Rod Liddle

Soon, having sex and having children will be utterly disconnected

One day kids will be a lifestyle choice, an accessory, devolved from notions of faith and nature. But we’re not there yet

12 September 2015

9:00 AM

12 September 2015

9:00 AM

What is tougher for a kid? To be born black in a predominantly white neighbourhood, or to be born to surrogate lesbian parents?

Payton Cramblett, aged three, is both. She lives in Uniontown, Ohio — a suburb of unlovely Akron, tyre capital of the United States. Her parents are the butch, crew-cut dyke Jennifer Cramblett and the slightly less identifiably lesbian Amanda Zinkon. They are not best pleased. They bought six vials of semen from a nearby sperm bank at a cost of $400 a pop. I don’t know how much of the stuff you get in a vial — I assume no more than a couple of quick squirts — but anyway, it was via this wholly natural and romantic conduit that little Payton was created. I am not entirely au fait with the process, I confess, but I am sure that it is deeply loving and romantic, no matter what complicated implements are required. And charged with great sexual tension, too, seeing as so much money is involved.

Anyway, for reasons best known to at least one brave little sperm, this holy act of lovemaking worked a treat and pretty soon Payton was conceived.


But when she came out, she was black. The parents were aghast, especially Jennifer. She is now suing the sperm bank because she specified on her application form that she wanted the donor to be white, blond-haired and blue-eyed. So we would seem to have a breach of contract.

Jennifer’s worries are many and multifarious. First, she says that she has no ‘cultural competency’ with African-Americans — which I think is modern parlance for not liking blacks. Second, there is the problem of sorting out little Payton’s hair, which is black and tightly curled. She has to drive a very long way in order to find a salon capable of dealing with black people’s hair, as there are none at all in Uniontown. And that’s a bind. Finally, there are the many problems that will face Payton as she grows up in a suburb which is almost entirely white. She will feel dislocated and alienated from her neighbourhood, Jennifer argues, a lonely black face amid a sea of lower-middle-class honkies.

And that brings me back to the question with which I opened this article. It is true that there are very few black people in Uniontown — they constitute a fraction of 1 per cent of the 3,000 or so people who live there. But that’s still probably more than there are children conceived artificially to lesbian parents, no? When it comes to social stigma applied by undoubtedly horrible and ignorant people, my guess is that she will suffer more as a consequence of the parental arrangement than she will as a consequence of the colour of her skin. Much though we all might wish to abolish the reactionary and old-fashioned set-up of the family — man, woman, children conceived by arduous and humiliating bouts of sexual intercourse within a grim and monogamous marriage — some people, and especially children, can be a little resistant to more progressive and agreeable methods of procreation and child-rearing. Unaccountably, they cleave to tradition. I am sure that this can be beaten out of them by interventionist programmes at school to the extent that one day marriage between a man and a woman will be seen as entirely irrelevant to the procreation of children, and kids will simply be a lifestyle choice, an accessory, quite devolved from notions of commitment, religious faith, nature and so on. That sunlit upland is well on the way, but we are not there yet.

Regarding the hairdressing problem: twice a year my wife travels 70 miles to have her hair done. I don’t see why Jennifer and Payton can’t make a journey of a dozen miles or so to Akron to sort her cornrows out. There are more black people in Akron than you could shake a stick at — a third of the population. It was also a venue for the 2014 Gay Games. I don’t know why there are separate Olympic games for gay people — possibly because, as with the Paralympics, they are not as fast as the athletes in the normal Olympics, or can’t throw things as far. But whatever, perhaps Jennifer and Amanda should consider moving the short distance to Akron, as it seems, demographically at least, the perfect place. Also, if they ever get a puncture in the car, they’ll be sorted. But moving house would involve a commitment to their child which does not so far seem to have impinged.

This problem, the Payton Problem, may raise its head again soon enough. Rates of lesbianism and homosexuality are much lower within black and ethnic minority populations than they are among whitey. Rates of black homosexual or lesbian people who wish to adopt a child are vanishingly small. But at the same time, there is apparently no shortage of black males who are happy to donate their semen to the sperm banks. Fifty bucks a go, all you have to do is stare at a picture of Hillary Clinton in a pleasant cubicle for a few minutes and voilà, you’ve just made a white lesbian couple very happy. But not, sadly, this lesbian couple.

I suppose it would be wholly wrong, and simplistic, to suggest that these potential problems could be obviated by doing away with sperm banks. And that for those who are not prepared to suffer the indignities of heterosexual intercourse, adoption might be the answer.

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Show comments
  • Grandma

    I’m sorry to say I wouldn’t want my grandsons to associate with little Payton, because a play date there would be nothing but grief and trouble. No one will discriminate against Payton because she’s black, but she’ll have no friends and a string of troubles in life because her “parents” are crazy, self-centred, selfish people who you’d never want to have anything to do with.

    • Rik

      Yuk what a distasteful story,nearly as distasteful as the as the new norm of aging celebrity queens rushing to adopt children here in the UK.

      • Chamber Pot

        No, it’s called a ” gayby “. I know this because I watched Borat.

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  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “Soon, having sex and having children will be utterly disconnected”
    Interesting comment. Obvious, but interesting.
    Recreation vs. Procration.
    “Guide to knocking the chick up”
    A publication not destined for the best-sellers’ list.
    And they call me a misoginist.
    Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

  • MikeF

    There is nothing new about the attempt to create blond, blue-eyed children as a matter of policy:

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/nazi-program-to-breed-master-race-lebensborn-children-break-silence-a-446978.html

    • bashstreetplug

      However, homosexuality was verboten under Nazi Criminal code.
      There had to be specific evidence though that sexual activity had taken place, so I don’t know whether the use of a turkey baster would have fulfilled the criteria.

  • DennisHorne

    Would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sad.

  • Neil Saunders

    It already is, Rod, and we are there already.

    Cultural Marxism is triumphant in the sociocultural sphere, just as Neoconservatism is triumphant economically and militarily.

    • Annette

      Did you mean to write that comment on Sociocultural Cultural Marxism Today, the oldest continuously published Tory fanzine in the world?

      • Neil Saunders

        You’ve lost me, Annette. Does your comment actually make sense, or are you essaying some cack-handed approximation to satire?

  • Tamerlane

    Can you sue the clinic if your sperm donation baby grows up gay? Love it when the PC out-PC themselves into contorted pangs of PC angst. As the Yanks would say – Good Job!

    • Shawayne

      That would be something that needs to be looked at carefully.

      • Barry & Yvonne St-Hargreaves

        Something else to consider is today is 10th September but the shambles of spilt soup and crumbs that is Rod Liddle says he posted the article this Saturday, the 12th.

        • MikeH

          Pah! That’s some real chutzpah from Rod alright. Or possibly some reverse time-traveling.

          The smart money however thinks it’s a sneak peek of Rod’s article for the upcoming Spectator magazine.

          • Barry & Yvonne St-Hargreaves

            Or yet another example of the cynical spin and rubbish peddled by the Barclay’s.

  • MikeF

    ‘Six vials’ – perhaps it was a case of buy five and get a ‘mystery gift’ one for free.

  • See, this is the sort of thing that provides a problem for live-and-let-live libertarians like myself. On the one hand, they’re free to live their lives in whatever way they see fit. On the other, this poor child has absolutely no chance of being normal after sadly spending her formative years in the company of these nutters. But then again, maybe she’ll surprise me and end up kicking back against it…

    • Mr Unimpressed

      Probably not. Western civilisation is imploding because civilisation itself was build with blood and sweat, something we in Christendom have forgotten. Now the only people who seem to have an idea about it are Muslims. I suppose we’ll have to rely on them to burn down sperm banks and do away with LGBTQX (to cite the present form of the initialism) activists when it all becomes too much… Ah well.

      “The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.

      2 “Vanity of vanities,” saith the Preacher. “Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”

      3 What profit hath a man from all his labor which he doeth under the sun?

      4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh; but the earth abideth for ever.

      5 The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteneth to his place where he arose.

      6 The wind goeth toward the south and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.

      7 All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.

      8 All things are full of labor; man cannot utter it. The eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.

      9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done, is that which shall be done; and there is no new thing under the sun.

      10 Is there any thing whereof it may be said, “See, this is new”? It hath been already in olden times which were before us.

      11 There is no remembrance of former things, neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come by those that shall come after.”

  • Jaria1

    That will come as a relief to some

  • GUBU

    ‘Man, woman, children conceived by arduous and humiliating bouts of sexual intercourse within a grim and monogamous marriage’.

    You’ve clearly met me and the wife, then.

    Yet this is a vision of paradise compared to the idea of being raised by two self centred lesbian ladies who evidently bought part of you from the IVF equivalent of Poundland, completed your conception through the misuse of a cooking utensil, and then have the temerity to express their disappointment at the result to all and sundry.

    Little Payton is the one who should be suing.

  • jeremy Morfey

    When Mary Shelley wrote Frankenstein, do readers give a thought to the feelings of the Monster, created without his consent, but none the less a living sentient being?

    • Mr Unimpressed

      That’s the point. In Shelley’s day, the book was stimulating because it entered into discussion on the outlandish ideas that man could circumvent God’s plan. The book was celebrated because it showed what disastrous consequences such hubris would have. Nowadays, Frankenstein is considered “kewl, brah” because it has a monster in it who f**ks people up – “brah!”

  • The Laughing Cavalier

    It is little wonder that the muslims think Western society is degenerate.

    • cartimandua

      Yes that’s right 4 wives 5 kids each hunger, unemployment, poverty and mass migration.
      Sooo much better (not).

    • Penny

      To be fair, that very much depends on their notion of what constitutes a moral and upright society. I’m not sure I’d share many of the values found in, say, Saudi society.

    • Cornelius Bonkers

      Er, is this supposed to be a recommendation for the isolated nuclear family?? I’m confused…

    • Ipsidixit

      Well I certainly do. But I also think that it is because our society is degenerate that it has committed suicide and imported millions of Moslems.

    • StephanieJCW

      Well I consider most Muslim societies degenerate so there you go.

  • John Steadman

    Yep, it’s a bit more distasteful than rich homosexual celebs goin around picking an infant or two off the shelf – but not by much, it seems to me. Every child needs…….

    • Neil Saunders

      Before long they’ll be able to buy DIY “gayby” IVF-at-home kits at IKEA.

  • Skyeward

    The issue isn’t really that they’re gay but rather they’re bonkers. Payton will learn what we all learn, you can choose your friends but sadly not your family.

    • Callipygian

      Or your birth name. PAYTON?

  • cartimandua

    It always was for blokes.

    • Annette

      Another example of libertarians coming over all censorious when it looks like somebody other than a white bloke might get some of their freedoms.

      • Neil Saunders

        What is wrong with being a “white bloke”?

        Are all white blokes bad?

        Would you make a disparaging comment on a public forum about women or any race other than white people? If not, why not?

  • rtj1211

    Actually, I think it’s far more likely with all the ICT-based surveillance technology around, the concept of privacy will disappear completely in the next 30 years so the term ‘private life’ will be one consigned to the interests of social historians. It is arguable that unless human beings as a species become rampant exhibitionists, that sex will die out in favour of super-turbo-charged IVF or AI or whatever. I mean, if if you price the procedure at the cost of a years condoms, it won’t even cost anything net, will it??!!

    The other scenario there is that all the brain-dead subspecies who are of absolutely no interest to the electronic control freaks as they have no net value to be stolen can happily keep on producing intellectually inferior oiks, whereas those who are supposed to be the future will be so spied-upon that they will become either impotent, frigid, exhibitionist, sperm-bank donors or simply childless.

    Do you want those sick f**ks at GCHQ knowing all about your sex life? Well, if you have economic value, they certainly will do by 2050……..

  • Baron

    So in short, Rod, both Jennifer and Amanda got fu$ked, whether they liked it or not.

    • blandings

      Deeply shocking quip, old chap.

      • Barry & Yvonne St-Hargreaves

        Who the hey still says “old chap” old chap?

        • blandings

          Me!

          • Penny

            Me, too!

        • Icebow

          I do. Troll.

        • I do, too.

          • Grace Ironwood

            🙂

        • Grace Ironwood

          “Old chap” is the next thing after fixies.
          Keeping You Ahead of The Curve 🙂

          • ViolinSonaten b minor.

            Agree Grace 😉

        • Nick Harman

          Anyone being dryly witty?

          • blandings

            I think we got it – mostly

      • Ridcully

        Funny, though.

    • Callipygian

      Baron, I’m amazed at you! :^[]

  • blandings

    May I be sensitive and admit to feeling sorry for the kid.
    This is a bad start in life.
    I am very, very sensitive.

  • edithgrove

    “Rates of lesbianism and homosexuality are much lower within black and ethnic minority populations than they are among whitey.” Where the hell does that bit of statistical nonsense come from?

    • Annette

      Same place as: Being drunk and flashing your knickers should be banned for women.

      He’s a silly old prude.

  • Tarik Toulan

    I wonder why the hell lesbian and gay couples want to have children?!
    Such perverts have already chosen their abnormal way of life that leads to having no kids naturally, but it seems many of them are so selfish and devoid of sense of moral responsibility that they do not care about the consequences of bringing about misery to innocent adopted or artificially produced kids.

    • edithgrove

      Islamic State, and Islamic states, have such laws I believe.

      • Tarik Toulan

        Sorry, it has more to do with social sanity and state stability than with religion; that is, if you fail to provide a proper environment for rearing the children, then you are taking the risk of having future criminals.

        • Singularis

          To be fair, straight people can be very rubbish at raising children, so in the interests of equality, gay people should also be allowed to mess it up, Jeremy Kyle wont make itself.

      • Mary Ann

        So

        • edithgrove

          so if you’re not happy here there’s a whole new world waiting for you, Luton to Istanbul about £165, one way.

    • Annette

      Because most people want children?

      • Neil Saunders

        Yes, but most people want children because they genuinely love them.

        Homosexual couples appear to want them to make some kind of political statement (and do so, of course, by dispossessing at least one of each child’s natural parents, thus bringing about the severance of biology and parenthood of which Rod Liddle has written).

        • Petra

          Appear to?

          Appear to whom?

          • Neil Saunders

            To anyone with their eyes open and their critical faculties operating properly.

        • Mary Squire

          Nonsense. You cannot possibly attribute motive according to sexuality. You are making it up as you go along. Be rational!

          • Neil Saunders

            Homosexuality specifically excludes the possibility of both biological parents forming part of a permanent couple (which has been shown to be the best environment for raising children).

            How much more rational do you want it?

            Are you prepared to gamble away children’s lives and wellbeing simply to confer social and political rights on a minority group in conformity with purely abstract (and currently fashionable) notions of equality?

          • samton909

            yes, she is,. We are now seeing children’s lives being gambled away, all for the sake of political correctness.

        • Mary Ann

          Why on earth do you suppose that a homosexual couple want to have children just to make a political statement.

          • Neil Saunders

            Because they are living a sexual lifestyle that inevitably and necessarily precludes the procreation of children in the normal course of events, and thus depend upon subcontracting at least one heterosexual person if they wish to acquire children (thereby proving Rod Liddle’s point about the severance of parenthood and biology).

            For your part, why on earth do you think that they don’t?

        • StephanieJCW

          Gay and straight people want kids for the same reason: a desire to be parents.

          • Neil Saunders

            Perhaps in a few isolated cases, but usually it’s a purely political gesture, designed to uncouple (if you’ll pardon the verb) parenthood from biology.

            Furthermore, should we privilege the wishes of adults over the wellbeing of children?

    • Mary Squire

      As a grandmother of two of “these poor kids” who were conceived with the help of a known sperm donor, may I offer a perspective on what it is ACTUALLY like for these children. My grandchildren aged 7 and 1 are happy, well-adjusted kids who love life and are perfectly normal, growing up in a household with healthy meals, bedtime stories, music and swimming lessons, just like other kids. OK they have two mums instead of a mum and dad but, unlike many of the posters on this page, other young parents these days don’t care and bring their children up accordingly so my grandchildren have suffered no adverse reactions from others. Teachers, health professionals and other parents seem to be quite matter-of-fact about it. They have regular contact with their dad who loves them and who travels down to attend important events such as birthday parties, starting school , school concerts etc. This family may not fit your ideal but dig deep enough into any family and you will find the less than ideal. We are all human beings, flawed but trying to do our best. Why the hate?

      • samton909

        Because it is a crime to deprive a child of having a mother and a father. Don’t pretend that gay marriages are exactly the same as straight marriages. Read the testimony of GROWN children of gay parents who describe an awful vacuum in their lives.

    • Mary Ann

      It’s not the parents that cause the problem it’s the homophobics.

      • Neil Saunders

        Proof of your assertion, please.

      • samton909

        No, read the testimony of GROWN children of gay parents who are now free to speak and think clearly about what they experienced. To purposely deprive a child of ever knowing what it is like to have a mother is an awful, heartless thing. We have come to the point where children are viewed as fashion accessories for the parents enjoyment.

      • Brentfordian

        Not in this case. If, as you suggest, the homophobics are making impossible the normal life that this couple require, then it’s blackophobics like this couple who are making impossible the normal life that ‘their’ child requires.

      • StephanieJCW

        Exactly. It’s the argument people use about interracial marriages. Oh they aren’t thinking of the kids! The problem isn’t the parents. It’s the bigots

  • Precambrian

    Well, I guess if you want to short-circuit the process of baby-making that’s what happens.

    • Annette

      Short circuits? IVF takes months.

      • Precambrian

        I was thinking more of the denying of the inherent function of the sex organs, by which nature give us the way to procreate, and then trying to make a baby in a contrived way.

        This isn’t IVF given because one party is disabled. Its IVF given because of a denial of the purpose of the sex organs.

  • Annette

    Nothing funnier than a bunch of virgins angry at lesbians for not having enough s*x.

    • The_greyhound

      Unless it’s silly, immature, or deeply unattractive wimmin who don’t realise that a man is necessary for s*x.

      • Feminister

        You aren’t necessary for s*x.

      • StephanieJCW

        A man isn’t necessary for sex.

    • Neil Saunders

      Which virgins are they, Annette?

      Do you think that virgins are bad? If so, why?

      Do you think that having lots of sex is an intrinsically meritorious thing, or only if it’s lesbians doing it? If so, why?

  • Picquet

    I want to see that picture of Hillary Rodham Clinton. It has to be a cracker. So to speak.

  • Velo

    I usually have a laugh when I read your stuff, Liddle. Especially when it’s about Millwall. In contrast this article is just hyperbole.

    • Callipygian

      In this case it’s life that’s hyperbolic: don’t blame Rod!

      • Velo

        The original headline on the story was. It gave the impression that men and women making babies was a thing of the past.

  • Bonkim

    With world populations exploding and resources running out, what is the point of homosexual/lesbians helped to conceive children. Regardless of skin colour (more with blacks) the youngsters thus conceived will have an unbalanced childhood and possibly grow into a homosexual.

    Society is bonkers to encourage disorder in its midst.

    • freddiethegreat

      Homosexuals should perhaps be forcibly cured?

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        Welcome to the 21st century, Freddie.

  • Singularis

    Rod, if you have a plan that means I can carry on watching NCIS rather than lug myself upstairs and do a Chippendales impression, Im all ears.

    • Annette

      While you’re here, guess who she’s chatting to upstairs?

      • Singularis

        She is chatting to me, she wants to watch NCIS too!

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    Isn’t, “No intention of procreating” grounds for divorce in the Catholic Marriage Handbook?

  • bamboo firbanks

    Rod and all of you are talking about human beings, one of those being a tiny innocent child. Maybe the couple couldn’t conceive. Maybe they really wanted to love a child. Maybe the child will be ok, (maybe she’ll even contribute to society in a way that will satisfy you all and match your undoubtedly dizzying heights of personal and financial success), as long as most of the people it bumps up against in life don’t hold views that are anything like as misanthropic as the majority of you all here today. Reading a Tory magazine doesn’t mean you have to spit on humanity.

    • ArtieHarris

      Are you one of those feminist activists who sets up a new Disqus account just to make one comment?

      • bamboo firbanks

        it’s the first time i have been moved to post on any article so my account was just set up yes. since posting i have been taking my children to school and then working, and not wasting too much precious time on comment pages with the likes of charmless little trolls like you. so the answer to your question is no. while we’re on questions though, are you one of those frozen little men whose horizons are so limited that he thinks anyone who stands up for other humans has to have an -‘ist’ or an ‘-ism’ tacked on to their description, and whose tone is so uppity, that deep down, despite seemingly being so full of gung-ho spirit, is actually quaking in his preppy little boots?

        • ArtieHarris

          Not a troll at all. It’s just as I said. Feminist activists often set up new disqus accounts to pretend to be something different.

          But your rabid unpleasantness suggests that I was at least partially correct.

          • Mary Ann

            I’m sure it’s not just feminist activists.

          • ArtieHarris

            Feminists also pretend to be men and say horrible things about women so that men get the blame for them.

          • Mary Ann

            Do they, It takes all sorts, how do you find out what sex a contributor is, we can all put what ever rubbish we like about ourselves.

          • ArtieHarris

            Did you see the horrible feminist protest against a lecture by Dr Warren Farrell on why boys are failing in education, and on why p0rn is not good for them?

            HERE IT IS …

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iARHCxAMAO0

            … it’s only 4 minutes.

        • Mary Squire

          Well put!

        • Ipsidixit

          Someone who stands up for other humans, as you boast, shouldn’t despise other humans with whom they disagree as easily as you do. You don’t hold the moral high ground even if you think you do.

        • liamjq

          what a boring self-absorbed twit you are

    • The_greyhound

      “Maybe the couple couldn’t conceive.”

      Mr Liddle did make it clear that these people were LES-BI-ANS. There’s no “maybe” about it.

    • lindzen4pm

      Not talking about the tiny innocent child just for the sake of it. There’s a story there which you conveniently ignore and then want to play your pathetic, infantile politics.
      Mind you, anyone who doesn’t know why two lesbians cannot conceive should not be taken seriously anyhoo.

    • samton909

      These are the depths to which we have sunk: “Maybe the child will be OK…”

    • Brentfordian

      You seem to be missing the point. The couple who ‘maybe … really wanted to love a child’ are aghast because the child is black. That’s the issue you have to deal with.

      ‘Maybe the child will be OK’? As long, of course, as ‘most of the people it bumps up against don’t hold … views as misanthropic …’.

      Don’t think the misanthropic views of Spectator readers and our ilk will be the problem, think the ‘tiny innocent [black] child’s” parents racist views might be.

  • Lady Magdalene

    I wonder if this appalling lesbian couple have made even the slightest attempt to conceal their disappointment from the poor child.
    Somehow I doubt it.

    • Ilana L

      @ladymagdalene:disqusPoor kid will read all about it one day. The best thing they could have done for her is to adopt her out to a couple who would love a kid no matter what colour and preferably a mum (woman) and a dad (man) combination. God the world is weird today.

  • red2black

    Tee hee.

  • ArtieHarris

    “One day kids will be a lifestyle choice, an accessory, devolved from notions of faith and nature.”

    Indeed.

    Artificial wombs will also remove the burden of pregnancy from women in the future.

    • StephanieJCW

      We can but hope.

  • Giuseppe Cappa

    Any heterosexual couple complaining about an adopted child being black would have raised outrage and would possibly have been prosecuted; the lesbian couple instead gets away with despising the black child they have snatched from his legitimate mother, who would probably love to raise a child but cannot afford it. This said, given the situation in the Western world, I think I will move to a country like Uganda, where vaginal sex is still a widespread practice.

  • Callipygian

    Serves them right: you can’t know what the sperm contains unless you know who it came from.

    Leaving aside the weighty moral issues, I should have thought that lesbians would know at least a few gay men. Presumably gays would be sympathetic to their plight and willing to offer the essential serum, free of charge. And then they would know something at least about the father, including his medical history, if that’s important.

    The alternative — mixing up all the serum from all the willing donors so you don’t know which one did the deed — would probably appeal to some women but makes me queasy. Next topic!

    Fifty bucks a go, all you have to do is stare at a picture of Hillary Clinton in a pleasant cubicle
    Rod, you are a devil!

    • Toy Pupanbai

      Very amusing, in a way!

  • Callipygian

    Ironic that Payton is a dumb-aspiration, unself-aware social-climbing surname-as-first-name, like Riley, Madison, Quinn, Taber (shouldn’t it be Tabor?), Skye, Hunter, Kendall, Dakota, Wylder — to name a few. (These are actual ‘first’ names, most of them for girls — though who can tell? — reported by my husband, who teaches high school.)

    It’s an American embarrassment, but the real kicker here is that the most famous Payton of all is Walter Payton, a black football player. And a man, of course.

    So Jen and Amanda have given their unexpected baby girl the name of a famously black heteros xual male. Hilarious.

  • The_greyhound

    So, the poor little mite has to call the turkey baster “Daddy” while a par of selfish immature oddballs ruin her young life. That child is entitled to a mother and a father who love her, not this demeaning travesty of family life.

  • Callipygian

    Update: the Munsters Clinton family. What a bunch of charmers. Why is Chelsea still wearing a hospital prison-bracelet after she’s left it? Is that a bragging point?

    More than anything, what is the expression on her deeply unimpressive sperm-donor husband meant to mean? Weird.

    http://celebritybabies.people.com/2015/09/09/chelsea-clinton-doesnt-want-daughter-charlotte-spoiled/

  • freddiethegreat

    Textual correction: “Appalling Lesbian couple. But then, I repeat myself.”

  • Grace Ironwood

    Hilarious.
    Poor little one. How could they. She will sue.

  • Ian Weaver

    So a bigot thinks lesbians shouldn’t have children because they will fall victim to discrimination by bigots. Sounds like a complete outrage of moral responsibility to me.

    • Neil Saunders

      Explain what you mean by a bigot. Why is someone you call a bigot a bigot? Why are you yourself, in your own opinion, not a bigot? If someone were to call you a bigot, why do you think that they would be mistaken?

      • Ian Weaver

        You know fine what a bigot is. To make a point that lesbians exercising their will to have children in a free society is immoral because their children would be harassed, and bullied is a ludicrous position. It brings to mind a wife beater who breaks his wife’s nose because she wasn’t home on time, or a muslim who kills a secular cartoonist. The victim may expect the outcome as a result of their actions, but it does not follow that they therefore deserved it or were wrong to do as they did.

        • Neil Saunders

          If it is bigoted to object to anyone, lesbian or otherwise, “exercising their will” (which sounds Nietzschian rather than genuinely left-liberal, as I think you probably intended) in ways that are cruel, anti-social or otherwise harmful, then I am proud to be a bigot.

          Your analogies are at once absurd (because not relevantly similar) and exaggerated (for reasons of emotional manipulation). Children should, wherever possible, be brought up and cared for by their biological parents. Treating them as commodities to pander to adult narcissism, lab rats in an experiment in social engineering or weapons in some kind of battle of ideas about the scope and limits of group rights is to instrumentalise them, and not to value them for themselves.

          • Ian Weaver

            I bet your one of those little treasures who believes in a vanishingly small government, except when someone is needed to enforce your particular prejudices, then society must be involved!

            You are a bigot, defending bigotry, because of the consequences of bigotry. It’s a circular argument.

          • Neil Saunders

            You’ll lose your bet. I’m well to the left of the mainstream politicians (including Jeremy Corbyn, if it isn’t too early to count him in) on economic issues, I oppose Neoconservative perpetual warfare and I’m unconditionally opposed to capital punishment (unlike Dianne Feinstein and the late Andrea Dworkin) as well as torture.

            By the way, if you think that circular arguments are valid then you’ve been misinformed, Ian.

          • Ian Weaver

            Yours or rather Rod’s is the circular argument, he justifies his bigotry because of the suffering children will be meted out by bigots like him.

          • Neil Saunders

            I don’t think Rod Liddle intends to “mete out” any bigotry, Ian; he’s simply warning that a child brought up in an abnormal or unconventional environment is likely to suffer ridicule and exclusion by his or her peers. You’re shooting the messenger.

            Your own argument is circular because you assume that anyone who opposes such artificially created “family” arrangements is presumptively a bigot. It’s “sentence first, verdict afterwards” and – needless to say – no appeal at the tribunal of the self-righteous PC brigade.

          • William_Brown

            Look Neil, it’s quite clear that anyone who disagrees with Ian is a bigot. Got it?

          • Neil Saunders

            Oh, I’ve got it all right, William.

        • StephanieJCW

          It is the exact same argument people use about mixed race relationships.

    • Hamburger

      There are many homosexuals who don’t think that homosexuals should have children. What sort of bigots are they?

  • rjxflat

    interesting.
    the key feature with kids is you don’t know what your going to get. want a baseball player get a computer scientist. then you find out what you got was better than what you thought you wanted anyhow.

  • johnhenry

    Forget Akron, lezzies. Move to Lesbianville MA. I’ve relatives who love it there.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    No lesbians here. We don’t even have vegetarians.
    Jack, the Japan Alps Brit

    • Labour Mole Catcher

      Whilst obviously having no wife and no kids … spoken like a true repressed homosexual!

  • WarriorPrincess111111

    Gay couples CHOOSE to be gay! So they should accept that they cannot have children since there is no natural way that they can conceive. When a child is born, that child has the right to be born to balanced male/female parentage. A child born by artificial insemination is given no choice!
    I know of two cases where children were brought up by (a)males and (b) females alone. In both cases, the children were isolated. Not because of homophobia – but when children associate, their parents become socially involved. The men discuss their work, hobbies etc and the women discuss the children and family life. Gay people cannot do that, they do not have the same involvement in family life. Because of that, other parents feel rather awkward in the presence of such parents, as they cannot interact in the normal way. This results in the gay couples being left out of social circles and the children become isolated.
    Both the children I have known have left school at the earliest possible time – they have not continued in education as they did not enjoy it. Both children have sought a relationship with the opposite sex – but with much older people of the opposite sex.
    Gay people can do as they wish, that is their CHOICE – but to involve someone who is too young to have a choice is so totally wrong and should be made illegal!

    • Ian Weaver

      Not a follower of science then.

      And is your best argument against homosexual couples is because gay people cannot be relied upon to make good chit chat at the village jumble sale? FFS

  • Toy Pupanbai

    She has no case.
    It cannot be proved where the sperm came from!

  • Clive

    Well, at least there is an answer to ‘who gives a toss’ – the donor.

    Black people are visibly black – there’s yer problem right there. That’s why black people are discriminated against more than Poles, say. You can’t tell Poles are Poles until they open their gobs.

    If the kid keeps its parents away from others then all anyone will know is that she’s black. Being black in a white neighbourhood could actually be an advantage if played well.

    Let’s hope she becomes the first black woman president. Time them bitches was given a shot.

  • Terry Field

    lesbians who use a sperm bank to feed their need to act as guardians to a father and a mother’s child is utterly selfish; obscenely and revoltingly consumerist-amoral and repulsively cruel to the poor child.
    THE worst of the modern era non-morality.

  • King Zog

    I laughed so hard at this I had to go to A&E.

  • StephanieJCW

    Adoption doesn’t help those who want their own biological child though. And heterosexual sex doesn’t help gay people or couples with fertility issues. Nor does heterosexual sex help single women who struggle to find a man who wishes to commit don’t want the risks involved with getting knocked up by a one night stand.

    That said why is the daughter seen as black? At most she is biracial isn’t she?

  • StephanieJCW

    As for the child’s culture. Culture does not cleave to one’s skin colour. Culture is just upbringing.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    All the comments deleted. The trade-off to the new “improved” layout.

  • Jackthesmilingblack

    “Spies Lords and Predators. Never shown in UK. Child murder & abuse investigation”
    YouTube
    Australia Channel 9, 60 minutes.
    Check it Britisher pals. Names are named while MSM publications like the Spectator sit on their hands and whistle Dixie.

    • Labour Mole Catcher

      You are probably into paedophilia yourself!

    • Labour Mole Catcher

      You are probably into paedophilia yourself!

      • Jackthesmilingblack

        We learn more about you every day.
        Rochdale wasn’t it? Child rape centre of UK.

        • Labour Mole Catcher

          Are YOU the Hongkong Chinese chap from Oxford, currently awaiting extradition from Hong Kong back to England?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            Hongkong, that’s a new one. Have we found a chink in his armour? So you no longer think I’m Japanese! Can this be a step in the right direction?
            When you wind up Mad Jock he really comes out with the most illogical rubbish.

          • Labour Mole Catcher

            The worst insult one can hurl against your race is probably to accuse a member of your fellow kind of being a Chinese! Incidentally, are you in fact paying me a perverse compliment (not to mention a gay flirt) by thinking that I am a Chinese?! Never heard of Chinese Gordon, I take it?!

          • Jackthesmilingblack

            As an Internet correspondent that has repeatedly asserted that only genuine Brits resident in UK should be eligible to post on a British MSM publication, this plumbs a new depth of hypocrisy, even for you.

          • Labour-Mole Catcher

            What the Phuc is “MSM”?! Who are you, David Icke?!

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