James Delingpole

The greatest joy of playing Grand Theft Auto V? It lets you give the finger to the PC brigade

27 September 2014

9:00 AM

27 September 2014

9:00 AM

The last — and only — time I had sex with a whore she was so impressed by my performance that she begged me to do it all over again. I thank the drugs. Before popping out in my stolen car for my rendezvous with my skanky ho, I had smoked a couple of fat blunts which I’d found ready prepared for me by my bitch next to my beer fridge and it put me in just the right mood.

But none of this was ‘real’. I was playing the video game Grand Theft Auto V (GTAV) and enjoying the transgressive thrills of living the life of a young black hoodlum in inner-city America. It’s an experience I can highly recommend, not just because you get to steal flash cars, deal drugs, drive the wrong way down one-way streets, change into any number of hoodies and cool sneakers, and shoot people — but also because as you’re doing it you’re sticking a defiant finger up to the Man. Or more specifically, to the stifling worthiness of our modern culture whose default position on innocent pleasures like this is to condemn them for their outrageous sexism, racism, misogyny and violence.

And yes, maybe games like GTAV are all those things, but it doesn’t seem to do them much harm at the box office. Au contraire: on its release last year GTAV became the most successful entertainment product in history, earning $1 billion within its first three days of release. No doubt the superb gameplay was a draw. As were the groovy soundtrack and state-of-the-art graphics. But the clincher, I suspect, for a lot of its young male fans, was the sheer joyous escapism into a universe where you can still act out your most politically incorrect fantasies without some professional victimhood group like 350.org or Everyday Sexism demanding you be carted off in the Outrage Bus for compulsory re-education.


You only have to consider briefly what has happened to the various other branches of the culture and entertainment industry to appreciate how rare this is. We live in a world where basketball club owners and football managers are expected to converse, even in private, like Harriet Harman at an equality seminar; where Hollywood scarcely dare cast an African-American in any role other than police chief, supreme court judge or the voice of God; where the crazed terrorists in TV dramas are invariably rogue Mossad agents or crazed Christians; where you can mock any religion you like on stage, provided it’s not the Religion of Peace. Gaming is the last bastion, the Helm’s Deep of freedom of expression.

Some say the reason that the computer industry managed to get so rich is that it grew faster than government’s ability to constrain and regulate it — and something similar probably explains the untrammelled rise of the games industry. You’re probably not aware — most people aren’t — that it is now bigger than Hollywood, worth $80 billion a year. It rose without anyone noticing, because gaming has long been unfairly stigmatised as an activity for malodorous bedsit-dwellers rather than cultural trendsetters. And it grew to be so enormous by doing what other branches of the entertainment industry have largely forgotten: not by giving punters what they ought to like, but what they actually want.

I tell you all this by way of background to a scandal which, over the last few weeks, has riven the world of joysticks, consoles and zombie Nazis. It is called, inevitably, Gamergate. For the full story I recommend you Google ‘GamerGate Milo Yiannopoulos’. He helped break it and has been following the details closely. Some of them are quite insalubrious, especially the one about the female games designer who allegedly slept with a number of journalists and games industry figures, allegedly to help promote a game she had designed.

More broadly, the scandal is about militant feminism and left-liberal entryism. Pretty much every games journal in the industry, it seems, is now in thrall to an achingly right-on cabal of writers, editors and bloggers who collude, via a secret mailing list, on how to shape the news agenda for their political purposes. This has led to a slew of stories about sexist bias and misogyny, fuelled by a vocal group of female wannabe games designers playing the professional victim card in order to advance their cause and their careers.

So far, so nothing all that scandalous, you might think. But this is what makes the story oddly fascinating. In any other industry but gaming, the antics I’ve described above have become routine: no one is remotely surprised any more, for example, when climate scientists and green activists collude with wildlife charities, politicians and environmental correspondents to put across the ‘correct’ message. As for the feminazis, they’re everywhere aren’t they: all over Twitter and Mums-net and Change.org like a dose of thrush, brandishing like badges of honour the supposed rape threats and death threats from the men they’ve so assiduously goaded. Why should the world of gaming be immune?

‘Because we just should,’ has been the response of the gaming community. They’ve simply looked at what’s happened to the rest of the world — the creeping politicisation of absolutely everything by the cultural Marxists — and decided they want their cloistered play realm to remain sacrosanct. ‘They don’t want their universe invaded by social justice warriors and they’re fighting back as only gamers know how,’ says Yiannopoulos.

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Show comments
  • RightSaidJames

    Anything written by Milo on this topic should be taken with a bucket of salt, and preferably some bleach to wash your eyes out afterwards. These accusations are pure invention, with no evidence (other than MS Paint diagrams) to support them.

  • Guest

    Anything written by Milo on this topic should be taken with a bucket of salt, and preferably some bleach to wash your eyes out afterwards. These accusations are pure invention, with no evidence (other than MS Paint diagrams) to support them.

    • Ased Zazx

      What the fuck are you talking about MSPaint you fucking retard. He just posted pure text.

      Go back to Kotaku .

      • Guest

        I’m saying that the original accusations have no evidence to support them. This piece is merely repeating the accusations.

        • Rankin

          Chat logs don’t count as an evidence now, huh.

        • Jack Troughton

          NVM screen grabs and chatlogs and archives. Oh my.

        • TheKKM

          What original accusations? Stop being vague, man.

    • TheKKM

      While not quite agreeing with the tone of this article, or Milo’s general articles, what accusations are you, pardon the redundancy, accusing of being a pure invention, if I may ask?

    • Eugene (Gene)

      Just because you “feel” the facts are lies doesn’t make them any less true. You are just bashing him for his political view which doesn’t even matter in this case. And the “paint diagrams” as you put it, are also based on the facts that we know so far.

      • This is actually part of how they are programmed. https://twitter.com/kikakos was interviewed on https://twitter.com/kingofpol ‘s hitbox podcast (I think it’s the third 9/22 video) and would constantly mention how he still continues to read kotaku and RPS because he ‘prefers subjective news to objective news.’ The cultlike conferences are all about reprogramming people to feel more tangible enjoyment from emotive ill-researched pulpit pieces. They’ve essentially adopted the practices of the pre-2000s American Right. It is quite literally “If it makes you feel good it must be right” instead of “if it’s been proven right, you should feel good.”

    • Magic Carpet

      List the accusations and we’ll see if they are baseless or not. Vague comments don’t help at all,

    • John Cobalt

      Your mom was taken with a bucket of salt and preferable some bleach to wash your eyes out with afterwards. Go back crying about people having different opinions then the hivemind on Shitaku thanks!

    • Elilla Shadowheart

      “I don’t like something that shows that there is collusion, attempts to steer the narrative, cast my view point in a negative light–so all of you shut up.”

      Or are you also going to say that the 9 original articles that were published all on the same day containing 35+% of the same content were pure invention?

  • Patrick Caniff

    Well said. It’s refreshing to see this is being covered by more and more people as time goes on.

  • Guest

    LOL. What a completely unresearched article. The fact you are still mentioning that someone slept their way to positive press – after it was debunked on day one – is ludicrous.

    Not to mention the fact that you have clearly turned this into some kind of political affair (which most gamergate people are against) by claiming it is some kind of feminist and left leaning plot. Literally a few seconds of research would have shown you that there are plenty of both types on each side of the debate.

    Again, this secret mailing list that yourself and Milo bang on about proved nothing. Most of the people on said list didn’t even participate in the discussion around gamergate, and a bunch of the writers who wrote the originally controversial articles aren’t on that list either. Again easily discoverable by doing ten seconds of research. Of those that did, none of them breached any ethics as there were plenty of dissenting voices (kind of the opposite of collusion) and rational discussion about not crossing boundaries. All of which can, again, easily be seen by looking at the logs.

    I also find your talk of collusion interesting. Seeing as you are clearly a Breitbart editor, and Breitbart is where Milo himself works and has been publishing his own articles. It would almost seem like the two of you COLLUDED to write pieces with matching arguments. The fact that Milo is crowing over twitter about a major news outlet supporting him, while ignoring the fact it is merely a columnist for that outlet (and a columnist he works with, knows and has discussed this topic with), is embarrassing.

    But hey I guess it’s ok for you guys to collude to write articles that push one point of view, as long as no one else is doing it. This is hilariously inept, but I’m glad it happened as it just shows the hypocrisy that some gamergate people are prepared to accept.

    • benjamin hardy

      so the 2 articles Grayson posted putting DQ in a positive light are not positive press?

      maybe you should do some research

      • Guest

        So an article that listed her game (along with a few words saying it was an indie darling) alongside 50+ other games, and another that talked about the breakdown of a gamejam that she was at count as positive press?

        The second one had quotes and info from a bunch of people that were at the event and focussed more on the negative activities of the PR involved than any of the contributors. Whereas the first one isn’t even worth mentioning considering the boyfriend who started all of this said that Grayson and ZQ weren’t even together at the time it was published. As seen here: http://geekparty.com/eron-gjoni-clarifies-the-zoe-quinn-nathan-grayson-timeline/

        Now maybe go do your research.

        • benjamin hardy

          putting DQ in the most favorable spot on the list is positive press and in one article DQ is given the image space

          now if YOU do some research you will find that there is conflicting points on when the grayson relationship began but even if the romantic relation ship began just after there couldof already been a personal connection at the time.

          • Guest

            He listed three games at the top of the article. One of which was DQ, which proves nothing in itself. Likewise the other article had a bunch of images, one of them was her (no dispute there) but seeing as the content of the article was about the events of that gamejam and not focussed specifically on individuals then how is that benefitting her directly?

            Plus, if you are saying that I should ignore the opinion of the guy that initially broke the news about the infidelities – and take the word of some internet sleuths instead, well that seems bizarre.

            These are tenuous links at best – I mean if you could show me something, after they were going out, that was clearly 100% positive coverage designed to sell her game then fine. But two articles (one of which is just a mention) is not really damning evidence.

          • FergalR

            Was he shafting the devs of the other two as well?

          • Guest

            Well if he was, then you’d have obvious evidence. Wouldn’t dispute that.

          • rocinante2

            all this colusion [sic] is evidence enough to point out the gaming press is corupt [sic] and is working together (proven by the media pro leaked emails) and their handling of the situation.

            So at the end of the day. Even if zoe wouldnt of [sic] slept with any one, the recent events and the constant refusal of the jurnalists [sic] to adress [sic] the issue + the ridiculous ammount [sic] of censorship and the down right insult of their readers, has caused the consumers to form a grass root movemnt [sic] and to boycott these sites.

            Looking forward to your take on those points.

            Also, Quinn admitted her to infidelity to her former boyfriend. Even if the sleeping around didn’t get her game favorable coverage, it still (1) is reprehensible in any human being, much more so in one that wants to be believed/taken seriously by others, and enjoy their creative and financial support, and (2) doesn’t look good for the journalists, who really shouldn’t be sleeping with people they cover. (Lack of integrity? Conflict of interest? Nothing to see here, people; move along!)

            Plus, the wagon-circling and reflexive defending of Quinn doesn’t buy any additional credibility for the gaming press. In fact, it looks (from the outside) like a lot of doubling-down.

            Given that Quinn was one of the two sparks that lit this fire, and that the game in question was called Depression Quest, I’m surprised at how little mental illness has figured into this discussion.

            Based on my own extensive experience (personal and professional) of the mentally ill, Quinn’s words and actions (as well as those of her defenders) strike me as those of someone suffering from one of the personality disorders and her enablers, as opposed to someone suffering from depression and her support network.

          • Guest

            Just for clarity, and I’ve discussed this with others too, I fully agree that cheating on someone (with five people no less) is shocking behaviour. I have fallen out with formerly close friends over such things and it’s not something I’d put up with.

            But GG isn’t really about her behaviour in that sense, and I don’t think pro-GG even want it to be. It’s about the supposed corruption and favours her actions got her – and the evidence of that is debatable at best.

            Will her actions lead to her being judged differently in future? No doubt. But I’m not sure that they prove she got positive press. Same for the journos, it shows bad judgement for sure, but if they didn’t actively write about her game while they were dating then I don’t see it being a problem. Now if they were dating and had to do so, then they should recuse themselves or put in a disclaimer. Simple as that.

            I’ve worked with mentally ill people before, and it’s a tricky area to cover in this topic, as their behaviour can cover such a broad spectrum depending on how your illness manifests. I would argue that I don’t think people are just trying to enable ZQ here, or at least not intentionally, but unless I studied her actions in much more detail to se what she does/doesn’t react too and respond with (in terms of depression and behaviour) then I wouldn’t want to judge.
            In terms of the other points I did a lengthy answer above, so hope that is ok.

          • The only reason Zoe even comes up so much is she keeps throwing herself in the limelight. Very much the clinical, not dictionary, definition of Narcissist. But when she does come back up, it’s a shame nobody puts in their articles that she’s the abuser in the relationship, not him.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_UKErD0uGQ

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

          • Sleazy Boat on the Bayou

            “The only reason Zoe even comes up so much is she keeps throwing herself in the limelight. ”

            Well no, that’s not the `”only” reason, is it? People keep talking about her, too – like Delingpole in the article above.

          • Codrin Stavri

            The article was not debunked. We are aware of the debunking and we think the debunking is BS.

            Also while she did not get positive coveredge, if you go on steam you would notice that she has favorable reviews for her game from sites like Kotaku RPS gamasutra etc.

            Also to point out that while you are screaming biass. You are ignoring the anita sarkeesian death threat she provided.

            No where on that threat can we draw the conclusion that the person who forced her to leave her home was a male, gamer, or even if the threat was actually real (only evidence is her word) . It is also impossible to determine the reason she was allegedly (a word never mentioned in any of the articles) threatened. At no point can we conclude the person threatening was displeased with the fact that she was a game critic.
            None of the “media outlerts” including BBC or Times have bothered to fact check by calling the police (I know atm its said the FBI is investigating, but the fact remains no jurnalist before Milo tried to fact check their souce”

            all this colusion is evidence enough to point out the gaming press is corupt and is working together (proven by the media pro leaked emails) and their handling of the situation.

            So at the end of the day. Even if zoe wouldnt of slept with any one, the recent events and the constant refusal of the jurnalists to adress the issue + the ridiculous ammount of censorship and the down right insult of their readers, has caused the consumers to form a grass root movemnt and to boycott these sites.

          • Guest

            So you think you evidence from her ex-boyfriend, who started all of this, is BS? He is the one that said they weren’t together at the time – and he was pretty fastidious in keeping all the evidence of her wrongdoing, so I’d say he was fairly credible.

            Likewise the reviews again prove nothing. A lot of games have favourable reviews – but there is not much evidence of people sleeping with every male developer and so on. A good review might just be indicative of a good game. (P.S I know some people don’t enjoy DQ, some do, not every game is for everyone – I hate racing games but understand there can be good racing games nonetheless).

            Where does Sarkeesian come into this? I never even mentioned her. But if you are questioning whether the threat was real then look no further than your boy Milo again – as he looked into it and the police confirmed that a report was filed and that it was escalated to the FBI as it was not the first time she had been threatened. So there is your evidence that the threat existed I guess. You could level the same accusation at all the pro-GG people who claim they have been hacked, doxxed and threatened – at the end of the day you have to trust people not to make that stuff up. So when that stuff does happen it’s a terrible thing and people should be offered support rather than doubt.

            As for whether or not any other media outlets called the police before Milo – how do you know they didn’t, if they called and got confirmation then it wouldn’t be in the article. In any form of journalism people don’t constantly state they have fact checked every source (though it is implicit that they should of course) and I’d hope it is assumed all journos would fact check first without them having to specifically mention who they called each and every time. You saying that no one fact checked as a fact is unlikely to be true (though I don’t rule it out), though it is worth mentioning that no media outlet has to review their sources anyway – as they can protect anonymous sources if need be.

            Similarly I’m not sure how the mere mention of Anita, or her getting threatened, is evidence of bias? Her Kickstarter and the backlash generated so much interest that, as you say, it was even mainstream news, so it was inevitable that a bunch of sites would report it. Who are they being biased against by reporting on a death threat for someone making a controversial video?

            I would also argue it wasn’t impossible to guess why she was threatened. As she hadn’t been threatened at all until she started doing the Tropes vs Videogames series (and got publicity for such) and then got threatened after. So it was clearly someone that didn’t like the idea that she was “going after” games (when she wasn’t really, just giving them a critique). Now I will agree we don’t know who threatened her – it could have been anyone – but as it’s in the hands of the authorities then it is their job to find out. I mean it wouldn’t shock me if it was someone that played games, as there are millions of people that do so that would prove nothing. The problem is that if it turns out to be a GG supporter, then what?

            You say “all of this collusion is evidence that the press are corrupt and working together ” (I paraphrased a bit here) but again I’d ask all of what evidence? The email group showed some people making inappropriate suggestions, that much is true, but it also showed people disagreeing with them and putting them in their place. The email group also doesn’t show any firm agreement on a course of action, or show any firm details of those people in the discussion pushing a specific set of articles or agendas.

            They are sharing their opinions yes, and you may well disagree with some of them (as do I, as frankly the suggestion of buying a gift for someone in the public eye was ludicrous) but they are free to offer their opinion – as the other members were free to disagree. So the evidence of collusion isn’t really there, in fact I’d say the email logs proved that the group had a wide range of opinions that were just as likely to agree as they were to disagree.

            Now onto their handling of this situation then I do agree that it could have been much better. No question. But let me first start by saying a couple of things.

            1) Most of those “gamers are dead” articles weren’t actually that bad. They merely said that gamers were now a broad spectrum of people (all ages, races, genders) then the previously thought of young/white/male demographic that marketers had aimed at. Most of them stated that the old guard of gamers that still thought girls didn’t belong in games, shouted abuse at other players and generally behaved poorly where now becoming the minority due to that change in diversity. That’s it. So if you aren’t an angry/abusive gamer I don’t know why you’d take offense at most of those articles. I didn’t and I’ve played games for 20+ years.

            Would I have written them myself? Hell no. Especially not with the provocative headlines they had (which were obviously clickbait) but I think the problem, which they obviously didn’t foresee, is that a lot of people didn’t even read the articles. They just saw the headlines denouncing them and their hobby as dead, took it at face value, and got mad. This is the problem with clickbait headlines.

            2) You talk about ridiculous amounts of censorship, but don’t forget that pretty much every gaming site is privately owned. So they can choose to post whatever they like on their site and forums. If they feel that threads on GG are going to lead to a lot of flaming and harassment then it may be in their interests to shut it down. I’ve moderated forums before and certain topics can spin out of control faster than they can be moderated. Especially when they get heated. Some sites won’t even allow topics on religion or politics as a matter or course – not because they want to censor folks, but because those topics cause people to loose a cool head and devolve into slanging.

            Now onto the handling of this. I do think that if every site had put up a post saying “here is what happened with ZQ and here is why we agree/disagree/won’t be posting” then this might have gone away faster. I say might because RPS did exactly that, and have posted a couple of times, yet still get slated. I say might because Polygon do have an ethics policy in place already, and did before this happened, and yet are still getting called out. So it’s hard to say that it could have gone the other way – people may still have been upset.

            I’m not advocating some of the name calling and responses that have come from journos by the way, nor from pro-GG people, but I also know that they get abuse almost daily. Literally every review is seen as corrupt (long before GG) and every article bought, even with zero evidence. So when this big thing kicked off and they started to get abuse by the hour and by the minute, I’ve no surprise that they lost their cool – if that happens then I would hope they would apologise (and I’ve no doubt some didn’t) I’m not saying the crap they receive excuses their responses but this is probably why you see so many people being completely quiet and so few articles. As if they did post what they thought it would lead to more abuse, or lead to them being abusive too, which doesn’t help anyone. I’m not saying the crap they receive excuses their responses but it

            Anyway, I hope I’ve cleared up some stuff and how I think. If you still disagree – no problem – I’m just trying to answer what I can. So hopefully you can at least appreciate the effort. Cheers.

          • Guest

            It’s already been shown that Grayson and Quinn’s relationship began after the gamejam article. So no collusion based on their relationship is present.

    • Adam Weisgaupt

      Please provide the evidence of “someone slept their way to positive press – after it was debunked on day one “.

    • MarkyX

      Wait, collusion? Have you seen the leaked emails from the Game Journalist mailing list?

      • Guest

        I read them all, yes. I also saw that Milo happily cherry picked ones to splash on his front page, without posting up the follow ups where plenty of people disagreed.
        hey

        Now some people did share the same feeling about the issues in that group – that much is obvious, and that would happen whenever you had 150 people talking about stuff. Some would agree/disagree. The thing is that there is no evidence of direct collusion in what was posted. I.E. No one in there said “hey we should all do X” and then it magically happened. As I said before, most of the people that did the “gamers are dead” articles aren’t even in the group, so how did they possible collude (via that group anyway)?

        I’m not going to argue that people in that room made suggestions and statements that crossed certain boundaries, as they did, but the important thing is that other people talked sense into them, disagreed with them and nothing came of it. Which shows that the group was actually helpful, in a way, to stop people getting too self righteous and making ethical breaches.

        • John Cobalt

          It doesn’t matter if some didn’t share the sentiment, that just makes those guys good guys. As for e.g. BK who was pressuring other outlets to follow his lines of thoughts, that is way beyond the limits of integrity.

          Just because there is good guys doesn’t mean that there can’t be bad guys.

          It has already been revealed that there is many groups, this is just one.

          • Guest

            Him sharing his opinion is neither here nor there. He was disagreeing with other people about them opening up GG for discussion – and certain sites did so anyway. Not sure how that proves collusion.

            I don’t disagree that he should tone down his opinions rather than browbeat people. But in a private forum, where people know one another, they all acted naturally and blew off steam. Again not showing that he forced anyone else do do anything specifically – so saying it is outright evidence of collusion is debatable.

          • John Cobalt

            He was shaming them for not deleting threads.

          • Guest

            Well he said that he disagreed with their opinion (and gave reasons) so I wouldn’t say he forced them to do anything. I agree that it’s not his place to do that but the site in question (Escapist) kept the threads up anyway and there is no evidence that he succeeded in making any other site close down discussion. Some sites did it themselves without any prodding, and other people said they would rather be open.

            So it’s one thing to disagree with BK for his opinion, and on closing down topics I certainly do, but it’s another to say that him offering that opinion is obvious collusion.

    • FergalR

      This tosspot again with the randomly capitalized words, wild accusations and zero insight.

      • benjamin hardy

        shill invasion?

        • Guest

          Again, I’ve been polite and answered any question I’ve been asked. Whereas any responses have just accused me, insulted me or ignored what I’ve said.

          GG people like to say they want to talk about this, but when someone actually engages them I just get shot down as a shill.
          I’ve seen everything that everyone here has, I’ve read articles from both sides, seen the videos and all the rest. I’d probably own the t-shirt by now. I still disagree with GG motives and tactics (especially articles like this that I don’t think are helping your cause by being overtly political). That’s my opinion and I’m not shilling or uninformed at all.

          • John Cobalt

            feel free to engage me on twitter, I ain’t hard to find.

      • Guest

        I don’t know you, but the only counterpoint you’ve made to anything I’ve said has been to try and insult and belittle me. I’ve made valid points and hey, I’m happy to discuss them, so if you have a genuine point to make then fire away. This articles clearly has a political bias, and is clearly the result of discussion between two Breitbart colleagues (which in terms of games writers GG is staunchly against) so how is there zero insight?

        • FergalR

          You have not made any valid points. As usual.
          This article only seems like it has a political bias to you because it is talking about the invasion of a hobby by lunatic fringe Marxists of your ilk. Any unbiased person who knew the antics of your type would find them equally laughable.
          It would be pretty amazing if Delingpole wasn’t in communication with Yiannopoulos since he’s his editor at another publication.
          The corrupt mailing list fair-minded people rail against had 150 people form many different publications. Along with PR representatives from the industry they were supposed to be dispassionately examining!
          Think before you type @disqus_jRNSZORLXY:disqus

          • Guest

            You state I’m a Marxist with zero proof – you could write these articles, ha ha!

            It has a political bias because it is obviously anti-feminism and anti-left wing, and it states as much in the article itself. Not to mention that numerous pro-GG people in these comments have mentioned it and have said it is an uncomfortable viewpoint of the events. That’s not my opinion or bias, that is the opinion of other pro-GG people so I don’t know why you seem to think I’m only reading this article a certain way because I’m some kind of radical. I’m really not.

            As I said before, this article was presented by Milo as “another” major outlet agreeing with GG, without a mention of the fact it was just one of his colleagues doing a column for another outlet. Much has been made of games journalists writing similar articles when they knew each other so how is this any different? Not saying there are as many people involved, but if one thing is an issue then both should be.

            Likewise I’m perfectly fair minded as are most GG people, which is why they don’t see that entire list of 150 people as corrupt, as the majority of them took no part in the GG discussion on that site, nor did they post any ant-GG articles, nor is there evidence that they are all corrupt. If being part of a chat group makes you corrupt then I guess they are guilty of that. Likewise the two PR people on that list were actually games journos when they initially joined, as has been pointed out to Milo by pro-GG people, and again they didn’t partake in these discussions nor is there any evidence of them posting in the group to push their games/agenda after they changed jobs.

            I’m all for pointing out corruption, but you saying that 150 people are corrupt (including the guy that gave it to Milo I assume?) is ludicrous, so how about you think before you type.

          • FergalR

            Another wall of text misrepresenting what other people say.
            Typical Marxist behaviour.

          • Guest

            Ha ha, you’re the best. You got me going I admit it – so kudos to you – but clearly you don’t actually want to chat so I’ll let you go rile up some others.

            I’ll be over here doing Marxist stuff I guess.

          • ndyBery

            I’m pro-gamergate and I’m telling you now that you’re the one being a jerk here. You’re just calling this person a Marxist for no reason and even if they were one, does that forfeit them the right to have an opinion?

            Name calling is not an argument and it is clear that they are more willing to have an open discussion about this than you are. It’s people like you who give GG a bad name.

            And yes, this article IS biased, not a single article pro or anti has been unbiased. Don’t delude yourself into thinking that just because something aligns with your own political beliefs that it is unbiased, that’s what the authors of the “gamers are dead” articles convinced themselves of.

    • Rankin

      While the political tone of both this and Breitbart’s articles are something most of #GG don’t really agree with, you’re way off course regarding the mailing list and cosidering your own tone it’s like pot calling kettle back.

      • Guest

        My tone may be OTT, so I apologise. But I keep seeing GG people saying they don’t want this to be political, and yet still avidly supporting poor articles like this which seem intent on making it entirely political. Blaming feminazis and left leaning people for all of the problems – seriously? That would be like saying all gamers were right wing nutjobs (which again I;ve seen GG people accuse the press of doing). It’s a very mixed group, whereas this article is very much heavily stacked in one direction.

        I’d also ask why no one is genuinely outraged over this blatant collusion between two Breitbart writers but up in arms about the mere suggestion amongst some gaming writers. It works both ways, so if you want clarity in the press then surely it needs to cover both the people you support and those you do not.

        • João Carlos Honório Pedro

          Did the detail that gaming writers belonged to different publications just casually slip by you? Two writers from one publication isn’t important, several writers from several publications is. Do you seriously not get it?

          • Guest

            In case you missed it, this link was posted by Milo as being “another outlet” supporting gamergate. It is not another outlet if it’s a buddy of his that writes for Breitbart whom he has clearly discussed this with. That was my point.
            And, again, there is zero evidence from those groups that a bunch of writers did collude to write or not write anything.

            There is evidence that some of them shared the same opinion and some of them didn’t. But as I said a bunch of the “gamers are dead” authors weren’t even in that group and those are the articles people are claiming collusion on. So how is that proven by those emails? Genuine question BTW.

            Now a few of them said they didn’t see much merit in a story about someones sexual life, and I have no problem with that, that’s not collusion it’s just a fact as the initial ZQ story had nothing to do with gaming (other than she happened to be a dev). The allegations of her corrupting press were, again, tenuous at best and RPS and Kotaku both made statements about them. So what else would other sites have to write about?

          • Sleazy Boat on the Bayou

            So it’s fine for two to collude, but not fine for three to collude?

          • Kain Yusanagi

            Actually, here we are made aware of the inherant bias of their relationships because it’s out in the open, and we can judge for ourselves if the veracity of the information contianed within such articles linked is flawed based upon that connection. That’s sorta what disclosure is, and why it’s so important.

          • Sleazy Boat on the Bayou

            In the article, Delingpole didn’t disclose a relationship with Yiannopoulos.

            On tweeting a link to Delingpole’s article, Yiannopoulos didn’t disclose a relationship with Delingpole.

          • Kain Yusanagi

            Ah, true enough on the article; I thought I saw mention of him being his editor already. Expecting it from the tweet, however, is foolish.

          • Etherlad .

            Dude, Delingpole WORKS for Breitbart as well as the spectator.

          • bitbit

            Breitbart and The Spectator are different publications. Do you know what site you’re on now?

    • John Cobalt

      http://geekparty.com/eron-gjoni-clarifies-the-zoe-quinn-nathan-grayson-timeline/ – There is your debunk you silly man. It was debunked because people misunderstood what the ZoePost said.

    • Well if you had the Reds battering down your door you would seek an alliance with even the Klan! This entire affair is the gaming version of Red Dawn. It’s a shame nobody has actually made a recent Red Dawn game for appropriate comparisons. I think, to be fair, we are using each other, as no one else seemed to want to touch the mailing list and IGF information, so this was the best possible option to get it out there before it got covered up.

  • Mageoftheyear

    You.
    I like you.

    • Dryermartinithanyours

      Me too. How refreshing to call all the Marxist Victorian school marms out. Just what, in the meantime, have we become?

  • benjamin hardy

    a different take focusing more on the radfem attacks on gaming, thanks

  • TheKKM

    Article feels frankly uncomfortable. Unneeded politicizing of events and the whole “hey go google my buddy milo’s article” thing… isn’t this very familiar? Just a bit more right-leaning than before?

    • John Cobalt

      Even if you’re right then having the entire gaming media being far-leftwing isn’t healthy either. This balances it out although it’s not perfect (assuming that you’re right).

      • TheKKM

        You don’t solve Ebola with more Ebola, though. Whole point is “we support journalistic standards”, but really think, replace the terms so this is supporting feminism instead and was written by Ben Kuchera. Still think it’s a respectable article?
        If so, good for you. Share, favourite, etc. Not for me.

        • Trigger

          Recommending that the reader check out an article that more thoroughly delves into the details is hardly the cancer we’re fighting against. It’s pretty obvious this one stuck to a bird’s-eye view.

          • TheKKM

            I get a bit itchier when the article happens to be from a fellow writer of the same site (that isn’t this). Plus, you know, the other stuff in the article- the lack of factual accuracy, inserting agendas, etc.
            Again, if you think any positive coverage is good coverage, good for you. Really not singing to my side.

  • Magic Carpet

    This is more politicized than it should be and isn’t completely factually accurate.

    But I support articles like this. The other camp is full of extremists and aggressive pieces like this one are necessary for some balance, Hopefully the SJW will get busy fighting these people while we go back to assassinating pixels.

    • TheBigDonkey

      I don’t necessarily agree that this tone is necessary for balance. When the only voices available are extremist in tone, people will simply retreat to their respective sides and there will be no opportunity for productive discourse (see US politics). We need to be reasonable and logical because the “other side” seems to be lacking those qualities on the whole.

      • Magic Carpet

        I agree with you, but it appears logic and reason alone doesn’t get you far if you’re not heard. Keep in mind this article is still more factually correct than everything that comes out of the other side.

        You can’t reason with extremists. That’s why they are labeled extremists.

        I’m all for reasonable and civilized discussion, but try to converse calmly with a bunch of people screaming in a room. Even you cannot hear yourself.

        You do realize GamerGate is still a cesspit of foul human beings. Why is that? Not true, of course, But a bunch of people scream it from the top of their lungs. We need some screamers on the other side too. Hopefully they take their fight elsewhere and leave our playground.

        • Kaine

          Indeed.
          Red Team: “Gaming is a swamp of reaction and that’s a bad thing!”
          Blue Team: “Gaming is a swamp of reaction and that’s a good thing!”

          Gamers: “Ooh, character creator! Now I can look good while I set thing on fire!”

          😉

    • Guest

      You can’t reason with extremists. That’s why they are labeled extremists.

      I’m all for reasonable and civilized discussion, but try to converse calmly with a bunch of people screaming in a room. Even you cannot hear yourself.

      You do realize GamerGate is still a cesspit of foul human beings. Why is that? Not true, of course, But a bunch of people scream it from the top of their lungs. We need some screamers on the other side too. Hopefully they take their fight elsewhere.

  • BeholdMyPower

    I don’t really agree with the tone of this article or the viewpoint that GG is actively opposing feminism, but I appreciate coverage of the issue from a different angle nevertheless.

  • Brit Bong

    It is nice to see this topic being covered by more outlets.

    That said, the five alleged journalists may have been four and another developer, also there are no reviews by the people implicated in that event, though she did receive very favorable coverage from the outlets those journalists wrote for, albeit from different writers.
    As an event though, it’s not so much her as the suppression of discussion that triggered GamerGate.
    Additionally, the majority of GamerGate has left that event behind as little more than the spark that lit the bonfire.

  • Codrin Stavri
  • bitbit

    “Some of them are quite insalubrious, especially the one about the female games designer who allegedly secured positive reviews for her product after sleeping with five different games journalists.”

    Uhhhhh, you don’t even understand the basic facts I guess. Only one of the alleged five guys she slept with was a game journalist, and he didn’t review her game.

    This is journailsm?

    • Guest

      Apparently you can say whatever you like as long as you put the word “allegedly” in there.

      • merri

        Apparently, you can discredit whatever you like as long as you use semantics.

        Whatever else you want to claim about the positive reviews, or why a fairly bad internet flash game got so much attention on core gaming media news outlets, is irrelevant. What is certain is that the game was promoted without disclosure that the promoter and the promotee had personal relationships.

        This has also been pointed out with several other articles, regarding close personal relationships and positive reviews/promotion, including works being promoted by roommates etc.

        There are also other verifiable facts: The game is being promoted for charity, and has a “pay what you want” system. Of course, that payment portal pointed directly to a personal paypal account. As far as charity goes, that leads to absolutely zero transparency, unless of course, the owner(s) of the account were to release certain financial specifics.

        So, while there are plenty of things you can attempt to discredit with the word “allegedly,” there are plenty of other things you can not. Another example would be the OTHER charitable business, being called a “Game Jam,” which points directly to a personal PayPal account, and does not have any information regarding what the “Game Jam” is actually going to do or does, dates, etc.- nothing; just a personal PayPal account.

        • bitbit

          I was making a point that this article says she slept with 5 journalists, iand they reviewed her game.

          Both of those are totally and absolutely wrong. Basic things wrong.

          You agree with that, right?

        • Guest

          I wasn’t trying to discredit anything, but the word allegedly is one that is used all too easily so that some journos can post untrue claims and get away with it. It bugs me to see it in any articles to be honest.

          In regards to DQ I hadn’t even seen it on a major gaming site before this whole thing kicked off, so I don’t think it got as much coverage as people imagine. Not to mention that your obvious dislike of the game probably clouds your judgement. I’ve not played it myself, but I have seen people with depression say it has helped them so it must have some merit even if it’s not for everyone (and no game ever is). Also, as per her ex, the promoter and promotee did not have personal relationships at the time said articles were written so I don’t know what to tell you.

          In regards to the other articles about people writing about friends/colleagues without disclosing then I totally agree that should have happened. No doubt.

          As for the charity payments and game jam I’ve not really got enough info to say either way. I will say that it was proven that she did pay the money to the charity in question (and showed a list of payment dates) so I’d say that as long as the money gets where it was meant to, then it’s fine. Transparency is great for sure, but not every charitable event or cause declares where every penny goes. Though it’s nice to see that, in this case at least, the charity did benefit.

          What I would say is that, after all this ruckus, if that money doesn’t go to a Game Jam then I’m sure the internet will hear about it.

          • merri

            “Not to mention that your obvious dislike of the game probably clouds your judgement.”

            I only played the game recently, and had come to these conclusions before playing it. It was particularly notable to me because I did see the game being promoted on Kotaku, and being talked about on Reddit quite a lot, and before the whole ZQ fiasco ever kicked off.

            It was the equivalent of many Newgrounds games that have existed since 2003 or earlier, and from the depression angle, nothing about it seemed very genuine.

            ” Also, as per her ex, the promoter and promotee did not have personal relationships at the time said articles were written so I don’t know what to tell you.”

            Yes, it was very vocalized that the romantic relationship started within a couple days after…

            “I will say that it was proven that she did pay the money to the charity in question (and showed a list of payment dates) so I’d say that as long as the money gets where it was meant to, then it’s fine.”

            Yeah, those proceeds were part of the DQ game, but the Game Jam she has setup point directly to her personal PayPal account. Two separate things.

    • merri

      He didn’t review the game… he promoted it. It matters little however, as that early scrutiny only served as the catalyst to all the other corruption dragged into the daylight.

      • bitbit

        So, you’re agreeing with me right? This article has basic facts wrong. There were no _5_ journalists, and the one she did have a thing with did not review her game. Yes?

        • Etherlad .

          Not only are facts wrong, he’s clearly pushing his agenda. Apparently that’s fine though for many.

    • TheBigDonkey

      Agreed that this is shoddy research. But not all that different from the pieces (including the NPR piece) that take some of the principals’ words as gospel when clearly there are biases and conflicts of interest that should have been considered, researched and reported.

  • Mark Samenfink

    Sorry we overloaded things, our thirst for not being called bigoted monsters is real.

  • jaz

    So this whole piece is little more than a puff for an article on a site that Delingpole edits and his buddy Yiannopolous wrote. This whole GamerGate is a teeny weeny storm in the world’s smallest teacup and is being used by various people to drive their own particular agendas. And that goes for all sides.

    • merri

      “And that goes for all sides.”

      Well, there’s a side, the gamers, that would rather not be classified as bigots simply for being actually inclusive and scrutinizing the provably corrupt, and unprofessional games media.

      • jaz

        You may well be right. What is clear is that Delingpole and Yiannopolous are exploiting this for their own particular ends. This story long ago left the world of gaming.

        • merri

          I agree, and I thought Yiannopolous was actually going to use the other side of the fence in the beginning. In any case though, I do appreciate Milo’s actual investigations. Everything else though, I agree, are just puff pieces.

        • Magic Carpet

          It’s obvious that neither is really concerned with gamers and gaming in general. Right-wingers have attacked gaming long before these new SJW idiots. The key difference is that gaming journalists were vocal against the conservatives but are happily standing with the new radicals and are eager to silence their critics and go so far as to publicly and relentlessly insult their audience for their new masters.

          This article isn’t really what I, as a proGG, want, but it doesn’t hurt to set some hounds after the SJWs to keep them busy.

  • flight2q

    “5 journalists” should be “5 people in a position to advance her career”. One was a journalist whose employer acknowledged the relationship in a prepared statement. The article does not mention that the gamer-initiated investigation uncovered financial and other undisclosed personal relationships far more extensive than any sexual relationships.

    • Trigger

      I second the call for factual accuracy.

  • Benji Dodds

    One thing: The Quinn deal wasn’t for positive reviews, it was for publicity, and an allegedly conflict of interest while being personally involved with one of the judges for the IndieCade awards, the same contest that she won an award for.

    • ohforheavensake

      Speaking of conflicts of interest: the Milo chappie that James wants you to read? James employs him over at the right-wing loonfest that is Breitbart. Conflict of interest?

      • merri

        The difference here is transparency.

        Most rational people know that industry ties and corroboration are necessary in the industry. A little transparency would serve well in squelching cries of collusion and corruption.

  • Bravo, an excellent article. Thank you for helping set the record straight. I am a black woman, and a gamer, and I am tired of being stereotyped and maligned. I am certainly not their shield to hide behind.

  • ohforheavensake

    Oh, James: don’t know if you’ve looked at the New Statesman recently, but you’ve been caught.

    http://www.newstatesman.com/media-mole/2014/09/james-delingpole-condemns-james-delingpole-condemning-gtavs-violent-gameplay

    – and here’s the text…

    As befits a man who has authored a book called 365 Ways To Drive A Liberal Crazy – opening gag: “Why was Obama so disappointed when he went to a screening of The Men Who Stare at Goats? Being a Muslim, he thought there would be more romance” – it was only a matter of time before James Delingpole saw fit to wade into GamerGate.

    For those who haven’t heard of this (and this Mole envies you), GamerGate is an astroturfed outrage which claims to be about corruption in video games journalism, but which actually is a bunch of players railing against imaginary “social justice warriors” polluting their pastime with ideologies like “feminism”. (One female games developer at the centre of it has had a particularly awful time.) A common accusation is that there is a conspiracy within the games media, as journalists “push” their socialist agenda on gamers without their consent. It’s part McCarthyism, part-Tea Party, and perfect for Delingpole’s tried-and-true tactic of opportunistically stoking a fire beneath furious right-wingers while winding up lefties at the same time.

    So, here he goes, in the Spectator:

    He goes on:

    “And yes, maybe games like GTAV are all those things, but it doesn’t seem to do them much harm at the box office. Au contraire: on its release last year GTAV became the most successful entertainment product in history, earning $1 billion within its first three days of release. No doubt the superb gameplay was a draw. As were the groovy soundtrack and state-of-the-art graphics. But the clincher, I suspect, for a lot of its young male fans, was the sheer joyous escapism into a universe where you can still act out your most politically incorrect fantasies without some professional victimhood group like 350.org or Everyday Sexism demanding you be carted off in the Outrage Bus for compulsory re-education.”

    Yeah! Up yours, feminazis!

    No point getting wound up about this stuff, like one reviewer did for the Daily Mail when the game was released last year:

    “What troubles me about Grand Theft Auto V — which has an 18 rating that will be ignored by thousands of younger teenagers — is not just the message it sends out to youngsters (drugs are cool; crime pays; violence is fun), but what it says about the coarsening, the decadence and the hopelessness of our modern culture.

    It’s the electronic equivalent of those gladiatorial contests the Romans used to stage in the dying days of their empire, involving ever more exotic beasts and ever more elaborate sets.

    It may be entertaining, particularly to young men with a penchant for such nihilistic spectacle, but the sensibility to which it appeals is warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair.

    The fact that this is the most popular computer game on the market should make us all shudder, and pray that the violence on the screen doesn’t bleed into Britain’s streets.”

    Damning, we’re sure you’ll agree. But such is the typical style of the author: James Delingpole.

    As a bonus round, try to tell which of these is the intro to his 2013 piece, and which is the intro to his 2014 piece:

    “The last – and only – time I had sex with a whore she was so impressed by my performance that she begged me to do it all over again. I thank the drugs. Before popping out in my stolen car for my rendezvous with my skanky ho, I had smoked a couple of fat blunts which I’d found ready prepared for me by my bitch next to my beer fridge and it put me in just the right mood.”

    Yesterday, in the process of robbing a bank, I beat up an elderly security guard before shooting dead perhaps 15 policemen, exulting in their murders with the flip dismissal: ‘Shouldn’t have been a cop.’ After that, I stole a succession of fast cars, evading my pursuers by driving on the wrong side of the road, mowing down passers-by and killing more police by ramming straight into them. Then I went home for a change of clothes, a nap, a beer and a joint before getting into my stolen vehicle to wreak more mayhem, pausing briefly to enjoy the services of a prostitute.”

    Of course, this isn’t even the worst thing about his Spectator piece – that would be the bit where he writes this:

    “As for the feminazis, they’re everywhere aren’t they: all over Twitter and Mums-net and Change.org like a dose of thrush, brandishing like badges of honour the supposed rape threats and death threats from the men they’ve so assiduously goaded.”

    Careful James. Looks like the game’s rubbing off on you.

    (It is also worth pointing out that Delingpole tells his readers to search for a number of – abysmal and hateful – pieces on GamerGate by a man he employs as a columnist at Breitbart, without disclosing their relationship. The irony is noted.)

    • Guest

      So he’s already slagged off GTA, and decried its state as the most popular game, yet here he is trying to use it as a rallying cry against feminism. Why am I not surprised.

      The fact he got caught doing it is even less surprising, though if you could bold the bits that are by the New Statesmen and those that are from this piece and Delingpole’s earlier piece it may be helpful – as it is a tad confusing at them moment. Or I could click on the link and not be lazy, ha ha!

      Between the hypocrisy of this guy and Milo they have got all the bad press angles covered I suppose. I wish the pro-GG people had spokespeople that didn’t try to push their own agenda over the top of everything.

      • ohforheavensake

        I’ll give it a go.

        – Sorry, not having much luck: have to click the link, I’m afraid.

        • Guest

          Ha ha, no biggie I clicked on the link. Maybe just put speech marks around anything that good old James said (in both pieces). It boggles my mind that he would shame this game one minute than try and use it to make his point that next – it’s an “I’m one of you” style of journalism.

          • ohforheavensake

            Done.

          • David Glen

            At last rumbled

            “the fact that this is the
            most popular computer game on the market should make us all shudder, and
            pray that the violence on the screen doesn’t bleed into Britain’s
            streets.”

            From the Mail.
            This and the, “but I’m with you cool gamers” has gone on long enough.

            How’s your Destiny fire team doing then J.D?

      • merri

        ” Or I could click on the link and not be lazy, ha ha!Between the hypocrisy of this guy and Milo they have got all the bad press angles covered I suppose. I wish the pro-GG people had spokespeople that didn’t try to push their own agenda over the top of everything.”

        You could literally swap every name and sentiment to match, exactly, the anti-GG ongoings.

        • Guest

          So you’re saying that anti-GG people slagged off a game, and the people that play it, and then (when they thought they could get some cheap hits) changed their mind a year later? I keep seeing GG people say that games journos should have relevant qualifications, should do proper research, should keep political/emotional things out of their work etc and yet those rules, mystifyingly, don’t apply to anyone that is pro-GG.

          Well I’m sure you have a host of screencapped examples to share with me so fire away.

      • I think we corrupted Milo in a positive fashion, but this guy is a bit long in the tooth. If you listen to his interview with milo he brings up Ecco the dolphin out of nowhere. Meaning he actually knows about the subject. It’s his slagging on GTA that is crowd-pandering. IOW Milo’s opinion is changing, but this guy is obviously just leaning whichever way the wind blows. Conservatives used to be anti-game thx to Thompson and the overall agnosticism of game dev society, but now they’re realising they can completely knock feminism out of a field with concerted effort. Any ally is a good ally at this point, especially if we know ahead of time they might turn on us, then we’ll be ready!

  • Sleazy Boat on the Bayou

    Is it libel if you don’t name a person you defame in print?

    • Kain Yusanagi

      Not as far as I’m aware, since you aren’t identifying them and thus aren’t directly slandering them… it’s still a dirty move.

      • Sleazy Boat on the Bayou

        I think if they are identifiable or recognisable it could be libel despite the absence of a name. Although peppering the sentence with allegedly and getting the facts completely wrong may mitigate the risk.

  • Rand Swanson

    Cultural Marxism. If the left can’t control you they will vilify you. And since they were exposed, prepare for the vilification.

    • Mboyle1888

      tinfoil hat much?

  • Kyle W

    This isn’t about just being able to play naughty games. This is a defense we’ve raised against a games media that has adopted an extremely toxic Ideology, aiming to bring down the industry as we know it.

    This is a response I posted on a destructoid article to a commenter who dismissed any evidence of wrongdoing on the media’s part. When I put it up, it was deleted in less than 10 minutes. When I put it up again, it was deleted in 5. So keep in mind the harsh tone of it wouldn’t be directed at you, but the person who was very Anti-GG-

    ‘conspiracy’. There *isn’t* one you say? Huh. Well then you should talk to these people-

    “”So yeah. Over on The Twitters we (as in yours truly, +Ian Miles Cheong, +Brendan Keogh, +Rowan Kaiser, +Mattie Brice and +Annie Dennisdóttir Wright) started discussing our various attempts to undermine the heteronormative hegemony. And now we continue it where we don’t have wordcaps.”

    This is from a group of Academics in Gaming at a DiGRA conference this year. Some worthy internet detectives were able to grab most of the documents before they were deleted.

    http://pastebin.com/LAmZNVKn (there’s their analysis)

    Now. Notice what they say. What’s that one particular word? It describes a certain kind of action, a… way of going about things. OH YES!

    “undermine”

    Not, ‘reason with’. Not, ‘engage in calm, civil dialogue’. Undermine.

    Oh, but that’s just an offhand comment! You can’t take that and turn it into a CONSPIRACY! O.o Oh, no, that just won’t do!
    Well how about this one-

    “Adrienne: Why do we see such tension between academics and game designers? less of an issue with indies, but there are always some people in industry that have similar questions until industrial logic takes over later and how can we better intervene in industrial logics to disturb that process. How can academics bridge the gap to the industry audience to help them do different work? How can we disrupt the capitalist norms that facilitate this?”

    Now, this is in Academicese, which sometimes follows the law of- “If you want to do something Evil, hide it in something BORING.”

    But let’s look at that last line- “How can we disrupt the capitalist norms that facilitate this?” Translation- They want to find ways to change the gaming business from capitalist, to a more socialist/marxist model. And that word ‘disrupt’ in this context that’s a pretty aggressive word.

    Oh wait, there’s more!

    “Aaron: Peer review and publishing models. The corruption of the peer review system is problematic. The reliance of peer review to get tenure and a job impacts us and slows us down.”

    *This* is Extremely important. Here they admit that corrupting Peer Review is something they want to do. Get that? They want to CORRUPT PEER REVIEW. Sadly for them, it’s ‘problematic’, but don’t worry, they are working like good little ethical people to find ways…

    Here’s an entire conference- http://pastebin.com/X46rkJJu
    If you can translate the obfuscating language, it’s chilling.

    Okay, I’m almost done. Let’s look at some practical application of all this academic work they’ve done, shall we? I mean, that stuff is *hard* and we’ve been working so long! Let’s get out there, *put* this study into practice and see how it works!

    So, Zoya Street, one of the people at that conference did exactly that-

    https://archive.today/fHNhn

    And we end up with a Hit-Piece on Totalbiscuit!

    Now, why Totalbiscuit do you ask? Well I’ll tell you, because he made a calm, reasoned request for rational dialogue!

    https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/this-game-supports-more-than-two-players-jazz-edition

    The Developer Paul Hubens tried as well, and got a nice dose of FU from the SJW’s. And what about Boogie2988? One of the Sweetest, most loveable, wonderfully dorky internet guys out there?

    He tried to do the same thing as Totalbiscuit, but went even *farther*, he made a Change.org group-

    https://www.change.org/p/the-gaming-industry-please-stop-the-hate

    However, there was just ONE teeny-weeny problem. Just ONE little thing that he had to do, before he would be accepted back by The Gaming Morality Force. They made it clear-

    http://boogie2988.tumblr.com/post/97472605118/about-that-big-internet-drama-involving-gamers

    He had to remove his association with #Gamergate and #notyourshield. That’s it. That’s all and these people would be his ‘friends’ again. You can deny it all you want, but this sweet guy, who only wanted people to get along & enjoy gaming? He. Is. Scared.

    And that infuriates me. Because for nearly a month, thousands and thousands of ordinary people have worked so hard to uncover the lies of a few, who have smeared an ENTIRE ENTHUSIAST CULTURE. REPEATEDLY. To *hide* their OWN wrongdoing.

    But let’s let a man who has far more experience with the ‘Gaming Industry’ end this speech for us, shall we? A man with 20 years of experience in the field. Mr. Brad Wardell-

    http://www.littletinyfrogs.com/article/457741/GamerGatethe_free_ride_is_over

    Please tell me there is no conspiracy again. Please. Because this, is only the Freeware version.

    • Grand infodump there sir, grand effing infodump.

      • Kyle W

        My Apologies. You research this stuff for 6 hard weeks & you’re like, “O.o” “Really? This is how deep the Bunny Hole goes? Son of a Bitch! I just wanted to play my Videogames! Stop trying to mess with them!”

        At least, that was my response. 😛

        • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28D6_8KuIpc You should watch Sargon’s new video for more on the history of DiGRA. The next one after is going to be stuff we all have found out the past few weeks about how they connect to Silverstring and how Silverstring connects to GDC/Gawker/IGF, but the history of how DiGRA got coopted is pretty interesting. They flooded the upper echelons with avant garde artists who wouldn’t fight back and fellow feminists, in order to dominate the voting process.

          • Kyle W

            Yes, it reinforces what I wrote here over a week ago. I know many in The Escapist thread where I post most frequently don’t consider it a high-priority, but I do. The nice thing is, in #Gamergate, you don’t get branded a heretic because you focus on different things. 🙂

            Speaking of being a Heretic, Yesterday, someone tried to hack my Bank Account to the tune of $700. They didn’t get away with it & the account was locked, so that’s good. But this happened less than 12hrs after I bought a game via Humble Bundle. Since I’m a prolific poster at The Escapist & anti-GG lurkers are there constantly, I highly doubt that was a coincidence.

    • dodoking

      more fucking people need to see this. more up-votes people

      • Kyle W

        You mean you *liked* it? Wow. Like I said, this was ‘instadelete’ material at the gaming sites. 😀

        • dodoking

          exactly those that have supported #GamerGate for a while are aware of that information however we did get new supporters along the way

          • Kyle W

            Well, one thing that we’ve seen constantly coming up is people questioning how can the people who are Anti-GG do so many of the horrible things we’ve seen them do? That above post I made goes into some of it, but I’ve got one that goes into some of the background & history of this Rabid Ideology. Get ready for another Massive Infodump! 😀 –

            So, aside from the incident that brought #Gamergate into being, which has been discussed to distraction, indeed, ‘distraction’, what aside from that, made GG what it is? Well, as we all also know, it was the “Media Blackout”, followed by the “Media Explosion of Childish Tantruming.” After August 28th-ish we collectively went, Uhr? What just happened? Most of us did, right? Well, people have some very good explanations-

            Covering up their Corruption.

            Arrogantly assuming we would just roll over and take it.

            Even more arrogantly assuming we deserved it.

            Trying to get us to Shut Up.

            Letting us know our time was done.

            Etc.. etc… etcetera. You all know the drill. Pick a flavor or combination of flavors. However, any of these and more I didn’t list, all had a particular ideology behind them. It’s undeniable that this group- a, what? I’m talking about these SJ- Oh, right. We can’t DO that. We can’t label because that’s unfair to those who truly DO care about real Social Justice and don’t resort to being Manipulative, Lying, Bullying, Reputation Assassinating Cowards to get across their Agend- I mean, their ‘Narrative of what Social Justice is’. Perhaps surprisingly to some here, I get that. I agree with that. People who are not responsible for this fiasco should not be blamed.

            Okay so these-

            Ben Abraham Jenn Frank Akira Thompson Rami Ismail Ben Kuchera Brenden Keogh
            Anita Sarkeesian Anthony Burch Anna Anthropy Phillip Kollar Ian Miles Cheong Mattie Brice
            Kris Ligman Zoya Street Adrienne Shaw Leigh Alexander Alan Williamson Chelsae Van Valkenberg Samantha Allen Lucas Johnson Andrew Grant Wilson ceMelusine Maya Felix Kramer
            Devin Vibert Danniele Livengood Brian Clark Kayla Kinnunen J.C. Hutchins Melinda Johnston
            Jonathan McIntosh Zach Alexander Eric Swain Lindsey Joyce Mark Filipowich Cameron Kunzelman
            Lana Polansky Zolani Stewart Alex Lifschitz Samantha Allen Joe Köller Oscar Strik Michel McBride-Charpentier Michael Clarkson Erik Hanson Denis Farr David Carlton Katie Williams
            Maya Kramer aaaand clients of hers.

            -people, it’s undeniable that they have a- What? Now you want me to list all their industry connections and financial relationships with each other or else I’m just not being accurate? Seriously? Y’know, you know what you’re being, I know what you’re being, you know that I *know* what you’re being, so, go find a Bridge, M’Kay?

            Anyway, these people to one degree or another, have an Agenda. Agenda’s aren’t bad, per se, we all have them. But this Agenda is based on a particular Ideology, which we have also talked about from time to time. As a certain Feminist has said, it’s been extremely prominent in Academia for many decades now. Using the same openess, freedom, thoughtful and engaging conversation & ethical rigor, it is as pervasive as Radon Gas in many (most?) courses of study. Except perhaps things such as the Hard Sciences, Engineering & such.

            Now I’ve seen many people get extremely fussy over the term, ‘Cultural Marxism’, so we’ll refer to it by the cumbersome (Boy! All these nitpicks sure push our posts into TL;DR territory, don’t they!) title, ‘Marxsism applied to every aspect of Human Existence in addition to its original application in Economics’. Okay? Good enough?

            Now, we know the above people are trying to push MAtEAoHEiAtiOAiE into our beloved gaming hobby. This is not ‘tinfoil hat’ territory. This is now documented fact. If you still have trouble Listening and Believing that people do naughty things behind closed doors, then I respectfully ask you to leave, this post is not for you, because clearly no amount of evidence will convince you otherwise.

            So for everyone else, THIS is why many of us, myself included always ask that this Ideology not be seperated from the corrupt journalism angle. We are familiar with the ideology in one way or another. Whether from study, or actual experience (there are some I’ve seen who have lived under Communist/Socialist/Statist rule that post here.) we know how dangerous it can be and the kind of mindset & actions it engenders in people.

            This has not changed much in a long, long, long time. Much longer ago than the ME3 Ending debacle if you can believe it! It was even around before the original Nintendo! For our purposes however, we only need to go back oh… about 80 years. To a Lecture given by a man whom, though I have Serious Disagreements With, I still respect because I’m all about Inclusivity and Diversity. I’m Progressivey like that.

            That man, is Sigmund Freud, and in 1932 he gave a lecture entitled-

            “Lecture XXXV A Philosophy of Life”
            (Let’s say one thing about Freud, his reach may have exceeded his grasp many times, but he grasped more than most people even looked.)

            http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/at/freud.htm (EDIT- Link added)

            Anyway, though he deals with many things that are way beyond the scope of #Gamergate the lecture does contain a few paragraphs that are Extremely Relevant and if you have come this far, don’t know much about Marxism & think, “Why should I care what they Dig? Each to his own, Right?” Well, let’s see what followers of it, support. (Be aware, at this point in History, even Freud didn’t know the scope of atrocities that were & were yet to come by those following this Ideology)-

            “There is no doubt what the answer of Bolshevism to these criticisms will be. ‘Until men have changed their nature’, it will say, ‘one must employ the methods which are effective with them today. One cannot do without compulsion in their education or a ban upon thinking or the application of force, even the spilling of blood; and if one did not awake in them the illusions you speak of, one would not be able to bring them to submit to this compulsion.’ And it might politely ask us to say how else it could be done. At this point we should be defeated. I should know of no advice to give. I should admit that the conditions of this experiment would have restrained me, and people like me, from undertaking it; but we are not the only ones concerned. There are also men of action, unshakeable in their convictions, impervious to doubt, and insensitive to the sufferings of anyone who stands between them and their goal. It is owing to such men that the tremendous attempt to institute a new order of society of this kind is actually being carried out in Russia now. At a time when great nations are declaring that they expect to find their salvation solely from a steadfast adherence to Christian piety, the upheaval in Russia – in spite of all its distressing features – seems to bring a promise of a better future. Unfortunately, neither our own misgivings nor the fanatical belief of the other side give us any hint of how the experiment will turn out. The future will teach us. Perhaps it will show that the attempt has been made prematurely and that a fundamental alteration of the social order will have little hope of success until new discoveries are made that will increase our control over the forces of Nature, and so make easier the satisfaction of our needs. It may be that only then will it be possible for a new order of society to emerge which will not only banish the material want of the masses, but at the same time meet the cultural requirements of individual men. But even so we shall still have to struggle for an indefinite length of time with the difficulties which the intractable nature of man puts in the way of every kind of social community.”

            Now, personally I prefer early 20th Century Academese to Modern, it tries to Communicate instead of Obfuscate, but I bolded the part that is really germane to our topic. The rest is sad Irony somewhat related to our topic. And guess what they want to use our Hobby for? You guessed it! “TO CHANGE OUR NATURE”.

            Though obviously the (List Pile Above) have not physically engaged in bloodshed or the like, the conceptual thinking is the same. We’ve all seen it. Yes, there have been idiots & trolls & idiotic trolls & trolling idiots on BOTH sides. But many of us pro-GG’s have repeatedly and profusely apologized for that, while the (list pile above) doesn’t even acknowledge bad behavior against us exists. However, I’m not talking about the trolls, et al, I’m talking about the (list pile above), they (and others not listed with their connections to said & so on & so forth…) and this is important to take away-

            Actively engaged in behavior consistent with what Freud called out. They did not Assassinate, they engaged in Character Assasination, they did not draw blood, they drew tears, but the intent is the same. To destroy one’s Enemy, to crush them into the dirt until they cannot even cry for mercy. Is that not what came out of the gaming press and to a degree STILL comes out? Yep. Sure is.

            Now that we know this, please understand that because of the above, because that is the Ideology powering this attack on Gamers, THEY. WILL. NOT. STOP. They may retreat, they may ‘appease’. Likely some move to that degree is coming soon. But I beg your indulgence for a slight divergence-

            For those of who who haven’t, listen to Milo’s radio show.

            https://soundcloud.com/radio_nero/radioneroep1_1

            *Listen* to Based Mom. She’s being more of a ‘conspiracist’ than I ever was on the board. But you know what? SHE SHOULD KNOW. She’s been where few of us have. Can you imagine what it must have been like for her to be giving her lecture & have hissing, stomping & booing like an Inquisition-era event?

            So, listen to that and then add the power of media influence & you can see why I would say these people are *not* going to play nice. They are *not* going to go away. And sooner or later, they are going to get smarter & start throwing us ‘bones’. Little tidbits that will satisfy some & try to divide the movement. Things that may seem valuable, but will affect their powerbase as little as possible. Perhaps something like throwing Leigh Alexander under the bus. If they would whack a black man like Steve Tom Sawyer, they can certainly publicly sacrifice someone as obnoxious as Leigh has been.

            We know that who fired this all off can absolutely not be trusted. Have we seen a lick of evidence to indicate these others will not be or get as bad to ‘save’ everything they ‘deserve’? Nope. Mr. Kyle “I’m giving a Non-Apology because you Lesser Creatures Caught me and I’m going to need dental work because I’m Gnashing My Teeth so much that I had to Spew anger at Stupid GG on Twitter right after my public apology” Orland sure isn’t showing it.

            Essay/Off.

            P.S. For those who care, Freud has a paragraph about Postmodernism/Relativism right above the one I quoted. Also relevant to this discussion it is.

          • WaitingForJohnBrown

            Kyle, it’s okay to just say “marxism.” 🙂

            Forget about trying to speak in a way that’s acceptable to them. The only thing that’s acceptable to them is abject ideological submission. If you are not willing to submit to their rule, you can just be blunt, and save yourself a lot of typing. 🙂 The people who matter will understand you. But it’s lonely, because they own the culture.

            If you tell a marxist the sky is blue, they will disagree with you and begin to vilify you if they believe you are The Enemy. They don’t believe in the notion of objective truth. The color of the sky, or any other objective fact is fungible to them: they do not understand what honesty *is.*

            Modern liberalism is an emotional disorder, there is no negotiating with it, there is no possibility of communication with them. “Communication is only possible between equals.” — Robert Anton Wilson. They don’t believe that people who disagree with them are human beings. So there is no communication possible.

            Their intellect is subordinated to their emotions, which is backwards from how it works in a sane person. Their goal is the destruction of independent thought, and the imposition of collectivist thought. There is no “meeting them halfway” when that is their goal. So you will never find a way to phrase something that they consider heresy in a way they will tolerate.

            It’s just like Orwell said: what they want is the authority to tell you what 1 + 1 equals, and to change that answer to suit their purposes. If they achieve that, they have won.

            They will not win.

          • WaitingForJohnBrown

            ah sorry Kyle I wrote the above message halfway through reading your essay, where you were trying to qualify your position. I see from reading the rest that you already understand what I was trying to say.

            well written, thanks for sharing! ok gotta get back to work, have a great day! 🙂

          • Kirby Buxton

            the colour of the sky IS BLUE if your not colour blind
            what the fuck is a markisikist and i cant read them long words 🙁 what the fuck

    • WaitingForJohnBrown

      thanks Kyle W for compiling and sharing all that info. I hadn’t paid any attention to this gamergate stuff, but as soon as I saw you cite that “let’s institute thought control over the game industry through peer review!” stuff, I recognized the stench of marxism immediately. 🙂

    • Kirby Buxton

      hahaha 69 likes
      also can you use words that anyone can understand
      i am much confused dont no what the fuk you just writed

  • Jack Connell

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2424124/Grand-Theft-Auto-V-James-Delingpole-gives-verdict-latest-game.html

    I’m just gonna leave this here. Delingpole condemned the game as appealing only to those who are “warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair”, but a year later he realises how much traffic his old mate Milo is getting for GG and thinks, “Gotta get me some of that!”

    Make no mistake, folks, Yiannopoulos, Sommers and Delingpole don’t give a shit about you. They’ll sell you up the river in a heartbeat as soon as a massacre can be blamed on GTA. Look at what he Yiannopoulos said weeks before GG got rolling: http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-London/2014/08/14/Players-as-young-as-12-and-13-are-being-raped-by-dorky-weirdos-on-Grand-Theft-Auto

    • David Glen

      I guess he was having a dry spell after only being able to report from a Michael Mann climate science lecture that he once said something not nice about him sometime on social media somewhere….

  • dodoking

    you do know that we have feminists supporting #GamerGate right most people PEOPLE not just gamers don’t like the extremists

    • Sad part is they’re probably the last ones alive (like Sommers) who are calling themselves that accurately. They’re (actual feminists) conservative right-wingers to the little shits of this generation running around calling themselves that, and they’re thrown in with that group by everyone on the right because of the label they use. It’s simply been too ruined for such a small group to reclaim

      • Magic Carpet

        Most labels carry little meaning these days. Strippers wear crosses on their silicon-laden breasts and thank God when they have a bountiful night. Atheists renounce religions only to become cultists; Apple cultists, PETA cultists, Raelian cultists, and so on.

        Idiocy is like Pi, a constant.

        I’m a gamer though. 🙂

    • Etherlad .

      “I find male feminists beneath contempt” – James Delingpole 01.25.2014

      I’m making a wild guess here but i think female feminists are not in high regard to him either, so in his eyes you are scum.

      • dodoking

        I do not consider myself a feminist but we do have both male and female feminists.

  • dodoking

    just noticed this article is from the future. would have been nice to report stuff back provided u do don’t destroy the timeline.

    • Magic Carpet

      You’re right. °_°

      The writer has a time machine, but it travels two days back only.

  • Sean Grainger

    Playing yet again the ‘nothing new’ card a salesman from the company I worked for in the Eighties described her and her colleagues closing technique at her previous firm as getting the decision makers on a yacht and ‘f*****g them until they signed the contract’. And I’m sure your very own Peter Jones could offer some even more ancient examples.

  • Sean Grainger

    She went on to be head of a clearer’s finance operation — as you would expect.

  • Topgeartony

    The fact that you can do things in games you couldn’t possibly do elsewhere is what makes them magical. Who are they to say we can’t do things in games or we can’t have certain things. I mean why? It’s offends you. So fuck off if that’s the case.

    I’ve been playing games all my life and not once have we seen a threat on our hobby of this size. Unlike Jack Thompson, they quietly got in and are now trying to strangle it. I don’t fucking care how me or any other race or gender is portrayed in a game, I really don’t. As long as the game is good and I like it, then the rest is just dressing. But that isn’t enough for some. They weren’t getting enough attention or they were shunted out of all other industries for the parasites that they are and decided to go after one of the newest and most underdeveloped cultures in the world. But we gamers have risen up to to meet them at task and they hide behind bullshit and empty words. We have risen up where all others have cowered and let their hobby be co-opted and die.

    As a gamer, as a person always trying to right wrongs or save a kingdom, I cannot and will not allow this siege on my hobby. I became a gamer because I love games and the possibilities they may bring in the future, not because I want to force “my” idea of character and gender representation. That is up to us the gamers, the games makers and the consumers. Not a bunch of privileged assholes who have too much money and not much else to do.

    I constantly read about these so called gaming feminists complaining about women in games one day and then turn round to write how controllers are to complex for women (No really). I keep seeing people being wrongfully blocked from something they sunk their hard earned money into because the rouge in charge of their little community doesn’t agree with a stance they take, unrelated to the project and I see people who are just as guilty getting away with disgusting behaviour just because they are a different gender. Well we have had enough.

    We are gamergate and we are coming to tear down your ivory tower. I’m sorry SJW’s but you have officially run out of lifes.

    • Liz

      Men can. Women not so much.

      • Topgeartony

        It doesn’t matter in games. I don’t always want to be reminded of who I am in games. There are games where you play as dogs, robots and many more. I don’t care about gender in games I just care about the game. A game should be that first and foremost. If the developers are worrying about gender and who not to offend or what to portray something as more than the actual game, then they are doing it wrong.

        • Liz

          Of course it matters. Perspective always matters.

          • Topgeartony

            You don’t understand the point of games do you. The perspective is that of the characters and whatever the developers choose. Who am I to tell them how to do their damn job.

            Just like who am I to tell woman magazines or the fashion industry or a pilot. The perspective only matters if I’m willing to see it thar way and the only way for that to happen is for me to get a game like that.

            Think to yourself. If a game doesn’t sell well, what message does that send to the publisher? It’s why the maker is the way it is. Someone could capitalizes on it, but no one is. It’s how a free market works.

    • Mike

      All games are nothing more than escapism from the humdrum of life and I see nothing wrong with any of them whatever the content.

      Unless you’re some mental retard of a Jihadist it wont brainwash you to act out the fantasies of the game such as wanton killing or rape, only Islam does that.

    • Fluffy

      You’re literally praising a guy who hated on this very game a mere year ago, in the Mail. You don’t see how he’s using you to further his own agenda, just like his protegé Milo who also condemned GTA players a mere month ago for being child rapists?

      • Topgeartony

        Are these people not allowed to get into games and enjoy them? Can we not share our hobby?

  • Liz

    How does a female player have good fun? And give the finger to the PC brigade that produced this same old conventional male-ego-soothing script?

  • Liz

    How does one goad somebody into threatening threatening them with rape?

  • Scott

    Thanks for writing this article, it really helps us out when we’ve got press coverage that doesn’t include fawning to screeching misandrists.

    • ohforheavensake

      However, it flatly contradicts something he wrote for the Daily Mail a while back- and the only source he cites is a guy he employs (and he doesn’t make that clear in the article).

      So he’s probably just stirring. It’s what he does. It’s really rather sad.

  • Condorito Jones

    We’re not againts feminism. These are not feminists, they are extremists that have gotten people threatened, harrased, doxxed, insulted and gotten fired all from their ivory towers of social justice. We are not taking it down, and neither should you.

  • NikFromNYC

    #ClimateJusticeWarriors have now exposed themselves 400K strong as red banner #ClimateCommunists, with the same youthful media outlets attacking and slandering climate model skeptics as are now attacking gamers.

  • Augustus Pugin

    This article is hilarious, I don’t understand the hostility to it. It’s either shills or naive pro-GG people who have for some reason thus far lacked sufficient exposure to the high intensity counter-revolutionary radioactivity of Delingpole’s verbiage.

  • Etherlad .

    “brandishing like badges of honour the supposed rape threats and death threats from the men they’ve so assiduously goaded”

    Really? Did you really just say “they are asking for it”? REALLY?

    Well good look to the Gamergaters who try to shake off the accusiations of misogny with such a guy on your side.

  • Kaine

    Oh utter nonsense on both sides.

    The issue with ‘Gamergate’ and associates whitterings was not that gaming is a bastion of male fantasy to be defended from women like a treehouse with ‘no girlz allowed’ on the side.

    It is that contrary to the media stereotype women and girls have always been involved in gaming as both players and characters. You could happily save the world as a female protagonist in Mortal Combat, or lead your tribe to victory as a female shaman in Populous, even back in the nineties. One of the most anticipated games of this year, both critically and financially, will be Dragon Age: Inquisition, a game which not only allows you to decide the race and sex of your character, but which gives you a bunch of companions who are a master class in diversity. It does this because the player base demanded it.

    Indeed even Mr Delingpole’s own choice of character undermines his point. The fact you can play as an African-American protagonist (and you are in no way obliged to sleep with prostitutes or use drugs to complete the game) makes a change from the endless series of brown-haired, square-jawed, white American men who many adventure games see as the only character their fans will be able to relate to. Rockstar’s acknowledgement that it’s fans can deal with playing a black character is a measure of how grown up they are, not of some cultural atavism.

  • JBluen

    Anyone who doesn’t see the inherent fascism in secret journalist list-servs where messaging is discussed in order to achieve false consensus…well let’s just say you’re not going to enjoy where this is headed, but you probably won’t know it until it’s too late.

  • Thatch

    The Helm’s Deep analogy is a good one (though I might be biased in that regard). Really what most of these social justice issues boil down to is someone wanting something they haven’t earned. Women like the one at the center of this controversy want to be successful game developers without having to complete the step where they create games which people actually want to play. Instead they co-opt the media with a narrative about how hard it is for them because there is no market for sucky games and how unfair it is that people don’t buy games because the developers think the right thoughts or belong to the right group.

    About the only thing you can say about social justice is that if it were truly about justice it wouldn’t need the extra adjective. But justice is the last thing these people really want. They want to be elevated because of what they are or what they believe rather than what they can do, or what they can offer. Leftism ruins everything it touches because it is the creed of jealousy, lies and force where all solutions are compelled ones and all justice is of the social rather than the actual sort.

  • Des Demona

    Hang on? Isn’t this your review of the game in the Daily Mail?

    ”What troubles me about Grand Theft Auto V — which has an 18 rating that will be ignored by thousands of younger teenagers — is not just the message it sends out to youngsters (drugs are cool; crime pays; violence is fun), but what it says about the coarsening, the decadence and the hopelessness of our modern culture.

    It’s the electronic equivalent of those gladiatorial contests the Romans used to stage in the dying days of their empire, involving ever more exotic beasts and ever more elaborate sets.

    It may be entertaining, particularly to young men with a penchant for such nihilistic spectacle, but the sensibility to which it appeals is warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair.

    The fact that this is the most popular computer game on the market should make us all shudder, and pray that the violence on the screen doesn’t bleed into Britain’s streets.”
    Shurley shome mishtake?

    • Kevin T

      I’ve played GTA5 to completion and both things are true. It is hugely enjoyable, brilliantly put together and refreshingly politically incorrect. It is also, if you think about it for too long, morally repugnant to be playing the role of a criminal whose mission involves endlessly killing police and innocent bystanders, and being rewarded by the game for doing so.

      I agree the 2 pieces focus on the different sides of the game to such an extent that it does seem contradictory and a tad hypocritical but Delingpole wasn’t calling for the game to be banned, just commenting on its morals.

      • Des Demona

        Given he says this in the piece above –

        ”Or more specifically, to the stifling worthiness of our modern culture whose default position on innocent pleasures like this is to condemn them for their outrageous sexism, racism, misogyny and violence.”

        and this in the Daily Mail

        ”but the sensibility to which it appeals is warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair”.

        I think hypocrisy is an understatement.

    • WFB56

      Isn’t it partly the point that Delingpole is making that because it is soooo morally objectionable that that’s where the thrill comes from? Maybe if the PC brigades were a little less censorious, this extreme overreaction wouldn’t find an audience?
      I am not buying it for my 16 year old but I would still defend their right to make and sell it.

      • Des Demona

        I have no beef either way about the game itself. I’m not a gamer. Rampant hypocrisy does irritate me though. To go from

        ”It may be entertaining, particularly to young men with a penchant for such nihilistic spectacle, but the sensibility to which it appeals is warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair”
        to
        ”It’s an experience I can highly recommend, not just because you get to steal flash cars, deal drugs, drive the wrong way down one-way streets, change into any number of hoodies and cool sneakers, and shoot people — but also because as you’re doing it you’re sticking a defiant finger up to the Man. Or more specifically, to the stifling worthiness of our modern culture whose default position on innocent pleasures like this is to condemn them for their outrageous sexism, racism, misogyny and violence.”

        is above hypocrisy and heading for self-delusion.

      • Liz

        There’s nobody quite so invasive and censorious as professional hackers and misogynists mobbing women with rape and death threats because they want to express an opinion. They’re like Muslims going postal because somebody has criticised their religion.

  • ADW

    “life of a young black hoodlum”

    Why did you need to throw in that he was ‘black’?

    • jamesdelingpole

      Er, possibly because otherwise people might find it a bit puzzling my talking about “blunts” and “skanky hos”?

      • ADW

        But, as one of your comrades David Starkey pointed out, many “whites have become black” and started using all of that terminology.

      • ADW

        But didn’t David Starkey say “the whites have become black” and now use the same language?

  • Jon Stone

    It’s pretty much confirmed then: Gamergate and the murkier elements of the right-wing are in bed together.

    Or rather, right-wing journos are falling over themselves to get a new generation of reactionary extremists on their side now the gay-bashing old guard are slowly dying off.

  • Abrar Zahin Shahriar

    Thumbs up for writing this.

  • Penguin

    Adblock OFF!

  • Liz

    I love how Tory boy elites think it’s other people who police what people are allowed to think, say and do; rather than the people who’ve been in power for the last thousand years.

  • Liz

    “As for the feminazis, they’re everywhere aren’t they: all over Twitter and Mums-net and Change.org like a dose of thrush, brandishing like badges of honour the supposed rape threats and death threats from the men they’ve so assiduously goaded. ”

    Well I suppose it’s not a surprise that the son of a guy who sits in his bedsit and surfs the net for 15 hours a day looking for proof of global warming conspiracies would be retarded.

  • Liz

    I ‘spect Dellingpole doesn’t like censorious threats when they come from religious nutjobs trying to silence their critics. But he’s right behind the atheist kind.

  • Elizabeth

    I’m a feminist who has posted on Everyday Sexism, and I don’t care who plays GTA. Sorry to disappoint you.

  • Roger Hendrix

    Dellingpiles speciality is spouting offensive bullshit, then patting himself on the back for having made himself look like an utter tool. The Spectator clearly thinks his being “shocking” is controversial, but no, it is just some skinny pipsqueak being a twat. Kind of a literate Beavis and Butthead.

  • DanBarley

    I am man but I have a daughter and am capable of empathy – GTA may be what people want but it is still a sign of a hate-fueled perception of the world. Bring on the haters…

  • David Irvine

    you know that’s a screenshot of GTA 4, yes?

  • wudyermucuss

    Everyday Sexism:
    “Women only may submit an entry directly to the site”

    Er……….

  • Gina

    Bravo. This makes me want to shed a moist little tear.

  • SarahAB

    My teenage daughter enjoys playing this game with her friends. My (older) teenage son retreats to his room because he finds it too noisy.

  • Aaron M

    FUCK YEAH!!

  • Edward Walker

    Is this the same James Delingpole who criticised GTAV about this time last year? Is it really that easy to do a total 180?

    • Fluffy

      The very same.

  • Simon_in_London

    I’ll say this for gamers. They’ve got a lot of guts.

  • Sofya

    You’re disgusting.

    • Mike

      Its a fantasy, get over it.

      • Fluffy

        To quote the author himself, a mere year ago:

        “It normalises extreme violence and cruelty, so the longer you play, the more you not only become inured to it, but start to find yourself gripped — and even sickly amused — by the action unfolding before your eyes.

        As a middle-aged parent, I like to think I’m mature enough to be able to appreciate the game’s cartoonish, ugly, misogynistic, ultraviolent, pornographic worldview with a certain wry detachment.

        But whether the game’s teenage target market is so readily capable of making such distinctions, I’m not nearly so sure.

        What troubles me about Grand Theft Auto V — which has an 18 rating that will be ignored by thousands of younger teenagers — is not just the message it sends out to youngsters (drugs are cool; crime pays; violence is fun), but what it says about the coarsening, the decadence and the hopelessness of our modern culture.

        It’s the electronic equivalent of those gladiatorial contests the Romans used to stage in the dying days of their empire, involving ever more exotic beasts and ever more elaborate sets.

        It may be entertaining, particularly to young men with a penchant for such nihilistic spectacle, but the sensibility to which it appeals is warped, jaded and riddled with the deepest, blackest despair.

        The fact that this is the most popular computer game on the market should make us all shudder, and pray that the violence on the screen doesn’t bleed into Britain’s streets.”

  • disqus_zPSoqDXHz2

    Sorry to break it to you, but “feminism” just means supporting equal rights for men and women. It’s not that crazy of a concept, is it? Get a grip.

    • Mike

      Not for most if not all feminists when it comes to debating rape here.

      Their version of feminism is one where pretty much all men (unless they’re eunuchs) are rapists, no man should be given anonymity in rape allegations and having sex whilst partly inebriated is considered rape.

      Where’s the equal rights there ?

      • disqus_zPSoqDXHz2

        Being a feminist doesn’t mean you hate men. Most of my best friends are male and I have a wonderful father and brothers but I’m a feminist. No need to be so hateful.

        • Mike

          What does feminist really mean then ? We don’t have masculinists so why is there the word feminist ?

  • ajcb

    Was it an accident that the Spectator ran this piece adjacent to Mary Wakefield’s discussion of how savage boy soldiers are made? If you find the literally grotesque “fun” of gamers (does it need to stop at sex with infants, if, in fact, the virtual performance of that is also “fun” as it is indeed to some?) utterly repulsive, why does Delingpole insist you must you be shunted aside and ridiculed as a Marxist school-marm/feminazi (just out of interest, can you be a male feminazi?)?

    I support the liberal proposition that people must generally be free to do what they want and think what they want. Hell, that’s why I read the Spectator. But most sensible people realise this freedom ends when another is hurt. If, as Wakefield writes, and as the killers of Indonesia’s 1965 mayhem, or gangsters or mass-shooters worldwide will testify: violent stories, realistically told, put them in the mood for real violence, only someone with the mindset of a spoilt child would still think that marinading in imagery of feral “fun” is without social consequences.

  • Smithereens

    The thing about the left? It doesn’t need to lie.

  • Kirby Buxton

    hahahaha the picture is of gta 4 as well

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