observation above.
    Oh brave new world.

  • Gerry Smith

    Excellent article Matthew, but too safe. There has always been a disturbing, underlying racism within British society that should be confronted at every opportunity. The tipping point to fascism is always close.

    • Bill_der_Berg

      That policy would have kept Churchill out of office, for better or worse.

  • george

    Bit of an emotive article but at least you highlighted the disillusion of us populists with the political/social/economic elites that run this country. Would more interesting for u to try an explain why so many are turning to ukip instead of ‘better’ causes?

  • leosco4750

    In 1975 I voted against joining the EEC because I had previously read Jean Monnet’s socialist dissertation on the Federal future of the European State, I realised at that time that the justification for joining a common market Edward Heath had falsely given the electorate was a betrayal of immense proportions, since joining this corrupt cartel as a non executive member the UK has suffered a trading deficit in all but one of the 41 years of our membership, whereas UK trade with non EU states has always shown a trading surplus.
    As a result of our EU membership, the CFP and the CAP British shoppers are paying an extra £0.17 in every pound we spend on food compared to consumers in comparable non member states.
    As a result of our EU membership 70% of our laws are now subsidiary to EU rulings and any defiance of those rulings could result in substantial fines.
    As a result of our EU membership this country is officially the most densely populated nation in Europe with a population density per km2 of nearly 500, France which is twice the land mass of the UK has a population density per km2 of just 119.
    Proportionally our MEP,s have much less influence over EU policy than many smaller economies, succeeding to protect the interests of the UK in just under 10% of all policies voted on.
    The myth that 3,000,000 UK jobs depend on EU membership is simply scaremongering, those same jobs are dependent on all UK export trade, not just the EU, in fact the UK is the biggest export market for Germany,France, Italy and Holland so if we left the EU those nations could not afford to cease trading with us as it might prejudice the integrity of more than 5,500,000 jobs in the EU.
    The EU is never going to allow itself to be reformed from within, why keep knocking your head against a brick wall? Just leave on friendly terms, let us as Churchill would say, be supportive to Europe but not of it!

  • Schlomo Finkelstein

    How dare you people apologize for what Hitler did to my people. Was not 60 million enough to be gassed in Dachau and Auschwitz, again?? Never AGAIN!!! not to my race. The Jewish race WILL survive. You anti semites will live to rue this day you blaspheme against we chosen ones.

  • marxistdeathcamps

    What a better world it would be today if Germany had won the war.Churchill Stalin,Eisenhower mass murderer’s, the real holocaust was inflicted on the German people when the war was ment to be over.

  • pobinr

    What the Nazis failed to do with bombs & bullets, the German dominated EU does with economics instead.

    The EU is an economic dictatorship.
    During WWII the Nazis installed a puppet prime minister in Greece.
    Up until their recent election of Greece had another puppet prime minister Samaras courtesy of the EU velvet Nazis who now control Greece via its money supply.
    ‘Do as we say or get no more bailouts’.
    And this is going on all around Europe!

    The EU is a Nazi invention >

  • Jean de Valette

    Just heard your “but it’s all about me” segment on the Speccie podcast – this time about how Christianity fails to suit your religion of MatthewPerrisnousianity.

    Just set your Very Heavy laden yoke down, son.
    It’s alright.
    It really is alright.
    Just stop.

  • pobinr

    How the EU is dismantling democracy in Europe;

    ‘The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions. This way, the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed’
    – Adolf Hitler, Mein Kamf

    50 years of LibLabCon treachery >

  • alan piper

    So then Matthew, who set you up to be judge jury and executioner in your trial of UKIP members.As a proud member of UKIP all I want is to get my country back from the unelected undemocratic unaccountable dictators in Brussels and Germany. For someone who attempts to convince us that you are quite intelligent you don’t actually show much common sense, for this reason I will totally ignore your disgraceful comments about the 4 million people who voted UKIP at the General Election. People like you are insulated from mass immigration you live in your ivory tower not affected by someone taking your job at a lower rate of pay or someone jumping the social housing queue or forcing you to wait weeks to see your GP.Come on Matthew it’s time to remove you’r rose tinted specs and see things how they are.