Features

Islamic State is making its threats a reality

14 November 2015

9:00 AM

14 November 2015

9:00 AM

When the creation of a new caliphate was announced last year, who but the small band of his followers took seriously its leader’s prediction of imminent regional and eventual global dominance? It straddled the northern parts of Syria and Iraq, two countries already torn apart by civil war and sectarian hatreds. So the self-declared caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, appeared to be just another thug and opportunist ruling over a blighted no-man’s land, little known and still less revered in the wider Islamic world. He was surrounded by a rag-tag army of jihadis, whose imperial hubris seemed to reflect only a warped genocidal fanaticism. Surely they were far too otherworldly, with their obsession over the life lived by their prophet and his companions more than 1,400 years ago, to have much of an impact on the world in which we scuttle off to work each morning?

Two years on, even the most hardened sceptic is having second thoughts. The apparent bombing of a Russian airliner last week, minutes after taking off from the Egyptian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, was proof of the caliphate’s potential to wreak havoc on a global scale. It left hundreds of thousands of Britons, Russians and others stranded and distraught, or hastily cancelling their holidays. Here was more evidence, too, that Islamic State’s strategy of recruiting the Muslim masses by impoverishing them, while damning all among them who do not shun or kill infidels, is likely to be far more consequential than al-Qaeda’s spectacular attacks against prominent western targets. Egypt, after all, had been the only Arab country (apart from Iran-controlled Iraq) to openly support Russian airstrikes in Syria, and just a few weeks after making that fateful decision its most important resort is deserted. Others, such as Luxor and Aswan on the Nile, have been ghost towns since the 2011 uprising that toppled Hosni Mubarak.

Egypt was, in other words, just as much a target as Russia. The country’s tourism-dependent economy has been decimated, as has Tunisia’s following the slaughter of mostly British tourists there in June by another Isis-inspired terrorist. Both may take years to recover, and the fallout in the meantime will be a great boon for jihadist recruiters. This is part and parcel of the caliph’s strategy of bringing order out of chaos. For with such an overwhelming sense of hopelessness and helplessness, even cripplingly rigid tyranny starts looking like a preferable alternative. We have seen this play out repeatedly throughout the Sunni-majority areas of Iraq and Syria under the caliphate’s control, and in Taleban-dominated parts of Afghanistan.

The caliph must be rubbing his hands in glee. For the first time in modern history, large parts of the Arab world are now effectively off limits to Westerners — even if Isis was just jumping on the bandwagon of an accident. Meanwhile, millions of refugees and economic migrants, most of them Arab Muslims, continue to flood into Europe. Among them, if the caliphate’s propaganda is to be believed (and there is no reason to doubt it), are many who are determined to repay the kindness of strangers by blowing themselves and innocents to smithereens in the name of their beloved leader. This horrid little fascist, unrecognised as an authority on anything by anyone but himself until a few months ago, is turning the world on its head.


Taking stock of a new reality is what Vladimir Putin, the caliph’s main adversary, is also busy doing. Bedevilled by a growing jihadist threat at home and with the grim knowledge that some 8,000 Russian jihadis are believed to be fighting for the caliph with the dream of one day taking their fight to the homeland, Putin had sold the war in Syria as a way of making ordinary Russians safer. His popularity soared; but now a planeload of Russian holidaymakers are dead. More than a month into an aerial campaign officially slated to last just three or four, the Syrian army has managed to recapture only a few villages. And Isis fighters, according to some estimates numbering in the hundreds of thousands, are still emerging from fortified bunkers to carry out counterattacks in the most strategically crucial part of Syria. Russia can fire all the cruise missiles it likes, but without greater international co-ordination the caliphate clearly is not going anywhere soon.

However, with appalling cynicism Washington is happy, for the time being, to watch Putin sink deeper into the Syrian quagmire, flirting with the idea of a peace deal between the warring factions while its ally Saudi Arabia ratchets up arms supplies to those who are preposterously called ‘moderate’ rebels. Many critics of the West’s role in Syria point to Libya as an example of the potential perils of such forced and ill-thought-out regime change. To be sure, that is a relevant point; but a more accurate analogy can be drawn with Afghanistan. There, too, Washington and its Saudi ally, via Pakistan, armed and funded the mujahideen to fight the Russians, who withdrew from that cursed country in humiliating defeat. Those jihadis also told their paymasters everything they wanted to hear about being freedom fighters and pro-western, then morphed into the Taleban.

Putin is not a leader to show weakness under pressure, and Russia is not the Soviet Union. His initial response to the terror attack will be to increase airstrikes, while using the state-controlled media to drum up yet more mindless patriot fervour among the masses. But with consistently low oil prices, Russia’s economy is rapidly hurtling towards insolvency; and the longer the war drags on the more likely the prospect that terror attacks at home, in addition to inevitable civilian casualties in Syria, will undermine support for his self-declared crusade. This, sadly, is what Washington is hoping for, and its own endgame is much easier to discern: to get Putin to ditch President Bashar al-Assad so that everyone can save face in a war that has reached stalemate. Putin may be ruthlessly authoritarian, but he is also a master political pragmatist, and within hours of the terror attack he let a Kremlin minion state publicly, for the first time, that Russia did not consider Assad to be unexpendable.

But how can we have faith in our political leaders to deal intelligently and rationally with the threat posed by the caliphate, even after a political deal is reached in a post-Assad Syria, if they cannot even bumble through a stage-managed press conference without making fools of themselves? The Sharm attack came just hours before Egyptian President Abdul Fattah el-Sisi, scourge of the Islamists, came to the UK for a private meeting with David Cameron. They were to discuss, of all subjects, the fight against terrorism. Britain is Egypt’s biggest foreign investor, and Egypt (almost needless to say) is a massive purchaser of British arms; the red-carpet welcome was actually in no small part to thank Sisi for a £8 billion gas deal granted earlier this year to BP.

Considered remarkably generous in BP’s favour by energy experts, the deal was brokered, it is widely suspected, as part of a lobbying effort by Egypt (in conjunction with the UAE) to get the Muslim Brotherhood outlawed in Britain. But the facade of a war-on-terror alliance quickly came tumbling down — another feather in the caliph’s turban — when it emerged that this tinpot dictator was, in reality, considered to be so lacking in integrity by the British government that it refused to share intelligence gathered on the possible cause of the Russian plane crash with him, despite the fact that he was sitting in Downing Street and the aircraft had fallen out of the sky in Egyptian airspace.

Thus Sisi’s bid to be taken seriously on the world stage in the end only left him looking like the buffoon he is. Unbridled corruption, nepotism and cronyism were so rampant in his country, it turned out, that security at Sharm’s airport was practically nonexistent. A former Egyptian head of the country’s airport security summed up the absurdity when he revealed that even at Cairo’s things are such a monumental mess that staff once left a donkey to wander around inside it for days.

In this way, just months after it was leaked that Britain had helped Saudi Arabia secure a seat on an important UN human rights panel, Britain’s backdoor wheeling, dealing and horsetrading with yet another unsavoury Arab dictator was exposed. Under the guise of presenting Sisi as a steadfast supporter of the fight against radical Islam, Britain conveniently overlooked the fact that the Egyptian leader came to power by massacring more than a thousand peaceful demonstrators, and that he presides over a country so hopelessly mired in corruption that a security guard at an Egyptian airport may even have let a terrorist pass through unchecked because, like our government, he was slipped a few quid.

The caliphate hopes the Cold War mentality in Washington and the insatiable desire to feed at the trough of Arab despots there and everywhere else will undermine any effort to destroy it, even if a new international coalition of the willing is eventually created. The caliph and his successors are in this for the long haul, and a close reading of their propaganda reveals a truly apocalyptic scenario. Their strategy depends principally on an uprising in Saudi Arabia, which would plunge the global economy into a catastrophic depression. Jordan, a Saudi client state where Islamists are the only serious opposition and where the King is considered a laughing stock, would immediately fall, leaving the soldiers of the caliph free to focus on their most anticipated battle for the ‘liberation’ of Jerusalem. It sounds fanciful and far-fetched, to the point of being ridiculous. But so did everything the caliph was saying two years ago about what we are quickly resigning ourselves to calling a terrifying new world order.

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Show comments
  • Murti Bing

    On Sunday it was reported that some of those heard celebrating the downing of this jet, and the consequent loss of innocent life, had Birmingham and London accents – the terrorists are home grown. The first thing European governments must do is wake up to the very real threat contained within Europe’s borders and neutralise it as fast as possible. This means no more concessions to islamic preferences, close the mosques and the so-called schools, throw out hate preachers, cut foreign funding for islamic organisations and introduce a radical de-islamisation policy. This may look like prejudice, but we are not fighting a race, nor are we fighting a religion, we are fighting an ideology which, at it’s heart, is nothing less than fascist. And the threat to Western stability is very real.

    • sidor

      What are you talking about? The person who started the Arab Spring and orchestrated the Libyan disaster is going to be the next US president. The West is ruled by the wahhabi fifth column.

    • vieuxceps2

      Plus deportation of course. Big job,though,there are tens of millions in Europe and Scandinavia.Better start now as there are many more every day,coming by land ,sea or air or per via naturalis.

    • Clive

      The IRA bombed Britain in the hope of starting a backlash among the British against ordinary Irish people here. As though all Irish people sympathised with the IRA, which they clearly did not.

      Now you want to do the same for all Muslims and start a real war here.

      • Murti Bing

        No I don’t. I want us all to live in peace and harmony, but that doesn’t seem to be about to happen, does it?

        Furthermore, the IRA (vile as they were) had a clear and stated aim, the unification of Ireland and, when they finally tired of all the killing, could at least be negotiated with. Islam also has a clear and stated aim, set out repeatedly in the Koran, which is the death of all non-muslims until the whole world is one great big happy mosque. There is no negotiation with this point of view, as it is absolute and, supposedly, ordained by their god. I wish it weren’t so, but unfortunately it is.

        Consequently, all those who follow this line of thinking, that is to say all those who regard every word in the Koran as being the holy word of their god, must be regarded as suspect by those who are the potential victims of this murderous mindset. This is the real issue our leaders need to grapple with right now.

        If muslims do not wish to be seen as potential genocidal maniacs, then, I am afraid, their only course of action is to reject outright the supposed word of their god and find something else to do with their time, like gardening perhaps!

        Again, I wish it weren’t like this, but sadly it is.

    • Islam is first and foremost a political movement. The religious aspects are almost insignificant.

  • TrippingDwarves

    This might be a start:

    ‘Europe crackdown on ‘jihadist network’
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34798126

    • Kasperlos

      Staged event to quell the EU masses that ‘something’ is being done to protect them. What about the other millions in the EU illegally? The EU doesn’t have a clue as to the true identities of these people. One clue is that many nations have told the EU that will not take their own people back, so don’t bother with deportation proceedings.

  • boiledcabbage

    The progress made by the West is too little. Five years ago Cameron saw no wrong in islamist ideas, now the scales have fallen somewhat, but the Uk isnt going to fight, hemmed in by ‘lawfare’, and the persecution of its own soldiers. Sadly, the uk will appease the islamists whilst saying bold things about ISIS for the press.

    What should happen, of course, is the all-out eradication of ISIS by NATO, Russia and Israel combined, preferably before ISIS gain control of the oil supply. Control of the OPEC spigots is probably in Putins’ mind.

    • Cyril Sneer

      The Obama regime will deny support for such a thing. I think we should all know by now which side they’re on.

  • Richard Eldritch

    We should have used ISIS to rid ourselves of some home grown jundies but what did we do? We allowed them back, and wibbled about grooming and gave them “councilling” We’re pathetic.

    • boiledcabbage

      Things are swept under the carpet, until there is an outrage, then “something is done”.

    • Sunshine Sux

      GREAT Britain, is exporting some of the worst terrorists known to man.
      And welcoming them back with open arms.
      Such a formidable country.

  • commenteer

    You’re being rather hard on Sisi, a brave man who has taken on the fundamentalists, much to the relief of middle class Egyptians.

  • sidor

    Its not ISIS, Al-Qaeda or other effigies which pose a deadly threat to the world. It’s a real state which has perpetrated this form of war for its ideological and political purposes within the last 15 years. The fact that nobody dares to name it indicates that it is winning the war. It is of no use to bomb a desert territory in Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan. And this state effectively uses the Western military power to achieve its goals, like it was in Libya.

    • vieuxceps2

      “Nobody dares to name it”. You seem to know all about it. Why don’t you name it?

      • sidor

        Are you sure you don’t know who is behind ISIS? If you are, I shall immediately tell the dog’s name.

        • vieuxceps2

          No, I am not sure who is behind ISISI.Do tell.

  • Liberanos

    The extraordinarily devout and courageous members of ISIS, following…to the death…the imperatives of the koran represent the very apotheosis of islam. It is our good fortune that the muslims among us are not so devout. But I’m not sure it’s entirely sensible to base one’s security on their continuing apostasy. I hope we don’t.

    • boiledcabbage

      Foolish to be under that illusion.

      • vieuxceps2

        Illusion? I fear that is exactly what our problem is……Where are the multicultis now?

  • ViolinSonaten b minor.

    hello.. as this got to be approved too 😉

  • Kasperlos

    Save for the likes of President Zeman of the Czech Republic and PM Orban of Hungary, most of the EU leaders are clueless, could care less, or tacitly support the continuation of a 100 years war. It’s just possible that the latest Berlin political drama wherein the Interior Minister announced toughening up of refugee policy without approval of his betters is a sign that some see an outrageous dereliction of duty and are taking matters into their own hands to mount a rescue operation – if that’s possible at this stage.
    Finally, in the murky world of Middle East, Central, South Asia how is the average person to guage what is really going on. One would assume that since HM Border Force can ferret out an extra pack of duty-free cigarettes in your luggage, inquire as to how much holiday cash you’re bringing in your wallet (all currencies, please) that these many terror organisations’ funding, supply, support sources could be identified and stopped with international cooperation.

    • vieuxceps2

      I take it that when you write “could care less”,you actually mean “could not care less”? Might help others to understand if you eschewed trendy americanisms and used plain English.

  • johnhenry

    Bloody good article.

  • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

    The Middle East is caught between the Devil and the Deep blue sea.

    The US 40 nation coalition is arming and training the Kurdish Rebels to take on ISIS while the Kurdish rebels have been fighting for a homeland since the “Sykes/Picot” agreement drawn by Great Britain and France in 1916. That agreement dismantled the Ottoman Empire and drew the modern lines of the Middle East… but it failed to include a homeland for the Kurdish population.

    They are now scattered across the Middle East with large minorities from Turkey to Iran. The Kurdish fighters want a homeland based on Ethnicity. “Kurdistan” is to be formed out of massive chunks from almost every nation in the Middle East, especially Turkey,. Long before ISIS the Turkish army has battled the Kurdish rebels for decades.
    To form Kurdistan it will force these nation to:

    -purge the Kuds out of their lands in an act of genocide.
    -keep fighting the Kurds while arming ISIS in the hope that the latter will stop the former
    or
    -give in and let the Kurds carve out massive parts of lands from Turkey to Iran. (that is not about to happen)

    Due to policies from Washington D.C. that led to the Iraqi war, the ouster of Saddam, followed by the draconian all encompassing sanctions on Iraq that ended killing an estimated 1 million citizens. The sanctions were so severe that it disabled a nation to function in this age. Chlorine for the purification of water was banned, vaccinations for children was banned. It is due to this that some of the most seasoned fighters in ISIS are former Iraqi soldiers.

    In the meantime the US was also arming the people of Syria to take on Assad and Damascus, while Russia, who has a vested interest in Syria due to the Russians using one of her ports.. Without Assad Moscow loses that leverage. The rise of ISIS is based on a theological concept shared by many in the Islamic world and that is a Caliphate. ISIS needs the “Great Satan”, a theological term for the US, to enter the fight against her for only then will the other terrorist factions align with ISIS against the US and by that strengthen the hold of ISIS, now on a land the size of the United Kingdom.

    Long story short we are arming one “monster” (the Kurds) to take on another “monster “(ISIS) with no guarantee that ISIS will be defeated and no assurance that both “Kurdistan” and the I’SIS “Caliphate” will both develop, while Russia will defend Assad at any cost including killing those Syrians the US is arming.

    • Bonkim

      Carpet bomb the lot.

      • red2black

        ‘Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.’ Albert Einstein

        • Bonkim

          History repeats itself. Man has got complacent – suspend human rights of evil doers bring back hanging.

          • red2black

            Sorted. Job done.

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        Then you set a new standard of warfare. to decimate a population works both ways. If it is moral to do that to them then it becomes moral to do that to us.

        • Bonkim

          Must agree – but IS has no limit to its depravity and a dark ages religion and mindset needs to be put down ruthlessly. Yes there are risks but then an existential threat has to be dealt with at all costs and if in the process we be casualties – so be it.

          The UN or Geneva convention has no relevance to IS and equally we need to abandon all such sentiments or definitions of morality in dealing with them. You don’t worry about plague bacteria – and yes in dealing with plague there is a risk you could become infected and disappear.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            a few issues about ISIS
            -last year they announced that anyone anywhere can pledge allegiance to them and become an IS member. they do not have to go to the mid east. I call that “Instant IS”

            -Read articles that IS has set a new standard of terrorism for the world terrorist orgs. they see the success of IS and copy her methods. this copy cat terrorists do not have to call themselves IS but do almost everything IS does as in the Afghani Taliban

            -If IS is defeated then you have to still deal with a well armed and trained Kurdish movement which is far older than IS.

          • Bonkim

            The Khurds are fighting for their homeland. They are really freedom fighters and are concentrated within their geographical areas – IS is a nebulous body lead by an evil ideology as you say spread across the globe – yes they are the enemy within as yesterday’s Paris shootings reveal.

            What they will do is to revert to the situation that prevailed on earth a hundred years back with anarchist and revolutionary groups carrying out political and sectarian killings – will be difficult for civilized society to cope with except by suspending civil rights of suspects, wholesale deportation and the like.

            The post war era of relative peace and economic development would be gone. That is how history repeats itself.

            Now the earth is grossly overpopulated, communications/travel speedier and the end more predictable.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Bonkim
            the monster of ISIS reared her head today. but the formation of Kurdistan will be at the expense of every other nation in the middle east.;

            There is no space to form Kurdistan.

            It has to form from parts of existing nations in the mid east. that will lead to a genocide of the Kurdish populations in any one of those nations. the chaos from that alone could feed ISIS and lead to another exodus of them to Europe.

            If Kurdistan forms she will be a new power center with her own capital and her own voice she will be surrounded by enemies and that could be a long long war.
            Keep in mind the birth of Kurdistan does not mean that the Caliphate of ISIS will end Both nations may emerge.

          • Bonkim

            Great – the Khurds deserve that and the region was populated by nomadic tribesmen warring with each other since time began, infested by a dark ages religion and culture.

            The nation states you refer to are all artificial creations post WW1, the Turks are Mongols that invaded the region few centuries back, the Khurds were there and were a civilized lot long before all these invaders took over.

            History never stands still, political borders change and have to be defended – history is always evolving.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            That is still another problem. the tribal nature of the middle east (not including Iran, Israel, Turkey,) are still there but this time they have the modern weapons and means to exterminate massive numbers of people.
            Since that is the :”middle” east. the effects radiate out across to Europe and to the subcontinent causing a domino effect of cascading societies.
            the economic impact of an imploding middle east will be felt across the world
            The terrorism born from all that chaos maybe more than we are willing to deal with.

          • Bonkim

            Adapt and change or die – nothing is forever.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Adapt and Change and (not or) die – nothing is forever. That is a high philosophical statement that cannot be applied to the specific problem I presented. Even though it is true.
            to add
            Life and death are the cruel children of mother time ,who eventually consumes them.
            or that life is relentless and destroys worlds
            None of the above, as true as they are, help anyone in dealing with the birth pains of Kurdistan

          • Bonkim

            No different in Europe where post WW2 liberation, freedoms, prosperity and social enlightenment came after centuries of sectarian and ethnic conflict – some bloodier than Syria or that from ISIS. Liberty is all the more sweet when you have to shed blood for it – you value something when you have paid a high price, much of the world have run away and as such do not value freedom. Narrow/bigoted nationalism does not survive for long – the Khurds you will find value their freedoms as they are prepared to die for and have noble ideals – unlike ISIS where religious bigotry prevails – ISIS is scum that needs to be eliminated whatever the means.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            Another commenter pointed out the difference . Unlike Europe the Middle East are extremely tribal . the Saudi Royal Family were living in a tent with the “national treasure” in a chest around the turn of the 20th century. Google that.

            The extreme tribal nature of the Middle East, with the exception (maybe) of Iran, Israel, Turkey is also steeped in deep animosity towards each other, and is the underpinning of so much carnage in that region.

            Logical thought and pragmatic decisions expected from leaders seem to take second place in the Arab world. The high level of violence in so many terrorist groups born in the Middle East is partly due to that tribal aspects.

  • Bonkim

    More of this as populations explode across the globe and resources running out. Fast transport, communications, and a global economic system, and vast potential differences in economic situation and belief systems with some still stuck in the dark ages makes an existential conflict inevitable. ISIS is a nebulous amoeba multiplying wherever it finds willing volunteers – and cannot be defeated by conventional means. Erecting walls to keep the infection out will also constrict the patient. you haven’t seen anything yet.

  • davidshort10

    I was on a plane to Tunisia the other day. It was full of British tourists.

  • davidshort10

    What a dopey article. When I am in the UK, I am more likely to be under threat on the street from a wild-eyed white shaven-headed bloke who is pissed off at the world because he can’t get a job than an Islamic terrorist, probably by a factor of twenty million.

    • Bonkim

      Moral – Don’t come to Britain!

    • Richard Eldritch

      yeah “wild-eyed white shaven-headed blokes” are always blowing up Kuffars and murdering 200 people where I live. ya tool.

      • davidshort10

        You need to move house! But as you live with your mother even though you are 40, that might be difficult.

        • Richard Eldritch

          I own three houses, am very handsome and successfull, I earn 250 an hour for pissing about with pictures, I’ve had more lovers than I can remember.I have two lovely kids and a beautifull wife. What you got Dave?

          • davidshort10

            I am glad you are ‘successfull’ and that you have a ‘beautifull’ wife.

  • Sean Grainger

    Who is this halfwit Bradley? Blowing up a plane in Egypt means ,, er ,, you can blow up a plane in Egypt not start a global conflict. And one of my favourite dartoons from about 1985 — in Playboy — was of two Roman border guards, spotting a few elephants with spear wielding Carhaginians aboard, saying ” Uh uh this looks like trouble.” Ditto when we saw those yobs in their Toyotas … No more from Bradley please

  • King Zog

    Mr Bradley, stop saying ‘caliph’ and ‘caliphate’. It only encourages them.

  • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

    About a year ago ISIS declared that any nation who wages war with them they will target the people of that nation with words such as “from street to street …”

    If this is the doing of ISIS then Putin and Holland took up that challenge.:By doing so they directly put the people of France and Russia (including the 40 nations involved) in the front lines along with the troops.

    ISIS has been doing this on a daily basis in the Middle East. It is NOT new to them it is only new to France and Russia (if that commercial plane was downed by ISIS). That is the price the people will face when the government takes on ISIS

    Answer? get rid of all potential threats

    This is a war of ideologies. ISIS represents a perverted version of Islam. It is perverted for they also kill Shia and Sufi Muslims. ISIS has formed a Caliphate the size of Great Britain and sustained it for a year. It is based on an Islamic ideology. religion is twisted and made into a Frankenstein’s monster by ISIS and they have openly stated that they will attack (Christian based) Europe on one end and “Ghazwa-E-Hind” or Hindu India on the other end.

    • JohnJ

      “ISIS represents a perverted version of Islam. ” There is no perversion – they are fundamentalists. That is the basis of the religion. they are Zealots and the Koran is the LAST word of God. So unlike all the Zealots of other religions – who you can say ‘interpreted’ their religions. You can not charge ISIS with that. Everything they write and do is following to the letter the Koran and the Hadiths. They are following God exactly. That is why they will win, Every Sunni Muslim is trapped. IS are acting out what they hear in the mosque. You cant destroy people who continually replenish and are happy to die ( and take a few kuffa or as in the case of Friday, Farangi’s) with them.

      • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

        John.
        you cannot cut a part of my comment and then disagree with me for I explained why I consider ISIS a perverted version of Islam. You chose to ignore it so here it is again ” It is perverted for they also kill Shia and Sufi Muslims.”

        I also want add that ISIS is made up of Muslims (and not Christians, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists ,etc). Yes they are Muslim who decided on their own that Shia Muslims and Sufi Muslims are in fact “not Muslim” and they kill them for that.

        • JohnJ

          Yep -IS do not see them as Muslims. That is not a perversion – that is straight from a well believed 1200 year old and existing tradition. Look up Sheikh Bin Baz – he was my favourite.
          So you’ll have to choose who are the Muslims : Suffi, Shia, Nazari, Yezidi, Sunni, Alevi, Alawite, Druze. Because – yes here it is – they hate each other and do not see the other as Muslims – but I guess you know more than them. Fortunately they hate each other more than they hate the likes of me. We (assuming you are a Farangi) just get in the way. As no doubt you will see in the coming years.

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            There are people far worse than the Muslims.
            Hindu India condemns 320 million Pariahs simply because they were born that way. They have to do things no human would ever do.
            Hindu India is home to 15 million bona fide slaves. Each year 15 thousand Nepali girls (and now boys) are abducted and sold into every perverted act, including harvesting of organs.
            read the book
            India Shattering the Illusion. The Birth of New Nations. Kashmir to Eelam” By Columbus Falco

            the endless list of horrors going on in Hindu India is so vast it will dwarf what any other society is doing at its worst.
            Try the Hindu Aghori Sadhus who eat rotten human meat raw. It has to be rotten. Including human fecal matter and fetuses. the horrors in that nation of 1.3 billion people will simply astound you.

          • JohnJ

            That is it? There are people that are far worse? Are you kidding? The Muslims are killing us NOW. They are killing each other NOW. In every part of the world. It is NOW and it is us. It is my friends and family who go to a concert or out for dinner or a train ride or on a bus.
            I guess there is nothing to say to someone who says ‘there are far worse’ .

          • Mr. Bernard Wijeyasingha

            ISIS only became an issue for you when Paris was attacked, Western media hardly covered when Christians were crucified in a mock act by ISIS or buried alive to represent the resurrection of Christ. You can Google that. the pictures are there. NO Western nation gave this much notice…. till the west is directly attacked and that is as obvious as a gaping wound

            What I pointed out and If you googled that book and read the outside cover, you will understand that the collective horror going on in India is making its way to our cultures. Those filming the Aghori Sadhus eating rotten human meat saw no moral issue about it. there was no “moral relevancy” It was fine for it is part of the diversity.

            Students in a college in the US were asked about “post term abortion”, a politically correct word to kill the baby. these were College students. they agreed that they would agree to this up to the age of 5 if the child has genetic problems. That too is in the book. what is happening is that the vast and dazzling cultures of the Subcontinent. the high philosophies, the galaxy of monuments, the wonderful art. is allowing a darker side to enter our world.

            It is insidious in it subtleties. Anything extreme and radical; is written off as the ‘diversity of the culture” and it then transforms the world. that is how marijuana a native plant of the Himalayas and central to Shiva worship and Tantra in Hinduism is now a common recreational drug in the US and some parts of Europe. It is not as obvious as Fundamental Islam but it effectively kills a society silently slowly and with full acceptance.

            I am a person who knows and can debate on a professional level both western and Indian cultures. I live in both of them. You may think radical Islam is the worst thing to happen while not knowing something more elusive that can be as deadly..

  • JustSomeChap

    This cannot go on.

    • grutchyngfysch

      It will though, and it will get worse.

      • Kasperlos

        Indeed, as one witnesses the horrific events in Paris. But the masses still cling to their misguided belief that their political betters have it all under control. The only control would be tightening of the noose on their own citizens liberties and pocket books whilst rolling out the red carpet for millions more illegal economic migrants. Bizarre times.

  • WTF

    Having strong views myself and listening to the many pundits talking about this war on the west, drastic action is now needed to minimize the likelihood of future events like Paris tonight. Its generally accepted that with the current freedoms we all enjoy, our borders are leaking like a sieve and Islam has the upper hand if we continue on our present ineffective path and we need to adopt a new strategy with 10 key points.

    1/ Aggressive profiling and arrest of the likely suspects should be the norm in areas where we know these terrorists live. Stop and frisk of the usual suspects should be the order of the day.

    2/ All Immigration or visitation should be halted from Islamic countries and any other person wanting right of work & residence must have an legitimate ID, police certificate, proof of previous residence, utility bills etc, etc. In essence, everything that a legal immigrant requires to live in the UK or USA.

    3/ Islam along with its support groups will be prescribed as hate organizations and banned as well as all mosques will close until Islam has an enlightenment similar to the New Testament.

    4/ No Muslim schools will be subsidized by the state and any religious teaching will be banned there.

    5/ Any Muslim deemed to be a threat or caught disobeying these measures should be given a choice of internment until this ‘war’ is over or leave the country permanently.

    6/ Human rights laws for non citizens will be suspended for the duration of this war.

    7/ Anyone giving aid or support to terrorists will be treated as a terrorist and not be covered by human rights.

    8/ One way repatriation or emigration will be offered by the state for any who wishes to leave.

    9/ UK law will be the only law allowed and ‘criminal’ cultural practices such as polygamy will be outlawed and rigorously enforced.

    10/ Welfare benefits for children will be capped at 2 per adult male who fathered them.

    • Clive

      So you alienate every Muslim in the country and you think that will bring us peace ?

      I believe it will bring us something else entirely. It will confirm all the propaganda ISIS have been spouting. Every Muslim kid in two minds about becoming a jihadi will suddenly be in no doubt at all.

      This is a war that cannot be won by main force. It must be won in the mind, like the fight against the IRA which they lost when Irish Nationalists in Northern Ireland stopped being discriminated against for employment, for instance at Harland & Wolff http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/ni/2012/03/have_we_airbrushed_the_history.html …Catholic workers were very often excluded from the workforce because of their religion. Some spoke of “clear outs” of those Catholics who were employed at the shipyard. One even said the clear out was so comprehensive that we might properly regard Titanic as itself Protestant….

      A united Ireland was never a good enough cause and the provisional IRA’s raison d’être was fatally undermined.

      So we must undermine ISIS by showing that they lie. That Muslims can live contented in western society as long as the nutters leave them alone.

      • WTF

        They need to be shown that ours is a Christian based society that has many freedoms that are denied them in Islamic countries. With those freedoms comes aspects they might not like but having lived in three different western countries, not one of them is perfect but they all have freedoms unlike Islamic culture.

        I don’t care if they are alienated, this is a classic case of letting a child rule your life and they end up a major league criminal because they always got their own way and when liberals allow Islamic only communities in major cities, no wonder they create problems like last night.

        Conflating Northern Ireland ‘troubles’ with last night is false, it was a social injustice issue against Catholics in N. Ireland that was the problem there and not religion. This is a religious war and you need a reality check to understand this.

        The time is over for libturds like you to suggest we can debate with them, we can’t, fact it, Islam does not allow it.

      • Richard

        Muslims are alienated in any event, and always are in countries that are not Islamic. They don’t want freedom, care nothing for secularism, and seek merely to live according to Allah’s imperatives, which include converting or killing the kaffir. We are the kaffirs, ignorant, unclean, and in need of conversion, according to them. That we resist is proof of our backwardness and evil intent. There can be no peaceful coexistence with Islam, as has been shown time and time again, in countries into which they have moved, or in countries in which they are the majority.

      • JohnJ

        “So we must undermine ISIS by showing that they lie” What lies are those?. Perhaps you need to check what they say Have you read Dabiq?
        ” It will confirm all the propaganda ISIS have been spouting.” Where does IS say anything like that? IS does not even believe that many western Muslims are muslims. They actually don’t care about this. Perhaps you need to use primary sources instead of Guardian “journalists”. Go and have a chat to a Salafist – if you are in the UK they are driving your cabs. You can pick them because there is no music in their cab – because the ‘radio don’t work’

    • Grace Ironwood

      Umm. The Charlie Hebdo “cartoon reaction” was one of the higher profile instances of acts of war that have been going on for decades now.
      Our leaders seem imperturbable & impermeable in their foolishness.

  • Clive

    Russia and Vladimir Putin are significantly more corrupt than anyone in Egypt. Putin is as open to purchase as any Egyptian airport worker. He is still propagandising about doped Russian athletes and his daughter http://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2015/nov/11/katerina-tikhonova-putins-boogie-woogie-dancing-daughter seems to be worth $2bn. I guess she just married lucky ? That is nothing to Putin’s personal fortune estimated in 2007 at $40bn http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/dec/21/russia.topstories3 Putin “effectively” controls 37% of the shares of Surgutneftegaz, an oil exploration company and Russia’s third biggest oil producer, worth $20bn, he says. He also owns 4.5% of Gazprom, and “at least 75%” of Gunvor, a mysterious Swiss-based oil trader, founded by Gennady Timchenko, a friend of the president’s, Belkovsky alleges.

    Asked how much Putin was worth, Belkovsky said: “At least $40bn. Maximum we cannot know. I suspect there are some businesses I know nothing about.” He added: “It may be more. It may be much more..

    In the meantime, the Russians attack the enemies of ISIS http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/25/russia-troops-syria-could-helping-isis-report whoever they are. Others commenting here point out that Nusra, for instance, are allied to Al Qaeda. Well, Russia are allied with Iran – theoracy, religious police – and Hezbollah, the ‘Party of God’ run by imams behind assassinations in Lebanon.

    The chief enemy is ISIS and anyone from non-Muslim countries attacking groups in Syria should be attacking them. 90% of Russian attacks have been on groups other than ISIS “In this way, Russian troops are backing Assad in the fight against groups such as Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, which are themselves opposed to Isis. If Russian troops do eventually join combat, therefore, they would also – technically – be assisting Isis,” Sutyagin argued. from the report cited above.

    Other ‘facts’ in this piece are just as debatable. I can find nowhere that the efforts of BP are reported as favourable to them or as a trade-off against the banning of the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) – a deal which this author says has failed (well he would say that wouldn’t he, since the MB are not banned here). Perhaps he could offer some other sources for those ‘facts’ ?

  • Clive

    We should not be attacking Muslims now. The vast majority of people who have been killed by ISIS have been Muslims. We need to be attacking nutters, not Muslims.

    The vast majority of Muslims have and want nothing to do with ISIS. They are our best ally in undermining and destroying ISIS.

    ISIS propaganda about Muslims being victims in the West has brought young Muslims to them. We need to combat that propaganda by
    (1) Showing that it is not true, that it is nutters and not Muslims that we are against and
    (2) Siding with the parents of these potential jihadis in preventing their radicalisation
    This is an interview with the most senior Muslim British police officer, Mak Chishty:
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/24/jihadi-threat-requires-move-into-private-space-of-uk-muslims-says-police-chief In an interview with the Guardian, Chishty said there was now a need for “a move into the private space” of Muslims to spot views that could show the beginning of radicalisation far earlier. He said this could be shown by subtle changes in behaviour, such as shunning certain shops, citing the example of Marks & Spencer, which could be because the store is sometimes mistakenly perceived to be Jewish-owned.

    Chishty said friends and family of youngsters should be intervening much earlier, watching out for subtle, unexplained changes, which could also include sudden negative attitudes towards alcohol, social occasions and western clothing. They should challenge and understand what caused such changes in behaviour, the police commander said, and seek help, if needs be from the police, if they are worried.

    Chishty is the most senior Muslim officer in Britain’s police service and is head of community engagement for the Metropolitan police in London. He said Isis propaganda was so powerful he had to be vigilant about his own children. But some will argue that his ideas walk a fine line between vigilance in the face of potent extremist propaganda and criminalising thought….

    • Grace Ironwood

      “the most senior Muslim officer in Britain’s police service and is head of community engagement for … He said Isis propaganda was so powerful he had to be vigilant about his own children.”
      – and why is that?

    • Ivan Ewan

      “They are our best ally in undermining and destroying ISIS.”

      Is that right? Then how is it that we cringe and cower at the idea that some tiny little upset will instantly transform all our friendly neighbourhood moderate Muslims into slavering terrorists? Is it because we really do trust them to be good people, or is it because we know perfectly well that they are deliberately imbued with a vengeful nature, and that their imams could program enough of them to cause nationwide chaos within a single month?

      Why is it, if they are our best ally, that a good portion of them go waving ISIS flags in London now and then, supported by leftist maniacs and united in their blaming of everything on one very small Jewish country on the other side of the Med?

      How is it that these youngsters so quickly turn against ‘social occasions and western clothing’ if Islam is so far removed from, well, from Islam?

      Close mosques whenever people are killed. I don’t like it that much, we used to have more civilised courses of action open to us, but instead we chose stupid ones.

    • JohnJ

      You obviously need to read the Koran and the Hadiths. and while you are at it a good history of the Rachidun may help especially the massacres during the Riddah wars.
      According to IS the vast majority of people they have killed are NOT Muslims. That is the point. Why is Chishty worried about his kids but the Christians/Sikhs/Buddhists next door are not?
      Because ‘moderate’ Islam prepares the way for Salafists. Name one quote that IS has used to justify their actions that is wrong. None.
      They are perfectly correct. “not true” – do you really know?
      They represent the pure Islam – and the ummah all know it. That is why they can not convince their kids otherwise. The real dangers is this soft social work rubbish at a time of war.

  • Grace Ironwood

    It is muslims who are making these threats a reality and western elites who are enabling them. ISIS is just the latest inspiration, as al Quaida was before them.
    If any nations got serious about conducting war against the “Caliphate” they could wipe it off the face of the earth. We in the west are now castrates who can no longer conduct war. We appear to have “civilised” to the point of losing the most elementary instincts of self-preservation.

    • Richard

      We are essentially like self-trussing turkeys, readying ourselves to be somebody else’s feast for Christmas.

  • Bodkinn

    If is truly amazing that western leaders seem never to have clued into the fact that our style democracy will never be workable in the Near East. There are too many disparate groups who will never make the concessions to each other necessary to make it possible. As has always happened a strong man will always arise who will give a country stability and all the basics the people want. The tap water will flow, the power will stay on, commerce will do its thing, children will go to school and cities will not be bombed to destruction and thousands killed or turned into refugees as happens when mindless outsiders interfere in a culture they do not understand. The strong man will not be nice man if he wants to survive but he may be seen as Christlike compared to the alternatives which no one is any longer in doubt about.

  • Schlomo Effendi

    https://muslimstatistics.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/27-of-young-french-muslims-1-62-million-back-the-islamic-state-poll-finds/

    MORE THAN A QUARTER OF YOUNG FRENCH MUSLIMS SUPPORT THE ISLAMIC STATE.

    70% OF ALL MUSLIMS INDICATED SOME LEVELS OF SUPPORT.

    THIS IS A FIFTH COLUMN

  • Jacobi

    Islam, particularly the Sunni branch of it, is at war with the West, indeed with all the non-Sunni world.

    We in the West therefore are at war. It will be some time before secular society and the Christian church grasps this. But they will.

    In war you must understand your enemy’s objective. It is the universal Caliphate.

    You then destroy his resources. Saudi Arabia inspires, finances, arms and ensures the logistics. So Saudi Arabia must go. This despite the fact that the USA and British arms industry will lose out enormously.

    You say that is also the objective of the terrorists and that chaos will result. In a sense that is good .

    We are at war after all, just as we were 70 years ago in 1945. The West, the Russian Federation and Africa will have to employ the resources in this war we applied in 1945, and possibly more. If we don’t then they will win.

    The immediate action is to re-establish Europe’s borders and introduce internment for all immigrants. Proper internment behind secure fences with the military in control. That is the only way we can separate distinguish asylum seekers from religious or economic migrants.

    All non-asylum seekers, including those already within Europe should be held and eventually
    repatriated.

    Not pleasant or nice, but then war never is.

  • JohnJ

    The Islamic State is after Mecca – everything else is a side show. When they get Mecca they will be the leaders of the Sunni world ( the Ummah) and all your nice neighbors and that lovely family down the road, will have to make a choice. It is an easy choice as it is in the Koran and taught in every Sunni mosque.
    it will be like India in 1947 – ask a few Hindus as to what happened.
    All the bombing in the world will not stop the Islamic State. They are not after land except that they can get taxes. Islamic State represents all the stories, wishes, forecasts found in the Islamic tradition. The ‘moderate’ Sunni Muslims are trapped. They do not have one argument against IS.
    BTW – keep an eye out for next Friday the 20th of November.

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