Features

Vladimir Putin’s empire of lies

His answer to the destruction of Flight MH17 has been more propaganda.In Russia, at least, it seems to be working

26 July 2014

9:00 AM

26 July 2014

9:00 AM

According to Russian state television, flight MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian government forces who believed they were targeting Vladimir Putin’s jet returning from a summit in Brazil. An unnamed Spanish air traffic controller allegedly overheard two Ukrainian fighter pilots talking about the secret operation at Kiev’s Boryspil Airport. Ukrainian jets were supposedly seen tailing the doomed flight just before it exploded. Or, no — the plane was actually downed by a surface-to-air rocket fired from Kiev-controlled territory. Russian spy satellites recorded the whole incident, apparently. Sorry, scratch that: according to the Donbas Republic’s self-declared minister of defence, Igor Girkin (nom de guerre Igor Strelkov), the Malaysian Boeing was actually filled with dead bodies. ‘A significant number of the bodies weren’t fresh’ when they fell from the sky, Strelkov told Russian TV viewers. He also claimed that many of them had been ‘drained of blood’ and ‘stank of decomposition because they had been dead for days’. The whole incident was a plot cooked up by Kiev to discredit the separatists. ‘They are capable of any baseness,’ he said.

Indeed: the Kremlin-controlled media seem capable of any baseness in their rush to deflect blame and scramble the minds of their audience with conspiracy theories. Russia’s official media have been bending the truth to order for decades — apart from a brief and chaotic respite in the 1990s. But in recent months Vladimir Putin’s propaganda machine has gone to a new level of credibility–defying cynicism. The kind of stories it is prepared to create to obscure the truth of what happened to MH17 — and what’s going on in Ukraine in general — have left the realm of spin and entered the fantastical.

Last week, Russian TV viewers were horrified by a report from Russian Channel One’s Rostov-on-Don bureau on atrocities apparently committed by the Ukrainian army. A hollow-cheeked blonde woman in her thirties, introduced as Galina Pyshnyak, ‘a refugee from Slavyansk’, recounted how she had witnessed Ukrainian army soldiers crucifying a three-year-old boy before dragging his mother around Lenin Square behind a tank. A horrific story to which she was apparently the only eyewitness. But sharp-eyed viewers recognised the ‘refugee’ as actress Galina Astapenko from Obukhov, near Kiev, whose husband Dmitry Pyshnyak is a former member of the notorious Berkut paramilitary police unit (since disbanded by the government in Kiev) who is now fighting with separatists in Donbass.

According to recent posts on her social networking page, Astapenko is enjoying summer with her own children. And there is no Lenin Square in Slavyansk. Television gossip credits the ‘crucifixion’ scenario to Yulia Chumakova, Channel One’s Rostov bureau chief, who is apparently a big fan of Game of Thrones — where the terrible sight of a crucified child at the beginning of the fourth season moves the blonde Daenerys Stormborn to tears.


Russian state TV has also convinced its viewers that the newly elected government in Kiev is dominated by ‘fascists’ (though far right parties polled around 4 per cent), and that the ‘self-defence forces’ in eastern Ukraine are preventing a ‘genocide’ of ethnic Russians by the Ukrainian army. Most bizarrely, they have convinced the Russian people that censorship itself is normal and good. In a recent poll by the Moscow-based FOM, 72 per cent of respondents in 42 Russian regions were ‘indifferent’ to the idea of media censorship, and 54 per cent said that the government had the ‘right to distort information for the good of the country’ — up from under 30 per cent a year ago. And though a large number of young Russians get their information from the internet, state television’s prejudices and worldview translate online too — in a recent poll by the liberal online paper Slon.ru, 43 per cent of respondents had a negative view of the Kiev government.

Interestingly, Putin himself has carefully avoided actually lying. He’s appeared twice on national television — the second time at half-past one in the morning, to coincide with the prime-time evening news in the US — to say that MH17 would not have been shot down if Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko had made peace. Technically, of course, he is right. But that is like saying that the accidental sinking of the Lusitania by a German U-boat in 1915 — the tragedy which brought the United States into the first world war — was Britain’s fault because Britain had failed to make peace with Germany. That twisted logic is typical of Putin’s KGB training — and in fact, deliberately spreading disinformation is a recognised KGB technique systematically taught to all officers. Fill the information space with crazy conspiracy theories and lies and enough people will believe you that the real picture will never become clear.

Always blame Ukraine — according to Sara Firth, who was until recently a reporter for the Kremlin-funded English language RT television (formerly Russia Today), it’s even part of the channel’s official guidance on how to report a story. Firth resigned last Friday after five years at RT after her editors ‘disrespected the facts’ of MH17. ‘I walked into the newsroom and they were running an eyewitness account of God-knows-who blaming the Ukrainian government,’ Firth told Press Gazette. ‘I was asked to burn the facts.’ RT — which has made a name for itself by reporting on homelessness in America, interviewing Hugo Chavez, covering conspiracy theories about Barack Obama’s real place of birth and hiring Julian Assange as a current affairs presenter — responded that Firth and the channel ‘have different definitions of truth’.

Burning the facts and changing definitions of the truth — to the Kremlin, those are perfectly legitimate weapons in a tooth-and-nail information war being fought both at home and abroad. The aim of this campaign is not just improved public relations but, in an updated version of Stalin’s dictum, to ‘engineer men’s souls’. Control what people believe, and you control how they behave.

Tragically, the empire of lies that Putin has created has real-world consequences. The rebels fighting in Donbass genuinely believe they are protecting their families from fascism. A frighteningly high proportion of Russians — including many intelligent and well-travelled Russian friends who should really know better — are convinced that the US is hell-bent on destroying their country. Propaganda works: and when it does, it truly does become a weapon that creates and sustains shooting wars.

As the evidence about the downing of MH17 points more and more clearly to a tragic blunder by inexperienced pro-Russian separatists using deadly rockets supplied by Moscow, the Kremlin’s spin machine has gone into a different gear. Western Sovietologists used to call it ‘whataboutism’ — ask about the invasion of Afghanistan and the Soviets would reply, ‘What about Northern Ireland?’ The latest permutation of this is: what about the Iranian airliner shot down by the Americans in 1983? What about a Russian civilian airliner accidentally destroyed by bungling Ukrainian troops in 2001? And — to charges that Russian media have lied — what about Iraqi WMD? Don’t talk to us about lying: your leaders lied, and the western press parroted the lies. The message is: you’re just as dishonest as us, but just more hypocritical with your high-minded notions of a free press.

Last week the Dutch Prime Minister said that Putin had ‘one last chance to do the right thing’ by allowing investigators on the scene. He might have added that Putin has one last chance to stop insulting the intelligence of the world with his obfuscation. But taking control of Russia’s independent media was the first thing Putin did when he came to power. His hold on the Kremlin depends on him being able to brainwash his people into believing his view of the world — which in the aftermath of MH17 just became more distorted than ever.

Got something to add? Join the discussion and comment below.

Owen Matthews is the author of Glorious Misadventures and Stalin’s Children, and a former Moscow bureau chief for Newsweek.

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Show comments
  • thien minh

    just about time. Communist is always like this

  • Dr. Heath

    It was at the end of, I think, a World at War episode that a German women explained what she believed Hitler [yes, apologies in advance to all of the fourteen-year-old onanists who’ll be on line soon to say that it’s not allowed to mention this name here] had been up to for a dozen years.

    Grofaz, the Greatest Leader of All Times, had encouraged Germans to believe that the world was out there for Germans to loot. It had been, the woman explained, an offer that the citizenry couldn’t refuse. The gangsters would set forth and bring home the loot to share out, all Germans would revel in the newly acquired wealth. Best of all, it was all perfectly legit, however cruel the acquisition process might at times seem, because the propaganda SAID that it was just and legitimate and, of course, part of the revenge process, all righteous people understood, went back to the previous war.

    Of course, the woman standing in the rubble field said, it turned out to have been a con. The conmen stood revealed for the gangsters and liars they were and, too late in the day, were dead or under arrest. What had seemed a good idea at the time, well, that was the Germans being duped by an unscrupulous murderer who cared as little for them as for his other victims.

    I’m not sure how this relates to Russia’s current Great Leader. I’m inclined to think that people outside the Putin’s People’s Paradise are afraid of Vladimir and, as a result, unwilling to read, say, the things he’s said or written or pay any attention to what he’s been up to since 2000. I’m also inclined to think he’s done very well at lying to his subjects and that he believes in very little else except for the content of his lies. Is this too harsh?

    • Baron

      Nope, Dr, Heath, not harsh, but wrong.

      The Russian unwashed comparison of their lives is between the Putin’s ‘dictatorship’ and that under the now defunct Red Menace, the former wins hands down, it furnished them with more than a breath of fresh air.

      Should the hoi polloi get a better ruling class? Yup, they deserve it for all the past suffering, the sacrifices they had made to save Europe from an even worse dictatorships twice in the last two centuries. Could they have a more enlightened ruling class? Nope, because the ruling class comes from their ranks, and the bad habits of the unwashed inherited from the years of the communist past still linger on. It will take a few generations for the propensity to corruption, bribery, thieving – the legacy of the recent past – to get expunged from the society.

      Our barking at Putin doesn’t help to turn the Russian contemporary society for the better, quite the opposite. You read Bruce Anderson piece next door, he has an idea that may work, Baron reckons.

      • Kennybhoy

        Sound.

        We betrayed the Russian people post 1989…

    • Cyril Sneer

      I read that as the American people and their leadership.

  • orianeg

    Compared to lies menaces blackmails OBAMA empire, the so-called Putin lies empire is … nothing !

    • Frank Capra

      You’re not too obvious Igor. Very lazy and poor propaganda. No botilko for you. No black bread either.

    • You are insane.

  • Ilya Grushevskiy

    You miss the basic point, for being a journalist – while there is a tonne of propaganda being spewed in the east, the west is different only cosmetically.

    Frankly, free media’s springing into action, instantly and indifferently to the scene of every human catastrophe, intentionally pointing fingers in a rat race to be “the first” to bring the “facts”, in order to increase its standing within the free-market economy that is information, is abhorrent, if not downright dangerous.. It’s not propaganda, but when the situation is still in fluid, it’s dangerous.

    Putin will not stop an investigation, he isn’t dumb – at least that he’s shown. The investigation will probably show that there were part truths being said on both sides, and that whoever shot the plane down, did it by mistake – no gain for the Russians to do this otherwise.

    As for the weapons, why is everyone suddenly of the opinion that Russia’s military “might” is under lock and key and not for sale?! Stuff is being decommissioned and made redundant fast there and a Major or a Colonel who is happy to organ harvest (as may happen within the army) from conscripts, will surely sell a few missiles to rebels. (not that this is a good excuse btw, just probs the facts)

    Also, Andriy Parubiy is in charge of the “anti-terrorist” operation in Ukraine.. read about him, he sounds like a lovely fellow.

    • garyisabusyguy

      Ilya,
      You may have a point if the Western media was monolithic and in lock-step with each other. However, they are a disparate as a heard of cats and just as likely to savage their own leadership (remember Greenwald and Snowden) as another country’s leaders

      RT and the rest of the Russian media have to such disparity and produce stories that fit seamlessly with each other, as propaganda will when it is flowing from a single source

      Thanks for trying, but we are not buying, and soon enough the Russian people will stop buying as well

      • The intelligent Russian people do not buy the propaganda; are long used to seeing through KGB/FSB BS and understand the cruel brutal and greedy nature of Putin and Putinism, but they also know the consequences of speaking the truth to a totalitarian regime.

      • Ilya Grushevskiy

        Oh I agree Western media is not monolithic like the Russian one. I’m an economist, so I describe it as free market in the west, and totalitarian in the east. (I’m a free market guy btw)

        However, multiple disparate news agencies, across the complete spectrum of mass media siding with the Zeitgeist of the day before any accurate information is known by anyone, including nation states, simply because not going against public speculation will bring more profits than being fair, balanced and not preemptory, at least for that time before the “truth”, whatever that is, comes out, is negligent. And in cases where this affects outcomes in the real world, for better or for worse (as it is simply speculation), criminally negligent.

        I don’t disagree that Russia dictates, but the West speculates, and both are as bad as each other to me.

  • Salminalation

    Putin has won hands down and it was so easy for him. All he had to do was note and copy the behaviour of the USA and the UK. What he’s doing and saying is no different to the American imperium since WW2, since when it has successfully overthrown nearly 50 foreign governments. Tinkering with Crimea and Ukraine is basic stuff by comparison.

    Putin accurately assessed that a lot of bluster would come out of Downing St, the FCO and their equivalents in Europe, but that no foreign leader would dare to do any more; they are all wussies compared with him.

  • Salminalation

    Putin has won hands down and it was so easy for him. All he had to do was note and copy the behaviour of the USA and the UK. What he’s doing and saying is no different to the American imperium since WW2, since when it has successfully overthrown nearly 50 foreign governments. Tinkering with Crimea and Ukraine is basic stuff by comparison.

    Putin accurately assessed that a lot of bluster would come out of Downing St, the FCO and their equivalents in Europe, but that no foreign leader would dare to do any more; they are all wussies compared with him.

  • ChristianUppsala

    There are some independent media in Russia. Tonight the TV channel TV Rain (“Doshd”) has broadcast an excellent roundtable on MH17 where nothing was hidden. Sure, the panel also included a ridiculous figure from the Kremlin’s propaganda channel Piervy Kanal, but his bizarre conspiracy theories were systematically dismantled by other panel members who repeatedly made it clear that overwhelming evidence pointed to MH17 being shot down by an SA-11 missile operated by pro-Russian rebels and that the idea of a lightly armed Ukrainian SU-25 plane (which can fly no higher than 3000 meter) could be responsible was nothing but ludicrous.

    • Frank Capra

      Most people around the world already suspect that nearly all Russians by now are physiologically incapable of recognizing the truth.

      • iaagg

        I was convinced that the comments on RT YouTube channel were all paid Russian government shills, now you have me more scared that they really believe this crap.

      • saffrin

        I suspect that is a genuine racist remark.

        • speakthetruth

          not racist, truthful.

      • Kennybhoy

        Physiologically incapable? This utterly primitive and disgusting comment says more about you than the Russian people you evil man…

        • garyisabusyguy

          OK, if not physiologically, then psychologically

          Cognitive Dissonance:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

          Is what is happening here, where people are unwilling to admit that their beliefs are false, and thereby susceptible to believing any amount of nonsense as long as it does not challenge their initial belief

    • gerad

      What an idiot statement…and I do mean idiot. There is plenty of independent media in Russia. Funded by the state is not the same as controlled by the state you ignorant clown.

      There is no such thing as “russian propaganda” there is though a morally and politically correct view….which coincides with what the Russian media are courageously and accurately reporting.

      • speakthetruth

        who is the idiot now, take off the blinker and open your eyes. gerad you must live in a sand storm all your life if you believe what they are saying. THERE IS NO LENON SQUARE IN KIEV MORON. it was an outright lie…

        • gerad

          There is a dismembered elderley lady in Lugansk though.Moron.

          • speakthetruth

            oh you mean from the plane the Russians shot down

    • Cyril Sneer

      The SU-25 can fit air to air missiles of a higher range that are easily capable of downing an airliner flying at 30k feet. With these type of missiles it is irrelevant what height the SU-25 can achieve.

    • James Richardson

      Perhaps the Russian’s will respond with sanctions of their own which will really bit the West… http://theoccasionalpigeonuk.blogspot.co.uk/2014/07/russia-cuts-porn-exports-to-west-in.html

  • Frank Capra

    I don’t understand why western nations, their politicians, their media and even their putative experts continue to expect Adolf Putin to take advantage of the latest “last chance” to demonstrate rational and reasonable behavior. If Putin is capable of murdering Russians en masse (Moscow apartments 1999, Kursk submarine 2000, Moscow theater 2002, Beslan elementary school 2004) he surely has no compunction about murdering foreign nationals. Putin’s crimes belies any rational and reasonable behavior. Yet the west continues to expect it from the most dangerous mass murderer in the world.

    • iaagg

      It is very naive. May the Western leaders want to appear as doing something when they are aware that they will not succeed.

      • No actually it is not “very naive” it is the product of studying the product of honest reporting. Putin is a psychopathic killer and you a defender of his nonexistent character.

        • iaagg

          You misunderstood. Check my comments, and you will know what I believe. It is a do nothing EU and and semi do nothing US that are afraid to take on Russian for loss of revenue, gas whatever. I don’t defend Putin in the least. He is an imperialist and is very aware that the EU will do nothing to stop him. First Georgia then Crimea, now Ukraine, next will be Moldova.

          • As as citizen of the “semi-do-nothing US” and a resident of “a do nothing EU,” who cooks on Gazprom gas, I do not believe that, at the end of the day, either reluctant warrior will be so stupid as to fail to respond to the existential threat that Russia, — mislead by Vladimir Putin — represents.

            However, I’m old enough to know
            that I’ve been wrong in the past.

        • iaagg

          Check my posts. You will see what I think of Adolf Putin.
          People like you are rare. They see through all the paid shill lies. Have a good one my friend.

          • Cyril Sneer

            He is utterly ignorant!

          • iaagg

            Enemy to Ukraine and the world.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Check my profile, read my previous comments on Ukraine, Syria, UKIP, immigration, football – you have over 10,000 comments to go through.

            And you have a measily 307 comments, so you must be the paid CIA stooge right.

        • iaagg

          By calling the Western leaders naive to expect taciturn gestures to influence Putin, how does that make me a defender of Putin?

          • We’ll see, but you are right if they expect less than a full on economic response to impact this KGB thug, they are naive.

          • iaagg

            Exactly. but the EU does not have the balls, for such a set of sanctions.

    • man

      You help Putin’s cause by suggesting tbat everything he does is wrong. With the theater and the school he had no choice.

      They were simply terrorist operations that had to be stopped. The US or UK would have acted in the same way.

  • Frank Capra

    I don’t understand why western nations, their politicians, their media and even their putative experts continue to expect Adolf Putin to take advantage of the latest “last chance” to demonstrate rational and reasonable behavior. If Putin is capable of murdering Russians en masse (Moscow apartments 1999, Kursk submarine 2000, Moscow theater 2002, Beslan elementary school 2004) he surely has no compunction about murdering foreign nationals. Putin’s crimes belies any rational and reasonable behavior. Yet the west continues to expect it from the most dangerous mass murderer in the world.

  • Free Rudy Guede

    That’s a bit rich. The English are the masters of the art of atrocity propaganda.
    Why is the Russian media claiming the Ukrainians were responsible any more reprehensible than Owen Matthews claiming the Russians were responsible?
    Pot, Kettle, Black

    • iaagg

      You are talking about on man verses a 300 million dollar disinformation machine (Russia). Not quite the same my friend.

      • saffrin

        Saddam Hussein had WMD you know?
        An Iraqi cab driver said so.
        So did the western propaganda machine.

        • iaagg

          Yes Saffrin you work these boards, I have seen you many times spitting Russian BS. I hope the money is good.

          • saffrin

            If you think that’s BS, you should hear what they’re saying about Hitler and the jews.
            I’m thinking, if that were true, why did all those prisoners we saw on The World at War documentaries look like they’d been there long enough to turn to skin and bone.

          • iaagg

            You make no sense my friend.

          • saffrin

            There is a rumor POW’s returning from Japanese prison camps stopped off in Europe on the way home.
            Had to sign the official secrets act as to why.

          • iaagg

            OK well my friend I am tired of this. Have a good day or night or whatever time it is there.

          • saffrin

            It’s hard to know what the truth is unless you/I were there.
            They could be pulling our plonker on just about anything.
            God made the universe in 6 days.
            That’s something else I heard.

          • lookout

            God made the atmosphere/biosphere, fish, birds,animals, veg and man in six days, the planet and solar system is older. Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, he hid them in the Euphrates river bed after the first gulf war, in the gap between wars the weapons were moved to Syria, the Israelis bombed the site a few years ago, no one complained, not the Syrians, Arabs, Muslims or UN. Independent journalists found evidence that drunken Ukrainian soldiers shot down the jet, hitting Russia is part of the great game

          • There is more than a rumor that you are full of sh##.
            What’s your real name and where do you live, LIAR.

          • saffrin

            You should try listening to your own government if you want to know what true BS is.

            Take Obama for instance. That Nobel Peace Prize winner has been warmongering ever since.
            Not only is the US still in Iraq and Afghanistan, they’ve been promoting conflict all across North Africa, the Middle East and now the tw*t is picking a fight with Putin.

          • “The US is promoting conflict across North Africa”

            Right, It’s American provocateurs
            who created the “Arab Spring?”

            Are you nuts?

          • saffrin

            Got it in one.
            And by supply arms to Syrian rebels they have created the new Isis.
            Oh how they plan their wars well in downtown Washington.
            They must be making bundles for their armament factories.
            Still, keeps the worker units busy I guess.

          • Cyril Sneer

            You are incredibly ignorant.

          • What’s your real name?

            Здравствуйте, товарищ.

          • Cyril Sneer

            I’ve already told you. Is Joey your CIA handle or is that just a name they give to full blown retards?

      • iaagg

        Lookout here come the shills.

    • iaagg

      Lookout here come the shills. Everyone watch what happens when I go against the Putin Propaganda machine. They are like roaches on bread.

      • Free Rudy Guede

        The Odessa Trade Union House fire is a perfect example of how the BBC is exactly the same as Russian media.
        http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27275383
        You actually have a photo of Ukrainian nationalist hurling a flaming petrol bomb into the burning building – but is this enough for the BBC to conclude such actions caused the catastrophe? No – the cause of the blaze, it solemnly concludes, is too difficult to determine and may never be known.
        Yet in this case, with most media have no knowledge of how a Buk missile system operates, anything about the flight path, no conversations of air traffic control, no knowledge of radar stations along the path of the plane or their activity and no verified knowledge of actual missile battery locations – the geniuses of the Western media can conclude all the evidence points to Russia. A picture of moral clarity which was so absent in the coverage of the Odessa fire.
        Face it, the western media and the Russian media are exact mirror images of each other and Owen Matthews would as happily spin for RT as he would for FT.

        • iaagg

          I think you mean FN.

        • Cyril Sneer

          In the Trade Union massacre article the BBC regard Right Sector as ‘Right Wing’, just like the Conservative party apparently, whilst they regard UKIP as ‘far right’.

          You heard it right, the jew hating neo-nazis of Right Sector currently committing warcrimes in Eastern Ukraine are just tories whilst UKIP who want controlled immigration and a vote on an EU exit is the nazi party apparently.

          The BBC has ceased to be of any worth to anyone of any worth. Kill it.

      • Le Ruscino
      • Peoples Liberation Front

        Shut it, Captain America

        • iaagg

          Thanks for proving my point shill.

          • Peoples Liberation Front

            Go take a holiday in Guatanamo Bay.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Go invade another sovereign country and go give Islamic terrorists another leg up you moronic f cktard.

          • iaagg

            Ah are you upset little boy?

          • Cyril Sneer

            Pretty disgusted at the crimes perpetrated by the US backed Kiev government and their fascist militia.

            Did you see the documentary on the Scandinavian neo-nazis who have flocked to the Ukraine to join the Ukrainian militias?

            Are you even aware of the some 1,500 Ukrainian mercenaries who are currently surrounded in the south east of the country after over extending themselves? You won’t know this because you do not visit sites that provide the true picture of what is going on there.

          • iaagg

            Have you visited the sites? Seriously?

        • Здравствуйте, товарищ

          is the appropriate response to these shills
          many of whom are not even domestic fools
          but agents paid to lie.

          • Peoples Liberation Front

            Yankee doodle dandy

          • What’s your name?
            Where are you?
            Anonymous slander is the meaningless response of cowards.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Prick.

          • speakthetruth

            seriously is your name Prick, that’s not good, not good at all…

          • speakthetruth

            WTF, I think it is time for bed little boy.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Check out my profile you ignorant old man. Born and bred Englishman and Washington needs a little Maidan riots of its own to depose the sub-humans that run it.

            Putin is an absolute god in comparison to these murderous sacks of sh t.

            You heard it, there are many here in the UK that now have a much higher regard for Putin than they do their own leaders.

        • speakthetruth

          here is a jealous one, live in a free world and we can say and BELIEVE what we want, not just the beliefs of your local dictator.

      • speakthetruth

        you said it, only the dumb would defend Putin.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Clearly that’s not true as you’re not defending him.

  • Kennybhoy

    Propaganda Maister Matthews ?

    What the fuck do you call the cartoon above then?

  • Russian mindset is messed up

  • PStockl

    I don´t have any doubt about usage of propaganda form Kremlin side, but hell, what is this? Did you already seen any promised evidences from U.S. or Kiev? So, how could I make difference between You and any Russian apparatchik? Or did you work under same conditions like pro-Kremlin journalists. Are there still any differences between so called free world and authoritarian Russia?

    • iaagg

      You have to think for yourself. You have to gather information from independent sources. Are you up to that?

  • Le Ruscino

    US presents “Social Media” as evidence meaning YouTube videos which later proved to be doctored and Russia presents Radar records, flight path records & satellite images – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Now look at the crash site carefully & see the amount of plane debris & dead bodies etc etc and cast your mind back to 9/11 & the manicured Pentagon lawn where a plane supposedly crashed all in one single spot that logically would concentrate the debris – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Who is famous for False Flags to start wars – cast your mind back to Tonkin Bay, Pearl Harbour or the Ghouta Chemical attack recently in Syria – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Who gains from this False Flag? If US had any real evidence to slam dunk Russia we would have seen it by now !!! – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    The destruction of Ukraine plan of Victoria FtheEU Nuland is not going well & her Protégé has just resigned & the Kiev Junta govt has collapsed as of yesterday – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    • iaagg
      • Le Ruscino

        The experts analysis of this proved it was faked – get with it !

        • iaagg

          Oh, evidence. Proof. Anything? I am with it man so with it. You seem to be getting upset.

      • Le Ruscino

        Explain Spanish Air Traffic Controller in Kiev called Carlos & his tweets then disappearance then the erasing of Kiev’s Air Traffic Control records ?

        • iaagg

          There never was a Spanish air traffic controller. All commercial conversations are done in English as per Aviation regulations.

          • Le Ruscino

            Spaniards speak English too? Carlos might be dead now but he did exist & it was him who tweeted about the SU-25 following the MH17. Research an article called “Putin’s Missile”

            Please Google & don’t trust anyone especially if they are bankrupt & $17Trillion in debt & need to drive a wedge between Russia & Europe as BRICS set up a new bank with $200 Bn reserves to remove IMF & World Bank & eventually the US dollar!

            Even more importantly note that its public information that Germany can’t get its gold back from Fort Knox (because its been looted?) Also note that China & Russia have been stockpiling massive quantities of Gold to go Gold backed at the right moment.

          • iaagg

            Carlos did exist? I am sure there are a lot of Carlos out there just not working for the Ukrainian Air Traffic Control.

          • iaagg
          • Здравствуйте, товарищ

      • Le Ruscino
        • iaagg

          Show me something that is not a Russian made language in another report..

          • Le Ruscino

            Use Google the internet is awash with information that you can check & cross check.

            NOBODY will ever get away with another 9/11 style false flag as we can all check!

      • Cyril Sneer

        If you had bothered to read the comments at the foot of the article you would’ve noticed that this story was debunked days ago.

        Do you not find it odd that there is no video to accompany this article?

        If you had done your research then you would’ve found that this man has already come out and said that Reuters is lieing and that he never said that.

        • iaagg

          A commenter debunked the story no way!!!!! Um, right after he got in hot water with Igor the denials started. After the admission he was relieved of his high command. If you cared about the truth you would known that. Sure if a commenter says it is not true it caries the same weight as Reuters, right? Answer no.
          Again: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/mh17-ukraine-separatists-buk-missile-system
          Wow, you are one busy FSB operator. New account. Hey?
          I find it odd that you would question a rebel commander. He still has command of forces, but has been reduced in rank. I wonder why?

          • Cyril Sneer

            “New account. Hey?”

            First off, you can view my profile and you can see that I have made over 10,000 comments. So, you haven’t bothered checking, you have just made a baseless accusation.

            http://ria.ru/world/20140723/1017273394.html Alexander Khodakovsky denied that he ever said that rebels used Buk. He said that he never said this, his words were altered.

            Where is the full unedited Reuters video or audio record of this interview? You have a photo and a written article and you take this as gospel. Hilarious.

            You do realise that the BUK system is a collection of separate modules and that this commander in the Guardian article said that the rebels didn’t have a full operational system.

            Whilst the Ukrainian army has fully operational BUK systems deployed in the region and they’re trained to use it.

          • iaagg

            You are right !!! I looked at you account and see you have been a busy boy, so I changed my comment. Sorry, I wish you could get two right but the Buk has a stand alone mode that can be setup in 5 minutes with target aqusition in 22 seconds requiring one vehicle. I just takes several operators to run in this mode. Only the stand alone mode cannot distinguish between different types of aircraft. Hilarious?….now you are stretching it to far. I guess every news source is Hilarious. I gave you a second source even. One more source rebel admits shooting down plane: http://www.businessinsider.com/leak-separatists-discuss-shooting-down-civilian-aircraft-in-east-ukraine-2014-7

          • Cyril Sneer

            lol and this SBU recording that was released the day after the crash has also been proven false, do some research man this has been done and dusted already. This the same SBU that confiscated the ATC recordings (where are they?) and who release their ‘evidence’ on social media.

            Ask yourself why no one in the western media is bothering to report the ATC records being confiscated by the SBU and why haven’t these records been released.

          • iaagg

            Do some research man. I have debunked all of your theories
            No go along play with somebody else. It may be 7PM where you are but it is 7 Am here. Nice playing with you.

          • Cyril Sneer

            You haven’t debunked anything, you’ve linked me to articles where the ‘evidence’ contained within has already been proven false over a week ago!

            You have also failed to answer my questions whilst relying on the Ukrainian SBU to be impartial and without prejudice. Hilarious once again.

          • iaagg

            One more source, Do speak Russian? If not use Google translate. Paper admits a plane was shot down at the same time as MH17. http://www.vz.ru/news/2014/7/17/696045.html
            Which started the Igor bragging indecent the retraction and the whole mess that went with it. But this paper keep the shoot down information.

          • Cyril Sneer

            Do you actually have any evidence to prove that the rebels did it? And does the US know?

          • iaagg

            It was the Rebels or the Russians most likely the Rebels because the Russians would have been pros, and all of this shit would of never happened. I know you are doing you job but I don’t think you like the idea of 300 innocents killed anymore that I do. I am out. PeACE!

          • Cyril Sneer

            And any mention of the Ukrainian army and their BUK systems that are deployed in the region??

            So you don’t actually have any evidence, you’re just following the US line of baseless accusations without a conclusion of any independent investigation.

            Also interesting to note and not questioned by the media as to why the rebels specifically handed the black boxes over to the Malaysian authorities, which have then sadly ended up in the UK.

          • iaagg

            You keep asking me for evidence, and I have given you tons of evidence. Now its your turn. Show me that the Ukrainian army buks were deployed in the Rebel held territory of question and that their radar was activated. No shill sites allowed, only none Russian and none US outlets allowed.

    • Le Ruscino

      See the BBC report that accidentally proved that Kiev shot down MH17 that they quickly deleted! Smoking guns everywhere for BBC lies.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ8sjMWhl-4

      • iaagg

        News flash, it is still up and is done in Russian.

        • Le Ruscino

          Its off the BBC website but recovered on YouTube but nevertheless shows that the SU-25 of Ukrainian Air Force was right beside MH17 when it was downed – New analysis is claiming right or wrong that Air to Air missile damage is on MH17 cockpit area?

          Either way a major point is that the Rebels don’t have aircraft & don’t have BUK or the skills to use a BUK system but Kiev has both! Don’t let this tiny little point go over your head?

          • iaagg

            No, but they do go over your head. The missile crew was either Russian (probably not) or poorly trained rebels. Missile was in stand alone mode requiring only a few operators and cannoy distinguish between different types of aircraft. As per: The Buk 1M system can be setup in 5 minutes and have target acquisition in 22 seconds. I beg to differ sir: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/23/us-ukraine-crisis-commander-exclusive-idUSKBN0FS1V920140723

          • Cyril Sneer

            Of course you neglect to mention that rebel commander has since come out and said that Reuters lied and twisted his words.

            Of course, if you had an actual video or audio record that would be the only way of verifying what Reuters said was in fact accurate. But you don’t and Reuters hasn’t released anything just an article and a picture which considering Reuters track record is not worth the paper its written on.

            Is there any actual real evidence out there? I think there is, but it hasn’t and probably won’t ever be released.

          • iaagg

            You asked me who was behind the shooting MH17. It seems to be this man http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/29/-sp-ukraine-rebel-igor-bezler-interview-demon
            He fits the MO. Has the demon personality and is most likely to have been trained on the Buk as he is no lackey. This is just a theory but It is my best theory.

          • iaagg

            I am out dude late here and way past time for bed.

  • Jez

    This article is absolutely scandalous.

    Journo biased tripe.

    • Здравствуйте, товарищ.

      • Jez

        Hello Geezer.

        • That’s supposed to be a response?

          • Cyril Sneer

            Oh look the buffoon Joey Tranchina when faced with an opposing opinion trots out the ‘you are a paid Putin stooge’ line.

            Seriously man are you for real? Are you really that ignorant, that incapable of reading outside of the MSM?

  • Le Ruscino

    US presents “Social Media” as evidence meaning YouTube videos which later proved to be doctored and Russia presents Radar records, flight path records & satellite images – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Now look at the crash site carefully & see the amount of plane debris & dead bodies etc etc and cast your mind back to 9/11 & the manicured Pentagon lawn where a plane supposedly crashed all in one single spot that logically would concentrate the debris – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Who is famous for False Flags to start wars – cast your mind back to Tonkin Bay, Pearl Harbour or the Ghouta Chemical attack recently in Syria – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    Who gains from this False Flag? If US had any real evidence to slam dunk Russia we would have seen it by now !!! – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    The destruction of Ukraine plan of Victoria FtheEU Nuland is not going well & her Protégé has just resigned & the Kiev Junta govt has collapsed as of yesterday – WHO WOULD YOU TRUST?

    • garyisabusyguy

      Just saying,
      IF the US had set this up as a false flag, then they would be prepared to follow through
      SINCE I do not see a thermonuclear war washing across the planet, I feel that it is safe to assume that the US is not attack Russia

      Thanks for playing

    • CB

      cast your mind back to 9/11 & the manicured Pentagon lawn where a plane supposedly crashed

      Absolute plonker alert.

  • Le Ruscino
  • pearlsandoysters

    This is truly appaling article, a blatant poece of propoganda. A foregone comclusion is used as a premises, that does the trick. Russia, unlike NATO is not known for bombing sovereing countries based on false evidence. Where are the provebial weapons of mass destruction possessed by Iraq?

  • globalissues

    MH17 was a terrible tragedy.

    • iaagg

      One I can agree with.

    • “MH17 was a terrible tragedy.”

      No it is not. Tragedy implies a sense of inevitability.

      The downing of Flight MH17 was an awful crime,
      for which blame rests at the door of Vlad Putin’s office.
      This is illegal and intentional aggression designed to test
      the weakness of Europe and the chaos in America
      Czar Putin’s crime deserves the clearest response.

      I’d recommend cutting a compromise with the other BRICs
      then slamming the dollar window on the RBL. That should get
      the other thieves in Putin’s kleptocracy to treat him
      to a tradition feast or Russian wild mushrooms.

      • iaagg

        Or, “The Impaler” needs to take an military plane ride with Ukrainian army markings over rebel territory.

        • Aw we asy out west:
          “Rattlesnakes don’t commit suicide.”

  • S HC

    Header “His answer to the destruction of Flight MH17 has been more propaganda”- propaganda!!! His answer to the destruction of Flight MH17 :-“Must have the results of the investigation crash to draw conclusions”. Answer a few questions: “Who benefits from this wreck?”, “Who pulls the investigation?”, “Who can know about the causes of the crash, before an investigation?”, “If Russia is a terrorist, then why closed airspace over Ukraine?” and many, many others…..

  • S HC

    If you read these media, we can conclude:- “Terrorists Southeast Ukraine brutally shot down warplanes Ukraine who peacefully bombing of their city”.

  • Bayan
  • Bayan

    ‘rebels’ they can be called only relatively since many of them if not the majority are Russian nationals, mercenaries who came to fight, destroy and distabalize

    they terrorize the locals, rob them of their possessions

    • Cyril Sneer

      The rebels have the support of the local population. Kiev is indiscriminately shelling Eastern Ukrainian civilians and the MSM is silent.

  • rtj1211

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2014/07/25/mh17-verdict-real-evidence-points-to-us-kiev-cover-up-of-failed-false-flag-attack/

    would argue that the web of lies may be coming from a different axis of power, but the MSM in the UK seem somewhat reluctant to engage in discussing the contents of this article………

    • CB

      I stopped reading when I came to the ’10 previous MH17 flights diagram’. It is wholly inaccurate and attempting to mislead.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Well then that’s a shame as the article provides data and questions that the western media won’t touch or ask.

        Anyway I’m sure Kiev will release the ATC records and this will be all sorted out….. when are they releasing these records and is it true the SBU confiscated them as reported on the BBC before it got dropped.

  • In Russia, smart people — and there are lots of them — are afraid NOT to believe Putin’s lies. That is a product of tyranny not propaganda.

    Combine that with the lost -soul communists; the traditional sheep in the churches and the hundreds of thousands of Russian youth in brainwashing camps like Hitler Jugen, then you get — in broad lines and bright colors — a comic book version of totalitarianism.

  • Guest

    Was I?

  • mikewaller

    Those with a serious interest in this subject would be well advised to listen to the personality profile of Putin included in today’s “Broadcasting House” on Radio 4. It can be found on the i-player. Two stand out items. First, knowing Angela Merkel is afraid of dogs, the scumbag brought one of his hounds into a meeting in the Kremlin. Second, knowing he is sensitive about his height, the former head of Georgia took to referring to him as Lilliputin. He paid for it with the dismemberment of his country.

    • Cyril Sneer

      This is just as bad as the propaganda spouted in the MSM.

  • gerad

    I think an empty dishwasher could have written a better article than this substandard inaccurate filth.

  • speakthetruth

    Simply put if the people of Russia don’t believe what they are told they will be hunted down and killed by the dictator himself, that is what Putin is trained in. When will these stupid Russians come to there sensors and realize they are under a tyrant who is still running a communist regime and will never leave unless shot in the head. With the banning of homosexuality, protests, abortion, female equality and anything that provides free speech in Russia, Putin is walking in the footsteps of Joseph Stalin.

    Nobody wants to see that happen again, Stalin/Putin era should be ended now…….

    • Cyril Sneer

      It’s clear you have absolutely no understanding of the Russian people or their culture.

      You’re just another useful idiot that can be easily moulded by the MSM propaganda.

      • speakthetruth

        Actually, its quite clear that the Russian people are just the same as the most of the humans on this earth, stupid, probably including me, however the realization that the the world is going to shit has to be a step above those who think it isn’t. Wether your a Ukraine passenger to what could be the start of WW3 or a Brazilian farmer knocking down the worlds lungs just to stock a few more cows, we should all realize that it just won’t last. Putin has his head up his own ass but the only thing he doesn’t care about, like 99.9% of most politicians, is what people think of him which you have to respect. But the way he goes about what he does is crap and we all know that. Yes he is an asshole that cares about know-one but himself. (plus maybe his mistress)

        • Cyril Sneer

          My point was that you select certain countries and slate them based on their rejection of what you would call acceptable liberal values despite that these countries have values and standards of their own, separate from your upbringing, and that they do not adhere to the liberal values that you personally think should be the standard for the whole world.

          • speakthetruth

            Its not liberal values its basic human values, wether your supporting a guerrilla force that is killing innocents or telling someone they can’t be gay makes them an asshole. it’s that simple. The fact that you have an opinion makes you above Putin but if you support his beliefs about human rights makes you, well, you know. No offence. But why can’t a human be an individual and have an opinion and express that. Wether it be on a blog like this or by standing on a street corner kissing their homosexual lover we should all have that right. I can kiss my wife any where i want why cant they. Sorry its getting late and i’ve had a few drinks so i’m probably blabing on and changing the subject, but its true.

  • Cyril Sneer

    No mention of the shelling of cities in Eastern Ukraine at the hands of Kiev’s militias. You can always tell who the informed ones are – they’re the ones that are aware of this and they know that the western media is not covering these atrocities and why it’s not being covered. They’re the ones that urge restraint, call for peace, and ask for evidence when such wild baseless accusations are made as in the case of MH17.

    You can tell that these people get their real news outside of the MSM, the ignorant ones harp on about communism and ‘putler’ whilst blindly blaming Russia for everything despite the US track record. The Iraq lies is just a distant memory to these useful idiots, their awareness doesn’t even stretch to Libya or Syria, because the MSM doesn’t cover it effectively then neither do they. Ignorants who find it beyond them to seek out news sources away from the MSM, citizen journalists, alternative media (not RT either). Ignorants such as the author of this article are the people who could very well lead their deluded sheep into a war of their own making.

    • What’s your real name and who do you work for?

      You want criticism of American policy, I have 50 years of it under my own name. If you want to obscure other, often more ugly, forces operating in the world and put all the blame on America, you need to come out front with who you are.

      “wild baseless accusations are made as in the case of MH17.”
      Yea right. That is pure propaganda, in another word, it’s a lie.

      • Cyril Sneer

        Neil Robinson, I work for a large international company in the UK. Born and bred Worcester, UK.

        The fact that you think anyone with a differing opinion is a paid stooge tells me more about you than you care to admit.

        If you want to provide me with verifiable evidence to show that either the rebels or the Russians shot down that plane then go ahead. Neither the US ‘intelligence’ services or the propaganda merchants that is the Ukrainian SBU have been able to put anything remotely professional together.

        Also, you can explain why the Ukrainian SBU confiscated the ATC records and why the BBC reported this and have since dropped it. And you can explain to me the BBC Russia report from the MH17 crash area and why the locals who saw this incident reported seeing a fighter jet near to the airliner and the Ukrainian tactics of shadowing civilian aircraft before making an attack run as reported by locals. This BBC report has since been dropped by the BBC but fortunately sites like Liveleak still have this report.

        • Cyril Sneer

          I’m still waiting on this ‘smoking gun’ evidence you have Joey…

          • Cyril Sneer

            Where have you gone Joey?

  • Cyril Sneer

    Liveleak contains daily updates from Eastern Ukraine of civilians blown to pieces by artillery and air strikes courtesy of the US/EU sponsored Kiev regime. Every day, new videos arrive.

    They’re getting it just as bad as the Gazans but there is no western media coverage of the atrocities in Eastern Ukraine unlike there is of Gaza. The western media is complicit in these deaths.

    Viewing a half roasted mother and baby courtesy of a Kiev artillery strike is sobering to the soul.

  • The state of “cold war” exist again because Vladimir Putin is a fool.
    He has destroyed Russia’s future and now to cover his crimes against the Russian people he is willing to go to any lengths to stay in the game.

    When his fellow thieves realize the full extent of the threat Putin’s failed scam represents to their hustle, they will not find pieces of the little prick big enough to feed to a chicken. That’s my prediction. Of course he could always start a thermo-nuclear war. Remember: “To the psychopath, his death represents the end of the world.”

    Watch this space…

    • Cyril Sneer

      Putin is reacting to the actions of the west. The EU has swallowed up some 16 countries since 1995 and is now at the doorstep of Russia. Provoking another nuclear armed country is never a smart move, it wouldn’t be so bad if most Ukrainians wanted a pro-EU country but get this, they don’t. They want an independent Ukraine, neither aligned to the EU or Russia. Putin would also be satisfied with this, a buffer zone between the EU and Russia is just common sense. This is not what the US wants, as the objective of the USA is to isolate Russia and to see its eventual break up into easily pacifiable disparate states.

      • “Swallowing up” is absurd. They have history with Russia.
        The loathe and fear being bunged back into the Russian sphere.

        Germany France, Holland, Belgium, Italy these are the nations liberated by America; Ask the Poles or the Lithuanians or the Czechs how they feel about being “liberated” by Russia.

        Nobody wants to attack Russia; everyone wants the Russians to have a real nation not the failed state — held together with propaganda, fraudulent elections and hate — that Putin has made.

        The Russian empire disintegrated on its own merits. I’m not a big fan of America’s chicken-shit attempts at empire either but lets be real. This is about Putin’s need for an external enemy to conceal his failure to form a nation with a modern economy while he and his KGB mates steal everything that comes out of the ground.

        Putin is a failure; Russia is a failed state.
        Covering that up like cat shit is what this is all about.

        • Cyril Sneer

          Have you bothered to view any of the links I have provided? Have you bothered to ask yourself why the western media, all of them, have not covered these atrocities and why not?

          Syria gave you a clue of the global energy war the US is instigating against Russia, Ukraine was next. Iran and China still to come.

          Russia has already warned the EU of their ever encroaching land grab and that the Ukraine would be a red line. Is it beyond you to put yourselves in the shoes of the Russians to understand that an EU Ukraine along with bases and BMDs presents a clear strategic threat to the security of Russia?

          There could easily be peace in the region if the US and the EU leans on Kiev and pulls their troops back… but they don’t and they won’t.

          • alonzos

            We don’t need to ask these questions because we already know. They are not reporting that crap because they know that most of it is made up Russian propaganda.

            There is an entire website dedicated to verifying claims and part of it is on Russia’s lies in Ukraine, showing pictures purporting to be from Ukraine that were used years ago in different contexts or countries, a picture of a sweet young girl whose picture has been used at least 10 times by Pravda web site for at least 10 different stories an contentions, statements taken out of context and then lied about, stuff about Ukrainians shooting children, killing priests, etc,. It’s amazing, check it out:

            http://www.stopfake.org/en/.com

            I’m sure some of the links that Cyril has provided are discussed on this site.

        • alonzos

          Exactly, no one has been swallowed up. All of the Eastern European former soviet satellite countries (including Ukraine) remember what it was like to be a part of a “Union” dominated by Russia and therefore are running as fast and far away from Putin and his hoped for “Eurasian Union” (which he originally said would be up and running by Jan 1 2015 and would rival the EU and US – and of which Ukraine was intended to be the centerpiece) So far only Belarus and Kazakhstan (other authoritarian or dictator lead govts) have joined, and even they don’t seem too enthusiastic.
          Everyone else is begging to join NATO, the EU, an association agreement, or anything else that will clearly indicate that want absolutely nothing to do with Putin or the Eurasian Union, and they have the right to do so.
          It’s like people that get mad at the other woman or man for “stealing” their wife or husband. people cannot be “stolen” in this way unless they are willing and happy to go . . .

  • Cyril Sneer

    Perhaps I should start posting links to the videos of atrocities committed by the Ukrainian army, I’ll post one to start you off and then you can look at all the other videos in the Liveleak Ukraine section and see for yourselves:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=19b_1406629405

    I repeat, no western media coverage of these atrocities despite the wealth of evidence that civilians are being shelled indiscriminately every day.

  • Cyril Sneer

    The BBC report that seems to have been dropped:

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9d9_1406457811

  • L. Nat Bean

    I’ve found this to be a useful antidote against the ancient manifesto worshiped by today’s liberals and progressives: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094KY878

  • Russia is a bunch of bums, alcoholics, prostitutes, drug addicts, and KGB spies. That is what so-called “Russian world” is about.

    1945 – 1991

    The USSR has made 4 aggressions: one
    suppression of the Berlin revolt in 1953, one suppression of the Hungarian
    revolt in 1956, one suppression of the Prague spring in 1968, and intervention
    against Afghanistan per 1979-1989

    1991 – 2014

    Russia has made 5 aggressions: three
    against Georgia (per 1991-1992, per 1992-93, in 2008), one — against Moldova in
    1992, one — against Ukraine in 2014.

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