Rod Liddle

Two socialist triumphs (one of them for Marine Le Pen)

After the Paris murders, French voters simply did not buy the outpourings of delusional wishful thinking from the liberal authorities

12 December 2015

9:00 AM

12 December 2015

9:00 AM

What a pleasure it was to see two socialist parties triumph in the most recent elections. First, Labour increased its share of the vote in Oldham — and then, last weekend, the Front National became France’s most popular party, securing almost 30 per cent in the first round of the country’s regional elections.

Labour’s win was, I suspect, a bit of a false dawn. For a start, the party did an un-usual thing and fielded a sentient and likeable candidate, something which most of the time it successfully avoids doing. But even then, it was at least partly dependent upon Asian men hauling large sacks of votes from illiterate and non-English-speaking residents into the local post office. The Asian Muslim — largely Bangladeshi — population of Oldham West and Royton is almost 25 per cent, and Ukip estimated the turnout within this sector at a remarkable 90 per cent. That will have helped a bit. As to the absence of the supposed Corbyn factor, my suspicion is that in solidly blue-collar northern constituencies the traditional Labour voters may not like Jezza, but at the moment they don’t find him noticeably more absurd than Ed Miliband. Much of a muchness. Mr Corbyn’s idiocies need time to settle down and mature among the populace before the desertion rate increases still further.

Labour’s healthy win bitterly disappointed many politicians, most of them from within the Parliamentary Labour Party, who had been hoping against hope for a Ukip victory. That was never going to happen in such a ‘diverse’ (i.e., lots of Muslims) constituency. But it was still not quite a stunning victory for a party in opposition at a by–election; Labour continues to lose votes in the north, and especially among the northern working class. It has lost more than four million since 1997 and that trend is continuing.


The Front National is a different bouilloire de poissons. I call them socialist because they are essentially redistributionist, protectionist, statist and interventionist — but given the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the liberal European press, I suppose I should also concede that they possess one or two notions which we might describe as ‘right of centre’. They are for the Christian faith and the family, for example, as was just about every European political party (except for the Commies) pre-1990, but which is a hugely unfashionable position to take these days, even if a very large minority — at the least — of voters in both France and the UK approve. They hold a line on immigration which accords with the views of about 80 per cent of British voters — no more of it, thank you; we’ve had enough. And they have one or two doubts about Islam being an essentially peaceable and assimilable ideology. Yes, yes, I know. It is hard to imagine how they can have formed such an opinion. Shocking. Islamophobia, that’s what I call it. They are also pro-Russian, and adored by Vladimir Putin, which these days probably counts as being right-wing. And they do not like the European Union.

The success of Marine Le Pen’s party is being put down to fallout from the latest Islamic atrocity, the Paris murders. Well, actually, not the latest – there have been plenty more since, in the USA for example and even at one of our underground stations. But the liberals need to employ a bit of double-think here, for this notion to have any legs. These attacks were nothing to do with Islam, we were told — by François Hollande, and the press and our own Prime Minister. The atrocities would not dull our appetites to embrace Islam and Muslims still further, we were assured, because that’s what ‘they’ want — those terrorists who were not merely non-Islamic but actually, come to think of it, anti-Islamic. So let more come in! Let us all hug one another, because that’s what we in the civilised West do at times like this: we light candles, we hug and we spread the love. And that will defeat the nasty men, almost by itself. And we will also refer to the nasty men as Daesh rather than by a term which has the word ‘Islamic’ in it, just to be clear. That, we were assured, is how French people would react to the Paris murders.

But they didn’t, did they? Instead, they voted for the Front National. Despite the odium in which it is held, despite the daily propaganda describing it as racist and divisive and vile, despite its pariah status within the French political system. Still, almost 30 per cent of French people voted FN, more than they did for any other party. They simply did not buy that outpouring of delusional wishful thinking which emanated from the liberal authorities, as it always does — from Hollande to Cameron via Merkel, from Le Monde to the BBC. The voters thought it was rubbish, which it was, and that the terror would only get worse, which it will. In Calais, where there is a Jungle of largely Muslim asylum seekers aching to get into Britain — presumably to be hugged —the FN vote was more than 50 per cent.

The same antipathy to the usual Euro-liberal fatuities has been seen in Denmark, Sweden, Belgium, the Netherlands, Hungary and Poland. The voters have woken up: it is no good any longer simply to hold hands with one another and close our eyes. In some cases the parties on the rise, or even in office, in these countries are genuinely right-wing nationalists. Or they are populists, or like the Front National they are socially conservative socialists. The one thing they have in common is that they are fundamentally anti-Islamic. That is where the votes are coming from – people who have had enough of Islam. It is an irony that the liberals are being vanquished as a consequence of their support for that least liberal of ideologies, Islam. Maybe they will wake up too, when the entire continent has swung to the right.

Got something to add? Join the discussion and comment below.

You might disagree with half of it, but you’ll enjoy reading all of it. Try your first 10 weeks for just $10


Show comments
  • blandings

    “or like the Front National they are socially conservative socialists”

    Good description of me, or a bit of me at any rate.
    Is there an English branch of FN or would that be considered inapproprié?

    • Damaris Tighe

      Hilaire Belloc believed in something called Distributivism. Maybe you could get it started again?

      Hope you’re enjoying retirement.

      • Sue Smith

        Was that the same Belloc who wrote, “Tarantella” –

        “And the tedding and the shredding
        And the straw for a bedding
        And the fleas that tease in the high Pyranees
        And the win that tasted of the tar?”

      • Kennybhoy
      • blandings

        Why not?
        I get to flirt with Catholicism, which is appropriate for a man of my age I think, and I’m sure I’ve copies of The Cruise of the Nona and Cautionary Tales tucked away somewhere, which would be something of start I suppose. I’m under instruction to buy no more books though, as by the time the cats have been catered for there is nowhere left to sit in our cottage.
        I’ve taken to retirement like a duck to water. I tried out a very pretty sports car (amongst other things), but whilst getting in was easy, clawing my way out again wasn’t. Maybe I must take up yoga until I can extricate myself from prone positions without so much difficulty, or maybe I should just accept that I’m too old for sports cars and mistresses.

        • Damaris Tighe

          Hee hee – C & I had a mutual commiseration about cars we couldn’t get out of with dignity a few months ago!

          • blandings

            I guess it’s time for me to join your club.
            At least a girl can play the “Man! – assist me!” card. I can’t.

    • LittleRedRidingHood

      According to most progressives. Anyone not towing the progressive left narrative is basically Naz1 national front. Voice an opinion. You’ll see.

  • John Andrews

    When it has become politically incorrect to support our sovereignty, our religion and our country it is time to clear out Westminster’s Augean Stable.

  • Adam Maguire

    Free higher education for everybody who earns it (rewarding hard work and diligence regardless
    of birth,) a large increase in quality council house development,renationalisation of key industries, a big hike in the redistribution of taxes in favour of the poor, a big boys grown view of global warming and the need (any way) to start investing heavily in cleaner and less wasteful home grown alternatives,
    NHS off limits (basta.)

    Corbyn is apparently in favour of all of the above, and so I guess are the great majority of blue and
    white collar working and middle classes citizens all over the country, Muslim or otherwise.

    My only conundrum then is why you find all of this so unpalatable?

    • The_greyhound

      I believe corbyn is also in favour of motherhood (especially among non-English speaking immigrants) and apple-pie.

      But like his cynical pretence that he wants peaceful solution to the islamic state, it’s devoid of understanding, a system of priority, and practical approaches. The old fool might as well send such a list to Santa Claus, he has so little idea of how to deliver it.

      corbyn was enthusiast for the Chavez way of running a country and an economy : on which the Venezuelan voters have just delivered their devastating judgement. So it’s not a conundrum at all.

    • Derek Lambada

      He may be in favour of those things.
      Unfortunately he is also in favour of other things (like unfettered immigration) that make those things impossible.

      I’m in favour of having lots of money. But I’m also in favour of spending lots of money so I never actually have lots of money.

    • wudyermucuss

      I guess –
      Yes,you do.

  • Arthur Thistlewood

    On Miliband and Corbyn, yes, it’s true that people have not yet found the latter worse then the former. Is the reason for this actually that they are just different types of absurdity and so actually are equally ridiculous?

    The only real difference is that Miliband came from another, far off planet whereas Corbyn comes from this one but forty years ago. One is a displacement of Space, another in Time.

    You choose.

  • Liberanos

    There is a rule of thumb for all those who prefer peace to war, reason to superstition, freedom to slavery, openness to bigotry, kindness to cruelty.
    If Islam Is Against It, I’m For It.

  • BillRees

    I’m another who has some doubts about Islam being a ‘religion of peace’.

    But the Muslims do seem to be good at getting the (postal) vote out.

    How do they manage to do it so well?

    • Rallan

      It’s called biraderi politics, and it’s part of Labour’s transition from the party of the Working Class to a the party of Ethnic Communities. Here’s how it works:

      https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=biraderi%20politics

      • red2black

        Most ethnic communities are working class.

        • Rallan

          So? Do you have a sensible point to make or did you just want to signal your virtue?

          • red2black

            You seem to have divided the working class into two distinct groups. What for? Neither group can achieve anything on its own.

          • Rallan

            You’re an idiot.

          • red2black

            One that knows that most ethnic communities are working class. You either didn’t know that, or you’re saying I’m wrong.
            Which is it?

          • Rallan

            Do you think this is a student debating society? You are an idiot. I am not interested in debating with you because you are an idiot. Your destructive infantile politics are at odds with social reality, and all across the western world liberal mainstream is now in full retreat.

            I don’t care what you think. I have socks I respect more than you.

          • red2black

            Thanks for the confirmation. By the way, I don’t agree with class struggle or race struggle politics, and I certainly don’t belong to the western liberal mainstream. Thanks for your replies.

          • red2black

            If you can bring yourself to read this, you may understand where at least some of the problems lie regarding our indigenous working class:
            ‘Another thing that helps the Japanese keep Muslim immigration to their shores to a minimum is the Japanese attitude toward the employee and employment. Migrant workers are perceived negatively in Japan, because they take the place of Japanese workers. A Japanese employer feels obligated to employ Japanese workers even if it costs much more than it would to employ foreign workers. The traditional connection between an employee and employer in Japan is much stronger than in the West, and the employer and employee feel a mutual commitment to each other: an employer feels obligated to give his employee a livelihood, and the employee feels obligated to give the employer the fruit of his labor. This situation does not encourage the acceptance of foreign workers, whose commitment to the employers is low.’https://themuslimissue.wordpre…

    • post_x_it

      Particularly in this country though, because our electoral system is a joke.
      Are you aware that Bangladesh has a biometric voter identification system? They long ago recognised the potential for (and practice of) fraud, and did something about it.
      In the UK there is no identification required at all. Just stick a random list of names on a form once a year, then turn up at the polling station and give one of those names. Or better still, request a postal vote for each of them. Hey presto!

    • Liberanos

      Allah insisted.

    • milford

      They’re very industrious people and when something’s good for the hive they all muck in.
      Many hands make light work, and they’ve got many, many willing hands among them.

    • Dr. Heath

      Amazing science stories are dealt with by Horizon. Write to BBC2 suggesting an episode be devoted to unravelling this mystery.

  • Fenman

    If you take political spectrum as the shape of a rugby ball and not as a straight line, then clearly the FN is perched at the point , which is why Putin likes them, because his Russia is the same. Either way they are unpleasant extremes, which have been given space to grow because of the brainwashed political class who have ruled Europe for the last 25yrs, and are politically deaf to their electorates.

    • The_greyhound

      How is the FN extreme or unpleasant? It rejects the fashionable, but utterly failed, policy of promoting third world immigration; it’s little different from Labour politics of yore, as Rod suggests. The FN is devoid of Guardian-reading canting hypocrisy, but that is surely a wholesome thing.

      • red2black

        Their policies include such things as: guaranteeing the freedom of women to have abortions; to fight against the use of English in matters relating to standards and patents; refusal of social welfare payments to families without one French parent; doubling the number of police in anti-crime squads; the creation of an alliance between France, Germany and Russia; huge investment in the re-industrialisation of France. In all, there’s enough for the individual voter to regard the FN as being reasonable and extreme at the same time – http://www.france24.com/en/20140528-france-national-front-policy-eu

        • Sue Smith

          Sounds like rather a conflict of interests, doesn’t it.

          • red2black

            I did think France was majority Catholic, buy it’s actually just over half Protestant and quarter Catholic, which softened my surprise at their abortion policy. The idea of re-industrialising when most other countries’ economies are post-industrial sounds a bit odd.

          • turriseburnea

            You are REALLY well-informed…

          • red2black

            Evidently not, but slightly better-informed than I was shortly before you pointed it out.

          • Kennybhoy

            Er what fracking planet are you living on?

          • red2black

            Earth.

  • amicus

    Ninety per cent turnout among “Asians” in Oldham! What a fine example these people set us in terms of public spirit and commitment. It’s all the more impressive when one considers that half of them are women who never set foot out of the house and who do not speak a word of English.

    It shames the rest of us.

    Once again I have to point out that Mr Liddle says things many of us don’t even dare to think without looking over our shoulders first.

    • sir_graphus

      I’m only surprised the turnout in this ethnic group didn’t exceed 100%.

      • flipkipper

        Socialism has outlived itself mate, no matter how much you lefties wish it wasn’t so.
        What we want is race-to-the-bottom unhinged free market capitalism where foreigners take your kids’ jobs, and curiously that is what you’re getting. Now live with it.

        • sir_graphus

          Not been called a leftie before. It’s all relative, I suppose.

        • red2black

          Karl Marx reckoned that Capitalism had to be successful before Socialism could take its place. It seems the Capitalists deliberately screw things up on a regular basis in order to stop such a thing ever happening.

      • CO Jones

        I am reliably informed that a couple of boxes of votes were ditched so as to keep the total below 100%.

      • Gilbert White

        Some muslim countries exceed 100% turnout.

    • Dr. Heath

      The Electoral Commission is rumoured to be investigating corrupt voting practices in Tower Hamlets. Q – Will they find anything? A – Is the Pope Jewish?

      Of course, allowing votes to be ferried from voters’ homes to polling stations by anyone who undertakes to perform this apparently onerous task is fast-tracking the UK towards Banana Republic status. Perhaps the fightback should start now. Tory Party reps could “collect” postal ballots from thousands of blue-rinse ladies in Homes of Repose [and, being the kind-hearted souls they are, do all the box-ticking as well]. In Ireland, I believe, voters are encouraged to vote early and often. Here, the message to many in certain parts of our large towns is to leave the ballots untouched because someone from the m*sq*e or the L****r Party will be popping in to do the fiddly bits.

    • wudyermucuss

      And 95% of those votes were for,well,you don’t need me to tell you.

    • jim

      I do like Rod Liddle…but I think most people are morons.Especially young people.I would like to be optimistic though….and I always feel better having read something by Rod.

      • jjjj

        Twice I’ve thought of what Leo Amery shouted out to Arthur Greenwood on September 2, 1939 (‘speak for England’): Once during Benn the Younger’s speech and again when reading this article.
        What frightens me is the attempt to lower the voting age to 16. God help us all.

        • UKSteve

          The reason for that being, all the brainwashing that takes place in schools and universities.

          These are young people who would have been born even after</b the Maastricht treaty was signed, and everyone tells them how wonderful it is to choose anywhere to work in the EU, and we'll lose that if we leave (we won't, or don't need to!).

          They've been at this for decades, as an attempt at discussion of the Brexit case will tell you with any young person. They stamp their feet and flounce away, with fingers in ears, shouting "La-la-la". .

  • The_greyhound

    Mr Liddle is, I am sorry to say, mistaken

    Lighting candles and hugging one another may well heal the damage caused by the odd Koran-inspired massacre; but only #hashtags will defeat the men of violence.

    Je suis Charles Martel.

  • Robert the Devil

    The problem is the feminisation of western society something which, to me at least, became evident following the death of Princess Diana in 1997, when we were bombarded with a media barrage of sentimental “slop”. Such outpouring of national grief was cleverly exploited, for his own ends, by Tony Blair, who subsequently signed the Human Rights Act, the invoking of which has allowed those who have plotted the downfall of our society to remain here with their families. Such decisions have shown our failure to take decisive and appropriate action when subjected to acts of terrorism, and this failure to do so is simply encouraging further such acts. Candlelight vigils are not the appropriate way to deal with terrorist atrocities; they simply reveal our weakness.

    • Rallan

      But surely when you have a candlelit vigil and a hashtag it makes Islamic State tremble?

      • Dr. Heath

        With laughter.

    • Chamber Pot

      Couldn’t agree more on ‘dianification’ setting off the rot. ‘The people’s Princess’ and all that utter tosh.

      B*ll*cks to kumbaya.

      • Mr B J Mann

        Nope, it was ‘disneyfictionation’

        ‘Bambi-no-ificatio’

        ‘AndwhateverthatrabbitwiththeBRIGHTEYESwascalledification!’

      • Kennybhoy

        It did not set it off, it represented its coming to fruition…

    • Damaris Tighe

      Couldn’t agree more. There is a video doing the rounds taken in the days after the Paris atrocity. A father holds his toddler in his arms. The little boy is asking Papa about what happened & looking at the flowers & candles. ‘They have guns’, says Papa, ‘but [smugly] we have our flowers’. Toddler looks totally bemused at an answer which is completely contrary to common sense. There hasn’t been time for this child to be indoctrinated yet.

      • Dr. Heath

        Flowers beat guns? A sort of “rock, paper, scissors” thing for huggy-wuggy simpletons. I think the Canadians have elected someone like the Papa in your comment as their Great Leader.

        His Mum was soft in the head. It must be something in the genes.

        • Sue Smith

          Or the jeans, depending on your gender preferences.

      • wudyermucuss

        Yes,saw it.
        And the subsequent Lorraine Kelly column calling it heartwarming.

        The child does try though;we witness the inculcation of cognitive dissonance in a minor,deliberately,by a parent.
        Remember,this is happening in millions of homes,to millions of children.

      • Fraziel

        True but to be fair the wee boy was scared and his dad handled it really well. Its how our media interpreted it and used it that was the problem, as i am sure you know.

        • Sue Smith

          Oh no, not another citizen of Toytown!!!

          • Mr B J Mann

            He’s been Bambi-no-fied!

      • Clive

        Kid should have pissed down the father’s arm

      • Sue Smith

        Yes I remember this interview. The child had more intelligence than the father who looked shocked and didn’t know how to respond. People noticed that.

        But in Toytown a parent who is a Noddy acolyte would look shocked. They don’t have a response for any kind of prescient sentiment, especially from a child.

    • Andrew Smith

      Feminization
      or rather infantalization? I knew quite a few women who found the whole circus
      around Diana to be more than a little nauseating.

      • Mr B J Mann

        I’ve just coined a new word for it and in my childish enthusiasm I can’t stop using it:

        Bambi-no-fication!

    • scampy

      Agreed but why Mustafa Jihad and his nutters have not taken out Tony the phony which would be cheered world wide by non head bangers?

    • Sue Smith

      When you’re Noddy in Toytown it is appropriate to hold candle-light vigils. It is also a kind of faux religion too, like “climate change”. So transparent.

  • Frank

    Rod, good article. If you and virtually everyone else in Britain can get it, why can’t our politicians?

    • milford

      They get it alright. They’ve just lying because it;s all part of the plan..What plan? Order out of Chaos. Create chaos so we’ll demand order then roll out the totalitarian nightmare in response to our wanting some order. Oldest trick in the book.

      • King Zog

        “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” – Robert J. Hanlon (‘Hanlon’s Razor’)

        Or, as Heinlein put it in Logic of Empire: “You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity.”

        • milford

          Don’t under-estimate them. They’re not stupid. At all.

          • King Zog

            How do you know? Are you in on it?

          • milford

            Cameron is very clever. From the age of seven, Cameron was educated at two independent schools, due to good academic grades, Cameron entered its top academic class almost two years early. Cameron passed 12 O levels and then studied three A levels. He obtained three ‘A’ grades and a ‘1’ grade in the Scholarship level exam. Cameron began his Ba studies in (PPE) at Brasenose College, His tutor described him as “one of the ablest”students he has taught. Guy Spier who shared tutorials with him, remembers him as an outstanding student. Cameron graduated in 1988 with a first class honours degree. William Hague is also a very clever man.
            They are not stupid at all.

          • King Zog

            I know all of that, thanks. Indeed, Cameron et al are far from stupid. But even very intelligent people make very, very stupid mistakes. Hague, for example, was a brilliant Parliamentarian, but a lousy statesman. And think of the brilliance of Churchill – brilliance which, in multiple scenarios during WWII (and even in peace time) seemed to utterly desert him, resulting in operational failures and miscalculations.

  • zhu jiang

    PC gets even worse on the West Coast of Canada, with climate change deniers and non-recyclers being immolated daily ( honest I wouldn’t lie to you) We seem to have more success with Muslim (and general) integration out here but that’s only because the far-off happenings are a bit surreal to us, almost like watching a movie if you will.
    The chances of a piece like this by Rod getting published or getting air time in ANY media outlet in Canada is zero, as with anything by James Delingpole, so you can see that the PC virus is widespread.
    Now I can’t stand that blustering bully Donald Trump,with his tacky buildings and his bullshit golf courses but …… history sometimes needs a bull in a china shop, someone who does actually get the truth out because they’re not scared to ruffle feathers, and someone who can break down old orders.
    He may be the one who will stop kissing the arses of the Shahs , the Sheikhs and the Mullahs , he may be the one to tell the PC types to turn their attentions to something meaningful, he may be the one who stops governments from giving out money to people for doing nothing, heaven knows, someone’s got to do it .
    We can always kick him out once he’s put things back in order ( beware! Dictators are hard to get rid of). You know, once you strip the engine down in North America, you find that the parts are in good shape,

    • Icebow

      As to Canada (which seems to have bucked the rightward trend), you may or may not have encountered Ezra Levant’s The Rebel site, which arose following the passing of the splendid Sun News.

  • Rbeastlondon

    I have been waiting, in vain, for a newspaper or a tv news station, to do a thorough analysis of the postal vote percentage in the Oldham by-election. I still do not know the figures. Does anyone?

    • Mongo

      There were 7,115 postal votes – 25.6 % of the overall vote

      • According to the daily express this is considerably higher than the national average of postal voting, which at 16% already seems rather high. This difference, nearly 10% is surely suspicious. The response of Andrew Neil to the claims during the coverage was a disgrace – surely he should realise that electoral fraud has to be taken extremely seriously, especially in the wake of Tower Hamlets.

        • Mary Ann

          The Daily Express supports Farage.

      • Mary Ann

        Probably, he comes across as a bad looser.

  • King Zog

    I must say, Marine looks kind of hot in the photo…

    • Icebow

      You should see her niece; well, perhaps you have.

      • King Zog

        I’d actually forgotten about her… but… wow. Just wow

  • scampy

    Referenda across EU asking should muslim immigrants be returned to countries of origin?
    No civilized country wants this uncivilized filth.

  • berosos_bubos

    A lot of these problems stem from the broadcast media. You know what to do – cut those cables! Large corporations are incredibly pc and would always rather sack people at the least sign of a threat to their image and this attitude is mirrored on tv. TV journalists won’t speak out even if they dared.

  • Nick

    Absolutely brilliant article Rod.

  • Sean L

    I read that the total voter turnout for Oldham was 40%. But if the Bangladeshi population constitutes 25% of the electorate, and 90% of them voted en bloc by “post”, they must account for by far the greater part of the Labour vote, since Labour won with a 60% majority, which is 24% of the total electorate… Otherwise what’s the difference between Marine Le Pen and Old Labour, given that Labour were also anti Common Market for the most part? She’s not in bed with organised Labour for one thing; for another, she attracts voters who’d otherwise vote for more traditional parties of the right. So “far right” in modern media parlance pretty much equates to what was considered orthodox Labour for the greater part of its history, prior to the cultural enrichment of recent decades.

    • Mongo

      these days ‘far right’ is a label reserved for anyone who is opposed to mass immigration or critical of the RoP; whether they’re conservatives, socialists or libertarians apparently no longer matters

  • Mongo

    another great piece, Rod – the embrace of Islam by the Left is a truly grotesque, and increasingly baffling, spectacle. But perhaps we should stop conflating ‘Leftists’ with ‘Liberals’

    Pernicious Leftist Cultural Marxists masquerade as champions of social justice, but are in fact enablers and apologists for this most ill-liberal, tyrannical, and heinous of ideologies. These are not liberals – or at least not to those of us who hold our hard-won western liberal values dear

    • Sue Smith

      Absolutely agree with this; very insightful. And this is being talking about more and more amongst the society in general. The useful idiots want to drag us all down with their same-ridden cultural loathing and permissive anti-establishmentism.

      I think of it as Noddy in Toytown. Infantile. Dangerous.

    • Tony

      You got it now, they are the real enemy, they despise everything about us.

      The political liberal elite are the enemy

  • SilasMarner

    Absolutely correct Rod. Brilliant article.

  • Jugurtha

    Disgusting article…plays right into ISIS hands. So so dumb. Don’t you realise Mr Liddle that ISIS only do bad things so that lumpen Neanderthals like you will point and say: “look at the bad things”? Saying “look at the bad things” is, by definition, islamophobic…at least if the perpetrator of the bad thing is Muslim. And, as you know, islamophobia boosts support for ISIS…hence more people doing more bad things and more unenlightened commentators responding with more exclamations of: “look at the bad things”. It’s a vicious circle which you Mr Liddle have failed to break. You have already caused the deaths of several hundreds of thousands of innocent people. When will you stop and think of the lives you are destroying. It’s not even that hard. You can even keep pointing out the bad things but in the ‘good’ way…like this…

    “Look at the bad things…which are a direct consequence of centuries of oppression, destruction and despoliation by a Zionist, white-supremacist patriarchal death cult (aka the ‘West’)”

    Easy isn’t it…and, as a bonus, you’ll get loads of invites to Islington dinner parties.

    • Suzy61

      Ok, let’s look at the good things…..which are?

      • Jugurtha

        More pork for the rest of us?
        Turkish delight?

        • Suzy61

          Which would be ‘good’ if there was a shortage of pork and we all liked Turkish Delight.

          I have nothing against Turkish Delight, it’s OK, but I do object to it being forced down my throat.

          Sums it all up, really.

          • Jugurtha

            Who forces Turkish Delight down your throat? I’d inform the police. I’m certainly no legal expert but I think it’s probably illegal unless it’s consensual.
            And, as it happens I was going to make a bacon sandwich just the other day but there was none in the fridge and so I think your rather speculative assertion on pork availability may be a little optimistic.

          • Suzy61

            Jugurtha – don’t tell me to inform the police ‘service’ …they are the very ones forcing it in my mouth. I keep gagging… but they have no mercy.

            Meanwhile, tonight at Tesco they had ‘Finest quality dry-cured bacon’ on special offer in the bargain bin..but the ‘food-bankers’ beat me to it.

            Early bird catches the worm?

          • Jugurtha

            Don’t worry , I’ve just appraised the IPCC of the situation. Expect the shiftless feckless scoundrels to be ‘otherwise engaged’ at the relevant time next week. There’ll be pork for all. I kinda think keeping open the free-flow of pork is essential…especially in light of the jihadist threat. It’s one of those “you say potato, I say potato” moments. You like following the tenents of Islamism, I like bacon. What you gonna do?
            There’s gotta be compromise. So I get to keep the bacon butty. They get sharia. It’s only fair. Okay…so the missus isn’t in love with the Niquab proposal…but I can sit in the back yard with my top off. Give and take. To me-to you. Did the Chuckle Brothers teach you nothing?

        • Hybird

          The Greeks claim “Turkish Delight” and never refer to it as such. They probably have a point. Who is more likely to have thought up this perfumed sugary treat – a sophisticated advanced civilisation or a nomadic, barbaric tribe from the steppes of Asia?

    • Clive

      …Saying “look at the bad things” is, by definition, islamophobic…at least if the perpetrator of the bad thing is Muslim….

      No it is not.

      Saying ‘look at the bad things’ is perfectly reasonable and pointing out that they are committed by Muslims is also reasonable.

      What is not reasonable is the false syllogism:
      Some Muslims commit atrocities
      The Quran can be interpreted to support their actions
      All Muslims are likely commit atrocities

      A better syllogism would be:
      All atrocities are committed by nutters
      Some nutters make false justifications for their actions (like ‘God told me to do it’ (Peter Sutcliffe))
      All nutters are likely to commit atrocities and many to make false justifications for them

      • global city

        Does that mean that nutters are more likely to be attracted to Islam then? The proportions of active nutters seem to be a tad over-represented in the ROP.

        • Clive

          You could have argued the same thing about Catholicism and the IRA, or the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda – that Christianity attracted nutters.

          Islamist atrocities are relatively recent.

          • Sean L

            Yeah 1500 years isn’t that long ago really. Quite recent in relation to the entirety of human existence.

          • Clive

            If you want to go back that far, the Crusades were atrocities committed by Christians encouraged by the Pope against Muslims .

          • Sean L

            That wasn’t 1500 years ago mate.

          • Clive

            No, it was about 800 years ago. In fact if you go back as far as 1500 years there was no Islam.

          • Sean L

            You’re right, it’s closer to 1400.

          • Clive

            Even less than that – and if you go back over all of that stretch of history you will find a lot of Christian atrocities committed against Muslims and Christians – like the Albigensian Crusade and the Inquisition

          • Sean L

            Clueless mate. Look up Arab or Islamic expansion or conquests in North Africa, Syria etc 14-1500 years ago or thereabouts, beginning early 7th century. There’s no *Christian* parallel. Not least because Christianity is itself foreign to Europe, our native religions having perished. Clearly humans of all stripes kill and main, and for any cause, that’s a given. But Islam is unique as an imperial force; Christianity belongs to no group or place in the way that Islam belongs to Arabs, not just by language, but also in that all its sacred places are in Arabia.

          • Clive

            The majority of Muslims are not Arabs. The largest Muslim country in the world is not in the Middle East.

            You have not heard about the 30 years war; the English Civil War and God knows (tee hee) how many other wars fought for Christian purposes ? One branch of Christianity against another ? Like the Albigensian Crusades.

            The British Empire was spread by Christians with missionaries in tow. Was that a fanatical Christian death cult ?

          • Sean L

            Not unless David Livingstone was a suicide bomber.

          • Kennybhoy

            “The British Empire was spread by Christians with missionaries in tow.”

            Not true actually. British administrators loathed and discouraged missionaries. The gist of your post is fair comment though.

          • turriseburnea

            …all of which is so very relevant to the news of Dec 2015, yeah!

          • Tony

            Right Clive and the reason for the crusades was to protect the Christians from the Islam death cult, the crusades would not have happened if the Middle East Christians were not getting slaughtered.

          • Clive

            Christian pilgrims were being attacked just as travellers all over Europe were. The Pope’s reason for kicking off the Crusades were a lot more oblique than that

            …and the Albigensian Crusade ? What was that for

          • Tony

            If you look at the ancient maps of the Middle East before the death cult arrived, you will see it was mainly Christien but look at the same maps today you will clearly see the advance of the warrior religion/ death cult.

          • Clive

            Someone built an empire which happened to be Muslim

            We built an empire which happened to be Christian – was that an expansionist Christian fanatic death cult ?

          • Tony

            we are so much more sophisticated than they are today Clive, I know who’s side I am on.

          • Gilbert White

            Whatabout the whataboutery?

          • turriseburnea

            …after mohammedans took the Near East in a very kind and peaceful manner, yeah!

          • PaD

            Im reading one right now

          • Mr B J Mann

            Yeah, Catholic:

            Just look at the way Sinn Fein campaigns against ab0rtion and g-y marriage!

            Ooops, no, just a minute:

            They are various sects of Marxist (that’s why they splinter and fight each other too!) that just happened to have sprung mainly from those Irish who hadn’t invaded North Britain and displace the Picts, and renamed it Scots’ Land after themselves, before some of them later returned to Norn Ireland after becoming Protestants.

          • global city

            you have a point… a very strung out one that has had no relevance really since the enlightenment and the 30 years war on the continent….but!

            You are way off the mark with the ‘relatively recent’ assertion, though.

        • Miss Floribunda Rose

          Mad beliefs can cause madness in those who believe, especially if those beliefs have been inculcated in them since childhood. They will then regard their madness as sanity.

          • Hybird

            It doesn’t help when they marry their first cousins for generations.

      • Jugurtha

        Are you seriously claiming that describing things done or said by Muslims as ‘bad’ is not islamophobic? Jesus wept, you really are an inveterate fascist aren’t you? Here’s all you need to know…

        All was well with the world until the white devil-men invented capitalism, racism, misogyny and a host of other forms of oppression. Since then the white patriarchy has basically been gorging itself supported by the continued abuse of Muslims, black people, brown people, yellow people, women of all colours, gay people, trans people, disabled people, fictional people, animals and shopping trolleys. This is gospel. Obviously this has messed up some people’s heads to the point where bad things get done…but it’s all blowback. It’s the evil white man reaping the whirlwind. Don’t you know this? Don’t you watch the BBC? Don’t you read the Guardian? This stuff is established wisdom. It’s pretty much the UK schools’ History curriculum in a nutshell.
        Claiming otherwise isn’t actually a criminal act at present but it certainly paints you a rather lurid shade of fascist.

        • Sean L

          .

          • Jugurtha

            Good point.

          • Jugurtha

            But the prophet (Praise Be Upon Him) was, as the title suggests, a prophet and so he knew what was coming. He decided, in line with military orthodoxy, that attack was the best form of defence. Who knows of the devastation that the white man may have inflicted if the caliphate hadn’t been there to slow his progress?

          • Sean L

            But the white man was far from the scene in the 7th century, the time of the original Arab conquests and colonisation of North Africa and southern Europe. Indeed if Charles Martel hadn’t defeated the Muslim invaders in 8th century France, the chances are the North Europeans, the white man, would be Arab speaking and Islamic just like his North African counterparts. After all Islam and Arabic are no more indigenous to Africa than they are to Europe.

          • Kennybhoy

            🙂 🙂 lol

        • Kennybhoy

          🙂

        • Gilbert White

          Particularly loved the leper’s colonies, everybody fell apart laughing?

        • Clive

          Invective – fascist ?

          Argument ends, invective begins.

          You can make no case so you make insults.

      • PaD

        Clive youre getting really boring now..you must surely know that these killers of the innocent are not nutters…theyre actually sane by their own estimations.
        WTF has Sutcliffe got to do with this conversation?

        • Clive

          Hooray – invective.

          Argument fails, abuse begins.

      • Miss Floribunda Rose

        All Muslims are nutters, but some of them are a bit more nuts than the others.

        • E.I.Cronin

          Please Floribunda, nothing with Islam in it – I’m allergic to nuts. And terrorists.

    • PaD

      Ive yet to read such a completely dumb post as this.
      You e not the sole recipient for the pain of the world..real or imagined..the latter in your case.

      • Jugurtha

        If you’ve yet to read ‘such a completely dumb post’, how do you know what it says? Maybe you should read it then get back to me.
        Also, it would have to be the sole recipient OF the pain of the world. Being the ‘recipient FOR the pain of the world’ implies I take delivery of something or other on behalf of ‘the pain of the world’…whatever that might be. Is it a pub? I used to drink in a bar called ‘The Vale of Sorrow’…or maybe I just imagined it.

        • PaD

          Ive just re-read and owe you an apology for not spotting the obvious satire.
          I own the fact that Im! the dumb one.
          Sorry!
          Vale of Tears reference made me laugh..

        • PaD

          Ive just re-read.
          I owe you an apology sir.
          I was the dumb one not to get the satire in your comment.
          The Vale of Sorrow reference very funny too..!

  • rtj1211

    I’m amazed the Tories haven’t decided to demonise the Muslim electoral trades union – block votes and Union Bosses driving around in plush limousines.

    I’m sure it would be a vote winner……..

  • Clive

    I believe the win in Oldham was a result of Labour votes on elastic snapping back to Labour from Tory after the general election. I believe a lot of Northern voters were worried about a Labour/SNP government and that fear made them vote Tory – the alternative to Labour in government. At a by-election that threat was less visible, although it still exists.

    In the Bangladeshi community in Oldham, family patriarchs probably dictated a good many of the votes, if not actually made them on behalf of their families. The latter case is illegal but insofar as people made their votes under their own free will but with direction from someone else, that’s not illegal. You can do what you like with your vote as long as you do it freely. The aunt of a friend of mine always voted for Reginald Maudling because her budgie was called Reggie.

    I have a good deal of respect for Marine Le Pen but not for Front Nationale policy. I would not vote for an economically protectionist party except in order to leave the EU – and it is not FN policy to leave the EU. Dirigisme is the quintessence of French politics but it does nothing for me. I want a market open to the world.

    Mr Liddle has got FN policy wrong. He said …And they have one or two doubts about Islam being an essentially peaceable and assimilable ideology…. They do not. They have persistently attacked Islamic fundamentalism as has every sane politician. They have not attacked Islam per se.

    Marion Marechal-Le Pen has gone further than her tante Marine http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3349036/The-rising-star-causing-friction-Family-France-s-National-Fresh-faced-25-year-old-eclipsing-aunt-Marine-Le-Pen-sounds-awful-lot-like-infamous-grandfather.html …she said Muslims could only be French ‘if they follow customs and a lifestyle that has been shaped by Greek and Roman influence and 16 centuries of Christianity.’… but that’s no more than a call for integration, which is echoed by politicians all around Europe, including in the UK.

    In fact tante Marine Le Pen has actually been trying to attract Muslims to the FN with some success as reported by mr Liddle’s colleague a few days ago http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-over-the-muslim-vote/
    …Among those who voted for the FN are a small but increasing number of Muslims who see no conflict between their religion and the party’s fierce opposition to Islamism. Marine Le Pen – a far smarter operator than her anti-Semitic father, Jean-Marie, whom she had expelled from the FN earlier this year – has been courting the Muslim vote since she became party leader in January 2011. In her victory speech on Sunday night she called for the French people ‘of all origins’ to vote for the FN in the second round and ‘turn their back on the political class that deceives them’. The message that Marine Le Pen has sought to convey is that her party isn’t opposed to Muslims but to what she has described as the ‘progressive Islamisation of our country’. It’s a message that is winning her votes in the most unlikely of places….

    She is absolutely right. She is on the same page as Nigel Farage who said that my party, UKIP should try to win the hearts and minds of the Muslim population of the UK:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/nigel-farage-after-paris-we-need-to-win-the-hearts-and-minds-of-muslims-in-britain/
    …According to research it is clear that the UK Muslim population are conflicted in their loyalties between loyalty to the UK, its way of life and its institutions and what elements within their organised faith are telling them. This conflict with the UK Muslim population suggests that there is all to play for and we can win the battle of hearts and minds…

    So I am glad the Marine Le Pen’s FN won so much ground. I am not so glad that Labour won Oldham West and Royton, I wish we had. It is not a good sign for future by-elections. I believe UKIP must accentuate the Labour/SNP link in future.

    • Mongo

      I think UKIP need a makeover. Oldham was rigged, but even without the suspicious postal ballots they still wouldn’t have won.

      attempting to win over ‘hearts and minds’ of Muslims is fruitless. UKIP should concentrate on winning over the white working and middle classes who have been betrayed by Labour

      • Clive

        Winning over the ‘hearts and minds’ of Muslims is working for Marine Le Pen. If you can shake off the rhetoric of people like the BNP, Muslims are people with the same concerns as the rest of us.

        http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/12/how-marine-le-pen-is-winning-over-the-muslim-vote/ (my bold)
        …Speaking before the attacks of 13 November, Malek Boutih describedSeine-Saint-Denis as ‘impenetrable’ for Le Pen, and while the Socialists came first in Seine-Saint-Denis in Sunday’s first round of voting, the FN’s share of the vote (54,000 votes in total), increased from 12 percent in the 2010 regional elections to 20 percent . In the 2012 presidential election it was estimated by IFOP, an international polling firm, that 4 percent of Muslims in France voted for Marine Le Pen. In 2014, a confidential report conducted by an association oftrade unions at the time of the council elections found that 8 percent of its Muslim members had voted for the FN. One of the shocks of this particular election was the FN’s victory in a tough district of Marseille with a predominantly North African population. Asked by the media why they had voted for the FN, the residents gave two reasons: rising crime and an unemployment rate of 30 percent….

        • Hybird

          These “Muslims” who vote FN will overwhelmingly be apostates.

          • Clive

            Why ?

    • jjjj

      Yeah…’Greek and Roman’ influence. How revealing that Marechal-Le Pen who is easy on the eye but is brain dead, conveniently forgets the ‘Judeo-Christian ethic’. Oh well, once FN comes to power the Jews had better start packing.

      • Miss Floribunda Rose

        They’ll have to start packing if the FN doesn’t come to power, and Islam does. Political parties may come and go, but if and when Islam takes over, it will be for good.

      • E.I.Cronin

        They’re voting for FN. Marine interviews Jewish media. Valls and Hollande bemoaned the exodus and how France ”would not be France without it’s Jews” while s
        imultaneously presiding over a flood of Mohammedans – as if the 2 processes are somehow unrelated. If I was Jewish in France the last person I would cast my vote for is the Socialists. It would be suicide.

      • Hybird

        She has not conveniently forgotten anything. This is what she said –

        “We are not a land of Islam,” she said at a rally in Toulon. Muslims can be French citizens “only on condition that they bend to the customs and the way of life that Greek, Roman and 16 centuries of Christianity fashioned.”

        BTW – The Jews are already packing – or ( like increasing numbers of gays) are voting for the FN.

  • Tony

    The liberal political elite has to be removed in order to get some sense back into politics but they will cheat and lie to keep the power they have today, how can they continue to have open borders for terrorists but the population of Europe just carry on with life as if it is not happening.

    If it was not already happening you would laugh at the thought of it ever happening.

    • Sue Smith

      Remember the French Revolution and the knuckle-heads who kept wanting power under the guise of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity? It took decades and a major dictator before France finally got it right. Then it went bad again in the more recent past. Now Paris is ruled by liberals like Robespierre!! Yeah, right.

      • Tony

        I think most sociopaths believe they are Liberal.

        • Sue Smith

          This just sends a shiver down my spine. The useful idiots swallow it whole.

        • Clive

          How is a sociopath different from a psychopath ?

          It is a word invented by the socially worthy to suggest that this kind of nutter had a problem with society rather than just having a problem with some individuals who got in his/her way

          • Tony

            They do have a problem with society and not anyone individual, they have to control it, they know what is best for it and it will do what they want it to do no matter what society itself thinks.

            The evidence of this is overwhelming, look at Merkel making a decision to accept any refugees who can make it to Germany, knowing they would have to travel brought numerous borders to reach her, she asked nobody because nobody else counts, the west is riddled with these liberal monsters.

          • Clive

            Sociopath is a politically correct word which means the same as psychopath.

            https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201305/how-spot-sociopath
            …Psychopathy andsociopathy are terms with an intertwined clinical history, and they are now largely used interchangeably. The DSM excludes both, in favor of antisocial personality disorder….

          • Tony

            Thanks Clive but really it doesn’t matter it’s what they are doing that matters.

          • Clive

            Well please then call the fûckers psychopaths, I have no problem with that.

          • Tony

            Steady on Clive you sound like a sociopath

          • Clive

            Well, I didn’t think I sounded all that PC

          • Tony

            Not PC, just a little controlling in regard to what you would like me to write.

          • Clive

            If you mean I’d rather you didn’t write PC stuff, that’s true

            I don’t see that as ‘controlling’ – on the contrary, I see the whole PC agenda as controlling and the use of language is part of that agenda

          • Tony

            After reading your responses Clive I have come to the conclusion that you may have a controlling personality, you have demanded that I do not use the word sociopath because you believe it to be PC, when on the contrary I consider it best describes our current leaders but regardless of who is right and who is wrong the fact is you have no business demanding anything of me or anybody else, with your demand you are showing signs of the very thing you protest about.

          • Clive

            I am protesting about your use of a PC word, no more, no less.

            You are making a straw man argument to justify it.

          • Tony

            But now I feel you will be watching for anything you do not agree with and then you will just have to put me straight on it.
            Do you now see what I mean.

          • Clive

            More straw people.

            I do not like PC language. It intrudes everywhere. Like ‘Progressives’ for left wingers and ‘neo-liberals’ for right wingers

            The word you used simply means the same as psychopath. Where was the need to invent a new word ? You tried to suggest it has a different meaning but it does not. It is a PC way of saying that psychopaths are at variance with society. That is not even true. Many psychopaths do pro-social things. They are dangerous to certain individuals that get in their way.

          • Tony

            So if Merkel has no problem with me particularly but her problem is with the whole population of Europe, then she is a sociopath but if she had a problem with me alone then she is a psychopath but you say she is just a run of the mill psychopath in each case.

            Tell me Clive why do you accept the word psychopath and not the word sociopath are they both not mental health terms that have nothing to do with PC, maybe you are reading to much into it.

          • Clive

            Once again, you are pretending that sociopath and psychopath have different meanings but they do not. The psychological community insist that they do not because they want psychology to be about groups when it is actually about individuals.

            There is no separate word for what you describe as Merkel’s condition. It is a psychologically based pathology whether it applies to one person or a group.

            There was no need to invent another word for these people with abnormal brain chemistry (psychological pathology).

          • Tony

            So the psychological community are wrong and you are right.

          • Clive

            The psychological community agree that the two words mean the same thing

          • Tony

            No what my research has thrown up, it says that they can differ in symptoms and severity.

          • Clive

            Yet you do not cite it.

            What is a ‘social pathology’ then ?

          • Tony

            No idea but am sure you will make sure I get to know.

          • PaD

            Tony not advice but you might save sime psychic energy ignoring Clive..hes just another angry pedant…

          • Tony

            Thanks pad.

          • Clive

            Invective – my favourite. End of argument.

          • red2black

            ‘Social pathology is a concept developed in modern social science to refer both to aspects of social structures and to the behaviors and values attributed to particular social categories. Definitions of social pathology are particular to specific times and reflect the dominant moral concerns of the era.’

          • Clive

            Link ?

            Not that it matters much. ‘Social science’ is an oxymoron.

          • red2black

            Google ‘social pathology definition’ – there’s a link accompanying the top hit.

          • PaD

            Yes ok Clive..but stop demanding that others use only language you approve of…chill out man

          • PaD

            I see what you mean..Cliff has an ego problem.

          • PaD

            I mean Clive!

          • Miss Floribunda Rose

            The ego is always a problem. As Schopenhauer said, the ego would sacrifice the whole universe for an extra moment of life. He also referred to ” the ego and its paltry goals”. All egos represent the same phenomenon, no matter which individual body they appear in. The ego with its paltry wants and needs and goals can never be finally satisfied.

          • Ken

            A sociopath is a socialist psychopath.

          • Kennybhoy

            Nope. The two psychopathologies share traits but they are distinct. The distinction pre-dates the PC cult. The most important difference is that psychopathy is innate while sociopathy is the result of childhood abuse or neglect or even brain injury.

          • vieuxceps2

            ….or education by lefties.

          • Kennybhoy

            Education by lefties is a subset of childhood abuse/neglect. 🙁

      • Mary Ann

        Not yet heard them yelling “off with his head”

        • Kennybhoy

          Err considering the Islamists preferred method of murdering prisoners you might want to rethink this smartarse comment…?

          • Mary Ann

            I think you might be right. ooops

  • Sue Smith

    This evening in Sydney I’ve been listening, via U-tube, of past “Last Night of the Proms” broadcasts – particularly the usual favourites of “Land of Hope and Glory”, “Jerusalem” and “Rule Britannia”. My husband and I both observed that the thousands and thousands of audience members were white English people. We wondered where the immigrants were!! Then I hit upon an idea; wouldn’t it be good to use such music on these occasions as a kind of cross and garlic to force the non-assimilating, cultural deniers back into their coffins so that we could drive a stake through their hearts and return the UK to the great place it once was.

    Not Noddy. Not Toytown. But, hey, a person can dream.

    • Clive
      • Suzy61

        Mmmm….just thinking how I could happily accept a dozen refugees if we could send these goons to Somalia in exchange.

        • Clive

          To be fair, you can usually only get tickets to the Last Night if you have been to at least 5 other Proms, so they probably did their.

          Being Corbynistas at the Proms is hardly surprising. London toffs make up a good deal of his support as you may have heard Mr Liddle complain about. I agree with him in that case. These people make me sick.

          • Dominic Stockford

            London is sinking into a slough of despond. I’m gradually coming to the conclusion that it is time to move away from it.

          • Sue Smith

            And if you venture to Australia it’s more of the same, I’m afraid. Except the dominant culture is rapidly being taken over by Chinese. Though they are our hardest workers, I want them to speak English. But they trenchantly refuse.

            An Asian family we know holidayed in Hong Kong recently and their 3y/o child asked, “Mummy, are we in Chatswood?” (a Sydney suburb).

          • red2black

            “Thai me kangaroo down, sport…”

          • Sue Smith

            Please, don’t mention Rolf Harris. I’ve always thought he was slippery and terribly effeminate.

          • red2black

            The Judge asked Rolf Harris if he did ‘Two Little Boys’ in 1969, but Harris lied and tried to blame Gary Glitter. (arf arf)

          • Sue Smith

            Yes, it’s amazing how tasteless that otherwise quite touching little song has become.

            As I said, I never liked Harris. My husband was amused by his painting and wobble board and lame jokes. I never thought Harris particularly funny or intelligent and the British fascination for him left me bemused. But when I saw him bawling about his father in an interview one time it became evident the man was emotionally unstable. But still dull, not at all intelligent and very narcissistic.

            So, “tie me….down” indeed.

          • red2black

            “Can ya tell wad it is yet?” (tee hee)
            The betrayal of children is unforgivable.

          • Sue Smith

            I think that the problem we now have with cultural marxism/relativism and the erosion of European values has been a consequence of the wholesale destruction of moral authority in the western world, not only with unbridled casino capitalism but the authority of the Church as a bedrock of ethics and morality.

            Through this prism our ‘progressives’ have been able to build up Islam at the expense of our own societies. Immigration per se is not an issue for me; what IS an issue is failure to integrate or show respect to the host nation through learning the language and adapting to the new culture and its values. It would be like inviting a child into the home and telling him/her they could do what they liked – and you can bet they would do just that.

          • red2black

            Well, if things aren’t relative, they’re absolute, so where do we begin? When Jonathan Sacks was the Chief Rabbi, he remarked that the world is a pluralistic place, and to try and make something else of it is folly. Islam seems absolutist to me. I’m inclined to ‘do an Orwell’ and side with the Anarchists.

          • Sue Smith

            I don’t agree about the relativist or absolutist dichotomy. There are lots of grey areas in life and to believe otherwise is straight fundamentalism, IMO.

          • red2black

            I think that’s the point Mr Sacks was making.

          • red2black

            Move to Slough?

          • William Brown

            ..the staging post?

          • red2black

            John Betjeman gave the place a mention.

          • Harry Pond

            You won’t regret it, I did Hammersmith to Suffolk a few years back. Only ever lock the front door when going on holiday.

        • Sue Smith

          You know what – they’d probably accept, beatific smile to boot!!

      • Sue Smith

        Now you’ve completely destroyed “First Night at the Proms” for me. However, I didn’t actually SEE any ‘refugees’ there.

        • Clive

          They probably served the drinks

    • Mary Ann

      My Husband moved to Australia, as soon as he had grown up and could afford it he moved back to the UK, he was fed up with the racist abuse because he was a POM seems a bit ironic as it is actually white Australians who are descended from POMs.

      • Sue Smith

        I know nothing about racial abuse directed towards POMs. They are our favourite people, from my experience.

      • E.I.Cronin

        But Mary Ann – you said he was an eyetie! 🙂 Wogs aren’t Poms.

        • vieuxceps2

          Be fair,Cronin. Eyeties are Wops, not Wogs.

          • E.I.Cronin

            haha – I was tossing up between ‘wops’ or ‘wogs’. The funny things is in Australia wogs call themselves wogs.

    • Gilbert White

      Another anomaly is the Swedish Nobel Lark? I am sure there are strategically placed foreign turnips amongst the swedes but it so hideously white looking. Malmo is not represented?

      • Sue Smith

        “Hideously white”? I’m white and PROUD. Today I watched a Christmas Concert from Vienna, recorded 2008 or 9. It contained all the perennial Christmas Carols and favourites (Vienna Boys’ Choir, Symphony Orch. etc.) and I said to my husband we should ALL, all of us of European origins, sing these carols all together and at the very top of our voices and drive the philistines back to where they came from behind a wall of our singing. Let’s celebrate European culture. It’s my ‘cross and garlic’ to counter Islamic medievalism.

    • E.I.Cronin

      Sue you’ve made my day. Was feeling rather hopeless about it all but thanks for the belly laughs. There is hope! Will stockpile garlic, quality silver crosses and dig around for dear old Dad’s Rule Britannia vinyl (and plenty of stakes).

  • Suzy61

    Sorry to interrupt folks but over at The Guardian they are holding a telethon to raise money for ‘the refugees’. The lefties over there must be the rich ones as they have already donated 750K – any scraps for Cumbria dare we ask? Not even a dry crust?

    Seems Polly and Owen themselves are taking the calls today.

    Anyway, anyone who ever wanted to’ feel good’ and lick Polly Toynbee’s @rse whilst simultaneously throwing money down a drain – well, here’s your chance!

    • Sue Smith

      It’s 1.23am in Sydney and I’m not in the mood to “give generously” to the Guardian. Yesterday there were news reports that the owner was going to pull the plug on the loan to that execrable ‘news’ site. Perhaps that’s what they are really sending the hat around for!! Maybe that was only Guardian Australia. But, a person can dream…

      • Suzy61

        Yes – it puzzles me that given all the refugees are scientists and surgeons they would need our pittances. Ah well, perhaps they will bail out the rag?

      • Mary Ann

        You mean you want there to be only a right wing press, what about freedom of speech?

        • Sue Smith

          I don’t believe I did say that!! I’m just astounded at industrial strength naivete promulgated by the left wing press which is certain to bring us all down!! Many children wouldn’t be that stupid.

        • vieuxceps2

          Mary Ann, lefty destroyed freedom of speech with “hate-laws”. Why bother now?

          • Tzctplus –

            So the only way you would feel free is having the freedom of threatening other people?

            How charming of you.

          • vieuxceps2

            You think freedom of speech is the freedom to threaten other people? How silly of you.Remember Magna Carter,she shall not die in vain!

    • Emmet Krull

      They only managed to raise a total of £400,000 for last year’s charities for the mentally ill. Obviously not as ‘sexy’ as refugees. And mental health doesn’t have Saudi backers.

    • William Brown

      …any scraps for the children in Rotherham either?

  • Ivor MacAdam

    I consider that the Oldham result was engineered to give Mr. Corbyn a false sense of security, to see what genius moves he makes next.

    • Mary Ann

      Well lots of people believe in conspiracy theories

    • vieuxceps2

      Oldham was, I fear, the old “monkey with a red rosette syndrome.” Will it ever be cured?

      • William Brown

        The result in Oldham was “….partly dependent upon Asian men hauling large sacks of votes from illiterate and non-English-speaking residents into the local post office.” Not a lot to do with monkey’s with red rosettes. Most of them don’t even know who Corbyn is.

        • vieuxceps2

          The monkey with a red rosette is a symbol of unthinking socialist voting. I did not have Corbyn in mind,or I would have written a” donkey with a red rosette.”

  • WTF

    Living in the USA I’ve watched with interest the Trump phenomena and its astounding that so many political pundits as well as politicians on the left and right just don’t get it. Trump, like Le Penn understand the Islamic threat. People may view him as a Boris Johnson type figure or a joke but even Clinton admitted this week she no longer finds him funny. Perhaps she’s wetting her knickers that she might be running against him next year ?

    I don’t suppose she does find it funny anymore as by saying exactly what he thinks about immigration & terrorism he has gelled with the majority on the right and a significant number on the left and certainly the middle of the electorate to the dismay of the elite establishment. The analysis of Trump that goes on in political TV programs is staggeringly inane as despite a concerted effort to demonize him from all sides, his support increases, holds for a while and then increases a notch more.

    Paris followed by San Bernardino has put immigration and terrorism at the top of the political agenda in the public’s mind, they are now co-joined twins of major concern. Obama talked bull s*** over fighting IS (or is it work place violence) in Syria and the right have also talked about how to take IS out, but that’s not the real issue. For several weeks now I’ve been saying the real and immediate threat is from home grown terrorism with the enemy who is already among us and Syria is a far lesser threat. Even if we solved Syria, it wont stop home grown terrorism. Finally, and it took San Bernadino to change views, some pundits are finally agreeing with me in that the threat is really at home and that’s where our efforts should be put to cull the extremist Muslims.

    Last night on American TV a moderate Islamic cleric who has been active in slamming home grown Muslim extremists had to ask for protection after clerics from other American Mosques had tacitly issued threats against him. This is the nature of the beast that needs to be fixed, the authorities need to crack down hard on extremist clerics and close Mosques where hate is taught and it will give moderate Muslims a chance to clear their own house. Currently we have deserted them and the jihadists call the shots in the west as well as the Middle East.

    This is what Trump understands and this is what sane people understand that needs to be addressed. This is not the liberal PC rubbish we see from most Democrat politicians and many Republicans politicians as well. That is why Trump is leading the pack !

    • Kennybhoy

      I hear you, but do you think his numbers add up once the field is reduced?

      • WTF

        That depends on events. If here are no more terrorist acts he might be diluted but god forbid if there are more San Bernadinos, his support will rise.

        The only republican who is close to him on rhetoric and numbers is Cruz, as for the rest of the republicans, I think they’ve dragged themselves as close to Trumps position as they want to go. The previous issues over the Mexican border with illegal immigration has been kicked into the long grass now and no one talks about it anymore since that shooting in California.

        As for Clinton, she’s a crafty opportunist but she’s treading a tightrope with her position. She needs Obama to say nothing bad about her so she’s following his immigration & gun control policies for the moment otherwise Obama would come out and slam her whilst endorsing Bernie Saunders. She’s made a very difficult bed for herself and can’t get tough on the immigration/terrorism line whilst she’s not the nominee for president from the Dems. That could change once she’s secured that nomination as she’s a very clever manipulators with no morals.

        As a right wing pundit said over here –

        Whats the difference between Bill & Hillary Clinton ?

        Hillary lies over what she does whilst Bill lies over who he does !

        • Mongo

          I think America will follow the general trend of the rightward swing we’re seeing in Europe, so whoever ends up as Republican nominee will likely be the next POTUS

          in the current climate I don’t think Americans have the stomach for any more left wing lunacy, and especially not a woman president

          • Suzy61

            Especially not a “Clinton’ woman President.

          • Mary Ann

            You think Americans are sexists……. like Muslims.

          • Kennybhoy

            🙂

        • Suzy61

          ‘I did not have sexual relations with that woman!’

          Did he mean Hillary?

          He’s had sexual relations with just about everyone else.

          Mr Hitchens summed them up nicely.

          • Gilbert White

            Bill is so unsure what relations constitute, unlike a golf swing or a really good smoke?

        • Kennybhoy

          Aye, pretty much all sound.

          In respect of your first paragraph, it is a terrible thing that the fate of a great nation and by extension the entire world should lie in the hands of some fecking terrorist… 🙁

          Cruz isnae daft. His response to Trump’s baiting was well measured.

          Nae’ if, buts or coulds about Clinton’s stance post nomination. Abominate her and her man as I do, clever manipulators wae’ nae’ morals can come in handy sometimes… 🙁

          • vieuxceps2

            “wae nae morals”–? I know little of Scots dialect, but surely that should read-“wi’ nae morals” ? I sense that your demotic does not come naturally to you. Is it all an elaborate pretence?

          • Kennybhoy

            “Is it all an elaborate pretence?”

            In a sense yes. Although not an elaborate one. Raised in the Gorbals and Mosspark ( a really nice Glasgow suburban housing scheme). Grammar and private schools. Oxford. Sandhurst. Various other sic’ institutions. My default lifelong register is a faintly accented RP. Back in the day maist weans in the Gorbals were multi-register/dialectal. Anyhoo. Time came it was impossible to tell my origins from my spoken or written English. That bothered me. So of late I make a conscious effort to use just enough dialectal Scots and Wegian to make it clear where I come from. Unless I am speaking to a nationalist of course. They get the full RP.

            Regarding wi’ or wae. In my experience there are at least three ways of pronouncing the English “with” dependent upon where precisely, and I do mean precisely, you hail from. Back in the day there was no correct way of spelling.

          • vieuxceps2

            My question justified, your answer accepted.

  • Augustus

    Talking of two socialists, which of these two is more dangerous? The National Front’s Marine le Pen, or the current High Representative of the European Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, Federica Mogherini, who said recently that: “Islam has its place in our Western society. Islam belongs in Europe. It has a place in the history of Europe, in culture, in our food and most importantly, in Europe’s present and future. Whether you like it or not, that is the reality.”

    No doubt, as a member of the Party of European Socialists, had she been around thirty years ago, she would have said that Communism also had a past, present and future place in Europe. Naturally, according to her, Europe has to spend more money on Muslim immigrants and help them fight unemployment, then everything will be alright. A Marxist sees only a single cause for human misery: economic mismanagement. And, typically for the EU, it now has an authentic diversity-loving Marxist as its main foreign affairs spokesperson.

    • Mark

      Federica Mogherinis statement is breathtaking in its sheer mendacity.

      The history of Europe is scarred by its encounter with Muslim invaders from the Maghreb into Iberia and France, turned back after centuries of struggle, then there is the encounter with the Ottomans, again, centuries of struggle in the Balkans and the Aegean to remove Islamic slavers, supremacists and colonial oppressors. Muslim Corsairs operating out of Algiers took thousands of slaves from the south west of England and Ireland.

      And what do our decadent fools of “leaders” do after colonialism, after 2 world wars and after the struggles against Islam ?

      Yes, that’s right, they invite this 7th century, unreformed religious group back into Europe, and draw up laws to allow its influence to increase incrementally whilst simultaneously encouraging social policies that have reduced the indigenous population to below the rate of reproduction needed to sustain our societies, and disadvantaged our own Christian cultural inheritance.

      Why?

      • Tony

        I don’t know why but with the sheer hard faceness they are doing it makes me think the European people need to rise up now and be counted otherwise the future will be full of segregation and strife. We have to stop them instead of talking about it.

      • Johnny Foreigner

        They’ll win this time. Using our laws, sucking on our welfare, using the Liberal Progressive elite to protect them, the cowed PC public will acquiesce, pressured constantly by the state and media. Bit by bit, they’ve got all the time in the world.

        • Hybird

          Don’t be such a defeatist. They won’t win. We have not yet begun to fight and the signs are that Europe (even the Swedes) is waking up and getting angry. And when Europeans get angry, things tend to get really messy. Think about it – if our leaders wanted it to happen, Islam would cease to exist tomorrow.

          • Johnny Foreigner

            The amount of times, I hear the defeatist tag.
            Question: Just suppose, a changing attitudinal wind across the whole of Europe blows (Fantasy I know), the Muslims had reached numbers unmanageable and they started to push back in numbers, using violence and political influence. What are the Liberal Progressive elite going to do? Lock them all up (Ha)? Deport them in their millions (Ha)? Where to? They are continually growing in number unabated, by migration and breeding, all at the expense of the welfare state.

          • trobrianders

            When change happens it happens fast. Hardly time to react at all. Change will happen as European peoples abandon woolly intellect and revert to instinct

          • E.I.Cronin

            War. It’s inevitable. Within 20 years.
            The progressives will either be crushed after Islam prevails or by us in victory.

          • Johnny Foreigner

            Bollox.

          • E.I.Cronin

            There are enough bitter divisions and outbreaks of violence in monocultures but an overarching unity is still possible. Extreme cultural and religious diversity magnifies the potential for conflict. Have a look at the number of civil wars in Africa – it’s a nightmare of diversity and while religion is only one factor it’s a powerful catalyst for violence.

            As Generation Identitaire point out a multicultural society is multi-confrontational. Every society that has adopted MC policy is balkanising along ethnic lines. Combine lack of democracy, economic downturn and the collapse of border control. What are the real figures for the 800k Merkel accepted – with family reunion visas it will be millions?

            I hope you’re right and a peaceable solution is found, but given Islam’s eternal war against the world I can’t see any other outcome.

          • Johnny Foreigner

            1.Balkanization will continue.
            2. The killing of non-muslims will continue for tens of years.
            3. The state will do everything in its power to prevent the indigenous population from arming themselves. The main reason for this is to prevent the plebs from turning on the state (see French Revolution).
            4. There will be a continuing persecution of the Jews, perhaps worse.
            5. Any of the smaller EU countries, that start to fail, will be propped up by the other members.
            6. Long term managed decline is the future.
            7. Personal freedoms will continue to be curtailed, a bit at a time, with the eventual introduction of ID cards and everyone being bio-metrically processed.
            8. Mass surveillance of whole cities will take place, where the Govt will have a record of you leaving home for work in the morning, then everywhere you visited, after that. Every day, everyone.

          • E.I.Cronin

            I agree with much of what you say. I still believe conflict is inevitable – such volatile, unstable circumstances guarantee it will break out soon. We’ll just have to wait and see. It’s deeply unsettling watching from the distant sidelines from the Antipodes (we have the same troubles to some extent) but must be intense living in the midst of it. Take care.

          • Hybird

            The wind is changing and every Muslim atrocity makes it stronger. Marine Le Pen (or if they kill her, Marion) will become President of France. Geert Wilders will become PM of the Netherlands. Jimmie Akesson the PM of Sweden – and the Eastern Europeans – who have never gone in for national suicide – will be their allies.
            The Liberal elite will either shut up or flee. Some will obviously be arrested for treason. Where will the Muslims be deported to? Why, back to where they belong, of course – Africa and Asia.

            By the way – It’s no wonder you are always hearing the defeatist tag – what else do you expect when you are a defeatist.

          • Johnny Foreigner

            I dunno what games console your using, but I wanna buy the game your playing and immerse myself in that fantasy world. FFS, you’re even talking about the potential assassination of one the parties leaders. Just deport them to Asia and Africa, yea, that’ll work. There will always be a corner for you sit and a bottle of Mogadon for you to take, I’ll let you know when to wake up.

          • Hybird

            Pim Fortuyn was assassinated. Austria’s Haider died under very suspicious circumstances. Marine Le Pen has already survived an assassination attempt directed at her father. Unless she is very careful, someone will try again. Now, the French were deported en masse from Algeria and millions of Germans were deported from what is now the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and Russia – and you think we can’t deport Muslims from Europe?

            I respectfully suggest that it’s you who needs to wake up – and soon. If everyone was like you, it really would be too late – but (thank god!) everyone is not like you.

            By the way – I don’t have a games console. What do you recommend?

          • E.I.Cronin

            Agreed. Bulgaria periodically deported Turks after a long history of militant strife and ethnic tension. Their national revival after centuries of Ottoman rule is an inspiration. Many returned after Zhivkov’s regime collapsed unfortunately. I wonder if Bulgarians are now regretting their adoption of multicultural policy and allowing Turkish minorities to assert their separate identity with the migrant crisis and a hardline Sunni militant dismantling Ataturks’ legacy?

          • Kennybhoy

            “And when Europeans get angry, things tend to get really messy.”

            Indeed they do. Monsters from the Id.

            Wot sort of uniform do you think the volunteer militia should wear?

          • vieuxceps2

            What uniform? anything but jihadi-black I suppose.

          • Kennybhoy

            “What uniform?”

            Semi private, not very funny joke… 🙁

        • vieuxceps2

          “the cowed PC public”-Nail,hammer. head.Birthrates and arithmetic lead inexorably to the end of our Europe. Why are we so supine? Who or what has caused this and for what purpose?

      • Augustus

        Because Europe has been so busy creating a multicultural ideology it has itself become a form of centralized statist religion. It’s a multicultural ideology based on the belief that the best and most ideal society can only be a multicultural society, and one that must be realized at all costs. So enter people like Federica Mogherini, an Italian former youth communist who graduated studying the relationship between religion and politics in Islam. So-called progressives like her will destroy Europe’s traditional values. God help EU citizens if there’s no alternative for them but to look on while willing agents of political Islam like her say things like “I am not afraid to say that political Islam should be part of the (European) picture…”

        Europe will never conquer jihadism by accommodating political Islam.

      • vieuxceps2

        Why indeed? My question as well. Has anyone any explanation?

      • PaD

        Why? That question should be put to Peter Sutherland head of UNGlobal Migration…his suggestions on homogeneity very revealing.
        And scary as f…k!

      • Harry Pond

        It goes without saying that the problem is growing at an incremental rate with idiots from the two main parties squabbling over the 3 million votes.

    • Hybird

      Islam does have “a place in the history of Europe” as the quisling woman says – it has actually been attempting to conquer Europe for 1400 years. However, in all that time Europe never had leaders who invited the enemy in. Spain,Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Portugal etc fought for centuries to free themselves from Islam’s yoke.
      Europe’s heroes must all be spinning in their graves – Charles Martel, Charlemagne, Richard the Lion-Heart, Frederick Barbarossa, El Cid, Vlad Tepes, John III Sobieski etc etc etc. They all took the battle to the Muslims. Today, our leaders grovel to the invaders and prevent Europeans even calling the invaders rude names as more and more of their territory is given away without a fight.

      • E.I.Cronin

        Great comment. Not one ahistorical, deracinated and culturally cleansed progressive would be aware of the blood Europeans shed to drive back an implacable enemy.

        • red2black

          I don’t think most people know much, if anything, about those European heroes. In more recent times we seem to have spent a lot of time fighting amongst ourselves, including two world wars.

          • E.I.Cronin

            ‘Triumph of the Airheads’ quotes a Big Brother contestant who was unaware Germany was involved in WW2!

          • red2black

            Mein Gott… Das Geheimnis ist gelüftet!

  • PaD

    Excellent article Rod..these things need to be said.
    One ever so slight grouch is your use of the americanism ‘blue collar’ to describe working class..Granted you arent tbe only one who uses it…just really wish you and they wouldnt..especially as the quality of your written English as we in UK know it is very high.

    • Hagen vanTronje

      “”One ever so slight grouch is your use of the americanism ‘blue collar’ to describe working class””

      I doubt it is purely an Americanized phrase, ‘Bleu de Travail’, has been the common description of working attire in France for quite a while now.

  • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

    One thing common between the Paris killing and the California killing is that both places have some of the world’s strictest gun control laws. It makes the victims defenseless and too easy to kill like sheep. No one could defend themselves under such a case. the police, security, army were not there when these places were attacked.

    • Johnny Foreigner

      You can be assured of one thing in the future, the state prefers your death and hundreds of others, rather than allow you to protect yourself with any form of weaponry. If some do eventually break out of the PC cowed mindset, by arming themselves, the state will come down very, very hard, handing down punitive prison tariffs. The public will never be given the means to threaten the state, ever.

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        You are just wrong
        The US guaranteed this right in our 2nd amendment to legally own guns regardless of the police, or the military. the US is one of the first nation states to give this right to her citizens-

        -Israel too allows this right to her citizens regardless of the police and the army

        -One of the first acts of the Nationalist Socialist party of Germany, in the 1940’s., was to pass a law banning the right of Germans to bear guns. That made it easier to herd them to death camps. the exception being the “Warsaw Ghetto uprising” when a handful of people held back the Gestapo with guns they managed to smuggle

        -Anti Gun advocates always point to Europe….when she is at peace, and not when Paris was attacked.

        -Right now we are arming the Syrians to take on Damascus because the Syrians do not have that right. Due to that we do not even know where those guns are going.

        -The US has armed many civilians in many nations when they had to fight their own government or some militant force. then anti gun advocates go silent.

        • Johnny Foreigner

          How was I supposed to know you’re an American? This website is hosted in the UK, The Spectator magazine, is sold in the UK. The context of my post, was in reference to the UK state.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Yes but the Spectator appears in my home in the US. it has a world wide audience, unlike “The Scotsman” the Spectator’s forum is not limited to Scotland

            anyway what difference does that make when your entire comment was stated in the third person ‘the state” which could apply to any government. You did not clearly state that your comment only referred to London. You ended your comment with “The public will never be given the means to threaten the state, ever.”

            That is what caused me to react with my comment.

          • Gilbert White

            He is an ethnic Abraham’s Peak , World’s View, Sri Lankan who will report you to the FBI at the drop of a hat.

          • UKSteve

            Pray, what is an “ethnic Abraham’s Peak”?

          • UKSteve

            The Speccie and Telegraph websites are over-run with them, mostly at weekends, and in many cases, embarrassingly clueless or mega-trolling specimens.

          • red2black

            Americans always struggle with spelling. ‘Defenseless’, rather than ‘defenceless’ for example, as in Mr Wijeyasingha’s original comment. (tee hee)

          • UKSteve

            That’s the correct spelling (Defense). It’s American English, not British English.

          • red2black

            I know. Tongue in cheek…

        • UKSteve

          Yet more nonsense; I wish the SPeccie would geo-block.

          You’re comparing “European gun laws” (whatever tehy are) with Israel (which has mandatory national service and liberal gun ownership laws) and Syria, which is in civil war? I’ve seen it all now.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Maybe you do have a point and the Spectator should be constrained to England and not to the world. People like you cannot handle commenters from across the world.

          • UKSteve

            And even in a 3-line reply, we see more.

            Perfectly happy to Disqus with anyone from anywhere with any views, but <b.not:

            a) trolls of any origin
            b) Americans (or anyone else) that invade every forum with ridiculous statements that can’t then be backed up with proper facts, e.g.

            i) “The UK has a higher crime rate than the USA”
            ii) “All problems can be solved – especially acts of terrorism, by arming everyone”
            iii) “Obama is destroying America with his secret Muslim pals”
            iv) “We’ll all be killed in our beds by raving unless we arm ourselves.”

            etc., etc.

            Th thread title was about recent elections: “Two Socialist triumphs – one of them for Marine le Pen.”

            No mention of guns anywhere.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Dealing just with Americans since I am one and really cannot speak about “anyone else”

            We Americans invented the
            computer
            computer chip
            Internet
            Internet engines
            Maybe that is just a few reasons “Americans are in every forum”. If you see that as an “invasion” then deal with it.

          • red2black

            Charles Babbage, an English mechanical engineer and polymath, originated the concept of a programmable computer. Considered the ‘father of the computer’, he conceptualized and invented the first mechanical computer in the early 19th century.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Just got your comment
            Aryabhata (467-550 A.D) not only stated the world was round but calculated its circumference to around 25 thousand miles. He also proved that the world revolved on its axis, revolved around the sun and much more. Google that
            Hindu India also gave the world the placement of the zero as a mathematical number, negative numbers, Fractionals, the numerical system (1 to 9),
            But the problem is that these discoveries and inventions did not transform India or catapult her into any kind of age of industrialization
            The Chinese almost got into the age of Industrialization but a Mandarin put a stop to it

            Only when the concept of the zero as a mathematical placement and the numerical system came to Europe did that make a difference to the world
            China too had a rudimentary concept of a computer. I believe you can google that too,’
            the “American Age” (outside of the inventions and discoveries of the old world including that of Europe) transformed the modern world.
            Charles Babbage may hold the title of being the “father of the computer” but like that of Hindu India and her

            numerical system
            placement of the zero
            Chess,
            and so much more did not then go about making India the center of her discoveries and inventions.. it is a fine line that separates so many great inventions and discoveries from Ancient Egypt to Ancient India , Ancient China etc. to the modern world and what it took.

          • red2black

            A team effort.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            I do not know what you mean by “team effort” but what I meant is that inventions and discoveries do not change anything. it is the capacity of a culture to take that invention or discovery and do something with it.
            Another example the wheel was not used by the Mayan, Aztec, Inca, Olmec and the tribes of the new world. the tribes of North America ate the indigenous horse into extinction. Only when the Europeans brought the horse were they adopted by the native Americans.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            I do not remember his name but during the Roman Empire a Roman invented the steam engine. It was used for novelty reasons and well before the English Industrial age. but that invention did not transform Rome
            Rome also invented Cement or liquid rock and that did transform Rome and the Roman Empire. then it got lost when the Roman Empire collapsed in 444 AD. until it was rediscovered in the 19th century.

        • Hagen vanTronje

          A Good riposte Sir !

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Thank you Hagen

    • Woman In White

      One thing common between the Paris killing and the California killing is that both places have some of the world’s strictest gun control laws

      Well done for demonstrating your typical crass ignorance.

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        Oh you, the woman in white “rags”. and the one who loooves Headstrong. coming from you it is a complement.

  • grimm

    Perhaps we are witnessing the well deserved demise of bland, managerial, middle ground politics.

    With Corbyn and his crew in charge of the Labour party the far Left are showing their true colours. We now no for certain that they sympathise with terrorist organisations as see no need to deny it.

    Meanwhile in America Donald Trump is expressing right wing views we all thought were so extreme as to be forbidden.

    The sheer dishonesty of slimy, media friendly, managerial politics has created a cauldron of public frustration which is rapidly coming to the boil.

    • Hybird

      Corbyn calling for bail to be given to Somali immigrant scammers targeting OAPs was the absolute pits. I seriously think there has to be something mentally wrong with him.

    • Neil Saunders

      The irony being that this “middle ground” is actually a fusion of two extremes: neoliberal economics and culturally Marxist political correctness.

  • Woman In White

    This form idiotic politicised hagiography of Le Pen is utterly ignorant of the fact that her party is completely incompetent in even the most basic matters of ordinary governance.

    The FN isn’t “UKIP en français” — they’re like the BNP.

    • Hybird

      If they can stop France becoming an Islamic Republic – and no other party will even try – who cares?

    • Kennybhoy

      No they are “…socially conservative socialists” according tae’ oor Rod! 🙂

      Monsters from the Id! 🙁

    • UKSteve

      LOL! UKIP IS the BNP now, or haven’t you read any of their “activists” outpourings on line? The BNP, after Griffin on Question Time, caimed nearly 20,000 members, now it’s thought they have about 500.

      UKIP also “unoficially relaxed” their ban on BNP membership, according ot one poster in Disqus.

      As for the FN, good luck to them, if only for the reason that the BBC and the rest of the crappy broadcast media in this country keep referring to it as “the far right FN….”

      • MikeF

        Here is the link to UKIP’s online membership application page:

        http://join.ukip.org/JoinOnline.aspx?type=1
        The proscription on past or present membership of the BNP seems pretty official and far from relaxed.

        • UKSteve

          Thanks for the link, which I read. My footie mates (members) tell me my suspicions are spot in.

          Also:

          http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/apr/25/some-ukip-candidates-possible-bnp-members

          • MikeF

            Nothing there to indicate a ‘relaxed’ attitude on Nigel Farage’s part – simply an admission that at the time UKIP did not have the resources to implement stringent vetting. That time was also nearly three years ago.

          • UKSteve

            As meaningless as it gets, and you know it.

            If they are genuine ‘kippers on here ,they come across as BNP Lite.

            And why is it that no-one (left) in UKIP knows what a “policy” is?

          • MikeF

            Something from the Guardian nearly three years ago is pertinent? And you believe it?

          • UKSteve

            It may or may not be. In this case it is, as, I understand it from excellent sources, UKIP is also haemorrhaging members to the Conservatives.

    • Hagen vanTronje

      “”This form idiotic politicised hagiography of Le Pen is utterly ignorant
      of the fact that her party is completely incompetent in even the most
      basic matters of ordinary governance.””

      Just like the UK Labour Party then !

      • UKSteve

        …..and UKIP.

  • gerronwithit

    Never mind COP21 has been a rip roaring success – the BBC and the politicians have told us so.

  • David Prentice

    How many times did dear, deceased “Uncle Rav” manage to tick a box on a postal vote?

    • red2black

      Three so far…

  • Doug

    The multi-culti Frankfurt school nonsense is being rejected across Europe, and things are moving fast. The New/Alt Right is rising and we’re about to witness a cultural upheaval those on the left can’t even begin to imagine.

  • antoncheckout

    “in solidly blue-collar northern constituencies the traditional Labour voters may not like Jezza”

    According to canvassers of all parties in Oldham, few of those who professed to vote Labour had even heard of Corbyn.

  • zhu jiang

    Would it be too much to expect one of our non-terrorist Muslims to come out of the crowd, maybe someone named Martin Luther Mohammed,and reform Islam to reflect modern day life?

    Even the Christians realised (ever so slowly I might add) that religious beliefs have to move with the times.It’s not impossible for Islam ,even though their system is so ossified.

    It seems trite to say it but not one of the people who formulated the religion is left on the earth today and in about 120 years or so there won’t be even one of the current lot left,( nor anyone else for that matter), given that people tend to die after a long time here.

    Society only distills a person capable of such change every couple of generations, can we pray for one to surface in our lifetime?

    • Callipygian

      It’s not impossible, but you will have to light a fire under their arses first.

      • HP

        and a sprinkling of Brimstone, naturally………

    • Red

      Mo was way ahead of you on that one – he wrote in the Koran that it cannot be altered in any way – which is why not one Muslim ever comes forward to condemn anything ISIS does because they are simply carrying out the requirements of the Koran!

      • red2black

        Mohammad didn’t write anything in the Koran. There was no written version of it until after his death.

        • Neil Saunders

          Pedant alert!

          Literally true, but beside the point.

          • red2black

            I think it’s very much to the point. Who wrote it? It seems to have been compiled from various writings on clay tablets, bones, foliage etc. There’s nothing pedantic about a claim that a religious book is The Word of God. Or do we just accept that it is?

          • Neil Saunders

            It’s beside the point in the present discussion. The tradition is that the Koran is the infallible word of God, dictated to the Prophet, Mohammed, by the Archangel Jibreel (or Gabriel) in a series of revelations occurring over a period of perhaps fifteen or twenty years. How, where, when and why it was set down in writing, although undeniably important in a broader context, is not germane to the discussion here.

            Two things are important here: 1) That it comes, purportedly, directly from God Himself; 2) That it is supposedly infallible.

          • red2black

            ‘It’s in the Bible, so it must be true’ kind of thing. Purportedly and supposedly seem to suggest that you doubt what’s claimed.
            Barbara Thiering reckoned that angels and archangels are ranks in the Jewish priesthood (?) The important thing is that we are struggling to deal with people who believe that it does come directly from God, and that as such, it’s infallible; and they are prepared to murder people who disagree.

          • Neil Saunders

            Quite. I’m an atheist. In the context of Islam (or any other religion) it’s not a matter of what I believe, but of what they do.

          • red2black

            That’s right, but political creeds sometimes serve as surrogate religions, often with the same consequences.

          • Neil Saunders

            Again, I agree.

          • UKSteve

            Exactly. Nice one!

          • red2black

            Thanks. The other side of the coin seems to be that real events are recorded in Scripture, however fantastical they may appear. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah has been shown to be the result of an airburst, similar to a nuclear explosion, caused by a disintegrating meteorite entering the Earth’s atmosphere.

          • UKSteve

            Hmmmm….do you have a source for that?

          • red2black

            A few months ago I watched a TV programme about it –
            I think it was on the Yesterday channel, the basis of which (after an online search), was a book called ‘Discovering the City of Sodom’ by Dr. Steven Collins and Dr. Latayne Scott.

      • Nick McBain

        Wrong, IMHO and with respect you need to know what a ‘hadith’ is and where the Koran came from: read ‘Misquoting Muhammad’

    • Augustus

      Islam can’t be ‘reformed’ in the way you infer because it is based on the legacy of the prophet of Islam. Islamic terror can’t be stamped out completely either because, like cancer, it is a multi-phased militant malignancy able to spread within Islamic enclaves. After immigrating, unifying and becoming powerful enough it attacks the infidel, killing him or forcing him to convert. An evil doctrine of pillage, burning of churches, rape, murder and beheadings. And while the West feverishly tries to impose its own brand of Islam on itself its Islamic enclaves will grow, and the lethal work of those who practice the way of submission and surrender to Allah will become the accepted traditional teachings. and long before 120 years have past the Islamic Union of Europe will be a reality.

      • zhu jiang

        So it looks as if the solution has to come from the good guys! Find some DNA from King Ferdinand and let the scientists do the rest!

  • Callipygian

    Based on this description, I see no more reason to like the Front National than I like the American Democrats. I hate socialism in all its forms and I will live to my dying day as a supporter and embodiment of the Enlightenment — John Locke’s 21st-century love-child, if you will.

    America and Britain: we do Liberty best. We do it from the heart, without strings. We do it from reason, with the whole weight and experience of humanity proving us right.

    You lose this, people, and you will never see this happiness again.

    A REPUBLICAN FOR PRESIDENT, 2016!

    [Hint: Not Trump]

    • Cobbett

      Your so-called ‘freedom’ won’t count for sh*t when Europe is buried under Afro-Asian immigration(invasion)…I couldn’t care less about America.

    • sidor

      What is your problem with FN and Trump? Are you afraid that the Moslem immigration to will be reduced? Prefer Sharia laws as “embodiment of the Enlightenment”?

    • SocratesWept

      The word liberty is rarely used in Britain. We traded liberty for ‘security’, the welfare state and nanny government. I don’t think many British know what real liberty means.
      The US however has a long tradition of liberty which was a central part of its foundation.
      Those in the US who seek to extinguish liberty will use the same ‘welfare and security’ tactics to further their NWO regime.

  • Dryermartinithanyours

    Another clear and incisive piece from a true classic liberal, who saw this outcome – the shift to the far right in the absence of a sensible timely response by our cowed and cowardly leaders – way, way in advance.

  • Pacificweather

    Don’t listen to those, Rod, who say you are pandering to your readers’s prejudices even though they don’t read the advertising or buy the magazine. Yours is the true path if right wing journalism.

  • Cobbett

    I call them socialist because they are essentially redistributionist, protectionist, statist and interventionist”
    You can either have the Nation serve the economy or the economy serve the Nation. I prefer the latter.

    • red2black

      So to a greater or lesser degree, all economies are socialist?

  • Bobby Mac

    You’re wide of the mark here, Rod. While anti-immigrant sentiment has always been part of the NF’s appeal, what concerns their supporters most is a belief that they have been marginalised economically by the ‘Paris elite’. They have much in common with UKIP supporters, but also those Northern working-class voters who have deserted the Labour party. And whose to say they’re wrong about the indifference of both the traditional Left and Right?

  • Ipsidixit

    After the Mongols had spread from the East ravaged almost the entire West, both Christian and Mohammedan, killing countless millions of people and wiping out who knows how many ethnic groups, the Khan finally decided to call it a day. One of his most important decisions was which religion would be best to reinforce his power and vindicate his barbaric philosophy. He sent out noblemen to study Christianity and Islam. Unsurprisingly perhaps, he decided that Islam would best suit his purposes so that’s the religion he adopted for his empire.

  • Sean L

    On that basis the landowners of the 19th century and the Conservative Party that represented their interests, Lord Liverpool and the Duke of Wellington etc were socialist. Besides, we already have a massively ‘interventionist’ state or ‘socialist’ sector. The railways for instance get more state subsidy today than they ever did in the days of British Rail. To that extent *all* political parties are ‘socialist’. The identification of the right in politics with economic liberalism is of very recent vintage. The real dividing line in politics is one’s ultimate allegiance, compared to which matters of economic policy are transient. In his excellent recent novel Michel Houllebecq depicts a future France where an Islamic faction have taken power. They’re happy to cede control over economic policy to their rivals. All they want is total power over the education system for children – they intend privatising all education for the over 14s – quite a good idea really. But it’s woefully misconceived to define what’s at stake in politics purely or even principally in terms of economic policies. That already presupposes the question of allegiance as settled. When in our case it’s precisely what’s at issue, and the FN’s raison d’etre.

  • Bring Back Free Speech

    The terms left and right are becoming obsolete. It is a matter of those supporting total govt versus those of us who wish to maintain our culture and our freedoms. The term ‘far right’ which the MSM likes to use to slur those who don’t want to see our European culture demographically and politically destroyed shows how much totalitarian bully boys are holding power these days.

    • Neil Saunders

      And yet these totalitarian bully boys – who fuse loony-left PC (in the social and cultural sphere) with hard-right neoliberalism (in economics) and neoconservatism (in foreign affairs) – pretend to occupy the “centre ground”, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being an “extremist”.

      • Bring Back Free Speech

        I agree they label anyone who disagrees with them an extremist. I don’t like the label neoconservative as I don’t think there is anything conservative about utopian empire-building and leaving a vacuum in place of strong – if heavily flawed- leaders. Ditto I think this govt’s agenda is heavily socialist rather than hardline neoliberal – high tax, high spend, high immigration It’s just that international business who fund the Conservatives have now been sold on ‘no borders’ – they can use it to lower wages and avoid tax. ect: Re: Comment on Two socialist triumphs (one of them for Marine Le Pen)From: notifications@disqus.net To: alicecsmith@hotmail.co.uk
        Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 21:41:06 +0000

        “And yet these totalitarian bully boys – who fuse loony-left PC (in the social and cultural sphere) with hard-right neoliberalism (in economics) and neoconservatism (in foreign affairs) – pretend to occupy the “centre ground”, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being an “extremist”.”

        Settings

        A new comment was posted on The Spectator

        Neil Saunders

        And yet these totalitarian bully boys – who fuse loony-left PC (in the social and cultural sphere) with hard-right neoliberalism (in economics) and neoconservatism (in foreign affairs) – pretend to occupy the “centre ground”, and accuse anyone who disagrees with them of being an “extremist”.

        4:41 p.m., Thursday Dec. 17

        |

        Other comments by Neil Saunders

        Reply

        to Neil Saunders

        Neil Saunders’s comment is in reply to

        Bring Back Free Speech:

        The terms left and right are becoming obsolete. It is a matter of those supporting total govt versus those of us who wish to maintain … Read more

        You’re receiving this message because you’re signed up to receive notifications about replies to bringbackfreespeech.

        You can unsubscribe
        from emails about replies to bringbackfreespeech
        by replying to this email with “unsubscribe”
        or reduce the rate with which these emails are sent by
        adjusting your notification settings.

        • Neil Saunders

          The Cameron/Osborne administration is certainly, to use Chomsky’s expression, “Socialism for the rich”.

          In this programme of upward redistribution, the “squeezed middle” (who start pretty near the bottom) are equally certainly vastly over-taxed, but wealthy individuals and corporations have all kinds of ways to avoid (with the government’s blessing) or evade (with a blind eye turned).

    • Rob

      Couldn’t say it better myself, so won’t try. Great post, and great article Mr. Liddle. Getting very tired of mainstream centre ground views being dismissed and derided as extreme.

      • Bring Back Free Speech

        Thanks. It’s great we still have fearless Liddle writing for the Spectator, otherwise it would simply be a limp-wristed apology for the ill-named ‘Conservative’ party. Such a shame that previous regular contributors such as the tell-it-how -it-is Mark Steyn have been ‘no-platformed’ by a now-controlled media. Those who wish to take away our liberties first take away our freedom of speech. Subject: Re: Comment on Two socialist triumphs (one of them for Marine Le Pen)From: notifications@disqus.net To: alicecsmith@hotmail.co.uk
        Date: Fri, 18 Dec 2015 09:17:02 +0000

        “Couldn’t say it better myself, so won’t try. Great post, and great article Mr. Liddle. Getting very tired of mainstream centre ground views being dismissed and derided as extreme.”

        Settings

        A new comment was posted on The Spectator

        Rob

        Couldn’t say it better myself, so won’t try. Great post, and great article Mr. Liddle. Getting very tired of mainstream centre ground views being dismissed and derided as extreme.

        4:17 a.m., Friday Dec. 18

        |

        Other comments by Rob

        Reply

        to Rob

        Rob’s comment is in reply to

        Bring Back Free Speech:

        The terms left and right are becoming obsolete. It is a matter of those supporting total govt versus those of us who wish to maintain … Read more

        You’re receiving this message because you’re signed up to receive notifications about replies to bringbackfreespeech.

        You can unsubscribe
        from emails about replies to bringbackfreespeech
        by replying to this email with “unsubscribe”
        or reduce the rate with which these emails are sent by
        adjusting your notification settings.

        • Nick McBain

          Unsubscribe, thanks

          • Bring Back Free Speech

            Get lost, evil leftie. People like you want to suppress and eliminate all viewpoints that don’t coincide with yours because you are a nasty totalitarian troll.
            Subject: Re: Comment on Two socialist triumphs (one of them for Marine Le Pen)

          • Nick McBain

            Just catching up. No, it’s beause I don’t want to se any more of your pinhead rantings. Many thanks.

  • John Steadman

    Typically bold, penetrating, common sense and observation from Rod Liddle – brilliant Rod, and so right about what’s happening in France (about which I read in Le Monde, daily) – but where has this article been hidden away this past week? Or is it just me? Brilliant, just brilliant.

  • GraveDave

    I do find it odd that unlike Farage, Miliband, Corbyn, Trump (and anyone else the Tory media has targeted this last year or so), they havent yet been able to find a picture of her looking, how shall
    we say – ‘socially awkward’?

  • Stephen Powell

    There does not exist a single, major corporate media outlet that is not engaged in aggressive advocacy journalism for open border mass migration, state sponsored Islamization, and demonization of native ethnic groups who cling to their traditions and identity.

Close