It’s all kicking off in the Islamic world. Nothing at all to do with Islam, of course

Benefit fraud is small Ovi, the system is simply far too comprehensive, and generous!
Certainly cutting out free translations would be on my list, among the etc…

“better spent on teaching English in my view”

Bollocks. Why should we have to pay? Immigrants should learn English before they arrive, and the initial interviews should be conducted in English. If they don’t understand, back they go.

What about English Speaking White refugees? Surely you will open your heart to them?

The Western Economies have already gone bust.

You never heard of a continent called Africa?

Guardian readers are routinely ignored by their own children. I say we follow suite.

It makes extremely good sense to treat such behaviour as the criminal acts they are, prosecute all events to the full extent of the law and where practised by illegal migrants or dual passport holders, revoke their UK citizenship and deport them.

Islam is basically Christianity about 600 years ago. It makes sense, because this useless religion was apparently ‘revealed’ about 600 years after Christianity. These peasants have had 600 years less to develop themselves than the West. Islam still hasn’t experienced its Francis Bacon, its Galileo, its Newton. They have experienced no cultural- and scientific revolution to speak of. There have been no great Islamic reformers, who preached tolerance and acceptance of a fellow brother as with Christianity, for instance. Instead, what you get is a few ‘damage control’ monkeys they put on television who are there to ‘assure’ the masses that Islam is about peace.
Nonsense. If it were about peace, then this peace would be openly preached, written about and enforced by its policy makers. That is what a religious reformation is all about. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out.

The solution to this is surprisingly simple. Mass deportations as well as sealing off these countries to basically kill themselves off. The West should leave these countries alone and stop trying to impose their values on them. Leave them be, but also ensure our own borders are protected. It might seem politically incorrect on the surface, but I’d rather be politically incorrect, than watch a mushroom cloud destroy an entire city and its surrounding areas. Leave them be, and maybe they’ll leave us alone too. And if they still insist on spreading their filth to our nations, you just seal them off in theirs and just make sure nothing gets in/out. Simple, but of course, politically incorrect.

So Plan B: let’s tolerate more of this for another 600 years until the Islamic world experiences its own enlightenment.

Too true, that was an offensive remark. Jesus didn’t behead anyone nor have 500 jews beheaded as they did in the Battle of Trench.

Heretics and blasphemers were burned at the stake in the middle ages.

Sodomites were first tortured, then hung.

Nowadays, xtians are all PC cowards who pee their pants rather than stick up for their religion. They are awfully embarrassed by it, in fact.

“Islam is basically Christianity about 600 years ago”.
Er, no it isn’t. The founder of Christianity distinguished between the spiritual and temporal spheres (“My kingdom is not of this world”), never called on his followers to kill unbelievers and rejected spreading his message by violence.
The problem with Christians is that many have failed to follow their founder’s principles. The problem with Muslims is that many of them do follow their founder’s principles.

The problem with Socialism is that it has never been done in.

Socialism has never been done right? It cannot be done right, it is a failed ideology.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome.

Absolutely correct.

I drew a clear distinction between what Jesus Christ said and how some of his followers have behaved. Your comment proves you cannot read properly.

A little too late, don’t you think?

They certainly do.

There are Moslem men with 3/4 wives on benefits in Britain, they apparently under Sharia Law say I divorce you 3 times and then go back home to marry again.

I hope your typing skills are as good as mine when you are over 70 and recovering from a stroke

“Manners” are what has created this mess.

Quite true my friend, but I spelled one word wrong once, Ovida spelled three words incorrectly, and benefits was spelled exactly the same way by her twice, ( benifits ) so I do not really believe her excuse, I am almost as old as her myself and even though I have not suffered a stroke I am aware that it caused physical impairment, not mental ones.

The only thing worse than a Leftie anti Semite is a Righty anti Semite.

Those people use Gas Chambers.

Only one group systematically exterminated 6 million Jews.

The other group offered them protection. This is because there are many Jews in left wing movements. Marx, Trotsky and Lenin were Jewish. 6 of the 7 leaders of the first Communist Party in Russia were Jewish, for example.

Here’s what Stalin (who had many Jewish mistresses, so loved the Jews in a carnal sense) had to say about Anti Semitism.

“National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.”

Forget what you heard about Stalin, Comrade. He was a real Mensch.

Tut tut, Adrian. You know very well that Jewish foreigners are to be held to different standards than those nasty Muslim ones.

So you would not approve of a uniformed religious police force patrolling the streets of London in cars that closely resemble police cars ? if not google Shomrim

Tell that story, do.

I have no objection to Israel defending itself, what I find appalling is their habit of capturing more and more territory and immediately expelling Palestinians who have lived there for centuries and building settlements for Jewish families, in total disregard for UN and USA disapproval and general world outrage. Just how big do they want Israel to become? How long before Gaza becomes part of Israel? Defense is one thing, illegal empire building is quite another.

It’s the darkies I don’t like. I can speak frankly, can’t I?

Charlie Hebdo and whatnot.

You can take the Son of Ham out of Africa, but you cannot take the Curse of Noah out of the Son of Ham.

Yes, it appears this “Freedom of Speech” is a charade.

Adrian,I hope that you are not unfortunate enough to encouter these thugs dressed as fake policemen driving cars indistinguisable from real police cars,as I did a few months ago in London

Honor killings origins are to be found in the Jewish Torah, the document from which the Muslims created their religion.

We religious Zionists have every intention of having these laws returned to Eretz Israel. Every intention. Is it not written in the Holy Torah?

Lev 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

“For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)

Deuteronomy 22

13 If a man takes a wife and, after sleeping with her, dislikes her 14 and slanders her and gives her a bad name, saying, “I married this woman, but when I approached her, I did not find proof of her virginity,” 15 then the young woman’s father and mother shall bring to the town elders at the gate proof that she was a virgin. 16 Her father will say to the elders, “I gave my daughter in marriage to this man, but he dislikes her. 17 Now he has slandered her and said, ‘I did not find your daughter to be a virgin.’ But here is the proof of my daughter’s virginity.” Then her parents shall display the cloth before the elders of the town, 18 and the elders shall take the man and punish him. 19 They shall fine him a hundred shekels[a] of silver and give them to the young woman’s father, because this man has given an Israelite virgin a bad name. She shall continue to be his wife; he must not divorce her as long as he lives.

20 If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the young woman’s virginity can be found, 21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.

But please, don’t let me ruin your fantasy with mere fact.

We Zionists will do it when we are able to. All laws shall we obey (Deuteronomy 30:1-3). Already Orthodox Jew Naftali Bennett threatens the leadership of Atheist Apostate Bibi Netenyahu.

We “Religious Extremists” appreciate your help in setting up our state, of course. We are nothing if not gracious.

The so called Sharia Patrols operated for only a couple of weeks last year,then were stopped by the police,Shomrim[rumoured to be armed] have uniformed men driving around our capital city in BMW lookalike ‘police’ cars,and will stop and question,in a menacing manner any body they deem to be ‘undesirable for their area’ I for one will take a damn good look at any ‘police’ car attempting to stop me next time I am in London,I am not the only one to have been told by these thugs that ‘this is a Jewish area’,there is a perfectly good civil police presence

The sharia patrols IF they were not stopped – and they have already sprung up in Germany and Belgium – would have very quickly expanded their scope of activities and you would have a situation akin to the Muttawaeen in Saudi Arabia and similar groups in Iran , Afghanistan , Aceh , Egypt and other places and that should be a cause of GREAT concern to any female muslim . If you think this would not happen then you are very naive. Whatever muslims think or believe sharia law does NOT apply in UK. I would actually agree with you about the patrol cars and I am surprised that the police allow this . I stand by my point that the Shomrim ARE a neighbourhood watch organisation and they do NOT accost people for the way they dress , holding hands or for drinking alcohol.

Sodomites, adulterers, blasphemers, pork eaters, apostates and fornicators are despised by both the Shomrim and the Esteemed Islamic Mujaheddin.

Esau and Jacob, Ishmael and Isaac, are brothers.

Sharia law is taken from Leviticus, Deuteronomy, Exodus and Numbers.

Why are these people so ignorant regarding the Semites, Ovida?

I find it odd YOU so ignorant of the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these inbreds then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish.

Well Avi Ben Gurion, I take it that you are a Jew, a Religion next to my heart only after my own, Christianity.
However I humbly submit that Judaism became Obsolete / Incomplete from the exact instant of the Death on the Cross of Our Beloved & Blessed Lord & Saviour JESUS CHRIST, & that the one & only singular purpose of Yahweh / Elohim in maintaining Judaism & Israel is because of His Covenant with Israel to end only on Judgement Day, which means that Israel shall hold Meggedah {of Armageddon fame} & the First Temple of Solomon {now only the Foundations remain, which will have to be measured in Rev. Chapter 11}, in order that the New Jerusalem of Revelation Chapters 20, 21 & 22 be accomplished.
All the Best, my Jewish Brothers & Sisters, in holding the Fort of Israel till Kingdom Come.
Thank You & God Bless.

You see, we aren’t interested in the end times. That would be one of the “Secret Things”.

Ours is just to follow the Law. Not very exciting for you Messianics, but our religion is not about excitement and drama. It is about obedience.

I find it odd that YOU can overlook the absolute hatred that islam holds for Jews , Israel ,and Zionism ?. Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem which muslims are not only desecrating archeologically but are physically preventing Jews praying there ?. Why is this Al Aqsa mosque regarded as the second most holy site in islam when Jerusalem is not mentioned in the koran ? If you wish to align yourself ideologically with these inbreds then Judaism is doomed.If you think that having a common revulsion is a guarantee of safety then you are grossly naive and foolish

“Why is there a mosque built over the site of the Temple in Jerusalem”

Because the whole essence of this primitive violent “religion” is taking over all it can.

After anexing all jewish holy places and historic religious figures, they took over jewish history, adopting the name “palestinian” (pretty odd choice given that their language doesn’t even have the letter “P”) and systemstically destroying any jewis archeological findings they get their hands on.

“those who do good and help people will surely have favour upon them when it comes to
their time!” Muslims read the bible , the Torah and their Quran!”

Any”good “Muslims do to people can only be to their co religionists, as
the Quran points out in 5.55.

“Your (real) friends are (no
less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- those who
establish regular prayers and regular charity, and they bow down humbly (in
worship).”

and
5.56
“As to those who turn (for friendship) to
Allah, His Messenger, and the (fellowship of) believers,- it is the fellowship
of Allah that must certainly triumph.”

Because:
3.32 Say: Obey Allah and the Messenger; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers.

The Muslim holy book is the Quran only, which is said to be the verbatim words of the Islamic god, taken to be eternal, clear to understand, and beneficial to mankind, the Bible then is irrelevant to any Muslim, as it is said to have been changed by man,and is not the literal word of Allah.

Pointing out a verse which contradicts other verses shows that Allah is not as consistent and clear as an omniscient being should be, or indeed is given to be in his book, said to be clear and easy to understand.

Peter,thank you for the references,I can now do some research.
As to your point that Islam does not follow the same G-d as Abraham,there are constant references to Abraham in the Quran,also the list of prophets includes Moses,Elijah and Jesus,your deconstrution of the word Allah only points to the same thing vis The God or acknowledging G-d without revealing his name exactly as in Judaism,Judaism acknowledges Islam as a true religion,but apostate,while it views Christianity as not only apostate but idolatrous,but to waste time over religious niceties is to avoid the main issue,the sooner that we all acknowledge that each others faiths are valid,we can get on with solving some of the real issues that the world faces,like bigotry,inequality,overpopulation and sensible exploitation of our worlds dwindling resources,what ever G-d you worship one thing is certain,he/she is not topping those resources up.
A Greenpeace spokeswoman once said a very wise thing;”It is time humanity realised that we do not inherit the earth,we hold it in trust for our Grandchildren”

And pointing out isolated verses without context is equally facile,have a good look at the hate verses in the Bible/torah

No Siree Bob Avi, methinks that the said Verses refer to the FREEMASONS from Solomon’s Temple-building who mixed with the Jews & corrupted them, the Freemasons who came from Babylon, Nimrod’s builders, who desecrated the First Temple of Solomon, so that Yahweh / Elohim had it torn down by Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon.
The Second Temple of Judaism was NOT BUILT TO YAHWEH’s SPECIFICATIONS because of restrictions on it’s height imposed by Cyrus the Great, so it too was useless to Yahweh & had to be destroyed accidentally or otherwise, by the Romans in the Jewish revolt of around 70 C.E.
And the THIRD TEMPLE of JUDAISM is the BODY & BLOOD OF OUR BELOVED & BLESSED LORD & SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF, RE-BUILT AT HIS RESURRECTION, & IN FULL GLORY ON JUDGEMENT DAY.
That is why the Third Temple of Judaism will NEVER be built in brick & stone, come Kingdom Come !!!
Perhaps the bloody Satanic Muslims have a part to play in preventing this re-building that is NOT REQUIRED BY YAHWEH !!!
And may I be forgiven for using the names “Yahweh” & “Elohim” in full, in my Posts.

Any violence held within the O.T.is to be read within an
historical context, it is descriptive only, not prescriptive as in the Quran, which contains open-ended commands to
all believers to wage war against and subjugate all non-believers. Also,no one is directed to imitate the actions of anyone in the O.T.for all time,unlike the Quran which holds Mohammed as the Muslims role model for all time and places.

216. Fighting is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it,and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

In this Ayah, Allah made it obligatory for the Muslims to fight in Jihad against the evil of the enemy who
transgress against Islam. Az-Zuhri said, “Jihad is required from every person, whether he actually joins the fighting or remains behind. Whoever remains behind is required to give support, if support is warranted; to provide aid, if
aid is needed; and to march forth, if he is commanded to do so. If he is not needed, then he remains behind.” It is reported in the Sahih:

(Whoever dies but neither fought
(i.e., in Allah’s cause), nor sincerely considered fighting, will die a death of Jahiliyyah (pre-Islamic era of ignorance).

Sahih Al Bukhari
Vol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 065.

Narated By Abu Musa : A man came to the Prophet and asked,”A man fights for war booty; another fights for fame and a third fights for showing off; which of them fights in Allah’s Cause?” The Prophet said,”He who fights that Allah’s Word (i.e. Islam) should be superior, fights
in Allah’s Cause.”

Sahih Al Bukhari
Vol 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 196.

Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah ‘s Apostle said, ” I have
been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ and whoever says, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,’ his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law,and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)”

How dare this Jew equate Islam with Judaism!

Surely she is one of the Synagogue of Satan, as spoken about in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9.

Karl Marx was a Jew, as was Trotsky.

I know what I am talking about.

Vote UKIP get UKIP, Islame should be banned, period.

“you getmuslim Amjad Bashir who wishes to associate with extremist muslim Pakistani politicians.” (sic)

Is that why UKIP booted him out and he joined the Tories ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11369574/Amjad-Bashirs-defection-from-Ukip-to-the-Conservatives-is-not-the-boon-it-looks-like.html

They’ve got(had) a Muslim MEP so what ?

“That is muslims who have nothing but contempt for Western society.”
” That is muslims who believe that sharia in islam is the absolute best way to organise society.”

Really ? you have proof of course ? before you answer I am well aware of the various Islamists using the LibLabCon as entryist organisations, UKIP will be no different but that still doesn’t mean they’re aren’t genuine secular-minded Muslims.

“I, for one, am not going to vote for a party which has in its membership
a group of people (connected by a common set of beliefs) which wishes
to see the end of all societies, including our own, which are not
muslim.”

Good for you, keep your absolutism but it’s not that black and white .
It might be in the endgame but for now it’s nowhere near it.

There’s a far wider context, not least several hundred million secular-minded Muslims.

But keep playing the game alQeada want you to.

I’m sure the BNP or whoever you vote for will get into government and set up mass deportations, not.

On the other hand one could try reality and vote strategically, to attempt to invigorate the jaded and undermined imitation of democracy we have in the UK.

Even that looks like a forlorn hope but has far more chance of success, than any party that shares your absolutism.

You spell “benifits” – its not a stretch to assume you have several identities here as your misspelling is shared with at least one other.

You have some excellent points but why oh why do you people have to bring your none existent God into every argument? This is 2015, not the 7th century, most of the world has woken up to the fact that at best religion is a confidence trick and at worst a downright lie. The most backward people believe most fervently in a god.

Why is ‘Ovida Yosef’ not a British name?

It was a question like any other: it would be good to answer rather than evasively insult. Why would ‘Ovida Yosef’ not be a British name?

Yes. I wanted to give him the opportunity to expound. He hasn’t taken it up.

It’s as if it is in the ground and it comes in various qualities this dangerous stuff. In its raw form, the sneering recognition of ‘difference’ has been there certainly all of my time in this country. Discomforting, but no-one physically harmed or made to feel threatened and so, imperfect life has gone on.

But there is now weapons-grade Jew hatred on our streets, processed overseas and imported on an industrial scale.

Our special highly toxic parcel delivered to our door by that blind, deaf, well-meaning simpleton, multiculturalism; its elbow held by oil-revenue and defence contracts.

Why not both?

You misunderstand. Your evasion was in not getting round to addressing my question. Instead you went straight to the ad hominem thing – filling comment space with invective in the absence of your being able to offer any relevant points.

Thus, my question remains unanswered and one can only deduce that you find it unanswerable.

I’m puzzled on the name thing: I keep dogs and I have very high standards – I am only interested in the best. I cannot, and don’t attempt to, escape the label that such a stance generates. Spelling? Please explain.

Keep taking the psychotropic medication, who knows, one day it may actually start to kick in! Oh God, I must be bored, why else would I continue to engage in a battle of wits with a clearly unarmed man?

It has been scientifically proven that cats are far more intelligent than dogs, and you don’t have to follow them around picking up their shite, I can just imagine you trotting around the park with your little plastic bag of doggy poo……oh what a sad but humorous image!

Too too boring and predictable, I’m off to watch some paint dry. Bye bye.

Yeah M.F.
“Throw the British dogs a bone or two”, U mutter to your scum-bros.
No matter.
All you Muslim swine, your time of Divine Retribution for all of your Crimes against humanity, is just around the corner.
And my brother Co-Witness & I will make sure that each & every one of you gets their just desserts, as per Chapter 11 of the Book Of Revelation of the Holy Bible.
It’s a promise.

And how do you intend to do that?
It would take an awful lot of fencing to erect a wall around Africa and the middle east.
And in the time being hundreds accumulate in Calais waiting for a free ride on a passing truck.

so that condones Muslim terror attacks, do yourself a favour and look up how many terrorist attacks have occurred since the new millennium. Stop trying to pass yourselves off as the puritans and by the way we have not forgotten the Ottoman empire-how many christian infidel heads your sanctimonious religion has murdered. No one can deny what the west has done, but Islam ain’t noangel either.

It is in the interest of the “West” for the global economy to be successful. It is not in its interest for the large areas of the world to be in constant turmoil and a breeding ground for terrorism.The breaking down of the Soviet Union as you put it was called the Cold War for ideological reasons. The current spat with Russia is not the fault of the West but of Putin who is obsessed with recreating the old Soviet Empire. The middle East is in turmoil due to its inability to develop any form of governance that is rooted in post englightment democracy and not religious or tribal suprematism. The west did not “feed” al Queda, Boko Haram, Isis, etc etc. Islam needs to wake up because our patience is running out.

Utter nonsense. It is in the interest of Islamist groups to have these countries in turmoil so they can blame the west and pursue their own agenda of relgious fascism.

An intelligent and measured assessment of the situation. Well done.

How about the role of some countries, like Saudi, in exporting extreme fundamentalism and intolerance. You can’t say religion has nothing to do with violence in the world. As the article says, why else would people start rioting over a (very harmless, inoffensive) cartoon of Mohammed and attacking innocent Christians. Yet they take no offence, and make no demonstrations, over 17 people people killed in the name of their religion. Kind of strange priorities.

Hi Safy! When you say “politics play a big dirty role” you may be forgetting that politics is all about THE WAY THINGS ARE DONE. In short, it is not about some disembodied entity from Mars, but represents real people from the society and their wishes about the way things should work. A society is a pressure cooker of all sorts of competing ideologies. After the colonial era in Africa and the Middle East most of those countries which sought and won independence have turned into anarchic, brutal and violent nations. Makes you wonder why they wanted to be freed from the shackles of western colonizing powers when a great number of them want to and DO head towards these same western powers. Meanwhile, their societies have been reduced to barbarous tribes.

Unintelligent is the best spin I can put on it all.

Africans started the slave trade, read your history

It started long before that, north Africans were raiding southern Ireland and southern England for slaves a couple of centuries before the slave trade with America

I guess Africans know each other better. I could be wrong.

Yes sir, everyone is prone to mistakes and that includes me. It’s not wrong to admit when I am wrong. I am not as bad as you might picture me.

And did you stop them or join them sir?

I love your use of the passive “became involved in”, as if we Brits weren’t the main instigators and just happened to join the party as everyone else was doing it.
But you save yourself with the active “the British then strove…. to abolish….” Why, hurrah for us, putting an end to what we (didn’t) start) we are heroes one and all!

“The Brits came to the slave trade after the Portugese and Spanish involvement . . . .”

The Spanish and Portugese inherited the infrastructure of the slave trade from muslims, during the Reconquista.

How so?

Did you stop the muslim fundamentalists or will you be joining them sir?

All African slaves were castrated by their arab masters to Arabia in order to prevent reproduction. Despite the high death rate from such barbarity this ensured a continuous requirement for slaves and business for the muslim arab traders.

The widespread practices of the arab slavers on their African slaves are well and reliably documented.

While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military service.

While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.

While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families, most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.

It is estimated that possibly as many as 11 million Africans were transported across the Atlantic (95% of which went to South and Central America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions. Only 5% of the slaves went to the United States).

A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the American slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts. While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men, the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for every man were enslaved by the Muslims.

The hate oozes out of your comments. You can’t help yourself, can you? If you don’t like living in a Western country, please leave. Go somewhere where you can can watch the daily beheadings, if that’s what you want to do and if that’s what will make you happy! There is NO point in arguing with a taqqiya artist like you.

Yes, the slaves who were the most effective troops for their Muslim masters were the Janissary – former Christians.

Those Egyptians! Using slaves as human cannon fodder. How noble is that? Keep telling us how good you think the barbaric slave owners were, and how you praise them. We shall judge you accordingly.

Rife? A little strong. But you could argue normal in islamic countries.

As you say there were no decendants of eunuchs,but bear in mind that the western culture condoned the castration of young boys to preserve their singing voices,the last known castrati died in the mid 20th century

How do you do that?

Yeah women aren’t allowed to feel pleasure.

True – the best known example, of course, being Farinelli. However, this was not true of all of European culture. It was mostly an Italian thing. The British, on the other hand, whilst greeting such famous singers as Senesino and Carestini with adulation, never went in for castrating their own singers. Interestingly, the singing – and, indeed, the service in the Temple – of eunuchs, was strictly forbidden under Jewish law.

Blind, deaf but certainly not dumb. You won’t win.

My ‘defence’ of what exactly ?

We are not demonising Arabs. We are just showing their true nature. Their behaviour was inhuman.

pure, unadulterated bull – as ever, the arab slavers forced the black peoples to become muslim just like they did everywhere else

Male African slaves were castrated on capture by the Arabs as a matter of course.

In the unlikely event of such a slave being able to return to Africa, he would not have been able to pass on the religion forced upon him to later generations.

and once the millions of slaves shipped out from Chole island and other places were worked out, they were killed – there are no blacks in Saudi or the gulf states
the Americans fought a war to set them free – plenty of blacks in America

Not only were the Arabs the biggest slave traders, they are still active in the slave trade.

Africans are continuing the slave trade – watch any non-BBC/ Channel 4 TV station.

Not true. Read up on the Barbary Pirates who enslaved millions of Europeans in 17th & 18th centuries.

Who is this “we” you seem to believe you are associated with?

And Muslims STILL keep slaves today!

Exactly. The Catholics knew that Christ told them to love each other but the moslems pushed and pushed until it was TIME TO PUSH BACK.

Naw,It was Martin Luther who tried to convert Catholicism to Protestantism,John Knox who tried to convert Scotland to Calvinism,Henry V111 King James V1 Oliver Cromwell who all tried to convert Ireland to Protestantism,and many did die rather than convert

Yes sir, my point was that not only Muslims use religion to serve their own agenda, be it political or personal. I am a Muslim and am totally against violence and racism and hatred of all kinds and that is what I teach my kids. I gave my daughter the choice to wear the head cover or not, which she chose not to and I personally buy her short skirts and nowadays fashion stuff to wear. Islam is not what you see on TV by a few extremists and radicals who like I said interpret Gods words only to serve their own agendas and not how it was supposed to be. I am defending and not the Muslims because I know my religion and what you see from those people and a few others here and there who do it all wrong is definitely not Islam. I hope that clears out a few things.

So you are defending islam, the doctrine of terror, with allah as the terrorist in chief? allah who is nothing more than a sadistic psychopathic bully. If he were to appear in the West, he would be taken into custody for his own protection and the protection of those around him.

Like you, the terrorists say they know their religion. By their words, and especially their actions, they say it is a doctrine of terror. Why should I believe you instead of them?
And I have read the koran, and the history of mohammad, and the terrorists have it right. And by your ignorance of the real islam, you are indirectly helping muslims to subjugate non-muslims in accordance with the wishes of allah, the terrorist in chief.

I beg to differ!

‘The later Middle Ages saw the growth of considerable abuses. Greedy commissaries sought to extract the maximum amount of money for each indulgence.[44] Professional “pardoners”[2] (quaestores
in Latin) – who were sent to collect alms for a specific project –
practiced the unrestricted sale of indulgences. Many of these quaestores
exceeded official Church doctrine, whether in avarice or ignorant zeal,
and promised rewards like salvation from eternal damnation in return
for money.[42] With the permission of the Church, indulgences also became a way for Catholic rulers to fund expensive projects, such as Crusades and cathedrals, by keeping a significant portion of the money raised from indulgences in their lands.[42] There was a tendency to forge documents declaring that indulgences had been granted.[42] Indulgences grew to extraordinary magnitude, in terms of longevity and breadth of forgiveness.’ Source: Wikipedia

I know people denounce Wikipedia but if you check the references, as I had with ref to the above coming from the Book of Jubilees, I don’t see that harm from using it as a source.

You stupid fool ,Catholics were never Protestants,The Catholics rightfully fought held Crusades against the other Christian denominations you mention to DEFEND the Catholic Church.That was mainly in the past.Today the mainstream Christian denominations,are in harmony n the Ecumenical Movement,while the muslms still live in the barbaric medieval world of torture beheading whip lashing

Check this out on—Catholic-Orthodox Joint Declaration -Vatican. VA—–Joint Catholic-Orthodox declaration of His Holiness Pope Paul V1 and the Ecumenical Patriach Athenagoras 1,December 7,1965—-They(Catholic and Orthodox)directed their censures(excommunications) against THE PERSONS CONCERNED,NOT THE CHURCHES.These censures were NOT intended to breach ecclesiastical communion between Rome and Constantinople.
These censures have now been lifted by both Churches,both now work in reconciliation and ECUMENISM.
Check—–catholicbridge.com/catholic/orthodox/does_the
So Catholic and Orthodox were NEVER Protestant.The very word Protestant was first used by Lutheran Princes at Diet of Speyer 1529AD,and by Luther and Zwingli to distinguish themselves from Roman Catholics.
Your quote about Fundamentalist Christians(PROTESTANTS) bears no hold.They are bigots self made supposed Christians ,who detest Muslms Jews Catholics and not part of Ecumenical Movement.It is they who are part responsible for the illegal war in Iraq,it is they who are responsible for SOME of the persecution of innocent Christians in Pakistan.They make their own interpretation of Bible like most Protestants do,that is why thee are over 30,000 man made Protestant Churches.The Catholic Church is and ALWAYS has been one in communion with the Pope,Eastern and Latin Rite Catholics have their own Cultures and Rites in communion with the Pope.Look before you leap and dont make unfounded acqusations.For THE FACTS,read Catholic Encyclopedia,Catholic Answers.Com,Catholic Apologetics

I know all about the schism,no need to check it out.I suggest you check out the Catholic viewpoint in the information i gave you,also in ,Catholic Encyclopedia,catholic.com/answers,Catholic Apologetics.
There is also i very good Catholic viewpoint in,—catholicbridge.com/schism1054

Indeed, people forget that North Africa and some of the Middle East used to be Orthodox Christian, and Iran was Zoroastrian, before the religion of Peace people arrived with a different idea. Muslim armies came right up into the middle of France through Spain before they were stopped, and into Eastern Europe until they were stopped in Vienna, as far as I recall.

I’ve not had time to look at this, but it seems to be about Arab achievements. I didn’t say anything about that. I would agree Arabs in the MIddle Ages made contributions to algebra and chemistry and created some beautiful architecture etc. But that’s not got much to do with Islam as such, or the fact that they tried to expand the Islamic world by force. The teachings of Mohammed were to subdue disbelievers where ever you find them, until – if they are Christians or Jews – they submit to being second class citizens and paying the jizyah – or until they convert if they are polytheists or atheists.

Maybe u are right…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZDe9DCx7Wk

The Crusades were undertaken because the Jews in Jerusalem asked for help against the vicious moslem hordes.

That is true,but the break between Byzantium and Rome was instigated by Rome in 1053/4 a full 40 years before the first Crusade,which established Outremer,the second and third crusades were to defend Outremer,the fourth Crusade in 1204 sacked Byzantium,murdered most of its Christians,and left the last bastion of Christianity open to the advancing Turks

Actually, in Jerusalem, Jews fought shoulder to shoulder with the Muslims. The Crusaders massacred more Jews on the way to the Holy Land than they killed Muslims, once they got there.

I am political science student. I read everyone is comments, not trying to be a judge here but will make a comment for all the folks.

“Men never do evil so
completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” (Blaise
Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

I am a muslim, and I do believe that our muslim world is absolutely ignorant and trying to know nothing. Yes, accept the fact that terrorism is connected to the Religion of Islam, only if we understand this fact and allow democratic values in Islam and realize the fact that we are no more living in the 14th century. Islam is not DEMOCRACY by itself! Promotion of secularism is IMPORTANT in Islam.

No offense my muslim fellows: There is a reason of fear and shame for all the muslims that they do not condemn the terror acts of muslims anywhere in the world openly. Its the culture and ISLAMISM. We need to break that fear and come out and accept or atleast admit the fact that our religion is not open to democratic values and we need to do something about it.

The credit for terrorism and fanatical Islam goes to the Arabs and their non-sense SHARYA LAW!!!

I writing my thesis on Breeding grounds of fanatical Islam and terrorism.

I do not think its funny! It is a serious matter. You don’t have to tell me what Quran says, I am well aware of the quran verses and how it can be interpreted.
Do you still follow the bible verses that talks about extermination of nations In 1 Samuel 15:2-3 “…..Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'”
Eye for an Eye ” etc? I am assuming the answer is No , correct?

The reason why you or any other christian says no to extremism and violence is due to promotion of ideas such as secularism or democracy. I am talking about such revolutionary change in Islam and Islamism as well.

Do you agree?

Islamism is the biggest challenge to the muslim world. The believe that sharya is the law and the believe that Islam is democracy is FALSE and a complete failure.

I do not like your sarcastic laughter. Lets talk like noble people and explore knowledge to seek solutions for the problems.
Thank you

Not sure I follow you, Wordtothewise. Who/what was
the Franks, not the Christians”?
Nor am I sure what you mean about Wikipedia. I have not used Wikipedia.

muslims were persecuting Christian Pilgrims going to the Holy Land,that’s why the Crusades were called

I repeat again.Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople asked Pope Urban to call a Crusade because Christian pilgrims going on pilgrimage to Holy Land were being persecuted by muslims.FACT so dont try to convince me otherwise for it just wont work

Why do muslims always refer to situations that happened centuries ago. Fact is that all other religions in Spain under islamic rule lived as dhimmis and NOT as equals. And HOW do you justify the fact that nearly every muslim country today has a negligible number of Jews and few Christians. It is no accident that the islamic populations of Saudi Arabia , Kuwait , Afghanistan , Yemen , Oman , Somalia , Mauritania , Mali , Chad , Sudan , Algeria , Morocco , Indonesia , Iran , Syria , Iraq , Jordan , Pakistan , Bahrain , Qatar etc are virtually 100 % muslim. ALL other religions have been or are being driven out , exterminated or persecuted into extinction.

Are you from a moslem country?

I am political science student. I read everyone is comments, not trying to be a judge here but will make a comment for all the folks.

“Men never do evil so
completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction.” (Blaise
Pascal, mathematician, 1670)

I am a muslim, and I do believe that our muslim world is absolutely ignorant and trying to know nothing. Yes, accept the fact that terrorism is connected to the Religion of Islam, only if we understand this fact and allow democratic values in Islam and realize the fact that we are no more living in the 14th century. Islam is not DEMOCRACY by itself! Promotion of secularism is IMPORTANT in Islam.

No offense my muslim fellows: There is a reason of fear and shame for all the muslims that they do not condemn the terror acts of muslims anywhere in the world openly. Its the culture and ISLAMISM. We need to break that fear and come out and accept or atleast admit the fact that our religion is not open to democratic values and we need to do something about it.

The credit for terrorism and fanatical Islam goes to the Arabs and their non-sense SHARYA LAW!!!

I writing my thesis on Breeding grounds of fanatical Islam and terrorism.

HR eh? Now that’s a broad term.

hahaha. What a ridiculously ignorant view of history. You should try reading a few books before you start spouting twaddle like that.

No Allen, I clearly wasn’t addressing you. I was replying to Safy. And I do read and study. In fact not only do I read and study, but my interests are wide, and unlike a large percentage of the population, I have the time to indulge my interests by spending most of my time reading up on them.

Please don’t humble yourself so much. You have every right to your opinion even if it is wrong.

Oh. I didn’t see that! I thought he was being servile.

Islam is just like all other races. Problem is they revolt in stupid manners and can be barbaric if uneducated which brings a shame to Islam itself. However, again that doesn’t mean Islam is bad it just means that some Muslims are selfish and disgusting poisoning the reputation of Islam and making it hard for the normal Muslims to live in peace and not just the West or other religions. I just wanted to point out that even other religions throughout history had their own crap so let’s not generalize or specify and instead let us unite and stop racism and extremism.

There are as many ‘races’ and sects in Islam as there are in Christianity and Judaism and atheism

Bigotry is however relevant,be it racist or religious

You know very well that when people say ‘racist’ they are referring to the Human race, i.e. Homo sapiens.

Ever wondered why those few Muslims here and there are causing chaos even to their own kind? It’s too politically deep rooted and long to discuss here but in short.. even the Muslims themselves do not approve and are sick of it. That is why they are uprising across the region to gain their freedom and live a normal peaceful life not under the influence of the western politics who feed the terrorists and extremists with money and weapons to continue keeping the Middle East unstable and the African countries barbarian and the Asian countries poor and illiterate so they can advance in peace. It just all backfires and everyone regardless whom it is pays the price including the Muslims. If you know what I mean.

It was Obama, the Sunni moslem, who provided weapons to the Anti-Assad fighters. It was nothing to do with ordinary people, the ones that are now endangered by rabid fanatics. We weren’t even asked what we should do. I was all for carpet bombing the whole desert and I told my MP so.

At least the Irish were native to our country. They didn’t arrive on the last boat and then start demanding what they wanted!

I know it very well sir and that is why I am here to point it out.

I didn’t say that Muslims are not racist. I asked to stop racism. Yes many Muslims are racist and silly, however, equally so many others are educated and do not hold that crap in their hearts. Just sayin

You chaps seem to know a lot about moral superiority.

I see that like a great many muslims you are anti-semitic.

This is what its all about isn’t it, the Jews.

Wow is that all you came out with from what I wrote.. not surprised really 🙂

That’s the only thing he would be able to understand from your good reasoning.

Muslims were enslaving people long before America or England. and killing if you wouldn’t convert….the Scots, Irish and Welsh were shit on too by the English…so don’t say it was UK

Go tell that to the Muslims, we are sick of it.

Yes sir I agree Islam is a religion and not a race. Thank you for clarifying.

And your documentary evidence for this is? You’ll need to be a bit more specific.
For two hundred hundred years or so after the death of Christ, Christians were more persecuted that the other way round. In England, even up to the 6th and 7th centuries, Christianity was by no means the dominant religion.
Against Islam to keep slaves? I think Mohammed himself contradicts you on that.

You’ve had some strange history taught to you. In the 1st century AD it was the Christians who were persecuted by the world, particularly the Romans. Pliny the Younger writes about it. He asked what he should do if he encountered a Christian and Trajan told him to watch them but not arrest them. You’ve surely heard of the Christians and the lions in the Colosseum?

WTF? What do you mean, 95% all done by Muslim? What’s done by Muslims? Yes, Muslims may be to blame for the Christian deaths and this isn’t really racism but you are going a bit to far when you say we are trying to impose Sharia law. Not all of us aren’t. Only those who don’t understand the Muslim Holy Book where it says : There is no compulsion in religion.

Excellent comment.

The hadiths which are all said to be reliable by Islamic scholars, even the third from Sahih Al Bukhari demonstrate that leaving the Islamic faith demands the death penalty.This means that there is compulsion in Islam.

Even if you were right(which you are not) in your claim that it is usual for apostates to be disowned by their families, leaving a faith does not constitute being murdered for it.Only in the Islamic faith is this sanctioned

It is my choice whether I stay part of a religion Mr B**chy Parker. The main objective is what you are mistaken about. The main objective is to be a good Muslim and get to heaven. What you have mentioned is dawah, which means to notify people of Islam, not killing them until the convert/revert. Children were never taken as slaves, and the British took slaves too if you remember. The right hand possessions were people who lost their husbands in battle and had to surrender. Please learn different interpretations. Islam means peace, it is peaceful and have peaceful teaching but unfortunately some ‘Muslims’ are not peaceful.

Yes it is your choice to be part of religion. Equally it was Hitler’s choice to be a nazi. Neither you nor Hitler are right.

You confuse the objective of islam and the objective of some unspecified person. In the sight of allah, someone who spreads islam by violence is a “better muslim” who will have more chance of getting into paradise than a “good muslim”

islam and and its texts support the view that anyone who opposes islam should be eliminated.
Whatever the British did, that does not exonerate muslims.
“Right hand possessions” were female slaves. Nothing can justify slavery.
islam does not mean “peace”, it means “submission”. The koran, ultimate source of islam, is a doctrine to spread islam by war and terror. And a doctrine to keep you in constant fear that you will be tortured in hell, like non-muslims,

So much for being kind to someone’s belief. What do you mean ‘he wrote..’. He didn’t write it and there is no difference between the verses told to the Prophet pbuh in Mecca or Medina.

You make some valid points of course. But the analogy is being made between religion and actions. The above things you mentioned (especially the Crusades) had nothing to do with Christianity or the Bible (even though some of it may have used the name “Christian”- that means next to nothing). The best test I can see is to see what the text itself actually mandates. For the Bible, it is clear from the words of Jesus: “Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, less those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you…” (Luke 6:27)

Let’s get back to the NOW time not the historical past, we can’t change what happened then but we have learned from it. Well some have, others just want to live in that painful past and force their doctrines on the rest of us. No one is saying that only good was done in the past but today only terribly bad things are being done to try and dominate us through fear and Islamic terrorists are making the most effort at doing this. They will never accomplish a Muslim takeover as the western world would go to war to prevent this from happening. God only knows what will be the final outcome, but whose “God”?? If there is one at all !!!

Totally respect your point of view Colin.

It would be incomprehensible to believe any “God” would allow the evil destruction and cruel pain that has been inflicted upon mankind, past or present. If there is a God who is ok with such horrific happenings, he/she/it can get along without me thanks.

muslims living in Europe are out breeding white Europeans 8-1,who is to say they wont dominate Europe,and use our democratic voting system to out vote us,and so democratically impose shia law on us all,thus ending democracy as we know it,with their whip lashing,be heading ,stoning to death for blaspheming their false prophet and false religion and in this event the so called moderate muslims wont turn against their neighbours of other faiths,like they did in Iraq when the devils ISIS took over.we all know what happened when minority Nazi party took over Germany,and minority Communist party took over Eastern Europe,so the muslim takeover could happen.As for the Crusades,they kept the muslims out of Europe,while European Governments opened their doors and let them walk in like they will let Turkey int EU.So enjoy your pint of beer and slice of pork while it lasts

That was in the past,muslims still live in their medieval world of be-heading stoning to death whipping etc,that could happen in Europe if islam is allowed to flourish and takeover

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
Watch this, Why we are afraid by Dr Bill Warner.

What happens today is affected by history,the actions of one country towards another lasts for centuries,witness anti German feeling in Britain,anti French feeling in Britain,anti Russian feeling in the USA thirty years after the fall of communism.
Those who do not understand their history tend to bigotry and despotism

Blunt but absolutely spot on!

Wildly inaccurate statistics. Britain only invaded and colonialised about one third of the world. But long before that, Islamic hordes invaded Africa and Europe (Spain, Hungary – they reached the gates of Vienna).
But the main point is, the Western world has evolved – the Islamic world is still living in the Middle Ages, persecuting non-believers, gays, women etc.
And only Muslims murder people for daring to make fun of their religion.

that’s been debated

sadly you forgot that 90% of all slaves were sold by the chiefs of the villages to the whites, but to bring some sanity,slavery has been around some 3 thousand years, the romans sold english slave as far down as saudi arabia, read your history, if you can

But we have reformed and become civilised Safy, we recognise the misdemeanours of our ancestors and take care not to repeat them. Islam, however, is committing atrocities today, right now, rape, murder, enforced conversion, genital mutilation, genocide even. You simply cannot compare the radical Islam of today to the mindset of a less enlightened age and say that we in the West are as bad as IS or the Taliban, they have the opportunity to study history too and not to take part in such barbarity, but they have rejected that option in favour of a backward thinking religion which needs to be eradicated from the planet.

My that you insinuate it was all done in the name of christianity, or was it Judaism, or Hinduism.
Look over there!

How did you get in?

I actually did live in Muslim countries until I moved here 4 years ago and I assure you they are not the best. I am only waiting for my scholarship to end so I can finally go back. That’s not the point though.. the point is you guys need to stop being ignorant and racist and remember that most of those countries (African or Asian that your country took over for years and stole their goods and enslaved them) should have been educated and civilized to prevent any of those chaos events from happening. Just sayin

Really on what basis sir.. oh yes.. freedom of speech is prohibited for non British people I guess.

Dear Safy, you mention that you’ve been for four years on a scholarship? This guff you’ve been delivering, is that what your “scholarship” has been teaching you?

If it’s about “race”, where are all the Spectator readers worrying about Sikhs or HIndus? You can’t just blame it all on “racism”, Islam unfortunately has a lot to answer for.

I’ve not studied the texts and commentaries enough to be able to answer definitively, but it is a fact that the sheer number of direct calls in the Koran for readers to hate or be violent to non-believers is notable, and makes it somewhat hard to take it seriously and have respect for people of other faiths. What is the correct context,for example for this verse? It’s not at all clear from the Koran:

9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.

The hadiths also contain numerous examples of violence that we would find intolerable today, and direct instructions to, for example, kill apostates or people who insult a prophet, which goes against western belief in freedom of belief and expression. If you read something like the Bible there is far more narration of stories, whereas the Koran contains far more direct addresses and threats (ie. of hellfire for not believing) to the reader. Also there is nothing much to be found directly instructing violence against non-believers in the Bible. There are some violent Old Testament laws, but the Jews and Christians no longer agree with them, and there are stories of battles, but that are obviously (from the text itself) in a specific context, whereas the instructions in the Koran usually aren’t and you have to have also studied the commentaries and hadiths etc, which not everyone is going to do (and even then, I’m not convinced they always allow for a peaceful interpretation). A language researcher looked at the holy books of 10 faiths and found that objecctively, Muslim ones were more warlike and contained more incitements to violence against other faiths.

http://fjordman.blogspot.fr/2005/09/islam-is-most-warlike-religion.html